The Path of Exile 2 Controversy

[@UpperEchelon]

Go To surfshark.com/echelon for 4 extra months of Surfshark at an unbeatable price

[@sergiohenrique2411]

you are so polite. just call them noobs . . :D

[@WarezCommentary]

@@sergiohenrique2411 As a veteran of POE, i can say that POE2 is pure trash, like all souls like games.

[@entertainingvideos1351]

Just looks like Vampire Survivors with fancy graphics. Don't see why everyone is going crazy for it.

[@bigbobrossa8524]

stop begging

[@Zemlja_je_ravna]

The core issue lies in how Path of Exile 2 demands more from its players in terms of skill and mental engagement. For those coming from other games or the previous version of PoE, this shift can feel like a jarring change. These players may have been used to a more straightforward or less mentally taxing experience, so when faced with the higher complexity and deeper strategies of PoE 2, it can feel frustrating. Streamers, who often have large followings based on their gaming expertise, are also facing a challenge. Many are finding the increased difficulty tough to adapt to, which can affect their content and reputation. They may not be used to a game requiring such a high skill ceiling, and this mismatch between expectations and reality can make the game feel inaccessible. The divide here is really about expectations vs. the challenge the game now offers. Some players are excited for the challenge, appreciating the need for more skill and strategy, while others resist it because it’s a departure from what they’re used to. This shift highlights the tension between accessibility and complexity, and why the game has sparked such strong reactions across different types of players.

[@budthecyborg4575]

I'm getting huge nostalgia vibes seeing a video about controversy in game mechanics, it feels like the last time any game was good enough to spark a debate around gameplay was nearly a decade ago.

[@DajJednego]

Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not

[@semikolondev]

that's because most "review" are focus on legs, nudity or boobs instead of gameplay. If people would stop supporting grifter on ytb/Stream we would have more of that

[@df71091]

I remember csgos awp changes

[@CM-iz5ny]

.... you mean a week ago right? This is a constant thing😂

[@SenkaZver]

​@@semikolondevwant to talk about scarlet blade gameplay? No boobs! Wukong? CHINA, EXTORTION Palworld? POKEMON BAD Dragon Age? WOKE Yeah you summed it up well lmao

[@Blacktarprophecies]

All I care about is getting a fucking bigger font size for console, lol

[@DeejayPozE]

Bro I play it on steam deck... Needs to have a font slider! 🤣

[@KimGelloLatonio]

AMEN brother

[@PherPhur]

Playing on a 21 inch be like "is this a display for ants?"

[@tonyfabiano3053]

​@@PherPhur needs to be at least 3 times bigger.

[@CORIOLANVS]

_grails_ fan? nice.

[@ifearnoone4476]

4:45 no sir, i play righteous fire, i do not press any buttons

[@NoOne-fe3gc]

My only issues with the game are the most I have with most games: QOL - Easier respec for build breaking updates - a fucking proper Auction House where you can instant buyout stuff, and better manage your auctions Credit where credit is due though, as a dad, being able to pause an "online" game is a fucking unicorn

[@thescarp2]

they will NEVER make an auction house. we've been yelling about one for 10+ years

[@Noxmare]

At least we got currency exchange and that's already heap tons of QoL

[@TankHunter678]

They wont do an auction house because they saw what happened in Diablo 3 with its auction house. The game becomes a money grind simulator where you buy all of your upgrades from other people's luck. Completely short circuiting the loot dropping gameplay loop. And they already did make it easier to respec, the issue with early access is that changes will come frequently. At release we will look at major changes coming once a league which will be several months in length and so your would have plenty of time to grind out gold for build tweaks or emergency changes.

[@Helmotz.]

@@thescarp2 why won't they do one exactly ?

[@toe3267]

There's already an auction house, just not for item, which I think would be impossible to implement in-game in a game with so much filter and modifier in PoE, and it can easily prevent duplication issue since it's just trade and the auction house is really simple (I mean it's not sophisticated) so it's probably easy to not cause bug.

[@brandonatherton]

That was one of my biggest complaints with PoE was that respec'ing wasn't more flexible, especially for newer players who are going to be trying things out and experimenting. Frankly it should just be free in town to make any changes you want, for a game as complex as PoE is. Nobody wants to spend a hundred hours on a built only to realize it's not as good as they thought it would be, and have to re-level and spend a bunch of time again.

[@newvocabulary]

PoE1 actually fixed respeccing with gold. Gold respec costs were cheap early game, and expensive late game. But late game, regret orbs were cheap so you'd just use those instead. The overall experience was that you'd get cheap respec early game, and cheap respec late game. Felt good.

[@erupter76500]

Ya, last seasonal character I played I had like 10k respec points. The end game refund is a little to punishing this time around.

[@gporr7004]

Exactly. When a game starts to feel like a job it’s not fun or a game anymore.

[@alextrebek5237]

Orb of regret = chaos orb, which you can get 2 from selling unidentified set of armor. Farm blood aqueduct and you can respec after an hour. Vs now, you having to grind like 4-5 days just to fully respec at level 50-55.

[@HookahOtaku]

They can do whatever balanced changes in EA, but they need to reduce drastically the price to respec to ease frustrations of constant adjustments which are sometimes massive nerfs.

[@cfcforever1]

im sitting on over 200k coins... just finish the game and youll farm money in an instant, not an issue

[@cfcforever1]

game isnt hard either, finished first trying most bosses with only fragmentation rounds mercenary build i made up, no prior experience, i honestly cant fathom the criticism

[@JigenNeko]

@cfcforever1 finishing the game AFTER your build might have been nerfed is not always a good time proposition

[@mikemike7818]

@@cfcforever1i agree that it is easy to finish the campaign with a half ass nerfed build even. But just ask yourself, what is the value of having huge costs to respec? Only thing I could come up with is a gold sink which is nonsense just reduce gold drops then

[@Zamperlikecheese]

@@cfcforever1 I mean you kinda made the point you didnt mean to you have finished the game and are on over 200k now a full respec if you want to completely pivot even changing around in the respec screen to costs around to over 200k gold .. so you are basically saying to invest everything Not to mention you are forgetting about people in cruel act 2/3 who went fully into cof if they dont have the money to respec they are basically forced to farm stuff like the cold boss in act1/act4 cruel for hours to be unbricked the main criticism was just hey if ggg does wide nerfs that can brick builds maybe they should give 1 free full respec

[@maniacmatt7340]

"cursed" effects and other things that avoid damaging your actual health while killing you have to be my least favorite type of mechanic in any game.

[@brandonatherton]

This. Anything that negates a build completely without allowing some way to work around it is just crap. Nothing like investing everything into defense, getting the tankiest stats possible, just to still get one shot because of defense piercing enemies/attacks, curses, or other things that can often be largely unavoidable in ARPGs with dozens or more enemies on screen attacking at a time, plus all of the effects happening.

[@neppity5887]

@@brandonathertoncurses and ailments do have ways to negate them, but the current game balance doesn't make it realistically achievable for most players. Hopefully it gets adjusted before the full launch. Armour breaking mobs are just as stupid as PoE1 overwhelm mobs though.

[@qwormuli77]

There are a multitude of ways to make gameplay shakeups like that good and examples to show it, but I agree that those are pretty commonly some of the most misused ways to manipulate difficulty.

[@cebolinha-oliginal]

@@maniacmatt7340 Oh man, for the second ascension test I choose to give the mobs poison and bleed, I regret it soooo much =(

[@DarkPassenger]

Especially as a Warrior....

[@Fleato]

I love ho you are talking about the POE community being elitist, and literally in chat later on someone is saying something in global chat and the responses are "skill issue" and " git gud"

[@gampie13]

Generally, git good or skill issue is not a Poe elitists response, It sounds more like something from the souls elitists. Poe elitists would comment about how your build is probably bad and not min-maxed enough

[@SenkaZver]

​@@gampie13 a lot of souls fans moved to PoE because of creators like Asmongold. The venn diagram of PoE/ARPG elitist and fromsoft fans is a perfect circle.

[@SenkaZver]

​as a diablo type arpg fan of like 20 years, you are right. Old fans would just comment on makin a better build

[@boomshanka4667]

Thats just a standard internet troll reply to push your buttons, like anything you do the more you do it the better you become.

[@kazuya246]

"Git gud" is a valid response when people are complaining that mechanics or bosses are impossible/unfair when they are not.

[@sanidhyadevgupta6452]

Went into trial of skemekis at level 76. First affliction: purple smoke Second affliction: take 1000 physical dmg Third affliction:minions do 40% less damage. And after that i lost my will. A critical point of game mechanic should not be locked behind a rng challenge. Update : I did the challenge easily at lvl 78 but on a minion build and had the luck of not taking any damage on the last boss as a boon .

[@Howard-j6e]

Why not? It makes it interesting and tests your skill in order to advance. If you’re having trouble go back out and level up and you’ll better next time.

[@Howard-j6e]

Not everybody gets a trophy until they deserve it!.

[@bubbasanches4591]

That's wild that you've already spent likely 200+ hours on your character. I'm guessing you're on welfare, or don't work?

[@OddGhoste]

@bubbasanches4591 My friend works full time over 80 hours every two weeks and is level 71. Your comment is null.

[@Keloot]

git gud

[@angrywoodbooger3353]

as a poe elitist, thank you for recognizing us

[@tni333]

Problem is I sometimes feel people played entirely different games. Kripparian, one of the best arpg players in the world, said Act 2 was the absolute hardest part of the game (right after he describes how everything on high end maps oneshots you) and I've read multiple times the Dreadnought is regarded as one of the hardest levels in the game. And I am just at a loss for words, because I just breezed through all of act 2. Nothing there I found particularly hard. Dreadnought was just another corridor of monster for me to explode. And I am a complete noob to poe and don't have any sort of planned out build. Heck, I'm not even that much of an ARPG player. I just click all the nodes with a flame on it, spam living bomb and corpse explosion and everything just dies. Bosses go down reasonably fast with fusilade as well, it's a lot of fun. And now that I'm in Act 3 I finally replaced the corpse explosions with fireball and got even stronger. I really don't know what to make of this. I guess the class balance during leveling is just way off.

[@PherPhur]

Beats me dude, I was thinking he had some pretty L takes as well. Getting 1 shot repeatedly in super high tier maps might be a problem, but I've got 1700 health as a warrior in tier 8 and it's fine. Though I will say so far, the beginning of the game was the hardest point of the game, it's only got easier. But nothing has been particularly HARD. Challening, sure, but not straight up like that blue bow chick in Elden Ring that I died to like 40 times and spent 4 hours on.

[@Tiriban]

You might've just gotten some better drops. RNG plays a huge part in all this.

[@KnarBurger]

Dreadnaught is only hard because of horrible level design. The amount of pathing jank and mobs getting stuck makes it pretty difficult to get a good flow going.

[@lagarttemido]

Kripparian actually points out it was because he did not drop a single skill gem during Act 2.

[@YammoYammamoto]

Stumbling onto a "build" that nukes - doesn't make you a god, or other people less "skilled" because they happened to choose a skill that wasn't good. As someone who didn't get a single item with lightning resist in 20 hours - luck with gear is a KEY issue as well. Question ought to be asked - perhaps the annoyance people are feeling with POE2, is because it kept too many vestigal parts of POE1. Why do I need to spend 5 points to get 52 points in extra Chaos damage? Why not cut the points in half and make it 1 node... I understand it for POE1 - but why is that still a thing in POE2?

[@gilney.mathias]

The problem is not the changes, its EA and i think most people understand that, the problem is people losing tons of hours on a character for it to be killed in 1 second without being able to even fix their characters. Jonathan even said they would give full respec on these occasions, so... WTF HAPPENED? Its EA, what is they so afraid to give players a bit of help?

[@miguelnascimento2847]

lmao I didn't know Jonathan said that, it makes this 1000x worse. Def not gonna come back to this game anymore

[@liarwithagun]

What is weird is that they already gave a respec for PoE2 on a more minor change where they changed a single node on the passive tree, but they basically removed and replaced an entire major mechanic of a class that people were doing entire builds around, yet they didn't give a respec for that. I don't mind spending a map or two of grinding for a respec, but having scaling respec costs and then bricking builds and not giving respecs is just... baffling really.

[@mac19999x]

​@@liarwithagun if you expected you'd have to grind a map or two to respec... you're playing the wrong game. Respecing in poe1 was expensive, what gave you the idea this time it would be any different?

[@quantumtp5872]

Why should that matter? Why have it be expensive when its EA? just make it free so i can try different builds. ​@mac19999x

[@phartford84]

@@mac19999x Did you miss the point in this video where he said that there were a bunch of new folks? Who might not have played POE1? Who didn't go to school in the snow, uphill both ways? You sound just like my grandpa. Be happy a respec only takes 20 hours of work now. It took 100 hours in POE1. God, this bullshit.

[@1rez378]

So the main problem is it being named Path of Exile 2.

[@Ankhtowe]

Basically, yes. It's a sequel to PoE as much as Dawn of War 2 was a sequel to DoW. In both cases, the game isn't bad, but in both cases, it's a very very different game to the original and not at all what people who like what the original was were expecting.

[@pivkemrzli2297]

you have a good point. i got scammed on that name, paid for an ARPG but got an elden ring game instead :/

[@jasonleeuk]

Path of Elden Ring would be better.

[@YammoYammamoto]

Elder Ring, cause you walk as if you were an elderly with a "walker".

[@BloodangelsNightcore]

Or Guild Wars 2 to Guild Wars. Damn I miss the original

[@1un4cy]

My favorite feature is having your lv80 build nerfed into oblivion so hard that you can't even farm for a respec since they don't give you a free respec for major changes. So the only way to play is to just reroll a whole new character.

[@r.d.6290]

Especially when you have runes and currency from the bricked high-level character and can use them to expedite leveling for the new character.

[@TheBadday78]

Thats soooo sad😢

[@eightlights4939]

If youre lvl 80 that fast its time to think long and hard about your life (or lack thereof)

[@alextrebek5237]

@@r.d.6290so you hate poe1, which had cheap respecs 🤨

[@alex9x9]

Let me guess, you made (copied?) a "cast on freeze/comet" build that you used to spam your way through the game thinking it was poe1 and now that the devs rightly nerfed that shit, you can't get past normal mobs anymore. How did i do?

[@jannol1269]

8:45 The vision is trash. Most players are casual, not HC players. Making games is all about money and they can make more money by creating the best ARPG than by creating spin-off to elden ring. Also they can have 2 difficulties just like poe 1 has. The only thing they cant get right is rewarding players for playing harder difficulties. Most games do it, why cant ggg get it too?

[@sgnox7781]

I agree my biggest issue is that combat just feels slow and bad, bosses are highlight but everything else is not great, layouts are terrible, endgame is just breach and backtracking feels like sequel to diablo 2 not poe.

[@Natural_Don]

the idea of it being difficult really falls flat to me after playing at the top levels in multiple genres of the hardest pvp games, its just tedious and uninspiring, no problem i'm not the target audience but that's massively glossing over how poe2 came to be, poe1 players getting shafted i won't be playing last exile soul 4 ruthless

[@SayHwhut]

My biggest problem with the discourse around poe2 is the excuse of "early access". Most of the problems people see with the game are core fundamental intentional design decisions. As UpperEchelon said, it is their artistic vision. I quit poe2 for the same reason I quit poe1 after religiously playing every league for about 5 years straight, the game just isn't made for me anymore. The things I enjoy about poe1/2 aren't what the devs want to focus on and the worst part is for years in poe1 the devs would state the problems I had in blog posts, claim that fixing those issues were the top priority, then do the exact opposite to their only stated goals league after league after league. It seems to have been memory holed that the poe reddit was once one of the most positive and pro-GGG places that any devs would have paid millions of dollars to have supporting them. They EARNED that positivity. The current cesspit of a reddit they have didn't happen overnight. The state of poe1/2 won't drastically change. If you enjoy one or both of the games don't worry, you'll be fine. If you don't like one or both then don't waste time praying for them to change. They won't. They haven't.

[@ZeLogicnator5k]

Holy shit, finally someone else gets the concept of development. Like none of these design ideas weren't thoroughly discussed and then broke out into sprints.

[@YoutubeStyleChannel]

Reddit in general has become a cesspit where people go to complain

[@m.h7881]

Give case examples?

[@davidschmidt2081]

Like what?

[@SayHwhut]

"We want to slow the game down characters are too fast" -every other league releases with a timer attached that makes it literally impossible to play slow, while untankable 1-shots make the only good defense the ability to instakill enemies "Power creep is out of control" -every new league spits out gear so OP that mirror-tier gear from the league before is either widely accessible or worse than the new top items "We want characters to focus more on defense and less on offense" -nerf defensive layers patch after patch while adding more 1-shots that make having defense useless unless it provides borderline invulnerability "We don't like the lack of visual clarity" -keep adding almost invisible on-death effects and the more damage an ability does the less visible it is from normal monsters "We don't like that people blast through maps and skip map bosses" -constantly add stacking more multipliers to mapwide loot rather than anything for bosses etc. etc. etc. This doesn't even cover the things they previewed and everyone told GGG it would be a disaster but said they "tested to make sure were in a good state" before GGG changed it to what they were told it should be a week into the league. Like slow Harbinger spawns, Abyss backtracking, Bestiary nets, Delve fuel issues, etc. etc. etc.

[@AncientGrease]

one small nitpick with POE 2 - aside from what UE mentioned - is that I feel the builds are very restricted for a POE game. In POE 1 you have support skills that don't work with skills, but you can experiment and use multiple identical supports for multiple skills, for POE 2, it feels like I have to use 2-3 skills in a fight, but only can chose from a few combinations of support skills that work (and I'm not talking about meta builds, I like to experiment in my own). The restriction for 1 support skill for an entire build is bad imo. I don't know why is it bad to have the same support skill for different attack skills if that support skill works with them.

[@UpToSpeedOnJaguar]

I think we'll see a bigger spread of support gems as more leagues come, but right now yes, builds are somewhat limited in scope with the current assortment of support gems for skills.

[@ablationer]

I had to go Gemling JUST for that reason alone. I hope they end up changing it later.

[@TheAluvisify]

I don't think this criticism has a ton of weight yet because we're clearly missing gems/supports, ascendancies, and whole classes/weapons. Like wait a bit until we actually have all those things before talking about build diversity and build depth.

[@AncientGrease]

@TheAluvisify Idk if we need to spell it to you but I clearly said "one small nitpick". How much weight do you think it has on my enjoyment of the game?

[@TouruZen]

I agree with this. I think they should do away with the 1 support skill for an entire build restriction. It doesn't feel good. While going through the campaign I have even left some skills without support skills because the only options left weren't that great it would just make the skills cost more.

[@VicStrange9]

As someone who played PoE for waaaay too long (2013 till 2023) I'd say that the biggest problem this game has is a SEVERE crisis of identity. PoE became big after becoming the ARPG that allowed you to go faster than its competitors (Grim Dawn, D3, so on and so forth) and while it always was the "more complicated arpg", half of the fun of the game was finding where those complicated interactions between items/skills/passive tree made you the gigabeast that destroys the game. Tools like Path of Building and the community sharing builds made that easier. It always had its problems: sometimes they came from overtuning content at the beginning of the league or simply not managing to balance the difference between what it is (isometric arpg) and what the devs wanted to try for the league (pokemon catcher, carcassone, waaaaaay more blatantly a roguelite, someone should tell them to drop it) but at the end of the day the community and the devs managed to find some sort of common ground. Problem is, IMO, that dev expectations changed really hard and really fast. I dont know exactly why, although I could point certain breaking points, like streamers breaking the game, which made them believe every player was on that same level of power, or the playerbase wanting some sort of crafting method that wasnt literally gamble and hope. That all collided with the idea of the game being some sort of souls-like for the hardcore elite, which has never been, and I think that came to a boiling point when Ruthless appeared and became what the devs wanted with PoE2. It simply doesnt work. They are two completely different playstyles and of course that has created a schism in the playerbase, which was already strained between the people who want the game they fell in love with and the ones who believe GGG can do no wrong and have adopted the from software juvenile attitude of "git gud". There are many, many problems to fix with this new approach, but I think the biggest issue is that they chose to say "this is Path of Exile now" instead of creating something new and pulling the old Path of Exile with it. Edit: I love the fact that you've tried to be as nuanced as possible given that there are two big sides on the community, and that deserves respect, even when it comes from someone on the other side (I'm more of a casual player, I just like my totems) but I'm not so sure on the "the new game requires skill". From where I stand, its a gear check. Like everything else. The insta explode giga fast builds? Mostly gear check. That's a design flaw IMO, one that PoE2 isnt fixing nor trying to fix. I would be 100% on the side of a slower more methodical combat if it didnt came in the form of very fast mobs that will dps you down or simply getting lucky with you gear, and specially, if it didnt came from a borrowed mechanic that is clearly overtuned and only exist to please the group of elitists, which is now mandatory because god forbid you get your ascendancy without paying the Sanctum tax. (Yes, i know, Ultimatum. Its bugged, and even if it wasnt, good luck surviving it)

[@user-pi4qo3zc2e]

It's early access but that does not excuse the blatant mistakes that should never have been made. Some ascendancy paths hurt your character rather than giving bonuses, many stats seem useless after basic math calculations, and locking the ascendancy behind the honor dungeon makes it seem like the studio is trying the game style first time instead of having worked on it for 10 years. I 100% agree it has an identity crisis on top of it as well: why is there inventory management when you can teleport back to camp and merchants for free, why there is only a single difficulty option (hardcore doesn't count) that ends up being too casual for some and too hardcore for others based on their RNG item drops, what is the point of procedural maps that are all the same insanely large sprawling dungeons. PoE2 perfectly compares to Remnant 2: extremely flawed games that get high praise because traditional AAA studios refuse to make good games.

[@angrymoths]

If PoE2 becomes like 1 Ill probably stop playing it. PoE1 doesn't appeal to me, but the parts of iit that are in 2's wrapping do.

[@spade981]

As a POE player who has 3000 hr. Poe 2 is very fun and overall great...once or twice. I just can't even remotely see me playing this every 3 months. Which is pretty sad. Its a little to slow paced and tedious. There needs a middle ground between what we have and poe 1

[@Osiris02]

Exactly, it feels like Diablo 1 or 2, slow progression, rewarding boss fights (now) and something I can chip away at over a year or two. I don't feel like doing it all again with a League. It's not fast paced enough for that.

[@cebolinha-oliginal]

@@spade981 Don’t you feel like you’ll be able to clear faster with the knowledge you gained? Like creating more OP lvl 10 builds and what not?

[@ryanmitchell1721]

​@@cebolinha-oliginal no, he's one of the people from the camp that wanted this to be something closer to poe1. Which this isn't. And he's not wrong to feel that way, but poe1 still exists and will be maintained with regular content, so these people still have what they prefer.

[@naycnay]

​@@cebolinha-oliginal I mean, you can run the campaign now on an alt with twink stuff ready to roll and just see how slow and tedious it is. I'm enjoying POE2. Had a rough time after the big-brains min-maxed CoF comets and GGG fucking nuked me for choosing the path they presented. The switch was rough, really rough and that is frankly a terrible experience, but I'm stubborn enough to sit through what many might not. Saying all that, I went through pain to fix my sorceress because I've already done the campaign once on her and getting into act 6 again as a Merc. I can't be fucked to make another character. The levelling experience is just not conducive for "fun". It's actively anti-fun.

[@spade981]

@@ryanmitchell1721 This is true poe 1 is still there. That is probably why I'm more sad then mad. I just ask myself would play Baldur's Gate 3 every 3 months. That sounds fun but daunting. I just want the challenge of 2 but get a larger chunk of the game in 20hr. On my Monk I'm in cruel act 2. Love it but I'm like wow this is long. How is the newer players ever getting to maps when leagues start? I think shrinking some maps specifically in act 3 down could smooth out the flow. Or they won't and it is what it is.

[@FrostyFate]

My only issue is some bosses are spongey to the point of boredom >.>

[@tinkmaster1054]

GGG is a nonstop rollercoaster ride; they make a bunch of really solid design decisions and then they go and do completely asinine things like using the Sanctum mechanic, one of the most polarized mechanics they've ever made with almost everyone either loving it or hating it (mostly hating it), as one of the two ways to get ascendancy points. Edit: grammar

[@Deadsnake989]

I don't really mind them using sanctum as an ascension mechanic, considering you have another option. I'm hoping in full release they'll add other old mechanics for ascension. Personally I'd love to see Blight used for ascension, also Heist.

[@TankHunter678]

@@Deadsnake989 I personally would not mind seeing the old labyrinth come back as an ascension options. They could really update the boss fights and level design with the new stuff they have going on in poe2.

[@Deadsnake989]

@@TankHunter678 The traditional Lab would be cool too. I'm honestly sick of it personally, since I've been playing PoE 1 before ascensions even existed. But it would be nice to have it back for people who prefer it. I'm 100% on board for just adding more player options in the game.

[@TankHunter678]

@@Deadsnake989 Well another reason why I would want it back... is that people do not like being stuck with completely random curse/chaos that could very quickly brick an ascension run. Nothing like losing a chunk of honor every time you clear a trial simply because you cleared the trial.

[@Deadsnake989]

@@TankHunter678 "Nothing like losing a chunk of honor every time you clear a trial simply because you cleared the trial." Wait, is that a modifier? I've never seen that, that's absolutely asinine.

[@Incognito-----------]

I just play the game, I don't listen anybody about the game, pro or con. I am just playing the game and having fun...period. I like it because you have to use your brain and its more challenging.

[@IncredibleFlyinSquid]

I've been one of those "just get better at the game" types, but I realized not too long ago I was just being an echo chamber of other elitest gamers who'd said that to me, and that the advice was unconstructive and useless. Always call that language out as lacking in detailed critical analysis of the subject matter, because it's not a skill issue when you are able to properly explain what is out of balance.

[@ericneo2]

I'm so done with everyone defending lazy devs and their poor balancing because it makes the game more dank souls like, good devs put in accessibility options for younger and older gamers with difficulty options. When people get over the honeymoon period they will leave and not come back with a negative impression for future games.

[@ItoKun2]

PoE 1 is about pressing 1-3 buttons, but PoE 2 is different. Here is the video of PoE 2 where I'm literally spam 1 button on monk because it's the best way of playing it.

[@coopstain1728]

I disagree. I am playing Monk and I use 4-5 skills. Sometimes 6.

[@Solkard]

@@coopstain1728Way to out your skill issue, crutching on those extra buttons.

[@Nabekukka]

​@@Solkard Way to out your skill issue, not using those extra buttons

[@piboy7454]

I just like buttons

[@r.d.6290]

Using more than two buttons is a DPS loss in POE most of the time.

[@toorandomenvi]

Thing is a year down the line the hardcore audience is the only one playing

[@sgnox7781]

Yea unless they changed a lot in different direction the game doesnt have much future poe will still clap it.

[@BLASTER95_TTV]

Not here to complain about either. The game just can’t hold my attention. I play 45 min at a time because it just don’t click.

[@ryanadshead4809]

For me, the worst thing is that loot just disappears if you die. Particularly if you defeat a boss and one of their attacks still goes off after the boss died and kills you. POOF! Loot gone...:(

[@mac19999x]

yeah thats not cool. Think we can all agree on that one.

[@StillWeRide]

sounds like a fanboy defense. its not difficult or engaging...its just fucking tedious

[@sgnox7781]

Pretty much

[@Oyxopolis]

One big problem with ther vision GGG has for PoE2, is the fact that they claim to want a more focused, deliberate type of gameplay, but at the same time they throw mobs, projectiles and vfx at you at the same rate as in PoE1. It's already somewhat a problem that the gameplay of the campaign and the endgame in maps do not match in PoE1, but this is tenfold in PoE2 and it most certainly does not match the proposed vision GGG supposedly has.

[@YammoYammamoto]

Astute.

[@frustratedsquirrel]

it's not 'at the same rate' though. Anyone who's played for more than a few moments can tell that even the basic mobs in this game are far better designed than PoE1, with better telegraphs, more interesting mechanics and rewarding you for good positioning. It's night and day.

[@Oyxopolis]

@@frustratedsquirrel A few moments is exactly when you can NOT see that, because this issue is end-game related. The campaign is fantastic.

[@SPTX.]

13:59 that was already a problem with POE1. Many builds are just completely unusable in end game because you HAVE to build and equip every single defense types. if you never complained about builds getting locked out of game content for POE1, then you don't really have a right to complain here, because you enabled it.

[@tacitus7797]

Fair point - GGG has been speaking out of both sides of their mouth for years about wanting a slower game and then having a bunch of very aggressive time trials. Now if you complain about this - the vocal minority elitists would complain and downvote you. My solution was to stop playing when I hit a wall during end game. After being ignored and belittled for years/I gave up about 6 years ago after playing from closed beta.

[@jithianlaurent6490]

Yeah, it's like people forgot that melee sucked for years and probably is still worse then ranged and spells to this day. POE1 lets you do a lot, but so little of it really works without trade.

[@tacitus7797]

@@jithianlaurent6490Has melee improved in the past few years?

[@jithianlaurent6490]

@@tacitus7797 One of this year's leagues changed a lot of numbers for melee. I haven't played since but it should be in a better place.

[@tacitus7797]

@@jithianlaurent6490 LOL ... might try POE again. It was almost funny - back in the day on the few occassions you got an OP pure melee skill it would be nerfed immediately, while OP spell skill blowing up entire rooms on a single blow would take a couple of weeks to get toned down (maybe).

[@SaltpeterTaffy]

My life has recently become far too interesting to become addicted to that game again. Knowing that GGG is now completely owned by Tencent only makes it easier to walk away.

[@sesimie]

46 year old gamer here. I grew up on arcade gaming in the 80's and 90's. I've played almost every ARPG ever made...with D2 for almost 10 years. I've played POE1 for almost 10 years on and off. POE2 is more my style. I'm a Conan Exiles veteran, so dodge rolling is one of my favourite things. The game is almost catered to my hyperactive brain while being a slower pace and detailed in combat. POE1 was good but it got stale with mindlessness and flashy explosions. Once POE2 get's past Early Access it's probably going to be one of my favourite games of all time! Now the critique. 1. Bugs need to be ironed out it's Early access so I'm expecting it to get smoother 2. Difficulty is fine for me, even with arthritis. Certain mobs one shot you and you have no clue how.... a combat log in game would be awesome. 3. Some of the wording on skills could be more in depth. More vs increased for example. the difference between percentage increase and + something etc.

[@angrymoths]

Based gamer, my other older bud also really like PoE2 over the others and appreciates the tasteful d2 vibes. Personally we've had a lot of fun but haven't struggled obscenely. There's checkpoints everywhere anyway

[@JoeMama-xu8fs]

I have beaten the early access done the endgame some and the difficulty a major factor in how much I didnt have fun playing the game. Now that I made it through the campaign I know this game is not for me this is not what I fell in love with in POE1. I much more enjoy the brain off fast paced combat over this slow slog of a game that is POE2 plus the gear sucks and the maps are in desperate need of teleports or something because it's not fun running around these huge maps after your done clearing. Plain and simple this game DOES NOT RESPECT MY TIME.

[@boomshanka4667]

just TP out dude

[@PherPhur]

Is it that the game doesn't respect your time or is it that you don't respect your brain cells? The maps are a circle or a square, go along the outside edges and catch all the rares and mobs, by the time you have made it all the way around you will have killed enough mobs to trigger the rares showing up on your map, which will be somewhere in the center, so you cut diagonally through the center and hit the rares and all the mobs there, then you port out. You don't have to backtrack. Maybe try thinking real hard first before coming and trying to poo all over years of hard work from passionate devs who have tirelessly worked to bring the community something they think we would enjoy, while being willing to listen to our feedback and make changes.

[@frustratedsquirrel]

just go around the edges of the maps, it's not hard. How did POE1 respect your time, making you go through a really dull and easy campaign before having any actual challenge?

[@stanislavkimov2779]

PoE2 is for me though. While old ARPGs like PoE1 are not. I don't like turn brain off games. I don't need them to be too complicated, but they should require my engagement. Knowledge (have to spend dozens and hundreds of hours to get it) + 0 action = the worst formula for me. I like the turn PoE2 made so much.

[@alb3rth0fmann]

​@@stanislavkimov2779 I never played poe1 and now I'm kinda glad or it may have tainted my expectations for poe2. We have d4 already for that kind of game already, and man is it borrrrring after playing a new season for a week, clearing "end" game and having literally nothing to do. Coming in blind and wow Poe2 feels so good, much more akin to d2. Sure it could use some tweaks to certain aspects, and I'm sure we'll see them in the coming months

[@Turbro39]

Act 2 Jamanra may as well be a pinnacle boss. The game is fun, no doubt, but it needs tuning. No boss in normal difficulty, especially in act 2 should feel so insurmountable unless you have very specific builds. Great game, but needs work.

[@r.d.6290]

Omg, this boss just made me delete my character and start over

[@YoutubeStyleChannel]

I had issues with him until I learned his mechanics and how to set-up the arena, kite him etc. First character died about 20 times, second character was deathless.

[@Michael-ex8lk]

Ive had zero issues with that boss on 4 separate characters.

[@xspindrift8737]

@@Michael-ex8lk You get a gold star.

[@eightlights4939]

Thats wild, played through that 4 times in 4 different characters and had no issues

[@JohnDoe-cz5yz]

Now I'm glad I didn't buy early access. I'm getting older and my reaction time isn't getting better and I don't want to be sweating in a game after a hard work day. I'll just play Warframe to relax and feel like a nuke on two legs.

[@HookahOtaku]

lol you can play a ranged class(ez mode) and dodge on like on boss fights... dont tell me a bit of effort in just boss fights gonna give you a cardiac arrest... lol

[@xspindrift8737]

@@HookahOtaku It was his opinion he was not crapping on the game.

[@mac19999x]

its not a fast paced game. Bosses tend to be difficult at times, but you can still get em as long as you dont mind thinking how to build your character. Though, you need to understand one thing, early access is marketing code for a beta test. They are fine tuning the game, and we are the testers. If you keep your expectations are reasonable, you wont be disappointed. Also, they nerfed the game hard already.

[@Deadmeatsz]

funny how cultists of every game never really change and refuse to accept truths and possibilities of their games that comes from a grander multi faceted perspective. (quick to call out skill-issue in "harder" games but actively avoiding the toughest games overall with excuses is another common issue for them)

[@AlexWaff]

Also lol at elitists sitting on a high horse, saying skill issue, preaching the game should be hard - then their broken buggy build gets fixed and suddenly they're crying out for refunds because now they have to actually play the game and can't reroll, but their build now doesn't instaclear everything and they have to put in effort, the horror.

[@theperfectbeing]

The best part is they copied the build from someone else in the first place

[@ren2ito]

Yeah hahah After the recent patch i was laughing so hard as the world chat was in flames with people crying about the nerfs. But thats just it, if you invest into taking the easy way by abusing OP stuff then dont cry about it if it eventually gets nerfed.

[@georgen5882]

That is pretty hilarious in the end. And it always happens in every game that nerfs something so good it’s likely broken. It’s a weird double standard they have. You can’t listen to these communities and take them too seriously. They praise the features of one game as being great, then pan another that has similar or almost exact copies of that feature. It's a weird sense of loyalty I guess, but it happens all the time. Gamers hate nothing more than developers and other gamers.

[@skeetorkiftwon]

​@theperfectbeing That's nothing, try to go warrior dual wield 2hdr and find that Unerring Impact doesn't even give the +2 to melee range and Crushing Verdict doesn't just slow attack speed, but also gives -1,-1,-1,-5% to movement speed and fire resist as well. So the "meta" punishes you no matter what you're playing. Not to mention the cpu demand issues gatekeeping my kid's computer that runs farcry 6 at max specs but can't run this rng loot casino despite the check all your drivers and settings minigame.

[@doodly1152]

It's not even that lol. Tf you on about? It's about not being able respec at a cheaper price. I should be able to readjust if certain core mechanics for the build are gone/useless. They're literally trying to git gud by adjusting the build but I have to grind gold again. Grinding isn't a skill issue, it's an endurance and time issue So yeah, git gud.

[@SebasTian-xk4xt]

This might just be a problem with gaming in general. Like for Warframe, the devs have gone to such lenghts to make sure a defined meta and hyperoptimized builds are not needed and people STILL look up those kidns of builds thinking that's the way to succeed in the game...new players do this for the most part. It's just sad, whatever happened to having fun playing games? Why can't these people play on their own terms? And most importantly...why can't they SHUT THE HELL UP when someone has another build that does 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000069% less damage than theirs...

[@sgnox7781]

Its fun to break a game, people get fun in different ways, and when the game is mostly single player it doesnt matter what other does so you can choose your experience. The issue is also ggg tends to balance the game around top builds its the case for poe 1 its gonna be the same for poe2

[@jakethorson6525]

No one has complained about the difficulty, people are complaining about how tedious it is.

[@don_barbour]

In what way? genuine question, haven't played one of these games since D2, I do play a lot of souls games though. I rarely ever seem to get gear drops for my class though, maybe 10% tops and there are six classes atm?

[@sgnox7781]

@@don_barbour Bad zones layout that are huge, slow and clunky animations, not much loot etc

[@PurpleNim]

As great as this game is and as good as the developers have been (and still are) there are moments where you can just about make out the game design fartsniffing that's going on behind the scenes with some of the blatantly ridiculous design decisions and their refusal to accept that they should be changed.

[@mac19999x]

dude... you do realize the purpose of early access is not to release a perfect game but rather fine tune it?

[@PurpleNim]

@@mac19999x And you do realize that these pig headed design decisions can be observed since the early days of POE 1 right?

[@Psoewish]

My take is that if they manage to keep the current update cadence up, we’ll have to start complaining about something being a pixel off or something in 2 weeks lol. Game definitely does have some issues, but more than half of the ones I personally had have already been fixed, or are already slated to be fixed. I’d still love better respecs though, I want to mess around and experiment more!

[@senpairyujin]

I called it quits when I got to maps. The same place I stopped POE 1 was mid 90s as a Ranger back then. I simply don't have the patience for a game that blatantly wastes my time and in doing so encourages me to go play something else.

[@johnmagus6341]

There are a few things that can be tweaked....but its an absolutely awesome game. Definitely my favorite release all year.

[@Lurch150]

11:54 The elitists want POE2 to be easier like POE1? Isn't it the new players who are complaining about difficulty? I'm confused.

[@softan]

They want it to be braindead like poe yes.

[@randomgamer518]

A lot of people seem to not get (or not want to accept) the simple fact that: Crafting and build planning IS the game. Mapping is a means to an end: farming resources in SSF, or currency in Trade. Acts are, after your literal first clear, just a stepping stone on the way to mapping. Path of Building is the real game, in a way.

[@Scienceoflife10]

True! The real game is to make the most powerful char, everything else is secondary.

[@Mobay18]

@@Scienceoflife10 Grinding for better gear is pointless.

[@akutooth]

​@@Mobay18 arpgs might not be for you bud.

[@Scienceoflife10]

@@Mobay18 I agree!

[@irrototiam]

Limiting a game to just that its what made me quit PoE1, i much prefer the formula of the second, some build planning and a good amount of skill. I like retrying bosses for a dozen times until i learn their patterns, but i also like the possibility to farm and upgrade my gear and passives in case the boss its still too difficult.

[@hiddenlore5312]

Bro these gatekeepers I swear they are so annoying, its like they migrated from Elden ring or some shit and now they are here.

[@BLASTER95_TTV]

Definitely a brain off game. Been playing sorceress & has been way too easy & not grasping my attention whatsoever. 32 hours 30-45 minutes at a time.

[@FrocketGaming]

I mostly haven't mind anything done in POE2 up until mapping. I absolutely hate only being allowed 1 fatal mistake in a map before being kicked out of it. Last night I did a map with rituals and I had finished 2 of them without deciding what I wanted then I finished the map and I was hunting for the 3rd ritual and died before I found it... it felt absolutely horrible because now it was a wasted mechanic that I couldn't go back to try and interact with.

[@Stefus87]

Just wait until you want to ascend the 3rd time. Good luck having fun!

[@ryanmitchell1721]

This is fair, but the game does provide you a way to target farm these types of encounters if that's what you like. I agree it sucks, but when you have the ability to make every map in a region have ritual encounters, it feels a little less bad blowing one.

[@0ihatetrolls01]

I was really enjoying it until a hit a wall, DPS checkn boss so skill is out of the question, no drops, no crafting materials, no skill gem upgrades, no unqiues, I've been farming for a full day for upgrades and nothing yet so my enjoyment has just completely flagged

[@faw7858]

it tooke me like 5h to beat the boss in act2. IT was a nightmare. my friends did it in 3 4 tries. Either i just suck or my gear was so bad 😀

[@boomshanka4667]

i honestly dont believe you, crafting orbs are pretty easy to obtain

[@Stefus87]

@@boomshanka4667 They really are not. You can easily spend 1 hour of farming on 2 items that probably isn't good because of RNG. I love to craft, but there's simply not enough regal/exalted orbs. You are much better off saving your exalted orbs and find an item on trade instead of using them to craft. They have too high value atm.

[@Greamzih]

At which boss did it happen?

[@0ihatetrolls01]

@@boomshanka4667 Why on earth would I make that up?

[@DrAlexandrius]

The problem I've encountered with most ARPGs in terms of building a characters is the lack of knowledge about late game stat requierments. I found myself investing in a certain stat, armor for example, only to realize later that armor is useless and should always be avoided, even thogh I was playing a Warrior-like character that has armor as one of his main stats... The lack of an easy respec just turns me off from playing afterwards because my character feels like I've wasted my time

[@Highstar7331]

Yup, it always sucks to fly blind once you hit something

[@boomshanka4667]

armour is good but you genrally need id say 2 forms of dmg aviodence, try grab some energy shield or blind chance on skills and there are others to look into.

[@thebadash4165]

That's probably one of the most valid criticisms I've heard so far.

[@josephlh1690]

I would hate that kind of game where you can't do any respecs. And your saying it happens in late game? That is just egregious. People should not have to start from scratch that deeply into the game, because the time it took to reach that point was already a slog.

[@synoxify]

@@josephlh1690 endgame is basicly avoid the one shots even on extremly tanky builds, it will happen and its not boss its just randoms ass mobs off screening you regulary, with only 1 attempt at "juiced" map it gets old extremly fast, which is where alot of poe1 vets are now at and the feedback just shows it

[@GarryArthur-et8dg]

I’m a new player to arpg in general and I absolutely love the game but one thing I dislike severely is loot disappearing after you kill a boss and die to a dot or on death effect that is just a slap in the face

[@mac19999x]

the explosion on death mechanism is always annoying, though, at least as merc, you can avoid that. At least most of the time, cause its only a matter of time until i lose some epic loot cause of a misstep.

[@sgnox7781]

Will you come back to reclear the campaign and plays tons of hours in the endgame every new season (4 month cycle)

[@jonanamar8503]

Fact: The entire concept of POE would have never existed without Diablo…. Imitation is the highest form of flattery….

[@HerbDerderdrerd]

The problem is that the "hardcore" players have no issue with content as they only play streamer builds or consume a large amount of meta content.Playing the game organically has the same issue as the first game in that there are many "bad" choices you can get locked into that are presented as equally viable options. Loved poe1, having mixed feelings about 2 but it's very much EA so reserving judgement.

[@joeysmit4644]

exactly this. I'm currently at the end of act 2 and I can't even get close to killing the boss. I just don't have the right build/items to pump out enough dps. It feels like you have to abuse a broken (almost bugged/exploit kind of build) in order to have fun. If you just want to run around and figure a build out yourself, you're gonna have a rough time.

[@JacobAKAcornpop]

U guys are wild just takes some basic forethought and rpg knowledge what bad choices are you locked into I don't get it.

[@joeysmit4644]

@@JacobAKAcornpop (Mercenary) I went for a rapid fire + crit build. didnt know it would only have 10% of the dps of the common poison cloud + grenade combo. My main ability feels like a pea-shooter.

[@HerbDerderdrerd]

​@@JacobAKAcornpop It is not controversial to say, of either 1 or 2, that certain skills suck, certain builds suck, entire classes can even suck and respecs are not forthcoming at first. I'm doing fine but I can see why people aren't. All it takes is to understand that simple concept is 🤡 BaSic 🤡 FoReThOuGhT 🤡

[@liarwithagun]

@@joeysmit4644 tried that so I know your pain. The damage scaling is just not there for any of the auto-fire skills, especially if you are using them to out-right do damage instead of as a delivery mechanism for some other effect (armor break, etc). Very flat damage. And anything that could improve it (like chain or scattershot) has damage reduction that lowers the damage below the threshold and the attack ends up with more than a 30% nerf the support warns about because of how the damage numbers are calculated. After some testing I ended up switching to a different Merc build.

[@fabiobravo329]

Came for the controversy, stayed for the cool background lightining quarterstaff build!

[@breese50]

I was completely mesmerized as well

[@yoAventus]

no seriously what build even is this, lightning looks so fun

[@rexvectum]

Pfff yeah right dude that's the worst quarterstaff build I've ever seen this guy sucks

[@rexvectum]

Jk btw 😂😂

[@IXIFrostIXI]

most mid game ever. its diablo with extra steps

[@JR-dq3lw]

This is such a "1st world problems" type of controversy. 😆

[@erchobo]

I love creating my own characters without relying on cookie-cutter builds. If my character ends up being weak, I just make another one or respec until I find the perfect balance-and I absolutely love it!

[@coopertrooper9679]

Idk how to describe it as it is complex but there is a huge disconnect within the community rn. You have one side that is POE1 veterans and ARPG enthusiasts, and then the other side are new exiles who have no context of what an arpg is outside of diablo 4. The first crowd is generally not happy with the direction the game is taking because it doesn’t really feel like an arpg. The game is killing build diversity and player expression to provide a consistent difficulty experience. Veterans are angry about this because that was literally the entire appeal of POE. These new exiles are completely missing context of what components make a good ARPG and everything that has gone on in this genre. How many of these new players coming in played POE1, last epoch, grim dawn, D2 etc. If people don’t have this context they literally do not know what makes an ARPG an ARPG. They only have D4 to base off of which is barely in the same genre. New exiles literally do not know what they are missing out on in this new game. They don’t know what they are sacrificing for the sake of static difficulty. Not sure if all this makes sense to anybody reading but i described it the best i can. This divide is very complex and nuanced and this is just one aspect of it. GGG is in a weird spot because their vision of what they want the game to be is directly at odds with what the original POE fan base wants but they will also want to satisfy the new players. The reality is that nobody has ever made a game like this. A dark souls inspired ARPG has not been attempted before. It will be very interesting to watch the future unfold for this game. This game could very possibly create a new niche within the ARPG genre.

[@mac19999x]

dude... the literal purpose of early access is to tune the numbers.

[@sgnox7781]

@@mac19999x Its not the numbers lmao, its the core design decision like slow animation, no movement abbilities etc.

[@GusMixGaming]

4:50 thank you. Now I understand why I never could get into the first one though I tried to like it and why I love PoE2 so much.

[@jeffcxx]

The 'get gud' crowd really pissed me off during launch on the way they were treating any complaints in game chat. It really made me think of the worst of wow PF.

[@mac19999x]

what did you expect? A hug? No one wants to hear your complains.

[@naruroGCS]

@@mac19999x based

[@Fr33Diver]

I don’t see how GGG can alienate the new/casual players. They would be losing about 50% of their potential revenue. My prediction is that the difficulty at some point will in fact change.

[@sgnox7781]

Difficulty is not the issue though its the pacing, no movement skill, slow skill etc. Game is extremely easy if you play good build or trade or craft something good every now and then

[@Corrupted]

Im absolutely loving it, 70 hours played already lmao - the increased difficulty lets you stresstest your build instead of just running through it completely brainlessly

[@sgnox7781]

Will you start fresh every 4 months aka new season ?

[@__rezin__7819]

This game is not fun in its current iteration and I will be proven right when the hype wears off

[@ArticulateArena]

OH no.. GGG made players mad? it's not like that's been the POE experience for the last 5 years... and the hype and "good will" if fake and pushed by npcs POE 2 bad and POE 1 has been ruined over the last 5 years to be a testing ground for poe 2 it's not like poe's community has been known for being toxic with some of the most downvoted posts on reddit coming from it ( mostly chris wolcen and ggg posts )

[@zsoltkovacs8049]

Dude I'm new to this "community" but the absolute level of f.cking entitlement from these "veterans" is both frustratingly cringy, hilarious and kind of sad. I haven't seen such a narcissistic group of autism powered nerds since the early wow forums. Might just be I'm too eastern europian to get it, but it sure doesn't look pretty.

[@joncarter3761]

POE2 elitists are like souls elitists, their only value/worth in life is they're good at the game. Not everyone who's an amazing player is an elitist but the gatekeepers and the 'git gud' crowd are only hurting the game overall with their stupid and reductive behaviour.

[@sgnox7781]

Pretty much also the game relies on people coming back every season i dont think the elitist will be that playerbase

[@cryotimber]

Beat the campaign today and learned about Cruel Mode. This is completely incongruous with what the devs were talking about. "We paused building the campaign to build on the end game, which is what we want to show off in the early access. Now spend 80+ hours slogging through the campaign to get to the end game we COULDN'T WAIT to show you"

[@MichaelPohoreski]

That is NOT new. They did the SAME THING in PoE1 where it ORIGINALLY had 2 acts, then 3, then 4 with Normal, Cruel, Merciless difficulties before the copy-pasta 10 Acts of 3.0.

[@cryotimber]

@@MichaelPohoreski I'm just sayin. The stated point of the Early Access was to show off and test end game. Why is there an 80 hour wall in front of it?

[@MichaelPohoreski]

@@cryotimber "The Vision". For some reason GGG has a hard on for slowing the game down to a CRAWL. Their reason is they want "a more tactical ARPG". The problem is they have slowed it down SO much that it feels tedious.

[@cyfertau1975]

@@MichaelPohoreski Sounds like false advertising/fraud + a dolop of sadism.

[@MichaelPohoreski]

@@cyfertau1975 Their excuse is “Early Access”. GGG’s philosophy on the campaign has always been a weird one. Take PoE1. Who the hell BUFFS Act 1??? You want to get as many new players addicted to the game first and THEN ramp up the difficulty instead of scaring most of them away from the get go. Part of me wonders if GGG didn’t artificially increase the hours required to get through the PoE2 campaign is because they were sick of streamers blazing through the PoE1 campaign in around 4 hours. /s

[@TheBrewthahoodUFC]

what class/build are you using in the video?

[@cs1458]

All I know about Path of Exile is that it would come up when I was searching Pillars of Eternity.

[@nicklager1666]

Thanks for the info. I never buy early access so im not directly affected but it will help me make an informed decision whether i will buy it later when its released

[@Colderslave]

It'll be free.

[@liarwithagun]

It will be free-to-play on release and EA is pay-to-play. They did the same on PoE1

[@EldritchSoundscape]

Top 1% are the worst kind of people

[@arthurfilemon6038]

Obviously it's my own personal experience. But throughout years of playing POE1 I never felt the community as elitists... Always ready to help in world chat!

[@mac19999x]

it really depends on person. If someone starts complaining in the chat that the game is bad cause he got stuck while kiting mobs, then no one will treat said person seriously. If you're being resonable, and ignore the obvious trolls, then the chat will be your friend. However, from my experience, most people are just spoiled children, thus they get treated as such.

[@ThatReplyGuy]

I played PoE1 since it's beta. I have over 3000 hours played over nearly a decade. My highest level character is 86, and I've never really engage with endgame, it just wasn't fun for me. When a character hit level 70 and the build was "done" that's when I got bored and rolled a new one. I played PoE1 much like I do PoE2, every build had the Dash skill with Second Wind, and I played MUCH slower than most players, checking every rock and chest, scouting gear for potential new build ideas, and killing every enemy I see. I enjoyed it, but I enjoy PoE2 more because it fits my playstyle perfectly. I can't wait to see where it goes from here.

[@naruroGCS]

idk if you are a masochist or a enlightened being, but its cool you have fun playing this way lol, doing multiple lvlings in a league sound like a torture to me

[@ThatReplyGuy]

@naruroGCS pee League, I'd do two at most.

[@bendybruce]

I genuinely appreciate you are willing to acknowledge just how difficult it is to offer criticism of POE without being nitpicked to death by the defenders of the realm. According to them it's entirely and always the players fault never triple G. I eventually stopped trying to even communicate when I felt this game has gone in the wrong direction because it's just not worth the stress.

[@L233233]

Massive class imbalances, terrible melee gameplay and bad loot RNG simply don't go well with overtuned content. What may be very doable for person A becomes impossible for person B based on random BS outside of the player's direct control. This is why I generally feel that this level of difficulty is not a great match for a this type of game. If you want to make a Soulslike, make a Soulslike, and not whatever the hell this is supposed to be. With regard to loot, sorry but PoE2 just feels terrible. Maybe it got better after the recent patch, I have yet to play it since then. I can respect the fact that they want to get away from the Loot Pinatas but killing a tough act end boss and getting 2 garbage blues, a pithy amount of gold and a scroll of wisdom just felt terrible. They want this to be a crafting game? Yeah, sorry, no. Crafting is boring, always has been, in every game that ever had it.

[@frustratedsquirrel]

lol, crafting is boring. No wonder you don't like the game, you have no patience for anything beyond beat with stick and theme park progression.

[@L233233]

@@frustratedsquirrel Patience? What are you even babbling about? Crafting takes zero "patience" or skill or even thought. You just click on the thing and then there is an item. Riveting gameplay right there!!

[@theperfectbeing]

@@frustratedsquirrel That would be a fair assessment if the crafting wasn't RNG horseshit. If you want crafting in a game to be the main progression for character power then you need to allow people to build specifically and add stats they want directly. Then you can make certain bosses or challenges drop those items (targetted farming) It's called deterministic crafting and for some reason GGG thought it a good idea to strip from the game and make this shit casino based. There's nothing enjoyable about using 5 orbs in attempt to boost a good base stat item only to have it get completely bricked.

[@ryanmitchell1721]

Homie, are you alright? this is nothing like a "souls like". Having to roll around boss attacks, or level of difficulty, isn't specific to souls like games. Crafting isn't specific to poe2, either. Poe1 has arguably one of the most complicated crafting systems ever, and literally most all other arpgs has some level of crafting. shit bro, even mmorpgs have crafting. If you don't like crafting in games, it's weird that you'd even try this game? Seems like you knew you wouldn't like it before even booting it up. Good news is you don't need to keep playing. All of the other crap you rattled off was addressed in a patch that you admittedly haven't tried, sooooooooo

[@GoonyMclinux]

​@@ryanmitchell1721no it hasn't, I've been playing for 5 hours on and off and got nothing but crap drops, no good weapons and an unbeatable boss sitting in front of me. 😂

[@lathamtk]

Man, It took me like 4-5 days to get to maps on my frost sorc and then they mercilessly nerfed cast on freeze comet... I didn't even get to enjoy it. It really took the wind out of my sails, and I had to make a new character because I can't afford to respec and regear my old sorc... like you said, it felt like 30-40 hours of playtime went down the drain. I don't fault them for nerfing it, I fault them for no recompensation and/or no heads-up for the coming nerfs. I wish they didn't nerf builds as quickly as they fix bugs. I would've liked to try out the atlas and maps for myself but now I'm ~40 hours away from the atlas again...

[@Altmer353]

so? I dont understand what is the problem here? They nerfed cast of freeze. Its not like you need to respec your build for that. Unless you took energy nodes, but those are few. Just properly cast skills and leave cast on freeze as supplementary damage. I to have a frost sorc. I just changed gems lodout and thats it. Respeced like10 nodes in total.

[@Stefus87]

@@Altmer353 What are the downsides of making it cheaper to respec? Right now GGG is forcing people into metabuilds and cross their fingers that it won't get nerfed, or save massive amounts of gold in case they do. You also limit players' ability to fiddle around and try to make your own build. The only somewhat good argument I have seen against making respec costs low, is that "everyone will just respec to the flavor of the day". That's how it is now anyway, it just demands hours of you playing before you can achieve it instead. I hate the fact that I can't try out new builds because it simply is too costly. It hinders my creativity, and makes me want to play proven good builds instead of trying to come up with my own. For example; I am playing merc, and made my own semi-optimal build. If I want to respec into trying out grenades, I should respec 2/3rds of my passives, which costs me around 300.000 gold at the moment. If I want to tweak it, it will costs me perhaps another 100.000 gold. But if I don't like it, I will be stuck with it for HOURS in order to try something else. And then I can't buy anything from vendors, gamble or trade currency. Or I can ofcourse ignore everything else that gold is meant to be used for, cutting myself off parts of the game.

[@Nonpain]

@@Altmer353before the nerf i used cast on ignite for my rapid fire merc-gemling for "supplementary damage" but now meta gems are just wasted skill slots and spirit they barely trigger at all and have high costs , so just using more auras is better 100% of the time , they could have removed meta gems entirely at this point since they are that useless now.

[@coopstain1728]

Dude why are you complaining? You know when EA is over that ALL of your characters are going to go "down the drain" and you will have to start all the way over? lol did you not think of that?

[@Altmer353]

@@Nonpain They are not useless. They are supplementary damage and you have nodes that give % to energy, taking those will make them a lot more effective. "cast on" was too powerful and trivialized content and it was so powerful that you dont even need to take energy nodes for, now they nerfed and if you want to have it in your repertuar you have to take proper nodes.

[@bloomleaf8310]

5:03 I agree they don’t want us to play that way but a lot of the map, mob and game design seems to expect that we are

[@Death_Lord_Eleressai]

Me: "Imagine thinking a dumbed-down mindless hack and slash action RPG is a hardcore RPG lol."

[@memoman29]

This was why they charged 30 dollars for early access. They knew if it was free to start, they would lose players at the start of season 1 with the changes from POE 1 to POE 2. So, they hyped it up big time without players realized the differences and grabbed 30 dollars from players who won't continue with the game.

[@piboy7454]

I don’t see that for 30 dollars I got one hell of a game to play that’s fun, challenging, and a bit unfair. Still enjoyed it quite a bit.

[@liarwithagun]

Not really. Jonathan in interviews basically said that PoE2 was Path of Dark Souls. So at least the slow pace and such were things I expected. What I find unacceptable is that they are still going half-and-half with their loot system, and making it worse than going fully in either direction, quantity or quality. They don't want massive quantity of drops, because they want every drop to matter, but drops are just as randomly bad or good as PoE1. They want people to pick up and craft items, but have low drop numbers (that are supposed to 'matter' but usually don't) and very little deterministic crafting. They have 'brick' modifiers like light radius that are not good on any build. None of these ideas by themselves are bad, but as they are not good all mixed together in their current form. The refusal to give higher quantities of drops (currency) with how random things are combined with the refusal to make actually good drops is really making the game very feast or famine. Especially on non-caster classes where their entire scaling is based off the weapon. And that isn't even getting into the fact that some entire synergy archtypes are just traps because they don't give them enough support, but that had the same problem in PoE1, and this is EA, so I'm not expecting that to ever get truly solved. Or at least, they aren't supported enough to 'beat' the game.

[@RaZeyLWindBladE]

​@liarwithagun I'd like to think right radius might go well with Paladin/Templar abilities. Maybe the amount of damage is done best with the amount of 'light' or maybe it's the aoe size. But it's still bricked 😂

[@TheAluvisify]

@@liarwithagun I mean, the game really doesn't feel like "Dark Souls" except maybe during some bosses in acts 1-3. Endgame mapping feels pretty damn similar to PoE1.

[@GrindinRyan]

Yeah... I guess I'm happy enough to pay $30 for the few days of fun, especially since I got a set of wings I wanted anyway xD But I'm not sure the vision of this game is something I want to spend a lot of time on league after league

[@noimnotnice]

The whole video is just another red herring about what the core community is talking about right now. The 'difficulty' being criticised has nothing to do with the combat itself (everybody praises the combat, so what are you on about). Instead mostly tedium and fixable problems: - We don't like that crafting is a complete lottery that an SSF experience is heavily hindered by. SSF is a completely viable playstyle in PoE1. - Crafting has been reduced to a hollow husk of what it is in PoE1. - We did not like having NO LOOT to craft with, which contradicted GGG's vision for players moving through campaign and into endgame. This has now been remedied. - The consequence: gear is unreliable to get on a fresh start, and content is overtuned for the level of power reliably attainable by players. - We do not like that the way to ascend is heavily gated behind half-baked, overtuned game mechanics with high RNG. Good of you to mention it. - We do not like astronomical respeccing costs. - We do not like having to walk around empty maps in search of the last remaining mechanics and rare monsters. - We do not like monsters at PoE1 speeds and attack ranges blasting our characters at PoE2 speeds in endgame maps. - We don't like the same braindead mechanics and lack of visual clarity of the old game: on death effects, invisible volatiles, mana and flask drain, etc. - Class balance. LMAO 404. There are only a few points in the direction you're claiming are the main divide: - Maps being a 1 portal enterprise. - Lack of 'brain-off' content to do as a relaxing alternative (I disagree, this exists already). - Builds too strong are getting the nerf-hammer too fast. - I really had to think for a while, but then this came to mind: build diversity was streamlined, so the craziest builds that veteran players can come up with, are more in line with the normal. Reasons: dumbed-down passive tree, few uniques, barely any chase uniques, no insane power on rare gear. Verdict: you are out of touch and this video is misdirection.

[@xbluemarinex]

100% this. Everything is half baked and tedious by their core design. GGG's vision for PoE2 is shit, people are huffing A-Grade copium if they think a lot of these things will change or get better in the near future.. Maybe in a couple of years the game will be in a fun state when the revenue is heavily under performing and their Chinese overlords step in and make them change these things.

[@GrindinRyan]

I agree with all your points here. Mapping feels bad to me and it's super obnoxious that my main concern during gameplay is try to avoid being surrounded by mobs in tiny spaghetti corridor layouts. I love POE because of the speed and mobility, and the way your performance steadily increases as you learn more about the game. Also I take back everything I ever said about Lab

[@aderan5011]

I would add that the campaign is too damn long. I can't see myself spending 20+ hours every new league running that slog. Also, dying resetting the entire zone, losing any drops currently on the ground is too punishing-- before they fixed dodge roll there were times where my character actually got bricked where it just kept getting respawned next to a bunch of swarming mobs, had to log out to respawn back in town and losing all check point progress.

[@nanonano2595]

@@GrindinRyan I cant believe I would ever miss lab this much

[@naruroGCS]

@@GrindinRyan if you love speed and mobility go play a fast game then, easy fix

[@Kekmit]

There are so many toxic players in the game right now. Every time I see some new player asking for help with their item/build or boss, most players just say "skill issue/git gud". And whenever I see this happen, I whisper and help them. Sometimes I even go to public parties where people typed, i.e "help me pls" and kill the hardest bosses for them. And I really hope that out of these hundreds of players I helped, at least a dozen of them will stay and play the game, even with these toxic players.

[@piboy7454]

I haven’t notice that personally, but I’m sure that happens. Luckily I had a helpful exile teach me about some of the mechanics of the game and much was cool. Will definitely stick around to see how this game develops.

[@Eametsa]

Did you asked ai to generate this?

[@xspindrift8737]

Yeah, most people in chat are not helpful. I had one person help me through my second ascendancy no problem when I asked for help.

[@CyprusStudios]

I've been playing PoE since closed beta, I'm an original Diamond supporter which puts me in a pretty small group. I think the pace of PoE2 feels much closer to the original PoE than anything it resembles now. Personally I'm loving the pace and difficulty, it's been a great and rewarding challenge. I'm only level 30 in the EA right now, things could change. But already several times the game has communicated to me what I need to change to beat a certain boss. Whether that's learning the rotation, or skill / gear changes.

[@mtgomage2703]

I stopped listening when he started talking about VPN

[@_Baleful]

It’s worth noting that the people on the extremes tend to be the loudest. I’m an avid PoE1 grinder but I’m loving PoE2 even more while still acknowledging its faults. Free respecs after nerfs should have been a no-brainer, why are GGG so quiet about it?

[@biggusy25]

Who cares? All of this is getting deleted on release anyway. Just pay some gold and respec your dang character..

[@mac19999x]

@@biggusy25 it will be deleted several times before release

[@biggusy25]

@@mac19999x Didn't know that! Thanks for the heads up 🙂

[@MantamannPOE]

I do kind of agree, but the framing here is kind of insane and blatant. "One group is people who don't enjoy the visiom right now and want things to be changed and one side is aggressive elitists who want to put them down and tell them they are just bad". Framing the problem like that is insane. Yes the game needs changes, some stuff already did get changed and more will come. But some points are simply invalid or many people disagree, that doesn't make them aggressive elitists. For example the Sanctum thing, it is perfectly fine to have Sanctum as one of the options to ascend. Because after all it's just an option you don't need to do it. The real problem with this is the third option isn't available yet and in my opinion they should all become available at the same time so you can choose which trial you want to take. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a filthy casual noob who just has skill issues, but also not everyone who disagrees with you is an aggressive elitist. You are framing the 'other group' just as much as youre criticizing them for doing the same with the whole skill issure thing.

[@Zyart]

I especially loved the "They need to shut up" part when referring to the "elitist" side. Like, it's okay for people whining for the sake of whining to be heard, but not for players who actually point out when a skill issue is actually a skill issue, not a game issue.

[@MantamannPOE]

@@Zyart Yeah telling people to just shut up isn't helping either. But I also don't think it has anything to do with a skill issue. I think it's simply that a lot of people try this game out that come either from Poe 1 and don't like the more challenging, slow and engaging combat because it forces them to pay attention. Which is a valid point, it is quite different from Poe 1. And new people that don't like the way this game works, the grinding, the RNG loot, etc. But to all of them it's not a skill issue it's simply that they maybe don't enjoy the fundamentals of the game. And that's fine, there are tons of games out there that are different. But a lot of other people love the way this plays, there are definitely things that will need some more work and adjusting. In the end it's an early access, a base that they can build upon and for that I think it's very good. Criticism is perfectly fine but people make everything sound so dramatic.

[@Zyart]

@@MantamannPOE There are definitely valid complaints. Nobody is arguing that. But there's a lot of screaming about "You need to think about casuals!" when someone splats themselves on a boss 37 times (actual example given by someone), and doesn't question what they're doing wrong. That's a skill issue. And those are the people that most of the "elitists" have beef with. Because to cater to those people would fundamentally destroy what the game is. You cannot change the game to help those people win. Even if you did, they lack the basic understanding to win.

[@noimnotnice]

The framing is re+arded and wrong. But clickbait and 'controversy' is this channel's bread and butter. I know why I stopped watching almost half a decade ago lol.

[@anonanon1604]

basically poe1 players wanted to keep screen clearing every 0.25s with their eyes closed while traveling at warp speed and everyone else is enjoying the more focused and thoughtful design

[@mazzith]

People need to remember this a head start beta. This is why we’ve had 13+ patches in 4 days.

[@sgnox7781]

Almost none of those patches addressed the core game design people are having issues with, also most of those patches just brick players builds.

[@StarPhoenix960]

showing Global chat in this video is a crime punishable by death.

[@AljazO-r3h]

GGG really spent 12 years making the most in-depth crafting system I've ever seen, just to completely gut it and go back to slam currency and pray. Which could be ok, were currencies common. - one attempt per base - alterations and scour orbs not existing (the reforging bench can eat ass) - extremely limited alchemy orbs - alchemy shards not existing Those are honestly my only real gripes with the game, but I do play ssf, so I can't comment on the trading part of the game. The game honestly isn't hard, it's just a combination of unforgiving, limited resources and RNG, a lot of RNG. You can hit maps and instantly pick up a mid tier weapon that will get you going, or you could be like some of us that are still using their level 38, 300pdps 2h mace, in maps. As for elitists...I believe anyone who has played PoE1 for a decent amount of time can predict that PoE2 will have the worst elitists ever. PoE1 global 1 is a cesspool, PoE2 global 1 is a sewage treatment plant.

[@mac19999x]

You are the sewage. This is an early access. The purpose is to fine tune the game. Why are you losing your mind over the in development game not being polished in the polishing phase? No one will treat you seriously if you behave like a spoiled child.

[@Blakkrazor69]

Paid for early access but know enough about games to wait a few weeks before playing. There will be balancing and changes and there's no reason to rush in and invest time into something I regret. Patience and Common Sense are virtues that may as well be Unicorns in modern humans.

[@GrindinRyan]

I don't disagree broadly with your statement, but I'm not sure about implying that it's "common sense" to not play a game when it comes out, I've been doing that for 30+ years with no issues

[@Blakkrazor69]

@@GrindinRyan Oh? Every game you've played has released with no bugs, no issues, no reworks? Good for you. I used to enjoy games that wasy until about a decade or so ago when everything started to release with Day 1 patches. Quality of games from all studios is suspect because quality of all humans is suspect.

[@Suprentus]

Why are all your takes always "there are two sides, they're both wrong, and I'm right?"

[@Fantastic_Mr_Fox]

It's more like 'there are two extremes, don't be fooled into thinking either is acceptable'

[@Suprentus]

@@Fantastic_Mr_Fox This is a noticeable pattern with this channel whenever there is an issue with any hint of divisiveness. It's short fat otaku levels of "but muh both sides" argumentation.

[@xtopher174]

I don't think it's true but if it is why do you want to watch slop content that just reiterates whatever that's already been said?

[@Suprentus]

@@xtopher174 What? Do you think you have a copy of my watch history or something?

[@softan]

​@@Suprentus People often end up in two polarized camps online, and both can sometimes lean toward exaggeration or selective arguments. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle, as the world is rarely black and white.

[@WPharolin]

The truth is that most players have no idea that this "war" is even happening.

[@davidm6329]

As someone who thought PoE2 was going to be a clone of the first game, this is actually really good news to me. The "shut your brain off and grind for 1 million items you'll have to sort through for a .5% upgrade" of the first game is what really turned me off. It felt more like a mobile game, ie: a game that has no "gameplay". The new direction is much more up my alley.

[@nicopootato2330]

I don't think POE1 players would be upset at POE2 if POE2 didn't take away the dev resources, POE2 killed POE1. POE1 players have no where to go if they don't like POE2.

[@XBluDiamondX]

Not sure about that statement. Developing a game requires resources. Where do you think GGG can pull resources out of their ass to make it?

[@colto2312]

@@XBluDiamondX get investors and start up a new division like every other corporation

[@GrindinRyan]

True, current league is going to be from July to February, with the consolation private league meant to buy time bringing back the awful Lantern of Alinor, bringing back the tedious clicking before every map and destroying the economy with the Chaos Orb farming nonsense. Thanks, I hate it

[@sgnox7781]

@@XBluDiamondX Those devs are being taking away from working on poe1 (game theyu want to play) to develop poe2 (game they dont wanna play) current leageu is like 9 months cycle instead of regular 4 etc

[@xTazerTx]

The biggest problem I encounter in poe2 as an elitist is Jonathan promised us that the skills trees wouldn't be dumb down and will have as much depth as poe1 and that they finally made crafting enjoyable yet I cannot see the depth in this tree sure taking out the life of it is good for new player is good but those nodes are just bland fr like at least ort the masteries in And crafting it has never been in a worst state ever in poe1 sure you can guaranty 3 affix but after that your item is essentially bricked Also not a fan of the maps but considering they've only been on it for 6 month I ll wait

[@newvocabulary]

We were certainly lied to.

[@Kratos263]

Well to be fair the skill tree isn't complete right now. There are missing nodes as well as placeholder nodes, probably because not all classes are out yet

[@xTazerTx]

@@Kratos263 the entire tree is lacking in depth it's not just a couple of starting that's gonna make a difference the entire essence of the game has been dumb down and even tho ggg explicitly told us that they kept has much depth as in poe1 it is just not true

[@leEvilIdiot]

@@xTazerTx My god, use punctuation. Use dots please.

[@xTazerTx]

@@leEvilIdiot ain't gonna happen 💀 pointless and doesn't even make an argument better L take 💀

[@addidaswguy]

Also I am SOO sick of "gamees" who use being good(or in a lot of cases just finding ways to cheese) as an extension of their personalities. Games are for entertainment, being good at a game, no MATTER how hard it is, does not make you a better person(and a lot of you are sh**ty people with how behave and talk to people), doesn't boost you in ANY way. Just because a few people on Twitter will fluff you for it, doesn't mean anything. Being good at a video game is fun, it's cool to talk to your friends about it, but using it in that way and talking down to other people makes you a terrible person to talk to or be around, and I doubt a lot of these people have many real friends.

[@sgnox7781]

Also none of those game are ever that hard anyway, most anyone can beat them it just take a little extra time, comp games are to express how good are you at games rather then single player ones

[@evalinor]

I just can't understand, what have they been doing for 5 years? Half of the Ascendancy is still missing, no swords, no spears, no endgame, only half of the acts, a very questionable passive skill tree, no balance, the trial is unbalanced garbage. How much brain do you need to play the second part? It's just stupid, when you have 2 thousand damage, and the boss has two hundred thousand health - this is not a skill-dependent game, it's stupidity. Just run the ruthless mode in poe1 and you will get the same experience as poe2. poe2 is the ruthless mode from the first part, but with new graphics, that's all.

[@mr.redskull2239]

Shouldnt it be easy and maybe fair for the early Access Players when they would implement a System where you can reskill your Character with an 48 hours cooldown timer, i mean you could test everything better.

[@mac19999x]

...then everyone will have the exact same build.

[@Goldy01]

@@mac19999x nope, that's projection.