The Politics of Redemption

[@kerycktotebag8164]

Maybe redemption should center the people hurt, since they're the ones who ultimately should decide to let someone in

[@SpoopySquid]

Your videos are amazing. Keep up the great work

[@gardensystem7497]

amazing video, like always

[@metalgamer21]

Great video. It disturbs me how so many leftists are concerned with deradicalizing people with horrible beliefs when there are so many other people, especially marginalized people, we could be supporting and reaching out to instead.

[@apteropith]

yeah, pretty much; well said, good framing

[@numlockryt]

most of the time, on twitter, the people who tweet out stuff about "not forgiving former reactionaries," (imo which isn't necessarily a bad thing i think who you forgive is ultimately up to you, and not wanting to forgive and/or not forgiving former nazis is justified), but the problem is that most of these tweets are often attacking those who choose to forgive them, so trying to present this as "the evil 'former' reactionaries are attacking people for not forgiving ex-nazis" is disingenuous.

[@IconforShort]

my only substantive response to this (because asking for citations feels more pedantic than anything) is to say that choosing to forgive someone for their previous actions doesn’t suddenly mean that their entitlement is therefore erased, and it doesn’t mean their current actions can’t be understood in context of their past. it’s fine if an individual marginalized person can look past the history of a particular individual for their own reasons, but the broader argument that I was aware of (which I provide multiple examples of) was of white entitlement in leftist spaces. since this reproduces, or at least works to reproduce, white supremacist structures within leftist communities, and some leftists being mad at former reactionaries has no institutional backing to any significant degree, I think prioritizing the dismantling of white supremacy in our conversations is more important than providing a false sense of balance by focusing on outliers whose actions have no notable repercussions.

[@prog8454]

While I do agree the left definitely needs to platform more marginal voices, I find this video frustrating because the most prominent figures advocating this idea of deradicalizing are Hasan piker, a Turkish Muslim man, and contrapoints, a trans woman, who also discuss the systematic issues that this video claims they ignore and they are definitely not targeting neo-nazis. Granted I can think of so-called leftist communities like the workerists at stupidpol that are doing what this video is talking about, I wish this video was more precise in its critiques rather than vague assertions

[@IconforShort]

if you want an example or two, I can offer you Xanderhal, a “former” Nazi streamer who has platformed a white nationalist and promoted her book, and Vaush, a nominally leftist streamer who discusses leftist tactics and optics quite frequently, who has stated that black nationalism is equivalent to white nationalism and refuses to listen to people’s corrections of his grossly inaccurate and ahistorical claims about black revolutionary movements in general. hopefully that offers something a bit more concrete for you. and just to be clear, the two people you listed as examples of prominent leftists advocating deradicaization are a white streamer (who is a Turkish Muslim, but is white nonetheless, he has recognized himself as such in the past) and a white trans woman (who, based on the beliefs she espouses, is not actually a leftist at all, considering she supports electoral politics as a primary method of political engagement, shows skepticism and apprehension toward revolutionary movements, frequently questions leftist class analysis and material analysis, and baselessly claims that communist revolutionaries are fueled by jealousy of the rich). that’s not really a counterpoint so much as a confirmation of what I said, which is that deradicalization occupies the attention of white leftists online. Contrapoints in specific is an odd example to offer, considering she talks quite often about online “mob outrage” in her work and on her twitter, something I specifically discuss in this video.

[@prog8454]

@@IconforShort I have nothing to say about the two neo-mutualists. Hasan said that he was white-passing, white to a point, when. When he discusses issues like the racist treatment of religious minorities in America, the treatment of immigrants in America, Israel-Palestine, or American foreign policy in general, again systematic issues you said that should be discussed on the left, they don't see him as white and he receives racist comments. And your arguments against contrapoints is purity politics through and through yeah entryism is bullshit that will only save the center from itself and Harringtonism should be thrown into the dustbin of history but disregarding contra's experience being trans and the genuine bigotry she had been thrown at the cause of her lib takes seems antithetical to this video's message

[@IconforShort]

@@prog8454 Hasan is targeted by islamophobia, yes, I don’t see how this contradicts anything I said. if you think Contrapoints is a leftist, I don’t really know what to say, we can agree to disagree i guess. she pretty obviously doesn’t believe that leftist class analysis is accurate, she has said so multiple times in videos spanning several years, which seems like it pretty solidly disqualifies her from being a leftist. she has also made it clear that she doesn’t think revolutionary movements are realistic, which is just factually wrong and completely counter to much of leftist theory, much of which explicitly states the need for at least some form of revolution. not sure how much clearer it could be. believe what you want, but I’ll take her at her word if you don’t mind. regardless, I fail to see what the relevance of any of this is to the overall point of the video.