The Premium Problem | War Thunder

[@Emorejets]

Gaijin spends more money on psychologists then on developers. Gotta make it as addictive as possible.

[@Ballistics_Computer]

Wonder if they could spare one to talk me through my crippling depression

[@pewnews6935]

LITERALLY. I hate wt but I can’t stop playing it

[@charliezw3287]

Almost they like ring a bell everytime we get a kill

[@mikebauer6917]

I wager they pair psych with machine learning to algorithmically tweak your game to maximize spending.

[@jayklink851]

A PHD candidate did their dissertation on War Thunder's effect on brain chemistry; I'm sure you could find it if you looked. Anyhow, they found that WT releases the same endorphins that high stakes gambling does. Degenerate War Thunder players, sounds about right, huh? *Probably more so in Air RB. Occasionally, the reaction between a pilot getting killed, and a guy losing half a months salary, can have the same reaction. That being, go **** yourself, and my personal favorite, "I hope your family dies in a car crash!"

[@wirelessmouse9579]

You could probably buy the F-14 module for DCS World, a good HOTAS and head tracking, then memorize the 600 page flight manual, and it would take you less time and money than getting the F-14 in War Thunder.

[@jucaesar4961]

That is probably true. If you were to work in the time you would otherwise grind in WarThunder, you would probably even come out with a positive money balance.

[@barca227bc3]

Hell yea. I play il2 more because I prefer props but it's way better

[@spartanx9293]

Issue is DCs is not the type of gameplay I want I like War thunder's mix of arcade and realism I just wish it wasn't run by gaijin

[@brandonroberts1531]

I have the f 14 in dcs and it’s a very good plane not a good starter plane though. But much better experience than grinding through war thunder

[@wirelessmouse9579]

@@spartanx9293 I like War Thunder's mix of arcade and realism too. It's actually more realistic than DCS in some ways. I have a full time job and other interests competing for my time and attention. I wish I could just pop into War Thunder for a few hours on the weekends and have fun flying top tier jets, but that's never going to happen. Unless I buy a premium jet.

[@someguy7629]

I liked the B-17, before it disintegrated each time an enemy looked at it.

[@Leonidae]

B-17 and B-24 used to survive German 30mill hits from 262 and 229 until bombers got turned into glass due to fighter noobs crying.

[@yowtfputthemaskbackon9202]

kinda goes for a lot of bombers, i realy just fly them in private matches anymore because some of them fall apart at the mere suggestion of bullets.

[@Mystic-Midnight]

Now the he 111 is the flying fortress

[@Hazztech]

Yep

[@ThomasFarquhar2]

Nowadays, the B-17 doesn't even need to be shot to be taken down, just open your canopy and yell "BULLET" out a megaphone and it'll drop immediately

[@janomomo153]

There is something about the whole Gaijin is a buisness argument that rubs me the wrong way. Every company wants to make profit, but somehow, miraculously, very few of them have to actively make their games worse wherever they can to do so

[@epicbanana4317]

Very true, companies can make money without damaging their customers brains. Usually the ones that make money without bullying it's (f2p) playerbase have the best games. Part of the problem is that Gaijin has basically a monopoly in this genre. If you dont like it, what else are you going to play? If you don't like call of duty there are tons of other fps games to try. If you don't like a certain restaurant you can get your food elsewhere. Not with War Thunder. As the saying goes, a good product sells itselfs. And I feel companies should invest in making their games this way and not bully their players into buying premium stuff.

[@jonse5a]

@@epicbanana4317 Yep, and the biggest reason I've never put any money into the game is because of the way Gaijin gamify the playerbase.

[@Spcwes1]

@@LordTomi2011 the problem with this theory/opinion is actually easy. If they did everything right in your eyes they would make 10 other people mad because they didn’t agree. They won’t get it right for everyone, only the ones who agree with the changes made or the model they use. I have “paid” for games since games were available. Thinking that something is truly free is a broken concept and people need to wake up. Nothing is free. The A10 and Su didn’t “break” the game, it changed the game. People get comfortable and don’t like change. Gaijin changing stuff in this game isn’t new at all and has been pretty consistent.

[@mikebauer6917]

It’s a terrible business model for a lot of gaming companies. Frankly it’s a casino owner’s dream where they can manipulate and twist the outcomes to maximize the chances of provoking an expenditure. So, maybe a couple of great games owing you to being put into a match on the side most likely to win, and don’t fool yourself with all the player data they have they can accurately predict match outcomes, so now maybe your in the mood for that premium or some cami or decal? Next let’s push you into a series of bad matches to see that will stress you into shelling out for some modules or a premium? If Gaijin doesn’t do this they should call me; we’ll make a fortune.

[@Spcwes1]

@@mikebauer6917 not sure if you just don’t like it or if you honestly think it’s a bad business model.

[@EdibleRockingChair]

I feel like the premium issue mostly comes from BR compression. If they set up time period realistic BRs, you'd still have some issues with planes being outclassed (because that's history), but you'd at least avoid the issue of missile moving premiums absolutely stomping planes that have no way to defend themselves when they'd never see those planes to begin with. I could be talking out of my ass, but that's how I see the issue

[@HalIOfFamer]

Screw compression honestly. I'd rather wait 4 minutes for a game where I get to play for 10 than wait a minute for a game I play for 3 because my plane is slower, climbs slower, can't turn as fast and doesn't have homing missiles. I Just grinded out early jets, and I honestly don't know if I wanna play when even my ho229 is being matched against planes that have missiles already.

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

@@HalIOfFamer oh, at ho229 br you can face only aim-9b(it’s the easiest missile to dodge), the main problem starts at 10.0-10.3 where every game you play against minimum 50% of enemy team filled with planes armed with 2nd and 3rd generation missiles like 9g, 9l, nord20, r60m etc and have flares while you have only almost useless 9b, r-3s etc and have no flares.

[@HalIOfFamer]

@@СергейНикольский-я2ц yeah now that I fly 9.0+ I get that, honestly decompression is badly needed because there are planes in the tech tree that badly need a higher br but at the same time of they get bumped by even .3 they will suck and be useless.

[@СергейНикольский-я2ц]

@@HalIOfFamer you’re absolutely right) I think the only way to fix it is to making games by equal br, but the price will be our time

[@nichendrix]

I totally agree with the historical accurate BR brakets

[@imainhunter]

i have an idea that came to my mind months ago, about fixing rank 6 BR compression. Basically Gaijin has two options: 1. Decompress the BR so that non-flare aircrafts don't face modern missiles. gaijin could also make BR range for aircrafts depending on 'air RB' load out( example: A-10 with aim 9l+ other stuff is 10.3, A-10 with maverick only is 9.7 or smth, A-10 clean is 9.0). what are the chance that this gets implemented? very slim, mainly because this would make tech tree A-10's( or other planes) stock grind much easier and we now gaijin doesn't want that 2. Full send it, make rank 6 9.3-10.3 full of missile(

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Yeah, you fell yourself not flying Mig19, but trying to fight a dark solus boss

[@ayylmao2689]

you forgotten the favorite third, which is doing fuck all and let it be the way it is

[@Musicguy8260]

As someone has been playing worth under free years I still have yet to get a jet and it seems like I will have to play for about 10 years to get them so I will never get any jets unless I pay money :(

[@sekutard5157]

I miss the sabre man so bad!

[@sekutard5157]

I miss the sabre man so bad!

[@theduke7539]

I cant even play my B29 anymore because I just run into SU11s. The 262 used to be my worst fear, but the 262's terrible climb rate means that by the time a 262 can get to my altitude, ive already dropped my payload and have turned for base. A SU11 can cross the map and engage me at 5,000 meters before I have even reached the first bombing point

[@Qdiglet]

I think another thing to look at is the current issue of premium creep, even within premium vehicles there's an issue of planes becoming unplayable. The Milan for example was a favorite of mine at 9.7 before the su-25 spam, it's completely worthless at the moment. There are absolutely a fair amount of players who have bought something like the Milan, or the Su-7bmk or whatnot (there's a lot!) and now basically cannot use their purchase. Knowing how even the paying players are being given the boot, I doubt a lot of these people are going to buy another premium plane knowing how they've been treated the last time they opened their wallets. It should be in gaijins best interest to keep players who have already proven to open their wallet to continue to do so, and yet it is clearly not. Current profits over long time recurring revenue once again imo.

[@devvy_01]

My problem with premiums is not how balanced they are but rather when a level 5 takes a premium Su 25 or some other top tier vehicle into a battle when they have no idea what to do with them. I still believe that no premium should be higher than rank 5

[@antccx]

Atleast rank 30

[@SirCabooseCCCP]

I feel like they should only be allowed a premium one rank higher at most

[@SuperFronky]

most jet pilots don't know how to fly regardless of premium or no premium💁‍♂️🤣😂😂😂

[@emmano6340]

@@SirCabooseCCCP That's actually a pretty good idea

[@ISt0leYaCheese]

​@@SuperFronky nah that's only usa

[@House_of_Schmidt]

It always seems like premium vehicles are undertiered by 0.3 BR. Not all of them but some of them for sure. I'd rather they kept the gameplay balanced and significantly cut or eliminated premium repair cost.

[@michaelmarciano7064]

what Gajin really needs to do is bring back events like Flight of the Swallows,(for those that even played the game way back then yall remember how fun that shit was) the only way to get that realistic match up of aircraft (historical so like 109G-K and P51 D) is to play SIM which is very underated btw sim with a good set up is a lot of fun, but i think adding like a monthly RB event that was historically accurate would scratch the itch for the people looking for the authentic historical matchups

[@TheBrDeath]

was that the one that was supposed to be p51 vs me262, and could have been fun as there were more americans vs few german planes but they allowed b17s in so it completely ruined it?

[@inconspicuous8475]

Thank you for making a reasonable video bringing this much discussed topic to light. I think though what is often overlooked is the reason for Gaijins highly aggressive monetisation efforts - it's not just that they are a business but that they are in fact a monopolist provider - there simply is no substitute or direct competitor to War Thunder. Gaijin knows this and can therefor get away with actions like compromising an entire BR range purley for profit reasons (of course I am talking about 9.3 - 10.3 AIR and the dozens of undertiered premiums there) - There are numerous other examples like this. This is also the reason why argueably the improvement in quality of WT has been stagnating for the past few years ...

[@ANVILD3VIL]

i think one reason why high BRs premiums are also so popular is because they are almost the only planes that allow you to make SL

[@kazuviking]

Quite the opposite, high br is just a moneysink for 90% of players.

[@OneAngryVelociraptor]

@@kazuviking Unless you are using a premium aircraft.

[@HIFLY01]

I think its to grind. Got 60k RP in the a10 with a 500% booster and got 1 kill and 12 ground kills. Its stupidly easy compared to ground grinding

[@TheBrDeath]

theres also something fuckey with rank 6+ RP and inefficient research going on that may explain it. a rank 3 premium researching a rank 5 jet is out of its rank1-4 efficient research bracket but you still get SOME RP when you grind a rank 5 with a rank 3. but using a rank 4 prem/talisman gets you peanuts when going that same +1 over your inefficient research bracket. a rank4 prem gets close to nothing when researching a rank 6. you're practically required to have a high rank prem/talisman to grind high tier rp and without a premium account it needs to be a prem plane for you to break even on credits let alone grind them to buy what you're researching as you said.

[@Viviana088]

@@kazuviking I can confirm, recently I finally became one of the 10% of players that can make SL at top tier. But before that I'd loose so much SL before I learned how to be better.

[@gamerhoodmb2095]

Gaijin could also go up to 15.0 with the current vehicles and aircraft and push everything to its real place. Then there would be enough gabs between for example MiG-15s and A-10s

[@BiggestMarph]

Do the "Boost up-tiering" problem next. Allegedly, When using any substantial boost above 150%, the game throttles your SL/RP earning potential. I digress. This was a reasonable analysis of the game. It's fun at low tier. As you progress up the BRs it gets more and more sweaty. But honestly its a FTP game so I'm not surprised. There's a level of slime all FTP must contend with. The business model for War Thunder and Enlisted alike in my opinion are slimey after the initial onboard phase of gameplay (6-10 hours).

[@hungryhedgehog4201]

Even if these vehicles would be the most balanced thing ever the amount of them means that even though this game has hundreds of vehicles you are gonna see the same few over and over. Especially higher up.

[@Feyser1970]

were

[@HJGBAMA]

Nice video bro, looks like the most effort you’ve put into a video, enjoyed it

[@timauthee861]

Guided missiles ruined custom battles. Like you can spawn with a prop plane and have an unavoidable missile shot at you.

[@Karter_Blackpaw]

Things were relatively alright when the A10 was out as me and a friend would do air arcade at 9.7 while he was stuck with 8.0 British stuff since most people just don't know how to play the A10 and would just rush blindly or be completely oblivious to what's around them, so it was still doable. But now that the Su25 has been introduced, I can't bring him to 9.7 matches anymore since it's becoming nothing but high-tier missile spam from A10's and Su25's the whole time. The BR's need to be extended to maybe 15 or something so we can get some relative stability back and not be utterly destroyed before we can do anything.

[@cloroxbleach9222]

Don't forget the Ju-288 and F2G-1 has almost permanently broken the 6.0 air RB balance

[@sparkling925]

Also dont forget the xp50 and wyverns destroying new players at 4.0

[@dutch24]

"None of these aircraft have flares" (Cries in F-4C)

[@zelands]

I remener the days when premiums were just your regular tech tree vehicles, but with a perk like a unique camouflage. And with money and RP biists that premium has. Now it has become pay to win

[@surrealsupercell7217]

1st reason is so true, I ended giving up on the horrendous grind to jets and just bought premium jets. No way in hell I was gonna waste hours of my life doing gaijin's horrendous grind anymore. I sincerely wish they just made a second game dedicated to modern stuff

[@nichendrix]

Or just sort ayers the game into game modes that are more hisstorically accurate.

[@HIFLY01]

The problem with the su25 and a10 is they're balance around ground units. If they separate the BRs from ground and air like RB vs AB, some planes would be much easier to balance. The A2D1 is a pretty good example of that where RB its BR is 7.0 but arcade its 9.0. Its not because they're premium but because they still haven't done anything to separate the ground BRs and air BRs

[@krzysztofbroda5376]

This is the most intelligent proposition so far

[@derkaiser9881]

@@krzysztofbroda5376 You're giving him far too much credit. I've heard that suggestion 100 times. And it's mid.

[@XionXIV243]

Me trying to fly my Hunter Eneamy team... all SU-25K mostly level 14 players, 6 all aspect missiles coming at me all at once

[@meth9654]

All at once hmmmm gay

[@255omega9]

Tbh i think that everyone should be able to buy a 3 day test drive for any premium that they want to purchase. But make it like 20% of the normal cost so if u feel like you dont want it after 3 days gajin still makes money but if you want it you just pay the other 80% and then gaijin made as much as they would normally. And this should ofc be a one time thing per vehicle

[@crumbum2]

All of your comments are valid for those of us who play WW2 vehicles too, not just top tier battles. And because they keep lowering the BR for 'tanks' that use missiles, I have been pushed back to below 4.0 BR.

[@Number1sineaterfan]

As a player that's been playing for I think less than a month now I agree with a lot of the things in this video my friend who has like 5,000 hours in it instructed me to never buy a premium vehicle until I can do something with it I got it advertised to me as a cool game where I can fly around an F-14 among other things and then I got it and played it for a few hours with my friend and realized that flying is a lot harder than it looks and I don't want to put in a thousand hours for an F-14 I'm hoping that they make a new tree maybe with modern aircraft for their 10th anniversary so people who get advertised awesome jets don't have to play pre-World War II aircraft

[@Kaiser_Kenny]

Dude that Frankie video is what got me to get the game. That had to be like 8 years ago now man.

[@wintersal449]

The premium British Harrier with SRAAMS was a perfect example of the premium problem back when it was 9.0

[@stevenhussey9228]

I massively agree with u and premium planes are a whole lot different then the normal tree I just wish they were able to fix the premium planes to be like the normal line

[@loc1123]

FIX? this is on purpose... remember when they added av8a? 8.3-8.7 jets became instantly unplayable and still is today. they do it with every new premium.

[@barca227bc3]

I don't get how no one hasn't notice the gaijin premium model. Make op premium for x nation then when the sales die down give the nation they face a premium counter to it. People rush buy that. And repeat

[@ISt0leYaCheese]

​@@barca227bc3 everyone's know it

[@user-anon]

I think a even bigger problem is the lack of ammoracks and spall in Russian tanks and the fact that besides Russia and a few other countries like Britain and Japan the tanks are out of date like the m1a2 from 1989

[@jonathanjuwainat5535]

It’s not a bug, it’s a feature. Russian ammo doesn’t explode anymore and they have a tank produced in 2018 with gen 3 thermals while the US is stuck with the original M1A2 with Minecraft graphics for the thermals. There needs to be all M1A2s until SEPV3, and the US Bradley needs it’s ERA and TOW-2A. Blatant russian bias, they’re not even trying to hide it. Anyoo ok me who disagrees is a shill.

[@user-anon]

@@jonathanjuwainat5535 they need to fix the tow2b because 4 shots or more most times to kill from the top is bs and the magic ghost shells in the side of Russian tanks is also dumb af the Stryker with a javelin mounted on top would be cool but I feel like a even better vehicle would be the humvee with the javelin and thermals basically a weisel for USA

[@roberteubank8240]

Ive had this game since like 2013.. have not played that whole time but god dang it takes forever to get anywhere, when I started you just had to go down a single line in tech tree now you have to buy 4 in a tier.. jesus it is forever. especially in ships. the grind is forever.

[@tomsmith7207]

Blame repair costs… because damn is it punishing in air rb.

[@cjsf92]

Definitely this! Some of my favourite planes are almost unplayable because of the repair costs. The Sabre and Thunderchief for example. If I get shot down in the Thunderchief (F105), even if I've gotten two kills, and with premium time, I still make a loss

[@noir8945]

Easy fix for the Missiles: u get the Aim9L (or any other toptier missile) Module, your plane is uptiered to 11.0. Players will not install it to get their groundstriker a lower BR for Ground RB, and those who do will fight Toptier. Premiums also hurt Groundforces, as players without skill run 1 tank lineups and die without archieved anything, pulling down the own team.

[@jetstreamsam8471]

11.0 for an aim9l thats crazy😭

[@ImAFatCheezIt]

I hope we can get a mode for just grinding with premiums and a BR-split. I've been playing the Su-25 TT and even while stock, it's incredibly OP. It should be 10.0-10.3.

[@rifwann]

But then they'll suffer against 11.0-11.3. But if they dont 8.7 will suffer. The only answer are br decompression.

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@rifwann Yeah, they already done this before, why not try again?

[@derkaiser9881]

The Su-25 is garbage stock. All that has to happen is you fight a single competent F5C player and you lose. Every single plane at that BR can latch onto your six and air break for a guaranteed free kill. The ONLY thing that makes the Su-25 worthy of 9.7 is its missiles and flares. That's it. The gun is nice, it accelerates well, but it's just not 9.7 material without those missiles. Gaijin kinda put it in a shitty situation where it's too garbage to be 10.0 or 10.3, but if they take off the missiles it'll be free food for anything below 9.7.

[@rifwann]

@@derkaiser9881 why f5c, its whole br upward.. try another 9.7 and 9.0 su25 has better acceleration than everything except mig which is russian mind you. Which mean you are stuck bnz and getting r60mk instead

[@derkaiser9881]

@@rifwann Because if you've ever played the Su-25 you'd know that you're NEVER down tiered. I played it maybe 60 matches and had 0. And "BnZ" doesn't exist with jets in 9.7 games unless every Harrier or A5C in that match is dead.

[@gabrielbentley9061]

Props and jets need to be on two separate trees. Like ships.. coastal and blue water

[@Spcwes1]

Most of the issues concerning premiums is you have to pay for them. Some of them have issues with balance period, there is no way not to (A10 - Su25) because of obvious reasons. I have played for thousands of hours and I have zero issue with the premium vehicles at all. 9 out of 10 games have to be paid for to play, nothing is free. The A10 and SU25 couldn't compete PERIOD in ARB unless it has these missiles. Decent players have no issues with these missiles, either stay away from them or dive on them, SUPER SIMPLE. Having new players (even new players with zero skill) improve match making which is already fked due to the BR issues. There is nothing bad having new players in matches, even those who suck.

[@SilentButDudley]

I just hate how inaccessible the event vehicles are. They should be much less of a grind to get, and they can extend the grind period and make it more casual. Having both premiums AND event vehicles being either expensive as hell or inaccessible, it ruins the game.

[@donutg4mer780]

As a person who spaded the j32b during the aim 9L spam it was pain

[@admiral_alman8671]

Su-11s are the only planes that I struggle to energy trap in a literal rocket glider

[@ISt0leYaCheese]

u shouldn't

[@sparkling925]

think of them like f2gs these fuckers have power for days, just dont bother either boom and zoom or dogfight if you can

[@jager2337]

As someone who has played the game since it came out…. Missiles were the worst thing ever added, if they made a missile only que for air and ground tv I wouldn’t have an issue but as you said my favorite planes like the sabres are just useless now and it disappoints me heavily that they didn’t think about that as an option

[@Zack-oh8cy]

Man the amount of matches I stand nearly zero chance as a Mig15Bis is wild. You're so right

[@twiddydinks7938]

5:15 that's how *most* businesses work. My favorite game publishers, New Blood and Coffee Stain, both put making a good game at the top of their list while still making good profit

[@AbuctingTacos]

I kept seeing ads from my favorite history youtubers so I downloaded it. That was a mistake but I'm too far down the rabbit hole now

[@blooeagle5118]

Honestly I feel like a Historic match ups mode would allow players to fly Spitties v Messerschmitts, P51 v 190's, Sabres v Migs and so on, those would be ridiculously more fun to play if we have a pure dogfighting mode using historical situations and vehicles, but will gaijin listen to us? Fuuuuuuck no. I only want to be able to return to the Sabre v Mig dogfights from years ago on War Thunder. It's a travesty that they've mad 9.0an absolute fucking joke.

[@Rm-mz5cn]

Its one of the most advanced free to play games premiums makes sense

[@QuanDariusDingleBingleNut]

You are right it took me 5 years to get to top tier jets on JUST the USA without premium time and premium aircraft and at the time I was really young and didn’t get to play a lot

[@shadowninja8011]

I think the premium issue is much more applicable to the lower tiers where the premiums cause massive leaps between the skill floor and skill ceilings. Like I’m sure there’s plenty of nuance using missiles but, I don’t think it’s nearly the same as understanding every inch of your aircraft and what it’s able to do with the war birds of the 40s. (I’m also biased ive always found missile combat boring as hell, like oh look missile lock *click*) But in the lower tiers especially when you combine premiums with full uptiers it shifts the balance so much it’s low key overpowered. Like the JU 288. You have to intercept it and kill it in one pass. Next to no aircraft can keep up with the damn thing not to mention its borked turret. Many examples of this but that was was off the top of my hesd

[@katsu6934]

my main pet peeve is in tanks where if you shill out your wallet you know look exactly like the forest covered in foliage with a forest camo

[@33Verst]

The only thing i like about premium vehicles, is that i can test drive them. Im in the WW2 era tank tree but with premium vehicles i can get the taste of top tier.

[@bubsy3861]

Main point about that planes like A 10 it’s that they have that br to sell up to players that have premium tank. A lot of people don’t even care about tree in general. They buy a tank to play it and plane to revenge it. Make BR high and it’s lost “setup” factor that cut sales hard as fuck.

[@miniyoukid]

personally i think they need to split games into historical eras, like cold war vs cold war, and ww2 vs ww2 maybe split into early and late halves of the war. if they do that i think it would make the game more balanced and fun for people.

[@La_baguette_francaise]

no because for exemple , a maus has nothing to do agaisnt jumbos , or EBR's 1951 agaisnt T10M

[@founderoftheempire8589]

Also the premiums seem to be getting shittier and shittier in quality as of lately. The new Leopard 2A4 for example, its quite literally just the 2A4 in every single teeny tiny aspect but it has really bad camo netting on it. Gaijin is just putting less effort into them, also like you mentioned people will have to buy a premium vehicle if they even want to get absolutely anywhere, I had to buy one because I always get into deadlocks at around 4-5.0 in the countries I play in

[@LateDude96]

It's the same in World of Tanks. Had a game where 27/30 tanks were premiums in a tier 8 game.

[@nopifogo]

It's not possible now with how the game is set up, but an early solution to premium jets would have been to separate the trees completely, much the same way coastal and bluewater is is. Have Props and a jets be their own 'game' basically. A lot of folks (myself included) just want to fly jets against other jets. By starting off with these two different research trees, we could have had much more in depth BRs for them and made the strong premiums feel better (hopefully) with BR ranges that made more sense, in addition to less people buying these overly strong jets, since early jets would be so much easier to unlock.

[@last_dutch_hero258]

Tbh, Gaijn is even comprimising game playability lately. The game has become a 50/50 for me if i either get a good match or end up in a DDOS’d lobby… If only i had the money and wits to set up a competator to War Thunder…

[@bayonets_already_fixed2856]

The need of having to put money in is so outrageously great that as a player who spent 75+hrs in mostly air and tank battles (I don’t do naval since I actually touch grass) it feels depressing seeing how I am still in the ww2 era of game and since I refuse to give any money for pay to win I have two options 1. Grinding 2. Giving money to a company that won’t even let me open the special loot boxes that I “EARNED”without having to spend money on keys in the marketplace that cannot be earned.

[@Aurik-Kal-Durin]

Gaijin needs to make a new game. They could make a single-player focused _Ace Combat_ style spin-off, wet in World War II, using their existing assets on the War Thunder engine, and they would make a killing for very little investment. Especially if they simplified the controls to be in line with _Ace Combat 7's_ "Default" controls (which allow you to steer your plane using just the one thumbstick) which would make it more accessible, and thus draw in more players.

[@Yuubari_]

As someone who has been playing since 2013, it just feels like war thunder has taken a turn for the worse when it comes to the premium vehicles, it used to be mostly unique, special or planes created by players that were added as prems which performed comparable to TT planes comparing to now how you can just slap your cc on the table and get amazing planes at questionable brs. One of the biggest issues that has been made by adding even more tiers to the game is that if someone wants a 1960s fighters and doesn’t care about all ww2 planes, it is a hellish grind to get there, now with the addition of those new high tier premiums, there is no reason for someone who just wants to get the good stuff to grind the normal way compared to just buying the prem and playing 3million matches in it. One of the best solutions would be a TT spilt, from WW2 maybe until early Korean War and then Cold War era stuff, similar to boats, so you don‘t have to grind for 40 years if you want to have the things that interest you, same goes for tanks (and ships), tho it would come with the possible issue of splitting the playerbase but possibly helping with the issue at hand. Lovely video tho and I understand how you feel, it just is pain seeing something you endeared for so long just running head first into a wall, or just slowly digging its own grave. Ofc games need to make money but it shouldn‘t come with the price of driving it into a wall. I mean seeing the downward spile world of warships is going through and how WT is just causing itself to go down a similar path is just saddening.

[@poyolok0385]

I played the su11 as a test drive for 1 hour, and oh boi was it good. 3+ kills in every game

[@nateberry9393]

I know Gaijin has completely neglected the air aspect of this game, but I saw what they did with the naval aspect. Separating smaller PT style boats and larger Destroyers, Cruisers, etc. What if they did something similar for air? Propeller driven aircraft and jet driven aircraft having their own separate tech trees? That way if someone wants only jets, the grind is way shorter. Jets fly way differently than props anyway.

[@johncongdon7398]

honestly 60% premium seems a bit too low, its usually 80-90% premium for me at that BR, especially if you use a premium yourself

[@eckolegend6560]

A gotcha game having a problem with premium characters??? 😮 who would’ve ever thought?

[@jonthecowboy]

I just bought the F5C two days ago. The grind is nonexistent compared to what I was used to in props. Just deletes the RP required for planes down low. I’m not a good pilot, but it’s not even worth the grind at competitive BRs IMO(5.7-6.0). Still the all aspect missiles seem out of place against 10.0

[@johncongdon7398]

I feel bad for you, shouldn't have bought the F-5C its utter trash in todays game

[@jonthecowboy]

@@johncongdon7398 What? I mean the SU-25 is way OP for its BR, but that doesn’t make the F5 bad

[@johncongdon7398]

@@jonthecowboy you're right. The su-25 doesn't make the F5 Bad, the F5 makes the F5 bad lol 😆 how many times do you dogfight with mirages, mig21s/23s, F4s you actually win?

[@jonthecowboy]

@@johncongdon7398 I’m still learning but I’ve gone pretty even with them most times. I’m guessing you bought it died once and then quit???

[@johncongdon7398]

@@jonthecowboy No, I don't own the F5C, I wouldnt get it anyway. It's not the worst jet to buy but people get tunnel vision and buy it before looking at other planes to get

[@параглаз]

All fun'n'games until you get to fight Su-11 in your 262. feelsbadman

[@ukrainianfedora8787]

Honestly I feel like half of the premiums wouldnt be a problem if it didn't uptier Mig 15s to even fight an A5, or even a 9.7 in general thats just seal clubbing

[@BohemianCloud35]

The European Canadian's most recent BR change video Was hilarious, he he ended up just ranting about how bad players are nowadays.

[@SealFredy5]

WOT got a little bit better, but WT just has an insane grind. The only time the grind was somewhat OK was the 20lvl system they had years ago. After they switched to RP, the grind increased orders of magnitude. Not to mention all the tiers past the first 5 and all the more modern equipment that increased the grind even more.

[@Karibo_0]

The problem is the fact that Gaijin never had a plan to add so many vehicles in the game in the first place. 10 years ago there was a plan to add up to Korean war planes and most likely tanks and that’s it. Back then Wargaming was the main game for vehicle battles and Gaijin was just a little company trying to add something new and quite more realistic. The game worked, very well and despite swearing that this and this type of plane / tank / ship will never be added “because it can’t work in War Thunder”, guess what they actually made it work. Now imagine new players wanting to get a shiny top tier jet while not caring for lower br props / WWII era stuff. They currently have no other option but to get the iconic a10 premium and grind their way to the f14 of their dream. The game should probably change, and I’m ready to bet it will rather sooner than later, changing the tach trees just like they did with the separation between costal and blue fleet (remember there will never be battleships in the game *wink*).

[@Gamatech123]

I've always said since I started playing way back in 2015, and I still stand by it today: "This game is absolutely pay-to-progress, but pay-to-win? Nah". I will die on that frikkin' rock XD

[@MrDoctorDen]

I think not all premiums are op or p2w. This problems is mainly about T5 and T6 premiums imo.

[@TheBrDeath]

in many ways yes, this is less an issue now but older legacy premiums when it used to be a nation vs nation game would potentially give a team an unbeatable combination of strengths and capabilities (big one would be german teams getting good climbing 109s good rolling 190s and then a premium p47 for super speed BNZ). or theres things like the wyvern that are just too fast and get airspawns for anyone at that br to do much vs

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@TheBrDeath And XP-50, the space striker

[@derkaiser9881]

@@TheBrDeath The wombo combo was Japan + Germany ever getting matched together. Climb to space and the 109s would be above you with J2M2s, sit low-mid altitude and you're A6M3 bait. It was hilarious.

[@TheBrDeath]

@@derkaiser9881 in many ways that was what happened every time GB+USA were together (which was nearly all the time - hokkaido) provided the USA didnt bring any bombers and actually flew their fighters like fighters. spacefires pushed everyone down and then the p51/p47/f4u's could gain the alt to start dominating the high alt while spits would circle down and turn fight bellow their energy fighting US cousins. the few times it happened it was wonderful (no bombers)

[@MrDoctorDen]

@@TheBrDeath Too bad historical matchmaking is long gone by now

[@AcidicThought]

If anything you weren't negative enough. Not only do they stack all these premiums into high-tiers, their awkward performance to loadout ratio makes it an absolute gauntlet to grind though, all the while Gaijin skews repair costs, SL and RP gains, and win rewards in their favor.

[@jonathanjuwainat5535]

I have to pay for my own ammo for fucks sake

[@fnorgen]

I remember an old conference talk by some very successful mobile game developer titled "Lets go whaling". You can find it on youtube. It's all about how to shamelessly monetize free to play games for maximum profit. The key takeaway was that most of your revenue will come from a small portion of your player base, who, (if given the opportunity,) will spend ludicrous sums of money on cosmetics, xp-boosters- performance boosters, premium consumables, and really anything that gives them an advantage. Most of your players aren't going to spend much money regardless what you do to please them, but you still need to keep them around or the whales won't have any seals to club. The key is to make sure that the whales never run out of premium stuff to buy, and to make the game blatantly pay-to-win, but not so blatant that the cheapskates leave in disgust. In other words: Unless you're regularly spending serious money on the game, you're just a glorified NPC as far as the company is concerned.

[@oliverstianhugaas7493]

Biggest premium factor is that *MANY* people buy a high level premium just to grind low level.

[@Pilicast]

Actually so ridiculous that there are planes (su-25, a-10) with all aspect 30G missiles (that require NO skill to use) at the same exact battle rating as the CL-13B

[@flysomepipers]

The a10 is usually carrying atleast one aim-9.

[@rancorusia]

while grinding the f-14, i saw quite a few games that were majority f-5c vs su-25k

[@abrunosON]

The biggest problem is BR compression and the only way to solve it is by increasing the player base. Most problems solve themselves with more players and to achieve that we literally need a ponzi scheme or high fidelity bots.

[@bluebox87059]

Ah yes the Su-11, a postwar prototype plane with better engines and flight performance than the late war jets that sit ABOVE IT in BR.

[@Chromium_az_egyetlen]

A game is only a game, if you like it then you don't need to worry , A game is made to relax after a hard work. Good Video👋

[@SuperGlueFingers]

I'll admit, I bought the F-5C on this last sale. I found I DESPISE the aircraft grind, but wanted something to counter those damn Mig-27's, since my ADATS can never touch one.

[@1414Kai]

would have been cool if there was like a conclusion or a suggestion for fixing this, while keeping proper monetization for gaijin in mind. Other than that a pretty solid video :)

[@donkey1319]

well said and very well put across, but how ever yes but not all premiums are as bad but i do agree with the fact they do bust the mm. however when i play them when in hands of a decent pilot they are way more broken than the average player. The su25k is just a easy two kill game due to the R60mk's.

[@Obelion_]

what really annoys me is that the premiums kill variety so hard... there are probably 30+ aircraft around the 9.3 -10.0 BR and over half the planes you see are su25 and A10. this happens every BR range where a single op premium exists. it just murders variety completely. i wish gaijin would implement some way to preserve variety a bit. like no more than 3 of a single plane per match or something. the issue is really the huge a-10 swarms that you cant reasonably fight with gun jets. get behind one and 3 others turn on you and launch missles at 4 k. 2 or 3 are still managable, but 6-10 just arent

[@Kotrovsky01]

Yesterday I was playing the F4EJ and getting downtiered to 10.0/10.3 all of the time, something that most of the time would be a dream, but is in fact a nightmare because it becomes a clash of who has the better premium players or who has the least premium players wins. I wonder how the A-10 being 10.0 and 10.3 will affect that even more. Also something to be said about crew points if you're a new player, if you don't expert crews in most jets you'll be G-locking your ass to death dogfighting and dodging missiles, not to mention repair and reload speeds in game for tanks. But yeah I agree 100% with what you said, hopefully something changes in the future, even though it's unlikely.

[@thomasprice2457]

These ACTUALLY top tier arcade battles. Bring in all the cannon fodder they want! They’re spading out my F14 to take into real/sim battles

[@thomasprice2457]

BR decompression would help

[@Sultan-cf5wf]

2:17 the issue here is 9.7 vehicles (and other similar ones - F5C is especially noteworthy in this regard) getting access to 11.0 missiles. It breaks things. Planes at 9.7 do not have countermeasures to avoid 35g heatseekers. I can pull away from 20g missiles, but not 35g missiles.

[@stormjet814]

I don’t see how an aim9E is an 11.0 missile, but besides that I agree

[@ryanh2621]

@@stormjet814 i agree about the f5 as i have one but only after i hit rank 5 jets myself, same with tanks, grinded ranks 3, 4 and 5 without a single premium vehicle

[@piotra71]

If this premiums are destroying other players experience in war thunder then it should be fixed. Things like this make people leave the game.

[@anonimosu7425]

premiums went from fun to op to redundant grinding skins

[@marcustaylor670]

To get to the high BR ratings takes so long if grind where if you can find a way of getting a premium either by purchasing it, trading on market place, completing an event or getting it through joining a squadron you get to experience the higher ranks quicker. Also because you won't have done the grind the crews won't be as good so that offsets the possibly better premium vehicles. I generally just play at the levels I've ground up to which is around the br 7.0 level at ground and br 5.0 air depending on the country. I can clean up with normal vehicles same as premiums and get killed easily with either. The game in my opinion overall isn't pay to win, just feels like it sometimes.

[@handlesaresuperghey]

its the same reason us tankers hate the new premium tanks it lets new players get into top tier tanks for no effort. They don't know how to use them and end up dragging their whole team down. I've been around since war thunder was just planes but man its always been the same.

[@ja37d-34]

Yes, there is a big Premium problem with some pay to win vehicles.... it is disgusting.

[@tigerved9125]

i think you got the right point of premium jets and time

[@triifid1327]

I believe they've really lost themselves in the greed, my theory for br compression is that it has nothing to do with que times and everything to do with RP output. If games are a constant slaughter with 1 team always getting wiped out within 5 minutes the match doesn't last long enough for RP multipliers to kick in, so even with premium if games are lasting less than 10 minutes you're getting hardly any RP which prolongs the grind and frustration tempting you into paying for research or premium vehicles. I'm not necessarily against premium vehicles when the player using them is experienced or been playing a long time and wants to grind out that new tree to get back into top tier of that nation, however when we have people jumping on for their first game and it's in the F5c it runs the match maker for everyone else who then gets a team filled of bots and wiped in an instant which results in no RP and completely ruining their experience all because gaining wants to capitalise off of new players who will come and buy their way in only to leave in a few months.

[@no-wl9xx]

and this is why there needs too be a minimum requirement for buying premiums like fx only being alowed to buy a premium thats up too 1 rank higher then your highest techtree vehicle of that type

[@a-10brrrrrrrrrrr72]

I grinded to 8.3 in the American air tree before giving in and buying the f5c as a Farley experienced player it wasn't hard getting use to it and its without a doubt one of the best grinders

[@2_sniper23]

Top tier premiums in my opinion are good in the long term but are really bad in the short term due to the hype of an update with the massive buying sprees of players during them, but eventually there will be less of them as time goes on.

[@MattCantu76]

It's freemium Cartman, you have to pay to be good.

[@Noxadrol]

people who cant wait to grind to jets might have them for that reason

[@precisemike]

Speaking of problems, it's super annoying when I'm playing at 2.3 air rb and like 5 minutes after takeoff Im back at my air field repairing because I got sniped by mid map AAA at 3700m altitude.

[@aurorathearcticwolf4243]

this is.... this is the most accurate WT video i have seen... GONE are the days of old when WT was actually easier to grind and stuff... then came along the bullshit "pay 2 win" aircraft that was the Fw-190 D-13, THAT was the plane that started all the shit we see today. It was the most OVERPOWERED fighter in the game at the time of its introduction as it simply out performed everything else apart from more advanced aircraft that it was SUPPOSED to face but rarely ever did, even today you CAN NOT GET 1 GAME without seeing like 5 D-13s at mid tier since its still brokenly OP like literally 90% of Germany is nowdays (this is where the Un historically accurate shit starts) gaijin actually listened to the player base about the LIE that was GerManY sUfFeRs and made it so stupidly overpowered that you cant lose when playing it unless your still in the rank I-II areas, but once you reach rank III Germany... you cant lose period! it takes a total IDIOT team to lose at rank III Germany which lets face it your not getting those teams very often. After they made Germany the most OP nation in the game the devs then proceeded to remove all realistic match making and then buffed every other nation apart from one... The good ol USA is left out... forgotten by the devs in terms of performance and simply suffers so much that you physically cant play it outside of ranks I-II. any attempts to play the USA at ranks III-V will result in you losing so much SL that its basically the nation that the devs have FORCED the pay 2 win issues on. My rant has gone on long enough but theres 1 last thing i need to say... THE ME 262 A1/U1 IS RETARDEDLY OVERPOWERED AND SOULDNT EXIST EVEN AS A SQAUDRON ONLY VEHICLE!