The Problem With Imaginarium Theater | Genshin Impact

[@VarsII]

Free redemption code time woo! [NGQRXD51KK3B] Help yourself! Players will get: 10 Adventurer's Experience, 10,000 Mora, 5 Fine Enhancement Ore, 5 Stir-Fried Fish Noodles, and 5 Jueyun Chili Chicken.

[@marupurusaivamsi4802]

Yay, now I can level all characters to 90 and crown them.

[@otaku4603]

With that i can level up all my level 1 characters to 70 and ready for next month of imaginarium theater mihoyoverse is so generous

[@Tempest27]

Wow omg now I can finally built all my characters

[@myralakes8704]

They can’t be serious with this redemption code 😭

[@Doctor_Apocalypse]

Such generosity from you Hoyoverse

[@devam8192]

Top comment from Zajef's video explains it perfectly "It's easy enough for old players and restrictive enough for new players, leaving both sides frustrated with no solution in sight."

[@緑-x6z]

I don't agree, but to each their own.

[@youdontneedtoknow7548]

You guys are just never happy huh!

[@spacebanana712]

Idk man I'm a literal day 1 player, and ngl this was more engaging than abyss for me, abyss is too easy and I generally just turn my brain off when playing it. But IT actually makes me think about what to do to beat the level efficiently. Both game modes are easy but IT is more engaging imo. As for new players, idk man, I feel like if you're new you kinda dont have to stress yourself over it.

[@chiarasuper]

I was expecting to maybe at least hear a more mixed critique, but the way the title was worded, it's so negative. I think people shit on the theater a bit too hard for the first season... and in a certain sense, it seems like the derangement syndrome is starting to get more evident with each passing day and week. It feels like they can never really be satisfied. I think Hoyoverse wasn't wrong about the concern for anxiety (even though CN translation says it's more about powercreep anxiety), because people were asking for a type of new content to be implemented, but when this was finally added, people then started to bemoan about the new endgame. in my opinion it gives me a new way to appreciate old characters. I've seen my friends be able to use Venti after being so irrelevant in Abyss. I don't disagree with people who have legittimate criticism, as long as they keep in mind that it is meant to be endgame and thus new players cannot just beat hard mode difficulty, but I think it would've been nice if there was some positive aspects on this mode, at least find something that is really good and make sure Mihoy knows these aspects are positive, so that they can leave the positive aspects alone and improve the negative aspects. This is coming as a day 1 player who recently got 36* in Abyss and starting to take it seriously starting in Fontaine arc. I didn't really pull on many banners until a while ago, and I was planning to be done after 3.8 pulls and feeling satisfied with my accounts, then I broke my promise and drew on the Fontaine banners. So I think the new mode gives me more reason to pull on banners and try to be diverse rather than my usual 10 five stars or the likes. Even making me build Xiangling and Bennett who were level 40 or so before + Xiao who I never used after pulling him randomly in 1.3

[@agzane268]

​@@spacebanana712 opposite for me, I picked random buffs and ran unequipped characters and still cleared first try, whereas abyss usually takes me a few try and some thought

[@SuperKevinho1]

Genshin Difference: Put something that community asked for a long time, but always in a way that community didn't ask or incomplete.

[@Otherface]

Artifact loaoduts be like:

[@SuperKevinho1]

@@Otherface No way I was thinking about it when I was writing...👀

[@karsonkammerzell6955]

​​​@@Otherface They give you temp artifact loadouts if yours suck. Does this community even read these things or just look for reasons to bitch, lol? Zero sympathy you can't complete the new end game mode because you stopped playing.

[@eurekadiaz3771]

well said, I wonder if theres anyone in their team that actually plays the game at all, it's crazy how many times they repeat this kind of bulls...

[@Raikeran]

​​@@Otherface aint no way thats still not a thing 💀

[@zendao7967]

So the restriction here is 3 folds: 1. Elements: Forced to use only 3 elements. 2. Characters: Forced to start with a set of principal characters and unlock others randomly later. 3. Party: Forced to use exactly 4 characters with no option of using fewer to save vigor. The game literally treats you like a drone. "Play the content our way. and ONLY OUR WAY. Don't try anything creative now." I'm out.

[@aldyzero6676]

Yep, instead of the labyrinth game mode we got in Inazuma (Childe & Xinyan event) which is actually good, we got this TRASH

[@FurinatheArtist]

Also, you’re forced to build a lot of characters. I’m not exactly in end game but I’m pretty late in the game, and it’s just too much. I only use a few characters. Why would I have 18 characters built to level 70? I can easily clear it with the characters I currently have. I can literally beat enemies 10+ levels higher than my characters easily.

[@Fyreshield]

I never really liked the vigor mechanic, even when they tried it in previous limited events, but it wouldn't annoy me nearly as much if you could try a 2-3 character team to save on vigor for the end (or after you get the boon the converts extra vigor into damage)

[@flamezforthegamez1056]

The elemental restrictions make sense because the lineups of enemies and the wondrous boons are shaped around the elements you play. The party thing makes sense as otherwise, you'd just trivialize the resource management of vigor. It basically played out like Triumphant Frenzy, which to an extent, is as polarizing as this game mode, where its completely divided in favor or in opposition of the mechanics. So maybe there is a workaround middle ground. 1. Wondrous Boons need a major buff. The irony of that. The buffs need a greater buff than the characters used themselves. Like maybe take Hyakunin Ikki's or Realms of Guile and War's buffs as inspiration or direct implementation. 2. We can select our initial lineup (so we can bring in the scrap characters to expend first and get better characters in return) but the companion event RNG still exists for the sake of variety. 3. Rather than being able to play less than 4 characters, maybe a mechanic where each round, one character from the team has their vigor saved. It is inspired by Realms of Guile and War where only one character from the team can move on while rest are eliminated. Thus, the element of randomness is still at play but the gacha-ness is still at play, and it gives the whole reason for teh three elements- to enjoy Wondrous Boons that you design teams around. Basically a 3-element Simulated Universe where your teams are made for the Wondrous Boons and you get to decide Wondrous Boon builds more so than the team builds. Imagine getting to trigger Venti's burst via overload, Raiden's C6 via electro swirl, a coincidental vape team through pyro swirl, and healing through Arlecchino's Bond of Life because a Wondruos Boon can overwrite that part of her kit. Now that sounds entertaining. I think the general gist is that the random team creations is not strong enough for long=term entertainment but team creation around wacky and wild Wondrous Boons would be.

[@B_R_U_H14]

"Oh noooo, I'm forced to actually play the fcking game, I am gonna complain about this in the internet because I am very disappointed in Hoyoverse like actually what?? Us, actually playing the game??"

[@GheistXin]

It boggles my mind how Honkai Star Rail got Divergent Universe, where all the characters you possess are scaled up to an appropriate level and even get temporary weapons and relics and their traces leveled up, having a ready-made solution for the problem in Imaginarium Theater, yet they chose to not use it in Genshin.

[@wokka6554]

Prob 2 different teams working at the same time didn't even collaborate thats the possible explanation

[@rymoo27]

Exactly!!

[@thegamewoods8473]

Well that's because Divergent Universe isn't end game content. It's a glorified farming domain for Planer Sets.

[@eniobiondi2749]

​@@wokka6554that's probably why they failed at making a dmg dealing sustain in sigewinne

[@Intuos-]

​@@thegamewoods8473and yet divergent universe as a "glorified farming domain" is more challenging/engaging than anything genshin calls end game. The longer genshin goes the more It looks like a child's game

[@Chariotuber]

I wouldn't count the special guest characters as free units. While they are outside of the season's element requirements, you're still required to own them in order to select them as participants.

[@shootingstardragon7764]

Wait what. Why is that even a thing then?

[@arizona_anime_fan]

yep. i only had 2 of the 4, and of those two only one was partially build. even the seasons' characters, i only had 1 build well enough to use over the prebuilts you're given. of the 14 extra you can add only 5 or 6 were good enough to use. i basically ran out of usable characters on floor 4 of hardmode.

[@lucasayabe]

​@@arizona_anime_fani that have none of them ☠️

[@DeJaVu804]

I have none of the special guests so it’s completely useless for me. I had to level a few characters to 70 just to do end game mode.

[@rms.ziggler7344]

Yeah that part kept annoying me. Like my guy they’re NOT FREE.

[@katinthegetto2916]

my worry is that genshin will find the public negativity about the new end game and go "well, new end game failed. Let's never try again".

[@melisarobledo7269]

My question is, why of all the events we had, they decided to use the most irritating and tiring one. They could have brought us a simulated universe type of thing and what they brought us is "here you go, have fun with your 4 dps team, good look"

[@Vanyarma]

Bc they honestly don't care. GI realisticly has no competition yet so HYV won't do anything but bare minimum to placate fans until a game surfaces that actually competes in sales, and while an opponent has appeared it still has a long way to go before it can call itself a "competitor". Until then all we get are these performative "improvements" that bait players with rewards instead of fun 🤷‍♂️

[@demonking-zm3rs]

​@@Vanyarma... or there catering to there audience and adding in a mode that doesn't drive people into a vertical investment he'll Spiral. It's obnoxious to decide that you know what people consider fun. This mode was never catered to vertical investors the rewards are poses for the camera Yknow the thing I'm pretty sure grinders don't use

[@pitagor2]

​@@demonking-zm3rsSimulated Universe in HSR is not for vertical investers too and it's much much better than this. Like cmon it's not like the only thing that can exist is abyss and this weird thing. Just make a roguelike with actually strong buffs that change the way you play. Stuff like Simulated Universe blessings in HSR. Like HSR has 4 different Simulated Universe game modes and 3 different Abyss style gamemodes. What's genshin's excuse for offering us this shite

[@ArakishiTokugawa]

the error is mostly on the character they chose as free chars. Current split is 50/50, but 25/75 would have been better. but they did someting like having 1 Main, 1 non-Main for each type

[@Sirindilable]

i have 2 dendro characters overall. But at least 6 fully developed Cryo.

[@SageRuffin]

Something that also hurts IT, at least in my eyes, is that the Wondrous Boons do just short of jack all in buffing characters in fun and unique ways. They're just kinda... there and that's assuming you're even able to trigger them in the first place. Oh, you just got a useful buff that triggers off Swirls? Would be a shame if you didn't have any Anemo characters available... In "Season 1" (for want of a better term) of Illusive Realm in WuWa, the buffs and alterations you could give characters could get real nutty real fast. Infinite Skills/Bursts. Get healing from _everything._ Turn Chixia into Gunslinger Dante from DMC. Make Spectro Rover throw 3 swords from their attacks and have their Burst go off _3 times_ instead of just once. Make your very own Motivated Combo with Yangyang. The list goes on. I think the worst part about this is that many of us told Hoyo what we wanted: _just bring back Labyrinth Warriors!_ They wouldn't need to make it hyper-specific like in WuWa. Just give us access to some absurd buffs like 500% ER, 80% Skill CD (can you imagine Xiao or Childe with 80% Skill CD?), max ATK speed, stuff like that. They could've even kept the level and element restrictions, i.e. "Ooh, I'll level this character up because I want to see what they play like in IT!" You know? I think a lot of people would've enjoyed that. I know I would've.

[@danielsirbu6706]

I 100% agree. On a tangent, doesn’t Childe use Normal Attacks and not skill dmg? Wouldn’t NA dmg help him more?

[@SageRuffin]

@@danielsirbu6706 You're not wrong, but Skill CDR means he can swap between melee and ranged modes more often - wouldn't have to wait as long for melee mode to come back online.

[@danielsirbu6706]

@@SageRuffin aaah you’re right

[@ingenuity2217]

Rip to those of us who thought the new endgame would be like labyrinth warriors. They haven't even brought the event back yet

[@reviewreaper8508]

I've not played or ever heard of this mode but it sounds hella fun. Also very based opinion, approved.~ Reminds me of the original tower defense mode in year1 which was controversial about time needed but in terms of fun gameplay no remake did come close ever again.

[@janablom823]

"What if that season it's Geo, Cryo, and Dendro" ok but imagine. Geo Anemo Dendro. Your reactions can't save you now.

[@ghotifish1838]

Fr

[@SuperKevinho1]

I think that Geo/Dendro/Anemo is too much also for Hoyoverse😅 Unless they are preparing new reactions (that aren't so difficult to make, sandstorm, leafstorm...)

[@kacperwoch4368]

Physical it is then

[@rushalias8511]

I mean...you still have guest characters and enemies own elements

[@thelaw_00]

Guess I'll go with mono geo and mono anemo but it still sucks. Also there's no such thing as mono dendro as far as I'm aware of. It's so dependent on reacting elements it this sucks even more

[@AevyCh]

The main problem is that the game's intentional resource drought only allows you to properly build 1-2 characters per month, but Imaginarium Theater requires 18 built characters. That's at least 9 months of playing the game just to be able to participate. But, since the game bans 4/7 elements, you'll realistically need around 30 characters to even start (unless you have dreams & know exactly what the next theaters will be, then you can prepare in advance). If you only invest the least amount required on your supports, that's still at least a whole year of farming... just to play.

[@veeshadow]

@@AevyCh No need for 9 months, Half of 18 chars can be build without their best weapon and artifacts. You can check trial characters artifact stats by clicking on them and they don't have high CV. Yet I can clear hard mode full star by using trial DPS (Arle, Wanderer, Clorinde). I admit I get advantages by leaks but then I build enough characters for this theater only in 1.5 month. This mode doesn't require a min-max but rather filling the quota and bare minimum for your chars.

[@mikonyx7712]

11, you can take all 6 of the trial characters and then add a supporting cast frim your friend. So I guess that is a somewhat solid cut

[@kraminhell]

And just to have them barely minimum built. It can take up to 3 months to optimize a character, they can't get away with it, they are mocking us...

[@Vickiraytive]

i don't know where people are coming up with these numbers. I just started in april and managed to clear normal mode with no issues. that's 3 months. my guess is that the I.T. will be picking the elements based on what characters have been available within the last few patches, and adding in trial characters in addition to that. It's not that hard to play for new players, who are more likely to pull for recent characters, unlike veterans who have a tendency of skipping non meta banners.

[@Vickiraytive]

@@kraminhell ... or they're trying to make building characters more accessible to players who arent "perfect artifact cv obsessed"

[@megabuster3940]

I can't understand why Hoyoverse can't just make Labyrinth Warriors from 2.2 the new endgame content That shit was 10 times more fun than whatever Imaginarium Theater is supposed to be

[@will5220]

right! I ask for a Labryrinth Warriors game mode all the time in surveys

[@Geminosity]

Preach! I came to adventure in dungeons and stuff, not do cleanup duty in instanced rooms :D Some of the traps in labyrinth warriors genuinely cracked me up. My 2 favourites were when the hid explosive barrels behind the breakable screen partitions and the one room full of chests where the ceiling collapses on you.

[@SilverDroid14]

It's cuz lots of people also didn't like that event. It was good on paper but a lot of players didn't like that you spent the majority of the time wandering the place instead of fighting.

[@Geminosity]

@@SilverDroid14 The vast majority of the playerbase don't like or play spiral abyss yet it's still here and they made another mode just like it :P Besides, most of the player base just want rewards in the fastest time... if you didn't want them to complain about events, specifically, then your best event type is the one where you flat out give them free stuff when they log in.

[@franzjackson7625]

@@SilverDroid14still would’ve been better than whatever this is

[@saimfaisal6795]

I don't have enough levelled characters to do hard mode... Also we're so done when we get a geo+cryo cycle

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

Done is an understatement. We're SCREWED

[@thatrandomguyontheinternet2477]

Good thing I accidentally got Itto. No don't ask why

[@mhmdhamzaagha6648]

I got geo DPS Navia/Noelle

[@alfonsocyrusjoshua9551]

@@DefinitelyNotAFerret with how little that roster is, it wont be an issue Geo-Itto, Zhongli, Albedo, Chiori Cryo- Ayaka, Ganyu, Shenhe, Eula you have an insanely high chance of getting a good unit or get chiori/eula problem with those 2 elements is that they have limited elemental interaction, geo geing geo and cryo only having 2 noteworthy ones, Super Conduct and Freeze

[@mikonyx7712]

What about hydro? The only non 5 star hydro units are Traveler, Barbara, Xingqiu and Candace xD. Cryo feels more like just a you thing

[@Restryouis]

The worst thing is needing a character that you DO have built and not getting it because RNG. Fuck this mode, I'm not doing multiple runs because Kazuha and Sucrose decided to hide and I can't complete the defend the monument.

[@lucasfreitas2245]

Git gud

[@dawensci7134]

​@@lucasfreitas2245 haha said the right one kid you should maybe get better

[@kagakai7729]

​@lucasfreitas2245 "git" rid of that extra chromasome

[@SHAdow98V]

Exactly, i had to complete the whole fucking thing 3 times because in the last boss i ran out of DPS characters and my leftover ones i didn't got yet were Dehya,Hu Tao and Diluc and i got Hu Tao first time who is useless without hydro to Vape and hydro is banned in this IT then i got Dehya and lastly finally someone useable Diluc so i legit had to redo the whole thing 3 times just because RNG f-ed me. I even had to struggle in a couple of fights despite the mode being easy simply because all i had were 5 supports that legit cannot do more than 2k dmg fully buffed and the RNG decided i need more supports that can't do jack, it amazes me that this shit is so broken and unfair RNG-wise that MHY tought it's good to go. Again it's easy to beat but hard and extremely infuriating and frustrating until you beat it cuz unlike Abyss where you need dmg,in this you need godlike RNG,this gamemode is legit no different than upgrading artifacts, it doesn't matter how well you start you just need to do it many many times hoping for the best result. Never tought they will turn upgrading artifacts into a game mode but hey MHY is MHY and they gotta MHY.

[@karsonkammerzell6955]

That's RNG for you. You get giga boned by bad RNG in SU and Gears and Gold all the time. Nothing new.

[@scarletc.gilliam9575]

I was so excited for Imaginarium Theatre because I am one of those players they get stressed out about Spiral Abyss but now that I’ve tried it, it’s a flop for me. I was actually more anxious and enjoyed it less trying to complete this than Abyss because of how restrictive the rules are. At least Spiral Abyss is straightforward, you know what you’re getting. Imaginarium Theatre is basically just another round of RNG. I have enough characters to complete hard mode but I none of my teams had any synergies but I couldn’t get access to characters when I need them.

[@cankurt1696]

But MHY wanted to prevent people from being afraid of endgame modes. In reality, it's just a justification to make the game even more F2P unfriendly and grindy in order to take even more money out of children's pockets with gambling mechanics.

[@SuperKevinho1]

​@@cankurt1696 Anxiety playing ❌️ Anxiety pulling ✅️

[@arizona_anime_fan]

@@cankurt1696 " it's just a justification to make the game even more F2P unfriendly and grindy " yep, that's exactly what it is. it's motivation for people to pull on banners they aren't interested in to get 4* or 5* they never normally would have pulled then waste time and resources on building, all to have a viable option for the IT.

[@xeiv1]

Remember them saying something about anxiety? And now, they add this, where you in practice will need at least 12+ different element characters built to fill the requirements, and you never know which 3 you will need. Also, making it last a month instead of 2 weeks is also stupid, it is less to do again for an entire month.

[@tripplesouth]

Every 2 weeks you do either theater or abyss. So you do get something each 2 weeks. You get 2 extra weeks (with it lasting a month) in each mode to build characters if it would make a difference. Overall though, I don't think this new mode was much of an improved addition to Genshin's "abyss" endgame.

[@cankurt1696]

They are just absolute hypocrites, quite simply. I'm legit really close to deleting all my Gacha accounts and withdrawing from them because I'm sick of this routine.

[@wriothesleyenjoyer]

bro, do you not realize the 30 days is there for people to level up their characters instead of moping around about how they need to have characters built

[@cankurt1696]

​@@wriothesleyenjoyerYes, you have 30 days. But then you want to build your favorite characters, farm artifacts, farm materials that are time-gated with the absolutely miserly amount of resin you have, etc. The mode is simply a justification to make farming the in-game currency even more difficult.

[@xeiv1]

@@wriothesleyenjoyer Bro, I play from 1.0, have all the 4* and most 5* stars, today, legit play some 4-6 characters, and did not bother to level most past lvl 70 nor any talent past 2, why? Because there was no need for it for 4 years, HoYo said they wont add endgame, even less reason to build characters, and now, suddenly I'm forced to build 40+ characters in 30 days? Ha... well, I may bee can, I wonder about the newer players thou.

[@AiisakaTaiiga]

Incredible that they perfected roguelike mode across 3 games(Elysian Realm>SU>whatever the mode is called in ZZZ) and fumbled so hard.

[@SuperKevinho1]

Genshin Difference. Is not the first time that Genshin releases a thing, but in a way that nobody asked...

[@lucasayabe]

Except they perfected rogue-like in Genshin too, but instead of bring the Childe event back but more stylish to fit an endgame mode, NO, they give us IT.

[@dominickroberts4653]

​@@lucasayabeBecause hoyo wants us to build multiple characters so we keep on playing

[@drnkndmn]

given that hsr also got apocalyptic shadow, next one is gonna be memorial arena 3.0 electric boogaloo

[@franzjackson7625]

Even wuwa got illusory realm right this is just a genshin issue. And people wonder why people say genshin could never.

[@VarsII]

I miss Labyrinth Warriors 🥺

[@Geminosity]

Agreed. Did they ever try anything like it again? I stopped playing about a year ago so I was worried I might've missed a new attempt at it.

[@nitrousxl5510]

Would’ve been the perfect endgame content, with little limitations and able to run around to gain and establish buff and path to find around before running to the boss. Even if possible, they could’ve do how hsr punishment, for lingering around to get more rewards but but a little negativity. (Gold n Gears for ex) Level spiking can be up to them for scale of the battle with how and who you play as.

[@someone.1184]

@@Geminosity Nope there were some combat events but nowhere as good as that gamemode

[@nickname6007]

I am scared for the season when they force us to use Geo....

[@otaku4603]

Bro i only have 4 geo characters and i just got Goro from previous patch if that happen i'm screwed

[@northstar67]

Thats me with cryo, any cryo focused event or floor just screw me up.

[@zelktheinvader7874]

Me with all the geo characters.

[@cebokhumalo602]

i would go off that season. my noelle will enjoy it

[@lightborn3526]

We're completely opposite cause all my built characters are Geo 💀💀

[@Indian_gae_boii]

12:18 the thing is, an endless imaginarium theatre kimd of already exists in the game In remuria, there is an arena that spawns infinte geo vishaps and theres a timer, the goal is to clear as many as possible within the limit, this kind of thing but expanded would have been a lot more fun

[@lucasayabe]

Every once in a while we have this type of content in an event. I call these Venti/Nilou events, and for me they're very fun, i always spend some hours trying to reach the Platinum medal

[@marblepants]

> endless > timer

[@Indian_gae_boii]

@@marblepants the mob spawn is technically endless lmao what's the point of having a no timer endless mob? The timer shows how many waves you can clear within a set time for a dps check, more waves cleared = your team is good

[@pylyshe]

where is it? Can't find it

[@raptori]

@@pylyshe It's a spot called "Caesereum Palace" - it's a cave close to the first entrance in the bygone sea. There's an arena there with a statue next to it - talk to the statue and it'll start the challenge!

[@gintasasd]

I think wuwa illusive realm is good example how to make endgame u get trail units u choose buffs you choose your own supports the stages are sure the same and enemies too but new update new theame for the realm. Its not so rng based or character check game mode

[@malikacs]

Good idea, but the thing is rougelike such illusive realm and simulated universe aren't endgame to begin with.

[@gintasasd]

@@malikacs the thing is endgame is up to player like genshin end game is what abyss artifacts that's all aka what game has permanently so wuwa end game so far is holograms realm tower and echo farming

[@malikacs]

You are confusing Endgame Mode and Endgame Activity, but then again maybe it is subjective

[@christianmartin3710]

​@@malikacs but that's what "endgame mode" is tho, it's an activity, it is something to do after you made it to post game, which is what the Illusive Realm is Sure, the content is finite, but each patch will have it updated and we'll have new stuff on the mode as it expands, which in the long term makes the content infinite Also by your definition, HSR's Gold and Gears and Swarm Disaster are not endgame contents (which is completely fine btw, I agree that the definition is subjective) because they are somewhat similar to Illusive Realm due to having limited content

[@Panda-yw4us]

Illusive realm is actually fun to play since it dramatically changes the characters' kits and some feels like a different character from how they are originally, it doesnt feel like a chore to get rewards for end game content. I can't say the same for genshin's tho, Imaginarium theater feels like a veteran player check sort of game nothing really fun to do there imo and abyss is so easy I got away using the same 2 teams for 2 years

[@freiqisss]

The problem is that I need to start wasting levelling materials, and the fact that most people are stuck in babyjail until they get more characters for each season 🤷

[@FemboiMuffin]

You don’t actually need to complete hard mode :3 just normal mode + abyss gives MORE primogems than abyss alone in previous patches :D you can do the math >w

[@gereer]

@@FemboiMuffin yeah but u still missing primos that u could get ir there were no artificial restrictions so 💀

[@veeshadow]

@@FemboiMuffin Plus leveling 1 to 70 is not that costly because I did leveling to 70 with chars I owned. If it's not enough consider for Battle Pass. $8-10 is a little compared to those whaling for Crystals. This feels like people basically get penalized for spending 90% of lifetime Resin for farming artifacts instead hoarding characters to level 70 even if you never use said characters. I level up those fodder characters because of past experience of playing MMORPG and now I was correct to do that decision.

[@kelsie6969]

You dont even need to level 90 all of your character to do the hard mode. Level 70 is the requirements and the combat is not even that hard.

[@FemboiMuffin]

@@kelsie6969 true :3 and also many of the Acts (not all but most) don’t have a timer. Yes you get a medal if you do it in a certain time, but in most you can take as much time as you need. I was able to do Hard Mode thanks to this :3

[@rikkuree]

Endless battles: we’ve been asking for that ever since 2.something. It was during the Childe and Xinyun event. THAT was what a lot of people wanted as another endgame mode and have an endless battles mode ):

[@HyroDragon-777]

So true childe on was good you can pick intersting buff like free c1 only in domain

[@_shadow_1397]

Tbh, I feel like they used that event to make Simulated Universe for Star rail. We know Hyv tends to use events to test features before adding them to their games, it’s just both frustrating and infuriating they chose the one event/feature we wanted and put it in a different game

[@Geminosity]

I left Genshin last year. I was initially attracted to the game back on launch day as it presented itself as an open world gacha. For hundreds of hours it was exactly what it advertised: I got to explore, do things at my own pace and with characters I liked. Then after the one-shot stuff was all done, it started to hit that all the 'repeatable' content was repurposed honkai star rail nonsense: locking you in instanced circular arenas with a timer telling you to defeat waves of monsters. How incredibly dull and opposite to the entire game up to that point and it's ALL like that. Want to grind artifacts? Circular instanced timed arenas. Want to advance your weapons? Circular instanced timed arenas. Want to advance your characters? Circular instanced timed arenas. Want to do a monthly way of getting some primogems? Circular instanced timed arenas. How about mixing it up with a combat event? Circular instanced timed arenas. What's this? Genshin is adding a new mode? Oh cool, I wonder what they'll d- Circular instanced timed arenas. It doesn't matter how thick the tome of arbitrary rules they slam on top of it is or how much UI drivel you have to navigate past to finally get there. It's still just yet more Circular instanced timed arenas. Oh, and sometimes you defend a monolith... because, y'know, players have historically always enjoyed defending stuff in games where the monsters just attack from everywhere. It's all such a CHORE. That's a big part of why I'm glad Wuthering Waves has recurring Illusive Realm: It's a random dungeon exploration thing. Genshin could've had this if they'd built on the foundations of Labyrinth warriors, but I guess whoever did that event moved to HSR or got locked in a basement somewhere. God forbid they have an activity that involves exploration and doesn't have a timer on every single piece of combat. As for my hatred of timers: one of the appeals of an open world is being able to feel like you're doing things at your own pace. A timer, even if you never actually run out of time, is like the game developer standing over your shoulder with a stopwatch, trying to hurry you along. It sours the experience and makes me want to tell them to f**k off. They don't even try to theme why the timer is there, it's genuinely an arbitrary failure timer: you fail because a timer ran out, not for any actual explainable in-world reason.

[@AsterWi]

man i hate timers too

[@lightborn3526]

I aint reading allat

[@blueberrymk.1091]

​@@lightborn3526 then why comment? If you're not gonna read. Then just scroll.

[@lightborn3526]

@@blueberrymk.1091 because

[@Tempest27]

Sane😂​@@lightborn3526

[@Wizard_Lizard_]

It's crazy to me that an adventure game doesn't have adventure related end game content. A mode that is a combination of being tough enemies to fight, puzzles to solve, obstacles to avoid, and various landscapes with different paths to take. In my opinion this is what Imaginarium Theater should've been. Would've been a cool bonus to have a mode like this to have co-op capabilities.

[@reviewreaper8508]

Wow. I can already hear the devs shout "impossible to implement!". Such a solid point, way ahead of it's time! Chances are the idea would cost more than it would gain the company and genshin isn't about multiplayer. As much as I wish it could be.~

[@hayakawaken9493]

My best word about IT would be a begrudging 'it's got potential'. I enjoy using a wider cast of chars, but it's high time to make the mode fun to play.

[@trlwaifulover7593]

Issue is that they make units bad so noone ever invest on them, now they basically force us to use them, but that doesn't make them good😮 you just have no other option but to cope

[@Fragile_Memories]

I honestly feel like it's just abyss 2.0. I'm a casual player, and like abyss this will probably only get played for the small amount of gems I'll be able to get anyway...

[@vick0527]

My expectations on IT were low ever since I saw the leaks mentioning it featuring vigor, but dear god I somehow still got disappointed

[@lotticello]

We could have gotten Misty Dungeon but noooooo, we got Triumphant Frenzy instead

[@zuninona]

except triumphant frenzy was better lmaoo

[@cloveraev]

i'm glad they made a new endgame mode but, seriously, they could've planned it out far better, it's just a dissapointment

[@arconteprimordial]

End game content? It is not challenging content, but limited to the time spent in the game. You can't have enough characters at level 70 if you haven't spent almost a year playing, at least.

[@SuperKevinho1]

Yes. Too many users act like only for the fact Genshin released a new endgame, we have to being satisfied despite how it is developed. This endgame could be made better

[@SageRuffin]

I said in my own comment they could've just repurposed Labyrinth Warriors. Instead we got... this. And knowing Hoyo, it'll be literal years before they decide to make any adjustments so that it's more engaging (hell, it took them 3 years to add a "Collect All" feature to the goddamn blacksmith).

[@gregorygeorge7105]

​@@SuperKevinho1they need to stop defending a billion dollar company with 4 years old game they have so much sources to make an actually enjoyable content

[@abhiss6705]

​@@SageRuffinor take the same feature and introduce it in another game

[@malikacs]

They should have called this gamemode Imaginarium Prison with how much restriction they have 😂

[@Charlez_Ink]

The thing I love about sim uni (it’s my favorite game mode in star rail) is that with the right buffs you can make a character go absolutely ham to the point that the game lags from how many numbers are on screen. I was hoping for a similar thing in this new mode but there’s Almost no reason to go for buffs and next to no rewards so what’s the point???

[@SuperKevinho1]

I'm too a "lags because too strong" lover in videogames😂.

[@baz7160]

I would love an endless mode but it would require either : -more or no vigor -easier way to regenerate a character's vigor (it's already possible but you need a pretty rare event) -The ability to use less than 4 character in a stage One improvement I could see is change the vigor system but some sort of fatigue system where every stage the character you played get more tired and are debuffed as a result. It would allow more stategy (like having one "dead weight" char that you use to fill the 4 character quota in a stage but never use so it's no big deal if their fatigue meter gets low to the point this character is unusable) and it would also give you to brut force with very strong and invested character that are strong enough to remain viable even when stacking debuff. You could also strategise and use a character to clear the 4-5 first stage since those are easier, allowing you to keep more character for later. All in all, the gamemode isn't bad but it's sad how much wasted potential it has.

[@banbrado28]

Problem with this is it enhances a lot of Genshins problems that have been ignored by the devs for years. Properly leveling and gearing a single character can take a month or more if you're unlucky. I've been playing for a year and a half (f2p) and i have maybe 9 chars that qualify for this mode before considering elements. At bare minimum we need more resin, reserve resin, or faster resin growth. Basically as usual we need the Star Rail QoL stuff.

[@vfl0werswife]

literally though! it took me two months just to get a singular sands on arlecchino's set. IT is horrible if youve got bad resin rng, or are a new player. ive been playing since release and still struggled!

[@ObiJakobe]

This is probably the first time i started farming materials, artifacts, mora and books ley lines for C tier characters

[@ghnbtrcv8672]

And this suck hard

[@vict632]

Imo making it "X element is disallowed on this month's rotation" would be way better than the current "You can only use these 3 elements" It would be alot less restrictive and so they could make it a bit harder. And I feel like trying to complete a run "without hydro" or "without pyro" sounds alot more interesting than only having access to what amounts to Overloaded + Anemo in this first iteration. Also the NERVE of Hoyo to make the first I.T. essentially an Overloaded one and STILL not rerunning Chevruse. Wow.

[@skyfly_na]

i really like that idea! i think going for disallowing even 2 or 3 elements would be better than only allowing 3, hoyo gets the limitation they clearly want while also not restricting as many units, making it easier for more players to hit the character amount needed. it'd also look better imo if they banned less than half the elements in the game

[@deathwingthedestroyer3632]

The restrictions of this game mode makes Alcatraz look like a kid’s Birthday Party.

[@akira8393]

Alca what?

[@deathwingthedestroyer3632]

@@akira8393 It was one of the the most secure and remote prisons in the world. The place is surrounded by cold and shark infested waters.

[@sokka4875]

@@deathwingthedestroyer3632 not to be mistaken with Azkaban, one of the the most secure and remote prisons in the wizarding world. The place is surrounded by cold and dementor infested skies.

[@deathwingthedestroyer3632]

@@sokka4875 That place was probably inspired by Alcatraz

[@akira8393]

@@deathwingthedestroyer3632 that's the first time ive heard of it

[@MSSProductions1]

I'm crying in mediocre vertical investment so I can't clear the abyss AND in almost non-existent horizontal investment. RIP me

[@jammjarr3359]

I was kinda excited, cause how people described it, they said "Its like Simulated Universe" But when i actually played it.. it wasnt bad.. but it still felt kinda disappointing I like the elemental restrictions, but i have been playing for like 4 years now nearly and have a long list of characters built up (so i understand why people dont like that) But idk, the execution of the gamemode felt.. more like a short event than a permanent mode got through it pretty fast and now there's nothing to do Edit: I see you share the same sentiment about it feeling like an event lmao

[@hutaolesshutaosimp8991]

You don't have to start over again actually, you can just re do the last level, you can access it by pressing esc before fighting.

[@Yammerzaki123fr]

Yup and you can end on the act you’re stuck in without doing every act.

[@7111mohamed]

Damn. I haven't played it yet. Not even a week and the community is collectively disappointed 😅

[@kitanahasw7830]

Trust me , you too will be dissapointed

[@mikonyx7712]

​@@kitanahasw7830 Let them play it, and they will see

[@Vickiraytive]

i like it! but i also have a tendency of playing games blind. It's only after that i realize there's a loud community of haters who spend their time whining instead of playing :p

[@paulyvii]

@@Vickiraytive lmao i can tell those people crying and whining haven't even tried to full clear IT yet. Too busy crying instead of building their characters. It was so easy. 1800 primos .

[@rushalias8511]

​@paulyvii lol...imagine having endgame that requires you to actually play the the game and put effort into learning how units work and building them rather than just brute forcing it with big numbers. It's end game....it's meant for players who are at the end of the journey

[@Spawnamvs]

I think an endless mode would suit imaginarium very well, but id like to see them add something more co-op oriented. Something like a boss rush with friends where you get ACTUAL stats like who did the most damage, most reactions, or who took the least damage, etc It feels like the co-op experience is lacking because we rarely get engaging co-op events so having something like this could be fun because the hardest difficulties could promote a diversity of different strategies and characters

[@xyippee]

i havent watched yet but it seems to me that the theatre is almost entirely just pulling bait or something, the element limitation is actually horrible💀

[@緑-x6z]

This is an argument I just don't understand at all. I've been playing for over two years (f2p). I've 27 characters fully build and only nine of them are exclusive 5*, two are standard 5*. Most of my characters are 4*, who are just not "meta-enough" for a lot of players yet I love them. Thanks to them I won't have any problems clearing IT on "hard mode" either.

[@tirramasu7948]

IIm F2P as well for 3 years though I've been Struggling ACT 7 is my limit . in my experience its hard when you didn't build everyone lol.

[@agiant5715]

​@@緑-x6z Im also a vertern of 3 years that had no issues clearing it but think of the 1 month only player point of veiw. In contrast to abyss, a newish player can still grind from floor 1 up to 8 over time as they play/pull more and build their characters as they get stronger and stronger reaching higher and higher which is actually a great incentive to keep the player both playing and feeling happy for the early-midgame. Meanwhile I feel most ppl AR 45 let alone those AR 35 (the requirement to unlock the event set via hoyo devs btw) dont even have enough characters lvl 1 for the event let alone smei build ones. TLDR: While im more than fine Hard/normal mode requirements, the easy one should be much lower as its not fair for a new player tobe completely locked from some content for months on end just to at the end do a 5 mins run and be done.

[@nu_kercat1]

@@agiant5715 even for veteran players who only play their favorite characters or have only 2-3 teams this mode is very restrictive

[@TheAllu]

@@agiant5715 for easy mode you only need to build 4 characters since you get 6 trial characters. That doesn't seem so unreasonable for an AR35 player to me.

[@ampersand7835]

"more about what you have and less about how you use it" is practically everything genshin is about anyway.

[@UncannyCreative8128]

The problem with this is that it's a LOT late I appreciate them finally adding a new game mode but it just seems like a last ditch effort

[@plvto1]

it doesn't feel like the devs care anymore, at this point anything new they add always seems to be a way to get more money out of you without contributing much of it's own other than story, lore and character design. it's infuriating how much missed potential this game has.

[@kakorotskywalker]

Even then, the storytelling and story structure has never been good. The lore is genuinely good, really good. But the dialogue are so, bloated and, just feel awful over time.

[@powwowken2760]

Leave it to Genshin to somehow add an endgame mode that's miraculously unsatisfying to the entire playerbase... New players will feel cheated by not having enough characters, low investment casuals will feel cheated because upgrading characters is an expensive and time consuming process, and whales/veterans will just be bored...

[@clarathetrash6279]

As an AR 57 f2p player I don’t have access to the hardest mode and now I have to decide if I want to build 4 characters just for like 200 primos. The motivation isn’t there.

[@thegreatBarbossa]

I still don't understand why they couldn't just have made Labyrinth Warriors an endgame thing. It's an infinitely better roguelike-gamemode and could easily be redone every month. Just have the dungeon itself be randomly generated out of preset rooms and corridors with a monthly pool of combat rooms that you're required to get through. Also put in Inazuma, I hate that they just plopped IT in Mondstadt, when they have this absolutely massive map with tons of free real estate. It's not like having the entrances to these endgame modes in the first area of the game makes them any more accessible to new players.

[@kakorotskywalker]

The putting in Mondstadt is a whole another issue tbh. There's barely any content in Mondstadt outside of events and Abyss Theatre. It is easily the smallest region, and the last time a new region that was added in Mondstadt was Dragonspine. Heard there's a new region coming but still, in the meanwhile, it has lacked a lot of content, and it feels like Abyss Theatre are a bandaid on that.

[@ProjectLethargic]

I do like that genshin is trying to borrow aspects that work from HSR because HSR is honestly such a fun game especially when it comes to things like this, but they just fumbled it so horribly, there are ways they could've made other elements useful without punishing new players or people who have a lot of 1 element built (as someone who has primarily built cryo hydro and dendro characters I am screwed here) I think they're trying to make elements that fell out of the meta be useful again and I like that in concept But I think like nerfing reactions would be a better way to incentivize using certain elements than just straight up banning them

[@Dayy365]

Personally I love it, it makes me feel like the random characters I built for fun & don't have a team for finally have a use. I also find the mode quite challenging as an old player (October 2020) that might also be because I'm not very good at the game but as someone whose never been able to 36* abyss I adore this mode. Not to mention how amazing the aesthetics are!

[@DaoYeLung]

I straight up don't know how most of the daily boss's mechanics work, since in the overworld I have the options of building the team I want, I usually just end up steamrollering them before their mechanics come into play. This mode is a learning experience since I have to MacGyver teams together and figure out what's going on doing boss stages.

[@reece5634]

Just remove the restriction that 4 characters needs to be in a team, and for me, that’s enough to be just ok. Also, increase the counter thing from 2 to 3

[@dustinabigan2776]

I do like the idea that they're at least trying to push players to use something else other than just their main DPS all the time, but it's likely going to take months for players to be able to adjust to that given that nearly every late-game player now builds their teams under the intention of using it in Spiral Abyss. Now using that team in Imaginarium Theater is like taking a Ferrari with low ground clearance for offroading (or more accurately not even going offroading because the car is unable to get on the truck that will take you there). If the units and building part is the issue though, makes me wonder what a gamemode would be like if Genshin instead tossed you the units to choose from based on the element restrictions (with emphasis on reactions, it feels criminal to have Pyro and Electro but not have Chevreuse in the trial lineup) and then it boils down to a game of who can properly make use of the team in a Spiral Abyss-like scenario.

[@demonsangel5282]

There was an event like that some time ago where you got premade characters with set builds and people hated it because you were forced to use those builds, you couldnt bring your own. The event focused more in understanding the core mechanic of each character and trying to make it work in non optimal teams.

[@dustinabigan2776]

@@demonsangel5282 There's nothing stopping devs from allowing players to use their own builds though. And to put it bluntly, if an issue is lack of characters and then players complain about the characters being given not up to standard, then just don't play. It's bargain bin stuff to have bad builds, but that's better than being completely locked out of the gamemode because you don't have the units and the game doesn't give you any to use if you're in that problem.

[@soujiokita6062]

Wdym "push players to use something else other than just their dps" this mode forced to use 2-3 dps in a same team atleast once per run 😂

[@dustinabigan2776]

@@soujiokita6062 Unless your DPS is Pyro, Electro, or Anemo or any of the Guest Characters, then yes you are being pushed to use another character to fill in that slot. Same goes for supports and healers.

[@robyn1766]

i didn't realise people hate the Imaginarium theater >.< I actually really liked it but I'm also kind of obsessed with building all my characters so maybe that's why

[@timothycontoveros4699]

One thing I found interesting as a long-time player is that if you actually use the trial characters it’s considerably more difficult! I think the gamemode is just balanced around players who have characters around the same level of investment as the Trial Characters. And it actually is kind of difficult to account for players like myself who have been playing for 3 years and have many cracked and maxed out 5 stars because if u make a game mode that is difficult for me, it would be near impossible for (low spending) players who have only been playing for, say, 1 year. They would likely need another year to clear that level of challenge. Still, I’d love for them to add a 4th difficulty level or an endless mode that gives no additional primo rewards but maybe gives like Artifact Strongboxes or Artifacts exp or something!

[@lucasayabe]

You can just choose to invest vertically in the featured element DPS and you can save a lot of resources as most of the levels can be cleared using one or two characters only besides It forcing you to use 4

[@GinoCugino23]

The worst thing is that it isn't an additon, but a replacement, because now Abyss resets once a month. And it is a shame, because in this way mihoyo removed a feature previously included.

[@Agedude]

Personally I had fun. However I've been playing for a long time and I have enough fully built units. I love restricted Abyss challenge runs, and I often replay Abyss with different teams and comps despite no rewards. So the idea of an official Genshin randomizer is so cool to me. I ended up finding new ways to play my existing units who may be overly reliant on specific teammates. For example I have a Xiangling on an EM build who needs hydro application to vape, and Bennett for battery and ATK. So choosing if and when to use her is a challenging puzzle for a character who would otherwise make even the hardest endgame content into a piece of cake. I also got to play with units I don't own, like Arlecchino, Clorinde, Chevreuse, and my friend's Wriothesley. Overall there's a lot more variety to the game compared to the brain-afk that is unrestricted Spiral Abyss with Neuvillette and Furina.

[@KittyNatiquinha]

The design of the lobby and everything is so beautiful, i hope they keep the aesthetic but with a different challenge

[@BigBadDogIV]

I Love the new End-game mode a lot. I've been playing this game every single day for over 2 years. I have Hated the Abyss ever since I made my way to the end-game. The Abyss has gotten easier since then but my Hatred of that game mode has only increased over time. But I Love the new Imaginarium Theater. I'm somebody who has always preferred having more characters than having more constellations. And on top of that I actually enjoy mixing my characters around to come up with good teams on the spot. I like the Imaginarium much better as end-game content then I will ever feel about the Spiral Abyss.

[@luscioushalustar]

IMO the most restrictive part of Imaginarium Theatre is that it only allow us to choose character from 3 elements only . If we can choose from 5 elements or 4 elements at the least, I bet there would be more people able to access the game and actually make a better team roaster that is actually fun to play.

[@deathwingthedestroyer3632]

Then we may as well just make it SU which I’m all for tbh.

[@Glizzyman]

​@@deathwingthedestroyer3632 PLEASE! can you imagine the cool blessings? Zhongli's preservation with a shield so big it goes to the negatives, Kokomi 1 mil DMG from overhealing.

[@deathwingthedestroyer3632]

@@Glizzyman Xiao would unintentionally become an emanator of The Hunt.

[@WitchesAndRayGuns]

I haven't played this yet, so I can't really comment on your view of it, but I will say this: I feel like you're forgetting the pain of building teams for Spiral Abyss when you start out. It took me a long, long time to feel confident enough in my builds to bother with Abyss. 'Average' players don't have it so easy, and it takes a lot of time and effort to build even two reasonable teams. Imaginarium means building more characters if you want to try the harder modes, but Abyss needs better built characters, and not a few of them. Feels like swings and roundabouts.

[@marqkc]

I really like this comment a lot. Abyss has gotten worse and worse over time since Hoyo intentinally designs bosses/mobs that stall or have (recently-ish) started to add element checks, like 12-1-2 in the current abyss. ... Huh. This made me realize this SUCKS, forcing element bans in IT and also having element checks in Abyss is going to be insufferable!

[@TalkingSoup]

The thing is also that the central conceit of IT is that this is a story you're telling/a play you are putting on--two things that require planning and should never rely on randomness. It falls flat even on a conceptual level.

[@oeurydice]

Not surprised to see this video so soon after Imaginarium Theatre's release

[@7Stormwalker]

Bruh I still haven’t found a crit dmg circlet for Chlorinde and they expect me to build how many characters

[@cheetopuffs4535]

Idk man... not every feature of a game necessarily has to be easy for everyone. You made the good point that this game mode rewards Horizontal Investment. People can choose to do it or not. I personally like the idea of leveling up underused characters. Its a different way of thinking about the resource management. I think its fine.

[@alexliengsky6884]

Pretty good video on covering the issues with the mode! For years, a good portion of the community has always said that you are free to build who you want however you see fit since the game is way too easy and the meta is ridiculous. Now Hoyo has directly attacked that ideal by forcing us to play specific characters on specific conditions and on specific builds. The same company that wants us to farm a specific artifact set for a specific character. I've been stuck grinding Navia's set since it came out and you're telling me I can't even use her on this mode?

[@theclosedcloset9603]

I did a bit of math for imaginarium theatre, and I found that you'd need 42 characters to be able to always be able do hard mode every cycle, you'd need at least 6 characters of every element to reach that requirement. to level just one these characters to level 80 (4 stars in mind and assuming you get 2 drops every time), you'd need to use around 520 resin. to level all 42, you need to use 21,840 resin. to level one weapon to 80 (assuming you get 1 purple, 4 blue and 3 green per cycle), you'd need to use around 200 resin. for all of the weapons to get to level 80, you'd need to use 8,400 resin. so without even farming for talents or artefacts, you've already had to use 30,240 resin to level these characters. that 30,240 resin will take over 151 days to accumulate naturally, but that's assuming you use ALL of your resin as soon as it caps and if you get 200 resin daily. a little under half a year worth of farming every single day and you haven't even touched half of what you need to level characters. I wish hoyo made it so 3 elements would get a bigger buff and it'd be harder to use other elements, but you can still use those other characters

[@Hesgot_apoint]

Why aren't more people talking about this. So many people seem too caught up on the wrong stuff.😅

[@sakiwataru]

Put Level 90 trial characters with average artifacts provided by the game and form a team to do hard challenges, easy as that

[@GH-pf6mw]

i really love the imaginaruim theater, because i'm ALWAYS thinking on the posibilities with characters, and many have told me a lot of times that it's wothless to think so much, just take the strong characters and play, but now who's laughing! i'm the crazy one that plays only girls and takes xinyan to the abyss (when it favors her. i may be crazy but not that much). the buff system, the randomnes, how it asks you to actually use your head on the road. yes, when it goes terrible, it sucks, a lot, but it's the magic of rogue like game modes. oh when you get various free cards in a row, sweet sweet luck. and to add, i had 17 characters total, i wasn't able to do the hard mode, but i got enough to pull 10, i lost the 50/50, but i got keqing. i was looking at my destiny having to level one of the boys, but hoyo saved me from that destiny. i'm not mad, i may not have sigewinne, but i'm free.

[@Zedrinbot]

I ran through it and the first time I got to the end fight, i realized I didn't have any main DPS to do the boss fight, and kept timing out. (Woohoo. More time based combat. Not that it's exactly hard at all, but still, I wish things were more technical than just DPS checks all the time.) After rewinding an act and doing it again, keeping a main DPS available, I was able to clear it in 20 seconds. The randomness doesn't feel like it makes the buffs you get worth anything until the very last fight, and til then it's mostly mindless. Also it's disappointing we can use friend characters for the featured chars, they can only be for supporting cast. But at the same time I kinda wish that the characters were 'normalized' stat wise, and you gradually got to upgrade their stats as you progressed, and remove or change the vigor aspect.

[@geo_ruhark]

"It's extremely easy" vs. "You need to use suboptimal teams" seems like mutually exclusive problems

[@lucasayabe]

Its not, the first is a consequence of the last. They force you to use trash teams, but in return make the chambers super easy to deal so that even a trash team could clear. In my first run for example, i forgot to change my Raiden build, and used a EM Raiden as DPS and even with this i cleared easely the chambers where i used her.

[@marqkc]

Not really. There's two types of suboptimal teams: the ones that will rotate smoothly but just don't deal as much damage as your average meta team and will clear (ex: Taser), and the ones that can clear but don't rotate smoothly and are a SLOG to play (ex: Arlecchino, Sigewinne, Sayu, Wriotheley). Like I love Ga Ming, he's one of my favorite characters. C6 triple crowned, but my GOD using him in this iteration of theater feels SO BAD. I've essentially made him a 4th slot to my Lyney because he feels terrible to play outside of Vaporize/Melt (tbf, Ga Ming feels clunky to play in the first place and not many people talk about that enough, but not having access to his best team options makes that problem worse). It's easy, but it's just... Not fun. Using bad, clunky teams because you're forced to isn't very intuitive.

[@soujiokita6062]

​@@marqkcyeah I put my C6 gaming here too..and it sucks without vape

[@neanahidden]

There’s no way to strategise or plan ahead. You need to play it through to get some idea on what’s coming and then try it all again. And still there’s the randomness to deal with. It forces you to play with characters you might have never used outside the trial run or built. That could be fun but not when it’s mandatory. Now also every unit should be built as a standalone because you have very little saying about their party. (That crippled my Cyno. Wanderer and Lyney for example) The difficulty jumps from sleepy walk in the park to a sudden MOC 12 in the last rounds. I had to play the end round with Baizhu, a borrowed HuTao (I’ve never used), Heizou and the test Arlechino and no fun was had. My favourite thing in the whole game mode so far are the little conversations inside the room and the new photo poses 😂

[@緑-x6z]

I like this game mode. I've been playing for a little more than two years (f2p) and I love building my characters. I invest in their levels, weapons and talents while artefacts really are an afterthought. SA is still decently difficult, but this mode is very nice and fun for me. Also, you don't have to clear it on the "hard mode" right away. Their is only 160 primos difference between "normal" and "hard", so yeah. Also, talking about "wasting materials". IT'S NOT, because this is a permanent game mode now and there are only seven elements in this game. Meaning that leveling some characters from each element will pay off in the long run.

[@saberlily9562]

as a f2p you should know that 160 primos is a lot lol

[@緑-x6z]

@@saberlily9562 I mean, yes, but it's still nothing to stress over too much or wish death on the GI devs (which I've seen quite a lot of since IT launched).

[@HyroDragon-777]

Build too many charactet is bad for your account like if you build noele your not gonna use it in abyss

[@exzeal6521]

@@HyroDragon-777 its not that bad anymore

[@joaomiranda2252]

​@@HyroDragon-777 not once you reach endgame

[@ПетроБілогуб]

Labyrinth Warriors is the same as i remember but where those who shares the memories

[@Spajki]

I completed all 8 acts but getting achievements for 8 boons or 8 caches is pretty hard if you have to also win...

[@spoons2275]

I actually love imaginarium theater I’d rather do the resource management this mode requires than having to deal with 2billion HP enemies in spiral abyss getting screwed over by elemental shields

[@t-m0917]

Rather than restricting elements, IT should buff recommend elements and their reactions similarly to hsr's endgame modes, to encourage veriery and possibly help newer players.

[@Syzgz_z]

So far I’ve gotten to act 4, cried and haven’t touched it since

[@heenthousiast383]

i can't even play the hard difficulty, i am forced to pull characters

[@GH-pf6mw]

one problem i have with the shared charcters system is that if you change the character, that friend is locked, you cannot take any other character from them.

[@jonathanrobinson198]

This mode was fun for me. Granted, I build my characters whenever there’s a calmer patch because I personally think it’s odd to never build a character you own. This mode isn’t even asking for perfection; more of an understanding of what’s on your account. Since this is considered endgame content it’s only natural new players aren’t meant to beat this from the start and while I wish there was an even harder mode for the fun of it, the endgame players I see having legitimate issues beating it are those who strictly adhered to meta units and spent time farming only for them to get perfect artifacts. Kinda hard for me to feel bad for them. Going that hard while ignoring the rest feels like poor resource management. People always say it’s better to have more characters than cons. Apply that to building teams. Do you need the perfect CV piece, or another functioning character who has no pieces at all?

[@mochienn]

i really enjoyed the theater! i’ve spent a lot of time and resources into building a lot of characters, so it’s perfect endgame content for me. i’m also f2p, so the rewards were definitely worth it for me. however, i understand that lower AR players will inevitably not have enough characters because they simply haven’t played as long. building that many characters is extremely time consuming, but it’s meant to be difficult in that sense. the theater is not meant for everyone, much like the abyss. even though it has its flaws, i don’t think it failed as an endgame mode.

[@KazeMemaryu]

I completely agree with you on this. And it's really frustrating to see HSR provide a solid solution, but the Genshin devs act like they gotta figure it out on their own. But to also point in a slightly different direction: Wuthering Waves has a special mode called "Depths of Illusive Realm", in which you pick just one character to fight with, and the buffs focus on turning your character into an absolute monster. It also provides special skills unique to each character that expand the respective gimmicks to ridiculous proportions. I think something to that extent would work quite well in Genshin, where you start with a single character, but earn buffs that gradually provide new properties to the kit. Maybe even add the option to "rescue" a support character which can then be used to call in his skill or burst without switching party members.

[@kuvjason7236]

Even as a day1 player... the seleceted characters they have chosen doesnt necessarily mean that older players will have an easier time. Faruzan for example... shes only usable at C6 and other characters are soo niche that it wasn't even worth to invest into them because others can do their jobs much better

[@FlareBattle]

I had fun with it, but definitely made me realize that Genshin over creates dps characters over off-fielders. Legit, I have Xiangling built not because I like her, but just because she’s the only one that does what she does. There’s, what, maybe Thoma too? 😅

[@JMMidday]

I liked it... I build all my characters at least a bit so I jumped right in and found it fun, and I liked the variety of using all sorts of characters. If you play through it once you know what the bosses are and you can plan to keep specific characters for later rounds. For example, I knew the final round needed pyro, so I planned to keep Arle for it, and I knew wanderer wasn't going to do much for me there so I used him up earlier. I'm excited to see what kind of interesting or janky teams people will come up with. Maybe we'll learn new things. Limitation breeds creativity.

[@bryanmartinez8136]

You see problem, I saw opportunity. I think it is really fun to step out of the usual characters and build others.

[@brawlhelper9040]

I hate the fact that i've to play characters like Scara or Clorinde in order to get the primos i'd get from Abyss. They basically made a boring abyss

[@SuperKevinho1]

Same, but in my case Wanderer and Arlecchino. Forced to use them 4 times (2 for units) and has been a boring chore because I dislike them, plus I had to repeat the stages because I don't know play them well

[@razrafz]

i dont know how to play scara and made me hate him even more with how awful he feels to play (like had to land first before able to swap)

[@PrafulPrasannan-jh1yv]

It looks like yall only hate him because he's the villian in sumeru. He's easily the most fun character since he has the ability to fly. You're supposed to do normal attacks with him till the blue stamina is out. Why tf do you want to swap out a dps?​@@razrafz

[@Zezepo]

5:20 I 100% agree with this statement because I am exactly what he describes as a "horizontal invester" and although it was rough because my units don't do billions of damage I still managed to have a lot of fun with units I have otherwise not touched in a very long time.

[@MisfitGl]

These game mode are designed for skilled whales. No way in the hell I get to compete.

[@astro-byun]

im scared for when theyll make us use cryo and geo 💀 i have no usable characters there

[@RafaelGonzalez-vs2bu]

I think is a good mode and incentives players to build different element characters. Me who didn’t looked at Geo , Cryo, and physical is time to un bench Ningguang, Noelle, Kaeya, Rosaria, and even pull for waifu Eula.

[@grimsdol4665]

Yeah i didn't think much of it but that was because i arleady had enough characters built. but agterwards i realized. yeah the fact that I am required to have over a Dozen characters built well is pretty ridiculous. It's stupid

[@SuperKevinho1]

My problem with this modality, is the restrictions. I play Genshin because I love play with my favorite characters (NO! are not Meta units) and taking off one Abyss Cycle, now I risk to use my favorites less than before (when the main reason why we wanted a new endgame content was exactly to able to play more times your favorite characters). Plus, I don't like so many Genshin characters, and the restriction will force me to play these characters (just now, Im forced to play Arlecchino and Wanderer, that I dislike; those stages were a boring chore, no fun). I think the road that HSR took with Pure Fiction was better: I prefer nerf character/element than totally forbid them. Good that they added an Endgame, but not for this I have to be satisfied (specially because they removed 1 Abyss cycle, that is still endgame content; but they could surely give too many gems...)

[@cocomo111]

Personally, end game for me in Genshin is building my characters. So I've leveled and built almost every single character in Genshin that I own just for fun bc my friends and I like doing 4-star character challenges. This game mode is literally made for me.

[@illidanST7F]

i think its fine and fun, but the problem for me was the element selection since i have fuck all anemo and pyro units, also i wished we could go into the fights with less than 34 units, its annoying having to sacrifice units when 1 guy can kill everything But i guess that woudl make it too easy

[@metarotta]

i wished they brought some of the SU magic over from hsr instead of just a horizontal investment check, the boons buff a tiny bit but you dont get a chance to get enough of them to actually make any major difference especially since youre shuffling from 1 half ass comp to another each act anyways

[@andrewmurphy8234]

I must have been the target audience for this because i have a bunch of characters all reflectively leveled up. Spiral abyss is torture at times. so this was a breath of fresh air getting all the rewards felt achievable and satisfying as a result

[@alsef1500]

I remember genshin once stated that they wouldn’t add any new end game modes Now with the release of Wuthering waves I can feel their fear

[@Binoculars.o7]

I love it and I think people are stressing a bit too much about full clearing it takes more investment than abyss because you need so many characters. I think people are forgetting its supposed to be endgame content and you arguably more so than abyss. also love the randomness because it gives it alot more replayability than abyss does but then again I've been playing since launch and have plenty of characters built so I'm probably biased. And I will say as much as I love it there could be quite a few of improvements made. But I think people expected it to be a dps check like abyss as compared to the investment check it is. *Also asthetically it looks beautiful and I like the Ui even though it could be more simple to understand and I like the themeing of the domains matching the enemies in it. I.e the terror shrrom being in a sumeru style domain etc etc. I love yapping

[@sonnguyen-iv7gv]

It's boring, that's all. The challenge it brings only equals to openworld bosses which is easy af. Bad things are: 1) Buffs don't really matter, they can't change the way a character plays. 2) Team rng makes buff irrelevant, you may have a good overload buff but a match later you can't use that anymore before the game give you 3 pyro and 2 anemo. 3) Veteran players don't find it challenging but less invested players find it impossible to clear because they don't have enough characters.

[@Binoculars.o7]

@sonnguyen-iv7gv I like the rng of it because personally but I get I'm in the minority on that but I think the challenge is meant to be getting the characters built for it, not the content itself but I get what you're saying

[@birbolo302]

Agreed it’s great it just promotes horizontal progression rather than vertical like abyss

[@spacebanana712]

​@@Binoculars.o7you're not in the minority, it's just that the negativity is usually louder so it seems like they're the majority.

[@agiant5715]

​@shining.sacrilege I agree with many of your points but while the RNG is good in theory, as a rougelike lover for games like Hades and Gungeon, I feel this game mode doesnt even go close to enough. Basically as of now the only aspect of the replayability is what dps/support would I get for X act and nothing more which got boring forme after 2 to 3 tries. I wanted it to have alot more RNG aspects like having the booms majority buffed/make the mobs stronger so that for the average player a good RNG would make for a easy casual speedrun-like run while a very unlucky RNG one would lead to even a mini-whale with cracked builds to have a bad time. I think a good example for a gacha that does this is the Depths of Illusive Realm from wuwa. They let you use your characters but not the builds themselves so a player is at the mercy of the items/buffs they get along the run which makes replayability major fun because no 2 runs are the same.