Forgotten Characters - Why Genshin Impact CANNOT Abandon Them

Genshin Impact is about to enter Version 5 in the coming months. With the game reaching four years old very soon I wanted to make a video discussing the game's old and forgotten characters and what could be done to potentially bring them back to relevance.
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[@botondnyitrai3128]

Its not even about characters being underpowered. They are just held back by the mistakes of their own kit. Imagine if Klee's ulti would stay active when swapped out Or if Mona's E would stay on field longer to provide consistent hydro application. Such litle things that would fix these characters and put them back on the radar without removing their identity

[@wriothesleyenjoyer]

Omg, yes, because the main reason why kokomi is used in (hyper)bloom(when there isnt reall a need for heals) is because Mona doesnt have enough application off field(also her constellation related to hydro reactions wasnt updated and it doesnt boost bloom

[@invarkul7831]

Or Eula ult gauge emptying on the press of the button and not at the end of the ult animation. She could be batteried by a single cryo unit if that was the case

[@botondnyitrai3128]

@@invarkul7831 I think she is fine the way she is, what she needs is a dedicated Physical support, preferably an electro healer. I like that her ulti cannot be activated prematurely, makes you consider when to actually use it. Her only problem really is just a lack of team building.

[@invarkul7831]

@@botondnyitrai3128 I'd still would love that qol change even tho it won't help her to be relevant. At this point even ulting on CD is less DPS than 90% of fountain cast

[@grgotoplak1127]

@@botondnyitrai3128 But you can prematurely kick off Eula's ult by switching to another character, but you do lose a lot of potential damage. It's still inferior to all front-loaded ults, especially when fighting high-mobility/teleporting enemies. I'd prefer they dumped the physical damage all toghether and re-built her as a proper cryo unit.

[@Laserstormelpies]

"but they cant bring back all of them" - cause itto has already been booked for the main event of every other version...

[@VarsII]

TRUE THAT MAN APPEARS SO OFTEN 🤣

[@stylerxo3654]

At least we know the events will be entertaining.

[@rodrign007]

He has so many events but no reruns 😭

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

Itto is something boring & unfunny to me

[@rodrign007]

@@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive interesting take, I feel like half of the reason I’m sold on him is because of the eng voice actor

[@nplusk]

“This is still a video game, not a visual novel” 😂😂 every ‘quest’ in the last 2 years would beg to differ

[@TheFoolishSamurai]

I'm still reeling from Sigewinne's SQ. That was just a slog

[@CJdoesntlikehandles]

depends on the quest

[@nplusk]

@@CJdoesntlikehandles talk for 20 minutes, walk 20 feet, talk for 20 minutes, repeat 😂

[@justapasserbyrandomperson9325]

Real, besides Chlorinde's story quest, literally every quest is just Paimon blabbering nonsense 90% of the time

[@CJdoesntlikehandles]

​@@nplusk for the most part yeah, though theres at least always some sort of gameplay section(s) (especially in the larger world quests (like remuria's, which was actually mostly gameplay))

[@tbib6dw2]

Other old 5 stars: dying Kazuha: naku weed everyday

[@ra6765]

Hu Tao and Childe still rocking it hard tho

[@CharlesBronson-uv3dq]

@@ra6765 Yep, especially if newer chars liften the older up. Like Furina did to Hu Tao or Noelle.

[@vladys001]

As a newer player I pulled for Ayaka on her last rerun. She turned out to be my worst choice

[@Tempest27]

Lol you skipped Navia for ayaka😂​@@vladys001

[@vladys001]

@@Tempest27 funnily enough I got lucky and got Navia at 30 pity. But thank you for your gloating, I already mentioned how I regret pulling for 'Cryo queen'

[@Lilp2020]

Klee would make a decent come back if they simply made her burst stay active while off-field. Her Pyro application would be insanely good.

[@ivann9924]

If she were that way, she would never fell off especially with the meta

[@sgb1983sgb]

​@@ivann9924 Well, there is a 4-star pyro applicator who is in the meta since times immemorial. So, if we have "Yelan is a 5-star XQ" situation, so why there could not be "Klee is a 5-star XL"? Klee's fault is her being released in 1.X era. // sad triple-crowned Klee owner

[@zerovking7629]

Yeah but they aint never gonna buff characters

[@Rayne-ih5yf]

She never would have left the meta cuz imagine klee having that burst aswell as her constellation def shred she'd be so broken

[@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person]

The thing is, it would remove her from her role as a main DPS, one that she fails. Her whole kit is meant for you to NA and CA and throw dodokos. The ult is for her to keep doing NAs and CAs stronger, not to buff others with pyro application. However, I do believe she shouldn't had be a on-fielderDPS in the first place. She is a catalyst yet her range is short, and she is quite clunky with her animations, especially if you compare with other pyro on-fielders whom have a smoother playstyle. She should have been a quickswap sub-dps instead, throwing dodokos, ulting and giving pyro for an on-fielder. They could even make her CA trigger her bombs thrown by the skill.

[@EmiliaBestWifi]

Except for Venti, every Mondstadt characters feel like a standard character, and their kits were really simple in this economy.

[@usmanya5110]

that seems like good way to see it.

[@zente3003]

Such were the times, the game was yet to come to its own. Sometimes, it is only natural for units to feel outdated

[@NeoCarl29]

Eula's design still stands up

[@stefanobesliu6458]

Depends. Venti's kit is very basic for an archon. Imo, sucrose has way more depth than Venti. Venti's kit is hard-carried by anemo's specialty. Other than that, he is pretty bare-bones. The energy passive is great and the ult is one of the most fun in the game, but he just feels very clunky and suboptimal to play for today's standards. Power-wise, we can say that venti is still limited banner, but barely. Kit-wise though, i wouldnt consider him a limited one. I always feel like kazuha is an updated venti. That guy aged so well. Even better than archons.

[@pitagor2]

Eula was released after Xiao and Hu Tao and Ganyu, it's just liyue bias from the devs all their liyue 5* characters get new supports and are just generally better while monstadt 5*s eat dirt

[@bandelby5365]

The fact all 4 of the characters on the thumbnail were on that one special banner with 3 Limiteds, i forgot its name

[@steffy23456]

Chronicled

[@iluvchess14736]

Feel like that was intentional

[@rosies69]

Chronicle wish banner dumb dumb

[@kostakonomi]

It had so much potential only to be ruined by how limited it was

[@s4tya_ae885]

​@@rosies69you are dumb

[@rittai__]

I loved when they put Xinyan in the story in that 2.8 event, every old character deserves a moment like that where the player can truly meet them and see more than numbers. Because character is far more important than numbers. Happiness from having a character you love is temporary, and damage will disappear from your screen in seconds

[@danielferrieri7434]

Genshin Should have triple banners giving us a brand new character, a recently new and an old character.

[@Zyrobot]

I feel like it would put pressure onto new players as they have to pick between three characters, but then again this game doesn’t really care about newer players.

[@catbugrer]

​@@Zyrobotthis game values new players more then endgame ones, adding another banner would make it easier for new players to get good characters and hurt old ones that already have them if anything

[@cornbread9512]

@@ZyrobotWhich means players feel forced to spend money since they’re stingy with rewards. It’s genius and I won’t be surprised if they do quadruple banners lmfao.

[@Accountthatexists]

This system is just FAR better then the terrible chronichled wish banner, just have 3 or 4 banners run at a time so people can a least GET the old chars that THEY WANT

[@a-passerby]

​@@Zyrobot For whom are they reducing difficulty, adding most random QoL (which are mostly useless for older players) and so on...?? They literally say this in every livestream that "this new function will help the newer players who are/were facing difficulties before"..... 😅

[@procrastinationexpert9320]

I would love for Genshin to implement a similar system to HI3rd's Core Augments, where an old character gets a new skin, some new mechanics and better skills, often representing some form of character growth within the story. Or something like Awakening Quests tied to the Character Stories like with F/GO. After clearing it, the character skills get brought up to par with more recent characters' skill scalings.

[@a-k4750]

This. Hoyo should just make quests that are only available at lvl 90 and improve the character's base kit. That way everyone is happy: the characters stay meta relevant but only if you are willing to invest time in them.

[@giyuusaan]

VENTI PART 2 STORY QUEST??!!????

[@lakkycharms]

Tbh they only gave core augemenf to free to play units (asterite/sp units) which don’t have a Genshin equivalent and there’s a a reason honkai stopped doing them powercreep is eternal eventually even those augments get power crept if they were ever even meta hoyo can’t balance them

[@KingMufasa_8]

​@@giyuusaan idk why people keep asking for this. Hoyo is trying to save venti for last and cook up a goated story quest and people like you are so damn impatient. Why?

[@witherking97]

@@KingMufasa_8 I really hope his 2nd story quest involves his connection to the shade of time.

[@trdl23]

FGO (for once) has the right idea: side quests to give old units buffs so they can keep up

[@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person]

Imagine a Klee story quest all about her relationship with her mother, lots of lore about the hexenzirkel but with the perspective of one of the witches' child, and at the end, we unlocked off-field application on her ult and a generous buff so she became at least a sidegrade of a meta pyro dps, or at least they made her into an actual 5* alternative to Xiangling whom isn't as ER hungry as her, and all of that in a Klee Re-run banner, maybe on children or mother's day. Imagine if they built it up with marketing and all of that. It would sell way more than just dropping her on a chronicle wish or an event.

[@rainkunii]

i feel like the only way to deal with this issue is to start releasing more SUPPORT units, like shenhe

[@Hoyodeaf_bring_PJC_back]

You: =Gives a opinion= Hoyoverse: =Yes=

[@Ixy_Phoenix_Office]

​@@Hoyodeaf_bring_PJC_back Genshin:No Hsr:YESSS

[@Hoyodeaf_bring_PJC_back]

@@Ixy_Phoenix_Office Genshin: not the favorite child. Hsr: the favorite child.

[@lakkycharms]

Shenhe is a bad example people clearly don’t pull for her since genshin refuses to rerun her

[@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person]

​@@lakkycharms She's too much niche. Her kit would be excellent for a 4 star, but for a 5 star, she shouldn't be just a Rosaria that buffs cryo a whole lot. I think 4* should all be about support, sub-dps and niche roles, and 5* all about on-fielders and characters with great role compression or characters that play completely different than all other characters, necessitating a whole team archetype for them( Like Furina or Arlecchino). Also, a c6 4* should be as good, even numbers-wise, than a 5* in their role. I do expect for example for Candace C6 to be a 5* level support for Ayato or Arlecchino and I do expect C6 Faruzan to be Anemo Shenhe. it's hard to get a C6 for a 4*, so I should have a worthy character for that.

[@chrisiglesias1273]

What's funny is that they already have a solution, the chronicle wish banner, but we've only seen it once, like- bro

[@Brownyan]

But see that's just for distribution it doesn't add to their power

[@arocomisgamusclademork1603]

@@Brownyan first half like were allow play private server

[@sambitbasu1921]

*they add chronicled banner* people: "its a scammm!! genshin could neverrr" *they remove chronicled banner* people: "omgg genshin could never"

[@ziephel-6780]

@@sambitbasu1921 it's not that the banner itself is a bad idea, just that the way it was implemented was flawed to begin with

[@FosforitoDuracell]

Chronicled banner should have used acquaint fate instead of intertwined fate if they wanted people to pull on it. They screwed it up.

[@traplegend5065]

Honestly with so many old characters still being super strong or very usable is great. Star rail has more powercreep with only a year in the bag

[@livingreverie5951]

Back when I still played The power five was like 3/4th (Xing Qiu, Xiangling, Fischl) of my team as Kaeya was my main on field phys DPS And carried me through All content till I quit I was that budgeted cause I was saving and building for Eula and had her team ready to go (Beidou, Diona) and still had a member of power 5 on standby (Bennett)

[@paulyvii]

Yeah the difference between Acheron + Firefly and every other DPS is crazy. If future DPS aren't on Acheron or FIrefly's level then there's just no reason to pull for them lmao

[@wage942]

The difference between Acheron + Firefly to Jing Yuan and Seele is crazy and powercreep is coming fast, but they’re still viable, Seele now being really good in Apocalyptic Shadow, I myself used her in n the gamemode and had zero issues (I’m not coping i swear)

[@astralcomet674]

​@wage942 I can't tell if your joking or not😂

[@agzane268]

@@paulyvii it doesn't help that endgame content is CONSTANTLY tailored around which character has just been released. I couldn't clear MOC 12 or PF4 for weeks. I finally got firefly after 145 wishes and cleared easily without even fully leveling or building her. It's insanity

[@Raykushi]

Here are my thoughts on this. People often complain that the end game is not difficult enough, but then they also complain that characters are too weak. I find this to be contradictory stances for the community to hold. Genshin draws a really nice balance between being approachable with every unit while still being somewhat challenging for even the stronger units - the game doesn't get enough credit for that. My main point here is that 1 problem acts as another's solution: The content is easy enough that as long as you build well and play well, you can clear basically anything in the game with any unit - yeah it won't be as easy as if you were to use Arlecchino/Neuvilette, but as long as you can earn every reward, you don't have to care about what is "meta". Genshin currently doesn't have any pvp element either, so players feel no pressure to compete against a stronger team. So, as someone who owns Albedo and not Chiori, I don't feel particularly miffed about her existence. I can still use Albedo in my mono-geo team and see the same success as if Chiori was in it - what do I care if Chiori would help me clear 15 seconds faster if my clear is still under 3 minutes in Spiral Abyss?

[@VrtielA6300]

Everyone meant to turning Spiral Abyss into actual PVP place instead.

[@Chockitkat]

Finally someone who understands that META is not reliable because it's always changing, and also, I agree. As someone with Chiori and Albedo who got both of them, I don't think that Chiori powercreeps Albedo. Albedo just needs a rerun for his sword, that's all honestly. If Albedo's BIS weapon comes back, he would definitely be better. I use Albedo more than my Chiori just because his Kit is so much easier

[@denleitej]

Sorry Vars but a lot of gachas do give attention to old characters to make them relevant again, maybe not meta, but they make them usable in newer content. PGR, FGO, Granblue Fantasy, Dragalia Loat (RIP), Epic Seven, Aether Gazer and so on. All of them have a way of giving some love to old characters and also make them likeable in story content. YES, Genshin makes it perfectly to the point we have a lot of freaks in the community but this is not a 'Genshin started it' and more like a 'Genshin made it obvious'.

[@VarsII]

Good point yeah. That’s a better way to put it haha

[@Random2]

Eula (and freminet, razor and possibly others by side-effects) solution: A chevreuse style support character for superconduct. Let's kill two birds with one stone and make it an electro shielder, and voila. Physical is (minimally) back on the menu! The funny thing with physical is really the lack of any support being released, but if they release faruzan, chevreuse, and other very niche focused characters, they can do the same with good ol' superconduct.

[@EternaMidnight]

I've wanted an electro shielder for so long

[@ivann9924]

You guys didn't count beidou? Or just wanted a new character with better scaling?

[@leonardoalvarenga7572]

Mika buffs physical. And yeah, like the person above said, Beidou is an Electro Shielder at C1.

[@Random2]

@@leonardoalvarenga7572 Mika buffs physical, yes. Do you think Mika was enough to make physical become substantially better in the grander scheme of things ?

[@leonardoalvarenga7572]

@@Random2 He's about as underwhelming as Kujou Sara, limão.

[@Xedric-0]

8:20 The pinnacle of Klee's team now is the overload comp using Chevreuse. As a 1.0 Klee main I can tell you handily that she has NEVER felt better than she does now with Klee, Shogun, Beidou, and Chevy. It feels great to be able to bounce between Klee and Shogun, using whichever carry has their burst up while Chevy absolutely decimates defenses. Beidou is just there because muh pirate queen. I could easily run Benny, Xiangling, or Fischl and do even more damage.

[@pepita2437]

Yeah. Diluc aslo got a lot of great support, like Xienyun and Furina, which brought him up to standard.

[@stylerxo3654]

Klee's best team is Furina National.

[@goodguyamr6996]

I salute your dedication

[@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person]

Klee can proc Beidou's ult so it's even better, but I do think this team could improve if we have an "Electro Layla" or something.

[@lestatstaton7856]

I will never get over them finally releasing a dedicated physical support and he requires C6 and even then hes still not very good with the only real Physical carry. They even have lore connection for both being knights of favonious. And they didnt even debut him on a Eula Banner!!!! WTF?!?!

[@wriothesleyenjoyer]

They did debut him on a Eula banner??? he is good with the physical carry, he buffs atk speed which eula as a claymore kinda needs, he buffs pjysical, he heals which is honestly needed since you probably wont be using Zhongli or another dmg mitigation or healer, and i havent used him but im pretty sure he does buff physical dmg even c0 its just that the bigger buff comes from c6, just like gorou, sara, and faruzan

[@davidamasceno7737]

@@wriothesleyenjoyer they didn't. It was a patch with a main event in Mondstadt, yet they thought it would be suited to have Dehya/Cyno and Ayaka/Shenhe banners. Mika debuted on the last one. His rerun, though, was with Eula/Klee.

[@lestatstaton7856]

@@wriothesleyenjoyer no he didnt. He debuted with Ayaka and Shenhe. That would have been extremely easy to check before commenting. Atk speed on claymores isnt as good as it should be because they have hit lag on impact. His speed buff only gets Eula 1 more hit/stack for her ult. Diona is one of Eulas best supports because she Shields, heals, and most importantly with Sac Bow gives a lot of energy that Eula really needs. If you don't know what your talking about, don't comment.

[@Cajun_Seasoning]

@@wriothesleyenjoyer a physical support that isnt good enough to be actual physical characters bis teammate is something of a joke tbh

[@usmanya5110]

@@lestatstaton7856 Mika also suffered from hefty competition in non furina eula teams cause they is also rosaria who has a lower skill cooldown if you want energy.

[@occidere8437]

A7 passives babyyyyyyyy. Seems unlikely, but its the best non-balance patch way I can think of for Hoyo to retroactively buff the old characters directly.

[@8niidle13]

Funnily enough I use Albedo every single day for farming with my Neuvillette team because I like having that tiny bit of stagger resistance from his crystalize shields and his flower is much quicker to put down than getting Zhongli's shield. He also does more off-field dmg than Zhongli's dmg. With this team i have managed my personal best time in the GT/MH + it's nice that I can actually use Def% GT pieces for him. So I still love and play him lol

[@ButterDJar]

hoyoverse made the library event thing, which made all of us the need to build multiple characters that suffice the requirements. That's what i like imo.

[@saimfaisal6795]

Yeah we aren't seeing Klee or Albedo resurface anytime soon. They'll be saved for chronicled, and replaced with Chiori and any other pyro DPS. Some old units age well though, like Hu Tao and Xiao to an extent.

[@zente3003]

@saimfaisal6795 the Liyue cast is more or less good and well,

[@saimfaisal6795]

I agree. Even Ganyu, who's probably doing the worst out of the Liyue- limited characters, has still found a way to be used more like a sub DPS to buff Ayaka and Wriothesley. Mondstadt has just been dealt a bad hand​ @@zente3003

[@kcamui__]

funny enough, ganyu used to be the dps metric in the past and now between the three of them, she's the one with less updates or buffs nowadays. not saying she's already bad or she doesn't perform well anymore but compared to the amount of buffs and/or relevance hutao and xiao still has now, it's a bit unfortunate for her.

[@iiKhaled0]

​@@kcamui__the problem is in cryo itself not ganyu, even ayaka and wrio are facing same problems

[@kcamui__]

@@iiKhaled0 yeah mainly that too really. I only mentioned Ganyu because of Hu tao and Xiao as she's part of the Liyue Big Three too lol

[@Beztebyo]

i still main klee and Mona from time to time i just have to switch my main dps catalyst weapon, they are one of my fav characters

[@dragonhero14]

My biggest issue with Genshin is that Hoyoverse refuses to update character stats. They don't need to do it every month or release. They could just do it once every year. Venti is nearly unplayable in Sumeru and Fontaine. Klee has an elemental burst that goes away if you switch off her character and has extremely low damage. Geo really needs damage buffs. Even Dehya, who was nerfed before release, did poorly on release despite players warning she was too weak/niche. I understand that it's a Gacha game. But by not updating the game balance, it really reduces player investment into the game. Especially when your goal is to keep people logging in everyday.

[@beestek.94]

They won't update characters unless it's a Chinese inspired character like Zhongli. Why would they? That's additional work + no revenue for them. They would just release a more powerful character, thus making more revenue.

[@pocketproductions7206]

@@beestek.94another reason too is they can’t nerf characters no matter how strong they are, due to the rules in china especially with gatcha games anything like characters or weapons that encourages or NEEDS to spend money to get can’t be nerfed since people spent money specifically for them meaning they shouldn’t risk any buffs since they can’t go back, that’s why zhong is still the best shield in the game to a ABSURD degree

[@jadecoolness101]

@@pocketproductions7206 that's a myth. There's no law that makes gacha companies unable to nerf units. Read the tos. In summary, their servers, their rules. The fact we get primos for free means these characters do not "have to" be paid for. The reason gacha companies don't nerf is simply because it'd piss players off, the company would get a bad reputation.

[@victorpedrosoceolin3919]

Even limbus company cant nerf because of korean laws, and they are not the slithest greedy I think it's because you cant change a product someone already bought, like, you see a thing, you get it, but a week later you have a worst version of it

[@victorpedrosoceolin3919]

Maybe they could add new levels or new talents for every character that puts a patch on their problems, like uptie 4 in limbus, but it's not a fix

[@Emiryyon]

Implementing level 100 / ascension 7 with a new ascension passive could be the solution to bring back some characters and fix some character's kit :)

[@ukyorulz]

I still use my Mona all the time. I see her as a damage buffer in the same vein as a VV holder. Her buff might not necessarily be as good... but she offers additional off-field hydro application and hydro resonance.

[@w444rbv]

Mona can complete with c3 furina buff Nobless 20 atk 60 dmg omen Ttds 48 atk C4 20 crit rate

[@w444rbv]

For a team like ayaka shenhe kazuha you can't use furina because of the healing unavailability unless c6 mona is good

[@BloodReaper95]

Only thing is her duration, the buff is good.

[@tayschrinngaming8002]

They could take a page from Fate Grand Order and implement "Strengthening quests" Where older characters goes through a quest to improve skills and/or ult, essentially killing two birds with one stone by making old favorites up to par with newer characters as well as adding to their story.

[@danish2.012]

No matter how bad dehya and garbage she is according to the community, i always believed fom the beginning that she will have her own usages later on. After fontaine's release she has found some spots in lyney and neuvilette team, as a valuable member to help with the staggering resistance as well giving a good pyro application for neuvi teams. There may be some potentails for her later in natlan who knows

[@lunaredelvour2972]

I lost my kaz 50/50 to Dehya on his most recent rerun. I'm still really confused on her skill and ult being on the same character, because her skill feels like excellent support and her ult feels like the kind of thing you give to a DPS. but I've loved her as a support on vaporize teams if benny and xiangling were needed elsewhere. popped her on a team with C6 Barbara and tanky thoma as an experiment and ayato just. did not. die. it got ridiculously funny after a while. I'm not a die hard dehya fan, but she's definitely grown on me and I'm hoping she gets some much-needed love and attention in natlan when it comes out, maybe through indirect buffs (she might even be not so bad with emilie, if she likes burning. but I don't know much about her kit so I can't say)

[@VrtielA6300]

Still... Nothings more than everyone hates Keqing

[@komi-samabeliever7319]

I put Dehya in Clorinde team and she did wonders for her interruption resistance. Paired with Thoma for better shield and pyro infusion, and Chev for obvious reasons, I'm shredding everything! Watching everything goes boom, boom, boom is so damn fun. But yeah, her ult really does a head scratcher every time I saw it got filled. Like, what should I do with it? Killing the combat pace? I hate the fact that I must ignore it and shouldn't press it if I want more damage and stability per rotation, considering it's one of a cooler burst too IMO. It's a damn shame that they tried to make her a tank and cannon at the same time, and when it doesn't work, it just massively fails at every aspect possible.

[@ethanmiller631]

your solution was heard, now abyss 12 only caters to the current banner characters

[@FN-170]

I think this is where gacha like dokkan and fgo won over mihoyo made ones. Those two at least try to give older unit relevancy with some buff quest or awakening of some kind. Hope mihoyo implement this, maybe give us quest to upgrade a characters kit so they don't become too unrelevant.

[@alexanderluna4598]

Awakenings usually only end up creating a larger divide because the fan favorites get awakenings and become even more broken.

[@AGLSuperSaiyanBroly]

We love EZAs and SEZAs.

[@buttermanaws4693]

Honestly i do feel like Genshin has this weird problem where it wants to be story first focusing on characters with set builds/design but its hamstrung by gameplay and monetary insensitive as when they have characters in stories they (more often than not) have the character appear in the banner to the point that a character can feel out of place sometimes Its something that really happens because Genshin's lore and gameplay doesn't really have a way to make old characters viable/needed as Genshin is just not that type of game (or at least its failed to do that) and even if they did due to this being a gacha they either recreate the inazuma problem or recreate the enkonomia problem

[@wriothesleyenjoyer]

its because most people liked genshin for the unique combat system, so since the players are combat focused they cant really focus on story

[@lakkycharms]

The game has too many things to balance it can’t only focus on the story or the characters since they have different groups of players playing for different reasons

[@MooneyBabbler]

Where are you getting the notion that the story and the gameplay are at odds? How does a character being on the banner while they’re getting story focus “feel out of place”? Wouldn’t it be the opposite? What does powercreep have to do with inazuma’s poor story writing or enkanomiya’s multilayered exploration without a multilayered map (unless those aren’t what you were referring to, in which case what exactly are Inazuma and enkanomiya problems)? I’m not really connecting the dots here

[@buttermanaws4693]

@MooneyBabbler I guess to clarify To me story and gameplay are at odds because genshin wants to give all its characters a time to shine, but it has this somewhat strong rule where a character has to be featured in the story to be on a banner (again not set in stone especially for reruns or archons but still stands very strong), this creates a problem where sometimes characters are just "in" the story even if it's for a few seconds just to justify them being on the banner, you can kinda tell for some characters when they are not part of the main friend group and are very silent or are absent for a large part of the story because they don't have a real reason to be there And as for the inazuma problem it kinda goes back to what I was saying before of characters needing to be in the story to be on banners where it's a lot harder to have inazuman characters in random events somewhere else because they very rarely have reasons to leave, Itto is somewhat immune to this as events get created around him but for other characters they really have no way to naturally be involved, I think the summer event was still in my mind when I wrote this (the one with Eula, Klee, Ayaka, Kokomi) where the main group and the outside group really only have general banter among each other with one group being mostly ignored And now for the power/past characters, I was mostly talking about how weaker older characters will obviously get rerun less as they are just weaker and genshin has no way to make older characters stronger or make alt versions so those old characters don't have a gameplay incentive to be pulled/rerun, this also hurts the story as if a character just is not good they just won't return at all even in story Not sure if I answered everything "right" or anything but I guess I hope it at least clarifies my weird thoughts on a 3 month old video

[@usmanya5110]

ngl alot of the 1.0 characters except for the Power five, Childe, the Liyue dps Trio(Even if Ganyu has fallen off hard.), Zhongli(post buff), Kazuha and venti (in the situation he works in and probably the most basic kit for an archon.) are pretty mixed They could end up being buffed like Diluc, Keqing, Jean, Noelle and Klee or powercrept like Albedo(sad that he suffered it more than Ayato) or suffer from serious issues or serious competition like Eula, Razor or Mona.

[@dhruvacharya-wx4bj]

Razor got saved because he can be used as a burgeon driver with c6 bennett and c6 xingqiu and that team is actually great even for f2p because you can use dendro traveler

[@erronblack3462]

the only issue eula has is not having good supports

[@VBandit47]

I've been saying this for literally years now: more of the older 5 stars NEED to be added to the standard pool. And all probability needs to be slightly raised. It's a fucking no-brainer.

[@DottorNapoli]

There is another way to make old characters relevant again, also, this would make players who possess said characters happy and give players who don't possess them a reason to wish for them. Copying the "Extreme Z-Awaken" (eza for short) mechanic from Dokkan Battle. With this mechanic older characters get their own stage where players farm their materials and general rewards to give to them. When a character gets those material its level cap increases and its kit gets upgraded. For example: they could make a new domain where you can get materials for Eula to ascend her to level 100 and unlock a new strong ascension talent to make her relevant in the meta. Her passive ascension talent could be something like this: Eula gains a 30% bonus damage(applied at the end of the damage calculation formula); 30% attack speed; Her burst gets her max stacks increased (if needed); Eula gains the ability to ignore shields (by shields i mean everything that stands between Eula's damage and the enemies hp bar)

[@OP-vf9yk]

I feel like one way to make older characters relevant is the ability to level them up to 100 and giving them 1 or 2 new passive abilities. They could give a character like qiqi cryo infusion to her normal attacks after she uses her skill and lower enemy cryo res when they have that tag she puts on them. This wouldn’t make her meta per say but she would have a lot more relevance to people interested in cryo units (especially if hoyo revives that element in Natlan or seznya)

[@MooneyBabbler]

I mean I feel like an easier way to buff Qiqi is to just let her skill give energy, it’s really the only thing making her as bad as she is (I mean, she’d still be outclassed, but at least not an active burden on your team)

[@luckysgi-5karrow378]

The notion of being able to pass all content in the game with non-meta and "bad" characters with "enough investment" has been proven time and time again by people like Eakes that it is an *extremely copium take*. Anyone can try... But you wont be having fun failing and resetting to get that low chance of clearing just the one time you need. And with Genshin's end game content being on a rotation obviously favoring current banner characters.... Good luck. The early days of resetting tons of times to 36-star Abyss with just high refined 3-star weapons with 4-star characters are over. Even enemies got powercrept. They warmed people up with powercreep in HSR and tested it in Genshin with similar results. Then they ran with it hard.

[@kkobayashi9882]

Meanwhile Zhongli, Benny, Xiangling, XQ, Xiangling, Fischl and Kazuha

[@usmanya5110]

Childe and Hu tao aswell like all of these characters are literally everywhere.

[@iiKhaled0]

Zhongli is not that good, he is overrated af, most people who use him either play on mobile or really lazy to dodge

[@CritsVG]

​​@@iiKhaled0 I'd argue on the contrary, he has gained more value recently due to mono Element hypercarry teams like Arlecchino or Neuvillette becoming a lot more viable, so Archaic Petra finally has a great and consistent use on very strong teams.

[@iiKhaled0]

@@CritsVG you do have a point, but I don't see him worth pulling for, whenever I need a shield on a team, I just use layla and she gets the job done, although I may be losing the archaic petra buff and his res shred, it is not that big of a deal, he is too niche to me to pull for ( yes, he can be used in alot of teams, probably most hypercarry teams, but Im only talking about teams where he is the best option)

[@CritsVG]

@@iiKhaled0 Also fair 👍 I think people who like him as a character can get him without any regrets, but I also see your point of view. Guess for me it's hard to really imagine, have had him since the day of his release.

[@danielm5535]

One factor preventing relevance of older characters is the artifact system- so much RNG, it’s impossible to gear any character well, forbid even to go back and upgrade older characters. I’m a v1.3 player and most of my characters are stuck with Wanderer’s Troupe or Gladiator, or 2pc sets. For the last few months, I’ve been trying to farm a set of Severed Fate for my Shogun, and I’ve gotten ZERO useable pieces.

[@Kastor774]

It took me halfway through 3.x to get an in-set ER% piece for Raiden. Good luck.

[@melinda-elisatatar4253]

They really should do a better job with the artifacts

[@wwvdh1761]

Nice idea, I am already using Klee for a specific role in that regard. She is my main abyss mage killer (except the pyro of course) in any situation (domains, overworld, events).

[@totallynotfangirl8102]

I actually like how imaginarium theater forces you to choose units that you may have never played because there was no need. I literally built my Yanfei and Sayu because of the limitations, and you know what? I had fun playing them

[@BladeSerph]

Too bad that fks over newer players, people with bad luck and those who save up to focus on specific units for optimization. Plus if over half the roster is not available each rotation, that flips off MANY people even if old units. Then throw in you need to invest in talents, levels and so on just fks people over. Plus now apparently you need level 90+ units with intimacy being level 80 and it has to be ONE of the featured units plus you land locked to maybe 1-2 month waiting periods to get the ‘so called beeg reward?’ Those stupid trail effects is just Ephemera from warframe and lots of those things were FREE PERIOD, for people early on till they went rather degenerate waaaay after I left that game. If they wanna really reward people for crazy investment time limited stuff, it should be an alternate outfit at bare minimum but better way would be unique signature 5 star weapons as a trial reward for said units while acting as DLC for units you would NEVER use in the first place and using gacha currency for a signature weapon to improve UNDERPOWERED USELESS UNITS, would be pointless. Since the only reason some units went fking crazy was OP stuff like Kokomo straight up getting a signature artifact set that made her insanely broken as a result when she was originally ‘trash’ before. Moral of story: Mihoyo spits on too many faces and whoever copiums they ain’t doing anything wrong are really need to get away from Genshin for atleast an entire year and see how much it helps thar mental health. Hell them introducing weapon skins to have the theater let you get character specific skins to match up with the character would have been a much better value. And punishing gray raven has been for nearly 5’years had free to farm on release outfits and also weapon ‘coating’ skins every month, so it’s not that hard for mihoyo who is ‘way more rich’ to put overlays on stuff. Since even people been nodding over the characters on PC with ease. Which if they put it over a 30+ skin without anything extra like special particle effects, animations and moar, then why bother spend when you can just slap shriek on Diluc and replace his wolf gravestone with a ‘keep out of my swamp’ sign and proceed to smite all those squatters who Lee roaming in your swamp.~

[@mikhaelis1447]

​@@BladeSerph There's a reason why its an Endgame mode, its for ENDGAME players not NEW players 😭

[@TheFoolishSamurai]

If only we could then put them in teams where their niches can actually be spotlighted. With how much the current IT randomizes them and limits their scope of use without any compensation, this can end up worsening biases older players have towards these units they've avoided touching long ago. Units like Chevreuse and Overload teams NEED each other to create something that doesn't feel and play awful

[@BladeSerph]

@@mikhaelis1447 then why market it as a rogue’lite, hand out freebie ‘trial’ units and basically make it take over what appears to be 6+ months just to have a valid team comp if you are severely lacking units in the elements that run? If they don’t bother to reduce the grind time after 5 years of this crap, then why bother playing if older players won’t have enough time to acquire resources to prepare characters they had no reason to work on. While newer players will have no reason to care about doing it besides primogems or something, so they will be forced to struggle on early stays and waste resources to prepare units for that but also SUFFER because they also need to prepare resources for units on spiral abyss. It’s a no win situation of stress. Meanwhile I can be happy that wuthering waves has wasted no time dumping around 4 x2 resource events recently to make the grind to get my stuff to the 70s just that much faster. Oh and gen’stingie still has that day of the week resource lock if I recall correctly, which is just an extra burning cigarette, on your exposed wounds from said cuts.. Anyway, it just goes to show that gen’stingie ain’t doing a good job trying to entice people, especially those immune to fan’service bull’shite that we know the characters will be hard nerfed ingame. Cause we all know the ‘Himeko’ character is probably gonna have Rosaria’s or Jeanne’s body model type and likely have the body shape MASSIVELY NERFED compared to the banner art. Just like they did with Ittou and just like how they literally just drew lines on ‘dendro rule 63 Keqing.’

[@totallynotfangirl8102]

@@BladeSerph hey, I'm sorry you don't like the new gamemode, but please put that in your own comment instead on landing a dump on my enjoyment of old units. Nothing of what you said has anything to do with my comment

[@Destiny87]

I think you're a bit off base here. You're correct that if a player is attached to a unit they'll keep using that unit no matter how "bad" they are. But you also work under that premise that players will abandon characters once they're no longer useful. Determined players will always find a way to make them useful. As for ways to increase desire for units, the best way is to release more story/hang out quests. I have no doubt that Yoimiya got a lot of converts after her 2nd story quest. The other way is to do what other gatcha games do: release new versions of units. The vision system locks characters into certain elements, but you could still do stuff like Polearm Eula, or Catalyst Albedo. That way players can enjoy using better versions of their favourites. HSR does this a bit with the releases of IL Dan Heng and Hunt March.

[@VarsII]

Determined players make up an extreme minority of the player base. I’m speaking in regards to the majority. Most people are trend followers.

[@Destiny87]

@@VarsII Nah, majority are casual players that would sooner ignore end game content than spend hours grinding for optimal builds. I remember Doro looking at an account that only has Lisa at level 90 and everyone else at level 1. If they pull for a new character it's not because of the meta, but because they like that character.

[@kananana774]

​@@Destiny87 Ah, I remember that account. The funny thing was that they kept pulling for five stars they wouldn't level up instead of Kagura's verity. Not mention Lisa's weapon wasn't even leveled to 90, if I remember correctly.

[@columbinadamselettefan]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@VarsIIfrom my experience, inside the actual game majority of players play characters because they like them, ive found significantly more dedicated mains compared to meta players in coop (and i play coop quite a lot).

[@purp1e200]

@@VarsII Nah, most people in Genshin are just waifu/husbando enjoyers who pull for the characters they like. You also can't expect most players to follow trends or meta in a gatcha game since a lot of them are F2P or low spenders.

[@cyberneticant6813]

Instead of contrived scenario's, contrived support units may also be a good way to return interest to older characters. For instance how Xianyun put Diluc back in the game and how Furina helped a variety of healers. It wouldn't be hard to for instance set up a character that gives good physical damage support in some way to help physical attackers get some attention. Given the amount of variables present in Genshins combat, a lot of these can be used to help out unorthodox characters without having to alter their kits too much as thats less sustainable.

[@solarflaredragoon]

Just buff old characters, especially 1.0 or OG characters. A lot of them could have more to their kits to give them more power/support.

[@cringe805]

No chances for that, people won't spend money on new characters if old ones work just fine

[@arocomisgamusclademork1603]

@@cringe805 except Limited time challange like Saurian Seach than Spiral Abyss

[@cringe805]

@@arocomisgamusclademork1603 what? What do you mean?

[@arocomisgamusclademork1603]

@@cringe805 spent money in Genshin used in limited event challange domain like Saudrian Seach

[@cringe805]

@@arocomisgamusclademork1603 i don't understand what you're trying to tell

[@luckysgi-5karrow378]

FORCED NECESSITY YES. I knew they would try that, a good thing for this game, ever since that new Adventurer's Journal had the rewards for ascending different element characters lol. BUT THIS ALSO MEANS GIVE US MORE RESIN AND BETTER+MORE RESIN-LOCKED REWARDS PER RUN GDI. Without that, its just dangling more carrots from a string in front of us, and some yet even more further away.

[@vladys001]

At the end of the day you are limited to 4 units a team. The only option to increase necessity to pull for more characters is to increase number of teams that you would need at the same time

[@erinasama4976]

More buff for Xiangling to snapshot lmao

[@agentbluegaming7709]

Not sure how much this would actually be a good thing, but there is a non gacha game that has had similar problems with power creep and relevance but have taken a much different approach. The game is called Warframe, and they have chosen to go down the route of occasionally reworking characters kits to make sure they are updated to keep up with the current trend, this does have the problem of characters sometimes being skipped over in favor of others even when other warframes need a rework desperately, but even so i think between update characters with bad/mostly unusable kits (cough dehya cough) and releasing characters that work alongside said characters to make them work better or actually be good would potentially open the door to keep older characters from falling off as much. But idk.

[@aggil661]

Mika was such a half ass attempt at making Eula/Physical teams relevent. An Electro shielder/Healer/Sustain of any kind that helps Eulas biggest weaknesses would be great. A support that buffs Physical Crit Rate instead of DMG would make her dmg alot less of "I either hit you for 400,000 or 80,000". Hell some level of grouping that said support could have like a rope/lasso to keep smaller mobs closer would help her too. That type of support could give a ridiculous buff like 40% Phys crit rate and it wouldnt be broken. Considering how bad physical teams as a playstyle are.

[@vipoerx4532]

"considering how bad physical teams as a playstyle are." i would like to point out to those that don't know. Unless things have changed, Ruin enemies in specific. i.e. Ruin Guardians, Graders and what else. All have i believe 90% damage resist to physical. they're also one of i think, the more common "tough" enemies you'll come across. Which isn't the end of the world but, doing 90% less damage when your damage is pure damage rather than reaction bonuses is rough.

[@ergi8783]

Having bosses that force you to play characters you don't enjoy is bad game design, I think the better route is to release new characters who buff old characters, even if they are very specific, how about a character who's Elemental burst make all phisical damage be multiplied by 5x, we need those kind of characters, beacuse if a character is niece and you don't like it you don't have to wish for it, but a boss who forces you to summon an ice construct so that you are forced to use Rosalia, what happenes if you don't have her? Or she's low invested, or you straight up don't like her gameplay?

[@Hoopryfien]

12:00 only problem with this idea is that we'd have to trust the devs to not make that attack destroy Albedo's flower (since they love making that thing disappear if the conditions aren't perfect for it)

[@duckluiz]

The funny thing is that we have a boss that have earthuquakes and being airborne is optimal. The onlyv thing is that this boss buff your jump height and venti or albedo are obsolete for this boss fight 🤡

[@reece5634]

With the older characters, just update them, like buffs or a slight revamp to keep them usable and relevant. Easy fix tbh

[@pitagor2]

Looking at the thumbnail and it's only Monstadt characters and no Liyue characters hmmm. Hmmmmm

[@iiKhaled0]

liyue charcters has always been good

[@kidpuri8589]

Hmmm.... Hmmmmmmm.......

[@akqua_meow]

yeah that falls apart when you think about how liyue also has a bunch of super mid/niche characters lol.

[@scaler7812]

​@@akqua_meowLike who?

[@akqua_meow]

@@scaler7812 xinyan, qiqi, ganyu and shenhe (altho this is arguably due to cryo being useless atm), keqing, chongyun, ningguang, yanfei, yunjin, and gaming. yes I'm aware not all of them are useless or bad but none of them are particularly broken or that good, and I'm not trying to crap on these characters I actually do like most of them it just is what it is.

[@RareAngelz]

I honestly see Genshin more as a story and exploration game. Since they're just starting character poses and trails in the theater, I think they are addressing the older characters in a way that is good for most players. Even Qiqi is getting some love. :)

[@TheEulaFan]

One character for Eula - electro vision physical sub dps. It could apply some electro for sup. conduct + deal phys. damage itself. And I hope it won't have any dogsh*t mechanics that will want you to gouge your eyes from playing with it like with Mika.

[@StProgress340]

What Physical Character need is Deff shredd Character. Cuz they dont have their own VV. So make electro deff shredd its a good plan

[@Cajun_Seasoning]

what mechanics make mika feel wack to play?

[@omegadefender85]

​@@Cajun_Seasoning I say this as a Eula simp but he does make her teams slightly harder to build around if you want to use him. I haven't experienced the trouble of it much but his skill lasting 15 seconds instead of longer definitely hinders rotations, since you'll have to use him second to last in the rotation, and there aren't many abilities that last long enough periods of time to let that happen (Shogun's skill and Furina's burst are some examples of lasting longer than Mika's skill). You want as much time as possible for Eula to have the boosted state, and she needs to stay on the field during the entire duration, otherwise the effect fizzles into nothing. Worst parts about it is that Atk speed, while useful on Eula, doesn't allow her to attack that much faster. She only gains 1-2 additional stacks on her burst pre-c6, and the fact that the physical increase ability requires multiple enemies to be hit instead of a slow ramp up ability similar to Yelan's. If they made it so that his A4 could be triggered multiple times (and completely changed his C2 into something better than what it is, why it wasn't in the base kit is beyond me) he would be a much better unit. Though, this is just my opinion so don't take only my word for it. I'm still gonna use my chocobo boy Mika for Eula since Furina made him a much better and more fun unit to use. Ocean-hued Clam Mika go brrrr

[@Cajun_Seasoning]

@@omegadefender85 thanks for the breakdown

[@omegadefender85]

@@Cajun_Seasoning np dude, you have a good day :)

[@kuurumitokisaki]

I feel like Albedo will never recieve a buff in the meta. He has a lot of potential in the lore too but he was long forgotten. I'll still play around with him in the overworld. 💔

[@danish2.012]

Hutao, despite the presence of arlecchino isn't powercrept entirely. Xianyun offers a unique gameplay of plunging mechanic in which hutao can play it comfortably despite being C0. Furina helps a lot in hutao teams in draining her hp. Hutao's plunge with xianyun has been the new meta and best way to play hutao and C0 hutao can enjoy playing her comfortably without tackling the stamina issue. The only issue here is that hutao best team is very premium, requiring xianyun and furina to maximize the effectiveness of hutao's gameplay.

[@catx8334]

I wish Genshin would be more open to balancing characters. GBF does it really often with their older units and a lot of those who've been rebalanced come back into the meta (and also encourages players to buy the older characters). I'm not asking for major kit changes just a few tweaks to help them meet the current power level.

[@jaseri_kitsune8518]

What they could do is make the Standard Banner more beneficial by putting older characters in and doing a Selector like in HSR, or make a Wishlist like in AFK Journey and show which 4 or 5 Stars you're looking for instead of the Chronicled Banner. Another thing they could do is in the Imaginarium Theater, they reward you your chosen older 5 Star when you reach a goal.

[@madh-3388]

god damn bruh u have a big brain, always making great points !

[@linklovezelda2000]

Still waiting for my Cocogoat buff

[@Andreas_Straub]

I am perfectly happy with how she is today. This will also seriously improve when cryo will gain importance again ... Snezhnaya?

[@alice0795]

In PGR ( the other kurogame title) there is the leap system which adds new passives that you need to farm for old characters (although only some characters have it)

[@inferius3389]

So much excitement in your voice. I can barely stay awake

[@evotheevolutions]

bro ayato released as a more consistent but weaker version of childe and now thanks to fontaine, ayato mains are on so much copium. I know because I am one. next comment going to be on speculation and leaks so if you dont wanna see it dont press read more the first natlan character is rumored to be the hydro shark girl from early in the trailer, and she is rumored to be a main dps "on the same power level as nuevilete." I do believe that the quote is definitely an exaggeration but even if it's not, one thing that will remain the same is that I will be on so much copium, my muscle and flesh will fall off my bones.

[@mattiamusso8664]

Klee c2 ttod support is till insanely overpowered and most community will never ever be able to build her, make me sad.

[@doriansz3130]

The thing is Klee is outdated I got her and I like to play with her ,but she feels really slugish and outdated. Genshin needs to update those old characters, something like a powerup quest or something. If only her Ultimate worked offield she would still be used😑 Most people will not pull C2 for an old Charcters to be good ,when there are Characters like Arlecchino and Lyney who work perfect at C0 and are even stronger. One way of updating this old characters would be to increase their drop rate something like pity at 45 than people would summon for them and they could compete with new characters.

[@byron197]

​@@doriansz3130 tbh even if her Q were to work off field similar to xingqiu and yelan, I doubt she stands a chance against xiangling 😂

[@justapasserbyrandomperson9325]

@bryon197 If her burst worked off field, Xiangling would be crying in a corner Do you know how quick and powerfully Klee hits? Xiangling has no ICD but Klee hits so fast that ICD doesn't matter lol I pulled Klee as a noob in 1.0 and I've never really used her for endgame, but she applies so much pyro that hydro units can vape consistently, and I think no other character can do that solo

[@byron197]

@@justapasserbyrandomperson9325 Yeah, but Klee can not snapshot unlike xiangling, so she doesn’t dish out as much damage as her. Xianglings pyro application is enough to sustain vaporize for all hydro characters with the exception of childe and ayato (when his Q is active). We don’t have a hydro hu tao, or a character that can abuse her more frequent pyro application for consistent vaporizes. Xiangling is still more than enough for now.

[@justapasserbyrandomperson9325]

@@byron197 No, there's a difference Xiangling herself vapes off of hydro Klee enables hydro units to vape Xiangling can't apply enough pyro to let any hydro applicator except Ayato forward vape I believe (and not even him if he has attack speed buffs) If you run Xingqiu with Klee, you'll notice Xingqiu's swords vaporizing sometimes, that's how much pyro Klee applies 💀 Ofc Klee can't keep up with someone like Neuvillette but only Klee can solo enable you to forward vape 100% of the time with other hydro characters. Xiangling's ult and Bennett C6 together apply as much pyro as Klee alone If they let Klee be more of a support by letting her burst work off field, Klee would overthrow Xiangling, no doubt. Klee was screwed over by Hoyo but she definitely had potential to be the best pyro support, especially considering half her kit revolves around her buffing her team Edit: What I mean is that Klee's own damage wouldn't matter much, since she's just there to enable you to vape. As a result, her not snapshotting is a non-issue.

[@WolfwoodsMind]

I might be experiencing a bit of burnout from Genshin lately, but I do not feel excited for any characters they're trying to put in the game. Old characters are facing a lot of issues due to Hoyo putting in enemies that are forcing you to follow their idea of meta to some degree. Venti's burst? Not effective on many of the new enemies. Freeze mechanic? Good luck with that. Physical? Mostly forgotten. I'm not even talking about end game content, because I really don''t have the time to dig into that and I barely care. The new mode would be rather time consuming for me so I can't be arsed despite having many leveled up units. I used to be a Freeze Ganyu team, but she fell off so much that she's collecting dust nowadays. I'm grateful for Cloud Retainer that gave master Diluc a new chance and I love it, but once again you're required to invest in specific 5 stars to make old ones competitive again against new characters. Now they announced Emily (was it?), the parfume maker nonsense which gives the burning reaction a reason to exists, but honestly? She feels exactly like Chiori or Eula to me, came out of nowhere with no prior lore drops in the story quests/side quests/events and overall feels like a filler character which I couldn't care less. Plus we know how the drill is: new character drops! Yooo she's so powerful! You won't believe how strong she is with this team and how big numbers she deals! NEW META! Bollocks. I'll be fair, I'm saving up for the Archons because I would like to have all of them by the end of the story, but this constant flow of characters which changes Meta according to what Hoyo feels like doing is tiring me out. Now we have the Bond of Life mechanic, tomorrow who knows. I really want to see how the story ends, but I feel like playing less and less because of less than interesting events and stale gameplay, combined with a personal lack of time to invest into the game. Also, unpopular opinion, but could we have less Itto in our events? Every year we're getting at least two events involving that thick skulled Oni. It was fun at first, but that's quite enough I'd say. I like to play with him, but I'd rather not have to deal with his shenanigans during events anymore. Also, I guess it's due to all the characters present in the game right now, but I feel that recent events tends to drop in characters from all over the place to the point where I feel that most of them don't even belong in it, just to show them around. A concrete example of this would be the last lantern rite with Cloud Retainer's new region where they filled the event with Fontaine characters just because Fontaine was released recently. So all of a sudden you're walking through Liyue regions and here, have a Furina. Have you met Navia yet? What about Clorinde? Also Neuvilette is here! Let's not forget Charlotte! Yes, I got it, they exists, now begone from my Liyue event! We have Gaming and Retainer to entertain us, no need for you here. Apologies for the rant, I shared my feelings to which many of you won't agree with and I sincerely hope that my feelings about the game will change with the upcoming updates reigniting the fires of curiosity that I had when I first started playing. I wish you all a good day and good game :)

[@netti8571]

+1. I totally agree

[@chainsow47]

I really liked your comment and in many ways I share your opinion. Thank you for writing this, it makes me happy to know that there are people who share my opinion.

[@MuhaamadAreeb]

11:56 but we already have a boss like that and its been in the abyss before. It basically only does ground aoe attacks except one that can all be dodged by simply going in the air, didn't see albedo's market share rise Thing is, if they wanted to give albedo a chance, they would have greated a geo buffer that would help him and his mono geo team rise to relevance Instead they created a unit that does the exact same thing as him but only very slightly better. Meaning she's also bad. Like WHAT? If you wanted to have a bad geo off field unit, you had one, why did you make another?

[@MrFern5]

I played preconne when it was around and I really liked their way of doing it ie: a completely ftp equipment you could get in the mid to late game that would buff the unit. While its not perfect I think it’s a good way to directly buff a character

[@wildfiregx]

I know it will never happen, but I think it would be cool to Genshin to do what FGO and gives buffs to old characters through different quests. It gives the older characters a little bit of time to shine and also buffs them. It won’t always buff them to meta but it usually will make them at least more viable.

[@neoslayerpw8230]

12:00 these ideas are actually so good

[@Zerobasssoul]

Here's *a* solution: Have a special domain that gives a single artifact piece that uniquely goes to a character. The piece offers a 1-piece set bonus that alters the character's ability or ult (reworks them or gives additive properties). The domain lets you pick what character artifact you are going for as well as what kind of piece it is flower, feather, etc. Downside its 1 time weekly and the stats for the piece are still random (still has to have that Mihoyo bs attached to it).

[@guilhermemadureira9083]

Blue Archive mentioned let's GUOOOOOOHHH😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭💢💢💢💢💢

[@juggernaut6666]

lets be honest zhongli is also garbage hes just been made artificially decent by never releasing another 5 star shielder. and ruining the 4 star shielders like making thoma ascend on attack instead of HP or ER or EM literally the worst possible stat he could ascend into. they also made laylas shield have no duration. if they released a 5 star shielder of any element they would probably replace zhongli on 80% of his use cases.

[@kajex7589]

It did happen, Dehya was forgotten. Dumped into standard so they never even had to address the issue of a rerun. Killed my drive to play in a big way.

[@vonericmiranda8555]

No matter what, I'll always be a Klee and Keqing main.

[@Hoyodeaf_bring_PJC_back]

no rerun for keqing :(

[@VrtielA6300]

Please prove your Keqing

[@vonericmiranda8555]

@@Hoyodeaf_bring_PJC_back been playing simce venti's 1st banner but I recently got c3 keqing.

[@Ai-jr4ou]

Not sure how well this translates to Genshin since I only started playing a few weeks ago, but look at Fire Emblem Heroes for reference. While the character don’t get much exposure in the game itself that is compensated by the fact most characters are from a full length game of their own. So players still develop favorites, even if the character is objectively awful. This was to establish the commonality between Genshin and FEH player favoritism. FEH militates this issue to some degree via alts. The same character with an updated tool kit. It won’t work for Genshin now to my understanding because the next few banner cycles should be for the new region. But at some point they can either squeeze in a third banner or replace a new character with say, Jean but now she is the actual grandmaster instead of the acting one. Keep her the same element for lore reasons but give her a new and improved kit. Maybe even make it so she intentionally synergies with the “base” Jean so Jean fans can use their favorite twice over in the same team. My thoughts at least, the main issue is that the banner cycle is to slow to accommodate new versions of old characters. And that only 5 characters or so are in the permanent 5* pool. Though that can be fixed by having the main unit rate stay the same but the off banner 5* characters being characters related to the main unit on rerun banners. I can only speak for Mondstat since I only just started but say Jean was rerun, the off focus units would be Klee, Diluc, and venti. Or say Chiori had a rerun the off focus could be Navia and Clorinde (the electro lady with a gun don’t know how to spell her name and can’t look it up at the time of typing this comment).

[@invarkul7831]

Do what PGR did (apparently, never played it): make "Old unit 2.0". Basically a new system that allows you to get upgraded version of that unit that would replace the older version. Basically buffs but you have to pull for them

[@VidaCrowe]

One idea that comes to mind is Arknights' Module system. Modules are devices that modify the talents of Arknights characters, sometimes adjusting the talent's parameters, sometimes adding additional effects to the talent. Once a character's Module is unlocked, it can be activated and deactivated freely. Modules are usually given to characters who need the help. Some characters can even receive a 2nd module, allowing players to choose which module they prefer to equip. For Genshin, they could call this system "Re-Vision." For example, they release a new story event for Eula where she undergoes some form of character development, and her Vision ends up resonating with this development. The Re-Vision could either: a) Improver her current Physical prowess, or... b) Convert her talents so that they act more Cryo than Physical, allowing Eula to take more advantage of elemental reactions. Of course, the Re-Vision can be deactivated so that you can experience Eula's original kit. I know Hoyoverse did something similar before with Honkai Impact 3rd's Augment Core system. But then again, they added it for only 6 A-Rank battlesuits and 1 S-Rank battlesuit. No further was added after that. (And the cores usually take more than a month to farm.)

[@kwayke9]

Powercreep is inevitable, after all. And it's mostly the Mondstadt 5*s who are really weak, Liyue fares much better in that regard (except Ganyu, but this is more because cryo is quite bad as a whole currently)

[@Marz333]

Yeah I remember when Ganyu was regarded as the most broken dps.. so much has changed lol

[@vassilioskourtidis7398]

We need in Genshin a system like the Strengthening Qeuest in F/GO. Something that augments skills, statts or burst. That would help older units to stay relevant somewhat in the furure

[@AndreiLabesores]

POWER CREEP IS REAL!!!

[@VrtielA6300]

👎

[@coldbeef5356]

I think new artifact sets or dedicated buffers could fix a lot of these issues. the unfinished reverie set and chevreuse breathed life into two defunct reactions and similar things could revive the use of old units

[@Meir1233]

Tbh I rlly want some of the old character just for fun like eula and klee but the pulls are still so scarce in this game that i need to prioratize the character like archons and sovereign or evem fatui and additionally i think they can introduce something like augment core or leap skills (from pgr) something along that they have done it to hi3 wich augment cores wich provides A rank or older character a chance to be used again but as far as im aware they dont do it anymore tho

[@wriothesleyenjoyer]

you really dont, i pulled for Itto back whe he didnt really have a team and still used him and cleared most content, meta is an illusion unless youre playing spiral abyss which even then, i managed to clear this phase's abyss with a random team of XInqiu, Mona, Wrio and i think Diona

[@r.a.panimefan2109]

Eula my beautiful spindrift knight with the nicest ass in the game. I don't care if she's not (meta) Phys has been left behind a bit But I hold hope. Besides I'm switching from pale flame to marcheause hunter. Furina I'm pulling for. Sigh You get near 100 crit rate of that set. Theoretical 300 or up crit rate Her issue here song of broken pines didn't give crit rate.

[@Zefraxii]

Man, that Brave Frontier pop up got me. I miss that game so much.

[@XSkimmilkmanX]

It’s bound to happen in any Gacha game

[@highwaytoheaven99]

If Hoyo is so adamant on not reworking elements/reactions, then just release a new character that MAKES the element/reaction good. They did it with overload and Chevreuse, they could do so with physical damage. If they released someone with C6 Faruzan levels of buffs for physical damage, Eula would be meta again. But characters like Mona who were just powercrept? Its over for them. Just accept it and move on...

[@infrnlmssh9719]

I think the reason these characters are seen as "weak" is because there are many mechanics that the players refuse to delve in that actually make these characters relatively good. Stamina, hybrid damage, targeting, normal attacks, quickswap rotations, targeting, movement speed, crystallize, resonances, weak spots, dragonstrikes, lower cooldowns. These are all things that make them not only functional but fun to play. One consistent thing about "meta teams" is that they all fall into one category: Variable certainty. And most meta players do not understand variability nor plan/adapt/feel comfortable with it. That's the reason why "meta" players are the most vocal about hating IT. Because they had to "brute force it" with "nonsensical teams". But thats the same kind of people that would restart Abyss when Kenki decides to dash or the miss the Kazuha double swirl. Which, for me, just feels like cheesing. Also, respectfully, saying that characters like Furina do not make teams like Physical better is just plain objectively wrong. If Furina brings any meta team from 100% to 150% she brings Physical from 80% to 130% which closes the relative gap between them. Ergo, making them relatively better than they were before to everything else.

[@r.a.panimefan2109]

Eula marchese hunter furina... 90 to 100 percent crit rate.... Miss now.

[@jorgetiagosilva]

Agree with most of what you said, but furina increasing the teams damage by 50% means 1.5*80% which is only 120%. So she provides an equal increase regardless of power level

[@r.a.panimefan2109]

Eula marchese hunter... there goes the crit problem

[@infrnlmssh9719]

@@jorgetiagosilva Actually, she doesn't. She increases DMG Bonus equally but not *_overall_* damage equally. There are some teams that are oversaturated with DMG Bonus. Neuvilette gets between 90%-100% Just from his set and passive alone. Even more if using his signature. However, teams like Physical and self-vape/self-melt _also_ get this damage increase to their non-Physical damage (if you do the math is a relevant portion of the damage). Or characters like Childe or Lisa that have damage spread equally on different parts of their kit benefit more from Furina's buff having no restrictions unlike weapons and artifact sets' restriction to NAs, CAs, Skills and Bursts.

[@annaradford6752]

I just love seeing characters I have in these videos 😅 even though it mostly 4 stars I have and so proud of them as I keep learning and finding new bits.

[@weregretohio7728]

People try arguing with me that a character like Klee isn't outdated... well, here's an entire video on it. A lot of characters have been left behind. Since they aren't going to alter the mechanics at all, they're probably not coming back. You can't really add new things to buff them without also buffing better units.

[@purp1e200]

Vars is not a theory crafter so don't take his videos so seriously. Diluc did get a buff with the release of Xiunyun thanks to being the character with the highest plunge multiplier. So, he specifically got a huge buff from her. Klee also got some big buffs with the release of Furina. Klee needed a slow hydro applicator for her monopyro team and Furina was THE perfect character for that. Eula CAN get a individual buff very easily if they somehow would buff physical but unfortunately Hoyo refuse to give any attention to it. Also, I don't think Klee is outdated. She is actually one of the most underrated characters in the game imo. Poeple forget that dmg numbers don't paint the whole picture. Klee has insane pyro application meaning she can destroy shields super fast. She also has very high pyro particle generation and her charged atks also has high poise dmg. These are the things that matters a lot in gameplay but not talked much outside of the Theorycrafting communities.

[@lucasayabe]

See Jamie video for the counter argument for that. Klee + Furina is insane, and actually competitive for speedrun.

[@darkdude1996ify]

There's so many ways they could buff older characters, and to be fair, they could just continue on as they have, releasing enemies/characters/weapons/artifacts etc that benefit specific characters indirectly. There's also the whole discussion about lvl100, and if that doesn't work they could resort to direct buffs to characters (perhaps even in a semi-indirect way). They could introduce character-specific gear of some kind that could give buffs only when that specific character equips it, whether it be an artifact, a weapon, or something else entirely.

[@raderelcaroman1403]

Thats just powercreep

[@VrtielA6300]

👎

[@raderelcaroman1403]

@@VrtielA6300 👏

[@SingingGinge]

I'm very grateful we can change playback speeds on these videos. I love your opinions on these games, but you talk so fast. I changed the speed to 0.75x speed and it's perfect!

[@strobo308]

I keep building and making my Wanderer better, he's stronger than my fully built Neuvillette but he's hyper invested. Reject the meta, go with your scrunklys

[@strobo308]

I'm wishing for another Furina kind of unit that buffs general damage on Natlan, so I can keep making him a powerhouse~

[@uuuuuuuuiiiiiii]

i really find your knowledge of the game and narration style super enjoyable which keeps me coming back whenever i see a new post, but it sometimes feels like you have so many more complaints about the game than points of interest

[@VarsII]

Blame KZbin for that 😞 people only watch critical or negative videos so I mostly try to go a “but there is hope!” Angle

[@uuuuuuuuiiiiiii]

@@VarsII i don’t!

[@zahkrosis666]

Except, they're not forgotten. Eula is still considered top tier Physical unit. Klee's been the star of every Summer adventure event. Mona was in Fontaine's main quest. Albedo and his background got new insight with the Bedtime Story quest. Besides that, these are different regions. You won't exactly see Razor or Xingqiu in Natlan or Sumeru desert, like how you likely won't see Fontaine's court hanging out with the KoF or some Natlan war hero visiting Liyue. Plus with SO many characters, and previous regions still adding more like Sethos, they're weaving the threads to fit in the new, while Fontaine is still currently the focus, AND getting the NEW, next region's characters ready. Why, for example, should they focus now on showing more of Chongyun & Xingqiu when Natlan is coming out, and Fontaine is still the current, WHILE readying a Sumeru and new Fontaine character? This is what events are for, since logically and in-universe, especially as shown with the Kamisatos in the Roses & Musket event, many characters just don't fit in, or can go to, other regions. THINK god damnit!!!!!

[@wriothesleyenjoyer]

i agree but Eula doesnt really hae any competition, Razor is a four star which pretty much instantly makes him weaker, Xinyan is actually a pyro dps once people read her kit, Rosaria and Mika are supports and thats pretty much everyone EDIT: I forgot about Freminet since i dont use him but he has the same issue as razor and most people use him for melt since he is technically a viable melt dps

[@mptyalln]

"I didn't watch the video"

[@zahkrosis666]

@@mptyalln Don't need to. I've seen others and Vars has so many stupid takes with not 3 seconds of thoughts put into them, I gave up watching any others.

[@DiamondCityLights]

true but when was the last time we got a new 5 STAR mondstadt unit?

[@zahkrosis666]

@@DiamondCityLights Why would we need one? Fontaine is present, Natlan is about to drop. Maybe when that stretch between Stone Gate and Stormterror's lair is finally unlocked but otherwise, there's no need really.

[@kenmei1604]

11:34 Honestly, her situation not even that bad. While some parties can clear without Shizuko, she still see a lot of usage on S&K. Sure, there's also another way to avoid that particular attack namely units with reposition (which, funily enough is speciality of Summer Shizuko), but unless you have good reflexes and your party is coped close enough for reposition to tag everybody, cover from OG Shizuko is still pretty much best way to survive that move

[@rushalias8511]

I mean its still mot that bad....hsr power crept way faster despite only being out for a quarter the time. Maybe that has something to di with releasing more than half the amount of charafters genshin had in thst time.

[@kmh4076]

The dps I’m surprised the most can still stand to this day is Hu Tao and Childe. Not the top 3 now but they still clear endgame without any worry

[@usmanya5110]

i guess in the case of childe and Hu Tao it's due to how they are probably the best in most ST and AoE situations. As for Tao i think it's due to double hydro teams with xy or jean making it a pretty strong team in ST and AoE. she may not be top 3 but she's still top 5 as she probably has the highest ST team in thr game.

[@Opti-Miser]

I still use albedo all the time. Since he's one of my faves and he can just chill on most teams with some actually using his whole kit, but I definitely feel the difference between my boy and all these fontaine powerhouses LOL, here's hoping lv 100 comes some day and can be the soft rebalance I've been dreaming of! Would love to see a vid ideating potential ascension 6 passives IMAGINE

[@xGrinkelx]

I think they could do well if they went back an added new features to older characters / gave them unique buffs or ways to further boost new characters, and if they worked in more reactions + usefulness for geo, physical, and cryo as they are underutilized and have fallen way behind in the dps meta compared to newer characters and reactions. Quality of life changes would further make older characters comfier to play in the current meta if field times / rotation times were more generous and some of the clunkiness was smoothed out. Coupled with a rerun, characters that are mini-reworked/buffed would still make similar money to a new unit if they become more enjoyable with the new characters and sets

[@BellPepper-fh4to]

Mona and Arle vape team honestly slaps, like tbh they are pretty meta together and fun together 🤞😌🧋