The Problem with "Lore" in Games

[@lautaroescarlon7501]

The best lore trope is finding funny or insane journal pieces of a guy that died and then you find that guys corpse

[@finixmoon127]

Bioshock 1 introduced this trope and executed it really well, and then every game after that started copying it

[@demiliomason1565]

​@@finixmoon127huge disagree there. I'm pretty sure resident evil began this trope. Or at least did it in a very effective way given the atmosphere.

[@n1njaspirit13]

mm i’m gonna have to say that South Park: the Stick of Truth actually did it the best

[@tamerofroaches]

1:35 "what is this RPG ass..." bro, it's an RPG. There's going to be RPG mechanics.

[@lamegamertime]

I agree tho; rpg mechanics aren't very natural design. (edit: especially in this type of game)

[@pimpalas]

didnt he say whats the point of of these rpg (mechanics), implying that if you have to fight bosses in specific ways its not really an rpg

[@vazazell5967]

​@@pimpalas yeah, that's what he said

[@seanc.2439]

@@pimpalas yeah, OP just got jumpy at criticism of Elden ring.

[@MoadTomi]

@@pimpalas except that you are able to fight using more ways than just a specific one

[@gabrielvero2352]

My man... The "lore" of Elden Ring and souls games... IT'S IN THE MECHANISCS ITSELF. Every spell, every incantation... It all follows a material path from where it came. That's the beauty of it. Instead of making it "more pleasurable" to play the game... It is the foundations upon which they created this world and it's mechanics in the first place... It's not the same as some Bethesda rpg, were the lore has no bearing in how the game is actually strictured as a mechanic

[@rompevuevitos222]

That is not lore, specially when they have no connection between each other. As he said, there is no cohesion. It is all random cool effects.

[@gabrielvero2352]

@@rompevuevitos222 Saying there's no cohesion in this game is just plain absurd.

[@rompevuevitos222]

@gabrielvero2352 no cohesion in terms of lore. The only lore the game really has is the gameplay. And while gameplay can depict lore, Elden Ring's gameplay doesn't.

[@gabrielvero2352]

@@rompevuevitos222 "The only lore the game really has is the gameplay" that's just false. Or are you really gonna say that the descent to St. Trina, with the ghosts lamenting that Miquella has let go of her love to become a god falls short of lore of what game exactly? Do you actually think that having this being done by exposition would be better than how it is? What about the dying world part of it all, if they did that? See what I mean, it works because it is presented in this way, in which the world does not revolve around you, and you have to be curious about it to understand certain things. The concept of a mystery is lost to this era of spoon fed shit entertainment. It's one of the best written games in a medium that has a pretty shitty standard (hence why gamers are mostly stupid, they think Last of Us is peak writing)

[@DarkWallay]

You didn't connect anything. You said "it is." ​@@gabrielvero2352

[@train123z]

you're gonna make a lot of fromsoft glazers very upset

[@SleepyCyborg66]

I for one salut him for it People need to know it’s not a crime to Not relentlessly glaze fromsoft games, despite what most of the internet would have you believe

[@m1l22]

They have a right to glaze souls games are amazing

[@train123z]

@@m1l22 💤💤😴😴

[@m1l22]

@@train123z ????

[@respect_my_autoritah]

erm, actually, the "connection terminated" cutscene is from FFPS, not Sister Location 🤓

[@lamegamertime]

Erm achually he didn't say it was from sister location, he said "sister location cutscene AND infamous connection terminated cutscene" 🤓🤓🤓

[@socute8947]

Erm, actually... ah...🤓 Well, I don't have any ideas 😞

[@CrmisonWalker]

I love and respect your unfiltered style, regardless of whether I agree with it or not, it's refreshing and to the core with no meaningless chatter. Wish to see more of your content. I wish someone could tell me the game, at 0:47, seems fun. Much obliged in advance.

[@finixmoon127]

I think it's Diablo II, not 100% sure tho so don't take my word for it

[@yektaagra741]

I played both diablo 2 and its remake and Mephisto's scenes didnt seem to line up with the background. It turns out to be Diablo 4. Id recommend Diablo 2 WAY over 4 though, the latter is one of those greedy mobile games but the difference is you can play it on PC

[@finixmoon127]

@@yektaagra741 Thanks for the correction

[@MikeSpike117]

You went from fair hitting criticism in beloved shows to just hating

[@TheGumbyGuy]

I love hating

[@CSorgini]

@@TheGumbyGuyI love men

[@TheGumbyGuy]

@@CSorgini same

[@zenhao9282]

​@@TheGumbyGuykzbin.info/www/bejne/qWSzh2yeltlrZ5Ysi=r7IhPd1tP2bLiER1

[@yektaagra741]

I love enjoying

[@smansam]

The word of the day: taste

[@montypython5521]

Dad of war is an ok movie.

[@doodlegame8704]

6:12 Bruh. Just let people have fun with their speculating. Also, while I haven't played it myself, from what I have seen, its pretty obvious that its satire on the colonialism and government propaganda. So idk what you are complaining about.

[@rompevuevitos222]

Do not watch criticism if you cannot take it.

[@doodlegame8704]

@ Uh, I’m just criticizing criticism lol

[@tonneek508]

Bro I think it would be cool if you make a video about acting

[@doodlegame8704]

5:08 Hollow Knight does this, but its actually intentional and you get to fight the final boss in its prime in the final DLC (which is now just part of the game).

[@JDkn]

Zanzibart… forgive me!

[@Slender-se3mr]

I understand where you're coming from, but you're thinking of games as a story instead of an experience. Uncovering the world of Ds1 or Bloodborne is a big part of the experience that directly plays into the message those games are trying to tell, the story of the game is Your story as you traverse it and learn about all these npc side stories that all play into the main theme of the game, in the case of Ds1 "Always have a goal, dont you dare go hollow". Its a meta narrative on the player. And thats a creative way to tell a story in the medium of videogames, that will solo all these hollywood movie wannabe's any day of the week

[@train123z]

@@Slender-se3mr ds1 and Bloodborne are also outdated as shit and have you overcoming things like runbacks and pure jank (mostly ds1 in terms of the latter) more than the actual difficulties of the game lol. Compare those two to Sekiro which actually just told you the goddamn story even if it had worse lore than the other games, and it became GOTY

[@Slender-se3mr]

​ @train123z I also like sekiro's more direct method, but thats because its a different game with a different meta-narrative than the others that surprise, is also intertwined with the gameplay itself. If you try to find narrative meaning in the gameplay of a say... recent god of war game, you'll find nothing because the story segments are completely separate

[@train123z]

@@Slender-se3mr Never cared much for the GOW franchise but the combat and battles in that game generally did seem to tie into the narrative of the game. Especially larger scale fights like the first Fatass Thor fight of the second game. But I really do think Sekiro is hardly a "deviation" from the general Fromsoft formula and more of an advancement in a new direction. Elden Ring, while being less direct than Sekiro and suffering for it (especially due to the open world nature of that game) was still more direct than the three Souls games and Bloodborne.

[@Slender-se3mr]

@@train123z thats not what im talking about, in sekiro in one of the endings you become a manifestation of shura, a demon deity of hatred and carnage in japanese culture. But this is in fact you the player, sekiro is a game where fighting and killing enemies is fun, if you lose sight of your goal you run the risk of becoming it, and Ishin notices that he can sense an omen of shura within you earlier in the game. Thats what I mean by the gameplay embodying the story

[@train123z]

@@Slender-se3mr that's literally just your own speculation lol. Sure, it's a cool little theory, but the actual requirements of the Shura ending are pressing one option over the other, which just lets you fight the Owl and get the other 3 endings if you want. Not to mention, that sort of thing is just a barebones RPG staple. It's just choosing what you want from your character..because you make your own character in RPGS, generally. I know that Sekiro isn't an RPG but still. The Dark Souls games lack in RPG elements like this that could actually make certain actions that the player makes matter for certain endings. As an example, in DS1 there are two endings you can get. One where you link the fire and one where you become the Dark Lord. Both of these tie into one of the two primordial serpents. The Linking of the Fire ending is the pathway where you follow Frampt and the Dark Lord is where you follow Kaathe. However...this literally doesn't matter. You can follow Frampt and still become the Dark Lord just by walking out of the area where you kill Gwyn. Most of your decisions storywise simply dont matter in these games. The issue with most of Fromsoft's games, or atleast the "stories" contained within are that most of the cool stuff comes from the community and not the actual game itself. Sure, speculating on uncertain events and whatnot are cool parts of every story, but if literally EVERYTHING is uncertain and is left up to the player to find...what story are they trying to tell? There's nothing there. It's just lore. Maybe that's intentional, sure. But many people simply dislike that and that's fine. It's objective that these games lack cohesive stories.

[@Finzombie]

Methinks that this guy just didn’t enjoy Elden Ring or Darktide and had to come up with some idea to hate lmao 90% of Elden Ring players I know give no shits about the lore, and the only reason you’re ragging on it here is because you didn’t enjoy the gameplay. Which is fine, taste is taste, but don’t try to declare that it’s bad storytelling.

[@danklegosi6084]

This is what I'm thinking too, the guy's just straight hating lol

[@rompevuevitos222]

People not caring does not mean it is magically good lmao. Cope.

[@lamegamertime]

Kind of related to this; I was watching The No-Frauds Club's interview with The Electric Underground and they started talking about something similar to this at around 70 minutes in and again 117 minutes in. Thought it was really interesting (considering I want to design games) Namely the idea of gameplay being a performance like music in relation to the story.

[@zephril922]

You fell on gang

[@iamrealiswear]

Are u ever gonna talk about a game with a good story

[@Sharky..]

6:22 holy shit darwin project mentioned

[@Slender-se3mr]

Well in the end I still value your videos as they carry truths that nobody wants to say or has realized, like the mesmer son of chesmer segment. I feel that. But then you turn back and say that the Gwyn fight is corny, i dont get it You're putting an end to an old depraved man who sacrificed everything because he couldnt let go, were you expecting some generic elden ring hype music and for him to have 7 combo extenders too?

[@rompevuevitos222]

90% of comments being mad that their game of choice have no good lore, even tough they do not even care about the lore. Peak games still have flaws people, grow up.

[@amogsus631]

Thank you so much for reminding me of Papa Franku

[@nioru7443]

god this channel has the worst takes ive seen in a hot minute lmfao anyway congrats to you for youtube putting this on my feed and getting me to click enjoy my view and hope the algorithm keeps boosting you or whatever

[@pibbyt7]

why did you leave a comment if you despise it so much

[@OptimistoET]

I was thinking about this a few days ago. I like having to dig a little for the story but having to pull out external resources is just a big no for me.

[@Ghorda9]

except you don't need to pull out external sources, you also don't need the complete picture either to figure out the most important details.

[@MrTzatziki115]

I olay elden ring because of the gameplay its so satisfying to kill a hard boss with a 100kg greatsword

[@philltheotherguy1868]

Just skill issues honestly

[@JDkn]

Git gud

[@swiftumbra2748]

Aye make a video on Arcane, I want to know your thoughts.

[@doodlegame8704]

Bro will probably hate it just like everything else lol. I think the issue is expectations. Not "good" or "bad" expectations, but just expecting certain things of a story ahead of time, which will just set you up for disappointment if the story surprises you in a way you didn't expect. Its an issue because it makes it harder to appreciate new ideas when they don't fit within your scope of "what should happen."

[@DarkWallay]

Good points. Unless you're an uncreative man-child and need to grasp onto something to fill the void of your mediocre, existential void. Liked the video, keep doing what you're doing.

[@zenhao9282]

Bro is having a mental breakdown

[@a.p.3192]

So, you praise halo 4 for the didact stuff, which it s just lore, and then you make this video. Figure it out.

[@CordyHimself]

I like the concept of this video but, in my opinion, fell short cause you just stop giving actual constructive criticism and start just saying this character in this one game bad and this other game bad. It's just a little too scattered. Also i wanna rant about fromsoft games lore too. Yea no i dont wanna have to read 40 fucking chronicles to understand why a boss pierces the sky with a trident and why i should care abouy that i just dont

[@Micheybomber]

I'll tell you what RSG

[@elijahpri]

I do love Elden Ring, but my God. I would love for the story to actually be present. All I know is that I'm a Tarnished pulling up to become Elden Lord. Sure, I know the lore now, but I shouldn't have to consult a third party to know why I'm doing what I'm doing

[@squirrel1331]

i agree

[@Th3BigBoy]

Good video. F lore.

[@heartlyra5581]

I largely agree with your points, only thing I'd have to say is that it's a bit odd to use warhammer as a point in this considering the lore they talk about is for a wargame where the only story you can get is lore and whatever you and the guy you're playing with wanna scenario craft that day. Though if people are using the lore of the setting to call the stories of darktide and space marine 2 good then they're just morons.

[@finixmoon127]

Idk about your Warhammer take but somehow I absolutely agree that FNAF lore is more compelling than Elden Ring lore lol

[@nazm16]

Fell off

[@Vleaso]

I’m sayin like bro got 5 views in 2 minutes 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@lamegamertime]

Fell on a spike and died lore 😱

[@nazm16]

⁠and bro talkin bout some "problem with lore" like wrap ts shit up and get a job gang 💔

[@Jeff_189]

​@@nazm16 ur not funny drone

[@Ronam0451]

​@@nazm16found the elden ring fanboy

[@hexcodeff6624]

You gonna start of with a dub? Really? Why not have some standards and go with the original, if you're going to criticize something.

[@iamrealiswear]

The video isn’t about the shitty voice acting, it’s about shitty stories. Tears of the Kingdom still puts me to sleep everytime a cutscene plays and that doesn’t have anything to do with the language characters speak in, it’s because the story is dogshit lol

[@iamrealiswear]

also do u think there’s no artistic merit to a dub? Do the actors sleep walk into the booth with the words being pulled out of their mouth like ancient incantations?? If a dub is ass, that’s ultimately a fault of the art

[@iamrealiswear]

Worst comment if all time u didn’t even look at the title

[@hexcodeff6624]

​@@iamrealiswear Dubs are irrelevant to the actual experience to be discussed. If the dub is ass, that has nothing to do with the actual art and vision of the artist. There's one version for you to look at, the rest is irrelevant. When they re-realesed Neon Genesis Evangelion on Netflix and the dub was bad, did you go "Hideaki Anno was a good artist... until now" 30 years after he finished it or do you just accept that "the" dub has nothing to do with the original and is just irrelevant

[@seanc.2439]

@@hexcodeff6624 he never said it was the fault of the original artist

[@eliteslime2437]

First