The Problem With Spider-Gwen

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Spider-Gwen has become a huge part of the Spider-Man mythos lately... too bad her current books aren't that good...
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Bonnie Davies, The Brain Teaser, Tyler-Dean Mcilwaine, Jonathan & Megan Pierson, Milton Appling, El Habti Productions, Ethan Dannen, Yoav Haimovitz, LookWhosFhtagn, LuHeDi, Casper Qvortrup, Andrew Shaffer, Talentless Hack, Vydal
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Tags: #SpiderMan #SpiderGwen #Marvel

[@ComicDrake]

“Hope you guys liked the video! I love playing Monopoly Go! Download Monopoly Go for free: www.inflcr.co/SHJ25 #MonopolyGoPartner"

[@Spoopin]

Why'd you censor your grippers😭😭😭

[@naplockblubba5369]

Sassy mfing quotation marks

[@kojiko6901]

If you don't have a dr. Pepper can as a player piece I'm not buying 😂

[@Claude-wd8hi]

Can you talk about other publishers than Marvel and DC?

[@ComicDrake]

@@Claude-wd8hi Sure I would love to. You guys just don't ever watch those videos when I make them. 🙄

[@CaptainCat101]

Spider-Gwen was ruined in Across the Spiderverse, she took Miles' collectable action figure out of the packaging, that's pure evil

[@rhinuu045]

wow i get why people hate her now

[@christiananddanyell]

Gwen was the true antagonist in that movie

[@Thedude38356]

It was Gwen's revenge for what Miles did to her hair previously. Once she took that action figure out she became the most infamous Spider-Man villain of all time.

[@loke6664]

I dunno, she is from another universe so Earth 616 nerd culture might not be something a punk rocker from Earth 65 knows about. It was a cultural Faux pas and something you really would expect happening a lot more when people jump from universe to universe all the time. It is very possible that people on Earth 65 really don't give a crap about collecting things and action figures might not even be a thing there at all. She saw a weird doll and examined it, we do actually see similar issues on earth, there was plenty during the age of exploration when someone accidentally riled up the locals. And you know, it isn't like American tourists don't get into cultural clashes to this day. From Miles point of view it was certainly upsetting but he do think she is hot so he got over it.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

@@Thedude38356Uh, don’t you mean Spider-WOMAN?

[@ItsTheFizz]

I honestly think the issue is that Marvel Comics never intended for Spider-Gwen to catch fire like she did, especially with how much she deviates from her 616 counterpart... So all attempts to follow up her original series have been written by those who only know 616 Gwen just default to plopping her in 616 or Multiverse nonsense...

[@marhawkman303]

yeah, the actual universe she's from is functionally gone.

[@Intr0vertical]

​@@marhawkman303wym? Doesn't she still go back and forth

[@marhawkman303]

@@Intr0vertical yes, but mostly no. We don't SEE her world as much as we see her in 616.

[@pious83]

Basically it’s what they did to Ultimate X-Men. Subsequent writers joined the book and started writing stories and interactions for the 616 counterparts instead. Completely undermining what set the two versions apart.

[@TheJadedJames]

@@pious83 Yeah, Ultimate X-Men basically died for me shortly after the Blockbuster Arc. What was cool about it was the new take on the universe but then writers got weird adapting too many old storylines into it, in a way that didn’t move the new universe forward (like did that comic ever explain the deal with Wolverine’s wife?)

[@M567dk]

Given the fact that Spider Gwen is in the 616 it makes me wonder what would happen if she encountered the rest of the Stacy family members that was established in the aftermath of her death ? Honestly, that is a potential storyline that could be worth reading, right ?

[@sandman45981]

They dead 💀

[@bheowolfe]

616 Pete's 'commissioner friend dies' cannon event is the death of Gwen's dad

[@mediabaron2416]

@@sandman45981 I mean, there is her cousin: Jill Stacy. She briefly dated Peter while he thought MJ was dead. Gwenpool mentioned her once. .... And yeah, that about covers her entire history.

[@marhawkman303]

@@sandman45981 Or you could retcon Kindred as Mephisto being a --- jerk, and that Sarah and Gabe weren't really Kindred. :p It'd make more sense than Kindred did TBh.

[@90abonnessansvideosdu42]

Wait her mom and brother too?@@sandman45981

[@henricusaquae867]

She’s an awesome character, but like you said, everything having to deal with multi verse stuff ruins basically every series. It’s too much and they need to stop

[@ExeErdna]

It feels like they sabotage the growth of some characters by trying to repeat plot hooks that need to end. Write her like a Spider-Man... patrolling, enjoying life, finding herself and running into rogues/villians that are unique to her. She need somebody to be slow and just establish her like other characters got that much respect.

[@dylansharp8471]

Say what?

[@rudkomontana2618]

Spider-Gwen was never an original. In the main universe she was a supporting character,Peters love interest, and she died. The whole idea about her being a superhero is based on a what if-like story. The multiverse stories were necessary to bring her into the main universe (because of her popularity) and it‘s cool and stuff but she will always be a Spiderman Clone (like Miles Morales, Ben Reily, Miguel O‘Hara, May Parker, Silk, etc)

[@Draliseth]

​@@rudkomontana2618 Heyheyhey! We don't use the C word... but you're absolutely right. I'd argue Miguel is the most "original" though.

[@punkypony5165]

Multiverse didn't ruin Invincible.

[@Kukaak]

I think Spider-Man 2099 has a similar problem, one of the cool and unique things about him is the world he lives in and the characters he interacts with both as Miguel and as Spider-Man, and then they put him in present day, and now he's back in 2099 but apparently a different one I think?

[@flamesofchaos13]

Yeah 2099 keeps getting retconned to new realities. Just what happens. Miles got transitioned from one to the other. Gwen hops back n fourth. Miguel's old timelines are dead and gone.

[@Jameskoek]

As someone who fell in love with the character and her books as they where first coming out I can say you hit the nail on the head here. I dropped off reading once it was clear we wouldn't be spending much time in Gwen's Universe. Marvel really does love sabotaging it's best books.

[@ExeErdna]

That's what pisses me off about comics the most the sabotage of amazing works. It feels like an abusive relationship, where you hope and have faith they'll do right. They don't

[@emperormegaman3856]

Sounds like Marvel assumed that since the character is popular they should put her in their main continuity. Strengthening the mothership, so to speak. But the thing is many of the things that make alternate universes versions of characters popular is that they can be used to tell their own stories with new spins on things, and without the burden of decades of continuity.

[@Mimic_Gaming]

Give her a story ABOUT her finding her identity again. Where she struggles with settling back in friendly neighborhood activities after being this multiversal figure for so long now

[@davidnakayama8671]

Thank you, brother!🙏 You know I love this channel!! For me, the multiversal Gwen antics have been fun, but I can see how--if you've been there for every single story since the beginning--maybe it's too much? The great news is that Marvel already course-corrected, and the upcoming new series 'Spider-Gwen: Smash' is focused on back-to-basics solo adventures in her home universe.👍 The band's a big part of it from what I can tell. Hopefully addresses a lot of the concerns you laid out here and gets you more of what you're looking for.

[@CaptainCat101]

Good to know

[@Tuaron]

Hey, just want to add my praise for your art - those covers were a highlight when I read these books. I'm definitely going to be watching for more of your work, might get me to check out some stuff I might not otherwise (I know you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but "cool cover" is what got me into Iron Man when I was a kid, so cool art helps). Thanks for the assurances on the future of the character, too - I've enjoyed these multiverse adventures, but I also just really liked Earth-65, and hope we can get more of a highlight for characters like MJ & co.

[@davidnakayama8671]

@@Tuaron thank you so much! That’s super nice of you.🙏🙏🙂❤️ I ‘ve personally been itching to draw Gwen on some solo covers, and this series is definitely scratching that itch for me. MJ is part of it. And some very exciting guest stars too!

[@kamichan127]

So happy to see you here !!! Epic art always

[@davidnakayama8671]

@@kamichan127Wow, thanks so much!🙏🙂

[@organous8870]

Multiverse burnout is, from my perspective, because it's being done just so that a company can show off all the properties they own. Like a rich kid who wants to be popular by virtue of all their stuff. There's no effort to it. But of course there's the obvious reason that they're just doing it all the time now. There's so much emphasis on just showing off lots of characters that they don't feel like characters anymore. They're just toys.

[@marhawkman303]

the issue I think is when the alt-Us lose their identity and get absorbed into the main-U.

[@ExeErdna]

This is honestly a really good take they're just making toys at this point a lot of newer characters just feel aloof. They're only brought out to be seen and then put away. Dark Web showed even in a poor way you can give somebody an arc. Like the whole build up to Null with the King in Black was cool for Eddie. Yet where Spider-Man shines is grounded more humanized stories. Gwen deserves one

[@killergrooves2438]

Back in the 90s during the Spider-Man cartoon’s run, I hated the final episode(s?) where Spider-Man gets trapped in the multiverse and teams up with a bunch of different versions of himself. But I loved the episodes where he teamed up with other heroes. It made the world feel bigger. But multiverses always seem to contain lamer versions of characters that are already cool. It kind of reminds me of how toy lines would always release multiple versions of the same figure but with some sort of gimmick. Like the color changing Ghostbusters or the vacation Ninja Turtles. I hated those as a kid. I just wanted the regular version and that’s what multiverse feels like to me. It’s just a way to convince me to buy neon colored G.I. Joes or battle damaged Wolverine.

[@marhawkman303]

@@killergrooves2438 the multi-verse thing was neat since it let you see various "road not taken" versions of Spider-Man. how would his life have been if... just slightly different? 'cause you can go back in the series and see where there is a divergence point for each of them.

[@ExeErdna]

@@killergrooves2438 That was a valid toy gimmick because holy shit in the 90s Batman had more suits than Tony Stark

[@SuperFlik]

My biggest problem with Gwen right now is these multiverse mini-series, they've completely ignored how her most recent series ended and her King In Black tie-in. Earth-65 Sue and Johnny Storm effectively kicked her out of the universe and in KiB her MJ gets pulled into Earth-616 and bonded with a Carnage symbiote. Now Gwenverse and Shadow Clones (and likely the upcoming "Smash" mini-series) completely ignore this and Gwen's back on Earth-65 like nothing happened

[@TevyaSmolka]

I've been saying for a very long time that Spider-gwen should've stayed in her own universe and putting her in the mainstream marvel universe was a bad idea from the very beginning.

[@Lastjustice]

Marvel tries always trim the tree, so if any spin off characters ever get traction, they get migrated to 616 eventually. They don't like to maintain multiple universes for too long. They can be backdrops from events and single stories, but they don't want to live there.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@Lastjustice indeed and honestly for me the only character I give a damn about are mayday parker spider-girl and benjy parker her brother and that's about it., every other spin off character they tried to relegate in the mainstream marvel universe has failed badly in my opinion.

[@Lastjustice]

@@TevyaSmolka I get having multiple worlds can be confusing at a glance, but if the writers are willing maintain it , let them as anyone who really cares about the character will figure it out. This everything is 616 or bust attitude clogs up the main universe and makes the original characters less special. It would be one thing if Marvel actually retired or permantly killed off existing characters and they needed to replace them over time, but we all know this isn't the case. Especially for major players like Peter Parker. He's going to live as long as Marvel itself does, so any music chairs they play with mantles will always result in him coming back to his starting spot, and everyone else getting a new name. Eventually writers don't know what to do with the excess characters, then they get forgotten or killed. (like poor Ben Reilly.) By leaving them in their home world it gives them a purpose and a reason to be outside the main story that doesn't require them to get the axe. Marvel continuity sometimes is it's own worst enemy.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@Lastjustice that's true and you're right about that sadly and it seems to me that marvel refuses to learn from there past mistakes and keep doubling down on bad ideas and ruining great characters for garbage at least in my opinion.

[@kingofthebis1068]

Spider Gwen just forgetting the way her solo ended was wild

[@lucastheprinceofdarkness9344]

To me. What ruined Spider-Gwen was the fact that Marvel hasn’t delivered a follow up to her last story where she was EXILED from her New York by evil versions of The Invisible Woman and Human Torch. And Jackal from 616 now living in her reality like the creep he is. Or the fact that her MJ might still be infected with Carnage Symbiote created by Knull. No follow up and it’s driving me crazy! But like you said, the covers for the last two Gwen stories were fire and I’m glad you and the artist are friends. On a quick side note, I have to admit that I’m not at all tired of Multiverse stories in media. Make no mistake, there shouldn’t be another Spider-Verse EVENT, but I am totally down for another series exploring the multiverse or revisiting fan favorite realities. Sorry to anyone who is sick to there stomach about anything Multiverse related.

[@darren.mcauliffe]

The original run was amazing. Now it’s just “what if Gwen was this character” over and over. How about some original ideas on her world?

[@silversonome5360]

Gwenpool: *signature look of superiority*

[@midnight_horizen8184]

@@silversonome5360I mean she ain’t even a Gwen Stacy. Still peak

[@agreatmanlookingtotheright]

They should do a what if Gwen was Peters Parkers girlfriend but then got killed by a villian with a colour in his name. It sounds like it could become iconic enough to be adapted into a awful movie.

[@SnackCanary]

Yeah, one of the best parts of Spider-Gwen was watching them flesh out the unique and stylish world. It was ripe for exploring further and it's a shame that that was prioritized less and less with each series. Ghost Spider got a bit better by the end when they brought in her universe's Sue & Johnny Stom. But it more or less ended abruptly there. And everything afterwards just doesn't seem to really try at all. It's a shame.

[@sabertoothsentry1418]

The good news is that it sounds like Gwen's new mini is going to be the Mary Janes on tour for a romp around Earth-65. Hopefully we get to see some new, interesting corners of the universe with fun takes on familiar characters. I liked the Web Warriors book, but it shouldn't be the defining factor for any of the characters involved, especially Gwen, who had her own book.

[@TekoMythmaster]

I actually kinda liked the Gwen-Verse comic (although for context it was also the first Spider-Gwen thing I read), it was interesting to see them use that kind of multiverse setup as a way for a character to explore their own internal issues rather than just being a standard multiverse "thing", and seemed like it was going to be a good launching point for them to start focusing back in on Gwen doing stuff in her own universe and pull her away from 616 continuity. Especially given how much they focused in on how the massive amount time she was spending in 616 was hurting her friends back home at the start of the story, and how her character arc kinda honed in on her deciding she didn't need to be around the excitement of 616 all the time. Shadow clones on the other hand was the same thing. Again. Immediately after the first. Worse in almost every way, somehow way less clever, and also left a bunch of weird loose ends that means Earth-65 now randomly has like 5 clones of Gwen just kinda, around? I probably would have had a much better opinion of the story if they had done like anything else in-between the two stories. Putting them back-to-back like that just made them both seem worse retroactively, and I totally get why Drake would have such lukewarm feelings about them after that. The fact that Shadow Clones' character arc for Gwen was just the same tired "maybe I'm actually the bad guy" trope stuff we've seen a million times before also didn't help.

[@TekoMythmaster]

Come to think of it, Shadow Clones would have been a way more interesting story if the clones had been made in Gwen's absence without her knowledge based on her pre or post powers DNA to replace her since she hasn't been around for so long. That could have been a way more interesting dynamic!

[@ExeErdna]

The problem is Marvel needs more villains tuned into for these heroes. Legacy characers have their rogues and rivals. A lot of newer characters especially the Spiders lack this. Honestly there's too many Spiders in one place. Eddie had one of the best arcs in his whole history. Carnage stays having arcs, Ben's arc in Dark Web wasn't good. Nobody really talks about what Miles is doing. Cindy is around I guess. Now when it comes Gwen she SHOULD have had more done. It feels like she exists yet doesn't at the same time. She's ignored for major arcs and is more known for pin-up pieces of fanart, The movies and the fact she's cosplay bait. They do the female Spiders kinda dirty like they must have somebody that want to write a serious arc. Something that isn't rage bait that's gonna get canned in a few months. Characters like Gwen deserve so much better. She should be more involved with all Spider stories like there's a lot that could have happened with her in Dark Web.

[@Youarewhatyoueatsonic]

I really feel like making a game about her universe would be an amazing idea. Kind of like the insomniac ones, it gives them way more time to develop her world then a movie would. She’s one of my favorite Spider-Man counterparts, and I really want to see them so something with her.

[@SilentMeteorite]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE AN INSOMNIAC GWEN STACEY GAME (that actually just stays in her world and doesn't---or at least sparingly---touches the multiverse) WOULD GO SO HARD

[@cybertramon0012]

My problem with Spider-Gwen was how it started building up some problems for her to face... and then they just seemed to disappear. The Storms kicked her out of her own dimension, her blackouts that may be Venom taking control, Ultimate Reed Richards; all that just disappeared. I was hoping we'd see those pan out. For Venom it could've been the symbiote eventually taking over for Gwen's own good, with Peter having to convince them that Gwen doesn't want to kill her threats. And for the Storms, imagine the mainverse Fantastic Four being called in to help bring them in. Given that 616 Johnny didn't seem as vicious as his sister, maybe main Johnny or Sue could've talked him down.

[@myorrin1018]

thank you for saying what the fans have been yelling since she went to 616 in the first place!!! its especially frustrating cuz it seems the mandate was to present going to 616 as the answer to her problems in that story without digging into all the obvious problems that would come from her living part-time in a world where she died years ago. maybe the 616 spider-gwen stories couldve been interesting if there was any effort to make stories happen but it really was just so she'd be available for big 616 spider-tie-in events :// but i do wanna say, i personally, have never thought that the spider-gwen name is problematic. like spider-gwen exists as purely external branding, so long as people can understand that, what's the problem!? i think marvel just made it more complicated taking her from spider-woman to ghost spider (which was someone else's code name in 2000s iirc???). a problem we wouldnt even have if theyd just kept printing Gwen books set in earth-65!!!! anyways love your work man this one was great!

[@FantasmaNaranja]

that's how you know she's a real marvel spider with mediocre comics that keep getting worse due to editorial manipulation that is

[@ExeErdna]

Sad but so damn true

[@GenerationWest]

Were at the "having your cake and eating it" situation with her. They want her universe around, but they also want her with everyone else, as of now, they don't seem to be married to either one. I know everyone will hate me saying it, but they should just integrate her in the main universe, Miles style. Just keep her in one place, and work from there, or just keep her in universe... and we know that's something they seem to not like doing.

[@HenryLouis21]

I don't know, I rather she stays on Earth-65 and have her own adventures there instead of integrating her into the main universe because what is the point of a multiverse if you are not gonna have a character remain in the universe they are from.

[@megan_alnico]

I met Robbie Rodriguez at a comic book shop in Portland. He said he designed Gwens costume after a night at the bar. He whipped it up in like 5 minutes while at some level of inebriation.

[@beansfebreeze]

I'm really not a fan of gwen and miles having romantic tension. Sometimes men and women can just be friends and that's it

[@frogurtcremebrulee5252]

Welcome to heteronormative society

[@toxin8571]

Movies or Comics?

[@sabertoothsentry1418]

It's especially weird in Sitting in a Tree because Miles was a high schooler, and still is, while in Gwen's book, I'm pretty sure it had been established that she was out of high school and kinda listless about her life outside of superheroing. It's been a while since I've read that original Spider-Gwen run, but I seem to remember her supporting cast being like "So... when are you going to start college or... anything really?" Implying that she'd been done with high school long enough that her dad and her friends were starting to get concerned.

[@supermagnumable]

I feel like this argument is only used for miles/Gwen There are so many couples and pairings that people willingly ship without ANY “platonic” rhetoric But you’re gonna say no when we all know it’s true smh

[@user-vs5gb7pt3h]

It works in the movies, but I don't what it to be in comics

[@lasercraft32]

I'm so glad Gwen got some time to shine in Across the Spiderverse... Yeah she's still very closely linked to the whole multiverse concept, but they also gave a lot of focus on her actual story, basically making her a co-main character alongside Miles.

[@boredhuman6512]

Actually I was afraid for nothing, I watch your videos occasionally but I am no that into comics, I tried and tried again but a lot of problems really pushed me away. Then I tried spider gwens original series and that really worked for me, it still had those moments where I didn't know what was going on and too much multiverse stuff but her having her own journey thats pretty much an AU of the typical spiderman stories I knew with smaller twists and different more moody tone made it very enjoyable and easy to get into for me. After that they realized her success and it feels like all comics after just lose that tone and shove her into more multiverse wacky stuff I can't really understand I mean I guess its on me for choosing a character explicitly tied to the spiderverse but just her adventures in her own world detached from the pressure of mainline marvel was really fun for me.

[@dandragonz3483]

100% agree with the video, love it, really like this one and the gwenpool one, really wanna see more since a lot of comics are in a weird state right now and I’d like to learn more about why and what’s happening, I like that the positives are also mentioned so that it doesn’t just come off as a rant cuz I can tell he actually really cares about these comics and characters, can’t wait to see more

[@Norcoo]

Good video. I would love to see your take on Silk, it's the Spider-person I think is the most interesting at the moment. A lot of it has to do that she knows her head is effed up from spending years in isolation so she goes to a shrink to deal with it. Which I think Peter Parker should be smart enough to figure out that he needs the same, but never figures that out.

[@BullseyeRey]

What i didn't understand about Shadow Clones is why Miles Warren wasn't involved, he moved to Earth-65 in Gwen's last ongoing and his whole thing is cloning.

[@benjaminauge8987]

What's crazy is there is a really incredible take on all the Gwen cross overs that was running around the same time. Or at least I think it's similar enough. Jessica Jones Varirent's is a similar idea but just done really well.

[@ShadowWingTronix]

I'd also throw in the baggage of her being Gwen Stacy, in so much that some Marvel writers seem obsessed with Peter's dead fiance while ending the actual Spider-Marriage. That's why everyone sees her as Gwen. The best hope is that the kids watching the cartoons (In Marvel Rising Peter was replaced with a new character and in Spidey & His Amazing Friends Gwen is just one of the Team Spidey members, the same show that nicknames Miles as "Spin" and replaced Gwen's dad with her mom for some reason) will get more used to Ghost Spider and the Spider-Gwen name can be weaned off.

[@kennyrdskynyrd1101]

It's funny that they gave her the name Ghost Spider so she wouldn't have name crossover even tho she got it in a Spider-Man crossover event where there's already a Ghost Spider who fits the name better

[@uncannydcmarvelous5732]

It's the Peter Ghost Rider one or...?

[@kennyrdskynyrd1101]

@uncannydcmarvelous5732 Yeah Ghost Rider Peter Parker

[@wesreleases6346]

Great video that points out two of my biggest problems with Marvel: taking characters that work with a certain creative team in a unique tone and overexposing them to the rest of universe, and over-reliance on the multiverse as a cheap gimmick. I think Spider-Gwen suffered a similar problem that Miles Morales and even Ms. Marvel did. Their original solo series were big hits because they were tonally fresh and focused on an original character. But because they became popular, Marvel quickly wanted them to meet all the other characters, put them on teams, and take away the smaller, character-focused stories that made them good in the first place. And while the multiverse is a fun concept for creating alternate continuities and being creative, it’s lost its luster. The Spider-Verse movies and No Way Home nailed it because they use other Spider-Men to make the main character take a harder look at himself and what being a hero means. But when Spider-Man becomes defined by the multiverse, he’s not a normal guy anymore.

[@AtomicF0x]

Yeah, what makes a crossover/multiverse story with our favorite characters fun is that it's a _rare_ departure from the established stories, not because they _stay_ in them forever. Granted, multiverse stories can still continue to exist, but they should just be used more sparingly. It's like having dessert for every single meal; _pretty soon...it stops being a treat._

[@MildlyAggressiveOni]

What I’ve learned about myself over the years is while I love “alternate universe” stories (or stories that take a concept you’re familiar with and changes it up), I’ve really begun hate multiverse stories and I have a love/hate relationship with Spider-Gwen because of that

[@loke6664]

I fear that Marvel is over extending themselves as well as focusing on whatever troupe they think are hot (multiverse for a while now). Having so many titles and many of them with rather similar story makes people burn out on them and it doesn't help that they only have so many good writers either. I don't think it helps anyone to add more Spider people to the same dimension, there are already quite a few and it is far more interesting when Gwen is the only one in her home in general. Spider verse was fun because the movies were very different and unique but it doesn't work if you try to do the same thing in several books. Marvel has so many heroes that there seems to be one under every rock and I don't think that makes a better story then when Super heroes were relatively rare back when Lee and Kirby were handling things. With Spider Gwen they had a chance to explore a world with far less heroes and to create a new story without the readers having to know 80 years of lore and keep track on all the other books, it is a great way to get in new readers without confusing them but they are blowing it because they want to ship Gwen with another Spider person.

[@marhawkman303]

they're over-reinventing I think, trying to do "new" stuff.. and.. forgetting what made it work int he first place. Spider-Gwen was good because she WASN'T in 616.

[@loke6664]

@@marhawkman303 You know, DC was in a similar situation with tons of confusing multi verses before "Crisis on infinite earths" and it wouldn't surprise me if Marvel eventually do a similar events comic. But yeah, the good part of multi verses is that you can write unique comics and not over populate your main world at the same time. But Marvel get a bit greedy when a multi verse hero gets popular and just place them in 616 instead but that isn't a great idea. In general I am not a fan of the multi verse comics, it isn't as bad as time travel (which always leads to tons of plot holes) but it gets confusing and a lot of the multi verse characters are just slight variations or a regular character with a troupe on them. That is when you keep on mixing the different universes, it gets painful for new viewers after a while.

[@fralambert8377]

If they want to ship Gwen with another Spider person, just give spider powers to Jesse Drew chidren (Earth-65 Jessica Drew male variant) and voilà! It keep that lore of the original comics and is a call back to many comics like Spider Girl where Mayday Parker inherit her father power. Also one of the avdvantage of a relativly closed world, it that the authors can introduce mostly what they want, except if this was previously established. And they could be subversion or homage to previous lores for long term readers too! We know that Earth-65 is a world that don't seem to allow superhero teams and didn't seem to like Superman type caracters, after that all is possible! Just sad that we didn't see the authors making the comic in her world, so they can write unique and original stories that don't have to fitting in the general 616 cannon. If they want original multiverse stuffs, just do a comic serie about how her Captain America punched her way to Earth-65 in the multiverse. She done that for 75 years, obliviously she seen strange stuffs.

[@loke6664]

@@fralambert8377 I'm not sure that having characters with the exact same power in a relationship would be anything but a bit weird, having similar genes is not actually great for couples, ask the Hapsburgs. But at least she doesn't have a main villain with the exact same powers, like in so many movies. In any case do the Marvel multiverse feel more confusing then the Rick and Morty universe now and that isn't great, keep your characters where they belong.

[@fralambert8377]

@@loke6664 That was more a idea is you want to introduce other spider peoples to Earth-65. And I didn't think of any relationship between Gwen or Jesse Drew kids, they have like 10 in the comic? Oo Could be more a mentor thing, even if mentor is the most dangerous job in story telling.

[@sirjess007]

I think what made Spider-Gwen more popular but also amazingly great was of course in the Spider-Verse movies and I love her because of the films, cuz in my personal opinion, Spider-Gwen was honestly the best creation for Gwen Stacy as she’s something more than just somebody to die to motivate Peter’s life. She has the right to be just name Spider-Woman as much Miles being named Spider-Man🙌🏻

[@Zekrel]

8:09 missed opportunity to point out that “Ghost-Spider” was taken

[@TicTonic96]

Both Gwen and Miles have problems with them in the series they involved in

[@matthewrooney8834]

Only thing I don’t like is she dosnt call herself spider woman in media I don’t like the ghost spider name except for the ghost rider version

[@ExeErdna]

There are more Spider-Women than Spider-Men. Ghost Spider works let it stick we don't need more name overlap

[@matthewrooney8834]

@@ExeErdna I know but we have 2 spider men and a whole multiverse of them as well we can’t have 3 spider women

[@ExeErdna]

@@matthewrooney8834 There's like 7 in 616. Ghost Spider works for her.

[@LinkDing]

It baffles me that people genuinely dislike the name Ghost Spider for her. Honestly, it's the genuine perfect fit. A badass name that honestly fits her better than Spider Woman. Like actually looking at her? Sure there's a web theme but honestly I'd probably have looked at the pale white parts and come up with the ghost part of her name more naturally than spider. So it makes sense why she'd end up as Ghost Spider.

[@Overthinking_Media]

While I hold nothing against creators having to do sponsored videos (because KZbin really doesn't pay it's creators anymore) and I'm sure there were things Drake HAD to contractually say, but the way the Ad was worded tries to avoid the fact it has micro transactions

[@lolstalgic9602]

Spider-Gwen is yet another example of "We could've, but we didn't" in Marvel comics

[@janaviselva2476]

I'm glad somebody is addressing it because I love Spider-Gwen that character means a lot to me . There's so much to do with her character yet Marvel just keeps shoving her into Spider-Verse events even though there's so much more interesting stories to tell with her outside of that. the Spider-Verse movies have done a better job with the character than her recent comics.

[@ExeErdna]

Marvel is too far gone with bombasitc story arcs their writers seems to forget smaller stories without wild stakes looming over head are good too. Yet since everything is connected now it's hard to just isolate a character have them do their own thing without the next guy ignoring everything the other creator did

[@camgoodkicks]

My biggest beef with Gwen is that there is almost no interaction between her and any of the Peters. Losing hers was arguably her defining moment but nobody has really used that or pushed it from what I’ve read. Please educate me if there is a story exploring this

[@VoIcano]

1:41 You inspired me to go back and check, we see characters from 9 universes: Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 3, Earth 4, Earth Six (different than earth 6), Earth S, Earth X, Earth Twelve (cameo) and Earth Prime, with additionally some panels of unnamed universes being destroyed

[@stephanberger3476]

Drake is biased (even if it's just a bit) towards Marvel. That isn't a secret, I bet Drake would even confirm it when asked.

[@v.v365]

I love the name Ghost Spider, and I made a concrete reason for that name when I added Gwen to my Spidersona story, since it’s another alternate universe with spider heroes. I liked the Gwenom concept so I made Gwen inherit a symbiote called Prism from its former host who dies (Prism and the original host, an OC called Amber Herald, are basically the Sony movie Venom and Eddie Brock of my story, lethal protectors, a bonded pair) and Prism is a symbiote that can refract and reflect light, turning itself invisible, so when Gwen gets the symbiote she also gets that invisibility power, like how Into the Spiderverse sees Miles with invisibility.

[@Lastjustice]

Having Gwen Stacy do something besides be the dead girl friend of Peter Parker was a much needed change. I really like this flipping of Gwen being one to get powers over Peter, and how they tweaked everything else. I agree multiverse(and Time travel) are elements that need be used sparingly and have limits. Otherwise you reach a point where nothing really matters. Characters need clear boundaries of what is theirs because where does their commitments end? How many earths and people is a single hero responsible for protecting? Does it matter if you save anyone if there's a billion versions of them out there? Characters stop being unique if they are flooded with a sea of knock offs. (How many spider people does a single comic universe need?) At some point you just need get back to basics and let the character have their own smaller stories about them, as not every story needs be a world or universe ending event. You have find a balance otherwise you burn things out.

[@billtree52]

I honestly prefer the name Ghost Spider for her. It's a little more unique and you know exactly who we're talking about. Also my kids really love the Spidey cartoon that's on Disney Jr that has Ghost-Spider, Spidey, and Spin altogether as little kids. It's dumb but it's pretty cool and I get the excuse to watch the Spiderverse movies too 😂

[@Michaela_ZC]

After Across the Spider-Verse, I got really into Spider-Gwen as a character. So naturally, I picked up the comic volumes with her name on it. I loved those comics for exactly the reasons you said. But really as soon as the 2nd volume, things fell apart. Because she's part of these Spider-verse events, she left her own universe for weeks at a time. This stunted the conflict of those stories, & brought in new ones from the event comics I had no context for. It's so frustrating, especially cuz there's no indication of "hey BTW you need to read this whole other comic before reading the next one of this series sryyyyy". I was only on volume 3 (and I'm not sure if I finished it) and I don't think I'll read the next one if he keeps getting worse like you said.

[@mega_bird700]

A multiverse story can work if there’s not a lot of alternate universes, like I’d say at max there should only be 10 alternate universes not an infinite amount. The actual reason why there’s so many universes in Marvel and DC is because of how often new writers come in and leave, so they retcon those stories and label them as an alternate universe. I can’t tell you how frustrating it got when I was reading X-men comics and the ones I really liked got retconned and new writers came in.

[@GonicWarrior921]

7:33 You leave Danny Phantom alone, Drake! 😭😂🤣

[@BuoyB]

Gwen getting all this side-tracked multiversal attention while I’m still waiting for Peni Parker to get a solo series 😭

[@drbowser166]

I know this was a small part but legit, if you give someone a code name of "Drake" shouldn't they at least be dragon related? Dragons, Drakes, Wyverns? Not just, ya know, defeating the purpose of a code name? Small thing there with that bit of you pointing it out. But overall love these videos. I actually picked up some comics for a convention last month I'm about to finish up here and wondering if you've ever taken a look at that relate to the Spiderman group of characters. More so the Red Goblin series? So far I've finished 3 or 4 comics in the collection of 5 that I got and so far I really like it. First comics I've bought in a while and it was purely because I wanted something with a Symbiote character and saw this at a local comic shop and picked it up.

[@jerfuhrer2581]

Not censoring your foot in that ad! Lmao!!!!😂😂😂😂😂

[@Dxrkzy.]

Gwen has been my one of fav superheroes through my childhood I’ve read most of her comic and imo I enjoyed them and glad the spider verse has brought her back ❤

[@superaustin6383]

I actually really liked the last two Gwen Mini series my only issue being why wasn't Jackel the villain of Shadow Clones? He's actually in her universe he followed her from 616 the set up is right there it would even explain better why Ock and some other villains got into her world for the DNA. It does suck her last full series got cut short as you can tell a story like with the Jackel and Johnny and Susan storm was meant to go somewhere but we never got a follow up right after that she left for 616 due to what was happening which is fine then next she's part of the Venom event that has her MJ become Carnage and next time she has a series she's back in her world not mention of MJ having been taken over and the hint she's still part Carnage and no mention of Jackel or the Storm siblings Unless some stuff was explained in other books I missed. I'd like to see that's stuff resolved

[@burlong01]

The problem with Spider-Gwen is that she's not currently sitting on my face.

[@SteveOh_]

I do want to say that the two Spider Gwen series that Drake talks about where it starts as a multiverse tie in leading into Gwen going to Uni in the 616 is actually pretty good imo. Like the book itself isn't low quality, its just like what the video says where the book focuses on 616 as a setting instead of Earth 65.

[@biancaxbella]

Cheers for including one of my Spider-Gwen selfies! Interesting points also.

[@ComicDrake]

It looks good! That mask in particular is real solid. 🤙

[@biancaxbella]

@@ComicDrake Thank you, I appreciate the kind words!

[@swandive46]

The Spider-person count sounds interesting. Would love for you to dive into the numerous Carnage symbiotes.

[@Spllyn]

Thanks for Sponsoring the video Monopoly Go, I will have to check it out!

[@Buster_Chestnut]

my kid got into Spider-Gwen while watching "Spidey and his amazing friends" and has only known her as Ghost Spider. It's been a battle, because this old comics-head will probably always call her Spider-Gwen. We just bought a "Toney" based off of Gwen YESTERDAY. so she is definitely going to keep going. I hope these kids do a better job with her in the future when they tell their stories.

[@toughteddybear5777]

8:05 I'm just thinking of Nemo trying to pronounce anemone now

[@givemeyourknees7178]

also, can we talk about WHY shes in 616? like, cmon, Influencer fantastic 2. Oh, and the "We'll be back to finish this dangling plot thread" just ends up not happening, leaving 65 a world where like, she just had to abandon it and all her friends, family, and worst of all, the bodega bandit! All for the forseable future, the "bad guys" (not that they were bad guys, just the antagonists) fuckin won.

[@BullseyeRey]

I hated how In Shadow Clones the Sinister Six from 616, who just show up in Earth-65 with no explanation. Gwen has her own version of the six.

[@KichiMiangra]

NGL many people back in the day said that people only liked Gwen for her cool costume, and I have to admit, finding a hoodie based on her suit was what first caught my attention to her and I started buying the comics to learn more about her. I loved Spider Gwen in her original run and collected a lot of her merchandise and even subscribed to her comics. After the original run by Jason Latour and Robbie Rodriguez I started quickly petering off though. It had felt like for a bit in the main run that it was only being used as a place to showcase new ideas for alternate versions of known characters like Wolverine popping in for like 5 seconds as a samurai, but I had loved the drama coming from the storyline with her and her dad, her losing her powers, the relationship between herself and Matt Murdock for said powers, etc. But mostly I liked that it was a new story, in a new universe, that lets me mostly enjoy this self contained world. It was a great condensed place to start and stay and even the occasional multiverse crossover like "Spider Women" and "Sitting in a Tree" were enjoyable even if I had to make special trips to the comic book shop to get the missing issues because I didn't subscribe to Miles Morales' comic or Jessica Drew and Cindy Moon's comics. I loved it even if later issues felt like reasons to just bring in a new version of Wolvie or S.H.I.E.L.D and shit. But the minute she started hanging out in the Main Universe it was like... who fricking cares anymore? It's practically rebooting her if she's spending most of her time in the main universe versus her own and just... quickly lost it's magic after that and I almost blame the "Multiverse" for it. Because really, she can run away whenever she wants, Rick and Morty style. And now she's just part of this... well... overbearingly large universe that is just too much for me.... and one of the reasons I found it hard to get into marvel's cape comics to begin with.

[@garymckay2929]

So grateful for your videos. Genuinely mean so much to me

[@tedxteddy]

Spiderman has a editorial problem

[@prosperotorres7965]

Totally agree Drake. Alternate Canon characters are best left in their native realms (crisis on two earths type stories should be the exception not the rule). Examples I can think of… Old Man Logan, Ultimate Marvel; May Parker/Spider-Girl; every marvel other media adaptation (cartoons; movies etc); Ultraverse; Marvel Noir; Marvel Zombies; Marvel 1602; Marvel 2099; Punisher Max; Supreme Power and countless others. Most of the stories of most of these characters and settings didn’t involve bleeding into the mainstream verse and they where better for it.

[@DW3010]

That, and the fact the original run never had an ending. The back page of the last issue just says, “Gwenstils down” and tells you this was the last issue.

[@THATGuy5654]

The fact that, with the last couple decades of cinema being dominated by superhero movies, seemingly no one has figured out how to translate that into more comic book readers, continues to be an endless source of bewilderment for me. I don't know, maybe they should have considered actually advertising that they exist. Might help.

[@wesreleases6346]

Marvel seemingly continues to think the key lies in making the stories of the comics match closer to the films. Like people will march straight into a comic shop from the theater but then throw a fit if the latest #1 isn’t the exact story they just watched.

[@GuardianNamick]

It was great watching this as a premiere I got to be honest.

[@mattwo7]

9:01 Wait, the guy who did the super awesome art for City of Heroes (and penciled most of the art for the Top Cow CoH comic)?! (I also recently saw his work in Fortnite Chapter 4, which was really weird)

[@depreseo]

Lightning in a bottle. I remember when the first event came out and we all bought that edge of spider verse issue - marvel PR were immediately trying to make other members of the spider verse that next lightning in a bottle "lady spider will be the next etc.", but the look and aesthetic if Gwen is what stuck. Gwens alt-rocknaesthetic "low powers" (as later described, yet still with lizards Captain America's, green goblins and ninjas) made for a compelling world for a number of mini series, but they also showed the very very obvious - marvel had no idea what to do with the character and where to take her. I mean, spider Gwen came out during the post-"Gwen Stacey wasn't all that look how flawed she was sleeping with norman oborn etc" character assassination phase of marvel, and the characters popularity lead to marvel having to spend half a decade-ish trying to fix publishing problems.that they themselves created: "by sleep with Norma Osborn and having hisnkids innoaris, what we HACTUALLY mean was, she did noe if that and that all references that she did were a mixture of Mysterio plots and demons, yes, demons from hell" (true story). So with gwen-65 becoming big, they tried fixing their own character assassination of gwen-616, but in doing so also lost the basic characterisation of Gwen-65 either making here a 616-clone (que the jackal) or a character who doesn't really reaemble her alt rock original character - I read gwen-vers having only read the original first few series and was confused as to the sudden change in characterisation and power-sets. But as said, most of this stems from marvel being multiverse mad. But very much like a few other marvel books I think gwen-65 would work as a series of limited series (10-12 issue runs) plotted out to tell specific stories in her own world, so when we come back to that multiversal madness we can appreciate how earth-65 is meant to be.

[@D3athL1vin]

I just find it weird that gwen is paired up with miles when she was originally the same age as peter, thats like if you dated the alternate universe version of your mentor's dead girlfriend

[@commonviewer2488]

That _is_ what it is. Feels too weird

[@lord_egg]

I can't wait for them to make the Spider-Gwen comics about Spider-Gwen talking to Comic Gwen about Comics written by Spider-Gwen.

[@j.rproductions8644]

Great video drake!

[@user-gh8wo7tr1c]

Bro thought he could get away with blurring his feet

[@intergalactic92]

Her original two runs are fantastic. The multiverse stuff did always irk me to a degree, but she was created specifically for a multiverse event. It is baked into her character so you kind of have to accept that there will always be some sort of multiverse shenanigans. But I do think they have gone too far. I have been reluctant to read Ghost Spider and the later comics so far simply out of fear that they wouldn’t live up to previous ones (and because the original ends on such a note of finality). This video has only reinforced that.

[@Tuaron]

I really do love a lot of the earlier Spider-Gwen stuff, especially as I do love a good parallel world take on stuff I like (Jason Aaron's Avengers run went too far, but I did appreciate aspects for that reason). Much as I have found the newer runs disappointing in comparison, I actually didn't mind Gwenverse or Shadow Clones (actually, I even preferred that one, I think it did a little better with its premise) - fully agree that I'll probably mostly forget them, but they were enjoyable enough for a read. The covers were fantastic (gonna have to see if David posted here, gotta send my own kudos), definitely the highlight (actually, I think the art has been one reason I've loved the various Spider-Gwen runs, as there was some fantastic work there).

[@graysonred2641]

Another great video

[@AHeroAlmost]

I have twin girls that are 4 & both call her “Ghost Spider” & are obsessed with her ..

[@dude5599]

60s Japanese spiderman is so amazing I’ve seen one or 2 episodes of the show and it is insane in the best way possible

[@lagvaldemag8593]

Good thing upcoming Spider-Gwen comic will be about her going on a tour with her band. Hopefully, it will be better.

[@matthewluebbering7180]

This was similar to my complaint with Ultimate Spider-Man the animation series because all but the last season were nothing but team ups and Spider-Man rarely fought any of his own villains

[@D3athL1vin]

ghost-spider actually makes sense since she died before

[@KainGerc]

if she's in her own universe, there's only so much people can get invested in an alternate Marvel universe (especially one not as unique as hers) if she's in the main 616 universe, there's only so much you can do with an alternate reality version of an existing deceased character (plus, considering the age difference, it would get really awkward if she hanged around Peter and his supporting cast too much), even without mentioning the multitudes of Spider people already swinging around there.

[@zuffin1864]

I think the problem with "new characters" involving a multiverse is the continuous deviation from the source material, making identities of the character feel lost, on top of usual multiverse goofiness

[@martinbabich1920]

8:13 isn't there a variant of Peter Parker called Ghost spider?

[@boredhuman6512]

Oh no one of the comics I actually read is spidergwen

[@michaelmaguire4147]

7:35 tell that to Atom Eve lol

[@Fenoverse]

Please do a video about red tornado. He’s my favorite superhero, and I barley hear anyone talk about him

[@noampresnete8677]

the problem with the multiverse is that the idea is mixing diffrent ideas together, but if you have too many of them they stop becoming diffrent ideas, they just become "multiverse stuff". if gwen isn't aloud to be punk rock, what is her purpose?

[@amauryantoine418]

1:18 when you're so popular you have to censor your feet 😅

[@NANA-lt6hd]

To me the dip in quality for her comics started when Marvel began to introduce her universe's versions of 616 heroes that didn't really have a solid reason to be in them such Wolverine or Captain America. Mat Murdock and Punisher made sense to be in her stories since they didn't really took away the spotlight from her. She was still the hero. The thing about Spider-Man stories is that they best work when he is a solo act and for the time when Spider-Gwen was the only hero in her story it worked but soon as you introduced other heroes in her universe it takes a lot away from her.

[@Pirate-yw6pf]

1:25 nice touch blurring the feet