The Problem with the Zero TC META on ACC

[@aedn6855]

TC0 is utilised in real life, usually in qualifying trim. most GT3s have some TC 'bypass' functionality, so they can cut out TC intervention on exits. TC0 in ACC creates the possibility of more rotation on exit, but the way to see it is it allows you to accelerate whilst you sit on the limit of the tyres where TC1+ might see that as too much slip and begin to limit power. Mustang and Merc have very generous slip angles before low TCs start cutting in, so see fewer benefits from running TC0. Generally we get away with it in the sim because we have a lot of grip, even in "low grip conditions", and we also have no consequences to overdoing it. We can just RTG and go again and don't need our engineers to rebuild the car all night, splash out £100ks on a new chassis etc.

[@Jardier]

TC0 meta is the worst thing in my eyes that ever happened to ACC. Not even close to full negative toe and such this is by far the worst and made the biggest gap between pro and normal drivers. Ruined BOP for many people as well (because you have car bopped for TC0 laptime but you cant drive like that). And yes its unrealistic. In real GT3 they never turn off TC. Yes you drive different in real life so TC doesnt trigger that much and it also works better. But I hate it in ACC :D

[@rickrolled7930]

There's no real jardier comment without a nice emoji somewhere :) But do they bop cars for tc0 in lfm or leagues?

[@KrypticTMG]

@@Jardier Yh I didn't even think of that as well, cars being boped via laps done with 0 TC when most drivers will struggle to drive the car that way.

[@SimracingArnout]

I have a solution. Take an event when 0 tc is not allowed. When you switch to 0tc dsq!

[@lowfastracing]

@Jardier every word in your first paragraph is so true...

[@AdamIsailovic]

That is true, nice point there, why would they BOP for TC0... hm.

[@teemukarppinen9462]

Just for context about my spin on LFM PRO: I was meant to be on TC for that corner but forgot. Stomped on throttle expecting to have TC. I actually don't mind the TC off meta, it makes me feel like I'm in control of what's happening, instead of randomly losing time to TC triggers. The problem with TC is just that it's almost not a viable option anymore on eSports level due to the outdated TC slip values. It would be nice to at least have it as an option for wet and such.

[@KrypticTMG]

@@teemukarppinen9462 yeah I thought might be something like that but those things can happen specifically if your battling before the corner where you are suppose to put the TC up again. Do you find 0 TC more difficult in the Bentley than other cars.

[@teemukarppinen9462]

@@KrypticTMG Not really, the torque actually helps because you can short shift your way out of a lot. For example kyalami you don't need 1st gear at all which makes it a lot easier than something like Lambo for example. But it does for sure take a bit of time to get used to, it does have a strong torque kick. 😅

[@WTFDust]

@@teemukarppinen9462do you know approximately how much time you lose per Lap on average if you use for example tc 1-2 ? Ofc different Tracks mean different time gains, but i just want to get an idea of how much you lose theoretically. Thx in advance 😊

[@teemukarppinen9462]

@@WTFDust It's very track and car dependent. Some tracks are almost equal, some tracks you almost need to go tc off. Also some cars have a good tc like fiat and ford and they almost never do tc off. Some cars have really bad tc like audi and lambo and theyre tc off all the time. Also, if I'm not quite comfortable with the track or the setup, TC might even be faster sometimes. TC off truly is the last few tenths when everything else is already clicking. But when you are "dialed in" so to speak, TC off gains like 1-3 tenths depending on the track.

[@WTFDust]

@@teemukarppinen9462 Thanks a lot for your quick reply🤩As an Aston Driver and an „Average Joe“, i‘ll stick to tc 1-2 since i dont think that i am able to squeeze out these 1-3 tenths (depending on the Track)

[@Substituteless]

I thought what happened is that 1.9 changed the level of slip the tires experience, but they didn't remap the TC systems with the newer tires. So the TC cuts in before you actually reach the limit of grip

[@tooeasy1100]

TC in real life is also calibrated per racetrack, probably even per session. You can find onboards of the BMW M4 f.e. where the driver is using TC1. Most cars also have a TC disable button, which disables the TC for couple of seconds.

[@snippidippi]

This is a main issue with all sim race games, it's programmed with numbers and all pro esport players has this as work so they will always sitt in their own teams and look for glitches to find that 0.1s everywhere. Before every pro player was secret with their setups but since 1.9 some of them have shown the meta setups so players are generally faster now them before. If you want to make a sim race realistic you have to make a random number generator that has a certain impact to the game so you have to adapt to every race. That's not the case today! And the programming of the game is very generic as you can use almost same setup to every car and that's not good. All cars should differ and RNG should be implemented.

[@tooeasy1100]

Nils Naujoks made a video about this. His take was that it’s probably the old throttle model that makes this TC 0 stuff possible in the first place.

[@snappedbydan]

Aliens gonna alien. Everyone else will try to immitate.

[@robhoofs3932]

Tc on 0 is something they rarely do in real life. The risk is too big. Personally I think it is not making acc realistic. The tc is on these cars for a reason in real life. It should work the same on acc

[@sebastianberger746]

Realistic? Its a Game. You will never have the real Deal AS a Sim Racer. Just to have Not the responsibility for the health of Others and your self and to have the oppertunity to have infinitive track time makes a huge differences. And by the way ACC is more a Hardcore simcade than a simultion. They made many decisions that are pro Game fun and contra simulationfactor.

[@SimracingArnout]

Your problem is that you need to do this to get faster in your acc journey. 95% of drivers have still a million other areas they need to improve on. Btw on the audi i found a non meta with tc that makes it feel more rotating out of faster corners. 1 second faster on redbull ring. Low 28s which obviously isnt alien pace but good enough for me

[@KrypticTMG]

@@SimracingArnout I know what you mean most of the community can improve in various areas but running Zero or having to constantly change it during the lap may feel unnatural to me.

[@SimracingArnout]

@@KrypticTMG i hear you i struggle with this myself, still a hobby let the pros use tc goodbye have fun in their own competition

[@lemondigitaldesign]

The only thing that saves TC0 is that for more skill you get rewarded. But even that isn't a great save, it's still a disaster. I have most of the commercially available meta set ups and while I'm nowhere near alien times I'm no slouch once I get the practise in. Example Nordschleife: 8.08:5 in "normal" 23 degree in the Beemer, 08.9 in the Mustang. Now with both cars I can do these times with traction control on or traction control offf. My main problem is that I am obviously not skilled enough to find that extra rotation and find that extra acceleration even on tracks where I've done thousands of laps with set ups I spent dozens of hours learning. I am driving them at the limit of my capability but I'm not seeing any gain in terms of lap times even though I can drive moderately competitive times for a normal human. This also makes it not worth the risk of running TC0 for me. If I could find a one second gain would probably be too greedy to turn TC on. but since it's same same, I have just resigned to not having that ultimate feel in my foot :D So it does seem to me that this extra one percent really is reserved for the very top skilled players. That in itself is not really a bad thing. The really bad thing is the trickle down effect which you explain so well in your video: set ups are all the same, driving style there is only one, BoP is made for meta cars with meta drivers ... and so it trickles down the tree and in the end makes the game less enjoyable for all of us. Great video and good points :)

[@lowfastracing]

Thanks for this video, Kryptic!

[@FilthyCasualRacing]

I tried it. For sure it's faster, but... you have to be able to wield it consistently. Sort of like you said. Not for us mere mortals. Maybe one day after I get another 200 hours in, but for now I just need to make sure I can make it around the track lol.

[@lowfastracing]

They definitely use some magic setups for this.

[@f1ibraaa]

Never knew this was a meta and also whats the point when TC is made for these cars

[@ml33cg]

changing brake bias for certain corners will also help rotate the car

[@Madvizion]

I always put TC level to 1. Unless you have a very precise peddle system it's necessary. My lap times have dramatically improved when I put the level to 1. When I was racing in Gran Turismo I had all levels to 0. But that was Gran Turismo.

[@imJGott]

I can’t imagine driving the rcf on 0 TC. I do use TC 1

[@mdm009]

Do they use Tc even on cold tires? Or do they go down to 0 after 1st lap or so? Im also using mostly 1 to 3 Tc. And had been thinking going 0. But it’s just wrong feeling. Radillion on spa is realistic to go 0Tc over it cause some real drivers do it. But thats about it

[@MakeMEViral-ji9gb]

No they 0 from from start to finish in some cars. Even in the wet some were only using 1 TC

[@KrypticTMG]

@@mdm009 depends on the car but yes they use 0 TC on cold tires.

[@BongoBaggins]

I drive the Porsche and the Bentley. 0 TC simply isn't going to happen 😅

[@allanbrown3848]

I would love to see a real gt3 driver try tc 0 in there real life race car

[@AdamIsailovic]

It may be meta, but i don't know how to drive without TC, so i am fine :D

[@jh-oj7nb]

so what is the meta dampers? been out of the game for awhile.

[@DrewMac703]

Second that 😂 missed the oft mentioned meta dampers

[@AntalopeAUT]

0/0/max/max for many tracks

[@KrypticTMG]

@@jh-oj7nb Bump and slow rebounds on minimum fast bump and fast rebound on Max on front and rear dampers.

[@DrewMac703]

@@KrypticTMG What a difference! Thank you

[@mowglippml]

Can TC be set/restricted server side?

[@KrypticTMG]

@@mowglippml No I don't believe you can do that.

[@f1ibraaa]

Traction doesn’t give rotation… more the opposite it induces more understeer (assuming ur taking a corner correctly and on the limit of grip). Using brakes is what gives rotation 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@KrypticTMG]

@@f1ibraaa I said 0 TC allows to get more rotation specially in fast corners the higher you go on TC the more understeer you get when that TC kicks in.

[@slaphead90]

There is really only one optimal setup that enables a car to go round a circuit the fastest. In real life motor racing this setup may only be exploitable by one, maybe two, drivers on the grid, for the other drivers this setup won't suit their driving style, therefore will require an alternative setup, and a result will be slower. So that setup is hardly a META in this context In sim racing you suddenly have 200 to 300 top drivers that can exploit this setup, and as they're all top drivers they'll all be in the top splits, and all racing together with the same setup. At this point it's looking like this setup is the META. However it's not really as if you gave this setup to, for example, one of the other 9700 drivers then there's a good chance that they'll spend most of their time off track, or not have confidence in the car and find themselves tippy toeing around the circuit. So IMO this isn't a META as much as it is a skill issue.

[@KrypticTMG]

@@slaphead90 Respect your opinion but I disagree. The ACC Meta has changed many times and just like when we ran the negative toe which was so much faster it was literally free lap time, it didn't take any extra skill. Some Metas are more straight forward than others. When you consider some pedals have there own software where can adjust the throttle curve therefore making the accelerator more linear which helps in situations like what we have on ACC today.

[@mikewilliams1492]

Tc is definitely slower in gt7