Tigris & Euphrates - Shut Up & Sit Down Review

[@MURD3R3D]

we nearly saw Quinn's reference pair.

[@Stomski]

The finest move was making sure that Quinns' tunic provided enough shade that we couldn't get sight of his reference plums.

[@shanelaporte]

Are they allowed to have this much fun? Where are their parents?

[@lindybeige]

Yonder - I do not think that word means what you think it means. I love this game too. I have the original edition and am now curious about the extra bits in the new one. I think something you missed out is that there is a huge difference between the 2 and 3-player versions of this game. With three or four players, a major tactic is to join two cities controlled by your opponents, in order to cause a war between them. Hmmm.... a fine video.

[@timothymclean]

Pointing out the misuse of a word? A fine...wait, you already made that joke. Ah to hell with it. A fine move!

[@GuyMaleMan]

@@timothymclean this is a scam by the way, don’t look up instapwn

[@briggsbodhi6193]

Instablaster.

[@nyanates]

Oh yes!

[@loganmoody1816]

A game recommended by both Shut Up & Sit Down AND the one-and-only Lindybeige?? Reiner Kinizia, take my money!

[@acerumble]

1:13 pretty sure Matt painfully whacks his fingers on the side of the table, but keeps a straight face like a professional

[@WestKatoHardcore]

I think they just cut before his brain got the pain signal.

[@TheAmazingYeti]

A fine move.

[@TemplarBard]

This game looks like a Mess...opotamia.

[@sboistan]

it was the inspiration for the creation of boardgamegeek!

[@AzraelCcs]

Aw! a fine pun!

[@anonleft]

Oh, UR kidding

[@JessWLStuart]

Um... Babylon? Just thought I'd throw that word out there to see what happens!

[@butnooneshome]

@@JessWLStuart Someone was bound to do that 'Sumer' or later ...

[@hydrophiliak]

Please post the recipe for mothcake.

[@scbiggles]

We now require a tshirt that depicts monk Matt with an axe in his head and subtitled "A fine move!"

[@cjc2010]

This is one of SUSD's lowkey funniest and best reviews.

[@stevebratina8249]

I have a confession to make. I almost sold my copy of T&E because it doesn't make it to the table so often. But then I watched your review again. Thanks guys for saving me and my collection!

[@marlonsantana21]

“BILLYYY!” 🤣🤣🤣 I love you guys, I laugh so hard while watching you. You are funnier than tons of mainstream comediants, I’m so blessed to be inserted in this boardgaming community and to have find you on the internet. Thank you for keeping up, creating content can be a real pain and cost time, effort, you could be playing or doing whatever. Thank you.

[@Reffie2]

Where can I buy Future Chess 3000; Billy the Alien edition?

[@TigerGeorgeUK]

The interconnected running jokes in this one had me chuckling loads. So good

[@gomezthechimp1116]

By the time this was published (1997), I`d already playing euros for some 8 years, and I thought I had the main tropes of this gaming genre down. T&E blew all that away. I`m not a colour, I`m a shape? And all four colours in that shape? My lowest score out of the colours is my score? WTF is the difference between an internal conflict and an external one? (the original rules were fairly obscure). This was the first game in which I didn`t have a clue what I was doing for the entire time I was playing it. Now it seems almost simple...

[@StyxTBuferd]

Quinns has changed his opinion on Tigris and Euphrates? A FINE MOVE

[@anotherone5235]

I can't get over how you Fine Moving Italians always review Italian games by Italian people and teach us italian! A Fine Move indeed!

[@SmackleFunky]

At 8:10 - When Red's fight, you don't remove Red tiles that are supporting other leaders, so that wouldn't actually happen as depicted. :)

[@rachelandryan]

SmackleFunky Correct. I double-checked in the rule book. In this case you don't remove temples (i.e red tiles) if they have a treasure or a leader attached to them.

[@andrewwalsh9849]

Good catch. I noticed they messed it up at 3:26 too.

[@screamingblue7]

At our game table, the phrase we have long used is "Well Played!" but might have to try "A Fine Move" to vary it some.

[@ValkyrieTiara]

Leaving a comment on a three year old review that was called out in a new video? A fine move!

[@mistergone3830]

I don't know that this game is for me. I feel like it might twist my brain into a more non-euclidian formation than usual. However, it is one of my fondest dreams to make a move in a board game and be told that it was, indeed, a fine move.

[@redmenacetv]

But... but... the board is a flat plane.

[@maxbreiling4929]

This game is based around Mesopotamia with a reference to the tigris and Euphrates rivers, and I find it absolutely hilarious how they somehow draw everything back to Italy even calling a ziggurat an ancient Italian monument.

[@nikconlenike7637]

Yeah like wtf

[@rancidkippa4589]

I'm pretty sure they were just taking the piss (I hope anyway)

[@hmocc]

A fine move...

[@Fergit_]

It's fun to look at but I can't imagine playing it. Like volleyball.

[@scottcameron174]

This was both highly entertainment and dutifully informative. (I stumbled across this channel years ago but since the pandemic hit I've been reverse order binge watching all the episodes and it has been top notch)

[@antiussentiment]

All the way though this review i'm thinking "but I already have this game and despite Mayfair's awful edition, I'm still happy to already have this game".. And so I'm feeling satisfied that I have this game and SU&SD approve of it.. THEN YOU SHOW THE EXPANSION BITS N BOBS!!! and I'm immediately torn..

[@Froggy711]

That was really amazing when Quinns was in two places at once in the last skit. How did they do that?

[@bigdream_dreambig]

Teleporter technology.

[@googleisillukinati8071]

Shadow clone jitsu. Duh

[@timothymclean]

There's an old film trick where you set up a stationary camera and film the same area twice, once with the actor in each position, before metaphorically stapling the two takes together. This was very difficult when you had to mess around with physical film to edit anything, but modern video editors make it significantly easier. Yet a fine move it remains!

[@adrianpop4809]

Thanks for the review! It's always nice to see what you come up with when dealing with old masterpieces.

[@alexbourdages3501]

It's been 2 years and I still want rules to future chess 3000...

[@IvanGrimm1]

For a few years Tigris and Euphrates was my favorite game but then my gaming group changed and I can't get it to the table now. At least I have the app to get a game in now and then.

[@d20plusmodifier]

Billy Catastrophe is the funniest thing in the world tonight

[@PetrVojtech]

Posting a new review? A fine move!

[@richardtrouncer3652]

I've played this a fair bit on my mobile Vs the AI and really enjoyed it - they're right about "A fine move". I'm also sure I don't want to play it against competitive humans, possibly any humans, as it does have the potential to be insanely brutal. But it is an beautifully elegant game.

[@SnoopyThe4th]

I have watched so much susd and this is still a hilarious video. These guys...

[@chrislonghurst7249]

From your description it sounds a lot like a fighting video game: best played with people who are almost exactly at your level.

[@TylerDeLisle]

So glad you gave this another shot, this game is mad brilliance and I can't get enough of it.

[@xahpookx]

a truly incredible game design. this was the game from your top 100 BGG series that i was really sad you hadnt tried yet. but hey, here it is :)

[@theautisticguitarist7560]

Okay small correction: the Tigris and Euphrates aren't in Italy, their actually located just north of Madison, Wisconson.

[@thedanishviking88]

Rumor is a new edition is coming out sometime in October or later. Instant buy!

[@donz6211]

Billy!!! What have you done?!! LolZ

[@mattanderson1088]

I, for one, enjoyed the historically accurate red double decker bus passing the battle of fine moves in chess. In all seriousness, an excellent review. I LOVE this game and think it is one of the most unique and brilliant games ever designed but at the same time appreciate it is definitely not for everyone. Wrapping the brain around the scoring, the fact you play a shape and not a color, the internal conflicts vs. the external conflicts.....it is difficult to grasp even though the rules are fairly limited.

[@TiTOWORX]

Shoutout to tape around the barbarian's axe.

[@CharlieCleveland]

Another brilliant review, this time, for one of the true masterpieces of gaming!

[@paulchabot9689]

Quintin the monk saying with joy "very well" makes me laugh with tears ! Nice review guys !

[@Marscow]

Y'all are friggin delightful.

[@blackdaz3]

I am italian and.... never noticed so many italian things showed here in my home country. Matt ad Quinn more italian than the italians.... XD Great video :D

[@maleficmax]

Guys! Yellow and Yangtzee please! Is it better then T&E or should I take classics?

[@whatnopie]

Ah, yes a fine move! Witnessed by the medieval red bus in the background!

[@HerrFinsternis]

Lovely people the Italian; inventing chess and pottery, breeding tigers. Some fine moves indeed.

[@jcat98]

3 years late but you’re getting a like for that “yes”

[@relvar3158]

Went back to watch this after Quinn’s appearance on Dice Tower, number two unique game. Could not agree more, flipping the bird made me laugh out loud, again. What a great game. Thanks again.

[@bloodnumber13]

a fine video.

[@gregoirebucher2376]

And now someone needs to invent the rules for FutureChess 3000 : we have the "board" and we have the bits!!

[@nickhayes1626]

Man this game is one of the most brain burny ones that I’ve ever played and I got completely destroyed but I loved it. Can’t wait to hear your review of Babylonia.

[@Elwirfy]

"But that's a bad score..." -Quins "Yes." -Matt *Existential Despair* -Quins

[@bobbybrad5154]

I died at "traditional Italian monument" lmao

[@verdynius]

I like the Firewatch poster in the background!

[@VincentVonDudler]

14:39 - 'A fine move.'

[@jmoconnell]

I've been watching a large number of your reviews recently. I have subscribed and liked every video I've seen so far! Thank you 3 (and your friends) for your hard, dynamic, and fun work! I suppose I might have missed it, but it didnt seem like you explained WHEN the game ends? That's something you usually cover. You explained who or how you win, but not what actually calls a halt to the experience. Thank you for a reply if you have the time.

[@pyziakkos]

I do have to thank you guys! I got this game after watching your review and it has become our favourite game! That is my wife’s and mine od course! Thank you so much and never stop!

[@Sammathnar]

I like to check back on this review every 4-5 months just to see that yes, new commenters are still managing to miss the obvious italian joke. It is both funny and a little sad.

[@JayChampagne]

And a fine move.

[@hellerup75]

This video is the Dr. Strangelove of boardgame reviews - i can and must review it regularly.

[@GrimLocke161]

I love, what I think was, that ref’ to Rover from the Prisoner.

[@mattrobinson973]

"A Fine Move" should definitely become a running joke, it's the most British surrealist humour thing

[@Yriel129]

The game looks like it's about parallel parking sedans but it's more like a demolition derby with freight trains. I'm a fairly seasoned board gamer and I played this with a friend who is an expert at this and a friend who is very new to board games. I was the player they both ended up taking shots at and my final score was indeed 3 to the winner's 10. In the latter part of the game it became obvious just how dangerous it is to be a move or two behind. It became impossible to move a leader without either of them striking at me. Or so I felt; I was not having the best day then and every fumble felt worse than it probably was.

[@Roxfox]

TINY AIRHORN RETURNS!!!

[@Drager85]

I'm Italian and this is 100% accurate. BELLISSIMO!

[@hmocc]

un bel movimento!

[@sboistan]

best board game ever!!!! I'm glad you guys came around to enjoying this one... that being said, I think the rules explanation made the game mechanics seem pretty obtuse. I think that people might want to look elsewhere for a rules explanation. The first couple of games are very confusing but once you get over the hump it seems very simple in retrospect (especially compared to the huge rulebooks of "modern" boardgames). Another thing that I wished you guys had touched on is the endless variability of the game... it's a completely different game every time you play (even if you choose the same starting positions), because of the way the tiles come out of the bag, the hidden information held by other players, etc etc...

[@Georgesbarsukov]

Lol, they got me with their joke about tigers and pots. I knew Tigris and Euphrates sounded familiar and the rivers in the game were enough to remind me that they're actually rivers haha.

[@Georgesbarsukov]

But for a moment I believed them

[@andizzle195]

I am super jealous of your Firewatch poster, I loved that game and those posters are gorgeous!

[@Lexicondiablo]

This is a game that took me several plays to experience and appreciate its inherent weakness. The lottery of the tile draw is a factor that you can do nothing to adjust. In one game I drew 3 red tiles in the entire game. I was royally screwed and for 90 minutes was just thumped stupid with no means to retaliate. Most games will have a pivotal swing where a shortage of a specific colour will ruin a players game plan and chances of winning. Telling me that this evens out with multiple plays does not excuse the heavy injection of luck.

[@geraldgerund]

Usually I try to compensate the lack of a certain tile color (for me, it seems to be green usually) by building monuments that can give me points in that color. Also, you can always start a war and try to detach opposing red leaders in other ways. Treasures help too... It is tricky, and it is a game with some luck involved (unlike, e.g., Caylus), but I think that the tile draw is what pushes players to figure out cunning strategies instead of simply placing a tile and collecting a point with every action.

[@Lexicondiablo]

But you can't build a monument with 3 tiles!! Not forgetting that you won't be able to defend a colour monument if attacked in that colour.

[@geraldgerund]

Each monument gives points in 2 colors; I use 4 tiles of a color I have in abundance, build a monument that gives points in my "weak" color as well, and sneak in my leader to collect them. The only big problem is if you're weak in red and another player comes in with their leader starting a revolt; reclaiming the monument would mean waging a war in a different color, which can be tricky depending on where the tiles are. :)

[@Steve_Mazza]

This is a good and insightful comment, but I feel like there are enough compensating mechanisms that minimize the damage of bad draws. (Ok, maybe not if you get a total lack of red tiles, or if you draw 6 blue tiles in a row.) You can build a monument with your dominant color and get points for the second color on that monument. Or you can use your catastrophe tile as part of a 2-move tactic to steal a city or monument in the color you are weak in. Or start a well-planned war and choose which leaders fight first, in order to break up a city in the way you want. Then move in and take over with your weakest leader. The sequel, Yellow & Yangtze, does help to address this problem of bad tile draws by letting you choose from an open assortment whenever you play a green tile.

[@janbischoff-6200]

Just got the old German Version today in a 2nd Hand Store for 6,50 €. Am excited to play my first "fine Move"

[@anathardayaldar]

Allllllllright, I'll be THAT guy. Google etymology says: Tigris : fast as an arrow Euphretes: good crossing across a river

[@anonleft]

You know, thanks to this silly review we still call it Tigers and Pots JFC

[@quichenovel]

Funniest SU&SD in recent memory.

[@benearle271]

I love traditional Italian tigers! I’m in.

[@NikolajLepka]

Peasant Excellence: A Fine Move

[@alexhartan]

5:29, Quinns barely holding his laughter

[@darkenwarrior]

a fine move

[@AhJong0]

Superb review, classic example of giving a feel of the game without plowing through all the rules tediously. Also, very funny.

[@Murrangurk2]

Jesus I was not ready for that upskirt

[@itsAVtime]

Those plastic leader tokens look kinda janky compared to the original wooden disc versions =\ Great game, great review!

[@manos2495]

Have you tried Yellow and Yangtze? If yes which of the two would you suggest? Thank you!

[@Steve_Mazza]

They are both good. I would say the major difference is that the logic of combat is different in Y&Y because the red leader controls a city's army, and the army's strength decides which city (including *all* of its leaders) wins. In T&E, the different leaders fight individually. Also, in Y&Y, monuments (pagodas) can be made obsolete by new monuments elsewhere, whereas in T&E they remain and become centers of conflict. And in Y&Y, you basically have unlimited catastrophe tiles (but with a resource cost), whereas T&E gives you only two. So the games do feel different, even though they are very similar otherwise. I feel like Y&Y is a bit more realistic, whereas T&E is more abstract. I like them both, but I think I slightly prefer T&E. If you can't get T&E but can get Y&Y, you are not missing out on too much.

[@MarkBrowning]

The only thing I remember from the Ra review was the abundant and persistent eyeshadow...

[@helxis]

If only it were still available for purchase.

[@Alluvian567]

Too bad, you can't get even the new version most places anymore. Seems like they didn't make enough? I'm a sad panda, my wife surprisingly took a shine to this one in the review!

[@laurentst-denis3839]

It's still available on the publisher's website. Of course, that means shipping fees apply. www.zmangames.com/en/games/euro-classics/ I've also seen it last week at Le Valet d'Coeur in Montreal. Not sure when their copies arrived. It might have been shipped long ago and left unsold.

[@ruff5482]

Best game I've ever played, and I just bought a copy of the 2007 Revised edition with the wooden pieces!

[@AyyyyyyyyyLmao]

Cannot wait for the Annulled Good-Time Summer Tile Layerd Reinerstravaganza 2020... I'll settle for a Good-Time Summer though.

[@zeepier33]

00:26 I'd almost say Quinns listens to Drive to Work by Mark Rosewater..

[@SapphireCrook]

The ending search bar should've had a joke about 'a fine move'. That would've been a fine move. Most fine. And, certainly, a move.

[@chronatoginfinite]

ahh yes, a fine move

[@Yaherbolo]

Might have to snag that one. When is the next Cool Ghosts video coming?

[@kosterix123]

what's up with all that italian referencing? The game is German. 4:40 you first resolve the war then assign treasures to the remaining merchant. 13:30 it is called group dynamics. You never know what will pop up. Hansa Teutonica has the same phenomenon. Games like Puerto Rico have very little of it. Powergrid... sometimes.

[@perspicacioussimpleton7288]

IT'S FINALLY COMING BACK THIS OCTOBER :D

[@dfernand101]

Are Eu fraternizing with bad Tiger puns ? 0:56

[@guilbo11]

I can't find the game anywhere (at canadian distributors) :(

[@19263411]

Will you ever review Yellow and Yangtze? I was just about to buy Y&Y, but after watching this video it just feel like T&E might fit my taste better. However I really want to know as a T&E lover, how will you rate Y&Y?

[@preach2dastreets]

Hey, quick question: I'm a high school teacher who teaches Ancient History... Do you feel that the themes covered in this game are relevant to actual history? For instance, does the game really feel like you are establishing city states in ancient Mesopotamia? Or is it just a setting for a neat game mechanic?

[@WestKatoHardcore]

It definitely doesn't feel that way! This is a game with tiles and bits of plastic and some pictures, which all gesture vaguely in the direction of some kind of ancient Mesopotamia theme. I hope you asked this question well in advance of the topic on your syllabus, and that the last nine months waiting for this answer have been enjoyable.

[@michaelm8265]

It's a nice theme that can be connected to actual things we think we know about Ancient Mesopotamia, but only after the fact; it doesn't really cover actual history nor does it help explain or help with intuition regarding that history. It's a fun idea, but especially for a high school class, I would expect you to loose too much time on knowledge of the actual game before being able to tie into knowledge about the setting, sadly.

[@mattynigma]

Richard Hammond wants his personality back

[@riochang9346]

Great review for a great game. I regularly play this game on the mobile app which is also excellent.

[@frankharr9466]

I'd like to see this on Table Top (if it ever comes back) because I'd like to see this in play.

[@dionisisstefanitsis6497]

Excellent video as always! One question: In the pile behind I see the box of Guards of Atlantis. Have you played it? It's an excellent game that is very underrated. I think you will enjoy it since you have a video game background.