The Problem With Widowmaker

[@raptordaraptor7861]

I really just hate being one-shot from across the map and forced to play hyper mobile characters to counter widow. I completely understand that she's not objectively OP and removing her one-shot would completely destroy her character identity. However, I hate her and think the game would be better without her.

[@Kajor1]

might be the first youtube comment i done ever seen in half a decade that actually has an ounce of nuance

[@Rose-85]

@@Kajor1 i have a similar sentiment except i already play mobile heroes, but sometimes it's just really hard to deal with her even then i do genuinely feel that a hero like her shouldn't have existed in the first place due to the lack of interactivity paired with ease of use, by just existing, most of the time she just rules the lobby and the area she covers, although i do understand that to remove the one shot it would require her to be turned into pretty much an entirely new character since the one shot is basically 90% of her kit

[@6torthor]

and even then, as a mobile FDPS main, I hate having to completely change my playstyle and play like a pussy because the enemy picked Widow

[@brycenb2994]

Fustrsting to play against doesn’t necessarily equate to a good or even op character

[@brodiethebuilder8496]

Bring back doomfist damage to one shot her

[@thiefpotato2759]

I feel like people who say she needs a laser sight are missing the point. It doesn't matter if she has a laser point cuz most of the time, you know where she is. She can one-shot so quickly that she needs someone to constantly harasse or kill her for her to not have value. She needs someone to perpetually bully her for her to be dealt with.

[@SocialExperiment232]

@@thiefpotato2759 thats the same with every character when the player is popping off with them. Junk rat is butt but if you play into one of those junkrat mains that can somehow hold a whole lobby hostage. It takes the whole team coordinating an attack just to kill the one player. Because it is the player that is the problem not the character. Same with widow. If she was so broken she would have an insanely high winrate but she doesn’t because she isn’t good unless the player has pretty much perfect aim and solid positioning and be willing to deal with constantly being targeted, span camped, and insulted.

[@artmanrom]

@@SocialExperiment232 That's not the point, she's unbalanced for this kind of game, because every character should have a 50% - 50% chance to win a fight against another, which is impossible against Widowmaker who just one-shot most of the heroes from miles and miles away.

[@SocialExperiment232]

@ you’re acting like all widows have 100% accuracy. Even the pros only have like 20% accuracy for headshots. You’re not getting one shot as much as you’re complaining about. Calm down. And there’s tons of high mobility characters that make it really hard for widow to get them and a simple monkey or dva will take her down in a second. There are multiple strategies to this, stop crying.

[@GingeryGinger]

@@SocialExperiment232the difference is how easy widow actually is. Take it from someone who sucks balls at video games, widow is piss easy even for me.

[@SocialExperiment232]

@ oh really? What rank are you? If you’re not champion on her then she’s not very easy is she? Like I said, even the pros only have at most 20% hs accuracy for headshots. Y’all are being dramatic and confusing annoying for broken. If she was so broken her win rates would reflect that but they don’t because she isn’t. She isn’t even the most picked dps because there are multiple situations where running widow isn’t viable and you have to swap to soemthing more flexible.

[@vatarants]

Once you nerf her best counter, She runs free. No sombra, Good widow has almost no hard counter. Winston, Genji, Tracer, Diva are NOT her hard counter because they can't magically appear behind enemy line like sombra could do. And they will lose a lot of resoure, cooldown and effort to get to Widow if Widow positions herself correctly and have someone pocketing or protecting her. If you nerf perma invis, you NEED to nerf widow's effective range too at very least.

[@RayJames-mk3yq]

The easiest way to nerf widow is to just keep reducing her HP. She doesn't need a laser sight, or a removed 1 shot, just reduce her HP until she can't survive a dive without full team peel. Then widow will only work if she's completely uncountered. and she deserves to work there. It's extremely simple.

[@BhopVauv]

She is already the most vulnerable hero in the game

[@klinxium8627]

@@BhopVauvshe can literally one shot at any range how is she the most vulnerable

[@mihailoivkovic7190]

​@@klinxium8627he meant that if you get close to her she is already very vulnerable with current hp and easily killable, the problem can be getting to her on certain maps

[@hellmaker3]

I completely disagree. At lower levels, sure, but at higher levels, shes, best case, going to have a support near her. Worst case, she has a brig on her ass 24/7 like shes ana. Meaning she isnt vulnerable and youre taking a 1v2 if you try to approach her.

[@lev1eye628]

I honestly thought Widowmaker’s issue was that she was so forgiving when she misses a shot, she could immediately push out another. So one thing I would probably do is similar to fortnite, buff her ammo to 40, but when she uses a sniper shot, it uses all ammo so she has to reload again, that way there is an open window for some dive heroes to make distance while she is reloading.

[@slimemonster0381]

Just wild that hanzo one shot was so problematic that even when they gave it back to him he now draws more slowly and has season 8 projectile size, meanwhile widow still has a bigger projectile size than before even after its initial nerf and has otherwise received no other changes

[@elodropper1469]

be careful what you wish for , one slight nerf had hanzo completly unplayable you cant nerf skill and if thats the trend we are headed to by nerfing skill based heroes to the ground then idk what to tell you.

[@slimemonster0381]

@@elodropper1469 I think there are plenty of extremely high skill heroes that are way less unfun than widow. It just feels awful that if the other team has a good widow I have to mirror. Like Kajor said in the video it just feels like counterplay options are very low

[@kadajnoir7369]

It's called "how many mythic skins can we sell?"

[@Какой-тоНоунейм-б5ж]

Finally, someone who noticed it

[@GingeryGinger]

@@elodropper1469Hanzo and Widow do not take skill. Ashe takes more brain cells than the both combined just because her main gun was actually designed well. Sure, widow isn’t the same level of brain dead as someone like Orisa… in that at least the Orisa player has to use their cool-downs and position to get good value whereas widow requires JUST aim, thus making her the least skilful character by default.

[@KOERZION]

I think widowmaker is overpowered in the current state of the game. It’s not so much just that oneshots are usually seen as unhealthy, it’s more so that most of the dps is just much weaker than they were in the beginning of OW2. Widowmaker has only gotten the falloff nerf which didn’t really matter too much.

[@possumwithacowboyhat5140]

Hard disagree. Widow as a concept doesn’t fit in 5v5. Especially on maps that were designed for 6v6 and built literally around her sight lines. She functionally operates without cooldowns, in a game about managing cooldowns. She can kill an entire team in a moment flat, because someone looked away for a half moment. She can take unfair high ground positions where she physically cannot be touched as she will still have cover, like some of the cheese spots on junkertown or Kings row. She currently has NO reliable counter, besides herself. This is aggressively bad game design on a fundamental level. Widowmaker is ridiculously broken and until she is either fully removed or reworked, she will continue to dominate full matches with no contest.

[@Kajor1]

tell me you don't pay attention to pro play without telling me you don't pay attention to pro play

[@possumwithacowboyhat5140]

@ you mean less than 2.5% of the entire player base? Is that really the argument you wanna go with? Pro players very literally no life the game, of course they are going to 15 tools to deal with a widow. The average player does not have the same experience. As the literal top 4000 players in the game. Opinion fully discarded, awful take.

[@twirlycomet389]

I kinda relate her to tracer almost bc of her pick potential I feel like if they set her hp to 175 like tracer it makes it more balanced

[@dbear7717]

​@@possumwithacowboyhat5140I'm a reaper main in qp and I've never had trouble dealing with widow. 5v5 is about counter play

[@deadpaul6587]

You know what's funny? I could say most of this about fucking junkrat tire as well. You telling me junk ult is overpowered and broken?

[@TR-ju5re]

Slow down the charge rate on her shot or make 100% do 250 dmg. Compensatory buff elsewhere in her kit and boom. Instantly more healthy. No means perfect but if character identity matters more than gameplay it is still a good step to appease both sides.

[@jetstream_scam8093]

I definitely agree with this one. I also think flinch would be a nice addition, would allow a lot more heroes to initiate some sort of counterplay

[@senseiitanaks]

this thing of "conserving the hero identity" is bs to me, they completely changed doomfist, sombra, symmetra, torb, mercy, orisa, even mccree. they all play completely differently to how they used to but all of the sudden when its widows time to change then its a problem

[@flowerly-m5y]

u delusional, where the fck they COMPLETELY changed? cree - nade rework and its actually nearly the same, mercy - where is this completely different changes? no rez on ulti - thats all? LOL

[@deadpaul6587]

First of all this is not only an argument used for widow, I've heard it countless times for a variety of heroes. Secondly, most of the characters u named retained their hero identity even after changes. Mercy is still a flying rat that does no personal damage and can res teammates, torb torb and sym still have their turrets/teleporter. Yes their playstyles change, but the core identity of the hero is still there. Cass is still the old cass even without stun grenade, because that was never part of his identity. His identity is being a stereotypical western gunslinger type of character, and that essence has been maintained. If they update the game tomorrow and suddenly he's shooting rockets and has a jetpack, then yeah, his hero identity has been lost.

[@deadpaul6587]

If you remove widows one shot and make her an shorter range character, she will no longer be a sniper. Being a sniper is literally her entire persona. All of her voice lines and lore is about being a cold blooded killer who strikes from afar. "One shot, one kill" "No one can hide from my sights" . If she loses her one shot she loses everything her character is designed around. Thank you for coming to my ted talk

[@senseiitanaks]

@@deadpaul6587 since hero identity is largely determined by voicelines, then what does "one punch is all i need" from doomfist mean to you?. Mccrees gameplay and counterplay revolved mainly around his stun, even reins would play differently in the presence of a mccree, now his "stun" is just extra damage in most situations. You are arbitrarily choosing what characteristics pertain to each heroes identity. I can just as easily say mccrees identity is being the westerner that stops people dead in their tracks and not slightly slows them down. you are not being fair to the other characters by excluding widow from the same potential changes they received

[@deadpaul6587]

@@senseiitanaks Im not arbitrarily choosing characteristics. Im mentioning the ones that stand out to me. What either of us perceive as the identity of a hero is subjective. If in your mind mccree has always been the stun character then ok.I think to most people, and to the actually designer, the little stun he has on a 10 sec cd probably wasn't the core of his character. Also by removing the stun, a certain playstyle has been removed, but he's still a mid range hero with high burst potential, fairly low mobility. He is still a hitscan and fulfils the same role. So in my opinion, his hero identity has mostly been preserved. As an example that seems fairly comparable to me, what do you think of juno's right click? The little tracking orbs. If they got removed tomorrow, do you think a core part of her identity would be lost? I don't believe so, and I feel about the same about stun grenade. Her identity is being a silly flying support with a big head who heals and provides buffs. The little homing orbs just accompany this. As for dooms voice line honestly I didn't play nor watch the game when he released so idk what dps doom was like. Maybe he lost part of his identity and he likely did, given that he changed from dps to tank.

[@elijah7723]

Also, she's just really unfun to play against

[@charKT-7461]

and to play with! if your Widow is rolling, you don’t get to do anything

[@superduper4696]

Widow needs a visible laser sight that shows enemies where she is looking. The main issue with widow is that there is no counterplay until you know where she is, at which point she can kill u the second u find her. A laser sight would allow her to keep her identity of the one-shot sniper without being so uninteractive.

[@brycenb2994]

That’s fine. But people would still complain. 90% of the complaints are “I don’t like getting one shot” not I can’t see where she is.

[@superduper4696]

@@brycenb2994 they don't know why they hate getting one shot.

[@SocialExperiment232]

@@superduper4696 the second your character sees the sniper they call it out. Even if you yourself don’t see them your character will say something like “they have a sniper” at which point you absolutely have enough time to react. She has loud ahh shots that need to be charged. The only problem with widow is the narrative and mob mentality around her.

[@warbananas6858]

I love widow, lol. I've been playing her for years, so I am very much enjoying overwatch right now.

[@sunsinger970]

No. That's so generic.

[@tamakona113]

I think the fact that she basically functions without cooldowns, in a game all about cooldowns, is also part of the issue. I think we could try implementing a cooldown mechanic on her sniping, say, scoping makes you go into focus mode, which is ended by firing a shot, unscoping, or after 6 seconds has passed. The next shot fired after entering focus mode is the oneshot, then it goes on a 12 second cooldown. Entering focus mode also makes her yell a voiceline at the entire enemy team. this way we bring her in line with the rest of the cast, add counterplay windows where enemies can move in and punish her if she messes up, without removing her sniper oneshot identity or having to buff annoying flankers.

[@obamna225]

The problem is pretty simple, Overwatch is a resource based game, oneshots ignore resources like space and healing and other forms of utility, oneshots aren't fun and don't belong in overwatch. It will never be acceptable to be one shot in Overwatch, it will always be cringe because it directly violates core concepts to the game. Something like rein pin is only a little cringe because it ignores your teams healing but it still interacts with space and the reins teams healing.

[@charKT-7461]

playing against a good Widowmaker, especially on sniper-favoring maps, is the worst gaming experience in my life

[@ZeroKami86]

Ya'll thought you hated Sombra, now you miss her.

[@Torpedophile-k9e]

We don't miss her. We want Widow reworked too. Both are (and were) toxic for the game.

[@elodropper1469]

@@Torpedophile-k9e why are skill characters getting nerfed to the ground, if ur postioning is awful ofcourse youll get picked , not to mention not everyone can pick widow and dominate a lobby it actually takes skill.

[@whytfdraketrynarizzup21]

⁠@@elodropper1469 If you’re calling widow skillful then I don’t know what to say. Point and click simulator. Hitscan junkies already think it’s the epitome of skill expression. It won’t take long for someone to get good at Widow cuz all you need to do is aim.😭🙏🏿

[@Agitatedform]

​@@elodropper1469 Widow is not a skill based character. She requires at most basic aiming. She doesn't have to position properly, cycle cooldowns, engage on the frontline, etc. She sits in the back line aims down main and fires. That's it. Other one shots, like Hanzo for example, have to actually execute in some fashion to get the one shot. Hanzo is also projectile which is infinitely harder due to travel time and fall off. There is a reason people who play widow are suddenly terrible the minute they jump onto a different character.

[@Narcan42]

Nobody misses Sombra lol foh

[@michals1108]

One hero which completely changes play style for everyone when appears in the match , same for sombra

[@charKT-7461]

both are just poorly designed heroes that do no good for the game lol

[@aSuperPi.]

9:15 I saw a cool idea to make Widow's gun like Zenyatta alt fire so you can't just hold an angle infinitely.

[@neodaltiair8624]

Glint or laser or something please

[@placidflunky6642]

I think its really just the inability to react to her being on the angle, if you see a hanzo on the angle you can just unpeek it, the only way hanzo can kill you without you being able to react is the corner is sonic'd or he just read your peek timing (in which case you got outplayed, so fair play), if you peek the corner and you see widow your already dead unless you have an invulnerability cooldown or widow misses, you don't really have any agency, you can be very dependant on your tank pinging her and monitoring her rotations.

[@justdavelewis]

So for context, I’m in gold and on console so Widows aren’t hugely bad for me, it makes the games a bit less fun of course BUT it forces you to think a lot more about where you stand (I play Ana mostly) and I think that’s a good think on the whole. It’s actually solves that’s my biggest counter and the least fun to play against… I had a game where I must have been hacked about 10 times, like once a minute, it was awful. Sombra shouldn’t exist as is imo. That being said, getting 1 shot is never fun. There could be a few ways to tackle it 1) reduce the damage per headshot to maybe 200 or 175damage - enough to kill a tracer in 1 still and anyone who has been damaged If a squishy is discorded they’d still be 1 shot, I don’t think people would have a problem with that. You could then rework her ult so that her bullets do like 400/500 damage or something for a brief window… Another option is to keep the one shot but have here have damage fall off - but then are you just making another Ashe?? It’s a tough one… we might have ti nerf Genji

[@echomain-gm9nr]

Usually, I can't even see her on my screen, she is so far away that its a few pixels, and she only peeks for a second. If widow can one shot me, I must be able to one shot widow, widow should die to any headshot, regardless of range, then its fair. If a cassidy headshot her from 1000meters away and its 5 hp damage, she should die.

[@carlospena4387]

cope

[@klinxium8627]

@@carlospena4387bro u are fighting so hard for widow in these comments calm down

[@latrelldub]

a few ideas that could nerf widow but keep the 1-shot identity: - give the gun idle sway (like in call of duty) - make widow flinch if she gets shot (also like cod) - loses accuracy when moving (like csgo and valorant) - one shot uses a whole magazine requiring a reload (like fortnite)

[@itsali654]

I would say revert her bullet size to pre season 8 and reduce her hp down to 175 hp or the passive where you auto heal it takes longer on her in particular cause she can take chip damage and stay in the same position without forcing her supports to heal her or nerf her ranger from 60 meters to 47 meters

[@ryanager8029]

Widow’s biggest issue is that she has no downtime between those shots. By the time she appears and oneshots someone, by the time you realise where the shot came from, she’s fully charged and ready to oneshot anyone that challenges her, while the challenger has to land multiple shots on her still, or she can get a second oneshot so even if she goes down she traded 2-1. She needs a greater trade-off for her ability to oneshot. Her being able to hitscan oneshot is a COLOSSAL swing for her team, she shouldn’t be able to fire another potential oneshot anywhere near as quickly afterwards, since she already just gave a massive spike of value potentially. We’ve all seen clips of server admin widows getting 2 oneshots on a single grapple. Why is she able to fire and recharge the next shot that fast? If anything, slowing her down actually raises the required skill for her, by making it so she has to use her other tools like SMG, venom mine and grapple to fend for herself more often.

[@jetstream_scam8093]

Why don't they just add flinch to widow when she is scoped? It would allow the vast majority of heroes to initiate counterplay (dominantly rapid fire heros) but doesn't destroy widows' identity as a character. That and/or possibly reduce the time it takes for her to get enough charge to one shot when aiming down sights.

[@bentocod]

Shed be useless

[@jetstream_scam8093]

@bentocod at least explain yourself. I'd disagree as she'd still have a consistent low risk one shot kill.

[@latrelldub]

i agree, as for other shooter games like cod, fortnite, apex, you flinch when you get shot (which heavily impacts sniping) so this game it could be good. i still think how she completely ignores cooldowns in a cooldown based game is a problem tho, but this could be a good change

[@lev1eye628]

I honestly thought Widowmaker’s issue was that she was so forgiving when she misses a shot, she could immediately push out another. So one thing I would probably do is similar to fortnite, buff her ammo to 40, but when she uses a sniper shot, it uses all ammo so she has to reload again, that way there is an open window for some dive heroes to make distance while she is reloading.

[@latrelldub]

oh my god i just commented this and then scrolled to see this lmao

[@VALY-zm2tk]

Ashe is basically what widow shoudlve been from the start. A shot so powerful it forces you disengage immediately, but doesnt straight up kill you

[@eugenefreerun3694]

Before Cass damage falloff was nerfed, i had no problems to deal with this purple little spider, i just 2 tapped her and thats it.. but yeah my man now cant kill sht

[@6torthor]

🥱at least for ranked, the sombra rework couldn't have possibly come at a better time with the Widow mythic too lmao

[@kippbleu8289]

I hope the OW2 community keeps complaining about Widowmaker one-shots so she gets nerf. She's the new “annoying” Sombra. Lol

[@nikiplayzzz4623]

Not carti catching a stray dawg

[@Iron-Blurr]

SHE IS OP! The widow doesn't need to be very good. Simply the threat of her POTENTIALLY hitting shots forces the enemy team to play differently and adjust to her presence. What other hero does that? Old hog hook??

[@Anonymous-rc7kq]

The mere fact that one hero forces a team to change their entire comp is a problem in itself A widow can go negative and still contribute massively to her team cause of her presence

[@Moonslayer01]

You can go ball or Winston, but the issue is that they can get countered, unlike widow who doesn't have one

[@Koviches]

I always wondered why Echo and Venture aren't considered a Widow counter? I've always seen them as a "dive characters with decent mobility"?

[@joe727]

I think a laser is pretty useless. The issue imo isn't that you don't know where she is, it's that she can kill you no matter what. And in a game like overwatch a laser isn't that much of a downside. In a game like r6 where every fight is close quarters and ping is super important, that small time where you're holding an angle and an enemy peaks the angle your holding and you have to drag your curser to their head could get you killed. In overwatch, because the widow is so far back and nobody can reliable one shot her, she can just hold her crosshair up against a wall or nearby object and nobody would know she there. Fuck even in r6 laser is still the go to attachment, even with this downside i just mentioned. IMO after every scoped shot, her grapple should go on a 4 second cooldown. This would make her think about shooting because if she shoots a winston for example, he could dive her and kill her before she can grapple away. or make it so widow has sway on her gun, but she can't hold her breath, making her shots not as accurate as they could be. the sway would probably feel like shit but if we don't want to take away the one shot, then more meaningful changes need to be made, because this isn't just an overwatch issue, but every hero shooter. I don't give a single fuck which one it is, the sniper character is always broken, and every game with a sniper mechanic, will forever struggle to balance that character. If the only skill you need for widow is point and click, that's just fucking aiming your gun. there's no skill in just aiming your gun. just go to the practice range or use aimlabs if your struggling that much. theres no interaction in just turning the corner and instantly dying from 50 fucking meters away. half the time winston can't even jump to a widowmaker reliably because she's so far away and if he does get close to her, she just grapples away. why do you think random crits are so unbalanced in tf2. because anyone if their lucky can just turn a corner or turn around and instantly kill someone. fundamentaly, it's just not a fun mechanic to die to something you couldn't control or fight back with. just like old sombra, which is why i think she's unhealthy, she forces every single person on the team to play differently. it's like playing as pharah and they swap double hitscan. you now have to play the game differently and you'll notice your stats go down. you do less damage than if you could just fly around. widowmaker does that vs every single character, even the 1v1 matchup, she fundamentaly changes the way the entire team plays, just by existing. it's not a healthy mechanic

[@kreosootti]

What I cannot comprehend is the insane rise in skill level Widow players are showing. Like sure, the skill level of all players has steadily increased since OW1, but Widow player are literally killing it in OW2. Most Widows are now on a level that would put OW1 Widow pros to shame.

[@pphaver871]

Chipsa was right the whole time. Widow was only being gatekept by Sojourn and Sombra being better or being able to contest her. Both are nerfed, and now her OP powers can shine

[@rhythecreator]

My goat

[@damianoguglielmino8968]

It's always been a fact that, if you have or are a good widowmaker, you can often control the game, cause she can take a huge amount of space from the enemy team, almost like sombra pre-rework, when she could litteraly go across every map in 15 seconds, without been seen or heard, and she could kill every isolated healer or dps (except for reaper and mei) without problems and before they could even realize that. She deserved to be nerfed cause of that and beacouse she had no a counter, but widowmaker can be easily one clipped by tracer, genji, reaper, even the actual sombra, and all the dive tanks. So yeah, she could be easily counterd in many way lucky (except in circuy royal, there she is a huge problem, but is still a map problem, not a champ problem).

[@KojiroNoGanryu]

An April Fool's patch had a clever solution. Made her shots a quick damage over time. Still oneshot, but quick support could save you.

[@aerostrafe1075]

Its still wild that there is a sniper with her kind of instant impact when she lands the shot yet no way to know her location. I've seen snipers in other games with less power that still have tells to their location. My go to example always being Vantage in Apex Legends since her ult is a very dangerous sniper rifle that can two tap you as well as cause you to take increased damage from her squad if she hit you. The trade off being the big orange laser that gives away her position. You have to respect it but you are at least made aware of her presence before the first shot. Remove her laser and buff her damage then you have widowmaker.

[@wswann34]

Lol crazy how the sombra nerf created a ripple effect across the whole of ow2. Widow was only a high rank pick but now she is picked at all ranks and dominating

[@yinx9]

Make 25% of her damage damage over time. When you get hit, your support (who needs to be paying attention) has some time to react. Still technically a one-shot, but with a chance to survive.

[@latrelldub]

so like a poison shot, that might actually be a good idea

[@tomgorey9294]

Saying widow is op is stupid, she relies on player skill, an amazing ball player can also run tbe lobby, do we need to nerf him to the ground ? (Obv not)

[@OpalBerries]

The most annoying thing is when you go for the rush comp against widow, and the enemy wid tells you to get off her d*ck. Like, the only form of counter play if we don't have a better widow. Like they just want us to be a fish in a barrel for them.

[@333Abs]

I just don’t know how they fix this character since her design is fundamentally unfun. I’d like to see them try a MINIMUM damage range. E.g the further away you are the more damage she does. This makes her more niche and map specific and adds new counterplays.

[@latrelldub]

the problem is she already sits too damn far away so nobody can reach her. this would incentivize such gameplay even more

[@no_name6540]

I think widows charge time shoulf be increased or under 10 metres her headshot multiplier should be 1.5 so its 180 headshot damage then go back to 3.0 past 10 metres

[@artimist0315]

Yeah the problem with her is that in 8 years of overwatch they never tried to change her and make her something more than your stereotypical sniper. While I don't think she needs her one shot to be removed, I'd like it to take a sizeable step back to give her something else to do than sniping. Change venom mine to not be the worst ability in the game, play around with grapple, just give her kit more depth while still keeping her long ranger fragile identity

[@viooni7378]

The problem with Widow is that they gutted all other DPSes(especially hitscans) except her

[@burtonthegrape9217]

People keep using "Identity" as an excuse to not change a character, she's to oppressive and Blizzard are to scared of a few players whining about a change

[@rexoverwatch]

no hero limits is the natural nerf to widow, you can literaly pick 5 tanks

[@Shellw2]

I genuinely stopped playing after Widow start to reign supreme. There is something very wrong that a character you can’t interact with has the potential for instant death. That kind of lethality is inherently flawed and not to mention, very unfun to play against. Something needs to happen, and quick. We’ve had other unfun metas, Orisa, Mauga… Even DVA meta, but ATLEAST I had the possibility to PLAY the game. You genuinely can’t play the game when Widow just wipes your entire team and there’s little you can do to help them. Just awful.

[@crystaleater2581]

Tbh they should give her scope like some shake if she is getting hit by players across the map making it harder for her to aim meaning that the other dps now have a way to close the gap a lot more easier

[@latrelldub]

so, flinch

[@crystaleater2581]

@latrelldub yeah

[@lilm0nix3]

the character herself isn't broken; the balancing in this game is.

[@jrodd13]

ChipSa was right all along. 😂

[@Or1gami_]

I think a good widow rework would be a laser plus when she scopes in her charge stays at zero until she activates it and she can only hold max charge for 2 seconds before she's forced to fire. Kinda like Sym secondary.

[@monkeymode5652]

the problem is when you counter widow, just a single counterpick isnt going to do anything. If you get a winston, you will need at least one dps to keep up with him. Sometimes even two. And after that the widow switches to hanzo and you are all round fucked. If you need to swap an entire comp just to counter one enemy hero, that is some garbage gameplay design

[@mattevans4377]

Widow would be fine doing 250 dmg headshots, while opening up some more options, that can tank the one shot

[@GoldenKing456]

i dont main widow but i feel like people just dont know how to avoid a sniper and are just stupid, widow is a sniper role meaning she is supposed to one shot dps/support. But even if i do say that people will find some reason to say widow is broken when most of the roster can bully her, ashe,tracer, lucio,kiriko,winston, soldier, genji, any tank, and most of the dps's

[@strangereligion4373]

Just revert the Sombra changes

[@PandaVsGames]

Widow has been oppressive since day 1 of ow1. Along with hanzo when they can one shot. It just doesnt fit into the type of game ow is. Idk about lazer sight but instead of 1 shots maybe some kind of marked for death mechanic or a huge additional amount of damage as dot so the headshot player must have constant heals for like 10s to not die, effectively taking them out the fight. Or smth. The increase in snipers in pvp games are probably also down to as people become more experienced with a game, map knowledge etc, then you can completely exploit that and just dump all further skill into aim. Especially because of map layouts becoming larger and larger. To map balance snipers you must make any sight lines 1 winton jump away and also accessible by 2 flank routes because 1 can just be venom mined.

[@IceWolve67]

I hate beeing killed by a dumbrat spamming grenade just as much as a widowmaker headshot

[@possumwithacowboyhat5140]

I literally told people this would happen this season.

[@NBASFAN]

Honestly, Blizzard heard you complain and removed Sombra perma invis. Now you guys whine about Widow players. When will it end. As soon as you nerf Widow, people are going to say Ashe and Mercy pocket 1shot is too strong. But one thing I do agree is the projectile size on widows sniper is way to big and easy to randomly headshot a moving target. I'm by no means in t500, I'm in high Masters low Gm, but some games I do hit headshots too easily and randomly, that should not happen for a precision based hero.

[@musicxxa6678]

this video overlook the core issue of widow. the hero is just not fun and fundamentally broken in a game like overwatch. this video focused on her strength. hero like widow needs to be veeeeery niche but devs seems to be obsessed with her. there are probably a lot of horny whales buying skins for her.

[@EvilXero359]

Here's a thought, remove hitscan and call it good

[@mattgod6960]

It’s pretty much cod with no counters

[@its_lucky252]

pickrate actually matters a lot with widow because she ruins the game by existing on either team

[@Aon_Duine]

Why is it hard to mark Widow with DVa? Also, Venture is amazing against her, and no one is talking about that

[@PunchM3]

That’s not true at all as anyone could ping the venture heading towards the widow and the widow could simply just get away while still being able to apply pressure to the enemy team compared to the venture. Not to mention the ability for other players to peal for the widow player is also a thing.

[@Aon_Duine]

@PunchM3 that same thing happens with tracer and Genji. Blink and dash make even way more noise than burrow. Plus it is way easier to spot them going around than seeing a pile of dirt moving around. Oh, and venture has the verticality that Tracer lacks, it takes a longer time for tracer to get to Widow, than Venture. Peeling can be done against any of them, doesn't matter if it's reaper, venture, tracer, or Genji. So I don't know what you were trying to say with that argument 🤷‍♀️

[@daedra6993]

I think people just have to adjust she's only 200 hp after all personally as a pharah player i enjoy 2 tapping her😂

[@actuallynotsteve]

The irony of this video is that the widow gameplay footage is basically nothing but Widowmaker whiffing shots and getting killed shooting a Ball player

[@Enigma-u5k]

The threat of the oneshot changes the whole enemy team’s play style by itself

[@actuallynotsteve]

@Enigma-u5k true DPS player 5d chess, you love to see it

[@immortalolive3576]

Why not take a page out of TF2 and look at sniper and how he's balanced?

[@exo-t07]

6:55 why you showing the cancer arc 😭😭😭

[@ksh9037]

Just nerf her bullet size. She'll be balanced again. Look at hanzo

[@МистерИ-ю8л]

Blizzard: we decided to sell mythic on Mauga, what should we do? --let's rework Ana, Mauga will become meta. As it happened in season 13 with the Widow. Blizzard: give him a promotion! P.S Well, it seems that the balance in this season is worse than in season 8?

[@SocialExperiment232]

The balance is fine. Y’all would cry about anything.

[@МистерИ-ю8л]

@SocialExperiment232 Okay, so let's just meta Mauga for 12 months and just ignore the problem? If players complain about balance there is a reason for it.

[@Takemura77]

@@МистерИ-ю8лSoyboy bronze found

[@SocialExperiment232]

@@МистерИ-ю8л mauga was meta for like 1 month lmao 🤣 what a way to reveal your rank

[@SocialExperiment232]

@@Takemura77 they watched a couple content creators talk about how *puts tinfoil hat on “blizzard balances around skin sales guys! Look they made a widow skin and gave widow absolutely no balance changes at all so this proves that they wanted to sell the skin! Blizzard is evil” and now they just parrot the narrative no matter how silly it is.

[@GrecianGoat]

I don't think Widow is really that broken (I'm in bronze 7)

[@taiemgamerxrbg2080]

widow is broken is not true. The character is extremely aim intensive and rewarding but it takes a very long while to charge have bullets line up your shoots and have a good set up angle on very specific long sightline maps. She is very very squishy and divable at 200hp, has terrible cardboard abilities and cooldowns. Her ult is just an extended hanzo scanning arrow.The character cant even 2 shot on scope 100% a 250hp target when body shotting,So it is safe to say widow is frustrating to get one shot by but it very balanced overall and you get focused, and you have the least consistant damage on your team if you are a bad widow

[@kpkazan]

She isn't balanced, all her power is in her scoped shot It's a game that relies on using resources to win fights and she doesn't have to worry about resources because she can sit 50m away from a fight depending on the map and hit potshots for free Not even gonna indulge the skill for hitscan, you point and click on her, or wait until someone walks into your scope when they strafe, not rocket science

[@foxiestofbuns3727]

Just let the off tank pick Winston and it's all good

[@greatwhitnorth]

Easily the most annoying hero in the entire game once you start playing in High Diamond and up lobbies. No other hero in the game forced the entire lobby to play differently and to play in a much more boring way. Awful design that sticks out like a soggy turd amongst the rest of the Overwatch ecosystem.

[@ledav8894]

In every video i see about OW2, Venture is always slept on. Honestly i feel like venture can destroy widow in many cases. They have two movement ability and one that makes them invicible, + they can kill widow really quickly, just left click right click and shes gone and even if she use her grappling hook, going after her is not that hard, otherwise cool video!

[@PunchM3]

Grapple to the next high ground or get peal from another player and venture can’t do anything.

[@lameo___]

all this video showed me was by pure numbers widow is not a problem. a character, like most characters, that changes the game by existing; just in a less fun way because she doesn't automatically go away on a counter-swap.. you have to play differently, like most characters, however more intensely and people don't like that. the idea of a laser is not very good because tf2 sniper has a laser and it doesn't really change anything. nerfing mobility would just simplify the hero, to be like many heroes, where you just have to swap when you get counter-swapped, and i thought that was the type of gameplay we were trying to get away from? the most balanced way to nerf widow is by making her shots more meaningful. this would come by either reducing the amount of ammo she has significantly, increasing the delay between shots significantly, and increasing the time to full charge, etc; but these would also have to come with the reward of, when you land the charged headshot shot, it kills. she'll then fit the role of an actual sniper, rather than this current iteration aka montage mania.

[@jfd8288]

chipsa was right all along

[@falun3180]

Scopesway

[@saad1549]

can they just give soj 2x hs again i miss her

[@ocping]

The current whining about Widow is the product of what I call the CCDCC - Content Creator Drama Creation Center. There's bound to be something people are unhappy about in a game with these many heroes, so just pick one, go with the flow of other people in the CCDCC and keep yapping until the echo chamber fills up with the sounds the CCDCC want.

[@Jaskan0]

I've been playing ow since open beta in 2016. and it was obvious since then that widow was and always will be deeply flawed and shouldn't be in the game.

[@IlPolloStrabico]

Widow deserve to suck for how game breaking she is

[@Tom-wk6pv]

As a widowmaker that wins most of my games as I would like to say that she is perfectly fine and balanced 😉 Nah but seriously everyone cries about the enemy widow cause its "easy", they than swap to widow to counter, and can't kill anything. What about sniper glint? If she holds an angle with scope too long she becomes "visible" or something? Someone down in the comments mentioned a laser sight showing where she is pointing. That's a cool idea

[@Torpedophile-k9e]

"they then swap to Widow to counter" You just admitted that the only counter to Widow is another Widow. OP character whose only counter is herself 👏

[@Tom-wk6pv]

@@Torpedophile-k9e Nobody said it was the only counter. That was that players decision. You making shit up that I didn't say isn't proof of anything

[@Torpedophile-k9e]

@@Tom-wk6pv I literally quoted you dumbass

[@possumwithacowboyhat5140]

Hard disagree. Widow as a concept doesn’t fit in 5v5. Especially on maps that were designed for 6v6 and built literally around her sight lines. She functionally operates without cooldowns, in a game about managing cooldowns. She can kill an entire team in a moment flat, because someone looked away for a half moment. Not to mention she has ONLY ONE voice line that gives her position away, and it’s her ultimate, so she can see you anyways. She can take unfair high ground positions where she physically cannot be touched as she will still have cover, like some of the cheese spots on junkertown or Kings row. She currently has NO reliable counter, besides herself. This is aggressively bad game design on a fundamental level. Widowmaker is ridiculously broken and until she is either fully removed or reworked, she will continue to dominate full matches with no contest.

[@gengardanny607]

Buff widow

[@valentinecult]

if you think widow is a problem, you have a serious skill issue.

[@mayobot4590]

-a gold player

[@PunchM3]

Play in a lobby with actual decent players like in diamond and not in gold. Big difference in the players.

[@valentinecult]

@@PunchM3 i am diamond 💀 if you can't take care of a widow then you need to go play a different game LOL

[@PunchM3]

@ I can take care of a widow been doing it for 8 years, it’s just unfun to have a hero that can hold the entire lobby hostage by just holding down on scope without having to worry about anything for the most part.

[@sunsinger970]

widow rewards skill. She's fine.

[@kekecaca391]

No she doesnt

[@Anonymous-rc7kq]

Wat skill? After her bullet hit box got bigger, it’s much easier to click heads

[@whambulance8607]

People saying Widow is low skill is the why I will never take Overwatch players seriously from now on. They have warped perceptions around everything.

[@Anonymous-rc7kq]

@whambulance8607 she is low skill Learning to click heads doesn't take look to master at all especially as they increased her bullet hitbox

[@ashercattley9080]

just dive her lol

[@GoldenKing456]

fr

[@PunchM3]

There is this thing called a team, the widow is not the only player. Those other players stop you from killing the widow plus kill you, also when trying to div widow she could kill 1 or 2 of your teammates. Not to mention has a very strong escape ability allowing the widow player to take a new angle within a second or and then being able to apply her pressure by using a new angle.

[@are_birds_fish]

I'm so tired of hearing the argument that the top 2% of players are crying and seething over a character while the other 98% of the player base doesn't care. If the character doesn't cause issues for 98% of the player base then there's nothing wrong with the character. How about this idea, for grandmasters above have a different set of balance patches for it and have those players balance their version.

[@FL-uj7cs]

lol mention Reaper's terrible, slow teleport, but not Symmetra's flexible TP bomb. And you're a "coach" lmao.

[@kpkazan]

You intentionally ignored what he said, if you TP right after she uses grapple, she won't have time to react and scope in enough to one shot him after the tp animation ends, which leaves her to SMG or hit a half charged shot on him and then have to try and 1v1 with an smg against someone with invulnerablity and shotguns

[@spence6195]

Team 4 not nerfing Widowmaker just proves that they do not care

[@Frank0games]

First

[@SocialExperiment232]

Widow is not broken lol people complain about everything so they don’t have to admit to their skill issues. Her value depends on the player. That’s not what broken means. Actually there’s not a single character right now that is broken and the balance right now is pretty fair y’all just conditioned to cry about this no matter what.

[@aerostrafe1075]

such insight "git gud and she wont kill you" meanwhile ignoring the literal pros talking about how they have to play around the one hero with their 2 options.

[@yuno4373]

"Her value depends on the player" - that's why she's not much of an issue in lower ranks, but becomes absolute nightmare in higher ranks, because players there are more skilled.

[@МистерИ-ю8л]

@@aerostrafe1075 👍 when you go against the opinion of professionals and think that everyone who complains is a bronze player lol. The community definitely doesn't always use the phrase "skills problem" appropriately.

[@SocialExperiment232]

@ that’s the definition of proper balance. A character that with their kit alone is not amazing but with enough skill can become really good.

[@SocialExperiment232]

@@aerostrafe1075 the pros are complaining because they are pros. You’re not facing pro widows in your games. Stop complaining about problems you don’t have yourself.

[@nawfu]

Just get better 🙏😴

[@DrKirby-vw9wt]

bro might be a widow main

[@carlospena4387]

fr tho just get better

[@redish2098]

@@carlospena4387 nah getting better is the issue, no one gives a fuck about widow in the metal ranks

[@mankillsupers7188]

All this would be fixed with hero ban. Most comp games have character ban its needed atp since they dont want to touch her