The Problems with the Horus heresy

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[@apezplays9925]

Personally I can't empathize with most Horus Heresy characters because my dad actually loves me.

[@Calvin_Coolage]

This is why Fantasy/AoS Chaos warriors are cooler. No daddy issues, no moral relativism, they're just guys being dudes and murdering everything that looks at them funny. Plus they all look like they came off of a metal album cover.

[@aceofhearts9928]

Well, my dad killed himself to get away from me, so I can relate pretty well!

[@ScotRotum]

​@@aceofhearts9928damn selfish thing for him to do. And I bet you got therapy instead of primarch super powers too.

[@ScotRotum]

Well la di dah must be nice. Can't be more than like 5 of you so no problem there.

[@aceofhearts9928]

@ScotRotum dude I got corax's power. Super depression. Yeah, he was a firefighter, we had a bad relationship due to ptsd on his part. Eventually he loses. I'm happy he's not suffering. He gave me the gift of making dead dad jokes so it evens out in my book

[@MeatyCandy]

Phalanx wasn't produced by the Imperium. As far as i know by the current lore, Dorn just kinda found it... And fixed it a guess.

[@drxtale9446]

It’s Dorn, he has the brains to (mostly) fix a Dark Age of Technology space vehicle.

[@nobodyspecial9097]

It was discovered above his home world in orbit. He presented it as a gift to the emperor after he figured out how to get it going. As my dude stated above, the imperium did not build it.

[@chadthundercock3440]

Yes dorn could not replicate the ai piloted parts and replaced them with imperium tier technology like the mechanicum did with the ark mechanicus

[@georgereimers5269]

Ya its lazy that's what happened lol

[@koolunit]

This. Is correct. He would say

[@SRTifiable]

Okay. But hear me out. It gave us Garviel Loken. And that’s enough.

[@jidk6565]

Garvi My boy

[@andrewbrown8893]

Best Wolf boy

[@barlotardy]

Loaned. It loaned us Garviel Loken. We did not get to keep him.

[@IvanIvanovv]

We also got rylanor and saul tarvitz too

[@AAblade7]

%$&%$& Erebus

[@jidk6565]

Wild to think that when the chaos legions culled thete ranks It was the world eaters who had the largest number of Loyalists The Guys with the Butchers Nails where the most numerous of all Loyalists in the Traitor Legions

[@AltoStratusX1]

I mean I don't think that's cuz they were super jazzed on the Emperor. I think it's more Angron didn't have that primarch charisma to ensure all his sons would get over the whole "turning traitor" thing. Also when selecting who goes down to Istvaan 3 I have a funny feeling Angron wasn't super discerning and just sent down like weaker fighters rather then those who were loyal. The reason they were "loyalist" is cuz they started getting bombed then killed by their own guys so they said "yea well fk you too"

[@louisnall3102]

Alot of the World Eaters kind of hated Angron. Pre-Heresy 1/3 World Eaters tried a coup to prevent the legion from getting the Nails.

[@stuartburns8657]

Thought originally it was the Ultramarines who had the biggest legion?

[@gilbertgarnica7896]

I think battle for the abyss is not bad but man does nemesis feel like a slog. The only book I quit for now.

[@stuartburns8657]

@@gilbertgarnica7896 I was quite fanatical early to mid heresy novels. Got to a point where I felt they where insulting my money, and more importantly my time. Ended up these last few years listening to summarises. Don't feel like I've missed out too much either lol.

[@Icspiders247]

Huge problem with the Horus Heresy was that there were multiple authors that were allowed to do pretty much whatever they wanted with no oversight, so characters that appeared in the books covered by more than author felt like they were schizophrenic and didn't know who they were from book to book.

[@guybrushthreepwood362]

Everyone watching this video is a human he says? Little does Arthur know that my fish in the Fish Tank can see this video too. They like the Tau

[@Jake-zk3eb]

Just because it sees, doesn't mean it watches.

[@guybrushthreepwood362]

@@Jake-zk3eb my fishes response speaks for itself. "Blub blub blub"

[@brian2888]

@@guybrushthreepwood362 “It’s gaining sentience!” *Violently smashes forehead on Exterminatus button*

[@nthedecent7717]

​@@brian2888 SUFFER NOT THE MUTANT

[@Adorni]

I love the name “The Vengeful Spirit” for Horus’ (and later Abaddon’s) flagship, but I love the fact that this was its name _before_ he fell to Chaos even more. It’s like “ah yes, there’s a trustworthy and loyal fellow there, without question.”

[@darnis6497]

I was reading Horus Rising for the first time and actually laughed that it was called that BEFORE he falls to chaos.

[@thewerdna]

Almost as big a red flag as the dude being named Horus Heresy

[@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745]

The name goes hard tho ngl

[@Goldenblitzer]

My headcannon is that it’s named that because it would be leading humanity’s crusades after it was massively oppressed for the last however long since the dark age of technology. And it goes SO hard

[@timtim6373]

Reminds me of the Franklin expedition where they sent the HMS Erebus and the HMS Terror on a ultimately doomed journey to find the northern passage.

[@Itjustdavid]

I wish scalpers a happy time in the skinning pits if i dont get my Dark angels box set

[@filthyfergus923]

Same.

[@Teno2001]

I don’t play dark angels but am with you since if I don’t get my night lords kill team. Am gonna go full curze on there asses!

[@sakupel]

I didnt get it. I feel immense amounts of hostility towards scalpers right now.

[@astral_ragtime5365]

@davidherrera1961 did you end up getting your Deathwing box?

[@Itjustdavid]

@@astral_ragtime5365 I did and I still haven't finished building everything lmao

[@sukmykrok3388]

Scalpers are the worst waste of space in society.

[@maximillianhallett3055]

I’d argue its the people with no self-control that enables the scalpers that are worse. Fighting scalpers is easy if you can say “I don’t need this.” and then actually follow through and not buy the thing. Scalpers will always exist. We can’t actually legislate them away, its on us the consumer to make them eat the cost.

[@sukmykrok3388]

@maximillianhallett3055 I completely agree! A lot of the times, at least recently, manufacturers have taken measures to fight off scalpers! Sony with the ps5, for example. It took a bit, but those that waited for ps5s to make a comeback were rewarded for their patience! They got a valid warranty and Sony tech support, something scalper customers don't have, lol!

[@usernamunavailiable]

No

[@sukmykrok3388]

@@usernamunavailiable yes

[@TheChronozoan]

While I agree with the strength of feeling that spurred your comment, in a world that contains molesters and worse, I don't think scalpers reach that infamous bottom slot.

[@mysos444]

From May 2022 until December 2023, I have spent every single second of my commute to listen to audiobooks from Horus Heresy and I am telling you that no story ever moved me like Horus Heresy. It is the best thing you can do with your reading time, flaws and all.

[@georgesulea]

I love the lore, but I've never seen such depth presented on a storyline for a game system, which, in my mind, is no longer JUST a game system. It's a metaverse now.

[@maltheri9833]

It's gotta be the most indepth book series ever next to maybe the Bible. The Bible had Hella books and a collection of stories and they pieced them together in an order they preferred similar to how 40k is.

[@malcire]

​@@maltheri9833still fewer pages and less internally consistent (the Bible).

[@AAllen-br8it]

Has been for a while just no one called it that.

[@dannyd.9932]

To be fair 40k has always been a very detailed lore background but it was less revealed and more implied. The only difference is now we have it all in writing now. Granted I take issues with many of the books quality level but I can ignore most of that.

[@miketogwell1000]

battletech begs to differ .....

[@jestinjeffries9430]

The Phalanx wasn't built by the Imperium it was built during the dark age of Technology if I remember correctly, but I do know that it is older than the Imperium. I haven't finished the Horus Heresy yet myself, I put it down and then got so far behind that it was hard to find the physical books. But I feel you on those certain books your like 'Who is this and why should I care?' and it takes twice as long to slog through the book. I just finished the Successors Book it was a great read thanks for recommending it I loved the Soul Drinkers story and I hope they do a follow story. If you get a chance read the Fall of Cadia and then read Creed Ashes of Cadia you will really enjoy both of those novels. Cadia stands had this old war vet crying at a couple of different points it was so well written

[@LinkiePup]

The Horus Heresy almost made me feel something for Space Marines. Unless it was the bombing of the Coral City. That still hits so hard I legitimately cried the first time I read it.

[@brian2888]

The Isstvan betrayal genuinely devastated me when I heard it the first time. The way that the loyalists were described as confused like lost children. And the way they faced their terrible ends with who they once called friends and allies, making new friends with brothers who they would have never meant without this disaster. Also when the World Eaters charged Angron in a final act of defiance was also heartbreaking as all they screamed was, “Die!” (I yapped too long mb)

[@ogrynmod1765]

I cant really feel bad for genocidal assholes

[@elkpants1280]

@@brian2888I enjoyed your yap session brother marine; may your yaps be thoughtful and compelling for all time.

[@brian2888]

@@elkpants1280 Let us yap unto battle!

[@elkpants1280]

@@brian2888 OUR YAPPING SHALL BE GLORIOUS! TO YAP IS TO SERVE THE EMPEROR!

[@Dima072181]

Valdor: birth of the Imperium is technically the beginning

[@maxxpodbielski7828]

13:41 imagine literally stopping the audiobook on the moment where he starts fighting them to open youtube and clicking on this video lol

[@patrickbolding9729]

I think the problem with the HH is that it is now fleshed out. 40K was best when EVERYTHING was shrouded in 10,000 years of myth. The player could make their own narrative and not effect the greater setting at all. Wanna make a Dark Angels chapter that has a different take on the Fallen, tough shit, they're all friends now.

[@Halfort57]

The Fallen were kinda a silly idea when you remember the loyalist space marine chapters also had traitors to some degree yet they didn't make a penitent crusade out of it

[@mannofdober873]

Well, if the Emperor didn't want Horus turning on him, he shouldn't have given him to the Heresy family.

[@collecter343]

Oof, yeah Battle for the Abyss was my first HH book that made me stop and think “Maybe I can pick and choose which books to actually read”

[@AAhmou]

Mechanicum, then Nemesis are the ones who made me skip most of the books considered bad.

[@collecter343]

@@AAhmou Yeah, I skipped those two based off of Arbitor Ian, maybe later if I want Mechanicus and/or Assassin stories but not for a while in any case.

[@Mr.Praetor]

Gotta love that even with the Squat retcon, they still re-released the Squats (Votan) after the Horus Heresy came out. So you remove the Squats being there the whole time but then you reintroduce Squats being there the whole time. Never change. GW

[@ShockArcl1te]

GW's habit of saying "Imperium evil trust us bro" is continually at odds with "but look how good the goodguy Imperium is in these books!"

[@arionofotherworld]

I liked some of the older lore over the retcons, for example i prefered the Emperor and the Primarchs not being 10ft tall giants and just being big 7ft tall guys like space marines and custodians. I also liked the old lore of Angron being so obessessed with his own personal honor to the point that he was the first to follow Horus against the Emperor, was oddly focused and clear thinking as a Deamon Primarch of Khorne, and among the last of the Traitors to leave the seige of Terra.

[@Ivy-xc4iv]

I've really liked the series but one resource I really liked using was the Horus heresy omnibus project its really helpful if I want to focus on a particular legion or character.

[@EldritchThing]

Second this, I’ve been reading the Horus Heresy series selectively by focusing on arcs outlined by this project - very handy when some plot threads are seeded through short stories

[@Clembassador]

Mark V was dubbed heresy because it was the most common armor issued when the heresy broke out, Mark VI was brand new at the time the heresy broke out. Also Battle for the Abyss is a slog, good info but drier than a nun’s twat in the Sahara. Oh Dorn repaired the Phalanx and gifted it to Big E on his arrival, so it was not made by the Imperium making it true the Furious Abyss the largest the Imperium made.

[@leary_93]

Wasn't Mark 5 essentially a mix of all the current armour variants at the time; reinforced with extra plating and studs, scavenged bits from traitors and loyalists alike?

[@odinlindeberg4624]

Mark V was not commonly issued, it was scrounged together from damaged suits of power armour to make replacements.

[@thewretchedpleb7484]

It would have been hilarious to see Angron after the great crusade. I'd lay odds he would have an arena constructed just for him to fight criminals and slaves, just like Nuceria. It'd be coming full circle, in a kind of perverse way. He'd despise himself for being both a highrider in all but name, yet still a slave to the Emperor. On top of the nails.

[@jo_ken]

I mean had he not gone Daemon and made it to after the great crusade he probably would’ve died since the Butcher’s nails were killing him.

[@thewretchedpleb7484]

@@jo_ken yknow, I honestly didn't think of that at all 🤣

[@arkwarp5970]

I just got into the Siege of Terra novels last year and thankfully most of the physical copies had been available on the website, until I got to Echoes of Eternity (My absolute favorite of the series so far). That search took me to eBay and the eye watering prices of the later books. ESPECIALLY the hardcovers. God help you if you wanted the limited editions Also btw, please First Heretic, Know No Fear, and Betrayer in that order (they work so well as a little trilogy)

[@jdjdraw]

Echoes is the greatest book in the Warhammer setting IMO

[@ThatKrazyTimGuy]

I literally laughed out loud when you joked about your ADHD being so bad you have to listen to the audio book while you paint. I've only recently found your channel (love your presence and personality) and have been watching/listening.....while painting.

[@DmoTraz]

Garro is THE top tier character (I main GKs on the tabletop but nevermind that) Biggest problem... Black Library taking forever to reprint some key books (still missing a few that I've had to read past (I don't do audio books or epubs) which is really a bummer)

[@mokithepepe2454]

one thing i like especially with the earlier books are the non astartes pov characters like having mortals act differently i think builds up what an actual space marine is like to be around and also an insight into the legion that you wouldnt otherwise get

[@gawkthimm6030]

its crucial IMO astartes are horrible characters to get people attached too, I couldn't read any warhammer if there were no human characters

[@Dogboon-]

At this point I think the imperium is based upon Games workshop head office.

[@CaptainPrincess]

Yes. I am definitely a fellow Human, the same as you. Yes.

[@alastor8091]

>Steven Universe pfp Youre so much less than human xenos look like pure blood nobles.

[@CaptainPrincess]

​@@alastor8091 Skill issue

[@japhettheprophet4619]

Mark 5 and 6 existed before and during the heresy, the reason mark 5 is called heresy armor is because it was easy to make as it was makeshift between all armors being bolted together, with mark 6 being mostly adopted by the Raven guard

[@albe348]

The Horus heresey got too big for itself, that now overshadoves 40k from a lore perspektive.

[@Fordo11789]

You don’t know how much I look forward to see you upload on Thursdays

[@meanestgreen3320]

John gramaticus is an integral character at the latter half of the books and I hate that guy

[@AAhmou]

I hate the Cabal as a concept and whenever one of their perpetual human followers show up, I sigh heavily.

[@joshwenn989]

Dan Abnett and his consequences have been a disaster for the Horus Heresy

[@thewretchedpleb7484]

You're not wrong about the naming conventions for the legions and primarchs. I always saw it as charming, if overly simplistic. But I can see why a lot of people would be turned off from HH by the cartoonish characterization of said primarchs. The writers (both official and fan in a lot of cases) have done serious heavy lifting to bring the factions to life beyond their basic overview. But its still a hard sell on Morty and the DG lol

[@collecter343]

It’s funny in that some legions had less outright evil names (Dusk Raiders, Warhounds, etc.) so when their respective Primarchs were found it was even more telling when they chose very on the nose names.

[@special_signi2998]

The main problem with the “you already knew who was gonna fall” was that 40k iterations of the traitors came first, so it was a game to try to convince the reader that X actually DID hold loyalty and then fell, with Mortarion being an example of how they fumbled this concept.

[@georgereimers5269]

Im reading the HH and its great honestly its been making me excited about both painting and sculping models!

[@Kowalskiboom90]

If you didn't like battle for the abyss, you're in for a treat. I kind of liked that, but maaaaaan are there stinkers in it, and I only just started Betrayer. Also, some books are needlessly long. Nonetheless, there are a few awesome books, so you're also in for a treat on this side.

[@pariah6646]

Finished the heresy about a year ago and finally finished siege of Terra just this semester. Definitely a lot of information that gets thrown at you. Going back to a book you haven't read in years is such a good feeling though. I felt like I was reading Scars for the first time again but at the same time I understand all that was leading up to those events. Definitely worth the push though!

[@bassboomboing]

I love your music choice. "AI give me suitable music to narrate a future grim-dark galactic war" -Soft Lounge Jazz, thanks

[@ciandaly9575]

iirc its an album made to simulate dementia

[@Cmdtheartist]

The overwhelming Himalayan mountain range amount of books comprising what is essentially a bloodier, more violent version of Monopoly staggers my mind so completely that I bicycle fruitstand seagull frammistat. I hope I've my myself clear, bingo card.

[@dennisbatye1932]

The Abyss was the biggest the Impirium ever made. The phalanx wasn’t made by the Impirium it was made in the dark age of technology. Even the. The abyss was impressively half the size of the phalanx

[@AAhmou]

The Abyss class battleship, 3 of them were made by Dark Mechanicum and captained by the Word Bearers. Yet despite them being those massive ships that can even take on a Gloriana class ship and come out on top, the losers somehow managed to lose 2 of them!

[@loopgru]

So, in my teenage years I was deeeeeep down the rabbit hole of the D&D (Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance) novels. There were a metric ass ton of them. Some were great, some fewer are great even in retrospect 30 years later, and others... not so much. Regardless, though, there are a few books from those days that I could see revisiting, and I expect HH will be much the same. Fear to Tread, Flight of the Eisenstein, Horus Rising- there are some genuinely *really* good books there.

[@Marcus10k]

10:35 the phalanx wasn’t created by the imperium.

[@Mister42Unhinged]

You have to take the good with the bad (books). They all have nuggets of information. I like to read not really into audiobooks, even though I have listen to a few. My book shelfs groan under the weight of the Horus Heresy, 40k books, Forgotten Realms, Dragon Lance and Normie books. But I'm getting off track. When you were talking about Battle for the Abyss, I sitting thinking wait I have to go back and reread that (yes that book is a bit scattered). Then I'm was already thinking I need to go back and restart the Heresy. While waiting for the End and the Death 2 & 3 to come out. It's been what 10 years since the first book in the series came out?? Hell I don't remember. Damn now I forgot where I was going with this. Oh well Great Video well made. Keep it up love the fact your so raw with your lore very amusing. Way different from the other channels I follow.

[@6dragondaddy913]

Battle for the Abyss is a drag after Legion...

[@sombra_rex1212]

Damn I'm literally reading legion about to go into battle for the abyss because of the guide I use 😅

[@alexabadajos7461]

when I heard the words "book I didn't vibe with" I was like he just got to the battle for the abyss 10 thousand percent and low and behold

[@notknightbean]

If I could recreate the heresy, I'd try to write 5 to 10 books, and each book would be these greek epics and framed in a tragic lens. these books would be huge and almost biblical in tone. first book would focus on horus's fall and the corruption of the luna wolves, ending with the scouring of the legions. Second book would focus on ferrus manus and the iron hands learning of the heresy, and going to stop with the salamanders and raven guard, before ferrus dying in his fight verse fulgrim (maybe follow the escape of some of the shattered legions and show the desperation and rage too), third book would be the establishment of the ruin storm, and keep going until you finally conclude with the emperor broken in his fight with horus and placed on the golden throne. each primarch should feel tragic in their own way, paragons and aspiration in other ways but also extremely tragic and even sometimes sympathetic. the legions themselves should feel unique in style and role, but with the similarities in structure. during the books you can even interspirs with mini stories about the various other campaigns or wars going on. You have whole planets being torn asunder and massively unimaginable armies marching to war. It should all feel grand in scale.

[@jacobfadipe3703]

dawg there is no way in hell you're ever gonna compress almost 70 books into a 5-10 book long series, forget biblical tone those books are gonna be longer than 10 bibles put together, each one of those would be like a 10,000 page Odyssey, you'd get to the end and have forgotten both the reason you started and what the hell happened at the beginning cus it'd take like six months to read one of those books

[@gothicshark]

White Dwarf 139 published 1991 had that ship, not by name but by design. Phalanx is larger, so is the Rock, but with the Phalanx it was built long before the age of the Imperium, and is basically a Battle station with drive engines, and the Rock is a big chunk of a planet with engines attached. The Abyss was as far as I know was intended to make use of the classic art from that white dwarf issue, which shows a Space Station sized Battleship. With 3 front prongs.

[@nicedraeger2794]

the horus heresy, but every book is written by dan abnett

[@88Grabarz]

I read only Horus Rising and I loved it so much as a study of a beggining of a tragic character arch that I'm uffraid to read more xD I found it to be showing those first cracks of the image of the Imperor in Horus mind so well that I'm not willing to spoil it with any more storytelling. This is enough for me :D

[@Goldenblitzer]

I love physical books, but audiobooks are so handy for when I’m driving or doing chores, I use both mediums to work my way through the heresy

[@kristianfischer9814]

Battle for the Abyss is just not very well written. About the Mk 5 and 6 armor: the 5 came along during the Heresy to get a mark that was fast to produce and especially fast to repair. The 6 was largely used by the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion because it fit their methods of warfare. Angron and Mortarion didn’t want it because it was too light. Could a squad of World Eaters have come across some suits and used them? Sure. But not widely used.

[@endlesswaffles6504]

Honestly the Blood Angels seem like should have been on the chaos side. They're led by a mutated winged angel who looks just like the biblically accurate Devil. He's cursed with visions of his own death, and is constantly holding back an incredible rage. His legion is a bunch of literally bloodthirsty cannibals. Definitely a chaos army.

[@Johan_the_Marshal]

There are 64 books in the Horus Heresy series... so... yeah thats a lot of books.

[@GhostBear3067]

Well a lot of Angron's problem is that he is what happens when the Paladin is surgically forced to be the Barbarian.

[@AlBakerDev]

I followed Arbitor Ian’s guide, following his skips, then going back and filling in the blanks after… I have 5 books left in total. Overall I think they are great… I am glad there is a book series like this. Heck I want to listen to Saturnine, First Heretic , and Master of Mankind again!

[@LJD442]

I started the series last year and have been moving through it at a decent pace how Battle for the Abyss and First Herertic took forever I found there to be too many charcters I couldn't care for. It gets better hang on it will be over one day!

[@AAhmou]

It's a rollercoaster, it can get both better and worse.

[@NIL0S]

If anything, there ISN'T enough Warhammer 40k lore 😌 I wish there was a Horus Heresy type deal, but for other factions. Something almost entirely Xenos centric.

[@larurentius]

This

[@specialed1420]

I'm new behind the pay wall.... I've been missing tf out XD

[@Marlun42]

My main problem is since I really like physical books, it can be very hard to find the next entry in the series thats not luke $80-$90 for the paperback.

[@fabioeliasreisritter8827]

I'm currently on my 13th horus heresy book. Battle of the abyss is... Weird, not going to spoil anything, but the world eater captain and the thousand sons character are the most interesting by far, but it seems like if that book didn't exist, it wouldn't affect anything during "Know no fear", so... Anyway, I'm loving it and decided to put a resolution that this year I would read 90 books. I'm on my 6th, don't know if I'll get to read all of them, but I hope I can read most of the HH books in time to get to the siege of terra. One thing that is helping me is that I started to practice how to type faster, so I started to read faster as well. I just finished Tales of Heresy in two days and I'm currently reading Nemesis, and I'm having a blast doing so. Don't know what I'll do with all that much lore inside my head, maybe I'll start a channel too, idk. But in the meantime, I'm loving the books, most of them, at least. (I'm looking at you, Burning of Prospero, you deceived me!)

[@jakeweisenberger]

I definitely find it hard to continue reading in the proper order. Atm I'm listening to ciaphus Cain the anthology, but once I finish ipl have to do my best to find the book after legion. My main priority is getting to the battle for terra, but it's quite tricky to find the right books and skip the less important entries

[@killermario9274]

I’ve always kinda disliked the Horus heresy on principle, because it changed the dynamic of chaos space marines being some ancient unfathomable horror out of time that have witnessed and conquered technology beyond comprehension of the greatest archmagos to a much more bland angsty army. Obviously represented on table top they’ve always been like that, but in the realm of chaos lore books they were made to be genuinely disturbing and evil. Writing out the Horus heresy wipes out a lot of that opportunity to me, especially when they put so much information changes the Horus heresy from some esoteric legend into something you quite well understand and fathom on a meta level, and makes it more mundane and less expansive as a whole. It’s a meta narrative issue and I’ve rarely heard others bring it up. I love the idea of marines driven mad from 10000 years of life amongst the energies that tear apart the universe, but even the time manipulation of the warp feels more significant, making the average Horus heresy surviving legionnaire less impressive in my eyes. The current chaos space marine range, while being gorgeous, really doesn’t help that. They look more how I’d imagine immediate post-seige of terra marines to look. It just doesn’t feel logical that these marines were on the warmasters ship that drove custodies mad with their warp energies and they’ve only changed a little within ten thousand years. The rouge trader models, for all their gumminess, represented an organic fusion of the armor to the marines, making them look more animalistic and biomechanical from an art direction perspective. Like there were really demons inhabiting their armor and subtly changing their form versus just adding angry faces and ridged trim to the armor. For all it’s goofiness and through the nose writing, that era had some ideas that I’d argue from a creative aspect are worth more than a complete rewrite. I think a lot about dark crusades chaos campaign, without the large series behind it the whole story feels much more sinister and obscured, like there’s something dark behind each landmark, each ruin. Even if the player is forced to fill in most of those gaps the air of mystery around it really gives you the feeling of something that should have been lost. But with those many novels behind jt, it just feels like another scattered campaign of thousands, and removes a lot of that tension. If you see this I’d really like to hear what you think Arthur, I love your content and I find you’re one of the most nuanced lore KZbinrs in the game

[@babutaterbuggrimm6678]

I struggled with battle for the abyss as well. I put that book down and made sad faces at it a fair few times.

[@robingraves9517]

I started reading the series in ,, 2009 I think ( its been a long road and a lot has gone on in my life since I started,,yeah,,2009) and I have read ( ok absorbed) every book that came out. I am waiting this very moment for the hardback edition of End And The Death vol, 3 to arrive at my house from Amazon ( should have been here Tuesday but Amazon is inefficient and always delays my orders). IM sitting here going STARK RAVING MAD waiting for it to get here so I can start the first page. Ive only waited 16 YEARS for this book!

[@shakazulu301]

Don’t forget, we also got the story of Ancient Rylanor…… one of my favorite stories ever, of all time…..

[@Krojester]

I'm almost to the Siege of Terra, book 50/51-ish. Salamanders are a tough read for me. Vulcan doesn't really have any character growth or arc beyond, "Oh no, I am a giant demi-god war leader-forge master, and I've made weapons of mass destruction!" The Salamanders themselves is just minor friction between the "Vulcan lives!!!" and the cynics. I feel like Shadrak Meduson's end was abrupt and weirdly handled. I can't think of any other character with as much build up and development who just ***poof*** goes away with practically no fanfare.

[@Gr_ywind]

After going through this monstrosity of a series the one issue I had is that it does the whole anime thing and pads with chapters and entire novels that are mostly filler and doesn't progress the story. All in all I think it's worth while to get through but for all the boils in the garden and your sanity, go at your own pace.

[@leary_93]

Some is world building but yeah a lot is filler 😅

[@Splatterpunk_OldNewYork]

As a fellow painter, I salute you Sir.

[@otiswhitt1129]

Read the whole heresy & some of it was an absolute slog, shout out to ruinstorm & battle for the abyss for almost breaking me. Wonderful video

[@lukegeraci1743]

Mr bones to clarity abysall class is the largest warship class the imperium can produce while the phalanx is an irreplaceable ship/battlestation from the DAOT

[@sanguinius_yt]

Best part about it was the feeling of brotherhood. The stories about Loken Torgaddon Tarvitz Garro etc are all the best stories we’ve ever gotten. Loyalists from traitor legions.

[@user-zt7ex6ce8g]

Warhammer 4K with surround sound audio

[@hailon_rias7341]

Oh my!! I was also going through the HH books and enjoying them, I read 10 books in like 2 months like I read A Thousand sons in like a single day and then I got to battle for the abyss and I’m still reading through it and it fucking sucks haha really put a halt to my progress

[@obtainablespatula5389]

mk5 was technically just the name given to any mix and match suits of armor, as lots of the survivors of istvaan 5 had to grab whatever was on hand. mk6 was handed around after calth and istvaan, and some got into the hands of taitors through mechanicum traitors

[@nunyabeeswax4588]

Battle for the Abyss was a snoozefest for me too

[@fernandopires135]

Its conforting to know that im not the only one stuck in the battle for the abyss It really feels similar to tv static

[@Lazarou101]

It also doesn't help that one of the key authors REALLY doesn't like the Custodes & The Emporer, and then was allowed to write Custodes & The Emporer.

[@alexandermostovyk531]

I noticed Damnation of Pythos was a favorite of yours-I want folks’ take on it. I might have been mixed about it but that was years ago-I can’t put my finger on it, going over the synopsis it didn’t seem that bad.

[@fabianocarvalholeopoldofil3476]

I am a fan of warhammer 40k from brazil. If you think it's expensive in uk and usa, imagine 10 times worse and then you will understand my situation. It's not expensive because Brazil's money is shit (this is just part of the reason) but because games workshop doesn't even try to legally be present in here. And believe me, there is public for this product.

[@Reaver21Br]

me lembro de ir no site da gw uma vez por curiosidade pra ver os preço das mini dos guardas imperial, pensando em um dia montar um exército, então vi os preços e dei mei volta, nem pensar que compro um daqueles bagulhos com aqueles preços, ainda mais um exército de horda

[@reederickson3202]

I think, for me, one of the more compelling parts of the Heresy is at the end of the Great Crusade when Loken and others wax poetic about the purpose of the Astartes and whether or not the Great Crusade is ever going to end. I like your point about Angron. You can't imagine him doing anything other than killing after the Crusade. In fact, a lot of the primarchs come off that way, because war is what they were built to do. I can't imagine Leman Russ being content with peace, either. I think that's a major theme of the Heresy. These are genetically engineered monsters that were designed to kill. The Imperium's philosophy and methods led them down a path where there is no chance for peace. Pretty much the only one of them that had the foresight to consider what he and his sons were going to do once it was all over was Guilliman, and he found out the hard way that there is no end to it. There is only war.

[@johnberry2387]

“Dan Abnett releases his book, the Chris releases his book, meanwhile Aaron Dembski-Bowden is two books deep and ready to release his book.” This made me laugh so hard as an ADB fan.

[@corbenoneill3092]

Angron is also a tragic guy , when hes asked why he hates hes sons i felt bad for the guy , big E made mistakes with him

[@MrBenMcLean]

I have read all the Horus Heresy main series books. (currently on Fury of Magnus in Siege of Terra) Battle for the Abyss is the worst book out of the entire series. If you can get through that one, it's all downhill from there because while they won't all be great, they will all be better than that one. Also, the Furious Abyss could be the biggest spaceship ever produced by the Imperium while also being smaller than the Phalynx because the Phalynx wasn't produced by the Imperium. It's from the Dark Age of Technology, not from the Imperium of Man. The Imperium owns the Phalynx but didn't build it. The Furious Abyss would be the biggest one they had built up to that time, assuming "everything is canon" so we're not going to just quietly ignore this book due to it being bad.

[@midgetydeath]

“The problem with the Horus Heresy” but the video is only fifteen minutes long.

[@irtehdar2446]

The real problem asfar as I see it we were never intended to know what actually went down. The story was made for the game first and foremost and in the game you take on the role of a commander of a small force dumped off to die a violent death on a planet you never knew the name of fighting in a perpetual war you don't know how even started. If you look through any of the older codices or other official material (anything more than 10 years old) any information about the setting is presented as disjointed/censored/questionable field reports. Until about 10 years ago the whole "believe it and it will be so" of the orcs could still be explained away by simply pointing out the fact that any and all references to that ability was random reports of tech priests that can't tell the difference between an IKEA assembly manual and a sacred text. They simply couldn't fathom why the machine god would allow something to function if it was not put together with the standard IKEA screws. And this really permeates how the whole franchise has moved away from the old dogma of nothing is truly canon, nothing can ever be retconned because it's all gone through 10.000 years of bureaucracy, propaganda and censorship written predominantly by people who didn't understand the respective subjects and wrote whatever crazy shit they believed would elevate their station.

[@ironknight132]

This is what I miss most about 40k.

[@alistairbuckle3450]

4:28 Maybe it could be defined as ‘nominative determinism’, the theory that your name has an effect on your future outcome.

[@SeanCrosser]

Mk.V is whatever jank they had to jerry-rig together during the Heresy. Mk.VII is post-Heresy, and so shouldn't be accessible to Traitors outside of being stolen, pilfered, or scavenged.

[@hopelessedgelord]

9:44 I'm in the same boat pal I started battle for the abyss, months ago I didn't get into it (I especially hate the space wolf bringar) a gaunts ghosts book got released I then finished the last four books in that series in like two weeks and have just been listening to one off books instead of the battle for the abyss. I am now forcing myself through it so I can continue with the heresy 11:13 I could swear he gets legion numbers mixed up or just plain wrong in the book alot.

[@disgruntledtoons]

The biggest problem with the Horus Heresy is that for the events to unfold as they did requires the Emperor to be far and away too stupid to have done any of the good things that he did. Hubris alone is not enough to account for it.

[@kyleplotsky1726]

I'm on the Outcast Dead and definitely found Battle for the Abyss on my lower tier. Even though I'm a big Dark Angel fan I find the loyalist legion books a bit lacking compared to the ones following loyalist in traitor legions. Also big nod to the First Heretic for making me actually like a Word Bearer

[@sexyatheist69]

The armour marks are a bit weird, but since we know mk6 existed by Istvaan 5 as the raven guard were protyping and still developing it the other legions still had access to it but mostly didn't prefer it, this also means mk5 should have been around at this point as well.

[@DaKdawg]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that found Battle for the Abyss a slog. I'm not sure what it is about it, but that de railed me until I said "Screw it, I'm reading Mechanicus!" Not sure if it's Ben Counter's prose or the fact that the whole event in the book felt generalized...as if it wasn't on any continuity and I couldn't grasp any of the characters. It was a huge narrative disconnect, we're going from character interactions, political intrigue and going right into "This here's a space battle, pew, pew pew!" What's crazy is I enjoyed "Galaxy in Flames", but maybe he just had to hammer it out and that was what he was given, I dunno man. Early 2000's Black Library was something else. No one really knew we were going on this 20 year long journey of Horus Heresy Novels. It was a really daunting task and I bet, despite it all, everyone is kinda glad that we've made it to the end.

[@EldritchThing]

I started the Horus Heresy reading journey when a friend loaned me his spare copy of “A Thousand Sons”. I’d read a decent chunk of W40K several years prior, and had avoided the HH due to its sprawling length (as Arthur points out), but once I was done with “A Thousand Sons” it led me to buying the bulk of GW’s selection made available online. To curious readers I’d say go for the first three books to gauge your actual interest. If you’re onboard, follow it up with books four and five, and then start doing a bit of research into recommendations, reviews, and reading guides. Personally I’ve approached the series selectively as most of the books are tied to one story arc or another - for instance I’m already seeing a lot of “The First Heretic -> Know No Fear -> Betrayer” which I would also point you towards. Reading the Heresy provides a lot of insight and context for 40K’s setting, it’s a foundational myth and also kinda the “main story” if you’re looking for less bolter porn and more narrative (mileage varies) My main issue? I prefer reading my books physically, I like having shelves of shit okay and there’s like 9? 12 maybe? of the Horus Heresy books in print. I started with “A Thousand Sons” a year ago, and still haven’t read “Prospero Burns” because I want an actual copy. So if you’re an audiobook or e-reader type then go for it, otherwise better get dredging on eBay my dude.

[@pigeon4x250]

I honestly want to read the heresy. I want to get the lore on characters and see what they've done to take traitor, "curly mustache twirling" characters and make them seem like they weren't originally supposed to be the villain. Some of the new Lore on Angron from before the Emperor found him took him immediately from being one of my least favorite characters to one of my most favorites. Even going so far as to cause me to make a homebrew Loyalist World Eaters Chapter for kill team that passes down stories of the earliest days of the great crusade, and legends of what Angron could have been within the chapter and all they want to do is one day be able to redeem their father's name. I love a tragic primarch story. That being said, it's WAAAAAY too many books and I'm never going to read that. Please keep reading and sharing that deep lore!

[@brandonlyon730]

We definitely still need to eventually get a War on Heaven book series.

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

That would just be xenos fighting xenos. I’d rather see a detailed series covering the Badab war or the Ago of Apostasy.

[@ColCoal]

I am liking the series. I am just starting on The Last Heretic. So far Legion is my favorite book.

[@PinchyTheKittyGirl]

Goddamn dude. I gave up on Wheel of Time because there were too many books in the series.

[@NotThatGuyJD]

I just decided that i will only read 40K and absolutely ignore 30K and the heresy.