The "Project M" of Competitive Pokemon - Hoenn Gaiden

Dragon Heaven Pet Mod Client - dragonheaven.herokuapp.com/
Hoenn Gaiden Discord - / discord
Thanks DkKoba for the Video request! Become a Tier 3 patron to request a video topic.
/ jimothycool
Check out this playlist of Hoenn Gaiden Tournament replays, commentated by me!
• JimCool's Hoenn Gaiden...
Teams -
Deo-S + Ball HO by JimCool - pokepast.es/b60c52d792ab6fe4
Hitmonlee Mixed Offense by JimCool - pokepast.es/8474e785efc05e31
Cloyster Sand by King of Iron Frisk - pokepast.es/a3fb61d9228fbccf
Jim's Hail - pokepast.es/a1520d39a96067ad
Sunflora Weather Clear by JimCool - pokepast.es/869ddfcb235cb841
Superman Returns by Fruhdazi - pokepast.es/ecde5d10661801ec
0:00 Intro
1:46 How Tyranitar is used in Hoenn Gaiden
3:42 Magnezone and it's impact
6:03 New Ghost types
7:14 Hail + The Hoenn Gaiden Weather Wars
10:17 Deoxys-Speed (Yes, that's allowed) Spikes HO
11:09 They buffed Delibird.
12:03 Swampert and Gengar remain Great.
12:30 Why Electrode Hisui is Awesome.
14:33 Why Cloyster is the new Skarmory.
16:32 Parasect has been Buffed.
18:36 Sunflora has DESOLATE LAND.
20:31 Talonflame's Gen 3 Rework
20:51 Weezing-Galar the Defensive Beast
23:05 Jim's Game-Breaking Hail Team
26:17 Why Kleavor is Great.
27:20 Hitmonlee has MAGIC GUARD.
28:43 Fruhdazi's Full Superman Team
33:07 Outro
Hoenn Gaiden is a Pokemon Showdown Pet Mod for Gen 3 OU, that aims to bring Modern Pokemon to Gen 3 as well as reworking existing Pokemon. ADV OU is not how I remember it with these great new additions.
#competitivepokemon #pokemonshowdown #gen3

[@jimothycool]

Check out these Hoenn Gaiden ladder games with some new teams! kzbin.info/www/bejne/eILQk2enipWLoa8 Hoenn Gaiden Discord - discord.gg/D6rjDvjU6E

[@dragoniteisbased]

He might have mentioned it in the video, but ledian has pure power and aeroblast, as well as respectable 85 speed, so it’s actually kind of a threat now This also continues the trend of literally every Pokémon mod buffing ledian

[@strangevol5264]

Because it’s cute!

[@ValToadstool]

Talonflame actually gets flame body normally, gale wings is its hidden ability

[@dayandere2669]

Parasect being bug/ghost makes so much sense

[@slimyfister]

Don't let the paras evolve

[@butteredsalmonella]

@@slimyfister Let it die! Let it die! Let it shrivel around and die!

[@Ehibika]

I disagree because he's not a zombie through supernatural means, it's literally because he's a puppet of the mushroom. I will accept it for gameplay reasons but it's the kind of thinking that leads people to want to make Pokemon part fighting just because it can punch.

[@showsister69]

Cool he still sucks. His typing is holding him back, his stats hold him back even more. People act like things like this is what stops them from playing but it's a scapegoat

[@Charliezard7]

@@showsister69 it definitely has more use now

[@Dionaea_floridensis]

Magcargo with Desolate Land would make so much sense given its obscene Pokédex description lmao

[@CoralReaper707]

True. Although, sunflora with desolate land is just as (if not even more) ridiculous.

[@ensemble3647]

@@CoralReaper707 And get this, they didn't even touch sunflora's special attack, it was always like that. It just never came up because its defense is paper thin and it has 30 base speed.

[@RickRaptor105]

Giving Desolate Land instead of Drought to make it a weather remover instead of a sun overpowerer might be the most genius idea of the bunch

[@blubberfish]

To me it kind of clashes with the aesthetic of sunflora being a run of the mill grass-type you can see anywhere. Sure it might be more competitive, but it makes no sense and the same goes with hitmonlee with magic guard. The idea of rebalancing pokemon is fun because you're working withing the constraints of what's already there which forces you to get creative, but there's a fine line between proposing changes that make you go, "yeah that makes sense", to changes that just seem overkill or completely detached from the design of the original mon, like giving raticate a BST of 600 because you're trying to make every pokemon balanced regardless of lore.

[@Explohsin]

@@blubberfish I think this is just a what if to make every pokemon more viable and it’s just a big OP mess

[@skakee10]

@@blubberfish i mean I guess, but if everything had to make sense that'd be limiting to the ultimate goal of making underpowered pokemon fun. Like I personally can overlook lore for a project like this. Although personally if I was making it id just make abilities with different names but same functions so it makes a little more sense, like hitmonlee would still have an ability like magic guard but its called 'fighting spirit' or something like that

[@rainer_1137]

@@blubberfish I mean... That's the point? This has nothing to do with the lore of the games

[@thefloodwatch785]

@@blubberfish as if all the actual lore of mons makes sense...

[@et34t34fdf]

Levitate magnezone is something i've always wanted, so many resitances, few weaknesses.

[@showsister69]

It's insane how people can want shit like this and then say hazards and Baton Pass is what stops them from playing the game

[@spamtong.spamton8416]

It would be very fun to use, but horrible to play against.

[@CDELTA_]

@@showsister69 hazard are essential to the game play, it's known to any good player. mag with is only used to trap steel types, without levitate he's loses that and becomes a decent defensive mon. He's destroyed by any fire or fighting coverage, ie Body Press for corviknight per ex. Magnezone isn't instantly gonna win, EQ isn't the only thing that's been blocking him. Baton Pass though, needs specific moves and extreme precison/luck/pre-sight with moves like taunt/haze/roar on any teams which is easily stopped by magic bounce, mirror herb etc. And some parts of BP are straight up uncounterable. You can't consistently counter Speed Boost, and in this current generation there are way too many good boosting moves that would end up spiraling out of control. For example, Quiver Dance on most sleep mons, which is known to make VIVILLON win in Ubers.

[@martinwilches6583]

@@showsister69 dude, you are one angry gremlin. Log off

[@JesseTheG_]

Magneton used to have levitate so it's BS that magnezone doesn't

[@GoldGuard]

11:12 “We have Iron Bundle at home”

[@sleestacks]

11:11 no way they turned delibird into infernape

[@SlowRule]

no scald just makes me enjoy playing so much more

[@Zyrdrakyll]

Hey you'll love gen 9

[@mkv3542]

REAL

[@Rezzo64]

no Scald, no Stealth Rock, no Magic Guard (except for Hitmonlee who is the only Pokemon who will ever get MG), no Regenerator!

[@showsister69]

Ain't see scald all year in mainline pokemon. Try S/V :)

[@showsister69]

​@Rezzo64 scalds been gone, magic guard is barely distributed as is. If SR is what stops you from playing pokemon just say you're a charizard simp and use heavy duty boots

[@melikmourali2072]

20:44 I was wondering why you thought Talonflame canonically learned Rapid Spin in a previous video but now it makes sense lol

[@trickstergenie8194]

Honestly I think it'd be cool to see an Emerald Kaizo-esque ROM hack that uses Hoenn Gaiden. Imagine losing a Nuzlocke because you got swept by Glacia's Delibird

[@dayandere2669]

The problem with that would be implementing abilities that don't exist in that game

[@raikaru0]

@@dayandere2669 No it wouldn’t? Gen 3 hacking is the most advanced and there’s already a rom base that has all those abilities added plus dynamax and megas and z moves

[@thebestworst8002]

@@dayandere2669 radical red has everything

[@mastanvx]

@@dayandere2669 I've literally played a mod of Pokemon CRYSTAL that ADDs abilities and Mega Evolutions. You severely underestimate the power of Poke Modders.

[@christianlaringe1150]

​@@mastanvxname?

[@SilverScarletSpider]

Gen 4 OU would be just as fun as Gen 3 OU if they just ban the overcentralizing mechanics like Stealth Rocks.

[@astonclarke4572]

Congrats dude you revived a whole server. 👏

[@Jin-lp5lt]

"The Melee of" and "The PM of" are the new "The Dark Souls of"

[@gregorymirabella1423]

i'd love to see something like this for gen 1.

[@tehtayteh]

There are actually quite a few RBY mods! Kanto Expansion Pak adds every RBY-related pokemon added in a later game, as well as the non-rby types as well. It's really fun and my favourite mod. RBY Burgundy Version changes a ton of RBY mechanics and adds new pokemon and moves too. It's a community-based mod so every change is voted on by the playerbase. Also really fun.

[@Frog_Dogger]

Cloyster being pure Water makes so much more sense than the random Ice typing. What about Cloyster's design says "I'm an ice type"? Absolutely nothing as far as I can tell. Heck, Lapras hardly even looks like an Ice type either.

[@dankeykang8243]

Tbh, I don't need my ice types to look like a block of ice, just like I don't need my fire types to be flames. What about Arcanine says "fire"? Just that it's red? Adding a type because of the pokemons biome or lore is cool. Cloysters ice type is still random tho

[@marcoasturias8520]

Ye, irl bivalves like cloyster is a tropical animal, so not too icy

[@strangevol5264]

@@dankeykang8243Arcanine has like. Fire glands and stuff.

[@Manivilization]

i’m glad there’s no choice scarf i feel like scarf along with moves base powers being higher is definitely the thing that most separates gen 3 and prior with the later gens

[@QuestionableLogic_]

I was curious and looked up the changes and that Baton Pass nerf is wild

[@Pudcup]

What happend?

[@jaksida300]

@@Pudcup It deletes your account if you try passing a stat boost.

[@Rezzo64]

^ LOL. It removes positive stat boosts upon passing. Negative stat boosts and the usual other stuff like substitutes are still passed along.

[@showsister69]

It's not like BP is a real viable strategy vs anyone who's played pokemon more than 3 times lmao sorry there's a layer of tar over your brains

[@lock_checker4342]

​@@Rezzo64 good with wish passing?

[@asmontosborne3111]

I’d never heard of this but it’s so interesting! Is there any particular reason specific Pokémon were added? I assume that in the case of Mismagius, Gliscor, Kleavor, etc. it was because their pre-evos were available in Gen 3, but what about things like Jellicent? Were they picked because they could be fun and/or healthy additions to the meta?

[@jimothycool]

There are things called slates where people in the community submit Pokemon designs then we vote on which ones we wanna include. Sometimes you can only submit reworks of existing mons, sometimes only Future mons from a specific gen, etc. Pretty fun stuff

[@Luna-Lux]

⁠​​⁠​⁠ is dusknoir going to get in just to give dusclops eviolite

[@furiouscorgi6614]

​@@Luna-LuxLandorous-Therian isn't in Hoenn Gaiden, Dusknoir's power isn't needed

[@dinonadoop]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that magic guard makes hitmonlee immune to HJK recoil. I know it isn't quite as strong in gen 3 as it is now, but I'm pretty sure it's still stronger than brick break

[@DanielYuStar_Pachirisu_Feet]

Delibird became knock-off iron bundle

[@mechayoshi9250]

Ngl I was convinced for the longest time that the Magnemite line had levitate

[@dominic85]

no idea if you read these but truly these videos are so informative and relaxing to watch!! i love your content and you truly need more subs for this quality and how often you upload!! keep up the great work :)

[@mkv3542]

This looks mad sick

[@danf7411]

I fucking love drayano hacks even if they might not be super balanced. Its really fun to have delibird and sunflora become real threats. I want more of this

[@rajkanishu]

a metagame where froslass and hail are viable? count me in

[@showsister69]

Hail is currently viable and untested. You could be the person who makes hail a real weather in gen 9 BUT you'd rather complain about how you COULD use these things and never try

[@showsister69]

This is what happens when people stop PLAYING games themselves and vicariously play them through watching poketubers

[@malakimphoros2164]

​@@showsister69*snow

[@alexisreal]

@@showsister69 Take a chill pill

[@olivergro7105]

@@showsister69 what's wrong with you. Hail is absolutely not viable in gen 9. Abomasnow is garbage compared to pelipper and torkoal. Hail doesn't even boost ice type damage so chienpao doesn't benefit from it. Show me a single top100 player that got to this spot with hail spam.

[@sorenandreas2k]

i really wanna see BKC try to build for this meta

[@salsichareverso]

11:18 ah hell nah they made Gen 3 iron bundle 💀💀💀

[@tecul1]

too true

[@cristianotesta3027]

Jim, you grew a lot since I last saw you, keep up bringing ADV content to the world 👍

[@chadwick6857]

Wow Jimothy, your video came out and I've been able to ladder HG for the first time due to the spike in popularity. You must be very cool

[@Dionaea_floridensis]

Pokemon fans have been making pokemon better for so long now, this is yet another beautiful example

[@master_bdoof200]

any buffs for Aggron or Cacturne? this seems super interesting. I’ve been wanting to get back into Showdown, i used to play a lot of Nat Dex LC and Monotype but haven’t since Gen 9 and always felt bogged down by the multitude of choices and Tera. But i’ve been binging your Gen 3 OU videos and this also looks super fun and interesting to try

[@unilefi]

very cool presentation of the format, for sure i'll try it!!

[@gabrielalves303]

I've had this idea of an updated gen 1 gamemode where all the new mechanics (not sure about the battle gimmicks tbh), coverage, items, type/stat changes, regional forms (perhaps megas?) would be introduced and see how the meta would shift.

[@Charliezard7]

What Let’s Go should have been

[@supremeclamitas5053]

Have you heard of the Kanto Expansion Pack by Plague Von Karma? It might be a good starting point for your idea

[@dankaroos6055]

That's Radical Red

[@funninoriginal6054]

@@dankaroos6055 Radical red has pokemon from regions other than kanto, op is talking about keeping the kanto dex with regional forms and new mechanics in

[@sptflcrw8583]

That's just let's go lmfao

[@Ragna6765]

is there a pokemon with primordial sea as a parallel to sunflora?i kinda like the idea of raichu getting it for the non stab surf

[@lop0998]

damn bro this looks fun

[@ShadowXeldron]

I'm not a competitive player, so I value "making sense" over "viability." To that end, I don't see anything watery about Galarian Weezing. But... at least you could make the connection that it's producing water vapour, meanwhile there's absolutely nothing Fairy about it at first glance so I guess they somehow made it make 5% more sense? Anyway, I wonder if these tweaks have been modded into a real Gen 3 game yet.

[@maninthetrenchcoat5603]

Its tophats are two big funnels. They're basically a Steam Engine. Their signature move in SS is Strange Steam. It's a reach, but it makes sense

[@Tigmas258]

I feel like in might made more sense if it was poison steel instead

[@gamingweb1090]

This meta game sold me on sunflora Amazing video btw

[@TPLR15]

Why the hell does Dusclops gets Ice body tho? It feels like just giving random abilities to random pokemon because they wanted to

[@ArroganceClause]

Had no idea this existed. Thanks for sharing

[@ShreddedPizza]

So they turned Magnezone into Skarm accept it has a fighting weakness instead of an electric one

[@blubberfish]

this also buffs magnezone by giving it another important steel type for it to trap

[@DkKobaADV]

@@blubberfish zone doesnt have magnet pull, i assume you mean magneton(also golem alola is better atm for trapping zone)

[@blubberfish]

@@DkKobaADV so magnezone can't have the option of magnetpull anymore? truly a devil's bargain. magnezone finally gets to levitate like it's sprite suggests, but now is no longer magnetic

[@gretchling5012]

sunflora with desolate land is funny as fuck

[@thefloodwatch785]

I think it would be really cool if you did more videos on this! Very interesting

[@Nilsoop1998]

I really like the idea, I just really don't like that in gen 3 each type is only special or physical.

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

I consider pokemon to basically be fundamentally broken until gen 4 with the physical special split. There are so many design decisions that just make zero sense until they made the split

[@blubberfish]

@@TheThunderbirdRising Yeah, I don't really see how people can say gen 3 was the best gen for battling when the physical special split was just one more gen away. What issue due people have with gen 4 that can't be fixed with a few changes anyways? My theory is gen 3 had the biggest improvement in competitive pokemon compared to the previous gen which makes it seem that more impressive, as well as nostalgia for people who gen 3 was their childhood and now are at the age where they can dictate and lead the community.

[@luckylucas8596]

@@blubberfish The lack of physical/special split caused many Pokemon to result to strange coverage instead of STAB. For example, Ttar tends to use Brick Break instead of Crunch because dark is special. There are some cases though that Pokemon are incentivized to go mixed. Salamance sometimes does things like Dragon Dance, EQ, and Fire Blast to set up sweep and whomp 4x weaks like Scizor. It might be the case that the lack of physical/special split causes more variety and creativity in move sets and EV spreads. Granted, some Pokemon like Sneasel and Gengar get severely hurt by not having STABs conducive to their stat distribution. I ultimately think physical/special split was good for the game, but there were some cool things that the non-split meta had going for it.

[@blubberfish]

@@luckylucas8596 I can appreciate the fringe cases, but they only provide variety when it comes to the already overrepresented mons like the ones you described, while a better case for variety could be made by not crippling mons like crawdaunt, sharpedo, and hitmonchan. And how an entire typing in dark just gets utterly shafted kind of ruins it for me. It wasn't just sneasel, it was literally ever single dark type except for houndoom.

[@DkKobaADV]

@@blubberfish idk maybe the players understand that muh stab moves aren't the only aspect to look at and that typing being defensive towards other types is a good thing

[@AgentMikeyJ]

shout out HG one of the most fun metas and team building experiences you can have.

[@lompass379]

how did they choose the pokemon to be added? (I understand magnezone but jellyscent is strange)+

[@Rezzo64]

The mod previously held 'slates' in which people would submit their designs and we'd then vote as a group as to which ones we liked the most

[@dearozero3631]

What's the philosophy for this mod? Anyone know how they're deciding what changes to make?

[@Pudcup]

They close their eyes and pick 3 changes decided by A.I

[@pulledpork9778]

This is a great question, I’d like to see the guidelines the devs follow when adjusting around an actively growing meta

[@Rezzo64]

Hey! I've been leading this mod since early 2022; the philosophy of Hoenn Gaiden has actually evolved over time into what we have today in various steps. The initial startout of the mod interestingly was a place for gen 8 players fiddling with trying to make a metagame out of an old gen with new additions. Honestly, at this period it had a lot of changes crammed into a small space at once. Despite all the additions, the mod still (just about) felt like a gen 3 metagame, but it was very centralized around certain key aspects such as huge will-o-wisp, knock off and recover distribution. Over time, more ADV OU players such as myself started delivering feedback and progress for the direction of the mod, and piece-by-piece we ironed out things until we got to where we are today. Nowadays the mod's development is very gradual and is more focused around 'patch notes' (that being small tweaks, buffs & nerfs upon community feedback) rather than flushing in additions as the previous leaders had started out. The great thing about running a mod is that we are not constrained by tiering policy that most official tiers are, and I've been taking advantage of this by allowing the playerbase to suggest whatever they like towards improving the metagame to make it more fun. If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer them 🙂

[@mihe_7071]

@@Rezzo64 Would Aegislash be too good to fit in the roster?

[@Rezzo64]

@@mihe_7071 probably not without heavy modifications to it stats as it would be incredibly strong. There is also an abundance of ghost types in Hoenn Gaiden at the moment and adding Aegislash would likely unsettle the tier yet further as another strong ghost type.

[@memekeeper-gaming3552]

One thing I love but nobody is talking about is how cool Abomasnow is in this meta. It may not be a pseudo but it feels like one now. It's one of the two big bros of the meta. Abomasnow and Tyranitar threaten each other with super effective STAB. Hail is literally just sand but slightly different. The meta isn't just "Sand meta but you can run hail easily" no, it's "Sand AND Hail meta".

[@rkr3761]

what were cloyster's stats b4 nerf? wanna see why it was op

[@jimothycool]

can't find the exact stats but it had 150 base Def, and an increase to HP and Speed. You could outrun Jolly Tar with barely any EVs and dump the rest into Bulk. It's stats are still really good honestly but it was kind of absurd before

[@Rezzo64]

it had base 95 speed, base 110 special attack and a buff to HP, basically it was even bulker and faster than regular cloyster, the speed stat especially meant that it could outspeed a lot of stuff without investing many speed EVs

[@ClexYoshi]

On principle, I always feel awkward coming back to generations that are pre-Phys/Special split. I was incredibly happy seeing so many pokemon that lacked a niche because their STAB or coverage was types that were special but their stats wanted them to be physical so you were running a bunch of normal garbage or something and it was a right mess. That being said, I have no clue wtf I am doing in these gens as well, as I've never used Showdown before and tend to play my pokemon on original hardware. Going to the NeoSeeker forums and playing on Pokemon Battle Revolution is how I used to find my competition when I was playing Gen 4.

[@pepus777]

I would love to see gameplay of this format on your second channel

[@jimothycool]

Your wish is my command kzbin.info/www/bejne/eILQk2enipWLoa8

[@evanedwards4598]

I used electrode to fill a very specific niche on one gen 9 ou team. I was using e terrain quark drive, I had pincurchin lead, but if it died and I needed to set it again, I'd pull in terrain extender electrode hisui, with explosion in case it survives a turn

[@cellP8]

holy S! i just made a personal rom hack of platinum and applied a few of these changes to the pokemon, the parasect and cloyster changes were spot on

[@umwha]

Why does Dusclops get sadn veil and ice body? Sand veil I maybe understand because its a mummy, evoking egypt. But ice body? Because corpses are cold? But then why would it HEAL? Maybe if it had the evasion boost in hail, I may understand vaguely, but not healing in hail.

[@marcoasturias8520]

I guess because cold help preserve corpses. There's plenty of "natural" mummies than happen when something falls in a crevasse or body of water and is preserved for posterity thank to cold alone. ... I guess they simply didn't want to create an ice body equivalent foe sand, since sand is already good and doesn't exist in any gen.

[@umwha]

@@marcoasturias8520 Cold preserving bodies is true but cold dosent heal corpses. What they should have done is make an ability called 'Cold Body' which makes the pokemon resist Ice, take no hail damage (and maybe get the Def boost from hail, if that is implemented here). I just dont think ghosts should heal.

[@weavilethepro]

makes me happy seeing the kings of gen 3 OU (swampert and tyranitar) are still good in hoenn gaiden

[@calamorta]

I mean, that's the point of such a mod. You want to add new stuff but without making previous ones feel worthless.

[@ShadyHitchhiker]

What's the main design directive here that keeps it specifically a Gen3 thing? Other than not having the physical/special split nor stealth rocks, this mode seems to feature a ton of stuff from other generations

[@lydianlights]

stealth rock was a mistake

[@MidoseitoAkage]

At least Defog, rapid spin and Heavy-Duty Boots exist.

[@YoJoRockThaBeat]

The magnemite line should of had levitate from the very start.

[@littlebeasty5839]

some pokemon gotta learn to pick their balls up later, not early.

[@ironicallypineapple]

With gulp missile, there’s a chance of Cramorant surfacing with a Pikachu in its mouth, which is what will cause paralysis

[@linkthepringlesman3951]

Why does your Weezing-Galar have a -speed nature and 8 speed EVs? Are there some specific targets you need to both under and outspeed?

[@jimothycool]

woops that was a mistake, I used to have Explosion on it

[@videakias3000]

please talk about the 2 urshifus. I know that ursifu-single-strike has been banned from national dex but urshifu rapid strike hasn't. I am not playing national dex so I don't know the meta there. do you think that either of these 2 pokemon will be banned from OU? their access to swords dance is something to worry about.

[@lazu1i1]

the reason urshi-water wasnt banned in gen 8 was because of all the bulky water resist/neutrals around, alongside the prevalence of defensive playstyles. in the hyperoffensive metagame of gen 9, combined with tera, i expect it to be a relatively strong wallbreaker/cleaner with a scarf, and a sweeper with sd on speed control teams. single strike is either going to be genuinely fucking absurd and top tier, or just straight banned

[@lazu1i1]

now that toxapex is nerfed to shit, and ferrothorn is out of this dex, rapid may see more use

[@videakias3000]

@@lazu1i1 are you sure about the useifu sigle-strike getting banned? It couldn't be much worse than fighting-tera chien pao.

[@lazu1i1]

@@videakias3000 i'm not 100% sure it will be given powercreep and the hyper-offensive nature of the metagame, but... wicked blow + close combat = murder murder + choice band/bulk up = banworthy banworthy + swords dance = what the fuck what the fuck + terastallization = overpowered

[@lazu1i1]

@i can’t think of a name as a fighting type, yes 100%. but single has the dark type as well, and it brings a different kind of cleave to the table

[@themegagamer6086]

It's saying that the discord invite is expired and isn't eviolite allow? Like the gen 4 berries are in so why isn't gen 5's best item not allowed?

[@CoralReaper707]

Desolate Land sunflora is absolutely hilarious! It reminds me of beef cultist trying to submit something in another mod that had Crobat with *Delta Stream* Also, remember how good Ledian was in hoenn gaiden?

[@Flamelance_Accendo]

Why _doesn’t_ Magnezone get Levitate. It Levitates canonically..

[@Ghi102]

So many pokemon essentially fly but don't have levitate

[@surfingraichu7594]

I don’t know much about competitive but this looks pretty cool!

[@nickg5341]

Idk man, what makes this Gen 3 if it has items, mechanics, and Pokémon from later generations? It even just makes up brand new Pokémon pretty much.

[@RisingJericho]

Hey Jimothy, it's also worth noting that Desolate Land nullifies water attacks as well in Gen 6

[@joghnythegurue2710]

I appreciate they didn't just slap the best possible combination of moves, abilities and typing on every unviable Pokémon to force them to be good but actually thought about thematics of the Pokemon. Like giving the literal SUN flower p\Pokemon a SUN setting ability when previously it was just like every other chlorophyl Pokémon, except INFINITELY WORSE!

[@kenshiro8984]

wait, hitmonlee doesn't get hi jump kick? 27:40 seems like it'd have great use with magic guard

[@camgoodkicks]

Always would’ve been curious to see what would have happened if dark moves were physical and ghost moves were special. I actually really like the competitive metas before the physical/special split.

[@marcoasturias8520]

Ttar would have both stabs on its good attack. Gengar would become what it is in dpp onwards.

[@liljagsa]

Sorry I'm a little confused on something. Why is pursuit not as good if there are more ghost types?

[@jimothycool]

Pursuit on Tar specifically is less popular, in Gen 3 OU the only Ghost type was Gengar but these new Ghosts have more options to handle Tyranitar

[@Lemons28KZ]

Gulp Missile actually can cause paralysis. If you use Surf with over 50% health, it causes the defense drop when Gulp Missile triggers. If you use Surf with less than 50%, it will cause para. IDK what happens at exactly 50%

[@TheMissingLink2]

The idea is cool but some of the things they changed are just weird. Dusclops ice body??? G Weezing water type??? I get why, but it doesn't make sense fot the mon. The parasect type change is so-so. I get why they did it, but despite being a mind slave, it isn't dead. Alao, Gliscor should still have Poison Heal. If what's it's face can still have gulp missile, and sunflora gets desolate land, Poison heal is a fair ability to keep. Besides, there are plenty of ice moves out there to take care of it.

[@user-rn7wf7ry4s]

are there any viable mono choice band teams for gen 3?

[@bananaforscale1283]

Where can I see all the changes made for these Pokemon?

[@TheKringler]

>play this mod > use hail team > blizzard misses 3 times in a row in hail ( cant miss) think ill pass

[@jimothycool]

That's a Gen 3 mechanic, Blizzard was not buffed in Hail back then

[@zelz3011]

The Project M of Competitive Pok-mon. Hoenn Gaiden! ~ Weather Wars.

[@mattnic001]

What's the point of calling it hoenn if you have access to pokemon up to hisui?

[@chess_fella]

How good is Lickitung in this metagame?

[@jimothycool]

I'll suggest a Lickitung buff next time they want to add new stuff 😀

[@chess_fella]

I’ll check it out once Lickitung is viable.

[@christianmayonove6914]

People think this was the best? Many Pokémon didn’t even have a useable stab move?? Gen 4 competitive was so much better, the physical-special split was much needed for this game.

[@G-LukeJA]

You can tell someone has never played high level adv and dpp

[@DkKobaADV]

Me when I think STAB is the only good aspect of competitive play

[@christianmayonove6914]

@@DkKobaADV don’t be short sighted. You know that’s not what I’m talking about. Pokémon had entire stats and move pools deemed irrelevant bc a typing could only be special or physical. The physical special split brought in so much diversity to the game. And yes, I did play quite a bit of competitive DPP. Hard pass on RSE tho.

[@G-LukeJA]

@@christianmayonove6914 type split was amazing, but DPP doesn't rank as high simply cuz the power creep between adv and DPP was massive, which is why it largely seen as a bit inferior

[@enn1924]

2 words: stealth rocks

[@petalburgresident1541]

Considering you mentioned leftovers on Dusclops, does that mean Eviolite works differently in this mod?

[@petalburgresident1541]

Ahh, alright. I saw it in common items, but that could just be because of how Showdown shows items, rather than in the mod

[@Begeru]

5:56 Wait why is Pursuit bad against Ghosts? I don’t understand- it’s super effective right

[@VorseRaiderStrike]

Was part of the early-mid development of Hoenn Gaiden, makes me unreasonably happy to see videos on it Fire type Plusle forever!!!!!

[@TTVRainyMelee]

is there a discord group somewhere for gen 3 ou? is that what the hoenn gaiden discord is for?

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

That magnazone looks like a balance version of elekcross

[@ManOfUnknownWorth]

Crabominable is actually somewhat usable with Fur Coat; its mediocre Special Attack makes its Ice STAB not that great, though. Of course, one can also just use Beartic. Bisharp being a Special attacker feels weird.

[@ZeroIsMany]

This is surprisingly cool. Disliked the changes too much to ever play much of a pokemon game past gen 3, but sometimes really wish there was something new to play around with.

[@danielsemmelrock7808]

Glalie better have Levitate in this mod

[@propernoun2028]

i turned this on to fall asleep to and it worked

[@abarette_]

Wait, what's the lore behind Ice Body Dusclops

[@vibuma]

i mean its dead so i don't think there is a lot of body heat in it. also its commonly believed that ghost are so cold that touching one freezes you instantly.

[@sablesalt]

hey donut

[@jordanmynes2638]

Invite link in the description is expired, the one in the comments works though

[@geenemotiechicken1757]

Wait did I see pure power ledian? And what about slugma?

[@aleczitzelberger8123]

Watching this makes me want to learn how to mod Pokémon sapphire

[@DkKobaADV]

no shoutouts to plusle and minun 😪✊(unless I missed it) Also go play the format it's fun af

[@spiritblox1]

Protean Ledian. You’ve already won me over Edit: but seriously how do you play this

[@ronnieketchum1241]

Tge gen3 meta is beautiful. It has so much less less things to work with. Making everything super creative and interesting

[@Swordsman99k]

No physical/special split is an absolute dealbreaker.

[@SmithYorkinster]

Agree 100%. I don't know how can a meta without it be considered "Pokemon at it's best". Such a glaring issue that ruined so many pokemon by removing their STAB options.

[@jimothycool]

@@SmithYorkinster Every metagame of every competitive game is gonna have certain ideas that are strong where some Mons will thrive while others won't. E.G being weak to Rock is a death sentence in Gens 4-7 cause of Stealth Rock, which in a way is just as arbitrary as Mons having no STAB options to match their stats. Whatever a meta centres around doesn't matter as much as the Balance of the meta itself, how fun the common interactions are, how many viable playstyles there are, is there a varied set of Mons that are cool ETC . Gen 3 is just super balanced and all the Pokemon are really varied in how you can use them, there's a team style for everyone. Even though it's so old and there have been barely any Bans over the years, the metagame shifts constantly and the popular styles are always changing, creativity and skill is rewarded greatly and it's always very fun to watch High level games

[@DkKobaADV]

@@SmithYorkinster the split removed identity for a lot of types like water type having no physical weaknesses Mixed STAB in this gen would be more something that enables you to run mixed sets more effectively due to stab offsetting your lack of investment.

[@zate5355]

Nah. It curbs the power level well. Without it, this mod would have no point being gen 3.

[@finnshelton3815]

@@jimothycool I actually agree here, but do think that several pokemon might benefit from unique moves that do attack on the other side. Might just be a pipe dream for me though. Metagame looks fun, and I'll have to check it out

[@hessiankyojin]

Why is Dusknoir not here? Magnezone and newer mons are here, but not Dusclops' evolution?

[@michaeldwane4192]

Is the physical special split still a thing in this format?

[@DkKobaADV]

No, it's meant to mimic gen 3 global mechs fully. The lack of a split gives typing more solid identities that affect special vs physical interactions

[@of5606]

@@DkKobaADV shame, i was thinking of trying it out.

[@DkKobaADV]

@@of5606 try it anyways, you quickly will see phys special split isnt a big deal and just makes you adjust how you approach thinking about your options. Physical mons having specific set of options to use like slide eq brick break etc is ultimately healthier for the meta

[@blubberfish]

@@DkKobaADVFor a person already familiar with all the ins and outs of gen 3, the split might not seem like a big deal because all the options that get screwed by having no split already get discounted so the lack of a split is only noted when it enhances the game. But to an outsider looking in, the fact every dark type save t-tar and houndoom sucks, and most pokemon shouldn't even run their stab options feels kinda terrible. The low power level of the gen makes this a bit better since it means most mons even if unviable aren't completely unusable, but it's hard to not see the lack of a physical/special split as anything but a straight downgrade, like the lack of abilities was with gen 2.