The Most Controversial Strategy in Singles

[@FalseSwipeGaming]

Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: clcr.me/FalseSwipe_Oct22 and get a special starter pack 💥 Available only for the next 30 days!

[@D-S-G.]

*No.*

[@Pigggles]

Nein

[@PansyPops]

@@Pigggles Ten

[@allenkooken5742]

please please

[@Sporkyyyyyy]

yall really struggling out here arent you

[@SemiHypercube]

Baton Pass strats are either really satisfying when you do them or absolutely miserable once the opponent uses them

[@user1raf]

Beating them was satisfying too.

[@vam_ola]

@@user1raf Like using a max speed choice scarfed malamar to topsy turvy it.

[@user1raf]

@@vam_ola i once used espeon with psych up on a max boosted volcarona. Outsped and ko'd it with stored power. His salt was delicious.

[@theyammi437]

Its even more satisfying to effortlessly beating them

[@codonbyte]

Being on the wrong end of a baton pass sweep is like losing at Monopoly: you know you're screwed long before you actually lose, and you have to sit there helplessly and watch as your opponent gleefully finishes you off.

[@Dr.Deluxe]

"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Sid Meier (creator of the Civilization series). That quote is universal in gaming and definitely applies to Competitive Baton Pass teams

[@thesacredlobo]

I imagine the people that used these strategies would argue that winning is fun. And would probably bring up the old idiom that all's fair in love and war.

[@a2pabmb2]

I imagine said people are boring dickheads @@thesacredlobo

[@sleazymeezy]

I just got my first culture victory on civ 6. Only took about 2 years hahaha.

[@jacksonhoiland2664]

​@@thesacredlobowell, winning is fun. But the issue with the axiom is it shows a clean flaw in logic, because games are not war. The issue here is the assumption that because winning is fun you should ignore all other fun to win, and try to win in as simple and consistent a way as possible. This leads to the game being like a job and getting optimized around a way to win that is cheap and not fun for either player, and this style of gameplay for many makes even winning get boring as the game loses all other enjoyment in the pursuit of a cheap, hollow, victory that requires nothing more then time from both players.

[@thesacredlobo]

@@jacksonhoiland2664 - "because games are not war." To some they might as well be considering how many people are willing to cheat in order to win. "The issue here is the assumption that because winning is fun you should ignore all other fun to win" I imagine those employing this strategy on a regular basis really don't care about whether their opponent has fun or not. And for some people losing is so frustrating that it leads to them breaking their own property in frustration. There are more than a few videos on youtube of streamers losing their cool and smashing expensive keyboards and other devices. " try to win in as simple and consistent a way as possible" To be honest, I tend to prefer simple and consistent strategies since their less likely to fail. After all, a complicated strategy can go down the tubes rather easily. That's why it took me multiple tries to beat Whitney with just a level 17 Igglybuff and no items in Pokemon Gold. And yeah, there is footage of that on my channel if your interested. And the plan there wasn't even that complicated. "This leads to the game being like a job and getting optimized around a way to win that is cheap and not fun for either player," I don't know. The basic plan I have for certain games never really changes, but I still enjoy the build up phase to becoming unstoppable in stuff like Rome: Total War or Seven Kingdoms: Ancient Adversaries or the DS port of Legion that has the logo for the History channel stamped on it. About the only time I've found a simple plan boring is in those Yu-Gi-Oh! simulation games where I'd sometimes run inconsistent FTK strats. And that's because those decks just boil down to me basically playing solitaire until I win. Assuming I had the right cards in my hand to do so. Side Note: I only used these decks against the AI. So at least I was only frustrating myself.

[@BigKlingy]

Man, I remember when people brushed off full Baton Pass chains as an unviable gimmick. Also, Zapdos only gets Baton Pass because of XD, amazing how a spinoff-exclusive move did so much.

[@BlitZnGodzilla117]

I remember as a kid I read about Baton Pass in the FR/LG strategy guide and thought that was the stupidest move ever. How I've learned

[@magicball3201]

Another example of XD exclusive moves being good, Magmar got follow me I think. Somewhere in Gen V VGC, someone transferred a Magmar because of the move + flame body; I want to say it was a big name, can't remember; pretty sure in how good was Magmar/Magmortor video it's mentioned.

[@kittyspartan143]

I rose to the top of the smogon charts during the time when baton pass was considered a gimmick. I realized the strat was WAY better if you nixed the reciever Pokemon and just had 6 Pokemon that would chain boosts to each other. Good times!

[@BigKlingy]

@@kittyspartan143 Yeah I think part of why people brushed it off was teams used to use something like Octillery or Cradily as the "recipient", just because of Suction Cups.

[@BigKlingy]

@@magicball3201 Some Pokemon got lucky and got really good XD exclusive moves. The ones that got Helping Hand were also nice as back then it wasn't a tutor move. Sadly most got stuck with Refresh.

[@brandontherabboat4850]

You reference it so much in other videos, that I want to see one on Power Creep as a whole. What caused it, how it invalidated hundreds of Pokémon, and what old Pokémon did to keep up with it sounds like a really interesting topic to me. EDIT: I'd like to think I had a hand in this becoming reality.

[@IgnitedQuils]

It’d be interesting how Pokémon like Jolteon, Celebi and Starmie be examples of this, since they used to be in higher tiers but they’re in like NU-PU at this point.

[@samdilophosaur9787]

Its just how long running series get

[@ellachino4799]

I feel like this is a really vague topic so it would probably need a few videos about different aspects of power creep or something

[@13kevyaga31]

So many things cause power creep that it could be a whole series

[@nyahnyahson523]

My favorite pokemon move, Power Creep

[@roninwarriorsfan]

Well, now i know why Zapdos, Ninjask, Smeargal, Celebi & mawhile were placed on the thumbnail as the 5 pieces of Exodia

[@Eroil]

Did they mention mawhile at all?

[@jaschabull2365]

Ohhhh, just hit on me that was the reference in the thumbnail! Glad you noticed!

[@myheroandmadaralover2372]

@@jaschabull2365 yah i glad he did that and exdioa in master duel is is basicly batton pass that in my meta decks like sworrd soul i run burn cards that can get past it or in flloo i run earthbound immortls to basic do the same thing with direct atttackers

[@dieblauebedrohung]

Back when playing Gen4, I only saw the move's animation when an opponent used it, and thought to myself: "Why would you waste a move slot on switching out?!" Oh boi...

[@1peidu]

Gen 4 Ubers has probably the nicest and most helpful playerbase out of any tier on Showdown in my experience, because the people just reallly enjoy the tier and think that the metagame is cool, as do I. Which is why I was extremely surprised to see somebody getting absolutely cursed out for running double dance pass mew into dialga when I was just randomly spectating a game one day. It shows how hated BP is when all the Dracos in the world won't get you yelled at but one small pink cat will get you absolutely flamed.

[@Iinneus]

oh my GOD-- i love that story

[@pooppooper9033]

Because the Dragons are expected by the Ubers player base. Baton pass takes away the main form of counter play to boosting Pokemon.

[@Sunaki1000]

Not a Mouse?

[@vasimbelim]

Gen 4 was like balance of everything Power defense Priority moves Hazards Setup Perfect generation in my opinion

[@luisfreitas3416]

@@vasimbelim I wouldn't call the generation that introduced stealth rock "perfect". I liked it a lot overall, but SR is just ridiculous and should just cease existing.

[@thechillman4893]

It's fascinating on how a single move has become so infamous, that no one ever wanted it used ever again.

[@trevorweisberg8470]

I can hear stealth rocks nervously chuckling in the back.

[@diegosmurillo]

@@trevorweisberg8470 stealth rocks should have been banned waay long ago.

[@RinaShinomiyaVal]

@@diegosmurillo Disagree. Singles 6v6 battles are long as is

[@nbassasin8092]

@@diegosmurillo The only problem stealth rocks make are quadruple weak mons requiring full on teams that are anti hazard, hdb removed that but made stall mons worse. another reason why we need them, stall is already fat as it is, atleast make it take chip every turn they switch (which is 95% of their turns). So yeah, they are not that bad, actually good thing in high level competitive scene

[@supermaster2012]

That no one at smogon wanted it used ever again*. Smogon only represents a tiny minority, they're simply the most smooth brained autists out there.

[@TheHero136]

Belly Drum passing to Exploud with its Soundproof was one of the most terrifying ways to turn an NU Pokemon into something that makes Swords Dance Rayquaza look average in comparison.

[@QuintonHollinger]

Lets’s not get carried away now

[@alionfish5]

You could say that everytime Baton Pass got "neutered", it just Baton passed to a new Pokemon capable of abusing the new "neutered" BP Strategy.

[@yserareborn]

Smogon Community: “You don’t fight with honor!” Passer: “No, he did.” *points to a meteor mashed trainer*

[@boyoficeandfir3]

Excellent Game of Thrones reference 👌🏼

[@RandalfElVikingo]

Smogon is synonym with "fighting with no honour".

[@The_Moodi]

@@RandalfElVikingo smogon when pokemon is destroying whole OU: i sleep Smogon when light breeze touches their perfect stall teams: BAN IT TO UBERS, BAN IT NOW

[@ThePe5e]

@@The_Moodi I cant belive the meme that smogon is out here to ruin your fun and only loves stall is still around. Somehow it never dies out among lower ranked players. I guess its an easy scapegoat.

[@The_Moodi]

@@ThePe5e well After 10 games wich 7 contained stall i can see that the meme yet still is relevant.

[@IgnitedQuils]

I’m liking more of these videos where they analyze specific moves or themes. Not saying I don’t enjoy the “How GOOD was x ACTUALLY” videos, but they bring more variety. Speaking of Baton Pass, it is the first pivoting move and it makes sense as to why it got more restricted in later gens, due to more Pokemon having access to stat boosting moves.

[@雪者]

I kinda like these diverse vids

[@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214]

Me too but i hope they dont stop the "How Good X was", i wish they at least cover all Gen 1-5 mons

[@IgnitedQuils]

@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Waiting for all the Gen 2 videos to be done. There are a few left, and like to have Girafarig done next year.

[@lyingcorn]

@@IgnitedQuils I'd personally prefer a girafarig mid scarlet and violet

[@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214]

@@IgnitedQuils I think it would be better to wait for Gen 9 for the Girafarig episode since it is getting a Evolution

[@jdrmanmusiqking]

Its crazy how the most broken ability of all time, Moody, pairs perfectly with Baton Pass aka the most broken move of all time

[@petelee2477]

Give a white herb to the recipient and you are good to go

[@J242D]

@@petelee2477 lol imagine its unburden too

[@Raylunaire]

Moody isn't the most broken ability, that title goes to Shadow Tag

[@pooppooper9033]

@@Raylunaire Shadow tag was allowed in Ubers. It also wasn’t luck reliant and stall heavy.

[@jdrmanmusiqking]

@@Raylunaire To argue anything other than Moody being the most broken ability is pure nonsense. Moody makes Glalie and Bidoof Uber mons youre talking nonsense. Shadow tag ain't even close

[@bl0bbyb0i68]

Can I just say that these new thumbnails great? Like the artstyle is really cool and it actually has to do with the video topic.

[@taruniyer6788]

Dusty the Snowman is a superb artist!

[@dusty.butter]

THANKS LOL :D

[@IlDogeIslamico]

The Legendary Exodia the Forbidden One 👹

[@gesoocreesto1176]

Fun fact: in gen 3, when smeargle was first banned from using baton pass, people started using assist of all things. Since every mon on your team has a boosting move or sub/protect, assist was actually able to carry the chain since you call baton pass 50% of the time, and dont really risk anything the other 50%, which made it even more frustrating to both use and face

[@ShinyTillDawn]

I was surprised to see Assist banned in gen 5.

[@cyntheticconjurer]

@@ShinyTillDawn That was a different Assist trick, namely DiveCats. Your team is Prankster Liepard with Assist and Lagging Tail and five Pokemon that only know moves that can't be called by Assist and two-turn moves like Dig, Fly, Dive, Shadow/Phantom Force etc. - moves that make you untargetable turn 1, then hit turn 2. When you use Assist, Prankster gives it priority because Assist is a status move, so it likely moves before its opponent gets a chance to attack, Assist calls a two-turn move, and Liepard becomes untargetable. Then turn 2, because you have a Lagging Tail and aren't using a status move, you'll go after any opponent that's not using a move with reduced priority, so you likely won't get hit on the second turn either. Rinse and repeat until your opponent's team is dead.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

@@cyntheticconjurer dies to Surf, a niche move

[@furiouscorgi6614]

​@@ShinyTillDawnnot if I use Fly

[@heheheiamasupahstarslam5397]

​@@ShinyTillDawnblud hasn't played vgc AG

[@babybababofski7908]

The fear and dread I felt when I saw that one of the pokemon insurgence's elite 4 uses a full baton pass chain will always stay with me

[@joegoff1895]

Agreed, one of my Pokemon I built specifically just to beat Kayla and was useless for the rest

[@toannguyen1998]

I just use my Mega Gengar with Taunt TM to take care of them. Seeing half their team being useless against it is hilarious.

[@mashonem]

@@toannguyen1998 no one cares

[@pyther5019]

@@mashonem i care, nerd

[@mashonem]

@@pyther5019 *no one who matters cares

[@Bizzozeron]

you guys doing the mock battles for the footage is so good. Thank you so much for showing the gameplay examples during the video, its way more entertaining and its exciting to imagine even playing some of these older titles competitively. I never had the chance to really play the comp. environments for GBC/GBA back in the day even though i played those games.

[@Doctessa]

I was one of those honorable BP users back in gen 3-4, fighting the full chains was really annoying and unfun. Then once I saw Espeon getting Mirror Bounce I knew things were about to get really insane.

[@RandalfElVikingo]

The Golden Era: Weather Wars, Baton Pass+Mirror Bounce and no Fairy.

[@The_Moodi]

@@RandalfElVikingo Then the Tapu's fairy nation attacked while toxapex done thing wich he was the best at: stalled everything while switching out to use regenerator.

[@deltadevlin]

@@RandalfElVikingo Amen, these were my favorite competitive times in Pokémon. I really dislike that weather isn't permanent from abilities now.

[@RandalfElVikingo]

@@deltadevlin Yeah, what I loved the most is that anything was viable. I even used a Victrebeel in my sun team and it was fun. Also, people think Baton Pass was broken in that gen but that's why you use Prankster.

[@pooppooper9033]

@@RandalfElVikingo That was the least fun meta EVER.

[@darianclark3980]

Ahh the Baton Pass. Thought it would be covered in the "How GOOD was Ninjask Actually?" video, but yeah, makes sense to see the full history of Baton Pass!

[@magicball3201]

He mentioned in the gen III section he DID cover it in detail for Ninjask's video, especially gen III's version of full chain. Although that focused more on how ninjask started the loop and avoided dying then full chain effectiveness

[@ddgnp1057]

They also covered it in the Mr Mime one. Really they've discussed it to death at this point.

[@Qbe_Root]

Gen 9: Okay, hear me out: Substitute, and Baton Pass. In one move.

[@hollowlord8548]

Gen 10: okay, hear me out, substitute, baton pass, and dragon dance in one move.

[@ScarletMomiji]

Seems weird that everytime it was limited, the final nail in the coffin was a pokemon with Speed Boost... almost like that's an insanely busted ability when you have protect and substitute available lol

[@EdmacZ]

OU Mon: You can't defeat me. *Uses Baton Pass.* Smeargle: I know, but they can.

[@Ghi102]

As a mostly casual player, I always loved BP. I never did full BP chains though, usually 1 or 2 or with something like Ninjask. I understand why it was banned, but it was fun in low ELO!

[@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544]

I had a Lot and I mean a LOT of fun with sd BP mega blaziken in ubers until the fun police goons came knocking on My door

[@AceAviations2]

I feel that they took it too far, instead of banning the toxic elements they just banned it outright. Ruined one of my favorite 6th Gen teams who had a Mega Lopunny with Baton Pass purely as a pivot move.

[@SlitheringStevePhilips]

@@AceAviations2 Are you deaf or blind? Or both? Almost half the video was talking about trying to ban parts instead of the whole thing.

[@leaffinite2001]

​@AceAviations2 i mean lots of stipulations were made and then found to be too weak before a full ban was implemented

[@risel56]

With the recent reveal of Farigiraf, I can only imagine how absolutely broken it could potentially be with Baton Pass and Cud Chew, using Petaya/Salac Berry as a potential free Nasty Plot/Agility boost without wasting a move slot, and just regaining boosts with Recycle.

[@ultimapower6950]

Well baton pass would probably be banned long before that would be considered

[@risel56]

@@ultimapower6950 True, but I'm mostly referring to in-game competitive formats.

[@munchrai6396]

Really hope they don't do the same thing with King's Rock because it's really only Cloyster that's abusing it to any sort of broken extent

[@duckymomo7935]

Berries are actually strong items that they had to create a questionable ability to prevent their uses. I always thought unnerve could be useless but it might be broken since it prevents an entire class of held items. There’s only like 10 competitive held items: leftovers, focus sash, choice items, weakness policy and on occasion some of those gimmicky ones. The rest are berries

[@JohnCena-fr5ff]

@@munchrai6396 already banned in couple of gens

[@wanderlustwarrior]

For anyone who isn't aware, the thumbnail is a reference to the five Exodia cards from Yugioh, that game's first and original instant win condition. Once you got all five pieces together, it was literally unstoppable.

[@Cador2004]

Aaaand now Cyclizar gets both Baton Pass and Substitute combined into a single move in the form of Shed Tail. Depending on what buff moves it gets it either sets up and sheds or sheds into a pokemon to set up.

[@TheMirksta]

Cyclizar could easily be slow and frail though in which case it might actually be a fair move.

[@timmyreobed5043]

@@TheMirksta I sincerely doubt a Pokemon based off of a bike could ever be slow.

[@doubleace11554]

It passes Sub, but it's not confirmed to pass stats as well

[@doubleace11554]

@@TheMirksta it's pre-evo though, so it could use Eviolite for bulk

[@riverrapids438]

@@doubleace11554 ah yes Cyclizar who doesn't evolve into anything would surely be a good user of eviolite

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Glad the wait was worth it. A surprise for Monday. I was about to polish my rock, but I will wait until after this video.

[@egalomon]

Until then: just Bide or Harden

[@grunkleg.2934]

Some Baton Passers have used Rock Polish, yes

[@MrcreeperDXD777]

I was about to drum my belly before this video came

[@noahzerose]

I know that it might be too late, but I’d love to see a “How good was Gen 8 OU actually” video as a send off for this Gen. I think it would be interesting to look back at the new trends and strats that came from Gen 8.

[@nbassasin8092]

How bad was gen 8 OU actually There, fixed it

[@wafflecone6968]

Three words. Heavy duty boots.

[@sashasscribbles]

I really like this idea! Would be sweet~

[@hoothoot7122]

YOU SEE THESE TIMBS MY BOI?

[@belimvasim143]

Personally I think we should wait for 2-3 years for any potential meta changes

[@glacierwolf2155]

I think it's important to mention one more thing in regards to Baton Pass in Gen 7: Eevee's Exclusive Z-Move, Extreme Evoboost. Now, on its own, Extreme Evoboost is not really that big of a deal. +2 to every stat, but locked to a 1st stage Pokémon that doesn't have much coverage, it would likely be OHKOed before pulling it off, and it + Adaptability Last Resort is a gimmick at best. However, Eevee also had another trick up its sleeve: Baton Pass. One would think that, since Baton Pass is banned to Ubers, and Eevee would die to a mere sneeze of a Legendary, it wouldn't do that much damage, right? ...right? Now enter Krookodile and its signature move: Power Trip. Power Trip functions like Stored Power, but Dark-type and physical. The most Krookodile would accomplish with it is Rock Polish + Swords Dance, and using it in Ubers would get you laughed out of the tier. It just needed one element to go from joke to broke. As you can imagine, Extreme Evoboost + Power Trip utterly wrecked Ubers. Anything that didn't die to _base 220_ STAB Power Trip, further boosted by Moxie, died to +2 STAB Earthquake. It was way too much to handle. Thus, Baton Pass became the first move, that wasn't Double Team or OHKO moves, to be banned to Anything Goes.

[@helvetica6189]

eeveepass was really weird in that it was simultaneously a noobtrap that could just lose the game on turn 1 if you didnt know what you were doing (since a lot of new players just tried to evoboost turn 1 when eevee was an abysmal lead that needed support from tailwind or paralysis) and also a broken strat that got the move banned from ubers

[@AtlasNovack]

Well done once again! I am gonna keep suggesting this: what is in a role? What's a tank, what's a lead, what's a sweeper, what makes something good or bad? Have one for each role, make it into 1 big playlist at the end

[@ExcalibeonSwordofEeveelutions]

This could be very useful in explaining particularly specific roles, like the difference between a wall breaker and a stall breaker!

[@breloommaster12]

@@ExcalibeonSwordofEeveelutions stallbreakers use disruptive tactics like Taunt, Trick+Choice item, Magic Bounce, Substitute, Poison Heal, Shed Skin, etc.. to deny the stall team from performing their usual defensive procedures. Wallbreakers just go unga-bunga and crush the walls with sheer power.

[@prof.reuniclus21]

@@breloommaster12 conkeldurr go unga bunga flame orb guts 140 atk close combat on egg woman

[@CountofBleck]

Its a shame that Dry Passing was a casualty of the ban. In gen 6, WishPass sylveon was used as a wonderful pivot, and pyukumuku in gen 7 got a lot of his viability destroyed without it. Maybe one day it may return, but I sincerely doubt it.

[@nbassasin8092]

One easy fix is give all those mons drypass-like move

[@vannsylten6765]

It’s true, it’s very sad. Specs Espeon could pivot with it too.

[@Invisifly2]

@@nbassasin8092 A good idea, call it "Tag out" or something similar.

[@AceAviations2]

They took the ban too far, they should have banned it with deliberate stat boosts and trapping moves. This way you can dry-pass freely or pass Substitutes, also moves with a low chance of boosting stats (Meteor Mash) wouldn't be banned due to the unreliable nature of the boosts.

[@melcasucre2971]

At first i didnt understand why the miniature had yu gi oh cards, but now i get it : advanced and onward BP works exactly like a yu gi oh combo deck ! It might explain why i love the concept so much

[@Petsinwinter2]

Gorebyss and Huntail were Smashing and Passing over a decade before Markiplier

[@amateraceon5202]

My team comp’s sets have no attacks, Kaiba, but they do contain… the unstoppable Baton Pass!

[@mkhcfire9684]

IMPOSSIBLE

[@CArcherOwl]

**300 turns later** Kaiba: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@Elli-kc2yh]

I really enjoy these new style of videos! Keep up the great work!

[@andreivaldez2929]

Begone, bots.

[@andreivaldez2929]

Wish he'd make a playlist for these. Would be nice for some background noise, especially with the music from the games bringing back good memories - not sure who else played XD or Colosseum but they were really fun.

[@huyphan7825]

Ninjask: "I Baton Pass!" Opponent: "Please... No more..." Celebi: "I'LL HYUCKIN DO IT AGAIN"

[@ForeverLaxx]

I personally think "dry passing" should probably be allowed. It does the same thing U-Turn moves do, but without any chip damage (in return, you avoid Pursuit damage). You would just be forbidden from using moves, berries, or abilities that raise your stats on the Pokemon with BP. That should lock out the real problem, though it does make things more "complex" than just a straight BP ban.

[@theholy1191]

Looking at this, you should also do "How BROKEN was Dynamax actually?" Given the mechanic had some well warranted bans very fast almost akin to the issues Baton Pass has.

[@bloemkoolendestreetgang450]

Loving this recent style of videos (on top of the regular stuff ofc) Also the thumbnail art for these is amazing

[@jeffreyrowland6362]

I remember discovering baton pass as a kid and sweeping my friends teams at school all the while thinking I was a Pokémon master

[@shawnjavery]

This reminds me of a card in yugioh called Mystic Mine. For those not familiar with the game, its a spell card you only need to draw to activate, that basically stops your opponent from using any monsters or attacking with monsters so long as you don't use any monsters yourself. The thing is pretty much every deck in the game can only win by using monsters to deal damage directly. Also the answer most decks have to remove cards are monster effects, so there are a lot of situations where a player will simplify the game state to the point that they can stick a mystic mine down and then deck out the other player, since they would have gone through a lot of their deck in their turn one play and thus deck out first. The thing is there's a lot of risk in doing that, because you can't advance your own game state yourself, for most decks, under mystic mine, because you gotta keep the monsters you control to 0 if you want to ensure it stays in affect. Also any competent player is only going to remove the mystic mine when they are in a position to win that turn, so if you try to deck someone out with the card you'll lose. It becomes a game of chicken, because the person with the mine up has an incentive to play because the opponent is going to win when they have the out, but that also runs the risk of giving an out to the card in a situation the opponent couldn't have done so otherwise. People found out however, that like baton pass you can optimize the strategy to make it unreasonable to play against. A normal deck using the card means you get into games of chicken where the moment to try to play is important and people have to consider a lot of other things. But you can run cards that protect mine and other flood gate traps that constrain what the opponent is able to do, and it ends up being a total pain to deal with. Not necessarily good, because there's a lot of set up needed to get into a place where you can lock down your opponent entirely, but its definitely not something people wanna have to deal with.

[@Hesacon]

Video series idea: how each VGC season played out, which strategies dominated, how they changed as the season changed, how they influenced future mechanic changes, etc.

[@Wasted_AF]

With you guys putting so much effort into these “side vids”, I’d absolutely LOVE to see you continue the Type overview videos. Pretty sure ice was the only one that ever got it, and I’d like to see the history of how types performed throughout the generations

[@samwill7259]

I'd rather get baton passed 400 times in a row than ever deal with Para-fusion again in this life

[@Archer690Channel]

this could be worse, you could be trapped, leech seeded, in bad climate and against an enemy trying to flinch

[@fennecfoxfanatic]

oh klefki

[@thatsabruhmoment17]

Serene grace dunsparce is the future

[@nathanpearce323]

These types of videos are always my favourite on this channel. Hope you keep putting them out.

[@WereDictionary]

I just like how the background music for Gen 2 is this omnious ice cave music and once it goes to Gen 3, it changes to Miror B's cheerful (and terrifying) theme that just screams "let's have fun" and then when you introduce the full scale of Baton Pass degeneracy, its still Miror B but now he means business. Truly a fitting transition. (Mime's Soundproof would also block any incoming Perish Song that would go through substitutes and carry over with any baton pass. You showed that but I dont think you mentioned it in the narration until in the context of Gen 5 Celebi)

[@brunoreis4455]

5:37 that is the most scary thing I saw in my life, a snorlax jump kicking someone

[@noahwarp9]

I remember the first (and only) time I made a Baton Pass team. 12-year-old me had been playing a lot of VGC in Gen. V, and when I got to Gen. VI, I tried out Smogon singles. The literal first thing I discovered was Speed Boost Baton Pass Scolipede. I built a 3-Pokémon chain where Scolipede stacked up Speed and Defense boosts, passed to Drifblim for Special Defense and Substitute, then finally passed to Azumarill who would Belly Drum and sweep. It was totally unoptimized in terms of Baton Pass, but was still so unstoppable that I got bored of it and started building other teams.

[@justinvanderleest2233]

It’s crazy how this move has so many ways to get used no matter how many bans and limits where put on it.

[@jingles21]

That snorlax was out for blood with that mega drop kick 3:24

[@TheGamemonkey505]

I'm so happy to see you upload. I thought we had lost another week :(

[@GoldenNovaYugioh]

The thumbnail is sending me. I love that they used Card Games as a way to emphasize the 'combo' focus of the video. But Pokemon already has a TCG, and at some point, someone said 'No, Baton Pass is worse than anything the Pokemon TCG could make. It needs to look like something even more busted: Yu-Gi-Oh!'

[@fargrond9937]

I was always curious why it got banned when I first found competitive Pokemon. I quickly found out while using Ninjask in a playthrough lol

[@footballstats9127]

It s a dumb strategy in game

[@Labyrinth6000]

It’s just a bunch of nerds who can’t strategize and win fights. I’ve seen people actually win against them and the opponents entire team falls apart once the chain was broken.

[@rjante2236]

@@Labyrinth6000 Alright, I have a question. How do you go about countering a good Baton Pass team? Clearly you know how to shut it down.

[@breloommaster12]

@@Labyrinth6000 the big issue with fighting against Baton Pass is that matches can be decided by the teambuilding phase alone; the battle might as well be over if the defendant doesn't bring the right tech move. And even then it's not like Baton Pass teams can't respond against their counterplay since it's so telegraphed while they have a slew of options at their disposal. For example, your Haze Tapu Fini might just fail to stop the chain from going off anyway if it gets forced out by the Poison Jab Scolipede.

[@simpleman3898]

I like how in the beginning there was a sense of honor

[@Just_really_tired]

I love how false swipe used the pieces of Exodia as the cover, considering how having the baton pass team usually meant a win.

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

Making the thumbnail be pokemon on the format of yu-gi-oh cards makes is top teir trolling

[@reaflor91]

Ayo as a player that dabbles in both competitive Pokemon and YuGiOh, I LOVE this thumbnail

[@jareth4649]

The thumbnail for this video is beyond perfect

[@88porpoise]

I love baton pass. It is an awesome strategic option to add to an otherwise viable team. But, as noted in this video, teams built around it are just toxic in competition. Fun the first time or two but growing old, fast.

[@Labyrinth6000]

It’s not toxic if it gets them wins, it’s the toxic people who keep losing to them that makes them cry in protest to ban the move

[@randomguy6415]

@@Labyrinth6000 i dont think using BP or BP counter to avoid a instant lost with many teams being able to need many counters together is healthy to pokemon it is like to play single player story but if you dont use 6 specific mons you cant play the game it is toxic and uncompetitive

[@88porpoise]

@@Labyrinth6000 If it pushes people away from playing, it is toxic to the game. And things like Baton Pass chains were definitely doing that because most people didn't find them fun or interesting. That is why competitive format, tiers, and rulesets exist beyond the in-game rules, to ensure that most players enjoy the game and continue playing.

[@RSanchez111]

Colosseum Miror B was really the high point of Pokemon game music

[@ShinyTillDawn]

fax

[@Gradient___]

Pokemon XD Miror B > Colosseum Miror B IMO

[@meepswag35]

I think once gen 9 comes out it would be cool to see a gen 8 retrospective for both VGC and smogon

[@manoftruth0935]

So controversial, a fan game, Pokemon Insurgence, has an elite four member basing their entire team around it.

[@yarc9]

Baton bass is trash

[@N12015]

And even in a main game, BD/SP, another elite 4 member had a baton pass drifblim with unburden and minimize.

[@BrandonPlaysStuff]

Of all of my college lectures of Earth Science or Film and Media, False Swipe Gaming is my favorite professor.

[@PokemonTrainerOrange]

Mine too brandonplaysstuff, as fellow college students we understand

[@myvh773]

- And now we are back again, with Shed Tail this time. It can only pass a sub, but it does it incredibly well. - By the way, I love how Smeargle is more powerful than other cards in the thumbnail. Indeed, Smeargle is often very strong when all its potential is unlocked (Spore, Baton Pass, Moody, Geomancy, Shell Smash, Dark Void in doubles…). - I am amazed at Steelix not being OHKOed by Belly Drum Snorlax’s super effective Earthquake at 6:41.

[@NuclearNecro]

i have a good feeling that shed tail is gonna get banned as well which probably means the only real way we can see baton pass come back is if it's neutered to such a point where it can't pass anything to other team members

[@myvh773]

@@NuclearNecro Well, passing things to team mates is the very essence of Baton Pass. It can be used only as a switch move, but it was not its purpose in the first place.

[@TrulyAtrocious]

Cyclizar was indeed banned. It enabled too many sweepers to wreak havoc. I ran a cyclizar+4 sweepers+pivot team and I went undefeated all the way to high 1300

[@marioponce8482]

I guess you can say it is appropriate to talk about Baton Pass now as it is very scary to deal with if those boosts are passed on. Been loving this new type of content btw!

[@gespenst0083]

Topsy Turvy: I have no such weakness.

[@chaosgallade2331]

I like how Baton Pass is the equivalent to Yu-Gi-Oh’s Exodia: satisfying when it works, but needs a dedicated strategy to even work in the first place.

[@teddyhaines6613]

Funny thing about Exodia is that it's treated the opposite way as Baton Pass has been. Instead of players trying to protect its place in the metagame, they actually use it as a sort of warning system for the meta. If a card or strategy comes out that makes Exodia a viable meta deck, then that card is considered degenerate and will get banned or limited.

[@wraith.ferron]

I can tell from the pic that it'll be BP-chain teams, but other controversial strats included FEAR, the FEAR/Hail stall teams with the clefairy line, DiveCats, and, only controversial for how weird but effective it was, ChainComp.

[@DarttheLegend]

I remember back in Gen 4, Haydunn made a video where he swept ubers with a Weedle using a BP team.

[@sonic21blast88]

Love that while the pokemon are the pieces of exodia, they also have their own attributes that is or an equivalent to their type

[@ManofLowMoralFiber]

I was one of the first people to use Mean Look Baton Pass Umbreon all the way back in the GSC Advanced days. :D You're all welcome.

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

My anti-gimmick meme team in Anything Goes runs Infiltrator Chandelure with Clear Smog. I have never once lost to a Baton Pass team.

[@FamousXeno]

Really enjoying the alternative videos beyond the usual "How good was" series. Keep up the great work everyone at False Swipe Gaming!

[@votedthatoneguy]

I love that BKC writes these it's so neat

[@Kuroo39]

I miss climbing the gen5 ladder with smash pass as a kid. Imagine if this was legal in gen 9.

[@kotasone]

That thumbnail is a work of art.

[@joaoleste4682]

WHY ARE YOUR NEW THUMBNAILS SO BEAUTIFUL??????

[@Chucky_Martinez]

Yep, I knew it, Substitute Baton Pass. The bane of everyone's existence, including mine

[@Labyrinth6000]

It’s a great move, Ive seen people break apart an entire team when their BP strategy failed.

[@irbest6148]

I always wondered why I never saw Baton Pass strats in competitive videos. This makes perfect sense

[@Pockeio]

I'm really liking the newer videos about general competitive pokemon, it's something most people on the channel would be interested in, whereas if someone didn't care about a specific pokemon, they might not watch the episode for the How Good Was Actually series. I also think the thumbnails should be modernized somehow for the How Good Was Actually series, because they look outdated compared to the digital art thumbnails for these types of videos.

[@UrgentForce]

Anything in Pokémon: *exists* Smogon: waaaah waaaah must ban waaaah waaah

[@KimFareseed]

I don't know why, but Exodia looks different from what I remember. Must be age catching up with me.

[@charlesvattimo4674]

I don’t think there’s anything more satisfying to experience on God’s green Earth than successfully using topsy-turvy on a setup sweeper after the opponent had used BP to stack the likes of Minimize, stockpile, dragon dance, etc. Bonus points if you then one shot that would be sweeper, then be met with a “connection error”.

[@paulnewton2284]

A lot of the bans were "no passing speed alongside another stat," but why not just "no passing speed, period?"

[@TNinja0]

When I learned of Baton Pass as a kid in Ruby Sapphire, my first thought was Ninjask stat stacking, and then Baton Pass to Shedninja. Then spam Fury Cutter It was an interesting experience.

[@kazekamiha]

Baton Pass: The killer rabbit of tactics.

[@cherrycardoza405]

Such a good thumbnail art. Had me chortling in an unladylike fashion.

[@Bloopadoop124]

I don't really play competitive Pokemon or anything like that but these videos are are my favorite of your channel keep up the work👍

[@cornifsh]

@Not gonna lie Thank you ive always wanted to Make Air Fryer Potato Wedges Easy and Simple

[@LightGreenCorona]

Make BP -1 priority and -1 Def and -1 SpD and add a "Vaporeon is getting ready to hand over" . Probably also add handing over status conditions.

[@yuvalwh]

Batton pass was a menace wow, one of the most favorable and/or hated strategies ever

[@LS-gc8bj]

Makes a video about the most infuriating tactic in pokemon, gets sponsored by the most infuriating sponsor on youtube.

[@machoke333]

Loving the quality of these videos

[@Akatsukileader9]

When I was a kid playing GSC, I always thought Baton Pass was a stupid move whenever I saw it used, mostly by Koga at the Elite Four. "Wow it makes you switch pokemon, I can do that from the menu lol"

[@nicholasschmidt2864]

25:44 is the one sentence summary of this (excellent) video: some Pokemon were not meant to have certain stats boosted, let alone other boosts like a free substitute and still holding a Choice item. Similar to why Dynamax was banned in singles with little argument.

[@awkwardbirb5710]

This does make me ponder a bit. There's a Touhou Project fangame based on Pokemon mechanics, and though I'm not versed on it's competitive meta, it seems that while Baton Pass is still strong when it goes off, it's a lot harder to set up. Notably, Topsy-Turvy is on more mons (albeit also blocked by Soundproof) and the only mon with Magic Bounce + Baton Pass is effectively Shedinja (as in 1 HP base stat. And picking Magic Bounce means giving up Wonder Guard.) There's also two mons with unique abilities, one that's Contrary, but for your opponent, and another that if a foe's stat changes, so does the user.

[@darkness74185]

at this point just make a BU (Baton Used) where not only is baton pass allowed but it's required on all 6 mons, if you can't stop the chaos might as well join it

[@ShinyTillDawn]

I'd love to see it.

[@kobitz9001]

As a BP main, I appreciate this video.

[@stellunablaze9291]

You've covered Stealth Rock, but what about Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web? I'd like to see more videos about entry hazards.

[@beatsblack]

BKC has a short series on spikes’ impact in gen2 and 3, so that might worth watching if you’re interested.

[@angel1748]

The XD Gale of Darkness sound track is the best Pokemon soundtrack of all time.