The Prophecies Are The Problem, Not the Solution | ASoIaF & HotD Analysis and Theory

[@yggdrasil2]

I honestly thought it was a stroke of genius of the HOTD writers to make the conflict more centered around prophecy. The idea of a family tearing itself and a continent apart...all over who gets to save the world has a lot of brilliant irony.

[@heathenpride7931]

I suspect George is behind that. When we eventually get Summerhall I BET it will be Aegon listening to prophecy that did it. George always disliked prophecy and I think he’s using the Targaryen dynasty to showcase why.

[@CLCHRD]

love the fact that even 2022 new content creator come up with new ideas on asoiaf

[@SephyStabbity]

i'm not gonna lie, i listen to almost all the theory asoiaf youtubers and even though you're new, i feel like you're the first one i've heard who's explicitly commented how utterly ridiculous aegon's "solution" to his prophecy was, and subsequent targs following his illustrious example. this was a very interesting video, looking forward to more from you!

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Thanks! As for the prophecies I have a beef with them, not gonna lie. Because, I would find it extremely stupid for the solution to be the prophecy/dreams, when from book one, we are told, multiple times, that prophecies cannot be trusted. Thanks again, happy that you enjoyed the video.

[@Stargeek2006]

"Make love not war, just not with your siblings."

[@VukoSrach]

This is the most brilliant explanation of the prophecy plot. Greetings from Kyiv, UA.

[@theduxabides9274]

"Imma end this man's whole career." - Aegon the Conqueror @ his future successors

[@aweeks062]

Yay!!! A new ASOIAF channel! I love getting into the book lore and while recaps of episodes are great, I have been missing ASOIAF content! Subbed and hit the bell!

[@tonyantony6110]

It's the literary trope. The prophecy that might not be fulfilled if someone didn't try to stop it... It happens all over...

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

I would love to delve into the Lovecraftian lore in ASOIAF. It will be fascinating

[@d.m.collins1501]

You should do a whole video just expanding on the crab thing. That's a really unique insight into how death and the ocean work on Planetos. I'd love to hear more parts of the novels similar to the House Borrell sigil, where crabs show up. (Side note: wouldn't it be interesting to learn the sigils of the other two houses on the Three Sisters? House Longthorpe of Longsister and House Torrent of Littlesister may end up having rather Lovecraftian imagery of their own).

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I am thinking about doing something like that actually, bc Three Sisters have some very weird things going on. And about the crabs, another sigil is that of house Celtigar. Celtigars have crabs on their sigil, are valyrians that came way before the Targaryens and allegedly have a magical horn that summons krakens, so something is going on.

[@alexandergangaware429]

@@CompanyOfTheCat The arthropods are all linked with ice (like the ice spiders that may or may not actually exist), and scaled creatures like dragons and fish are fire. Hence, the feud between Crab King and the Old Man of the River, or the lost city of Lyber, with its endless war between the acolytes of the spider goddess and the sperpent god. Wolves might be fire too, or maybe both, I'm less certain

[@eric2500]

"Everybody must put aside ego and greed and sacrifice something to make the world a better place ... one person cannot save the world!.. Make love, not war, just not with your siblings!" *That's just about the best advice (for almost any situation) that I have ever heard!* thanks, Cat!

[@yggdrasil2]

I would love to see a video delving more into the Lovecraftian aspects of the ASOIAF lore. One thing I hear strangely few people mention is that Euron is metaphorically trying to create Cthulhu. A wedding between a dragon and a kraken would ostensibly create something that looks like Cthulhu lol!

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Yes! And it's not the only one, at first I was ok we have some names, but after thinking about it we have way more than that.

[@Texmechs]

I'm on the fence about Viserys being a dreamer. He said that he only had that dream about a son one time. Patchface, Helena, even Mel see visions or have dreams constantly. I love that Mel in the books is just guessing.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Dude, Mel in the books is sooooo bad, it's hilarious. I would disagree though that Mel has dreams like Patch and Helaena, she is constantly do blood sacrifices, I don't think she just has dreams/prophecies.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Yeah, viserys one dream is not the same as being a Dreamer. Everyone and their mother had one dream as it feels. Even beside Dany and Jon Jaime would be a Dreamer if we go by that. Like Jojen says he is not a greenseer, just a boy with dreams, there is a destinction that only after a certain threshold of power is past, the words starts to apply. Patchface, the ghost of highheart, daerron the drunk, Jon the fiddler, deanys the Dreamer, Helena and Mel all have frequent visions. Those are not the same thing.

[@SingingSealRiana]

​@@CompanyOfTheCat however bad Mel is in interpreting her visions, does not change she has them frequently. Jon the fiddler interpreted his vision also drasticly wrong, but it still came true

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@SingingSealRiana I still think Mel's visions are, mostly, because of the blood sacrifices. She has visions in the flames and she is pushing for more, she is burning people way to often and not only. Helaena and Patch don't do that, along with the rest you mentioned. They have weird visions and dreams on their own.

[@tesspulido]

I love your analysis! The significance of prophecy AND the sober reminders about how to handle them. Plus all the other info. Thanks and keep it up! ❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥

[@llyanel6093]

You are SO underrated! And the number of subscribers/likes is criminally low! :D I am sorry, I just think your content deserves more recognition.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Oooh thanks a lot! Its a relatively new channel, so I think/hope it will go around. Tbh I just wanted a place to put out years of theories 😂 But I am very happy you guys enjoying them.

[@llyanel6093]

@@CompanyOfTheCat wow, so I see you indeed put a lot of work and thought into these theories - and it shows! That is also why I think you should (and will, ofc) be more and more acknowledged☺

[@cathouseboo]

Hey all these new ASOIAF channels popped up after HOD came out. Of all these you have substance and I will be watching. I wish you luck and hope you get big on here.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Thaaaanks! I think after HotD all of us were like "oh we have thoughts, we have opinions"

[@ratgirl34]

I would love to hear our take on the Prophecies we struggle to translate. Specifically Patchface. I gave a try at inverting some of what he says and trying to translate it that way and I think he actually talks a lot about the Lands of Always Winter. ‘Under the Sea no one wears hats.’ Seems random and silly, but we all wear many hats. Or labels as we prefer to call them now a days. If nobody wears hats, then they have no identity. I think it’s a reference to a loss of identity among the Others, or at least their wights. ‘Here we eat fish, under the sea the fish eat us.’ As you pointed out crabs are usually credited as being the seas scavengers. But, the dead can be thought of as clamy, cold and maybe even fishy. ‘Here we eat the dead, in the lands of always winter the dead eat us.’

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Hmmm, I think many of Patchafe's prophecies are full-on Pythia, you can give more than one meaning and they still fit. The one about the hats, the first thought I had was, that people try to claim a crown, but in the end, it doesn't matter, because the long night is coming. I think the one that talks about mermen riding on seahorses, is talking about the Manderlys helping and I think that Aurane may help them actually because he has the royal fleet. It is about the sigils. The one about the white crow is about the coming of the winter, but maybe about Jon too. In general, I think the under the sea is his perspective of some sort, how you see things while you are drowning and looking up.

[@ratgirl34]

@@CompanyOfTheCat That makes sense. If any character can say something and have it mean many things it would be him. I haven’t made it to the mermen on sea horses on my second reading yet, and this is the reading where I’m marking pages and writing notes lol My first reading I 100% agree with you, but I noticed that it could also apply to Dany when she takes Meereen. She and her people got onto three boats, they went into the sea and out again, then the first thing through the gates of Meereen was a Jesters head made from the figurehead of one of the ships they rode. So, now I’m torn between the possibilities. That’s sort of how I see the under the sea bit too, like it’s a filter that needs to be accounted for before we can understand what he’s saying.

[@laurenanderson61]

New to your channel and I love it! Also yes, PLEASE do a Lovecraftian Ice and Fire video.

[@MiraArrr]

Also, autism is a disorder of the nervous system (either hyper or hypo sensitive). So, if prophetic dreams are a sixth sense, it stands to reason that an autistic person would be more tuned in (source: I’m autistic)

[@okamimemos1716]

Hell yeah a Lovecraft video would go off

[@Mj_Jetson]

About Jaehaerys I.... im not too sure he wasn't obsessed with prophecy, or that he was a super great king. His solution to the "faith doesn't like incest" problem was to spread valyrianSupremecistPropogadna: kinda hard to take the historical narrative about him at face value when it says he was really good at crafting propognada. in general, his actions seem to have suspiscious parallels to aegon iv's actions, that the text seems to gloss over. Also, he was a nerd who decided to train to become a great warrior: Every morning Jaehaerys trained with them in the castle yard, shouting at them to come at him harder, to press him, harry him, and attack him in every way they knew. From sunrise till noon he worked with them, honing his skills with sword and spear and mace and axe whilst his new queen looked on. (fire and blood) this seems suspiciously similar to Rhaegar: "Until one day Prince Rhaegar found something in his scrolls that changed him. No one knows what it might have been, only that the boy suddenly appeared early one morning in the yard as the knights were donning their steel. He walked up to Ser Willem Darry, the master-at-arms, and said, 'I will require sword and armor. It seems I must be a warrior.'" (Daenerys i ASoS) if Rhaegar's actions were prophecy-driven, it kinda seems like Jaehaerys' actions were as well? im wondering if jaehaerys had a similar opinion as viserys did at the start of the show (assuming that prophecy and viserys' interpretation of it are accurate to grrm's conception). like, its gotta be a son, it cant be a daughter, and that's why jaehaerys passed over rhaenys when aemon died?

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Jaehaerys is a little on the blind the one eyed. He had the same fixation and I believe this is the reason he didn't want his daughters on the throne, because it wouldn't be sure they will be able to pass the name etc etc. But he did handle the matter way better, like even if not the best, he was leagues beyond the others kings. He tried to learn about his people and help them, traveled a lot to meet them and even his queen was one of the few that were loved by the smallfolk and she cared for them.

[@Ilargizuri]

I really love it when people end such Videos when they say "It is not about one Person"! Right! Even Westeros has such a Legend where it is stated that only together someone can defeat the Enemy, in our Case the threats of Fire and Ice and Euron. The Last Hero, the Old Nan tells it to Bran in the very first Book. It is about a Group of Seven heroes who go out to find the Children of the Forest to end the long Night. Only one survives and finds the Children and together they end the long Night. Because of that, all the time we hear something about a Creature with 3 Heads or a Creature that is 3 in One I scream at the Books or the Screen: Guys that is the Problem, NOT THE SOLUTION! As Readers, we can see the Heros in the Story because if we find the Problem, we can also see in Martin's Work which Characters he chose for the Solution. But that is US the Readers, not Cersei or Daenerys. I am working on a Theory to make my Point. I am just not sure I make my point clear.🤔

[@bada5h231]

I just found your chaneel and you make amazing videos. Keep up the amazing work. BTW you should ABSOLUTLY make a video of all the references and illusions to H.P. Lovecrafts mythos in ASOIAF.

[@melanth093]

Re Jaehaerys , i think its also significant that Alysanne seems to have approached Aegon's prophecy in a practical way. That is, not believing any of her children to be the prophesised One, but focusing on the coming threat from the far north, and giving attention and resources to the Watch.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Jaehaerys biggest mistake as far as the prophecy goes I think it's their daughters actually. It seems like he was very much fixated on the word prince as well and didn't want his daughters or female heirs in general to inherit the throne. That being said Alisanne really didn't like the wall and was very uncomfortable with what was going on in Nightfort and the Wall, because Silverwing really was distressed, indeed.

[@melanth093]

Yes, and that attitude toward his daughters is related to the founding sin of his entire reign, which was his de facto usurpation of Rhaena. For all the good he did Westeros, that usurpation and his later rejection of Rhaenys as heir (following her father's death) in favour of Baelon really laid the foundations for the Dance. And you're absolutely right that it makes sense to imagine his fixation on the masculinity of the 'prince' as motivating these disastrous choices - in addition to simple misogyny!

[@InfamousB9]

Nice to see new,fresh looking at ASoIaF theories,its clear that you have knowledge about this,smart,brilliant,out of box thinking,new subscriber here👋👋👋👍👍

[@lordt-dawgsen1413]

Όμορφη προφορά! Love your videos pls keep going!

[@tierfreund780]

Great Video I absolutely agree that prophecy is the problem and peace is the solution. the idea that Jon and Dany defeating (possibly driving to extinction?) the others is some sort of positive outcome is rediculous.

[@alexandergangaware429]

The Others are people too. Just, you know, ice people, who can't seem to reproduce on their own, so need to steal our sons. Hence, the Boltons and Umbers and Skagosi and "certain of the Mountain Clans" practice of the First Night, in order to maintain the terms of The Pact. Oh, and Craster too

[@jessesturgeon5327]

A Lovecraft video would be cool. Unfortunately I've never read those books, but I've heard it influenced a lot of TWOIAF

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Ι was thinking doing them in parts, so I can explain more. Bc I imagine there are others that haven't read or they are not very deep into hpl.

[@chadbailey3623]

Brilliantly done!

[@tylerberman7527]

in fairness, although trying to stop a prophecy tends to make it happen, going with the prophecy also makes it happen. i mean this is why the dragons and the Targaryen dynasty survived, because of prophecy, so it makes sense that they'd still have such belief in them because it saved them

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I agree, prophecies will come true, this is the concept. But as I said in the video, the less you care about it and you just try your best, things tend to be better in the meantime. And the opposite, the more you try to prevent it or make it come true, things go worse and worse with each decision. I think a reason why Targaryens didn't die in the doom, it's the fact that they left and didn't get involved at all or try to stop the doom. They didn't have a savior complex.

[@tylerberman7527]

@@CompanyOfTheCat It seems to have been prophecy that they'd survive is my best guess, and yeah the best way to stop a prophecy, is to pretend it doesnt exist, bury it and make everyone forget it.

[@josephrizzo3738]

Liked and subscribed can't wait to check out your other videos and am stoked for the Lovecraft episode

[@riva1101]

now THIS is what i call a rant!

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I ate

[@mrittikmukherjee9324]

Beautiful really like you take on the entire theory I love your voice just make my evening

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@mrittikmukherjee9324 thank you!

[@nidohime6233]

Aren't the Celtigars also have crabs on their banner? Is a house that wasn't seeing much in both books and TV series but it might still have a big role.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

They do, but I keep them for a video that I have in mind about the horns. Plus, one reason for the crabs for the I think is the fact that they are greedy, rich and money hungry.

[@sinthoras1917]

You are correct, but I do think it's only to be expected for prophecies to be acted upon, it's like any other kind of vague but definite knowledge

[@generalvague5741]

That moment when someone says something smart and you stop for a moment and realize they actually said something smart

[@afreyinthesnow9015]

Good work

[@Mj_Jetson]

thoughts on the prophecies that aren't really prophecies? recently rereading the mystery knight, and it struck how awfully convenient it was for bloodraven that daemon ii put all his hopes on that egg, and how bloodraven happened to be able to amass an army nearby. bloodraven has a dream-related reputation at that point already. also the solution to the prophecy being "the egg was a metaphor for prince egg becoming more assertive" is just soooo lame... it seems pretty strongly hinted that the prophecy was fake, contrived by bloodraven so that he could quash the rebellion really neatly. But then daemon ii's other prophetic dreams (his older brothers dying, dunk becoming a kingsguard) probably didnt come from bloodraven (maynard plumm doesn't seem to know who dunk is when they first meet, but mustve heard dunk and egg arguing on their first night at whitewalls about egg's bloody lip or something, cuz the next day he starts urging dunk to leave). ...the whole situation implies that these prophetic dreams are coming from different places, and some of them are fabricated my characters in story. that makes a lot of other prophetic stuff suspiscious... like, all/most of the red wedding visions occur after the red wedding has started to be planned... so is it genuinely prophetic, or is someone just spying on the schemers with glass candles or something and accidentally broadcasting their snoopings as visions to the Undying/ghost of high heart/patchface? idk, there's so much emphasis on free will in asoiaf, as well as on political schemes that it feels like there has to b very little genuine, truly inevitable prophecy. melara hetherspoon had the right of it: a forgotten prophecy can't come true

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I think the bloodraven thingy wasn't a dream, he was skinchanger a very strong one and he could get in the animal that every place have, more than one. I think he really didn't have a dream or a vision about that.

[@maxgrozema1093]

What about Clarence and Dick Crabb? How do they tie in with this? Except for Dick being a trickster and someone that loves telling stories, which might be an Anansi reference.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

As I said in another video, I think Clarence was a real person at some point and his witch wife, like most magical helper women we see all around, was assisting him. Visions, the head for his counsel and not only. As for the other crabs in the story, the Borells, I believe are from the same batch as the ironborn and not First Men. I put both these examples in other videos because they fit better thematically I think, idk.

[@maxgrozema1093]

@@CompanyOfTheCat I really like your takes on the story btw!

[@Dr.waffles1101]

Neat video.

[@Ash.Crow.Goddess]

Love LML, AKA: David Beers.

[@DukeDukeGo]

Spider spin thread like the Morai or Norns spin the thread of destiny

[@jduke6793]

King Baelor was mad? Nah he was blessed by the seven who are one! He was going to ban targshit exceptionalism, restore order to westeros. But his uncle and cousin murdered him, truly a tragedy 😂

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

King Baelor was invested in every person's virginity, promoted chastity belts, and was praying over an egg along with playing with snake poison 😂 Was he really that ok?

[@jduke6793]

@@CompanyOfTheCat and he spurned women, keeping their tempting ways far from his holy body. Baelor the Based is his true title.

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

I think the visions are a form of timetravel.

[@MiraArrr]

“Make love, not war. Just not with your siblings” is one of my favorite lines ever

[@AzkuulaKtaktu]

Viserys' dream was 200% accurate (applying to both Baelon and Aegon)

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

They were, but the moment they start to apply meaning they loose the accuracy. This is the trick with prophecies, it is accurate as long as you keep it vague. For an in universe person, like Aemma, Viserys' dream was not accurate, it was actually the opposite. We know that what he saw is about the war, but we are outsiders that we already know the story, so it doesn't make the dream accurate.

[@AzkuulaKtaktu]

@@CompanyOfTheCat the dream is accurate. The dreamer is mistaken

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@AzkuulaKtaktu Yes, but does it matter? The part of the prophecy that matters is the way you read into it, not what you saw. If Helaena and Patch gave meaning they wouldn't be accurate either, bc prophecies are self-fulfilling, always. This is the whole concept of a prophecy. It is accurate by not being accurate. The more you try to explain it the less accurate it is.

[@alialmuhanna4938]

Intriguing. However, Jaehaerys established “Targaryen Exceptionalism”, or “Supremacy” you might say, in the books. So he still viewed himself and his family as above others. And he’s considered “good” by the Citadel, an organization that actively hates prophecy, dragons, magic. So they may be trying to paint him in a favorable light because he did things they liked.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

It is obvious that the Citadel doesn't know about the prophecy though, not even every member of the family knows about it. I think the reason both the Citadel and the Faith were ok with Viserys is, bc of his close relationship with Oldtown and the Hightowers, the people that funded and hosted both of these organisations. His council was taking many decisions and the small council was heavily influenced by Otto. I doubt this was about the prophecy at all, tbh.

[@constantinetranos2225]

Η ελληνική χροιά φαίνεται από την τόσο καθαρή αποδώσει των αγγλικών. Ιδιαίτερα στοχαστικό GOT βίντεο. Θεωρώ πολύ πιθανόν η εισβολή των White Walkers να μην ήταν αναπόφευκτη, αλλά να ένιωσαν απειλή από τις εξωφρενικές δράσεις των Targaryen για να εκπληρώσουν την προφητεία, οπότε εισβάλλουν για να προστατεύσουν το είδος τους.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Η ελληνική προφορά δεν κρύβεται. Νομίζω ότι το long night γίνεται triggered από διάφορα πράγματα (κομήτης, άτομα με άλλες προφητείες όπως η Μελ και ο Γιουρον κλπ κλπ) και δε φταίνε μόνο η Ταργκεριανς, αλλά ότι είναι υπεύθυνοι σε έναν βαθμό, ναι θεωρώ είναι.

[@Firmth]

As a one-off statement, "beware the beast beneath the boards" is kind of cheesy, but ok. To repeat it, covering her face in terror, as if she thinks it's right there right then "there's a beast beneath the boards!" is just cringey. Emotional outbursts don't come out in poetic form. Been bothering me for a while. It's not like she doesn't know what a dragon looks like, or doesn't know what a floor is. Edit: off topic, I know

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I think that she didn't know what exactly she was seeing. She was seeing something bad coming from undreneath. At least this is what I got from this. And it was the prophecy that sealed the deal for me, that they don't know what they are dreaming about 100%.

[@TheCronesEye]

I had just finished watching the Hightower video when this new one popped up directly underneath it in my YT feed. You are the gift who keeps on giving! 🤩😎💜

[@Firmth]

@@CompanyOfTheCat I think I'm just being pedantic about a spot of cringe writing in a show that has otherwise been pretty good. You are right that the prophecy is the problem, a sword with no hilt as Val put it, and in this sense it kind of compares to the dragons themselves - people are using a power they don't understand and can't control, with good intentions or bad, and doing great harm. It's also pretty interesting to think of jon and danaerys, neither of whom know that they're these prophesied heroes, both demonstrating an awareness that they can't do it all themselves. Jon is doing everything he can to unite the north, while danaerys is struggling to incorporate hostile factions into her new queendom, rather than just slaughtering them.

[@christossymA3A2]

Από την προφορά της πρώτης πρότασης κατάλαβα πως είσαι από Ελλάδα . Here, get your subscription

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Ναι δεν κρυβεται η ελληνικη η προφορα 😂

[@Belisaur]

Im demanding all my ASOIAF content accented in Spanish(?) from now on

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Greek and I would love to see this too, bc it's sounds hilarious 😂

[@TheKeyser94]

I wouldn't say that they are accurate, Haelena says that when Aegon II become King, he would lose two legs, but she never says how, when she says that Aemond would lose an eye to gain a dragon, not say witch dragon and what eye, George RR Martin changed along the years about prophecies, first by exploiting the audience, specifically the Jon Snow fans for ratings in his show Games of Thrones, to now saying "Beware of Prophecies", after the cluster fuck that was Season 6 to Season 8, I would say that a good "prophecy" is one that is subverted, like the chosen one, like for example a prophecy that say that he would say the world, but in the end he ends doomed it and destroying everything that he stand for.