the purpose of each team fortress class, as written by robin walker

[@shounic]

hi, was a bit busier this week so i decided to get around to making this small video i wanted to make as a footnote to the video i made about tf2's quake origins (kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKapmHuqd9Gglck). i was genuinely surprised that they literally wanted soldier to not have any particular weaknesses lol wtf also i fucking hate playing heavy and spy so 40 seconds of me feeding is the best i can do :)

[@QuazzleTheQaz]

shounic I was curious as to why you showed us "spy montages" lol

[@NikolasN64]

hey i like your videos

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

Just suck less

[@Matt-kl1mx]

Dude, I was std::vector. Thanks for adding that clip.

[@RoastCDuck]

The modern purposes goes like this Scout: Instakill damage output, fast and immune to all damage. Soldier: Slower and more agile class than the scout wich depends on rocketjumping as this is the only purpose of the rocketlauncher since rockets do zero damage. Pyro: Relies on blocking your vision by spamming flames until everyone dies just to attempt a flare afterwards, every single player Demoman: Spams as much ammo as he is possibly allowed to carry Heavy: Slow as a snail, his minigun shoots way to much but achieves low damage output at any distance. Engineer: When you are playing as an engineer your buildings last 1 second and have the aim-reaction time capacity of a pile of debris, the only time they really shrine is when you are fighting an engineer in which case their buildings are undestructable and aims at you frame-pixel perfect regardless whats covering you or how fast you move Medic: The medic exist for the only purpose of granting players the ability to heal without the need of medikits or pills, since they are done with their teammates stealing their medikits or the lack of them in the map they are playing, the medic is a fast melee unit who always crits and it will rarely reach 100% of its uber only to waste it as their teammates are not playing as a team but rather as unsyncronized individuals Spy: Depends of backstabbing and exploiting the game to grant them invulnerability and instant teleport backstabs otherwise they are useless. Miss pauline: As the scout will never achieve anything with here along the series of TF2, her purpose is to stop homosexual fan made material related to tf2, players ended up doing both Straight and gay porn anyways. Administrator: Her purpose is to use her pre recorded messages every time an event happens in the map usualy ending in many voice clips being played at the same time.

[@kingjensen8091]

1:09 "sniper relies on distance" *Cuts to clip of sniper rifle being used as a melee weapon*

[@Bixxy]

melee?

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

That must be some pretty long melee range.

[@justanotherspookyskeleton]

@@Bixxy He probably means that he Is using it to hit MOSTLY close enemys.

[@X_mezo_X]

@@Bixxy df are you doing here bixxy? :0

[@MisterJohnDoe]

EmiCraft Chile That’s still not melee...

[@BloodyAltima]

I love how the Pyro description is basically, "Will absolutely fail to kill any enemy on his own and will die horribly in the attempt, but he might wound the aggressor enough for a real class to solve the problem."

[@rayanalim7375]

and now in tf2 the pyro is more like "WIll annihilate every single thing in his path with his flamethrower, not stopping untill everything is dead or he runs out of ammo, in which case, he spams flares or shotgun shots at you untill he escapes or dies.

[@archmagef6971]

@@rayanalim7375 they didn't increase the max dps of the flamethrower at all, they just made it's hit detection and dps consistent.

[@usernametaken017]

@@archmagef6971 which is enough

[@mustanaamiotto3812]

it was literally made for people who were handicapped by a bad internet

[@margaritakouzi5630]

The Pyro was most likely repurposed because the Engineer would often do a better job at the Pyro’s original role.

[@PentaromaLMA0]

3:28 "but if they're unaware, he can kill them before they can blink" **shows perfect example**

[@nemo9864]

@@comet-fy6pd That wasn't the point of his comment at all, idiot.

[@javonyounger5107]

@@nemo9864 I pretty sure he's making a joke.

[@zombieroo7348]

read chat during that clip lol

[@Archimedes.5000]

@@zombieroo7348 oh shit lmao, never would have noticed because its behind the subtitles

[@CarCorSnoAllen]

God, I love seeing scouts lob grenades at me when I play

[@SmittyWJManJensen]

I like how it depics the grenades as being confusing. That mechanic is kinda still there if you think about how the mad milk and the wrap are annoying AS HELL to deal with

[@altobug83]

Your profile pic is what I think anyone's reaction would be to having a scout lobbing grenades at them

[@alirezafalamarzi7062]

God forbids.

[@MoistMarsupial]

The tf2 beta had grenades, but I'm sure most of you have already seen gameplay of that

[@AnAshenSpirit]

Scout with grenades is an entirely different beast compared to modern day scout. A combination of bhopping and boosting with his concussion grenades let him reach insane speeds, they are nothing like the mad milk or wrap assassin. If you got hit with one say goodbye to being able to aim at all (or see, for that matter). He could be a pain to fight but it was fun to fly through maps at Mach 12

[@ThumbsTup]

"Sniper relies on distance" *laughs in Jaratebushwacka*

[@dontlookatmyvideoREE]

*laughs on airblast*

[@sirgordinni5154]

@@dontlookatmyvideoREE *laughs in casual*

[@dontlookatmyvideoREE]

@@sirgordinni5154 *laughs with bots*

[@_wheeler8601]

Medic good at combating snipers?

[@phoonwax]

@@dontlookatmyvideoREE *laughs in server crash*

[@Mido_]

"Medic - A great class for clearing out snipers that are pinning a team down." lul

[@As567na]

It is

[@bruschetta7711]

@@As567na but it is also the first to get pinned down by the sniper

[@fangrowls6336]

that explains why crusader s crossbow exist

[@TheLegonaut]

The only counter to snipers are snipers

[@crikeybaguette4564]

@@TheLegonaut and spies and scouts

[@Rhetco]

I find it really funny that the pyro was intentionally designed to be a "throwaway" class

[@dontsayflan4315]

Your that girl from touhou 3 right? Specifically chiyuri kitashirakawa Or is that another person (talkin about your pfp)

[@NotASpyReally]

yeah the "the enemy will burn to death but the pyro will already be dead by that time" is SO TRUE LMAO EVERY TIME

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

You basically throw your self at enemy in a sewerslidal rage in the hopes one of them will be at 20 health and pray they don't find a medpack in the next 30 secs.

[@MetalX34]

its initial point was to be an aim wheelchair for people with bad internet connection, after all.

[@nursik-]

@@kimgkomg shit, he really was that useless, huh..

[@thefrub]

Yep, that is exactly how I play Pyro. Charge in, burn the entire team, die, get 20 assists as my team comes in behind me. Then I screenshot the angry messages and add them to my collection

[@randomcatdude]

i wanna see them

[@thefrub]

@@randomcatdude Only if you're invited to the shrine in my basement

[@GreatFox42]

@@thefrub what if we said please

[@sh4dowveil749]

@@GreatFox42 no one in the basement has ever wanted to be there before

[@TheGoodDoctor049]

Unfortunately, that’s not how it works, because medkits instantly put out fire for some reason

[@agenta6432]

false; we all know his real name is the demonstration man

[@Avary1984]

*Demonstrations Black

[@slyseal2091]

@fish Thats Fullman.

[@piyo744]

no, it's the demographics man

[@augustus5481]

No he is.... *Martin luther!*

[@SoluKissin]

no it's the demoralization man

[@GermanPeter]

Fascinating to see how intention and execution/ outcome differ a lot sometimes. They may have had many ideas for the classes initially, but after removing grenades and even with them, how they really played out changed quite a lot. Medic is the worst offender, with players completely getting rid of healing in TFC in favor of momentum and capping due to his arsenal and grenades. They really just saw "Wow, he has cool weapons and grenades, who cares about healing tbh", and just went with it. And for Pyro, it's interesting that afterburn was supposed to finish enemies off, when in TFClassic, it apparently sucked so hard that it took off not even 10 HP. In TF2, Sniper is still very much effective at medium and even close distance due to him being able to snipe people pretty much instantly. Granted, that's only at the highest level of skill, but the weapon still allows it to happen. And of course, Spy. God, what a mess Spy is. His entire role is undermined by just communicating with your team. If everyone knows where Spy is, he isn't effective, unless someone REALLY messes up. Though, there's still a lot of things that carried over from the initial idea to the final execution. The majority of classes work these days as they were originally intended, Medic as a good example. In Jungle Inferno, they even made afterburn more of a problem, which is also in line with the first intention for them. I find it remarkable how grenades are barely even mentioned in the Readme, as if they were really just an afterthought that didn't really add to the classes themselves. And that's kinda true, frag grenades turned even Medic into a powerhouse of a class (nerfing Scout in comparison, since he doesn't get them), whereas many of the specialized grenades don't even fit the class' role. Like Engie's EMP or Heavy's MIRV. Those grenades are purely about offense, not defense. I think they made a good decision taking them out of TF2, it really helped streamline the classes' roles.

[@SM-yr3nt]

make normal regular beta video instead of that weird jojo anime thing

[@izrrr4785]

@@SM-yr3nt no

[@loaf_of_fred1487]

Come on man, he’s worked up the courage to make a public comment and your dumbass is just like “ mAkE nOrMaL vIdEo InStEaD oF tHaT wEiRd jOjO aNiMe tHiNg” Grow the fuck up. If you don’t like that content, go make your own and see how hard it is, you fucking troglodyte.

[@juliangardisky7236]

@@SM-yr3nt Ungrateful bastard.

[@sire6265]

@@SM-yr3nt jesus christ

[@BigDaddy-je2nq]

Demo man is short for "Demonstration manual"

[@The_WhitePencil]

That's what the bombinomicon is, his true form.

[@gudmansal3468]

demonstration manual for how to demo(nstration) man(ual)

[@dapperfield595]

2:55 “The Pyro often find it hard to kill enemies on *his* own” Pyro gender confirmed

[@dragonsinfluence68]

is the team fortress classic pyro, the comics confirmed that the tfc pyro is female.

[@James-oj6ru]

dragon's influense No, wrong classic one, this is *QUAKE* _CLASSIC_

[@dragonsinfluence68]

@@James-oj6ru my bad! thanks!

[@Thornskade]

That is the Quake Team Fortress Pyro, not our Pyro. The TFC Pyro is canonically female. For TF2 Pyro, we still don't know.

[@h4724-q6j]

@@nadir4562 It isn't Team Fortress Classic. TFC is an expansion for Half-Life; this is the original Quake mod that it was based on.

[@appliedatoms7066]

He describes scout as the flag runner, but even I with my limited TFC knowledge know that it was the medic that ran the intel.

[@MetalX34]

both were run for -suicide on the flag- speedrun the flag. dunno if it was a pre-set meta or if scout's superior movespeed helped better for bhop. in any case, even in community tournaments med wasn't the one and only official flag runner.

[@iwiffitthitotonacc4673]

Just FYI, this video wasn't about TFC, but the TF Quake 1 mod. I've played neither but I would assume that they play differently.

[@RIPANDTEAR60]

@@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 no tfc and tf1 are pretty similar with just slight differences like shotgun falloff damage in tf1

[@AnAshenSpirit]

From what I know Scout ran the Intel and Medic was more for DM iirc

[@RIPANDTEAR60]

@@AnAshenSpirit it also depended on team sizes like in smaller teams the medic did both roles

[@bottlegang3187]

Medic: A great class to clear out snipers that are pinning the team down. Well well well, how the turntables...

[@The_WhitePencil]

*Random crit crossbow bolt*

[@ObsidianHunter99]

"The soldier is the core of any squad" If only my team of 5 snipers knew that

[@distractioncat7285]

if only the kritz medic saw my 4 hp ass with a direct hit

[@Twiddle_things]

Funnily enough a while back i ended up in a team of 6 snipers (including me) and a single spy KEK

[@TheRoboKitty]

"Given time, enemies burn to death" Afterburn in TF-Quake and TF-Classic only did 8 damage

[@a_blind_sniper]

I was watching some footage from TFC and was blown away that the layout for Dustbowl and Badlands was pretty much the same to their TF2 versions. I think a map tour of the old and new maps would be pretty neat!

[@louogarlic5111]

Check out GermanPeter's Stardustbowl Crusaders video, he's talking about Dustbowl's previous versions there

[@wizardmagic1580]

@Bunneer it was well made tbh, i enjoyed it.

[@AnAshenSpirit]

Likewise with Well and 2fort

[@xyzzy-dv6te]

@@AnAshenSpirit TFC Well was quite interesting, sludge rivers, lifts in flag room and a ladder to a sniper roof.

[@thescience_team]

He's talking about tf quake

[@Ashcoop]

1:55 Sick juggles

[@magicmanscott40k]

Wow nice shot

[@chuckwellington3307]

"Soldier is very slow but makes up for it with his weaponry" More like Soldier is very fast WITH his weaponry and everything revolving around his weaponry turns him into the second fastest class in the game behind Scout. I like how they never saw it coming by the sound of it that Soldier mains would have things like 'rollouts' and Disciplinary Actions. He's nothing like what they make him sound like. That description honestly suits Heavy way more.

[@jeninimas]

Ironic considering rocket jumping was actually a thing in both QTF and TFC

[@Thornskade]

I don't know about the original Quake mod, but in TFC every class can go fast using grenades, whether that was predicted or not. While present, rocket jumping wasn't quite as effective as in TF2, getting you shorter distances and dealing more self-damage. So in that game, this description would still kinda fit.

[@DonnieDoodles]

I think what it is is that Soldier, if he's not using up ammo and health rocket jumping around, he's actually the second slowest mover in the whole game. Like, if we're talking purely about running speed, soldier is actually pretty slow.

[@campfortson4387]

@@DonnieDoodles in my opinion, besides sniper, soldier is the class with the highest potential to stomp the server. In the hands of a really good player, there's no limit to how much ass the soldier can kick.

[@DonnieDoodles]

@@campfortson4387 I personally think that soldiers who are cocky can easily be brought down a peg by a well-placed airblast, I've had it happen before, soldier literally shoots into my airblast and dies horribly. Sniper on the other hand has no such weakness.

[@toilet5170]

How different the medic in QTF must have been from his TF2 counterpart. The TFC medic was more like a stronger scout with the ability to heal teammates and poison enemies

[@xyzzy-dv6te]

He also had regenerating health and grenades

[@devontheundivided9815]

Patchouli is great but chirino is where it's at. The strongest

[@seronymus]

You have a very based name

[@toilet5170]

Yes

[@an0nimogmud549]

@@seronymus toilet

[@jockeyfield1954]

"robin's alias is just 'bro'" *in a conversation* "hey, bro" "dude, i don't like the name robin!"

[@tonyshum5569]

"the pyro often finds it hard to kill enemies on his own" lol

[@wiselychosenname2867]

Laughs in wm1

[@ThumbsTup]

*laughs in phlog*

[@The_Mister_E]

Or at least it does now due to the afterburn nerfs. Although I was never one to complain about my main's claim to fame, it was kinda crazy. Nowadays you've gotta work to keep the fire under their asses long enough for them to fall, especially if you're a combo pyro.

[@heidiaguirre5672]

[Laughs in noobs not playing competitive and never even watching a highlander comp match]

[@PassTheSnails]

Yeah, if the other player is competent. If you get killed in a pyro 1v1, you are a worse player than the pyro.

[@datonedood3791]

"sniper is long range" *laughs in 150 damage quickscope*

[@AnAshenSpirit]

Good luck quickscoping with the Classic, because the Classic works identically to how the original sniper rifle from TF1/TFC worked

[@The_WhitePencil]

@@AnAshenSpirit not identically, but close

[@masterdeetectiv9520]

@@AnAshenSpirit you could quickscope in tfc, it didnt need to be fully charged like how it is in tf2

[@Fel1xF7W]

demoman: "he's a good offensive class, not so much with defense" also demoman: *listed as defensive in character selection menu* edit: lol same thing with pyro

[@TeleTrenta]

pyro is listed on the offense class : offense: scout soldier *pyro* defense: demo heavy engy support: med sniper spy

[@kainezillah]

@Артур Коптев In Quakeworld Team Fortress, not TFC.

[@willowbarrelmaker8269]

That was the version of him that didn't have the sticky bombs though, unless I'm mistaken. That is absolutely going to make him more of an offensive class

[@LASAGNA_LARRY]

Robin Walker: “Pyro is a *support class* that should have trouble killing classes on its own.” Pyro now: Haha, w+m1 go brrrrrrr

[@Supershadow301]

Why now? It was literally designed that way. Airblast wasn't a thing back then, remember?

[@ari-mariberry]

He's more of a support class in modern TF2 than he did back in TFC and early TF2.

[@Journey_to_who_knows]

Laughs in full team of pyros camping spawn

[@eatttheball]

Lucas Deci pyro is easily one of the best support classes yes

[@grosezero8834]

if a pyro attacked me i would simply walk away

[@MisterJohnDoe]

“He’s got trouble if the opponent should get within range” *Meanwhile sniper players usually one shot you as soon as they see you regardless of range*

[@The_WhitePencil]

Well, the really good ones.

[@GoodlyData86596]

@@The_WhitePencil too bad they are pretty common nowadays

[@The_WhitePencil]

@@GoodlyData86596 this didn't age well.

[@anonymously_]

@@The_WhitePencil aged like milk, pencil, aged like a _mate doing a good shot_ Nice shot mate

[@626Link]

So Pyro was always meant to be underpowered... Fascinating. I always assumed that the fact that he dies first in many encounters speaks the class being broken. An ambush class that can't ambush enemies... But clearly Robin meant for this from even before TF2 was created. That's pretty eye opening.

[@MetalX34]

let's say he was intended to soften up ppl more than killing them. in such mindset his poor firepower wouldn't be "underpowered" but just the user overextending after setting their target ablaze. issue is that whether it's a matter of "ambushing" or "disrupting the enemy team", it's practically meme tier compared to being an actual threat. that would have been "okay" had the class at least been an engaging opponent, but even at that it fails miserably.

[@slycat9449]

@@MetalX34 The back burner would like to have a word with you.

[@MetalX34]

@@slycat9449 was talking about the core of the class i.e. excluding the unlocks. tho that wouldn't change much if we included the backb. overreliance on the element of surprise to be "threatening" is just a joke: it barely works even for a specialized class like spy, let alone for pryo and nearly every combat class can do it well enough anyway when it's worth doing. if you're not convinced, try outside of pub's maymay mayhem into an actual match, and see how you get denied more than anything. you'd put more pressure on the enemy team by being a direct threat than trying to flank or camp 24/7.

[@AlexanderRM1000]

AIUI the main problem with Pyro is he doesn't fit a clear role the way other classes do (power, pick or support) making him hard to balance. Note how for a year or so after the Pyro update he was considered *overpowered* (although maybe that was more in pubs?) because of he got within range he could just murder a whole room full of enemies; then they adjusted damage again and he went straight back to underpowered.

[@gueton5200]

@@AlexanderRM1000 i'm a pyro main, yeah he doesn't necessarily fit into those categories, i guess the phrase "jack of all trades master of none" fits pyro pretty well, not to say he can't be good or useful, it's easiest class to check for spies (which i still believe it's an accidental The Thing reference), reflecting rockets, pills, arrows, jarate, Uber charges and even dragon's fury fire (honestly the airblast is the best part of the pyro), you can deal with large groups far easier, his loadouts needs more interesting stuff unlike wm1 incentivators like the Phlog, but there's a lot of interesting choices you can have, like detonator for traps and increased mobility, jetpack to get to places unacessible to most classes, etc, he can be a really good class if the situation calls for it, but if the enemy team has like one or more good heavy's you practically become useless, not even mentioning how most classes can 1-2 shot you, pyro is far from overpowered, at least right now, kinda funny when i'm struggling to do anything and then an enemy complains that i'm overpowered or that i didn't do melee when i was at low health and surrounded by enemies lol

[@bratpeki]

"almost certainly be half-dead" lmao

[@areoants9453]

"The Soldier moves slower than most classes..." Yeah, sure that'll be the same 9 years in the future.

[@Mate_Antal_Zoltan]

he's talking about movement speed, not mobility

[@Wintd1]

Soldier technically has the 2nd slowest movement speed in the game, in fact he's not that much faster than the Heavy. His mobility comes from rocket jumping, which was always insane even during days of Quake Fortress and TFC.

[@pathulhu200]

they literally designed pyro to be garbage

[@heidiaguirre5672]

Yup and he still is and always will be a gimmick class

[@neptuniamarina4924]

@@heidiaguirre5672 And yet He's probably still all around better then Spy nowadays.

[@MetalX34]

tbf they designed lots of classes with pretty garbage roles (scout having no good gun, medic being often better than scout, ect.), so you could say that "pyro is meant to just burn people and not kill" is just them experimentating. what's less forgivable is how they still believed that idea would work in tf2, resulting in a poor design covered with a hundred bandaids. hell, if spy is also a gimmick, at least his presence doesn't make the interactions more linear, which puts it far above pyro as a contributor of the game's quality.

[@AnnieC.1993]

And yet I still die to afterburn. It shouldn't even be in the game. All it does is kill me because captain crutch (black box conch escape plan soldier) took my health pack when he was at 199 health and I was at 20 with decreasing health.

[@cerocero2817]

I'm pretty sure they also made it with people with shitty internet connections that can't aim in mind, but I can't remember where I read that.

[@wilfreddevries294]

From these class descriptions it's clear where the name `Team Fortress` came from. The classes were designed to work together and complement each other. If only pubbers knew.

[@PepperoniMilkshake]

It's weird that only a bit of this still holds true to this day

[@whammeister3002]

I'd say most of it holds up, most of the main differences are a result of the grenades that were removed in tf2, but other than, that the essential role of the classes carried over pretty well in my opinion.

[@USERWASBANNED]

In comp with class limits and weapon bans, pretty much all of this holds up

[@MetalX34]

you're right, a lot has changed: scout isn't weak af anymore and is now a powerhouse demo isn't the strongest at close range but the weakest, and serves more often at the frontline medic is full support instead of being what's pretty much the tf2 scout with a sticky jumper and a fucked up melee. ppl and volvo found out pyro is garbo as a "first line of defense" and turned it into a leafblower rest of the classes do feel fairly similar to their ancestors in function tho.

[@Wintd1]

@@whammeister3002 I'd say most of it holds up besides the medic. He got a complete overhaul transitioning to TF2 and became a lot more passive than he was in QTF/TFC.

[@acfgcnbjh]

1:55 "...weaponry, he's a good *AH* ffensive class". This scared the shit outta me for some reason lol

[@evieinfinite]

lmao

[@dr.dolittle4505]

1:58 can we all take a moment to appreciate how great that juggle was.

[@alexlokanin3312]

some of the tfc descriptions are obsolete in tf2, most importantly, medic. he used to be more deadly than the scout in tfc, now he's strictly the healer.

[@maxithalo7796]

some of these still hold up, honestly Soldier, heavy, engineer, spy they all changed a lot over time but their core mechanics are still the focus today Medic makes me chuckle tho lmao

[@FancyPantaloons]

"Demoman is a good offensive class" Demoman: *Is literally classified as defense*

[@shamrocksardonic2582]

This was back during the Quake mod days of Team Fortress.

[@gudmansal3468]

no sticky bombs?

[@SkyNinja759]

1:46 I don't think I have ever heard someone spell out MIRV. It's always been Muh-er-v. That threw me for a loop.

[@ehehehehehe9661]

Either Em-Ai-Ar-Vee or Murv

[@stealthc0bra433]

Scout: And his grenades are a good way to... Me: *HOL UP*

[@jakobknecht7654]

All classes used to have grenades. That's not new info.

[@solforecast2101]

@Pyrokaliptyk wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Scout_(Classic) check this out.

[@no-better-name]

@@solforecast2101 doesn't this just confirm Scout had no frags? he had caltrops (spiky bois) and concussion grenades (insane knockback)

[@usernametaken017]

@@no-better-name comcusion granades are still granedes

[@no-better-name]

@@usernametaken017 i meant that frags ≠ grenades, frags = fragmentation grenades. scout does have caltrops and concs, tho

[@fangrowls6336]

edit: i got complains about my previous comment so i will be switching it with one that praise the author of the video creativity about the dear god segment. thank you gentlemen

[@rainermist2357]

Yes, this is what the video said. No need to repeat it.

[@fangrowls6336]

@@rainermist2357 repeating it its notifying the creator of this how much i enjoyed that

[@rainermist2357]

@@fangrowls6336 OR, what's more likely, it's a low-effort sure-fire way to rake in some likes? At least it's less effort than telling the creator "Hey, I laughed at X. Thank you."

[@egorence2149]

DEAR GOD

[@MrFathat]

@Thertane stajia dear god...

[@valkstir2403]

Wait... Pyro was a (mostly) defensive class and Demo was an (mostly) offensive one? That explains a lot...

[@AnthanKrufix]

I think the biggest takaway is that the medic was designed to be primarily a personally offensive class who could hold their own in a fight, but then who could also could heal allies during downtime between combats. Anyone who's played TFC knows the meme about Medic just being a better Scout. Slightly less movement speed but better armored and with better weapons, and even also had the Conc-Grenades which was basically a free sticky-jumper... While their healing duties were linked to their melee weapon and required both they and their ally stand still to be healed and couldn't even bring them up to 'full' health because it couldn't repair armor. The invention of the Medigun and the healing beam in TF2 really did wonders to the medic class of not only TF2 but all team shooters.

[@EpicSlash]

Currently I'm designing a custom game mode for Halo 5, inspired by Team Fortress, this video was an interesting topic as I'm currently going through the same challenge the original team went through when designing the purpose of each class.

[@idostuffig3391]

How is the mod progress?

[@marcowulliampopirers2216]

and how is it going

[@TTTTacu]

progress?

[@cupofspiders5830]

Medics who are “a good class in most situations” Fascinating.

[@kappasike]

I like how he’s talking about the sniper having trouble if an enemy is in close range and in the clip it’s him killing 2 people close range

[@lagpeanut]

never been this early to your vid before, but imma say i love all your vids man :D always interesting and creative, keep it up

[@badcatalex]

Holy shit your production quality is amazing

[@figeon]

2:51 This! I've always seen the Pyro more as a support class rather than an offensive one. People love to laugh about how the pyro is a weak class, but he's really just more of a support class rather than an offensive one. The Pyro is at it's best when he's staying at the front lines, extinguishing teammates, checking for spies, deflecting rockets and grenades from your team in the backlines and from the sentry nest, removing sappers. What I would like to see is more variety of weapons for the pyro to allow him to become a good high damage offensive class, give him more versatility, just like the other classes.

[@Hungeryan]

If you want to try Pyro offensively, try out the Dragon's Fury. It's not the very best but it isn't bad by any means.

[@infucktus4899]

This is old version of pyro ure confused

[@kovacsabelkristof3566]

Notice, how he always mentioned the pyro as ,,him"

[@cinex20]

Notice, how the TF1 and TFC classes aren't the same people as the TF2 mercenaries.

[@mittenstherealest]

OH SHIT RETCON ALERT!!

[@7tales311]

@@mittenstherealest the pyro in tfc was literally revealed as female in the comics

[@mittenstherealest]

@@7tales311 Exactly!!

[@gudmansal3468]

the qtf, tfc and tf2 ones are not the same ones

[@carbon8ed]

Love how pyro was deliberately designed to be cannon fodder (and has stayed that way ever since) and medic was originally intended to be a sniper counter lmao.

[@TrustyGun2]

Other than the description of the Medic, these are all basically the foundations of each class even today.

[@SSSavanti]

I just realized that the "demo" in demoman means "demolition" and not "demon" and I feel extremely stupid

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

ahhhh this really be a bruh moment

[@elviejodelabolsa8263]

I got introduced to TF2 by a comment on the Benny Hill theme video that mentioned the Demoknight and edgy me thought it said "Demonknight" so I looked up TF2 and there I am

[@thetrashmann8140]

"You Crazy Man"- Demolitions Man, Team Fortress 2

[@faceless2302]

I think the profile picture is fitting

[@de_soot]

*_how_*

[@typeracer2096]

robin walked so team can fortress 2

[@blankyjae3316]

bravo vince

[@airank3861]

I always knew that Valve switched up Demo and Pyro when listing classes as "offense" or "defense"

[@dudeonspeed1]

i'm glad there's still cool tf2 content in 2020

[@speedyboy7123]

i read comment

[@raccoonpope7143]

The fact that he only used a shotgun on Heavy makes me beyond annoyed

[@tuke3541]

"the engineer works primarily as a support class" Me placing down my 10th agressive sentry again with 0 teamsupport. Not due to a bad team but due to me failing to read the room "Repeat that"

[@ledraps22]

pyro definitely strayed from that role of front line of defense. Safe to say soldier's role also applies to pyro too now. The description for heavy also seems to have transitioned to the casual engineer building level 3 sentry nest that we have nowadays. The one for medic which notes it's a counter to sniper seems to be gone entirely.

[@seronymus]

*laughs in Crusader's Crossbow*

[@garbage3970]

Quality content, as always

[@leonader9465]

Really interesting how well these have held up.

[@nopinappleshere8861]

i feel like some of the characters went in a completely different direction to what robin spoke about here

[@ananasasjenkins881]

I love your channel man. Its beautiful

[@DoctorChained]

Heavy uses an "Assault cannon?" Are we making up weapon names now?

[@carlosdavidg7]

Thats what the minigun was called in quake team fortress

[@gudmansal3468]

qtf used that name

[@Sporaticzzz]

Pyro: was designed to be a support class and was then made into an even better support class with air blast. Like half of his unlocks: we don’t do that here

[@soullessleftover8427]

It's still amazing how this game does so well unlike the ability clones, that are flooding in the market.

[@FortressOne]

The Quake Team Fortress community is still alive and well. Come join us: www.fortressone.org

[@tomasduron9744]

"Lack of close-range weaponry[...]" Proceeds to headshot two people at point blank.

[@sparklepawz1185]

Now a days it's: Scout: best overall offensive class, able to pick his fights and dance around the enemy, not giving them a chance to hit any shots but rather lacking in defensive abilities especially in tight spaces. Soldier: core class. An easy class that's effective even for new players but once mastered is a major offensive and defensive threat. Pyro: best offensive support class. Able to redirect projectiles to keep teammates safe and deny pushes while still being able to attack with his teammates though at a limited range/capacity. Demo: most versatile class, able to defend and attack at the same time with his grenades and sticky bombs in any situation. Heavy: best overall defensive class. Massive damage in close-mid range but struggles to push forward with his team. Wins most of the fights he picks but has to commit even when the tides turn. Medic: Best overall class. Not having a medic leaves you at an automatic disadvantage. Engineer: best defensive support class. Able to shut down areas with a sentry, support teammates with dispensers and teleporters, but unable to effectively push with the team without major sacrifices (using a mini instead or swapping a rescue ranger for a shotgun). Sniper: the best pick class, able to down any class in one shot as long as they do not have uber or resistances. Spy: just kinda there. Without mastering multiple trickstabs, spy is outclassed in most, if not all cases, often dying right after a kill.

[@spelare1]

3:29 "... but if they're unaware, he can kill them before they can blink." *cuts to clip of failed backstab where enemy was very unaware*

[@facemcshooty6602]

pyro: designed to be garbage engineer: designed to be stealmatey

[@exxelsetijadi5348]

Technically all the classes are throwaway classes too -scout's weapon roster mostly revolves around assists and is just a fast engineer -soldier relies on medics and teammates for his blast jumps and banners -pyro you already know why -demo relies accuracy and not killing yourself and well timed charges and clicks -heavy almost has no hope of survival if he runs out of ammo because he has little backup weapons -engie has a small weapon roster and most of them focus on spy checking and building maintenance -medic also has a small weapon roster and relies on teammates to maximize survival -sniper has a sharp learning curve and is almost useless when out of ammo -spy is almost instantly dead when he gets busted and most of his his melee weapons decrease his health / cloak meter

[@xyzzy-dv6te]

So basically, the classes are designed for teamwork

[@shamrocksardonic2582]

This commentary is back from the days of Quakemod Team Fortress, and almost nothing about it holds true today. Scout, for example, was quite literally overshadowed by Medic, who was a combat class who _sometimes_ healed his teammates, but mostly just used his grenades to fly around the map at mach 10 and blast people with the super shotgun.

[@nearlyepoint249]

yes

[@shounic]

your username is a blight on humanity, but i respect it. truly outside the box.

[@ranibro]

i can subscrie by pressing ctrl + - , look

[@thetrashmann8140]

this guy has been driving me insane but I don't know why

[@EeveeMaster547]

I find it so fascinating how they've changed over time, and yet still retained some of the core details.

[@MarkoLaske]

pyros purpose is to die first. I like how robin was thinking

[@arken2583]

The Pyro in the thumbnail is beautiful. I want it now, please.

[@bassbusterx]

sorry but the way you say "weaponary" distracts me. nice vid tho

[@GoldKnightProduction]

I could've sworn that said Robin Williams.

[@QuazzleTheQaz]

Joel needs to play TF2...😞

[@_smegmann8156]

on hightower.. to be exact

[@captainkeyes9913]

“The sniper is ideal for long range” Shows a clip of a pyro being quick scoped at point blank

[@eddboi2486]

It’s interesting that he would say that medic would be a good counter for sniper, that would mean that somehow the medic would have to get behind the enemy lines rather than supporting the team.

[@_wheeler8601]

Ikr

[@lightningbug9564]

when playing a character in the video game i try to get into their mind set like scout is cocky but kinda cowardly = annoying hit and run tactics medic is a mad scientist = always confident in their skills and ready to get his hands dirty sniper is very professional = stay calm have a plan to kill everyone you see

[@TKsh1]

Playing Heavy in TF2 is hell on Earth. Unless you have considerable gamesense and a decent Medic on your team, you get stomped hard by almost all of the classes. They're just stronger and more practical to play, what's the point of playing a tank class if you can't even stand on your own? Also fuck Pyro lol

[@Wintd1]

Heavy is pretty easy to play in pubs since most pubbers have horrible gamesense and don't realize that you're not supposed to take on a Heavy directly at close range. Highlander is a very different story however, and I think it's one of the main reasons (other than Heavy already being one of the least popular classes to begin with) why he's often one of the last classes to be filled.

[@SomeScruffian]

"if undetected, the spy can kill anyone before they can blink" _shows clip of getting mowed down by a sniper after failing a backstab_

[@Kilgorx]

1:12 "but his lack of close range weaponry means hes glt trouble if the opponent should get withing range" says as he hits 2 point blank headshots

[@endarkenedgd]

random fact: in tfc, medic's shotgun did more damage than scout's, so before the bhop fix was added, medic was better at being a scout than the scout was at being a scout lul

[@hansonkerman7286]

as a pyro main, being a throwaway idiot is actually kind of fun when i feel like it

[@timur5241]

scout - intelligence soldier - assault pyro - sweep demoman - ambush heavy - suppression engie - control medic - his name speaks for himself sniper - his name speaks for himself spy - infiltration

[@gudmansal3468]

medic is literally intelligence, you just shoot people with the nailgun and medkit and fly into their base to get the intel, medic is just more suit for intel than scout

[@fluzzles]

Demoman: "At close range, the Demoma- My brain: *KA-BEEEEEM*

[@roycethefox]

"Pyro often finds it hard to kill enemies on his own" *collective laugh of pyro mains*

[@jhay3966]

"at long range, he's in trouble" me: *laughs in sticky sniping*

[@JuniDoesStuff]

It's interesting to see how far the classes have come from their original TF/TFC design docs.

[@JoeContext]

You know TF1 was like a whole other universe when the readme says "At close range, the demoman is particularly dangerous." and "the Pyro often finds it hard to kill enemies on his own."

[@gudmansal3468]

the demoman is particularly dangerous TO HIMSELF

[@raggathy]

For a sec i thought this was an ad video before i noticed the e n h a n c e d p y r o

[@nqv497]

I like how most of his clips feature nice frags while pyro's section is just a dead pyro

[@infucktus4899]

🗿

[@CapemanProducti0ns]

Fascinating, it's like looking at the sketch of the huge art piece that TF2 got to be

[@bradlauk1419]

and then 400 updates and 30 power creep weapons later and we've got demomen who charge long range and cut people's heads off, pyros who fly all over critting when they use the backburner and killing in moments, engineers who get crit shotguns, et al. They really fucked up the meta man.

[@tetraphobie]

Never thought of mad milk as a supportive grenade but sure that works.

[@pieofchart]

Thank you, Robin "Bro" Walker.

[@2copy3copy4cpoy]

Cobra Assault Cannon. State of the art. bang-bang.