The Real Faramir explained

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

What's your opinion on Peter Jackson's take on Denethor and Faramir?

[@silentbobfd]

First of all, that was a great video on Faramir, I completely agree on your points. I think Peter Jackson had to alter some things from the books in order to create more "drama", and as I remember now from my first viewing of the films, and we all can agree to that, it worked greatly. Faramir and other important characters, like Aragorn and his reluctance to embrace his legacy (in the films) suffered from that exaggerated drama, but that was a "necessary" sacrifice in order for having a more substantial payoff in the end. I look forward on your next videos on the LOTR lore generally and the books-films differences, keep up the great work!

[@warden4050]

Great video, Faramir is 1 of my favourite character from the books, glad to see you posting another video. Melkor have been defeated.

[@meduseldtales3383]

I would paraphrase John F Kennedy: "There are some who say that Peter Jackson's movies are a decent and respectful adaptation of Tolkien's masterpiece. Let them look at Faramir!"

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

@@silentbobfd Thank you for your opinion on the matter! And thanks for the positive feedback! It means a lot to me!

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

@@warden4050 Thanks man! Faramir is my favourite character from Gondor!

[@Badboyben1422]

Faramir: I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Minas Tirith! That's one of my favourite quotes from the books :)

[@josephmcbloggs8447]

I can get that on a nationalistic level. Beautiful quote.

[@KTChamberlain]

I do like Faramir's line in the Extended Edition of The Two Towers where he says, "The Shire must be a great realm, Master Gamgee, where gardeners are held in high honor." I don't recall if he actually said that in the book, but in fairness to the movie it does sound like something he really would say.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

He did say it, can't remember if completely alike tho. That's one of the only times one get the real sense of Faramir in the movies in my opinion!

[@BertGrink]

In my copy, the 1986 reissue by Unwin Paperbacks, ISBN 0-04-823186-X, on page 362, Faramir says "Well, Frodo, now at last we understand one another. If you took this thing on yourself, unwilling, at others' asking, then you have pity and honour from me. And I marvel at you: to keep it hid and not to use it. You are a new people and a new world to me. Are all your kin of like sort? Your land must be a realm of peace and content, and there must gardeners be in high honour."

[@nostalji93]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT Good video. I remember I really didn't like what they had done to my boy Faramirs character and his relationship with Denethor. Still I understand that in the movie their real characters and relationship couldve been to distracting from the main plot. There are some glimpses of Faramirs character how he is written in the books in the extended addition: When gandalf wants to convince him not to go on a suicide mission he replys with resignation: "Where does allegance lie if not here? This is the City of the men of Numenor. I gladly give my life to defends its beauty, her memory, her wisdome.." The way he says that and that gandalf answers with: "your fathers loves you Faramir...[silently] he will remeber before the end" shows me that they tried to get that conflict and his character more right in the extended edition.

[@rikk319]

Tolkien wrote in one of his letters, that when asked which character in the book he felt he was most akin to, he said Faramir. High praise, indeed.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Indeed! Also my favourite character by far.

[@ingold1470]

Did Jackson view Faramir as a Gary Stu self-insert because of this letter, and therefore diminished him for the film adaptation?

[@kevinfromvirginia1796]

You are absolutely correct with Denethor believing Boromir was more loyal to his will than Faramir. This is quite evident after reading the "Minas Tirith" & "The Seige of Gondor" chapters. It is solidified during "The Breaking of the Fellowship," when Boromir was determined to lead the Fellowship to Minas Tirith and deliver the Ring to his father. Denethor's belief is confirmed when he learns that Faramir allowed Frodo & Sam to go to Mordor with the Ring. Great video!

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Thank you for your feedback! That's exactly the evidence I used to base my statements on! Nothing beats the details in lotr!

[@thezord6686]

What is the will of Boromir?

[@kevinfromvirginia1796]

@@thezord6686 He wanted to bring the ring to Gondor. For Faramir's sake. But, it seems he may have wanted it for himself. He makes his intentions clear in chapter 10, of The Two Towers (if I can recall correctly). I think both Boromir and Faramir genuinely believed it would help protect Gondor.

[@thezord6686]

@@kevinfromvirginia1796 so Boromir is selfish at that point when Faramir tells about him to frodo? I also find it creepy when he smiled when he mentions to frodo that Boromir died.

[@HarryVoyager]

I think the issues with Denethor and Faramir were those were two characters the movie makers didn't really understand. For example, in the interviews one of them was talking about the immense arrogance of Denethor wearing armour, when he was an old man clearly not able to fight anymore, whereas, that always struck me as more being done in empathy for the troops he was always sending out to fight, sort of a reminder not to be comfortable with this. Likewise, in interviews one of the writers was explaining why they had Faramir try to take the ring, and it was because they didn't understand how this one guy could just ignore its power and corrupting influence and it didn't make sense to them. But when he says he would walk past it, he's not stating that it could not corrupt him, but rather that he knows it would, and the safest, best, thing is to avoid the temptation entirely. It has no hold over him because he does not let it even enter his mind, not because he thinks himself worthy to wrestle with it. Its a striking philosophical moment too. The Ring's power is temptation, but it can have no power over you unless you let it in. I also do like it in the way that it does somewhat deflate the power of the ring. It's a nice little reminder that, as powerful as the forces of evil are, they are not quite as powerful as they think they are. That said, I suspect Faramir would not have been willing to join the Fellowship, because he expects he would be tempted and potentially corrupted by the ring if he tied himself to it. I suspect Aragorn himself would have preferred not to be involved with it, either, but he's already tied into it by Isildur, and I do notice he did fairly quickly shift gears to go after Merry and Pippen, when he realized that Sam and Frodo had left with the ring.

[@chrism3790]

Gondor, Faramir and Denethor were butchered in the films. Gondor was portrayed as a weak nation, with a proud and petty ruler who hated his son for no good reason other than not being as good with a sword as his first born. Denethor was incredibly wise and sharp. He was a flawed, but great ruler. He had long prepared Gondor for the war, because he knew it would come under his rule. He also loved Faramir just as much as Boromir, just in a different way. He was proud of Boromir for his skill in war and leadership, but Faramir's gentle nature reminded him of his wife, who he had loved very much. Yes, he despaired during the battle, and not wanting to live with his own failure as a ruler, decided to set himself and what was left of his legacy on fire before the enemy could get to him. In the film, however, he is completely negligent about the war. He's a miserably incompetent, self-destructive, oblivious and spiteful ruler that almost makes you feel as if Gondor deserves to be obliterated. Gondor's warriors were fierce, and as Tokien said, "worth 10 orcs each". This was not seen at all in the films, where they seem like token resistance, constantly being overrun and routing. In reality they were even more formidable than Rohan's warriors. There is a reason Sauron sent 150 thousand orcs to storm Minas Tirith, which was defended by just 8000 men. They were tough as nails. Faramir was not as badly portrayed as Denethor, but I still disliked how they made him a very insecure man, eager to compromise his principles to please his father and seem worthy. He was not like that at all. He didn't seek glory or praise. He knew from the start how dangerous the ring was and was not tempted to take it. He said it explicitly: "But fear no more! I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory. No, I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo". Another thing that bothered me was how they used the phrase "A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality" in the films. This line was perhaps the most out of context of the entire trilogy and it's said with an overtly greedy intention, in a moment where Faramir is seemingly envisioning himself wielding that power to save Gondor and prove himself as a great warrior. In the books, he was ironically imagining how a lowly, dishonorable version of himself would act in the presence of the ring. He didn't want it at all. A few pages later, Sam lets slip that Boromir had in fact succumbed to that temptation, and that only further reinforces his caution towards the ring and seals his decision to let Frodo continue on his journey to Mount Doom.

[@arckocsog253]

Jackson also wanted to add drama - will faramir let them go? He's my favourite character.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

True! The anticipation!

[@geneblanchard9424]

The portrayal of Gondor in the films always bothered me. Denethor wasn’t a traitor, he did his upmost to strengthen Gondor against Sauron. His fatal flaw was not remembering what the role of the Steward was, to guard the realm until the King returns, and so when he sees Faramir wounded he gives in to despair, which is one of the worst emotions in all of Tolkien’s work. Just found your channel and it’s great! Subscribed.

[@lilly-xg8gv]

Denethor was a man with lots of insecurities. When he was young, Aragorn(under the alias Thorongil) pushed him to the second place in the hearts of his father and the people,though he was almost as good as Aragorn. _"[Denethor] was as like to Thorongil as to one of nearest kin, and yet was ever placed second to the stranger in the hearts of men and the esteem of his father."_ Boromir had the qualities (which he must have thought) that differentiated Thorongil from him and won him great esteem. Faramir had 'loser' qualities like him. Only if poor Denethor had a bit more self esteem and saw himself as the great man he really was. He gets lots of praise even from Gandalf whom he despised.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

That really sums it all up in a very nice manner. I wish I had seen that myself, taking more of a psychology approach. This really cast a new light upon the relationship in that family. Thanks for the knowledge!

[@evanharrison4054]

It's a quite common theme throughout history, great men going bad because they feel small in the shadows of even greater men. I always saw Denethor as an unsung hero. He kept Gondor in one piece, during what was possibly one of the darkest periods of the history of Middle Earth. He gave his all to protect his people, from a political position that did not rightfully belong to him. That's an impossible amount of strain on anyone. They say a true hero is one who does his duty, and then steps aside. His attempt at murder-suicide seems like a brutal overreaction at first, but it was probably the only way to avert Gondor from falling into a civil war. I'm not saying that his misuse of the palantir and the death of his favorite son didn't contribute to his decision making process, but I always liked to think that a smart man like Denethor would realize that many people might, in fact, support him in a possible leadership dispute. He knew that his days were over, and he refused to endanger the people he served for all those years. Sure, he made a lot of mistakes, especially by the end, but he also managed to protect an entire kingdom, so close to Mordor, for over three decades. That deserves a plaque, if nothing else.

[@VTdarkangel]

@@evanharrison4054 I think you're being a little generous in regards to Denethor. I see him as a tragic hero figure not unlike Hamlet, Othello, or MacBeth. He's a good man brought down by his own weaknesses and insecurities. He did do a lot of good in his life, but his pride and arrogance with regard to Gandalf and then his inability (although understandable) to compose himself when faced the crushing blows of losing his son and wife while having to defend the city during its darkest hours lead to his downfall. His attempt at murder-suicide was an act of madness and not an act to avoid civil war. If civil war was his concern, all he would have had to do would be recognize Aragorn as the true king and pledge his fealty to him. Denethor's supporters would have done the same.

[@evanharrison4054]

@@VTdarkangel Haven't you ever seen a defeated man, grossly overreacting to a situation? He sat next to a throne for 35 years, running the greatest kingdom of Man, defending an entire realm from destruction. Yes, he looked into the palantir, and yes, he went mad, but when you consider the greater picture, you kind of realize that one way or another, he was going to fall. Just look at Theoden, before Gandalf showed up. Denethor was carrying a weight that wasn't his, against a force too great for him to fight. In many ways, he did a great service to everyone by seatwarming for Aragorn while he was out having adventures, getting ready to grow up to being king. I never said he wasn't mad, or that he didn't fail in many ways. What bothers me, is that while people view Boromir's ultimate sacrifice(which was kind of necessitated due to his own fault) as redeeming, while everyone thinks of Denethor as an evil character. Think of it this way: You are doing a job of your boss while he is away for 35 years, and then he suddenly shows up when the world is literally falling apart. From his perspective, he was screwed either way. I'm just assuming that a man of his position and character, would accrue a lot of enemies during his tenure, who would love to settle scores with him when he's nothing but the ex-ruler of Gondor. I'm happy to debate the possibilities of what would have happened to him if he just quietly stepped aside, but I think we can both agree, that not unlike many of his contemporaries, he did not really have a chance to truly succeed, despite many of his amazing qualities. Had he been but some regional governor, he would have lived a happy life, but due to Melkor's dissonant music, he was essentially prevented from ever living up to his true potential. He did his best, and I like to think that that matters for something. Just consider for a minute, how much darkness he had to witness for all those years. By the time the truly bad things started happening, he was a spent, tired old madman. Considering all that, I'd say he handled 80% of the situation properly. The remaining 20% being that he sent his favorite son to death, and then tried to avenge that by attempting to cause the death of his second son twice. I'm not excusing his actions. I merely try to amend them by stating that up until that damned Ring became an issue, Denethor was doing a proper job, considering the circumstances. All I'm saying, is that we will never know how good a ruler Denethor would have been during peacetime, and we'll never know how Aragorn would have handled being a king during the previous three decades of brutal war. Things kind of worked out afterwards, but I believe that both of them were required for that to happen. Denethor, in the grand scheme of things, was no less an important figure than Aragorn, or Frodo or anyone else. Disagreements aside, everyone did their best to work towards the common goal of preserving the good things in the world. Bilbo had to find and then keep the ring, Gandalf was meant to figure it out, Frodo was meant to carry the Ring and Sam was meant to carry Frodo. Everything was just a piece of a larger thing. Denethor played his part well.

[@tgbluewolf]

Putting it like that, it's ironic that he saw himself in Faramir, and sad that he didn't sympathize with that. Instead, he did what everyone had done with him and Aragorn. He became like the very thing that hurt him.

[@tankgrief1031]

One of the things I disliked about the films was the portrayal of Faramir as being tempted by the ring. In the book, he is more than aware of its peril right from the beginning, and isn't tempted. Faramir is the foremost man of his generation after Aragorn. Jackson's portrayal dimishes him.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Exactly! Well spoken!

[@larky368]

As bad as Jackson ruined Faramir's character I think that what he did to Aragorn was even worse. To kill the Mouth of Sauron during a parley was an act of treachery worthy of a servant of the Dark Lord. Didn't he say to Frodo in the book that he wouldn't decieve even an orc?

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

True that. That horrible scene is just the opposite of what Aragorn and his allies represent.

[@devaughnjohnson]

Sauron sent his mouth piece to mock them and brag about killing Frodo what did he expect Sauron will kill them all Aragorn new this.

[@richardyamato]

actually one of my favorite charcters and Éomer totally underrated

[@janebennett9930]

After having just read LOTRS for the 20th time at least over the past 50 years, I completely agree with you. He wasn’t portrayed correctly in the film and that is a shame.

[@guilhermepaivabrito9619]

The two characters that I envisioned most differently comparing the books and the movies are Frodo himself and Faramir. How much they could communicate without having to speak that much, how much they could understand each other - Frodo with his prior vicarious knowledge he acquired from Bilbo and by his earnest interest in the world at large - differently than all of the hobbits, just as Bilbo, I suppose- and his burden on one side, and Faramir with so much vision and wisdom... I haven't even seen your video yet, but I will. I'm just dropping by the comment section to say those are certainly two of the characters that are greatly nuanced and enriched if you experience the books. Thanks again for the video!

[@ericdudley4169]

Odd. Having never read the books but having seen the movies several times and the extended editions, I always felt Faramir was depicted as a man of great measured strength and honor. He resisted the power of the ring although he felt compelled to return the ring to his father and use it to help defend Gondor as his brother Borimir and his father wanted. Yet he knew the evil of the ring and resisted it, ultimately letting Frodo and Sam go to destroy the one ring. He was a brave warrior who is reasonable, fair, and compassionate. I had that clear impression from the movies only.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

Interesting to read that! One important difference between the books and films is that Faramir does not seem to care that much about what his father would want if it seems unwise to him. In the books, he never attempts to hinder Frodo's mission, while in the films, he makes a similar mistake like Boromir, but he too makes up for it quickly after.

[@PJ818]

To me Faramir in the books has the wisdom to know Gandalf's council is the best, and the insight to wisely guess what Frodo has, how it lead to Boromir's downfall, and is wise enough to know he doesn't want to be tempted by the thing that lead to his brother's destruction.

[@haydenggallen]

Thanks for creating this channel, it’s just been discovered by me, I love this kind of commentary!

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Fantastic!

[@teeheeteeheeish]

The movies also portrayed Gondorian warriors incredibly poorly. Each of them was worth ten orks on the battlefield at a minimum.

[@michaelstark8720]

Another excellent video. I would love that they included his line from books how he doesn't love sword for its brightness nor arrow for its swiftness, but he love what they defend Keep with great work ;)

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

I also love that line!

[@JS-mf1ki]

Thank you so much. Faramir was my first ever book crush and I was incredibly upset when I watched the movie's protrayal of him

[@bjrnlkling4018]

Særs gode "narrator-skills", underholdende å høyra på. Bra kanal.

[@DonMeaker]

Denethor loved his wife, who Faramir resembled. Seeing Faramir reminded Denethor of her death, for which Denethor blamed himself.

[@danepatterson8107]

Wonderful exposition! Great job. This Hobbits' Birthday has really opened up my KZbin subscriptions!

[@Jakblade]

Faramirs wisdom was unmatched for a man. To me, he was almost the example of the perfect person. I wish he played a larger roll in the book but played such a massive roll even still.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

I agree! He played an important role.

[@tgbluewolf]

If I remember correctly, he didn't even exist, originally; Tolkien said he just popped into the story at the last minute (or something to that affect). I'm glad he did, he's my favorite and imho highly underrated!

[@mxdnight2445]

I always imagined Faramir like this. Even when I watched the movie, and I watched it before I read the books.

[@mareshore6905]

Who doesn't love film LOTR? - But. I know someone who sez he almost walked out of the theater over Faramir's depiction in the films, and can't say I blame him. Will never understand some of Jackson's choices for Aragorn, Faramir, and even the Arwen overload in the films. It's as tho Jackson believed the audience wouldn't get it if he didn't throw in a pretty romance complete with a questionable "dying" (Arwen) and extreme character simplification at times. IMO Faramir in the books is far more compelling, as is Aragorn and Denethor.

[@bungouyevsky]

Faramir is my second favourite character (the first one is Aragorn), and I guess I really did the right thing by reading the books first. Because really while I was watching the movies, Faramir's scenes disappointed me and If I had watched the movies before I would definitely feel annoyed by Faramir for nothing. He is one of the best written characters in the series. And thank you so much for making this video. I want to show this video to my brothers to tell them that Faramir is actually a very special character. They only have watched the movies. And can you please let us to add subtitles to this beautiful video? :)

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

I will make it possible to add subtitles! Thanks for your feedback! I watched the movies first and I hated both Denethor and Faramir, but that perspective were widely changed when I read the books. There's a large difference! I too love Faramir, and he is among my top 3 from Tolkiens universe!

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

It should be possible to add subtitles now! Inform me if it does not work!

[@bungouyevsky]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT I've added both Turkish and English subtitles but some words might be heard mistaken by me since I'm not a native English speaker. However I'm sure of the Turkish subtitles, there will be no problem.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

@@bungouyevsky Thank you! That's real awesome!

[@bungouyevsky]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT My pleasure and also thank you so much for letting me to do this job :')

[@rollerdavem]

THANK YOU for stanfing up for poor maligned Faramir! I grieved at the movie adaotation's handling of this beloved character.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Happy to see that someone else loves Faramir!

[@maximummax9851]

So he loved his son but overcome by grief and corruption

[@egilgavelinparker7844]

Just found your channel and I love it! Not to mention your nice voice but man your music in the background is so nice

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Thanks for the positive feedback! BTW, is that a picture of Terje Vigen?

[@GUMMRUCHK]

Would be interesting to see how the Fellowship would have gone if Faramir was in the Fellowship and Boramir stayed with his father would also be interesting to see Boramir defending Minas Tirith during the siege.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Yeah it would indeed have been interesting!

[@LadyFreyaRose]

I agree that Faramir was handled really poorly in the Two Towers movie. The way he treats Gollum is particularly offensive 😒😤😑 I think I could have been OK with Faramir taking the ring to Gondor if he had been kind to Frodo, Sam and Smeagol along the way. It also would have worked of they played up the "spies of the white wizard" angle, so Faramir takes them to Gondor because he just can't trust they aren't an enemy. Maybe their defenses have been betrayed twice already, and recently too. Heck, maybe Faramir doesn't even know Frodo has the ring, he only suspects he has some weapon for the enemy. Then, when the Nazgul attacks Frodo, he could realize Frodo has the ring and, after hearing the hobbit's resolve to destroy it, sets them free. You can do little tweaks like that for drama without ruining a character's representation. That being said, I do think he's closer to Book Faramir in ROTK, especially if you watch the extended edition. I think he is given more gentle scenes, he is shown as noble. You can better see his love for Gondor, and his resistance to evil.

[@RoberttheFox0001]

Thank You. I was exceptionally displeased with the changes to Faramir's character in the very good movies.

[@danjackson4149]

i cannot believe that, upon discovering a halfling had entered his land, that sauron would be so dim as to not be capable of putting two and two together, and realise that it would be a good idea to guard orodruin closely. sauron must have realised once he made the one ring, that having put a great part of his power into it, that it was his ONLY weak spot. its impossible he would not have considered the possibilty of its intentional destruction. yes of course, it would be far more likely to have been wielded by an enemy leader, but given his entire backstory, but its just too far fetched to think he wouldn't have smelled a rat.

[@tgbluewolf]

Pride often turns people into fools. He thought that the ring was too powerful, it's influence too strong to be destroyed, and that hobbits were too weak and insignificant to affect him. He thought the ring could only be destroyed by physical strength, not fortitude.

[@normis6620]

A moment of silence for the poor portrayal of Faramir in the movies. F

[@RicoThingol]

Amazing video. Love those synths at the start

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Thanks!

[@MoonlightDawnMoolightDawn]

Beautifully done!! Faramir is an all time favorite of mine. In fact my favorite LotR characters are the family of Stewards (Denethor, Faramir and Boromir). I like the PJ films - I liked the extra tension and drama -- but the books are the best - superior!

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

My favourite lotr characters is the same man!

[@drobinson-uo7ic]

Denethor was much more shrewd in the books, very insightful and almost a rival to Gandalf, but his insight was corrupted by the palantir and his grief over his wife and Boromir.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Well said!

[@anshul9462]

Movie did a great injustice to characters of Boromir, Faramir and their father Denethor.

[@andrewwilliams2353]

I very strongly disapprove of EVERY character change the film makers made. Faramir is entitled to sue for defamation of character. Aragorn and Gandalf were made so feeble they might not have bothered to be there. Even Sauron was turned into a pathetic red lighthouse. Jackson can only produce crude coarse and superficial film events. Even the Ringwraiths lost all their menace and terror. As for the Elves ! don't get me started on that bunch of girlie-boys !! With the exception of Legolas portrayed by Orlando Bloom in a bleached wig, they were drippy and powerless. I quite liked Galadriel though I did NOT go for Jackson's depiction of Lothlorien at all. He made it creepy while Tolien depicted it as an earthly paradise. Tolien 10/10 - Jackson 1/10

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Agreed about how disappointing the character arc was for Film Faramir. That was the series' second biggest sin, the greatest of which was Frodo ditching Sam on the Stair of Cirith Ungol (which was completely and utterly vile).

[@LadyFreyaRose]

I love the LOTR movies but *man* I can't stand that change!! Frodo and Sam breaking fellowship??? Why?? 95% of the movie changes I understand, and they don't bother me too much but the Frodo and Sam thing, and Faramir's portrayal in Two ToweRS, get me angry EVERY TIME.

[@matthewmcmanus1274]

Thanks, Faramir was always one of my favorite supporting characters, in the books, and I HATED what Peter Jackson did to his character.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

We are of equal minds!

[@palawajoko1]

Hi, i love your Third age videos on your old channel. Is there any chance to watch you playing Third Age again at a point?

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

I am sorry but I am done with DaC for now. I might do one let's play for fun at some point.

[@palawajoko1]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT Maybe when the v4 of DAC comes out ;)

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

@@palawajoko1 Ye perhaps :)

[@hansson2000]

in the movies - faramir is the captain we all should aspire to be we should recongnize ourself in him, he can be tricked, he can wish for power even for selfless matters, but we can also learn from our past mistakes like from our brother

[@CardboardArm]

I think people exaggerate how different Faramir is in the movies. What he does in the movies is what he *wants* to do in the books except his wisdom immediately makes him reject it. He still comes across as the wiser and more gentle version of Borromir. Denethor, Saruman, Gimli, Legolas etc. all have vital parts of their character missing. Faramir is just a less perfect version of himself. But I admit that I prefer this change. Because Faramir rejecting the ring so easily after 8/9 walkers do the same made me feel like the corrupting power of the ring was not much of an issue. But I suspect a lot of people identify themselves with Faramir (Tolkien himself did) which is why it bothers them more than the previously mentioned characters.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

I still feel he was pretty neglected, for my part! What you say is also true though!

[@videoexpert27]

I agree with you. Faramir is my favorite character from the movies because he is imperfect yet he manages to do the right thing and he isn't changed that much. And Tolkien might have otherwise created too many too perfect good guys, so it gives nice contrast. Denethor would have needed more explaning though

[@benjaminaissaoui4956]

Love your work, keep it up !

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Thank you :)

[@James-oj6ck]

Well done video. Good points.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@aleksander8497]

I agree completely. Denethor in the film is a cringe inducing character after reading the book. Too shallow and simplistic. And Faramir is a noble character that deserved a better plotline in the film, though it was not all bad.

[@allicide166]

The movies screwed him in the two towers, but did much better with him in ROTK, especially the extended version.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

Hi Aleksander :-) What do you think about the fact that Legolas and Gimli, too, apparently never showed a desire for the ring? Is it because of some special powers they have, did Tolkien want to avoid writing about even more treachery within the fellowship, or is it for other reasons?

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Very interesting question. I think both Gimli and Legolas knew better essentially, and they did not have the same reasons to claim it as some others. The Ring would likely attempt to influence those that would need it most, like Boromir. I dont have a good answer for this one, but I think that the Ring kind of chose Boromir.

[@debbie4503]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT On this point we agree

[@walterfielding9079]

THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!

[@samanthafox3124]

I really wanted to see this video, but the music is way too distracting and loud, it just gets in the way like a pesky fly you can't get rid of. So eventually I had to turn this off before too long.

[@PJ818]

To me Faramir is noble, wise, and insightful; to ne these are the traits that make him so great.

[@RicoThingol]

Awesome music in the background

[@purplespeckledappleeater8738]

I always liked the Faramir from the movies and his character just got nerfed down a bit, not completely altered.

[@turtle6265]

A really nice video. Thank you.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Glad you liked it!

[@rirri-chan6752]

Faramir was and is one of my favourite characters in LOTR.

[@bigsilvernote313]

I saw the movie and readed the book, I see your point but, I preffer the movie faramir as I as a teacher in my classroom see students doing their best and getting no reconition from their parents which actually preffer or focus in the older brother, specially if its a boy. Myself included, idintify with the faramir of the movies, trying to please my parents to get their favor.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Yeah that is stronger in movie Faramir and it always depends what one identify.

[@bigsilvernote313]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT I really hated Denethor in the movie the way he treated Faramir was so unfair, and only realized his mistake once it was, according to his believe, to late, and Faramir was "dead", I enjoyed the way He died burned to a crisp while falling from a cliff, was pretty satisfying.

[@joshuafuentes8224]

Why wasn’t characters like Imrahil and Beregond included in the film?

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

I really miss them too, but I think they wanted to restrict themself and not include too many characters.

[@lauramaniscalco7742]

Actually I do not think that there is a very strong different in the caracter between the book and the movie. Faramir doesn not take off the ring: he only is thinking about and even with the same word used in the book.

[@danjackson4149]

quick appraisal of the films: style over substance. i really can't believe that peter jackson was ever a fan of the books as he would never have ballsed up so many pivotal moments of the story, nor have twisted characters so completely out of shape from what they are in the books. time and time again he failed to remain true to the spirit of the story. i praise everyone else involved in the film, but the (RE)writers should be left to shelob ! Before you re-watch the films, do yourself a favour and read the books all the way through. but cynical types beware: the first chapter of the trilogy is essentially a bridging chapter, where it has to accomplish the difficult task of going from the tone of a childrens book (the hobbit) to an adult fantasy epic (lord of the rings) if you can survive the first chapter or so, you will have a fantastic read ahead of you, and a much better insight into the (in places) rather cartoony let-down parts of the films, with all their appalling character distortions.

[@elizabeth1703]

Exactly, thank you.

[@GarretGarlinger]

Great video. I strongly disagree about the movie-making him look bad. I think they did portray him this way in the movie very well I always thought so. The only thing I would agree with was the part were they beat Gollum that was not good and I agree with you on that. Why do you think that about the movie? I don't see it and I'm a big lotr buff on this stuff. But I can understand your logic and point that you said that.Thanks for an awesome video! I think Faramir might be one of my favorite characters. This video makes me think so even more now.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Thanks for a great comment! Faramir is certainly one of my favourites too!

[@Jakblade]

I love your opinion on him. It made me feel better. Haha.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Glad to hear that!

[@venkelos6996]

While I get the dissatisfaction people have for this portrayal, I think it is one I actually like. How many people must we see be close to the Ring, and just say "nah", like it has less power? How many other people do we need to see who could topple Sauron with it, like he's a minor inconvenience? This is also one of numerous reasons I am so glad Jackson excluded Tom Bambadil; one of my least favorite characters in the entire legendarium, for his pure pointlessness. "Oh, I'm older than that trinket, and it had no power over me, bur don't worry; I won't take the chance to be heroes from you, since I think you'll have a lot of fun with that!" It's also why I'm so glad the elves come to Helm's Deep, in the movies, and die in droves. In the book, they are Sauron's enemy; the one he most wants to control, and who have a nice 'get out of war free card, since they can just hop on boats, sail to Valinor, and leave Men to their fate. I prefer them wanting to knave with purpose, instead of immortal cowards Illuvatar often favors. Anyway, I like that Faramor has to try, and even gas a little development, instead of just being great, staying great, and more. Aragon is much the same; in books he's confident, fearless, and already basically king in all but name, while in the movie he wonders if he be like so many other Men, and not worthy. Even most of Numenor wasn't good, and it got sunk for a trifle, while Sauron at hus worst wasn't stopped. Mordor didn't fall into the earth. Sauron wasn't destroyed by Eru Illuvatar's wrath with Numenor. Of the worthy who did sail away, only Isildur really lived, sad even he fell precipitously quick, marring Aragorn's hopes. I know a lot is evil exists, and men are tested,; for every Sodom and Gammora, God stays His hand many more times,, but them I prefer to see the likes of Aragorn and Faramir seem tested, and pass, instead of just "be great" and do nothing.

[@mr.s2005]

they did have to ruin Faramir's character in the movie sense they showed Aragorn being afraid and being tempted by the ring and showing Faramir straight from the book would have seemed better then Aragorn. Only thing I would disagree on the portray of the father son relationship wasn't that bad compared to the book, both versions Boromir was clearly favored and Faramir was just treated as an after thought. Both his ability and loyalty were questioned openly by Denethor several times in the book. While Faramir's coma was what drove him over the edge, one of Denethor's last lines showed he would have preferred an heir that didn't listen to Gandalf, showing he still couldn't fully accept his son the way he was.

[@wolftal1178]

It’s true the films did not do faramir Justice, and the portrayal of Denathor Hating his son and being incompetent was far too much exaggerated. Faramir is one of my all time favourite characters from tolkien as is Aragon and Beren. and Isldur,Although he did not destroy the ring the film is portrayed him as a weak willed power hungry man when in truth he may have been possessive and protective over the ring but he was not corrupted or controlled, (not at that stage anyway), he was the one who cut the ring from salons hand and saved the cutting of the original white tree which was destroyed by the black numenorians in numenor And truly was one of the most unique men in Tolkien’s work. You could have mentioned in the video his most humble yet strong phrases “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

I missed out on that. That quote always fills me with love for Faramir.

[@wolftal1178]

Lore of Middle-Earth Yeah me too it really gives you a great respect and love for Faramir.

[@arisgribas2231]

Do a Boromir one !

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

I will at some point, love all those brothers!

[@Laurence0227]

Superhuman? You sounds like Faramir is gonna come back piloting a Gundam or something

[@AL-ds7px]

So denethor is not considered lesser men? I got to buy these books man.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

He is considered among on of the greatest men. Read the books this summer!

[@louis-paulharris940]

hello. im sorry but the movie never made faramir look bad. but gave the look he knew who smeagle was or what he became due to observation. it was his power to find out what was happening even if he gotta look more mean and evil. but all was for a truthful answer. he sacrificed himself for it

[@thezord6686]

I'm in the minority that I myself prefer the movie mersion of Faramir than his book counterpart. Because it makes his character development more interesting than in the books. In the books there are only very few interesting characters. Book Faramir is static character where he is flawless and ununteresting. In the movie he has flaws which makes it dynamic, which to be honest is interesting at least for me. I'm not saying That I hate Faramir but for me I prefer Boromir as a character he is more interesting and prestigious. Faramir is a cool character and the better brother. However, he doesn't live up to be called a prestigious character and an interesting character at least for me. This is just my opinion so please don't hate me or dislike me because I know Faramir is more likeable since most Tolkien fans thinks Faramir is a greta character and indeed he is. After all it's a a matter of preference.

[@welldubs1994]

Id love to hear more on our hero

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Faramir is my favourite character. In him I see the qualities everyone should desire and strive for.

[@perperson199]

Er det en norsk dialekt jeg hører?

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Riktig :)))

[@AramakiMakisan]

Farimir's movie depiction ruined the Trilogy for me.

[@debbie4503]

I read The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings trilogy. I haven't seen The Return of The King. After reading these comments, I don't think I will.

[@xnet_cascade6257]

Yes!!! My favorite character

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Mine too!

[@DavidAndersen84]

I disagree with your analysis of the film version of Faramir. I think you make some interesting points, but the movie is more complex than your description.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Yeah it's more complex, but the book is even more complex :)

[@DavidAndersen84]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT Agreed.

[@jeffhallam2004]

Another knockout video and I agree that they didn’t give enough attention in the movies to the “men” of Middle Earth but thank God the books did!

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Glad to hear you have read the books, they are simply a masterpiece. I read them every summer, my favourite part of the year!

[@ayoitsyayo]

Cali brim BOAR

[@GUMMRUCHK]

I'm kinda okay with beating Gollum. lol

[@o00nemesis00o]

It wasn't in the theatrical release... Fellowship Extended was fine, but Return of King Extended was a bit of a joke overall.

[@bsnhbksan]

They didn't ruin Faramir, he still goes on the be great, what they did was give him more context, make him more real - on account of all the burdens placed on him.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

That's also a perspective, but I still disagree :)

[@bsnhbksan]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT I really like your videos btw, I just realised that this isn't one of my usual LOTR channels that I subscribed to and watch, and chanced upon this video. Anyway, your content and quality is on par with those older channels - and I've just subscribed to yours, keep up the great work :)

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

@@bsnhbksan Thank you, lovely to hear that!

[@nuttawutnumpet3393]

you are german?

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Norwegian :)

[@darylliguid6724]

A very noisy video. Not advisable to all lore seekers. Back music is inappropriate

[@Domina7ion]

It would be interesting to analyse the racist and ungenicist themes in lotr. They've always made me feel uncomfortable. In lotr there is a definite tier list of human races, with the numenorians at the top and the haradrim and easterlings at the bottom. I can sometimes get away with it by looking at it as being written by the sons of numenor, so therefore being biased in their favour(if you've ever read a english history book before 1920, it reads very similarly). But I would like to see the 'lesser' peoples of middle earth painted in a more forgiving light in adaptions. Less white = more naturally evil is so hideously outdated!

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

This is a very solid point. I hope that in the upcoming series, Amazon will picture the Drúedain. They are completely wept of their lands by the Númenóreans, very much like the conquistadors conquered much of America. If you look at the Haradrim and such, they are basically people corrupted bu Sauron, they are not evil in themselves. It was a very interesting topic indeed. I will write it down, and might make a video of it at a later point! Thanks!

[@Domina7ion]

@@LoreOfTheRingsYT Good point about the Druedain. I think the feeling I get from the books is that the Southrons and Easterlings were corrupted *because* they were 'lesser' men. I think a great spin-off story could be how Sauron presented himself as a unifying and protective force for the 'good' of their nations, agaisnt some external threat (perhaps the blue wizards gone rogue?). Once he had got them on side he could then turn them against the men of the west. The films and, to a lesser extent, the books, present Sauron as so cartoonisly evil, that I find it hard to belive how any humans could fight for him while still thinking they are the good guys.

[@gailf1617]

Tolkien also makes it clear that some of Numenorean blood are not such perfect individuals: they colonize and, I believe, enslave some of the peoples of Middle-earth; many of them fall for Sauron's corrupting influence; and later, when Numenor is long gone, its distant heirs nearly destroy Gondor in the Kin-strife. And it's two hobbits, not Numenoreans, who save Middle-earth from Sauron.

[@lancebloke]

@@Domina7ion I am not sure about that. It was the Numenorians that Sauron corrupted which resulted in their downfall. Gondor had several instances of civil war for the sake of power. A lot of the Nazgul were men of the west. Even the Elves murdered each other en masse several times. We really don't know enough about the nations of the east and south of Middle earth and why they did what they did. While I don't want to speak for Tolkien and his views of people of different ethnicity, I dont think he does much that picks out these groups as any more or less than each other in the end.

[@o00nemesis00o]

"Less white = more naturally evil"... says you. The consequence of a people being dictated by Sauron is that they will do evil things. It is quite easy for you, 'Dom Minniti', to lounge around in an ivory tower built by better men and idly shoot off remarks about how great works of literature have some unavoidable aspects that make you 'feel uncomfortable'. Let us know instead when you have made something great of your own.

[@intuendaecivilization9365]

Faramir seems like a actual man in the movies, compared to the books.

[@d.maxwell8669]

A story with characters that are all either stereotypical good guys or stereotypical bad guys is boring. This is one of the criticisms of George RR Martin, and is the reason why GOT characters are usually very nuanced. Faramir, being just another version of an ideal man among a sea of other ideal men, wouldn't stand out at all, and would be very forgettable. However ideal and wonderful he is, he'll just be another disposable 2 dimensional character in a story filled to the brim with other characters. And that will be a true shame.

[@donkloos9078]

Really hard to understand what you are saying with thick accent. Try a narrator...

[@James-oj6ck]

Well done video. Good points.

[@LoreOfTheRingsYT]

Glad you enjoyed it