The REAL Problem With Velma

[@RoundtableVids]

because warner bros is butthurt and tried to claim the video we had to trim out some of the beginning. all of the actual critique should still be intact!

[@shybean4life240]

Was about to comment how sentences keep cutting XD

[@MothGodSpectreDXIX]

I was a lil concerned my boy Also Warner Bros. salty behinds bruh 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

[@blackalgae370]

I was gonna say the video and audio was properly synced up before but when I showed it to my wife it was out of sync

[@josevillanueva2944]

"woke media" does exist by bothering denying unless some people are part of the problematic media. But here is the thing this Velma show is just a self insert of the fascist responsible of that disaster.

[@sarov7658]

The msheu shit is almost every women heroes just he Mary sue without any char and praised as a hero when being a terrorist in flacon or being a psycho in wandavision

[@LowellLucasJr.]

If anything, I feel sad for Frank Welker. He plays Freddie's dad in this series and you could tell it pains him to see how far his character is being dragged down that he originally played!

[@harnanmylvaganam6311]

Poor Megatron

[@St_Moloch]

He deserves better honest,, :-[

[@jonathan4158]

They shouldn't made Fred a spoiled brat and a racist. He's basically the leader and guy who made traps.

[@popcultureoverdosed]

On a side note, fred's dad is so hot

[@Kembi_Mekemo]

@@harnanmylvaganam6311 poor Garfield :(

[@glitchberry327]

“They don’t smoke weed, THEYRE JUST LIKE THAT” is the most relatable sentence I’ve ever seen on this channel

[@JosmaMeric]

I hope the animators and artists for this show get work on a project that isn't horrible. They need a real chance to shine.

[@artistanthony1007]

Here's the thing though, lots of them enjoyed this.

[@hamonryechinaski180]

Nah, it's more Cal Art shit

[@chriscarlin3972]

The art direction and style is generic and looks like every other poorly drawn American series from the last decade

[@Carossmo]

@@hamonryechinaski180 but people shit on Big Mouth too... No one is satisfied.

[@ahsokatano9101]

@@hamonryechinaski180 🙄

[@LowellLucasJr.]

What confuses me is Velma snarky attitude of putting down others. Does she think she's smarter for doing it or does it make her feel better?

[@joelroman6839]

Both

[@viniciusgoulart5077]

She does it because she's so quirky-

[@MizGizma]

Well ... its kinda in line with Mindy's real personality.

[@Vastilious]

@@MizGizma it is exactly

[@admissful8180]

@@MizGizma i hate that velma is just mindy kaling smart self insert i feel like watching the show is just watching mindy kaling make fun of riverdale

[@Shadowluigi-pj9nq]

The "I DON'T VOICE NORVILLE!" was way funnier than anything in this terrible show

[@nintendoboy3605]

But that's just a lie

[@Es_gee]

@@nintendoboy3605 how? Sam Richardson is the one who voices him, not Vox

[@nintendoboy3605]

@@Es_gee Don't worry I am just joking

[@Es_gee]

@@nintendoboy3605 ohhh...I didn't know( I have trouble with understanding jokes. It's a clinical issue)😅😅. My bad

[@nintendoboy3605]

@@Es_gee It's fine lol

[@TakeTheWorld21]

Even though Velma is the worst thing I’ve ever seen, my one form of almost praise is how it has made all of us go back in rewatching all of the older Scooby-Doo movies and shows to remind us why we loved these characters growing up Side note: If any of you want an actual good M-Rated Scooby-Doo, just play Persona 4 Golden which comes out this Thursday on all consoles

[@erichfiedler1481]

Or watch the Supernatural episode where Sam and Dean get trapped in a TV showing an episode of the classic series

[@iampotatogaming1686]

That or Watch Mystery Incorporated. Theres a lot more mature elements in that show and a overarching story WITHOUT cussing, nudity, and just flat out whatever they came up with

[@ZekeorSomething]

@@erichfiedler1481 Scooby - Natural

[@iheartericcartman]

persona 4 golden is such a good game i love the entire persona series

[@thunderspark1536]

@@iampotatogaming1686 Honestly it's LESS realistic than Velma is, because real life high school is 90% stupid, spiteful, angry dumbass kids high on hormones who are all wrong. But the thing is, people HATE, DESPISE, real life, ESPECIALLY high school. People LOVE secret societies, ancient eldritch monsters, and big mysteries with real stakes. In mystery Inc, they're fighting a godlike beast that has influenced history throughout the founding of the town. In Velma...she's looking for her mother. It CAN work, but the start is not very good at all.

[@tyreewadsworth1593]

This show is actually bringing people together thru our collective hate of it

[@nont18411]

How they wrote Velma made me confused why the hell would Fred and Shaggy want to join her team in the first place? - Velma always gaslight Shaggy…I mean “NorViLlE” and treats him like trash, even humiliated him during the streaming to get money from him. - Velma body shamed Fred in public, made fun of his mental illness and framed him for the murder he didn’t commit out of spite. If any of them had self-respect, there’s no way they would want to see Velma again.

[@HobieInTheBox]

Absolutely the most hateable MC

[@sujanaryal833]

Don't call that character Velma, call her Mindy. Velma is not that disgusting as a character. That's Mindy trying to cosplay as Velma. And Velma doesn't have a beer belly like Mindy cosplay.

[@williammiller6330]

To be fair about norville's name, that's shaggy's real name. shaggy is a nickname.

[@derpfluidvariant0916]

@@sujanaryal833 I think Velma was actually on the chubbier side, but that might've just been me.

[@sujanaryal833]

@@derpfluidvariant0916 Velma wasn't thin in every versions, but her body proportions were always good. It's not that Mindy is fat here but she has a beer belly which looks bad.

[@chrisdiegobaines1250]

"they don't smoke weed, they're just like that" funniest line

[@cartho1103]

I'm convinced that this show was either A) just a joke between the writers and producers to make the worst reboot ever or B) an entirely different show that got rebranded at the last minute.

[@PerfectZeroMusic_]

or C) A show with a script entirely made up by AI (srly i can't believe this is a real thing that exists)

[@pokershadow373]

Or D). Attempt to appease the general media, a bunch of Tik-Tok crybabies who tear up on instagram live, because they were told something they disagree with, and blame it on the stereotypes targeted by this show to begin with. Lol

[@kaiser8659]

@@pokershadow373 actually dude not even they like this show. I checked out of morbid curiosity of if the expected audience liked it. They didn't. TikTok, Twitter, Tumblr. All of them hated this show as much as everyone else. This show appeals to absolutely no one.

[@pokershadow373]

@@kaiser8659 I suppose I should’ve said TRIED to appease

[@Ijustwatchthevids]

Willing to bet it's B

[@StarcoFanatic]

You know the saddest thing? I really wanted to like this show because I actually like the concept of Mystery Incorporated starting off as people who barely even like each other, but over the course of a series learn to not only like each other, but realize they actually work together pretty well. So it's a solid concept imo; unfortunately, that is the only thing it has going for it. It's really not a good show, which is sad since I love animated cartoons. And it's even the "wokeness" that bothers me at all, it's the forced humor and the annoying attempts to be "meta" but coming off as sheer laziness instead. Also, the over reliance on gore, drugs and sex simply because it's an "adult" show. So-called kids' shows have so much darker tones in them without the need to use that stuff to add shock value. Ugh.

[@justinehercthehuman]

To the people planning to watch it just to see how bad it is or just to hate it, PLEASE DON'T. We shouldn't give these people the views and the money. They should understand that what they made is not "so bad it's good". It just simply is SO BAD. Pirate it if you want to still suffer seeing it.

[@Lilitha11]

It actually was kind of so bad it's good. I wouldn't say it is as good as Venture Brothers as mentioned in the video, but it is still entertaining enough.

[@Chamelionroses]

@@Lilitha11 still Venture Bros is better...this alternate reality has nothing to do with the scooby doi series and just click baits.

[@g-coalitionbrother1729]

Nah, on the contrary, running into the criticism and reviews of this monstrosity made me actually want to watch some GOOD modern Scooby-Doo material. Which I'll probably try to do after work tonight.

[@alexandersolodovnikov4840]

Too late. It's already renewed for a second season.

[@diskmort]

@@g-coalitionbrother1729 I watched the "Scoob" movie recently, which is probably the newest Scooby Doo movie and it's unexpectedly pretty good (and if you say it's not good, just remember that it's still 100x better than Velma)

[@inkchip7351]

Imagine Scooby getting to say, "Oh Ruck Raggy...." I'd have died

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

XD

[@humbleowls]

Love how this vid actually felt like a roundtable with the inclusion of different voices and perspectives. I understand that coordinated videos like this one dont always make sense but it is something Id like to see more of.

[@tridek1949]

Seconded!

[@Peecamarke]

It’s still all male voices/round table tho, which is actually very impactful despite how normalized it is in nerd spaces

[@chaoticdarknessstudios.204]

When I first saw that Fred was the only white guy, I knew that they were going to butcher Fred. And I'm kinda glad Scooby-Doo wasn't in the show, so they couldn't butcher him.

[@foxman8344]

I just assumed Fred was the "leader" because he was the only one with a big enough vehicle to drive everyone around. And if I remember correctly, he also tended to be the only one driving in most iterations I've seen for the franchise. So I assume the only one with a license in most of versions of it. This whole show just feels like it's in REALLY bad taste. Velma was always the most respected and beloved character in the show rivalled only by Shaggy and Scooby taking the spot like. With her and Shaggy almost always getting the most fleshed out characterization.

[@MrEgofreak]

Yup. Hopefully we can just relegate this to the "bad" section of the Scooby-Doo multi-verse and call it a day.

[@tylerbarela2562]

Me too me too

[@JoesAnimationHub]

what's so hilarious about how BAD Velma did is that it's lower than "Dragonball Evolution" on Rotten Tomatoes, a bad film from a franchise that turned Matthew Lillard's Shaggy into the "Ultra Instinct" meme we know today. Velma got Ultra Instinct'd hard... wonder how many memes we'll get of Ultra Instinct Shaggy obliterating HBO and Velma with 1% of his power...

[@arthurpprado]

I feel a bit sad that both versions of Scooby-Doo aimed at a more mature audience lose something important from the original that makes it fun. Scooby-Doo Apocalypse lost the mystery aspect and turned into a survival horror story, while Velma loses the endearing characters in exchange for filling them with cynicism. At least Scooby-Doo Apocalypse managed to tell its story straight instead of trying to make cynical fun of itself and its audience the whole time

[@DaveTheAverageGamer]

"WHAT ABOUT THE DAM DOG" and "I DONT VOICE SHAGGY!" makes me roll on the floor for two minutes.

[@Dante-Balisk]

It feels awkward to me for the mystery gang to have any romance drama with one another before the gang is even formed. It would feel like stigma from a breakup would be a hindrance for the gang to form at all long term. I also dont remember everything about all the old backstories from the original scooby doo shows, but how I would see an origin for the mystery gang: 1. Each member comes from a different perspective of a rich household, or at the least their families saved up enough for them to go to a top tier school. Daphne probably already childhood friends with Fred or Velma. Velma's family probably immigrated and worked hard to get her into the school, and she struggles to socialize before bonding with Daphne. Daphne probably enjoyed mystery books such as Agatha Christie, which creates a shared interest with Velma's love of solving mysteries. 2. Shaggy also feels outcast at the school, probably paid for by his wealthy uncle and not interested in their expectations. Adopts scooby initially for emotional support. One of his parents were probably either inspired by hippy culture, or if people wanted to avoid the headcanon joke people have of Shaggy doing weed, they could make him interested in meditation and zen culture to help with his nervousness. 3. Fred's family probably a yacht club type of people, but he becomes more interested in engineering and working hands-on rather than relying on other people. He creates a personal project to fix up a broken down vehicle found early on, and as episodes progress, the broken down vehicle starts to gradually resemble more of the mystery machine with each member of the gang pitching in ideas to give it its familiar style. As the gang all become friends, Velma pitches the idea of solving mysteries and supported by Daphne. Shaggy and Scooby probably reject the idea at first. Fred may hesitate, but go with the idea after a talk with Daphne. 4. Some sort of mystery gets Shaggy involved anyways. The gang requires Scooby to sniff out a clue. During the investigation, Fred starts to feel a thrill and feel useful after learning to construct some makeshift traps that aid in the mystery, the sense of fulfillment further encouraging him to stick to the mystery gang concept. 5. Unpopular concept, completely rehaul Scrappy's personality so he isn't annoying but also isn't treated entirely like a joke character. Have some way where he still exists somewhere in scooby's timeline in a minor appearance, and perhaps with a supernatural connection to link the 13 ghosts series.

[@oliviamcnally7030]

I would honestly watch that show if the writing tried this angle! It’s pretty good!

[@zacharybartolo5111]

Awesome ideas! One of my favorite headcanons that I like to make is making Shaggy the inventor of Scooby Snacks, which are both a popular dog treat and human food. He gets massive royalties from it allowing him to not only buy as much food as he wants but also fund the gang.

[@Dante-Balisk]

@@zacharybartolo5111 That sounds good too. One way he could have inspired naming Scooby after the snack, or the other way with your idea, he inspires the creation of scoobysnacks and they gain popularity after solving one of their first big mystery cases and someone offers Shaggy and Scoob as a reward.

[@Vannabee13]

There's a live action fan made pilot that sets up a much better modern Scooby-Doo orgin story for the gang (that actually includes Scooby-Doo, go figure) I highly recommend looking it up on KZbin. Honestly my favorite part was how they handled Fred. He's a complete 180 from this version.

[@jasonfurumetarualkemisto5917]

@@Vannabee13 I love that it managed to tie in the 13 ghosts, Hex-Girls, Victor Van Ghoul and even fucking Flim-Flam without it feeling forced at all.

[@ratede91]

The funny thing is that alot of these shows are basically self inserts of the writers, and the characters in these shows end up being despicable people. So these modern Hollywood execs are basically exposing themselves and their abhorrent nature.

[@toon4thought]

This series just... Kinda makes me sad. Not just because it squanders what could've been a really cool and interesting setup with out of touch writing, but because the fact it so blatantly fans the culture war flames made THIS the show that you just can't escape from online. Which really makes me anxious in wondering whether or not the successful launch of this will lead to studios fueling more projects with similar intents, cause why bother telling a powerful story when you can get those rage points. I just want more creatively fueled projects out there, which yes can spawn from the success of anything - even this - but I dunno what to think rn.

[@mackennaberryhill2060]

The worst part about this show, at least imo, is that the producers of HBO Max even green-lit it in the first place. It just shows how little they respect people who consume their own content, and then leave Mindy Kaling to take all the backlash (she’s still a terrible writer for obvious reasons but still). Then, people get so outraged about the culture war aspects real problems get drowned out or ignored.

[@sleepyandsleepin]

And then the cycle repeats again and again....

[@cartuneslover18]

Can we have ONE cartoon where the chubby nerd girl isn’t treated as “ugly and disgusting”? I’m chubby and quite dorky and this show makes it sound like that’s a sin. While I don’t like Steven Universe, at least THAT show treated women of different bodies as different kinds of attractiveness. Now excuse me while I go watch “A Pup Named Scooby Doo”, a TRUE Scoob cartoon.

[@fatboysergio737]

I don't even remember Velma being treated like that in the other Scooby-Doo shows, she was even in a few relationships. I don't even remember her being "ugly and disgusting" she was just nerdy and wore non revealing clothing

[@goawayplease6456]

Willow park from the owl house. Chubby, nerdy, strong

[@theenderdestruction2362]

@@goawayplease6456 I imagine her chubbness is more muscle related but yes still slightly chubby

[@rankrodent2772]

Fat acceptance?? 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤢

[@rankrodent2772]

@@goawayplease6456probably a filthy queer judging by that show

[@davidbeaver21]

I just wanna know who hates fred this much because besides always going off alone with his gals he was a genuine and kind guy.

[@ArnoldFrost]

Mindy Kaling apparently...considering that she treats Velma as her self-insert fantasy character + Velma's racist and sexist remarks on him

[@MasterBlackers]

I completely agree with your analysis on the character of Velma. It's important to address and critique the problematic portrayals of characters in media, especially when it comes to representation and stereotypes. Your video highlights the issues with Velma's character in a thoughtful and nuanced way, and I appreciate the effort you put into researching and discussing this topic. Keep up the great work! Edit: tysm for ty likes guys :D

[@terrencelee9366]

So is A Pup Named Scooby Doo not canon? Because it feels weird to have watched that show and see characters like Fred regress from a kid that comes up with elaborate traps and idea to a guy that can’t even cut a steak .

[@MDGOLD]

I mean it canon to what new scooby doo since it was shown a flash back on that

[@donovan802]

As someone who watched reactions of the show when it came out, I was absolutely befuddled by its existence. The dialogue just doesn't work; they try to be clever with the meta jokes and have a lot of pop culture references, but not only do they use it TOO MUCH that it loses its luster very quickly, but as AwestruckVox and RetroNemo said, most of what Velma says is wrong. Artistically, it looks really great, and the fact they made Velma and Daphne an LGBT couple - I would consider it worthy of supporting if they weren't such jerks. There's little good for this. If I want to watch adult animation on HBO Max, I'd easily watch Harley Quinn (it helps that Harley and Ivy learn to respect each other's wishes and go through them together). If I wanted to watch a Scooby-Doo show, Mystery Incorporated all the way. The fact virtually all of Cartoon Network's library on the service along with classic Looney Tunes are gone and we get Velma, not necessarily as a replacement but still standing in their place (at least depending on how you view it), is baffling. No wonder the service is ending soon; the decisions among this company have been practically unforgivable. Apologies for this obviously heated comment, but with how there have been rumors and potential confirmations of a second season, I'll give this show the benefit of a doubt that it has a story - not necessarily a good one, and definitely not one that started good, but a story nonetheless, but first impressions are kinda integral in storytelling. I frankly don't care to support this show, even before I knew about the trailer (which was about five days after it was posted). If it turns out to be good, I won't watch it but I'll commend it. As it stands, this is a mess.

[@joshuaharris3039]

No apologies needed; genuinely enjoyed your critique. Thanks 😊

[@DetonatressM]

The so-called "2nd season" is actually the 2nd part of season 1 order. After that, if the show has not found its footing yet and if it doesn't satisfy the amount of views WBD wants out of it, it gets cancelled. I've watched both episodes on a shady website, and I can see it tries to redeem the equivalent of 4 very obnoxious Bojacks. It has until the middle of the season to make undeniable progress on at least one of these characters to make whatever audience sticks around see it as redeemable. And also to cool it with the meta humor that's ruining it.

[@galacticrainestorm8546]

About the LGBT Representation- I also have to add in they weren't just jerks but Velma seems to play into the mean lesbian stereotype and I'm pretty sure Daphne is meant to play into the whole cheater bisexual, or as much as I hate to say it since the characters are teens, sl/t bisexual stereotype(?) (I don't know if those are stereotypes but it's certainly stigmatization about bisexual people.), which I only say that because the show itself seems to be trying to push that. Pretty disgusting overall. Seeing the clip of Daphne/Velma kissing and hearing that apparently Daphne was dating Fred makes me so fucking angry. I get it when queer people are reclaiming or making fun of how stupid some stereotypes are. But this is straight up malicious it seems. It's just purposefully painting lesbians and bisexuals in a bad light.

[@CarissaNomadic]

Isn't this incarnation of Daphne dating Fred, though? Even without generally hateable characters, that speaks to an image of "bi people can't be loyal. They'll literally go for anyone else around them!", so it doesn't even have potential for LGBT presentation.

[@galacticrainestorm8546]

@@CarissaNomadic Exactly. I was PISSED when I found out apparently Daphne cheats. I do not care if it's meant to be satire or not, it's just blatantly pushing harmful stereotypes. Though I can't say too much about Velma, from what I've gathered she plays into the mean lesbian stereotype too. Both are probably trash representation

[@rebekahdiffendarfer4114]

As far as shaggy knowing a lot about drugs despite not doing drugs himself: when a kid has that trait, it’s usually because they have a family member that’s an addict. It’s more sad than funny.

[@TheGodzilla713]

There was a lot of potential for this show, I would love a series how these different characters got together. The idea that Freddy a rich kid trying to prove he has something to offer, Daphne showing she is more than a beauty queen, and Velma trying to beat geeky nature. The humor is juvenile "adult" humor seems to be 13 year olds trying to pretend to be older. The voice actors are trying and art style is great. The writing is not good.

[@kaiser8659]

Art style is great? It's just barely distinguishable from most modern western cartoons cookie cutter bean mouth art style. It gets the job done I guess but nothing to write home about when I could name over ten other cartoons like it

[@ohood1788]

@@kaiser8659 Dude the way shading and lighting is done in this show is really good and not nearly as common as you're trying to make it seem. I think there are a lot of problems with this show but the art and especially the coloring is certainly not one of them.

[@fieratheproud]

@@kaiser8659 Honestly, it does look good, and even if it's not the most unique style out there, at least it's not butt ugly. "Somewhat generic" is miles better than "Ugliest thing ever created". Plus, comparing to some well known adult cartoons, it's a lot more pleasing to look at. Exceptions exist of course, Invincible is beautifully stylized, it's just that generally "adult cartoons" seem to try to emulate Family Guy's style more than they should.

[@kaiser8659]

@@fieratheproud At least ugly cartoons are memorable

[@ruriva4931]

@@kaiser8659 the art style is pretty distinct idk what you mean. I’m having trouble thinking of a show that looks just like this one. I’m a big anime fan and anime really has a bunch of same face syndrome but even then there is a big difference between Violet Evergarden and Demon Slayer.

[@nlg7321]

Reminds me of a comment I read once: "they add "inclusion" and changing races just if in the case it fails, they can blame it on people been racist" I kind of a agree, you even said it , you dont liking the show doesnt mean you have a problem with velma been brown or liking girls. They can blame theif failure to racism, homophobia etc instead of the bad writing.

[@rankrodent2772]

I’m homophobic

[@no1u521]

@@rankrodent2772 okay?

[@oscarshedwick4862]

This feels like one of those horror movies that began as one thing and then the studio shoehorned it into an ip they owned for licencing reason

[@fatemakhan3843]

Mindy grew up with rich parents, never worked a day job & was handed a Hollywood job through her parents contracts & influences. So when she wrote Fred as a spoiled rich kid with no soul. Yeah i can definitely see she's really writing herself. This is what we in the business call "The Projection" & a classic Freudian Slip.

[@azrik6084]

The episode of Harvey Birdman is how you do an adult parody of a kids show. You crack jokes about the concept of characters without actually disrespecting them. This show also seems to constantly attack it's own audience which was already bad in teen titans go and isn't any better here.

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

Teen Titans Go was parodying Millenial and Gen Z fans who disliked the show since it was nothing like the original Teen Titans cartoon despite the fact the show is not aimed at them but is instead aimed at Gen Alpha children.

[@goblin_corpse]

How I picture the gang getting together is more like Losers Club like situation. . Velma is shy and socially awkward (poss on the spectrum) but feels relaxed around animals. She's smart, enjoys cozy games with minimal social interaction and is also surprisingly good at playing the piano. . Shaggy lives with his free-wheeling "fun mum" who acts more like a sister than a mum. She calls him 'Shaggy' because he looks permanently disheveled, which he dislikes. He also enjoys gaming but his favourite hobby is baking, which he discovers a knack for after making pot brownies for a party. . Scooby comes into the picture because something happens to one of Shaggy's neighbours and he ends up taking him in. His real name is Schubert but Shaggy thinks that's pretentious and changes it. . Shaggy meets Velma on a walk when Scooby runs up to her, nearly knocking her over. They bond over animals and gaming. . At school, Daphne arrives as a new student. She's popular due to her looks and fashion sense, but is actually somewhat of a closet metal head who enjoys horror films. . Fred is seen as a bumbling, air-headed pretty boy jock but he's actually pretty emotionally insightful. Not to mention he's a huge fan of magic and escapology. After being found out by Daphne they end up bonding over having to hide their interests in order to fit in. And that's as far as I got, was pretty fun though. 😊

[@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17]

The discourse around this show is one of the reasons I avoid Twitter

[@endless_sands]

1:44 we didn't hate the show because it was made by a woman, we hated it because it was bad.

[@JoeMamasBestie]

I went into it with an open mind. I said the exact same thing. They should've given this show its own identity and separated it from any other show. The jokes could stand on their own and it felt like a last minute thing. Like they didn't believe in the show itself

[@galacticrainestorm8546]

10:00 FUCKING HELL NOT THE CHEATING BISEXUAL TROPE That makes me so fucking angry. The other stuff made me very mad but especially this because this type of shit is why people still think bisexuals are more likely to cheat. I'm taking Velma show Daphne's bisexuality away. Ripping away the bi badge. It deserves to go to someone better.

[@deshawnedwards6412]

Norville is a alternate version of Shaggy, from a alternate universe where he has yet to discover the powers he possesses to become the powerful universal being his prime counterpart is. But is said if every uncover the powers he have within him he shall become Ultra Ego Norville.

[@ZekeorSomething]

A crack attic version of Shaggy at that

[@TheWholesaleHow]

Shaggy’s first date with Mary Jane lead him down a path of spiritual awakening and unlocking all his chi energy

[@commetsftw]

I like how Norville is the only somewhat okay character in the show. It shows that Shaggy is truly the saving grace in every bad timeline in the scooby-verse.

[@phillemon7664]

He’s not Universal, he’s Boundless.

[@0XBlondie96X0]

@commetsftw Funny how the character who's the least egregiously written is also the one who looks the least like the original character. Like if they just gave him a longish 'fro instead of short hair and a fade they could've made him actually look like black Shaggy instead of generic black guy wearing Shaggy's clothes

[@straightupclownery]

love the disapointed realization that scoobys not there. "and a talk d- oh wait..." got me rollin

[@deborahgoldenberg9090]

Someone really just needs to take Mindy Kahling out of showbiz. Then there can be more room for actually talented South Asian women who provide good rep

[@TheGoIsWin21]

Honestly the idea of Velma as a chronically online lunatic who harrasses everyone around her while constantly on witch-hunts due to trauma over her mother's disappearance could have been a wildly interesting story lodged in the center of a Scooby Doo setting that manages to make commentary on modern society whilst being clever and funny. Instead, we got this. Whatever it is.

[@psychomammoth9640]

10:34 I also love the fact that in that Venture Bros. episode, the gang is various depictions of serial killers and crazy people. Even the lines they had for that Velma variant only spouted out feminist manifesto quotes, and they were hilarious. Lol, also thought the dog was a sort of second in command to that hitler dog later in the series.

[@mariaklotz6629]

Its funny how the producers mentioned that the "new Daphne" is going to be more than "a hottie who wears purple" while sexualizing her in the first episode with that shower scene.

[@duckdog314]

Man poor Velma didn’t deserve this nor did the rest of the mystery gang

[@lalajones526]

It's just really nice hear Nemo, Tom and Vox together again.

[@EChacon]

And also Tom, come to think of it it’s been 8-9 months that Tom's voice was heard on one of the videos for the channel.

[@humbleowls]

Feels like a true roundtable discussion

[@danieljennings9617]

I can't believe the person who voices Shaggy dislikes the show so much

[@widowkeeper4739]

The animators were the only kids in the group project to actually tried to do the work and got let down by everybody else. The artists who worked on this production did an amazing job, and I'm really upset that it's THEM who are going to take the work rep hit for how sloppy and mediocre this show is in every other capacity.

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

I don't know. I agree the writers let the animators down. However I think so long as the animators can show on their resumes that "this is the art work I did and here are some art samples" then this is still usable work experience. Like even the animators for The Emoji Movie likely got good work experience from working on that movie. I don't think it really matters to employers what the animators were told to draw so long as they drew it well.

[@widowkeeper4739]

@@SurprisinglyDeep One would hope it would be that way, but being attached to a stinker in Hollywood often carries unfair stigma that impacts work oppertunities.

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

@@widowkeeper4739 Unfortunately true

[@ElectricBlu07]

I agree with everything y'all said. I was 15 minutes in watching it and getting more and more disturbed and I just couldn't put my finger on why. I finally said f*** it and just clicked to something else. I thought an adult Scooby-Doo show with real murder and death would have a more edgy appeal to it but the adult jokes are just way more than they need to be. It didn't make me laugh it just made me either roll my eyes or wonder what was up with the writing. Velma the character always had depth to me. This version of her in the show.......is it bad I wanna say I feel sorry for her or maybe I feel sorry for who made the show? I never watched Riverdale but the teen archs of the gang definitely do not appeal to me at all. I think they should go back to the drawing board with this show or maybe start over because I certainly do want an adult themed Scooby-Doo show. Scooby-Doo can be included or not but I definitely feel like a redo is in order.

[@binkyboy448]

If you want real edgy Scooby-Doo stuff, just watch the official Blair Witch parody Cartoon Network aired decades ago. That stuff was both hilarious and actually freaky in how faithful it stays to the movie, complete with an intro saying that the Scooby gang went missing and were never found.

[@thegrandxbunny2073]

Something I've noticed is how the show has a weird obsession with expectations. Like, this one joke with Shaggy RELIES on you thinking that he's a stoner when in LITERALLY NO OFFICIAL CONTINUITY is he ever a stoner.

[@justinehercthehuman]

Thanks to this show, I was reminded to finish Mystery Inc. Now in Season 2 😍

[@jonity11]

Same lol

[@dmg3301]

Same yeah

[@cheneethompson5756]

That show is waaaayy better than this shit fest!

[@TentenchiAMVs]

Thanks to this show, I'm trying Be Cool, Scooby-Doo. It's surprisingly good. Well... If you like that "random humor" that shows like Family Guy and Futurama used so much. I'm guessing that's why the animation looks the way it does, but it's appropriate. Lot's of fun. =)

[@Couriander]

One correction, there have been series where the gang are "definitively teenagers", the original series being one of them. They've always been between the teenager and young adult age group.

[@SuperAmyRose01]

Out of the video reviews for Velma I have seen, you guys have given a nice balance of pros and cons that the show has besides hate reviewing. I don't plan on watching the show because it never piqued my interest, so I'll just stay in my lane. Keep up the good work Round Table 😊

[@christscrackers647]

2:47 I'm probably the only one pointing this out but I did not know Velma was THIS fine. Like goddamn she got it goin' on more than Daphne does. I'm talking about the ORIGINAL Velma. Not Mindy Kaling's fetus experiment that calls herself Velma.

[@cheneethompson5756]

I've always thought Velma was pretty! Not the brown one!

[@speedway1345]

Man it's crazy to hear norville talk about himself on youtube

[@silenthound8116]

We talked about Big Mouth having an impact on these kinds of animated series, but I really think that the way people interpret Rick and Morty's formula for humor is the most widescale issue for these kinds of media. Writers (in tv, video games, ttrpgs and other media) now think that having weird and wacky characters doing weird and wacky things while also being mean spirited, vulgar and expletive with every breath, and deplorable in their actions is somehow funny and enjoyable to watch and replicate. These characters we have seen more and more of all suffer from the same issue of being unlikable for a multitude of reasons, and any moment these characters show of consideration or compassion is immediately met with a derogatory and disparaging joke to "lighten the mood"? This is a problematic trend that needs to be called out more, cause no one sane wants to cheer for an unlikeable character who is written in poor taste. The same could be said for Deadpool. The fans you see with the black half circles with eyes graphic tees immediate signal to all around what kind of edgy humor they enjoy to employee in social interactions. The difference with this character is that yes, he is vulgar and distasteful, but he has genuinely good moments that aren't heavily undercut before they can really develop (like in Ryan Reynold's rendition of the merch with the mouth.) There's nothing wrong with liking a spicy character who uses the fuck word every now and then, but they have to be redeemable in some tangible way, making the right decisions when it counts the most. Otherwise, you and your creation just come off sounding unhinged to the uninitiated viewer. In other words, keep the internet humor, but also keep it human.

[@EdwardSanchezProductions]

I can't believe that they cancelled Scoob holiday haunt for this

[@C3ntip3d3_C4nnib4l]

14:15 why is there so much emotion in this part im crying

[@awesomeocelot7475]

Honestly I don’t think Scooby Doo made it a kids show. I mean just looks at shows like mystery Inc. those series where more adult-aimed yet they also had scooby doo in them. Plus talking dogs are awesome especially when they started letting scooby talk fully and not just utter a few words!

[@Medaumplay3]

Velma's problem is that mindy kaling wanted to write mindy kaling as the hero of a show, and picked the most famous character she could justify. Even though she's racist, misandrist, doesn't know how to write, doesn't like cartoons, and has the worst grasp of comedy I have seen in a long while.

[@darkmask5933]

I'm just impressed they got the guy who actually voices Norville "Shaggy" on the show to do a review here!

[@seelcudoom1]

its actually kind of impressive how they managed to make everyone out of character considering how vague and simple the characterization of mystery inc was

[@bluebirdgrumpycat7971]

Although unrelated, but think about it WBD decided to remove Infinity Train and Final Space for this makes me question things especially since Infinity Train was the biggest animated show and one of the highest rated shows on HBO Max prior to it's removal.

[@mylesjude233]

That does make me think, perhaps they wanted to shelve Infinity Train in order to boost their own properties

[@PeterGriffin11]

@@mylesjude233 But Infinity Train is a WB property they own it.

[@KhaosAdmiral]

From what I recall with Final Space, Olan Rogers made mention that working with Adult Swim was a very painful experience where he had to fight the studio execs

[@adyelfortune8927]

4:44 ok... This was the end of the line ok. I'm just gonna head... Yeah out

[@CivilianSatellite]

It's Always Sunny has proven that you can have an ensemble of horrible irredeemable people that are still likable and fun to watch. It kind of feels like that was something they originally wanted to go for, but were then told to shoehorn the Scooby Doo cast into it.

[@gormleikr]

In the Scooby Soo I watched as a kid, Fred was only there because he had the van. He spent most of his time trying to get his girlfriend alone. I think there were actually forced to get make a Scooby Doo show- everything else was canceled.

[@Sir_Stick]

I, for one, can’t wait to see Scooby-Doo in the new Scooby-Doo show.

[@lisahoshowsky4251]

I think at least 1/4 maybe 1/3 of my issues with this show would have been solved if they’d made them 1st year university students instead of like 14-15 or whatever they’re supposed to be here. They use them like adults, put them in very adult situations, rated this show for adults, so just make them adults. Like this could have worked in a Community (the show) setting really easily. Like the locker room could have been because they were on a varsity team instead of after gym class (do American high schools really have open showers like that?), they could still live at home because they’re attending a local community college, the over sexualization of them and the jokes about them by adults would be less disgusting because they’re not animated as minors, the puberty jokes about Fred would make more sense (most 15 year old boys haven’t finished puberty so it’s not even weird that he hasn’t), like the show wouldn’t be good but it so easily could have been improved if this was set in college/university over a high school and they still could have kept their dumb riverdale references.

[@chidivids2005]

Love to see Norville's VA branching out to KZbin. Good for him😊

[@zer0w0lf94]

Dead End: Paranormal Park is a better Scooby-Doo cartoon than Velma. - Talking dog? Check. ✅ - Likable teen cast including a queer couple and a sapphic girl of color? Check. ✅ - Supernatural shenanigans? Check. ✅ - Engaging mysteries? Check. ✅ - Actually good comedy? Check. ✅ Feel free to add more things Dead End does better if I missed any. Also, the fact its cancellation was publicly announced the day after this show was released has got to be one of the sickest jokes I have ever seen in the history of Western Animation.

[@ShadowLegend300]

freaking Schindler's List would make a better Scooby-Doo cartoon than velma, but you're right lol

[@estebangutierrez160]

Relatable moments? Check ✅ Family drama? Check ✅ Character arguments about what their deal is without having to tell the world about it? Check ✅

[@SH1N0Z]

-Emotional moments? Check ✅ -Likeable characters? Check ✅

[@felixthecat5333]

It’s current shows like this that makes you wonder why people go towards other media like anime for real good entertainment

[@jjadac3529]

You know it is BAD when even the roundtable hates the show

[@storysurgeon5922]

Norville isn't a bad person *tries to blackmail Velma into dating him using information about her mother while stating it'll work BECAUSE it's effective

[@ultrainstinctpetah9381]

Bru the trailer says that Velma tells her own story her way ... she must've fallen down an entire fleet of stairs and hit her head several times

[@willichtenstein7071]

Finally some one who can communicate why Velma doesn't work w/o devolving into a list of buzzwords and worse.

[@GN-ko6qm]

Most can agree that mystery Inc. was by far one of the best Scooby Doo series

[@thesupergamer5894]

Mystery Inc is everything people wanted from this show... it just isn't "made for adults", but it's definitely darker, has adult jokes, a story line, and touches subjects like relationships...

[@jacobmerrill7382]

i care that velma is brown because i know the reasoning why they made her a different race. as a supposed "prequel" to the series before the mystery gang got together, it just doesn't make sense to make her brown. it's not the same as making spiderman or ironman or something like that a different race. those are more like mantles or titles that can be passed down, but velma has always been canonically white. they are only making her not white so that they can turn characters like fred into a "oh wow look how dumb white people are." the entire show is about shitting on white people, and as a white person, i hate that. even more so as a scooby doo fan, i hate that. the show was a comfort of mine growing up, and to see other people try to ruin for the sake of making fun of people who look like me is honestly kind of infuriating. the fact that this channel can't see that but instead "doesnt have a problem with velma being brown" just completely misses the point of what the writers are trying to do.

[@hotduelist]

I'm so glad you're the new voice of "Shaggy/norville"

[@erichfiedler1481]

HE'S NOT THE FUCKING VOICE OF SHAGGY!

[@DarkManX16]

14:59 no that's the EXACT reason people are mad. We've had many iterations for decades but at the core the characters never changed. Maybe in Mystery Incorporated sure but most iterations had them stay the same

[@DarkspineBlaze00]

As I keep shouting. Scooby Apocalypse would have made a better tv show than whatever they’re trying to give us with Velma

[@michaelcheng9987]

I recently watched Overly Sarcastic Productions' video on Lampshade Hanging, and it seems to address a lot of the problems with the humour of the show(going by this video's analysis of it). 2 major things it does to the audience are: 1) Acknowledge the world is fictional, and 2) remind us of the disconnect between said world and audience. And when handled right this can be a brilliant and subversive form of humour, therein lies an easy trap to fall into: using awareness as padding and a shield from audience outcry. Red(the video presenter) warns us as writers that overexcessive lampshading is a sign of insecurity and self-loathing, both to the audience and the creator themself. Countless stories would be ruined by spending too long trying to make sure no one is disappointed by widely-known tropes and clichés, to the point that your most emotional and heavy-hitting moments will no doubt be spun into "meta" jokes and lose their crucial impact. If you try to paint your story as a joke, your readers/viewers can very much pick that up and you lose their investment in your story because you've already told them that they shouldn't care about it. Which is made even worse by the fact that the jokes they're trying to address still happen anyway. Meaning there was no significance to calling them out because they're still inevitable. Combined with the characters being just downright horrible to each other and in general, it all becomes one big joke that can't even take it seriously enough as a joke to be an effective one. It hates Scooby-Doo and hates itself because that's what the show's telling us over and over again; it hates being whatever it is and hates that there's nothing it can do about it.

[@thefangirlingpuellamagi3345]

Nice to find a review that doesn’t get suspiciously stuck on how certain characters are of color

[@BlackTearDrop]

Glad you commented on this, I've been swamped by "critics" videos which are basically just outrage farmers and I wanted to hear criticism in good faith.

[@liamgavinwells]

They wanted a more mature Scooby-Doo show, but forgot Mystery Inc. was a thing

[@BNuts]

My biggest problem with _Velma_ is that all of the characters are jerks and yes, spiteful, leaving me no one to root for. Even Norville is caught in this, when he hangs out with Daphne in an effort to try to learn to be more like her so Minma (I will not call her 'Velma,' she's 98% or so Mindy Kaling) will become more attracted to him. But as soon as he learns he can never become more like Daphne, and thus no longer has any use for her, he simply abandons her, just like Minma abandoned Norville earlier. And the kicker is they were exploring the mines when Norville left her. These are not friends of any kind. These are people who are toxic to other people. They discard and draw whenever they're done using someone, and that's just not right. I absolutely cannot see Mystery Inc being formed from people that act this way. Modern _Star Trek_ shows suffer from the same problem, almost maybe occasionally there's one or two characters who aren't jerks to each other... until later, when they get sucked into the corporate culture of jerk as well. Even _Prodigy_ isn't completely free of this, and it's likely the best offering in a _Trek_ show currently outside of _The Orville_ , which lacks the name but has the spirit. And if a character is a jerk, their far less likeable, and an audience has less desire to see more of them. The jokes in _Velma_ just aren't funny. They're always at someone's expense, and often racist. If you had a white man say these things, for example, Twitter would instantly be shouting for Warner to cancel the series. But since it's Mindy Kaling, Minma can even get away with provoking Fred so an entire courtroom can see him threaten her, and then he's thrown in jail. They follow that up later with Minma being unable to enjoy a white man being in jail under a false charge because she's too preoccupied with her own matters. And instead of saying nobody should be in jail for something they didn't do, ultrasimp Norville just agrees. Which is another thing: no matter what she does or says, Minma is always right. The mayor and police go along with whatever she says, the court actually applauds her statements, she literally can do no wrong. Why? Because she's Mindy Kaling's self-insert. She's a writer/producer on the show, so she can make the show do whatever she wants. That's the secret behind _Velma_ . Except she's so delusional that even after she's attacked one classmate and gotten another one jailed, she does not think about making her mother reappear and solve all her issues. Yes, Fred is incompetent and an idiot, but Velma gets worse because she's written as a narcissistic sociopath, and yet she's never held to account. The sheer amount of stupid she's committed is absurd, and in the face of Velma's characterizations in previous incarnations, that has to be the biggest insult to her character. Mindy said in an interview she identifies with Velma, but I see 0% of the beloved character in Minma. An as Minma is mostly Mindy Kaling, I have _several_ concerns about her and what she is capable of doing. In all honesty, I pirated the first episode to investigate whether the show was bad. I got as far as the roaches. Everything else I know about this series comes from reviews. I could not be more turned off. Besides the characters being jerks, another huge problem is the obsessive sexualization of high school freshmen. We're talking 14-15 year-old here, and it's mostly girls who are being shown naked in the shower or dancing sexually. I have nieces and nephews around this age, and this is absolutely disgusting, I would never want to see my family treated the way these characters are treated. I don't understand this choice, when they could have made the characters college-aged adults, or even new graduates. There are far better choices to make than going the _Cuties_ route. I'm glad I dropped this show, as it continues to be the kind of show it established itself to be in the cold open of the pilot episode. Exactly as I expected at that point. I'm not mad, since I don't consider these to be the gang from Mystery Inc and the _Scooby Doo_ franchise, I'm just very, very disappointed, and very tired of finding yet another program populated exclusively by jerks. Oh, the race swapping? Doesn't matter, they'd still be jerks regardless of what race you made them. I've about given up on Western-made entertainment. See you in the manga and anime, and Asian-made games, then.

[@filmaru8556]

Apparently I just learned they created a black blogger named Scoobi in the series and Norville ends up dating her to get over Velma so yeah they did add Scooby just they turned them human and made them Shaggy’s love interest.

[@cheneethompson5756]

Really?

[@Muna-Jlore0997]

There is no mystery whatsoever. Instead solving mystery, characters just killing each other and dealing drugs out of nowhere. The two episodes is so boring. Like in the end they haven’t found out who’s the murderer. So that whole time, they pinned on just one person without ACTUAL evidence.

[@ROEb0t17]

I can't believe they got Norville's voice actor

[@dominicellis1867]

There already is an adult Scooby doo show. It's called mike Tyson mysteries and features Norm Macdonald as a fucking pigeon.

[@BluffsCastle]

I’m convinced that this show was made specifically to make everyone angry. And it worked. Mystery Incorporated is over one billion times better than this.

[@0XBlondie96X0]

5:25 The thing is that people like Mindy are so entrenched in the mindset of identity politics that they see all the popular hero characters that are cishet white men (and that's probably all they see bc characters like Batman or Iron Man are mainstream enough that even people who aren't fans of that particular genre, which they most likely aren't, are at least somewhat familiar with them) and they automatically assume that these men have literally everything and have never suffered any real hardships in their life bc they're considered to be the top of the social hierarchy. And while society does seem to favor certain social groups over others, some people just don't understand that just bc you're "privileged" doesn't mean you never have issues, just that those issues typically aren't a direct result of your identity. I feel like ignoring that only causes further division and makes it that much harder to achieve what the goal of social justice should be: coming together to create as fair, just and safe a world as humanly possible, for EVERYONE.

[@LitereallyNobody7]

I feel like they never take anything seriously so we arent able and dont care about anything that happens.

[@nevafails6185]

I tried to watch this show but the first episode just didn’t do it for me. I was excited for an adult Scooby-Doo with cussing and adult themes. Imagine Shaggy with a scooby snack problem or scooby going off on someone in his iconic voice assuming they want to take this weird aggressive characters approach. but this show was not how it should have went.

[@bashkillszombies]

Wait, is Velma brown washed? Did they Netflix her for real? Wtf man, they need to just stop.

[@CalvinKalisto]

Not defending this show, but Velma hasn't always been white, in some incarnations, she was once eastern European, another time she was Hispanic and even being a lesbian was sometimes considered. The show is just bad in general.

[@MZZE-my7hz]

If this was a show in itself without being based on scooby doo People would still rag on it for the garbage jokes and piss poor writing but by trying to connect it to the scooby doo IP its made it even worse lol

[@justinriley]

The biggest problem is that it’s trying way too hard to be clever and funny.

[@BluffsCastle]

It’s like the writers went to the Joss Whedon School of Unfunny Snark and Fourth-Wall Breaking

[@IGuessItsSketchyT]

And politically correct...

[@justinriley]

@@BluffsCastle It's trying and failing at being Buffy

[@5ashll303]

Yeah the show thinks it’s smarter than it is

[@prideguy3233]

@@IGuessItsSketchyT Nothing about this show is political correct.

[@ElijahW2003]

5:35 Heck even in the cases of Bruce and Tony that's not entirely accurate, sure they got cool gadgets but they only became heroes after great loss at a tender age and a _serious_ amount of humbling respectively, so their stories weren't just about gaining, but rather finding something within themselves after having something completely stripped away from them, whether it be childhood or ego/pride.