The Resurgence of Fundamentalism // TheoLIVE Episode 32

John MacArthur, John Piper, and Owen Strachan. What do they all have in common? Perhaps, fundamentalism. Yeah, I said it. Today we'll be talking about a new type of fundamentalism that is pervasive in Christian circles.
#JohnPiper #Fundamentalism #Theology
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[@wendywest5463]

Dean I don't want to tell my story in this venue but I cannot think you enough for your holding fast to biblical truth. I literally nearly lost my life in a serious suicide attempt after being in a church like you have described. This and other twisted doctrines are literally killing undiscerning sheep. There's an African proverb: "The sheep spend their lives watching out for the wolves only to be eaten by the shepherd." I wish more people would listen to your voice and frankly to mine. Thank you brother.

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks for the encouragement and more importantly I’m so glad you’re here!!!

[@DavidJacks1967]

At the National ETS meeting in late 2022 ...Piper (after he made is public presentation of his book on Faith) Drs. Guy Waters (exegetical) and JV Fesko (theological/historical) gave a critique of Piper ... you resonate very well with what they said and the concerns they have concerning Piper and "saving faith" - especially if one (or Piper himself) thinks Piper is "reformed" in his theology (especially concerning "saving faith"). Piper sure sounds like a Catholic and seems to be in-line with Trent ... here from: The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent: Sixth Session (Jan 13, 1547) Decree of Justification: Chapter 7 - ": whence, man, through Jesus Christ in whom he is grafted, receives, in the said justification, together with the remission of sins, all these [gifts] infused at once, faith hope and charity [i.e. love]. For faith unless hope and love be added thereto, neither unites man perfectly with Christ, nor makes him a living member of his body." It seems that since the Reformation - the Catholics have not become more Protestant in their theology, but Protestants have become more Catholic in their theology. May God give us ears to hear and minds to discern Christ properly in accordance with Bible.

[@user-yv2bd7qm4p]

George Marsden's book Fundamentalism and American Culture is an excellent resource on this subject.

[@enriquemata8558]

The believer will always be growing in understanding God's love. We will never reach the end of it. At least that is my finite understanding of the matter.

[@Underdogtheology]

I totally agree

[@vaughntuckerart3940]

The gospel is simple, we come to treasure Christ more and more, for many it is a slow reveal. He uses Paul for an example, how did Paul got saved, Jesus saved him by his grace revealing himself to him. Paul did not treasure Christ one bit and that is the wonder of the gospel. Funny how Calvinism that major on grace can come out so legalistic.

[@Underdogtheology]

Completely agree Vaughn!

[@DavidJacks1967]

Appreciated your comments - especially on Piper - great work! Regarding Double Predestination: Your saying Double Presdestination is "heretical and unbiblical" is an uncharitable and unfortunately wrong way to categorize such belief. There is a "diversity" within the historic Reformed Tradition (much more than most Calvinists today tend to admit and understand). Those historic professors who held to Double Presdestination did so based on the Scriptures themselves (not merely logic or a philosophical system)! If you would like to see a balanced view and be stretched on your historical knowledge and a way to be a more little gracious to others within the "Reformed" community please see: J.V. Fesko "Diversity Within the Reformed Tradition: Supra- and Infralapsarianism in Calvin, Dort, and Westminster". Keep up the good work and have a great day!

[@user-yv2bd7qm4p]

I love listening to Martin Lloyd Jones, even though I lean Arminian! Amazing sermons and erudition. Thanks so much for sharing the T. T. Shields and Martin Lloyd Jones exchange, Dean. What an amazing coverage of the subject. On Piper...why is a "treasure hunter" better than a bunker dweller? 🤔 Great segment, very timely!👍 (Like you, I have also had questions about Grudem's theology and social ethics, as well.)

[@Underdogtheology]

😎 thanks!

[@maricelafigueroa857]

Good work brothers

[@user-yv2bd7qm4p]

Tone is a big part of it. J. Gresham Machen, though fundamentalist in many ways, has a very different tone from a Billy Sunday or William Bell Riley. Marsden defines a fundamentalist as an Evangelical who is angry about something. An interesting historical case of how Fundamentalism leads to splintering and splitting over nuanced theology (eschatology) is that of Plymouth Brethren churches in the 19th and 20th centuries. 🤔

[@Underdogtheology]

Tone I believe is the forefront of this.

[@JonAdamsMinistries]

Say what you want about that piper video, the texture matching in the clothing and background and color matching of that whole video was on point bruhhh.

[@Underdogtheology]

😂 True, now if only his soteriology in the vid was on point!

[@JonAdamsMinistries]

@@Underdogtheology lol

[@brandonredin]

Ok Dean, this question is completely off topic. Do you have a specific way you organize your books? Just curious.

[@Underdogtheology]

I usually do it in categories. For what you see on camera here, just what looks good. 😎

[@butterpecan6143]

Very interesting content I am enjoying your channel!

[@Underdogtheology]

Oh great! I’m glad you found my channel!

[@donnaoscolaighlange]

Not fuzzy

[@pappywinky4749]

I keep hearing about the hate towards Tim keller, but I still don't know what it's about. Same with Piper, I know he's a bit extreme in some of his views but I don't know about this scandal going on. But this idea he's talking about is really terrifying, especially for people, who like me, suffer with doubts. If we need to love him in order to be safe, how much? how? can we fall out of love for him in suffering? if I doubt, does it mean I'm not save, or don't love him enough? I was gonna buy that book to help my doubts and now I'm glad I saw this video. I'm gonna wait for your thoughts.

[@Underdogtheology]

John Piper’s successor and many others ran were hurt due to the culture of Bethlehem (Piper’s church). And I have no clue why people hate in Keller, just seems like anything the guys says gets twisted to mean something else by some folks. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@pappywinky4749]

@@Underdogtheology I guess most megachurches end up with these scandals on their hands. With such big teams and influential pastors it's probably inevitable that leadership ends up being tyrannical or tribal. Now this definitely happens in small churches too, but its seems to plague big ones. Might just be an impression on my end though.

[@Underdogtheology]

@@pappywinky4749 I think I’d have to agree at this point. It just keeps happening.

[@vaughntuckerart3940]

We could call it Lordship sister,

[@ddcarnley]

What are your thoughts of Voddie Baucham who uses the husband as “priest of the home” kind of language in many of his books and sermons?

[@Underdogtheology]

Appreciate the question Justin, I whole heartedly disagree with that position. If you watch my women in the church episode of TheoLIVE I go into detail. Thanks!

[@logangeorge1280]

Enjoyed the session. Listened on my way home from Houston and would enjoy hearing more. Randomly, I want to know about your hat. Looks sharp. Wasn’t sure if the design had a meaning or if it is a brand. Educate me if you will.

[@Underdogtheology]

It’s a cool hat I found from a camping company called Pistil. Don’t know anything about em but thought it looked rad.

[@josephbenzjr.2849]

Hi brother. Thanks for the content it's really blessed me. As someone who has been blessed by John Piper in the past and considers him to be a solid teacher I'm not really understanding the concern, perhaps it's a bit of a bias or because I'm still growing and trying to reconcile hard truths that often get complicated... could you clarify for me? Just trying to understand.

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks Joseph. My concern is on adding another barrier to belief in the Gospel. I’m afraid he is saying that you must believe the Gospel AND love Jesus more than anything and only then are you actually saved.

[@pappywinky4749]

I would be interested in knowing more about why you didn't sign the document on CRT, would you be willing to do a video on it? Or already did? I know it might be an inflammatory subject, but your comment kind of made me curious about the whole thing.

[@Underdogtheology]

I hear General Ackbar in my head, “it’s a trap!” 😜 But seriously, I probably won’t, but there’s a lot about it out there on the interweb if you want to research it.

[@pappywinky4749]

@@Underdogtheology 🤣 Now I have the same voice in my head. After my own research on it I can't get behind CRT, the thought process that goes into it is just really wrong. But if I base myself on a lot of his previous statements on similar suject, I imagine he says that any church using it is an apostate or something like that?

[@scottgordon1303]

Dean, You can criticize whoever you want but just out of curiosity, I think I heard James White, Tom Ascol and some others wrote the Social Justice statement along with MacArthur. Why not include them in this criticism?

[@Underdogtheology]

Mostly time I guess.

[@enriquemata8558]

The problem is that this kind of teaching leads to staring at your own bellybutton, wondering if you have done enough. But the real problem is that you can never know for sure.

[@Underdogtheology]

Yep! 💯

[@scottgordon1303]

Dean, We agree that Grudem is wrong on Eternal Subordination of Christ. Do you think it fundamentalist to divide on this issue? As a Sandemanian Baptist, I also agree with you on the Lordship/Piper view of faith being in error. I appreciate you informing me of the review of Piper’s book at the Gospel Coalition site. Unfortunately the author of that review lied about Sandeman’s views on imputed righteousness but I doubt he has ever read anything by Sandeman and is just passing on old lies. Sadly, Martin Lloyd Jones held to Lordship salvation as well by the way.

[@Underdogtheology]

I’m not familiar with Sandeman, but to answer your question yes I would separate over Eternal Subordination if they understood an orthodox position and actively chose that position. I’ve found a lot of these guys just are unaware that eternal subordination is problematic.

[@scottgordon1303]

@@Underdogtheology Thanks Dean, for more info on Sandeman MLJ was very critical of him in his book “The Puritans”. Sandeman wrote the book “Letters on Theron and Aspasio. For Sandemanian Baptists see the “Works of Archibald M’Lean”.