The Rise of the Nones & The Decline of Religion With Ryan Burge

In Part 3 of the Church Trends Series, Political Scientist and Author Ryan Burge talks about the rise of the nones-people professing no religion-, the threat to democracy that the decline of religion is causing in America, and why the Nones are very reachable for most churches.
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Chapters
0:00:00 - Education Level and Church Attendance
0:01:19 - Welcome to the Podcast
0:09:29 - What to Give Away for Free
0:10:45 - What Makes Data Reliable?
0:16:52 - What are the Nones?
0:19:09 - The group of non-religious people is growing
0:21:40 - The correlation between income, education, and religion in the United States
0:32:05 - What American Society Has Lost
0:37:55 - The Rise of the Nones
0:43:40 - Political divisions and the church
0:51:20 - Demographics of the Religious Nones
1:01:37 - Stats on Community and the Younger Generations
1:09:00 - Data on People Being Invited to Church

[@Gfish17]

As a Child who was dragged to church on Sunday I would not go to church even if I had Time and money.

[@Gfish17]

My pastor at Jasper county Iowa Christian Life Center used the money from Tithes to build a mansion. So make of that what you want.

[@brentmiller3951]

The problem with religion is being told you are broken and you have to beg forgiveness from the guy that allowed the problem

[@aprboone1]

I would offer too, that in the 1990s the uncovering of the Catholic Priest scandal which began to impact public institutions and personal commitments commi

[@vialarmsecurityandfire8145]

Man, I really enjoy listening and reading Ryan's work. His numbers are stunning. Thanks Carey.

[@CareyNieuwhof]

Couldn't agree more!

[@brentmiller3951]

Education is what made me atheist

[@lorasmothers8491]

I would appreciate complicating this conversation through the lens of culture. The lament for the good ole days falls a little flat to me as a Black listener. I feel that our ways of being community and caring for each other have largely persisted despite the Great Dechurching. Our local church is still a place where people get their bills paid for by their church family before they leave. Honestly, that sense of community and care is what has carried me through these last few years since the pandemic.

[@mtcstyle]

Thank you for posting. Now that you've said it, I can totally see how this conversation is focused on one cultural experience. What advice would you give for framing this topic? I'm a de-churched white evangelical. I stopped going due to some church hurt and differences in theology. Now being on the outside looking in, I feel like Black church culture simply does community better than white churches.

[@T-41]

Very interesting program, thanks. Much of white organized religion in the US still seems to be the main driver of bigotry and government control of others- anti immigrant, anti LGBTQ., anti reproductive rights, anti- diversity, anti gender equality, etc. It would be interesting to see data concerning the impact of this on the decline of Christian church involvement.

[@SpatchG]

Is it though? Fo you have empirical evidence to support that claim?

[@Gfish17]

​@@SpatchGYes States like Florida are restricting Trans and women's rights.

[@chriscosby2459]

This would be me. I was a weak Christian that finally had enough of the nonsense in the bible.

[@brentmiller3951]

It is great to decide people more by class

[@FierBarca1899]

Ryan Burge's work is fantastic. So is Brad Wilcox's who links back to Burge's. On the other hand, I have observed that children of church attending immigrants who have earned a 4-year degree are no longer part of the faith.

[@SailingSeignior]

I would love to see the research that backs up his claims that higher education/income correlates with high church attendance. Practically all recent research I’ve seen is the opposite. But marriage does seem to be correlated with high church attendance from what I’ve seen. I have seen some limited research on individual churches and denominations that have found that within churches themselves the higher income members (usually college educated parents) tend to go to church more than other members but I have never seen research indicating as a whole Americans with college degrees go to church more than non college educated Americans. Overall, the numbers seem flipped. College education tends to make people less religious. How one actually defines less religious is a whole conversation in and of itself but less people identify as religious if they have a college education compared to if they don’t. It’s also important to note that just because a certain group of people attend a service that doesn’t therefore make that group of people the perfect ideal member. There could be plenty of explanations as to why college educated, higher income people go to church more. They probably have better jobs with better benefits. More time off means more time to go to things like church if you so desire. Research also indicates that college educated people are healthier. An easy explanation for that could be the same thing. They have more benefits and more time off from work and are able to work out at a gym and buy healthy food/cook healthy meals/clean up after the meals multiple times a week as opposed to a single mom working multiple jobs barely paying her bills. Churches may also gear their church activities, classes, sermons, and culture towards middle class people so it’s essentially just a self-fulfilling prophecy. If your church essentially advertises itself to middle class people of course your members and definitely your more devoted members are going to be middle class people with college educations. That’s who many churches pitch to because they may have a greater propensity to give money to the church. They may never admit that but seems pretty clear to me in many cases especially with trendy, non denominational churches that seem to go after the young professional crowd.

[@Revbone450]

What would you say to someone that grew up in a cult like Mormonism or JWs and wants nothing to do with organized religion?

[@Gfish17]

The Internet is the great equalizer. We all deserve a voice and megaphone.

[@brentmiller3951]

The church makes a us and them the church is way different in my mind than any other business

[@jnhofzinser]

please provide a link/citation for the study Ryan mentions @30:48? thanks!

[@jnhofzinser]

Was he referring to the Chetty et al. Social Capital I & II?

[@RyanBurgePhD]

@@jnhofzinser It is, yeah.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

I really, really tried so hard to believe the Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark stories were true but it was useless. My brain wouldn't let me.

[@quotechew]

What are your emails about? [10:32]

[@brentmiller3951]

That is such bull the more educated you are the more likely to be atheist. That is what the numbers Show

[@jonnewman21]

Colossians 3 New International Version Living as Those Made Alive in Christ 3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. 12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. 15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. Instructions for Christian Households 18 Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them. 20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. 21 Fathers,[c] do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged. 22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.