The Riverlands - livestream Q&A

[@auddymay]

Tansy is what Hoster was murmuring along with Liza, because he forced his daughter to drink Tansy tea (moon tea). Guilt. It is also the main reason Black Fish left with Liza, and why Liza was the way she was.

[@Howtragicforyou]

I didn't figure that out until like my third read but yeah you are 100% correct the man is quite clearly filled with guilt at the horror of his actions in most likely doing severe psychological and physical trauma to his daughter. I believe there's also a bed of blood reference in relation to this incident as well which leads me to believe it was most likely a rather complicated abortion as far as westorasi abortions go

[@savanahwulff6263]

Loving this series, I'm excited to get to Dorne!

[@roddammit5510]

Sound, background pics, haircut, breaking news bout my boys Dunk and Egg anndd some riverlands deep dives?? Top notch mate. Gimme all that good news.

[@isabeltorlan337]

One of the best livestreams yet 💖 Profoundly interesting insight 💖

[@liverdave1977]

As always a great deep dive! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@lewdogsk8er]

“Tansy” is obviously the name of his sled from when he was a little boy.

[@ThommyofThenn]

Rather sad that only eleven people got that reference

[@MJAce85]

​@@ThommyofThenn#12 here, but was about to comment the same.

[@emma_green]

Love this new series looking at what’s going on in the different regions 🙏

[@cabarden1]

Two or three years removed and I still re watch the show and i wish they never rushed the last season and could of had the spin offs but the show was epic. Better than any show ever created.

[@andreajohnson2828]

Tansy is a reference to the tea he gave Lisa. Catelyn thinks it refers to a person because she doesn't know her sister was pregnant with LF's baby

[@SamanthaBoooooooo]

Good point! How could she not know her sister went through all of that? Then everyone else in the kingdom knows? Confusing

[@cbjames2844]

Hoster gave Lysa the tansy flower to abort her pregnancy with little finger... That's why Lysa's marriage prospect went from Jamie Lannister to old man Jon Arryn, because she wasn't a virgin. And Jon needed an heir (i.e. fertal bride). I thought that was pretty straightforward.

[@Coffeewiththegods]

Came here to say the same thing

[@Levacque]

I'm quite surprised, this is one of the only times that I'vwe seen Robert completely miss clues like this. I suppose we'll see once he catches up on his re-read, maybe he'll catch how (understandably) obsessed Catlyn is when it comes to infidelity and how that skewed her perception of her father's final word. You see what you expect to see, after all.

[@carlrood4457]

At the time of the invasion, there was: Stormlands Westerlands Dorne The Reach The Vale Isles & Rivers The North Those were the seven. Obviously, they then carved out The Crownlands and split the Iron Islands and Riverlands.

[@MykeFahrenheit]

Where was the seat of power of the Isle & Rivers? Harrenhal? Pyke? Somewhere else?

[@carlrood4457]

@@MykeFahrenheit At the time of Aegon's invasion, it was Harrenhal. However it took 40 years to build, I don't know when Harren the Black took up residence. Not sure where previous kings lived

[@Slechy_Lesh]

He took up residence a day before his death iirc

[@Howtragicforyou]

It's going to be very interesting to see the black fishes reaction to what Catlin has become

[@maltormash1048]

I was also wondering if Arya's experiences with the kindly man with the maggot filled skull will act as a sort of preparation for reuniting with her mother.

[@yidsinwhite441]

@@maltormash1048 surely not. That’s her mother man. The face she probably still dreams of when she reminisces has become a horrible ruin. Nothing can surely prepare her for the horrors of her new mothers look.

[@boriso6226]

Great work as always 🙂

[@jrwilliams4029]

I deduce a safe benchmark for new GOT books release: add 8-10 years per spin-off; which hypothetically translates to a 15-20yr moratorium before the next novel following WOW. Attach a gargantuan “if” to to the hopeful eventuality that WOW vol 1& 2 are released in the near future. IDG, I was under the stern impression that GRRM is not a materialist. Doesn’t it then follow the completion of his magnum opus should take precedence over an HBO spinoff serie(s)? Your thoughts?

[@fernandosimon5621]

It's hard for GRRM to find motivation now that he has all that HBO money coming his way. He has lost his hunger, his drive. He sold the soul of his best creation to TV executives. The downfall of The Song was the show. We will [eventually] get Winds, but we will NEVER get Dream. Start accepting that reality now and save yourself the hurt.

[@milesrowe2263]

@@fernandosimon5621 i think your to Optimistic we wont get winds

[@joslinnick]

Riverrun looks like it needs a good pressurewashing.

[@EPYHDA1]

Geographically Riverlands should benefit from intersection of all trade routes, or, as is more comfortable for me to understand, mathematically, from the best connectivity in Westeros.

[@patrickbateman783]

Yes, all so Wars. It's a got place to raid for supplies and it's position right in the middle of Westeros where Armies have to pass.

[@reneebarger5194]

Sad to hear that GRRM is going to release control of Dunk & Egg to HBO. Has he given up on finishing ASOIAF? Has he given up on finishing the 12 novellas of Dunk & Egg after the completion of ASOIAF? Looks like he is selling out for fame & fortune to finish out his last years.

[@AndrewK23777]

Renee , at this point it is all still tentative , HBO could just want to hear multiple pitches in the universe for consideration , "Bloodmoon" the Long Night based series went as far as a pilot and still did not get made. Given Robert's Rebellion is another pitch being heard seems to me HBO could simply be demanding more pitches to consider because GRRM has been fairly vocal in his opposition to a Robert's Rebellion series, so that is quite unlikely as well. Not sure what is going on being I am not GRRM or work for HBO but very early on in the process and I hope they do not give D&E much serious consideration until we get the whole novella series or at least many more installments. GRRM has said 12 novellas or so would likely be what it takes to finish up D&E , so 9 more than we currently have. Even though they are shorter , lighter and less complex that does seem an ambitious goal given GRRM's current speed of writing and numerous other writing projects on his schedule. Lets see what happens , I love D&E but I think it is crazy to proceed beyond the consideration phase without way more D&E source material.

[@reneebarger5194]

Thank you Andrew for your thoughtful reply. George & I are of a certain age & I am of failing health. I would really love to read at least the WOW, another little Dunk adventure perhaps. Not everything has to be a TV show or movie. But when recognition & wealth are offered to you in your twilight years, it is awfully easy to grab it while you can. Bringing an epic universe to life is daunting, maintaining it can be insurmountable. Let’s hope that HBO isn’t the vampire that sucks poor old George dry of creative blood.

[@AndrewK23777]

@Renee Barger, all the best with your and GRRM's health. Never know for sure but I suspect TWoW is close to completion , despite some who are in the "its never coming out" camp , I have a good feeling. The months and months of consistent updates on his blog indicating he is working on TWoW and a decade or so of previous work on it with numerous sample chapters completed & released are all good signs for me. And not a positive for any of us but the pandemic seems to have him isolated and more focused on writing. I expect TWoW will come out in the next year or so. The next D&E (D&E 4) "The She-Wolves of Winterfell", I also expect is done / nearly done and will come out rather soon after TWoW given it was slated to be completed and included in an anthology series 7 or 8 years ago. Both good indicators for those two works for me. Of course i would love more TV and movie adaptations from GRRM's ASoIaF universe works but I am much more interested in reading as many of the books as the priority. If the ASoIaF book series is left open-ended by him not finishing ADoS , I would be rather devastated. But his prerogative what he sanctions and how thin he spreads himself (tends to be quite thin via juggling numerous projects). Though with D&E in particular , i would have my concerns with an adaptation any time soon given there is currently such limited source material. For me it should be held back and revisited until we get many more D&E novellas. Ntm, i do worry trying to keep up and provide source material for a TV series , as happened with GoT seemed to have contributed to GRRM's recent writing struggles. A Dunk & Egg adaptation could give rise to a very similar situation , which could affect not only the D&E novellas but all the other writing projects set in the ASoIaF universe that many of us are eagerly anticipating.

[@dustin628]

So HBO will finish yet another series for George? Thats so depressing.

[@Runningdeering]

I had the same thought. I love the Dunk & Egg series and knowing there are still 9 or so more parts to it we haven’t seen yet worries me. We know what happens when HBO goes off book.

[@fernandosimon5621]

I know right? How does anyone think that's a good idea??

[@Runningdeering]

@@fernandosimon5621 probably the same people who just cast Corlys Velaryon as someone who doesn’t look anything like a Valyrian.

[@dustin628]

@@Runningdeering oh no your kidding, I haven't even looked yet. What a bummer, the Velaryons are such an interesting and mysterious house but the one major thing we DO know about them is they look like Valyrians! Ugh what a bummer. So the spin off is already off to a great start 🙄

[@Runningdeering]

@@dustin628 yeah, it kills me cause I don’t mind them changing up other characters to add representation. But this one seems like a big oversight, I can think of tons of characters they could have changed that wouldn’t have been a huge impact to the storyline. But this now tells us what Laenor and his sister will look non Valyrian, and the children that may or may not be theirs will probably look Wayyyyy different to beat it over our heads that they aren’t Laenor’s. And it also will tell us what Adam of Hull will probably look like too. Just all around disappointing. Kills all subtlety in those characters.

[@brennangum6236]

The iron islands the riverlands were one kingdom. Thats why it was 7 kingdoms

[@DrankenDune]

Aww I must’ve missed the notification for the live stream :(

[@EPYHDA1]

I wonder, if Rhaegar and Lyanna were not married, with Jon being born in Dorne, does it make him a Waters as a Targaryan bastard, a Snow, as his mothe was from the North, or a Sand, being born in Dorne?

[@f.g.h604]

It should be Aegon Sand if he was publically acknowledged by his father right? I think the bastard nicknames are just given out depending on location, at least thats how it works in CK2 AGOT.;)

[@KB_Espy2009]

Robert did discuss that Jon was a Snow because he was raised in the North. If as a baby Jon had remained in Dorne, then he would have been a Sand.

[@EPYHDA1]

I think, with whaKarstarks were doing in the region (judging by the testimony from Lady Smallwood), there was no way Robb could have won in the Riverlands long term.

[@Nexus-6]

I sadly think there will be no more Dunk & Egg novels. GRRM may, or may not, ever finish TWoW nevermind ADoS. He seems to be struggling to write and/or procrastinating. It's depressing that most likely ASoIaF will never get an ending. ☹️

[@MJAce85]

Yep I feel like there's a strange amount of optimism around GRRMs ability to finish a book, especially with these ASoIaF podcasters, which as far as they go I think isnt genuine. But, he's been 10+ years into Winds, and I can't believe anyone could have anything but skepticism until he at least turns that one out. So, the D&E series apparently has been green lit, this is 2 years after this podcast, and George STILL hasn't put Winds out, so are we gonna have another show with no ending out there? HBO would be wise to not start anything until they have a better understanding of how it's gonna end. And by that I mean, I know there IS an ending of some sort for D&E, we do know the ending, we don't know any particulars though, and it could suck pretty badly if writers are allowed to think for themselves in order to fill in the blanks. Sorry to be so skeptical, but we will never get ADoS, probably won't get D&E's proper ending, MAYBE we'll get another Fire and Blood, and im 60/40 against getting Winds. George is like my kid when he plays ANY GAME with a customizable character. He spends so much time building the character and the world around it that the total in-game completion percentage is at like 40. Character building and world building is fun, but don't forget the story.

[@Franz_Morhart]

I thought Fire & Blood Part II was supposed to be the next BIG book to come out. after "The She-Wolves Of Winterfell?" You mentioned here that you thought Part II was coming after "A Dream Of Spring" and said that consequently, we MAY never get Part II... I think you're wrong: "A Dream Of Spring" comes last in the publishing order, and it is "A Dream Of Spring" we probably won't get, regardless of publishing order. (Although I hope I'm wrong about that.)

[@AndrewK23777]

franz , I could be wrong but i thought the schedule was TWoW , D&E 4 which would be "The She-Wolves of Winterfell" being it was supposed to be completed 7 or 8 years ago that has to be just about fully done and ready to publish , ADoS , D&E 5 then F&B part II and then continue the D&E novellas. Everything is subject to change , and maybe i am wrong but I thought that was the schedule. I firmly believe TWoW is close to completion , as is She-Wolves , hopefully with the narrative contraction and bottle-neck TWoW has to start with ASoIaF would make ADoS an easier more straightforward novel for GRRM to write and hopefully he can get that done more quickly than what has become his typical speed of writing production of late. Though now with a D&E TV series possibly on the cards those novellas might get more priority and we may start getting more of those before ADoS. With F&B part 2 , I have a feeling that may be pushed back because the subject matter in the time period though definitely interesting I am not sure there would be plans to adapt that much in that book which could become how GRRM decides his writing schedule to an extent ; with various TV series possibly underway in the near future that could affect his plans and what he gives priority. But we saw with GoT that did not push him that much with writing. Looking at F&B part II , finishing up Aegon III's reign , his sons Daeron I & Baelor I , to the very short reign of Aegon III's brother Viserys II, not sure I ever see that content being adapted , surely not anytime soon. Possibly way down the line the Aegon IV reign, the Great Bastards era and Daeron II / Blackfyre Rebellons might be adapted some years down the road but then just after that we are approaching D&E territory. So for me F&B part II will likely not get much priority imo. The D&E novellas will fill in a lot of info with the kings / their reigns during the time that covers. Though in the end who knows , GRRM seems to have gotten incredibly slow with his writing and of course schedules are subject to change. I hope we get everything he has planned but I have my doubts. TWoW , D&E 4 seem quite certain we get sooner rather than later beyond that it is all speculative at best - factoring in his age , health , current speed of writing , distractions etc.

[@Runningdeering]

Would have loved to make this livestream. Always wanted to ask if you thought Ser Kyle Condon and the group of Northernmen he was left with before the Red Wedding will come back into relevance. He was one of the few knights of the North, and I know his the House he serves is gone (RIP Cerwyn), but I feel like he would still have a reason to fight for the Starks seeing as Cerwyn was loyal and very close with them.

[@liberTvalance]

Awesomeness as usual. Wish I'd of been there live. If blackfish lives is there any chance he goes north to help Jon? If he knows the content of Robbs will then..

[@ThommyofThenn]

5:58 if you would like to skip directly to Riverlands discussion

[@SHARKVADERS]

IDG!!!

[@ThommyofThenn]

Correct.

[@ZakMason10]

There’s More canals in Birmingham than there is in Venice

[@fernandosimon5621]

Any new show or spin off is NOT good news. Just means that GRRM will NEVER finish Winds let alone Dream...

[@dbcoco]

missed the livestream! lots of love

[@jacobstringer1846]

What happens to the arkenstone post the hobbit?

[@rapflapfl]

It was laid in Thorins Grave and probably stayed there

[@spidalack]

The winds of winters will not arrive ... fast enough for my taste.

[@alexrockas3704]

The river lands is Switzerland

[@mikeykrizzles7830]

Pretty sure if I was a SMALL folk wich I'm sure not and I got to the throne room and visenya was takin the work from the throne id wait for aegon to returb

[@realdaggerman105]

Do you have the time to care? You came to seek audience with the king, you have an issue that NEEDS resolving.

[@game_jinx]

These disney+ style tv series seem to be fluffy with less than ideal portrayals of characters and stories. Please dont do that do dunk and egg

[@EPYHDA1]

For some reason I thought that "tansy" was in reference to his guilt over having Lysa's pregnancy terminated. She never forgave him and did not even communicate with him by letters on his death bed.I did look it up, and it says on RxList: "It's UNSAFE to use tansy if you are pregnant. It could start your period, cause your uterus to contract and cause an abortion"

[@roushpedish]

That’s what I thought too. Maybe there’s more to it though...? It’s supposed to be a common name in the riverlands... it’s kinda messed up though. It’s like naming your daughter “Plan B”.

[@williamwhitten554]

That thumbnail tho

[@KrisCasey4]

William Whitten ...and one more thing!

[@anonymous-hz2un]

2:15:01 WTF 😂😂😂

[@LSK1]

[@hansolowe19]

I much prefer regular videos over longass livestreams.

[@robertmilton3293]

Stop doing live streams and go back to videos.

[@ThommyofThenn]

Both can be good