The Road to the SnyderCut: What The Hell Happened?

[@Owesomasaurus]

The core of Batman is a hurt child who won't let anyone else go through what he did. The core of Superman is a man who uses his strength to uplift and protect others, not because he gains from it, but because its the right thing to do.

[@NovemberXXVII]

Batman is a vulnerable child on an arc towards becoming this invulnerable demigod. Superman is an invulnerable demigod on an arc towards innocence and humility. They're...kinda on the same story 'road', but going opposite directions.

[@vysharra]

@@NovemberXXVII no. Superman is the god of humanity, emulating the very best aspects of humanity while trying to fix the worst aspects. He isn’t supposed to be incomplete, he’s supposed to grow in knowledge of himself because he’s already perfect, it’s up to the rest of the world to wake up. Superman/Clark Kent is a myth, not a man (though you can explore the narrative inherent in that since he was raised to be a man, but only after you establish his goodness and godliness first).

[@NovemberXXVII]

@@vysharra Slightly tangential question: If a flying, superstrong demigod with laser eyes showed up in real life and started doing Superman shit...would you make the same conclusion about them? I ask because I'm not sure where you're getting this analysis of Superman. Do you just see a person more powerful than you and go "Well shit guess I gotta respect them as my superior and new god"?

[@vysharra]

@@NovemberXXVII this world couldn’t birth a ‘real’ Superman, he’s too idyllic, so why would it matter how our world would respond to one?

[@cui8789]

Batman is a hurt child who doesn't want anyone else to go through what he did. He is also a paranoid, abusive control freak who has hurt other people. Superman does the right thing because it is the right thing (and I don't know why people act like Snyder's Superman had any other motivation) but that doesn't mean it is easy for him or that it can't take a toll on him or feel frustrated and lonely at times.

[@YozoraHeart]

That Kill Bill Vol 2 monologue is a PLAGUE on Superman discourse and I'll never forgive Tarantino for it.

[@Princess_Weekes]

Literally a blight

[@Thistlespawn]

In Tarantino's defence, he doesn't necessarily believe this himself. After all, it's Bill, the main villain, who says this tripe. And the way Bill twists the idea of Superman in his mind tells more about him than about the actual character of Superman... But I've seen people agree with this monologue unironically, ugh.

[@sallybanner]

it's so dumb, most importantly superman's name isn't superman

[@DIAC1987]

So wild how we have a perfectly good Superman cartoon in the 1990s from the same talented crew that helmed Batman: The Animated Series, yet Hollywood today completely ignores it and doesn't learn from what made that Superman the definitive one most of us grew up with and idolized and hold to the highest standards.

[@Thistlespawn]

@@DIAC1987 I'm gonna go further and say it: cartoon DC is just overall better than movie DC. And occasionally better than comics DC *cough*Tom King*cough*. Idk why they keep making these weird zomg edgy!!1 interpretations of the characters when it's just plainly not what the fans want.

[@misslethal2355]

Now THIS is the big tiddy nerd analysis that we all deserve, algorithm.

[@jacobchaudoin9680]

Into the Tiddyverse-- DCEU Edition

[@hashtagloiter]

Yes lord

[@kibbo86]

Fer da algo

[@yolddelius6292]

ashe

[@onesfuture]

This. All this. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@christopherb501]

44:10 Same here; I am SO tired of the mainstream acting like feminism never can be more nuanced than 90s "girl power" tropes.

[@annabela.1673]

It's kinda funny to see productions from many countries presenting good and organic female characters way better than Hollywood and with zero intention to be praised or maketed as feminist. It shows when women are written as human beings and not empty tropes as easy money from young people.

[@christopherb501]

@@annabela.1673 Citations/recommendations?

[@katara2021]

@@christopherb501 Stranger, My Mister, The life of Ming Lan, Flower of Evil, Lawless Lawyer, Kingdom, Mr. Sunshine, Unnatural, all have great female characters.

[@christopherb501]

@@katara2021 Can I have some other detail for those one-word titles? They're all generic enough they'll likely be confused when I look them up. All the same, thanks.

[@katara2021]

@@christopherb501 They won't be, don't worry.

[@Thistlespawn]

Ew, that Aquaman - Diana interaction in Whedon's version made me realise Whedon just reused his gross joke from the failed Wonder Woman script. That man is reeeeally attached to this joke, huh. I think we're lucky his Justice League doesn't feature a scene where Diana pole dances to "make men pay attention to her". I also wonder but fear to know WHAT kind of ideas Whedon was originally having for Cyborg. I don't even like Snyder's work, but seeing side by side comparisons between the two versions made me really appreciate the man for not being a creep.

[@fernanda5487]

Sorry, could I ask what was the joke? ö i have no idea about that or the pole scene

[@gateauxq4604]

The Cyborg plot is SO GOOD. If you can find a supercut with them I highly encourage everyone to watch video. Whedon absolutely trashed the character and tried to ruin a man’s life. The Whedon cut is absolute trash.

[@Thistlespawn]

@@fernanda5487 There's basically a joke in Whedon's script for Wonder Woman where Steve Trevor accidentally touches the lasso of truth and tells Diana she has nice boobs. The version of this joke used in JL is toned down, but still cringe imo. The pole dancing scene... is undescribeable. Basically, Diana walks into a bar to get some information but, because the menz are dismissive toward her, she decides to pole dance to get their attention? For some reason??Joss Whedon has lost his damn mind.

[@Thistlespawn]

@@gateauxq4604 Thank you, I will! It sounds really interesting.

[@ultimamage3]

_"I also wonder but fear to know WHAT kind of ideas Whedon was originally having for Cyborg."_ If it's anything like what he was going on about for Vision during Age of Ultron, he was 1000% more than likely obsessing around whether Cyborg had a penis and forcing people to make concept art of it and making sure it's anatomically correct. Source on Vision: Paul Bettany. “I know that Joss Whedon apparently really, really wanted - the rendition of him, when Vision first is born, before he was clothed, he was like ‘he’s got to have a penis', and everyone, Kevin [Feige] and Louis [D’Esposito], I mean everybody was like ‘I don’t know, Joss…I mean…I’m not sure…’ [but Whedon countered with] 'He has to have a penis! I want to see some drawings of penises.'"

[@sidneyrosey]

If Snyder was treated like this by a major studio, I have small heart palpitations thinking about what the BIPOC creators have to deal with . . .

[@tatehildyard5332]

I’m gonna point you towards the production history of Spike Lee’s Malcom X biopic. Spike went over WB’s head to achieve the epic scale he wanted and they responded by cutting off the remaining cash needed for post production. Spike had to call up Cosby, Oprah, Janet Jackson, Tracy Chapman, Lebron, and Jordan, to write some checks to pay for the remaining post work. It generated a lot of attention in the press and WB caved and let him back in the editing room.

[@Kaefer1973]

@@tatehildyard5332 On the one hand I get why the studio doesn't want the director to "act out", but if they work with Spike Lee on a Malcom X biopic, that is no excuse. Everyody knows Spike Lee's passion, they should either be willing to give him his freedom or not work with him at all, it was obvious something like this could have happened.

[@Based_Gigachad_001]

Why do people use BIPOC? Native Americans are VERY racist.

[@alohalyon6643]

I don’t know why people get Superman so wrong. He’s not an ubbermench. He’s a farm boy. His parents taught him values and humility. That’s one thing I love about him

[@Matthew_Raymond]

Snyder gets Lex Luthor wrong too, and Lex is the ultimate Objectivist übermensch. If Snyder really wanted to deconstruct Superman from an Objectivist viewpoint, he should have made Lex the hero and Superman a tankiesque villain for a corrupt, authoritarian establishment, drawing on elements of Red Son and Injustice. Problem is no one would go see it except people who can quote lines from the Fountainhead. Of course, Snyder also couldn’t make that kind of movie because Lex Luthor is the customary villain and people would be confused, so he tried to make Superman the Objectivist hero instead, which is entirely contrary to Superman’s nature. Actually, that might make an interesting movie with a few tweaks: Make a Superman movie, told from Lex’s point of view, where Superman’s selflessness transforms Lex Luthor from a self-absorbed Libertarian villain to a grey antihero who begrudgingly accepts Superman as a sort of “necessary evil”.

[@TheFlash-rh2el]

Well there is no right and wrong for a start. Art is about identity. The artists are from whom the identities come, not the characters within the fiction.

[@impo1820]

@@TheFlash-rh2el I think that's true to a point - in this case, the film is an adaptation of a culturally iconic character, and there's room to critique the way the character is portrayed, in that context. Though I do think it's fine to critique the film outside of the context of adaptation, it's just also somewhat instinctual (for me at least) to first note that the immediate reason the movie is relevant to me is because Superman is the title character.

[@vysharra]

@@Matthew_Raymond there is a short series called Superman: American Alien that explores this theme (in the background, it’s not overt). Luthor is an established Objectivist hero, he’s a genius with a self-made empire whose whims keeps the largest most modern city running day and night. Clark is a newbie Collectivist who can’t understand why no one stands up for their neighbors. It advocates, essentially, for the middle ground but I mentioned it because the Luthor you described is right there and he’s menacing without any of the supervillain posturing,

[@Matthew_Raymond]

@@vysharra Thank you for your suggestion. However, I won’t be reading that comic because its writer, Max Landis, is by many accounts a terrible human being. I do appreciate the sentiment, though.

[@KaiInMotion]

IMO the real Snyder cut is when Zack Snyder literally cuts my head off so I can finally be at peace. No, but for real I won't watch any version of the movie Justice League but I WILL watch Melina Pendulum talk about it for an hour and one minute and thirty seconds lol.

[@kilgore_trout_37]

Saaaammeee

[@Nickbrady25]

The real Snyder cut are the enemies we made along the way

[@FortheLoveofMonsters]

wow. mood.

[@dvdscds9539]

At least try to watch it before siding with someone who clearly had a biased opinion.

[@MsPig1985]

Zzz zzzzzzzzzzzz zzz zzz zzzzzzzzzzzz zzz zzz zzzzzz

[@larsnyman2455]

I can’t believe the “Superman Screaming” gif actually sounded like that

[@emilyrln]

"We can't make him mad" is a very sus thing to have to say. Like, that sounds like you're talking about a seven-year-old boy king who could have you whipped. Wtf??

[@vampirefrompluto9788]

Honestly, I think the main reason that Birds of Prey didn't make more money at the box office was a lack of marketing. I saw only a few ads/plays of the trailer in the month leading up to it's release. On the bright side though BoP has done pretty well on PVOD & Margot Robbie is continuing to get major roles & awards nominations so maybe we will eventually get a sequel or non-direct follow up (Gotham City Sirens, solo Harley Quinn, Harley/Joker).

[@orhanamin1347]

Because #GetWokeGoBroke

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

We are getting a Black Canary movie on HBO Max.

[@sir_stride]

As a Snyder fan/ex-Snyder "cultist", genuinely can't express fully how nice it is to see someone finally put down the cold hard facts of the situation without full on bashing Snyder and the like. We need to remember that these people are human. Same as everyone.

[@wolight]

wrt the Kill Bill monologue: I feel like a lot of people don't put that scene in its proper context. Which is that Bill is a user of people, a cult leader who decided to get into the murder-for-hire business instead of the white robes and poison kool-aid business. So of course he's going to have that interpretation of Superman

[@vanirie434]

I think there's a real argument to be made that Warner created a problem with a combination of misaimed market research and old-fashioned attitudes and then basically scapegoated Snyder for... doing what he was hired to do... Like, they *hired* Snyder to make the movies to look like that and have that Objectivist vibe and then when that was *bad,* they acted like Snyder had disappointed them somehow and pulled all of that completely reprehensible bullshit. I think you nailed it that the problem is largely that everyone came out for Snyder exclusively, leaving everyone else who is getting screwed by doing the thing Warner hired them to do and Warner deciding after that that's not what they *really* wanted because it has ceased being "cool". Not even unprofitable, just uncool and harder to market.

[@Temudhun]

Yeah, I also feel like the directors for the early DCEU movies were under a constant double bind, with the studio asking them to do the same thing as the MCU to replicate the formula while doing something different from the MCU to be seen as the alternative.

[@music_YT2023]

Cleavage-exposition LOL But yes, Whedon's weird need to inject awkward dynamics between characters (especially negging) is so wildly and tonally out of place when compared to the Snyder cut. Also agreeeeeed on Rosenbaum, best, sexiest and sinister Luther. I'm surprised the new Suicide Squad is so low on your rankings though, humor hit better than Aquaman.

[@handsoaphandsoap]

The new Suicide Squad is just dumb fun and a good one off film which I really like. I guess mileage may vary depending on what you want from these superhero movie universes, personally I’m so sick of the endless connectivity of the MCU that it was a breath of fresh air to have this movie that doesn’t have to be anything more than itself, which reminded me a lot of Birds of Prey, easily the best DC movie in this new era of the DCEU.

[@dominiqueodom3099]

Lies,Lex Luthor from the DCAU or season 2 of Young Justice

[@music_YT2023]

@@dominiqueodom3099 Ah! You can't bring in the animated counterparts, it would undoubtedly skew the scales to Clancy's Brown's DCAU Luthor every time.

[@KabbalahSherry]

The new Suicide Squad tries too hard. 🙄 lol It's honestly not that funny, and besides... who's laughing about an entire village of freedom fighters, getting blown to bits, and played off as one big joke afterwards?! I didn't mind the killing, but to have our characters realize they killed so many GOOD people, and just not even give AF, well then I mean... why are we rooting for any of them either?! And who cares about Peacemaker? He's the worst character in the movie, and yet he's getting his own TV show?! 😒 Gross. WHY??

[@handsoaphandsoap]

@@KabbalahSherry They're bad guys??? That's kind of the whole premise????? They're villains, that's why they're sent on this mission. I'm not sure why you'd assume they'd be an example of good morality or why you'd assume anyone going into the film would assume so either. And we can laugh at the freedom fighter scene because it didn't actually happen. It's just a movie. We know no one was actually harmed and they're just actors, the audience is fully aware of the artifice of the entire movie. Like, it's just a movie dude, it's not that serious.

[@valeriarossini543]

the studio’s treatment of Snyder during such a tragic time in his life was truly truly gross omg :(

[@clarapilier]

I am not a Snyder fan, but what they did to him is disgusting.

[@c17sam90]

I’m going to be honest here it was the only option anyone had. If they say Snyder was fired because he made a bad film and wasn’t playing ball with them in edit he looks bad and childish. If it then comes out his daughter died the studio look bad. If they kept him on they could be accused of not letting a family grieve and if the film comes out and is bad it makes everyone look bad. The only option was to remove him and say we are letting him look after his family. It makes everyone look good it makes it look like he didn’t make a bad film and is being a devoted family man and makes the studio look like they are letting him be with his family. The film couldn’t be delayed if they pushed it bad a few months it hits black Panther, a few more avengers and all the other summer movies.

[@vadalia3860]

lol Thank you for calling out that bullshit Clark Kent vs Superman speech from Bill in Kill Bill. The fact people buy into that nonsense from someone who died 37 seconds later because he's never been right about a goddamn thing in his life is so annoying.

[@turnintino]

Lmao amen

[@whatalsaid]

So the boys and Invincible portrays the Superman character as bad. Both those shows air on Amazon Prime. Amazon Prime is owned by Jeff Bezos. Jeff Bezos is considered by many as the real life Lex Luthor. Coincidence? I think NOT!!!

[@daalimbe]

you connected the dots

[@handsoaphandsoap]

I will never understand that Kill Bill line about Clark, to me it’s always seemed more like Superman is the performance while Clark is just who he is. I mean, he’s been Clark his whole life but doesn’t become Superman until adulthood. I have a hard time believing he can keep up the facade of Clark Kent for all those long periods of times he presents that way, as opposed to the significantly fewer times he has to perform on a public forum as Superman. That theory also implies that he’s performing an identity to his adopted parents as he’s Clark around them too which, no. The way I see it, Superman is the equivalent of how a celebrity might present themselves knowing there’s a camera on them, while Clark is the way they’d act around people they actually know. The other way around just doesn’t make sociological sense.

[@rutheglasses4677]

Bill was definitely talking about Silver Age Superman, the one from the 60s. Bronze Age and Modern Superman, sure, in those cases it's pretty clear that Superman is the performing identity while Clark Kent is the real deal. In all his humble, compassionate farmer-boy-in-the-big-city glory. But in the Silver Age, it did felt like Clark Kent was the mask or the fake identity, especially because he was so over-the-top goofy and clumsy. While Superman was his real identity, the perfect power fantasy who gets to do all the cool stuff kids wanted to read in comics. Luckily imo, time and tastes changed.

[@ItWasBetterBefore]

It's maybe worth considering whether Bill is a reliable source. His interpretation of Superman might be serving to justify his own villainy.

[@turnintino]

@@ItWasBetterBefore Was going to say this myself! I think that scene could definitely be read as more damning of Bill's character than any legitimate thesis on Superman himself. Readers project! And a character's reading should always tell us more about the character than anything else. That said, I can't speak to Tarantino's intent. 🤷‍♂️ But Beatrix does still kill Bill in the end, so we know the narrative isn't telling us he was redeemable lol. Just charming.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

@@turnintino I was also going to point that out. Tarrantino has had his characters interpreting pop culture to tell you about those characters, not about the pop culture, since the Like a Virgin scene in Reservoir Dogs.

[@snorpenbass4196]

@@ItWasBetterBefore Oh, he's definitely talking about himself. As someone who grew up reading the Silver Age and then the post-Byrne Supermans (plural), the Silver Age Superman didn't make Clark a bumbling fool to mock humans, but to make it harder to guess he was Superman. He actually had quite a lot of respect for humanity, and the whole trope about him wanting to redeem his villains because he knew they could do way better is in fact from that era of comics.

[@kingofthebis1068]

“BRUCE WAYNE FEELING A BUNCH OF WHITE GUILT OVER THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN” 🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭

[@RandomBlackGamer]

Zack Snyder is a masterclass of visual storytelling. I always champion him as style incarnate. But sometimes his scenes overstay their welcome. They can come off awkward because he's trying to make you feel what he does with these characters being modern gods. He also has it bad with eagerly wanting to adapt certain things that he finds cool without the proper build-up to them. I think the missing component with his pictures is a good writer. Someone who sees his vision but aren't hesitant to reel him in when it comes to compromising badass action over a good story. He just needs a healthy balance of both.

[@amekgomo5250]

Exactly, and someone has to confiscate his slow motion button.

[@diegoclark7697]

The claims you make aren't even close to being true. The writing is superb, the story is great, action is badass. There's a balance.

[@RandomBlackGamer]

@@diegoclark7697 see this is a comment where you can tell if someone's a die hard Snyder fan. Which is cool. I enjoy his work. Man of Steel is my favorite superhero movie and soundtrack. But I can't gloss over the fact that his biggest weakness is storytelling. He's great when he adapts popular stories like 300 and Watchmen. But when hes trying to construct his own story it's less than stellar. As Melina pointed he wasn't the best choice to establish this universe WB wanted. But he was a key ingredient in showing how cool these characters can be.

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

@@diegoclark7697 Yeah you keep telling yourself that. Seriously people overhyped that movie for pure desperation for the DCEU. Overall it was a discrete movie that didn't need 4h

[@miratunatar]

@@RandomBlackGamer This is simply untrue. Look at watchmen and 300. Are they poor stories? Also the source material simply is not that great. They had to merge detective comics somehow with superman. Is atlantis about logic? Or an island of women? If there is something nonsensical its the source material. I love DC comics dont get me wrong. But Snyder made this make more sense than anyone could have. Look at marvel its bland and unfunny and all the same. But is it better written? Oh no!

[@thaboiinblue]

I do NOT need to see evil Superman any more. We good with what we got, tbh.

[@nailinthefashion]

they're totally going to do an injustice live film one day, and the marketing will be abysmal despite it being one of the most well received stories they've created. they'll neverrrrr let him rest or be truly happy lmao

[@johnjessop9456]

Yeah we have an abundance of evil Superman we've got Omni man we've got homelander and the inustice games if you want an evil Superman you've got access to one in a wide variety of flavors. All of which do something interesting with the archetype. Let's just let Superman be the alien immigrant who grew up with a kind and loving family from Kansas who punches the KKK and who would take time out of saving the world to listen to the woes of a suicidal teenager.

[@pietzsche]

@@johnjessop9456 The only evil Superman ever needed was the Public Spirit from Marshall Law Fear and Loathing, Homelander is a poor and obvious ripoff, well worth checking out if you haven't read it. Head and shoulders above the others.

[@FreyaEinde]

I hate the Chad bro idealogy that Superman is boring and doing good is easy...so fucking much. This era cannot die fast enough. Anybody who's not fifteen knows that doing the right thing with no training wheels on is hella hard, write better screenwriters!

[@IIxIxIv]

I know it's got hella problems but one thing MHA does right is that their superman man is 100% good and pure

[@mahrinui18]

The conservative newspaper at my college has a superhero movie correspondent who recently released an article on how evil and/or diverse versions of Superman and Captain America are literally destroying America, and I'm this close to starting a KZbin channel just to clown on it.

[@mitchierainbow7353]

Do it. Start that KZbin channel😊

[@alphabettical1]

Maybe keep your face out of it for anonymity (safety) and also humor. Idk, whenever I mention my college online I hesitate, going 'people could totally find me now'.

[@JediMB]

TAS Batman going "I had a bad day, too... once" is way more touching than it has any right to be.

[@Lucifersfursona]

I am one of like idk 50 people alive that unironically adore Sucker Punch, and don’t really like much else of his work, to the point I was surprised to find out Snyder even made Sucker Punch 😂

[@moustik31]

I feel the same about him and 300. I love that movie so much, it's where Snyder peaked IMO. Anything he directed before and after never reach the same level of perfection. 😂 (And I know, the ideology behind 300 is heinous. I just like a good peplum/B movie. Those one-liners: chef's kiss)

[@Lucifersfursona]

@@moustik31 it’s also really fun to look at if you’re gay and wanna watch a bunch of stacked dudes slow motion warring 😏

[@pape14]

It’s on one of the streaming service and I’ll throw it on if I can’t find anything else. I pretty much watch the whole movie for the WW1 scene which i love.

[@moustik31]

@@Lucifersfursona This is the sweet sweet unintended irony of hypermasculinity. And one of the (many?) reasons I love that movie. What a romp! 😁

[@ShellsGhost1]

@@moustik31 300 for me only works because at the end you see the entire story is 100% propaganda being told to men who are about to possibly die against a superior enemy.

[@cat_strangler2603]

Every time I see the notification for one of your videos it feels like Christmas

[@ianbailey4213]

You are so damn right about Hal Jordan being a villain. IMO it's way more interesting to have the guy whose whole schtick is "my will won't break" to get his will broken and become a pretty legitimate villain. Evil Superman was fun and novel when Injustice first came out IMO but as we've gotten more evil Supermen the appeal wears thin.

[@erikrungemadsen2081]

Only evil Superman story i really enjoy is Red Son. The animated Crisis on Two Earths was fun, but not because of Ultraman. Evil Superman stories have been beaten to death with a shovel, resurected and beaten to death again this time with a fancier shovel.

[@Whatlander]

Plus it gets Hal Jordan out of the way so we can get to the _good_ Green Lantern, finally.

[@tappytoeclaws2233]

I have to clean my house today and this is the PERFECT thing to get me to do it. Hell yeah Princess in my ears 🙌

[@thrawncaedusl717]

As I said to a friend who recommended I watch the Snyder cut, taking a D-level 2 hour movie and turning it into a C-level 4 hour movie is not really a good selling point.

[@seanian8986]

Eh, it's more like the original four hour version was unfinished and then turned into the two hour version. But if you're just not interested in the characters or the story I don't think the Snyder Cut is going to change your mind

[@KabbalahSherry]

@@seanian8986 - Right?! 🙄 Why even watch?!

[@Nassit-Gnuoy]

The Snyder Cut is still D-level. It has just as many problems, if not moreso, than the Whedon cut.

[@Cbriggs502]

@@Nassit-Gnuoy i love how mad you haters are the snyder cut got released and also was a hit please continue with your saltiness

[@Reverse_Hood]

@@Cbriggs502 complete delusion

[@Erin-io3fv]

DCEU contains both my absolute favourite and most hated comic book movies. They're so polarizing to me but you're right - because of their overall brand reputation the hits aren't celebrated while the misses are blown up.

[@orenthall]

The fact that DC never capitalized on the popularity of Justice League Unlimited's Hawk Girl will forever vex me

[@moustik31]

Your Peach Girl fan art always brings such a smile to my face. Momo is the sweetest shoujo heroin. She deserves more recognition than us geriartic Millenials. 😊💜

[@katherinealvarez9216]

36:49 but...there's Homelander and The Plutonian from Irredeemable. They're there so that Superman can still be a nice Midwestern farm boy. Heck, the show seems to be embracing it. 37:59 and I say that little speech was made by a man who killed a whole wedding party, put Beatrix in a coma, took thier daughter and was killed by Beatrix at the end. I'm thinking that's more revealing of his character.

[@noheterotho179]

The absolute *vindication* in seeing Shazam and Aquaman rated so high - nothing but facts

[@whoaneli]

so happy seeing Shazam in your top 3 😄 i feel like it doesn’t get enough love for just being a fun, heart-warming, found family story

[@JerryAlmonte]

Not taking away from what you said about Ezra and the crash scene, but I think that it was said that Barry was being extra careful in moving her so as to not rip her to shreds due to how fast he was moving, which would then make his weird hand movements make sense. Although I don’t remember if Snyder said that or someone else, but it’s interesting either way. Great video!

[@thaboiinblue]

Also the Black Canary movie is coming!!! Praise Hera!!! 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾

[@TheWormsHole]

I thought it was a series?

[@mikakestudios5891]

Ben Afflect is a perfectly serviceable Batman/Bruce Wayne. He projects the sheer tiredness of someone who has a debatable number of children and he should have gotten a better script to work with.

[@stoneheart8231]

Definitely! I think he would be the best fit for Batman if the movies were to introduce any of the Robins. One of my favorite aspects of Batman has always been how deeply he cares for children, in his own awkward and emotionally stunted way. He's by no means a perfect father figure (as seen with Jason), but he always tries his best.

[@ttubebaby]

Watching Justice League got me so accustomed to hearing those ancient lamentation sounds every time WW is on screen I actually filled them in myself while I was watching this.

[@stephenbradford8524]

I’d somehow forgotten that Shazam ends with a cameo from Mr. Mind, and now more Shazam is all I want.

[@dramonmaster222]

Let's be real. When the BTS drama is MORE interesting than the actual movie...you got problems. Plus I don't think it helps matters that WB was in such a rush to compete with Marvel that they ruined their own products instead of taking their time to properly build their universe through Solo character movies and then having their big Team Up movie. I mean I don't think it's a coincidence that Shazam, Wonder Woman and Aquaman were such big hits. Also, I am just tired of Evil Superheroes. Being Evil is easy while being Good is a constant struggle.

[@jlwest23]

What I really didn't like is how the DC fandom and especially the "Comic Reviewers" side of KZbin used this issue with Ray to make fun of him and lesson his problems with Weadon. But this just reminds me of the toxic sets that actors like Candice Patton, Mechad Brooks and other POC actors deal with when it comes to comics and even video games. Like the crap they kept slinging at Mechad for playing Jimmy Oslen to the point the supergirl fandom took issue with everything with his character. I was relieved he left the show because honestly the Berlanti and them weren't combating the toxic issues on set. Same with Candice Patton like the disrespect from her fellow costar to the makeup and set department but all you see from the DC CW crowd is " We Stand for everyone" except if your black then you have to have tough skin because DC won't help you nor fight create a better environment. Its always the same if said black actor insert name here has issue with receipts of the set being very toxic never believed or their being " difficult" to work and or a "crybaby".

[@moustik31]

Wait, I think, I missed this. Was the actor who played The Flash disrespectful to Candice Patton?

[@nailinthefashion]

DC has always given me "straight white male conservatives trying to appease the masses" energy whereas Stan 'the Man' Lee was a "straight white male trying to fulfill everyone's needs and shape a greater tomorrow" it'll be soooo interesting to see if or when they pass the mantles through the DCU to the more progressive "woke" characters. if they keep doing reboots of the original ones like Bruce, Clark etc they're gonna keep digging their grave

[@ultimamage3]

@@moustik31 Not OP: Grant Gustin hasn't been disrespectful to Candice Patton. The issue is more between her and Danielle Panabaker (Caitlin Snow). DP tried to push herself as a leading actress in the show even though she's just a supporting actress and Candice is the lead (gets first billing before Panabaker). DP also regularly riled up her Twitter fandom by getting them to hate on Iris and asking them loaded questions ("what do you think of [insert what Iris did that's supposedly controversial]"). She interacts heavily with Snowbarry shipping fandom, a fandom that's still rabid to the point of wanting Iris to die, saying Barry loving Iris makes him a morally worse person, hoping Barry chooses Caitlin even after 7 seasons of him not doing that and marrying Iris a bunch of times, photoshopping Candice Patton out of any images with Grant Gustin and replacing her with Danielle, insisting that the biracial children that Barry and Iris have are the children of a Snowbarry ship, etc. Danielle would also livetweet episodes of the Flash and specifically not mention Iris/Candice even if the episode was focused on her character. And whenever DP mentions the "Shethority" platform Candice launched with Caity Lotz, DP would mention Caity's name and contributions but leave Candice out even though Candice verifiably put in work for it (created merch, wrote articles, maintained the website).

[@moustik31]

@@ultimamage3 Jeezus! and thanks for the info. Danielle Panabaker is positively nasty. It's a real shame, that her behaviour doesnt get her labelled "difficult to work with". NB: I do understand, where Danielle's entitlement/privilege comes from though. When pushing for "diversity", creators have a tendency to add a Black love interest to their show, but fail to be inspired enough by them to write them good storylines. I think, these creative team just dont find these Black actors attractive. It's really shallow but IMO that's what happened to Supergirl, Titans and Sleepy Hollow (?), where unexpected White love interests kept poping up to sideline the official ship. It DIDNT happen to The Flash though, as far as I can tell. Iris is beautifully valued in the show and appreciated. So, here we are. I'm sorry for Candace Patton. Doesnt sound like she got much support from the rest of her coworkers. 😒

[@marumae]

@@ultimamage3 Well this is depressing as shit, thanks for the info. I used to love Danielle and by extension Caitlin but this sours the hell out of my opinion of her.

[@LaurasBookBlog]

hottest take: Patty Jenkins' "Monster" makes a more coherent feminist point than Patty Jenkins' "Wonder Woman."

[@FreyaEinde]

If I had the energy to write a thesis on how "performative feminism" in media feels like a deliberate undermining of the movement I would. But I'm burnt!

[@rawalshadab3812]

@@FreyaEinde If it's any consolation, I'd read that.

[@noahmartinez5002]

This is a hot take????

[@c17sam90]

I wonder how much of that is because they starred women who can act and Wonder Woman had Gal Gadot basically being paraded round by other actors as a prop because she wasn’t any good at dramatic scenes.

[@Boggythefroggy]

I was going to say re:the whole Ayn Rand stuff - in her work, the heroes and villains have the same motives so it makes sense how same-y Snyder makes his protagonists and antagonists. I really liked Sophie from Curio’s videos on Snyder cos it really explained well why I get put off by a lot of his movies haha.

[@125loopy]

Thank you for the recommendation!

[@cui8789]

Snyder's heroes are only vaguely similar to Rand's in shallow ways. Sophie's video also had a lot of inaccuracies which were pointed out by LGBT and Muslim viewers that she ignored.

[@noahmartinez5002]

I'd love if he finally got to adapt the Fountainhead, if I'm not mistaken he's economically left so there'd be some dope commentary tho. Dear God please let this man make Atlas Shurgeed

[@turtleboy1188]

@@cui8789 Snyder is misunderstood

[@kostajovanovic3711]

@@cui8789 like Style is Substance's video on Snyder?

[@ellesig4708]

That's how I always thought about Superman too, basically Superman is what you get when your power fantasy is to help people. Most of the time stories about powerful characters become corrupt and drunk on power. Superman is suppose to be a more enlightened, like absolute power does not corrupt absolutely, power simply reveals what you would do if you could. Money is the closest thing to a super power in our reality, and most famous examples of people who seek that power only want to maintain the status quo. A cured patient/a solved problem is a lost customer.

[@kingofenigma9534]

Good statement

[@tendibee]

That Zimmer theme over Clark in the Black suit... Phew gets me every time🥺

[@BoboftheOldeWays]

I agree with your rankings! Aquaman has unironically been my favorite DC superhero since I was a kid who loved swimming, wanted to talk to animals, and was obsessed with the myth of Atlantis. I was so happy to see this character treated as a serious hero in a movie that single-handedly reversed his joke status. And casting a Pacific Islander in the role was, in my opinion, a brilliant touch... especially against a villain who looked like comic book Aquaman. Such a great, subtle commentary on race and hero imagery. I'm really excited to see the sequel!

[@emmanuelbangalika527]

Seeing you in my notifications immediately brightened my night.

[@jorieshouse]

YAAAASSSSS Finally someone says it: Michael Rosenbaum is bald bae foreva and Batfleck *could* have been a gift to batfans everywhere.

[@Lynch2507]

I am extremely bored of "what if superman but evil", like, we got that. In this franchise. General Zod. He was in the other movie. Like.. what

[@GoldieSC]

Every time I see the Sesshomaru picture in the background, my heart breaks a little more for what Yashahime has done to him.

[@Shrilaraune]

I'm honestly pretending Yashahime doesn't exist for that exact reason. I haven't watched it or been spoiled. So, so far so good.

[@adoniscreed4031]

never give time of day to sequels with the kids as protags, specially if theyre not done by the author... Boruto and Cursed Child are so goddamn awful 😂

[@mhawang8204]

As you’re ranking all the DCEU movies, I realize I’ve only seen Birds of Prey and Wonder Woman. Birds of Prey (last movie I saw in theatre before the pandemic shutdown) was so much fun! Sadly it didn’t do too well. I really hope they continue with those characters and cast, but I’m not holding my breath. 😔

[@scrutinous]

I totally agree with Aquaman being the best DCEU movie, I think it's probably the best film adaptation you could do of Aquaman

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

The Suicide Squad was sooooo much better imo.

[@meggy0]

The main thing I don’t like about Aquaman is that we got Malignant from it hahaha.

[@OsSas3]

They tried to do many things in one movie: they should've saved Black Manta for the sequel, just keeping the killed father in the movie. Also, the Kraken should've stopped the war just leaving Orm and Aquaman to fight. Arthur has a problem with people dying on Earth by Atlantis but has no problem killing atlanteans, hypocrit. Also, save the fricking kiss till the end, didn' they learned from Superman lissing Lois over dying people in Metropolis? NOT THE TIME. I like Aquaman and I love the comics the movie is based of but they just did EVERYTHING.

[@eyefetisheyezlesbians9074]

Ain’t no way anybody actually thinks this 😹😹😹

[@johnjessop9456]

I prefer Henry Cavill when he's allowed to emote. See: The Witcher.

[@SirThinks2Much]

Also the Man from U.N.CLE., I didn’t realize how charming he could be

[@fatpenguin1500]

He emotes like all the time in the DCEU... what do you mean by emote?

[@johnjessop9456]

@@fatpenguin1500 I mean showing emotion that isn't grim stoicism. His other big role is as a mercenary monster Hunter who supposedly doesn't feel human emotions and he shows a wider emotional range in that role than as Superman. Who should be the superhero willing to take time off from saving the world to help a suicidal teenager.

[@fatpenguin1500]

@@johnjessop9456 Superman cries, smiles shows grief and concern in the DCEU. He even takes his time to go to a bulied kids lunch hour. IDK what more you want.

[@trenvert123]

@@fatpenguin1500 Lol. Are you talking about Shazam? The scene where he doesn't show his face, and only shows up, presumably because another superhero asked him to as a favor? I thought you were serious until you got to that part. That's a funny, sneaky diss.

[@theoian]

She's back!

[@caridadchang7895]

apparently Aquaman 2 is taking longer to film because Momoa is recovering from getting covid so hopefully he feels fine again soon and we all get to see the sequel.

[@canonicallytrans]

No joke dident watch the Wheadon cut, but I did watch the Snyder cut. I really dislike most of his work but I really....understood what he was trying to do.

[@tantra69]

you are the most loveable of the youtubers. ive never seen most of the media you cover, but im just here everytime.

[@Princess_May]

Have I seen justice League or the Snyder cut? No Am I about to watch an hour long video about the drama surrounding both movies? Yes

[@MyKeyMoonShine]

Honestly loved this, I have a very simmilar relationship with Snyder where I like some aspects of his work and dislike others. I think like you I just fundamentally disagree with ideology behind most of his work. He doesn't seem to understand these characters at all. On the other hand he is a very competent director in many ways and he doesn't seem to be horrible like a lot of directors. The cyborg arc is great in the Snyder cut and I don't think many directors would have done that. For me Birds Of Prey and The Suicide Squad are the direction I'd love to see DC go in but neither of those movies did super great sadly. Basically everything you already said in the video. The Snyder Cut was fun though and I want these movies to be fun.

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

When I told a friend at school that I loved Birds of Prey, he started complaining about how it was feminist propaganda. He's not my friend anymore :)

[@MyKeyMoonShine]

@@sophitiaofhyrule it pisses me off so much how the fandom has treated this movie. They tried to do the same thing to TSS but James Gunn is more popular in nerd circles and isn't a woman so it didn't work as well.

[@seanian8986]

My three favorite dceu movies are BoP, ZSJL and TSS 🥰

[@orhanamin1347]

"For me Birds Of Prey and The Suicide Squad are the direction I'd love to see DC go in but neither of those movies did super great sadly." Nope, It was Trash And Stupid, Because Nobody Cares, Go Touch Your Grass, And Nobody likes You, Go Watch Squid Game On Netflix, Oh and As a Peacemaker Series, No Thanks (Because China LOL) #BoycottPeacemakerSeries #BoycottJamesGunn #PleaseFiredJamesGunnFromDC #ReleaseTheAyerCut #RestoreTheSnyderverse #SuckItWarnerBrothers #SuckItJamesGunn

[@orhanamin1347]

@@seanian8986 Birds Of Prey and The Suicide Squad Sucks, Because It Was Awful. #BoycottJamesGunn #PleaseFiredJamesGunnFromDC #ReleaseTheAyerCut #RestoreTheSnyderverse #SuckItWarnerBrothers #SuckItJamesGunn

[@DrGaslight187]

I’m glad that you brought up Miller’s transgressions because I’m protesting DC media over it. Can’t stand them and their racism.

[@caitlina5776]

Super excited to get my nuance mug! Love the merch sm and so glad you were able to make it!!! ♥️💜💙💛💚

[@dokiepkosa]

Hmmmm yesss excited to sit back, be a lil’ high, and let Princess Weekes deliver her DC opinion to me 🥲

[@JohnConstantine666]

love when you do DC videos as a DC fan they are always good

[@jacobbohrer6440]

“Let’s not fridge a woman to do Injustice” lmao

[@samirabdel-aziz478]

One of my favorite superman quotes I use to counter the Kill Bill monologue is from Lois and Clark of all places. "Clark is who I am, Lois, Superman is what I can do."

[@lindseywashburn7364]

Even I, a Marvel stan, enjoy hearing you discuss DC :3

[@P5A100]

I love your analysis video's, you always manage to be really even, to really Balance out your own feelings and fandom but while also being fair to all the properties you examine.

[@zacharyweiss7318]

Thank you for mentioning Doom Patrol it is the best live action thing DC has going for it right now. This is just my opinion but I like it more than literally every movie in the DCEU.

[@bombseel]

I'm hoping everything happening around film sets and the striking will help push big companues like WB to finally treat their workers right, from the bottom up.

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

The Church of the Algorithm gives this video its blessing, and must it stay clear of the blasphemers from The First Algorithmic Temple (and the many people impersonating their members).

[@ashtongaskill3980]

+ be it's name

[@toby4514]

Geez why do I keep seeing you around!!! You're everywhere!!

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

@@toby4514 Maybe you have a half decent taste in youtubers, ever thought about that?

[@toby4514]

@@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithmwhen you put it like that, i guess i do.

[@letamreviews1823]

Thanks for reminding me to finish my _Birds of Prey_ essay. Was a third of the way through watching it for the third time when I decided to take a very long (6 month) break.

[@katherinealvarez9216]

9:11 two kids recommended that I see this movie, saying "It's really stupid. You should see it." And I did.

[@lukecarlson4710]

A really good video as always. You’ve made me rethink how I feel about BVS in relation to Man of Steel, I generally prefer Man of Steel over BvS. I also wanted to say that I appreciate you out here on the internet defending Superman, I don’t think he gets enough love nowadays.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

As someone who hates Star Wars Episode 8, but hates haters of Episode 8 more, I can sympathize with your views on Snyder's fans. I thought the ideas in Episode 8 were great, I just didn't think it fit as the 2nd movie in the third trilogy in Star Wars. Hard to have your critiques of Star Wars and the immediately proceeding movie displayed so prominantly in the second movie and then still somehow make a coherent trilogy. Even if the critiques are reasonable.

[@MarioJaker]

This was great. Really touched on all the complex feels of digging the Snyder Cut. Also we don’t talk enough about how good Shazam is.

[@jackdoyle7453]

I love the closing conclusion. It makes sense. Perhaps Paul Dini should take over the universe

[@bronzebeetle8147]

Yet another fantastic video. I love hearing you talk about the DCEU.

[@cgrenadier]

Thumbs upping for this great vid (and the tank top). I have to add that people ignore that Clark Kent was raised by and grew up with the Kents, its not an identity, its who he really is. Superman is the act! Kill Bill and Man of Steel got it completely wrong.

[@Freshpickedrainbows]

Omg I did not expect that tank top. Amazing overall synopsis 👌

[@AceOfSevens]

DC even has some characters Snyder would be good for. Imagine if they had him do Etrigan or The Question. Superman was the last character he should work on.

[@OsSas3]

THIS. Just give directors the characters they REALLY understand. James Gunn is the perfect example, he turned down a Superman movie, cause he just wasn't into it, instead he chose Suicide Squad, comics he was familiar with.

[@orhanamin1347]

@@OsSas3 And it flopped, Because pandemic And HBO Max, Also TSS is Trash and Stupid. Go Touch Your Grass!!! #BoycottJamesGunn #PleaseFiredJamesGunnFromDC #ReleaseTheAyerCut #RestoreTheSnyderverse #SuckItWarnerBrothers #SuckItJamesGunn

[@elishawilson5342]

@@orhanamin1347 chill bro

[@elishawilson5342]

I disagree

[@LagrimaArdiente]

Really cool video!

[@thalesguidote3728]

The use of Megan's "body" is 💯

[@Spookybluelights]

James Wan doesn’t get enough credit for how fucking gleeful and batshit Aquaman feels. That movie is just ridiculous thing after ridiculous thing, like action figures smashing up against each other as it spans at least four different genres with an incredible cast that is used in fun and surprising ways. He and Mamoa are a wonderful team, Mamoa’s charisma is the only glue that could keep the messy and disparate parts together and feel cohesive and Wan understands that better than I think anyone does.

[@luthientinuviel3883]

Yeah, the film is kinda ridiculous, but it's fun when you engage in it as a goofy experience

[@DianeJasmine]

we do not need more injustice superman. society has progressed past the need for injustice superman.

[@eyefetisheyezlesbians9074]

Idk what you mean? Society has been the same as it always has been. Shite

[@charyaka]

I laughed at the stare down in BVS when Batman first saw Superman for like thirty minutes. Like… When you get caught watching corn. Eyes from across the room. Etc But honestly, Snyder making the Superman arch last over a couple of movies and ending on a jovial Superman was a good idea to me. I think that would’ve made it more of a pay off that way.

[@KabbalahSherry]

It would have been a phenomenal payoff. Now we'll never get it. 😒👹 Those devils over at Warner Bros need to be FIRED after everything we have found out about them.

[@sampsonraysimon]

Wow, you just broke it down to me why I still haven't watched the Snyder Cut. The f**kin fanbase.

[@BTDubbz]

I would low key love to watch a Zac Snyder reimagining of the Passion of the Christ, just without all of the Superman imagery, which honestly got a bit distracting.

[@politereminder6284]

Ewwww...why?🤷‍♀️ Or... Are you talking about BVS?

[@ulrik03]

I wonder if the success of Superman & Lois will let them make Superman more in the classic style on the big screen as well. Dark Superman is so played out.

[@Hank_Castle]

It's still just a horned god opening a portal in the sky and an army of faceless villains pouring out and a rag tag group has to put aside differences to save to world. Just like suicide squad

[@mollybrown9857]

I still think that DC is just better at writing shows. Which makes their treatment of their shows so upsetting. And yes, I'm still mad about the Constantine BS.

[@akkshayadwivedi]

Subscribed to your channel right after the tank top exposition.

[@dillon1037]

Doom Patrol has been carrying the DCEU for me recently.

[@dukephoenix5096]

i could watch princess weekes for hours, you re awesome

[@bridgetbaker7529]

I hope we get a Venom 2 review. That would be art.

[@nocturnal6876]

Ikr😹

[@SailorMoos3]

me clicking on this video: cool i needed something to play in the background me during this video: giving my full attention

[@toby5424]

Zack Synder's wonder woman is top tier. They really could redeem the franchise if they go all out for the last wonder woman movie.

[@KabbalahSherry]

THIS 🥲💯

[@TheReelRapNerd]

Pretty sure I'm alone in these comments after reading a lot of them, but I really don't understand the massive personal dislike for a guy that makes movies (This is not aimed at Melina, its ppl in the comments). He's probably one of the least problematic directors in Hollywood, yet he gets terrible amounts of slander hurled at him. I think releasing his version was warranted by the way the company snaked his film through the death of his daughter.

[@yeetcity2704]

Agreed. It's honestly terrible and annoying how much hate Snyder gets despite being a genuine good person

[@TheReelRapNerd]

@@yeetcity2704 for real tho. I just read a comment that says, "The real snydercut is if Snyder cut my head off to ease the pain of hearing about him," or something of that magnitude. Like, what has this guy done to warrant a comment like that?

[@NickPiers]

On a personal level, I've never had a problem with the guy. He seems like a legitimately nice person. Professionally, though, I think it's because his work can be...questionable and problematic. I don't necessarily agree with everything she said, but watch Maggie Mae Fish's videos on Snyder's films. She makes some good points, like how his Dawn of the Dead remake paints homosexuality in a negative light. Or how he makes Watchmen's Rorschach look like a hero instead of the Randian psychopath he is in the comic. Or when he makes statements like Superman needed to kill in order to learn that killing is bad. He's never been, to my knowledge, horribly controversial in terms of saying outright racist, sexist, or homophobic things, but his the way he adapts and interprets certain work, and the way he defends it, raises some questions.

[@TheReelRapNerd]

@@NickPiers that's the thing though, I've watched what she had to say and I think interpretation is just interpretation. Its not the end all be all for what the artist wants to say. If you've listened to Zack speak in all the interviews he's had, he doesn't strike me as a person who would go out of his way to disrespect a particular group of people. I've also had the pleasure of chatting with him during JL & Army of the dead press and not an ounce of malice is in the guy. Even before meeting him, I just don't see any of what she mentions about his films. I believe he presents concepts for discussion more than degrading people.

[@yeetcity2704]

@@NickPiers Well I've seen rebuttals on the first two points. I could link you the video, but as for Superman: the point wasn't for him to learn killing was bad it was to test him to see how far he would go to protect humanity. Here is Zod, a power being that is night unstoppable saying that he will kill every person on Earth and nothing will stop him. He is threatening a family while he is doing this. These are extreme circumstances that he's placing him in to test if the character could stick to his "code". For me, I enjoy that that type of obstacle

[@MK-gv1wd]

I really didn’t like either version of the Justice League. To be clear, there were things I thought were pretty neat. And the actors were quite good. I really like characters. I really like what they were doing. But the overall boring and bad storyline just doomed it. I will likely never watch the movies (whichever version) again. That being said, I’m still mad we won’t get the Affleck Batman versus Deathstroke movie.

[@sylvesterrahim7341]

Full of shit 🙄

[@fakename8713]

exactly! I want more of batfleck!

[@athenajaxon2397]

same I'm not excited for the Pattinson movies at all I'm over 30 year old Batman

[@DrCocofruit]

Happy birthdayyyyyyyyy 💖💖💖💖💖💖💖 This is the second vid I'm watching of your acc today and what a coincidence that it's on April 6 I was recommended the first one