The Roman Senate during the Republic

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[@dienkonig33]

I think the term back-benchers comes from the British Parliament, where members do indeed still sit on very cramped, green benches.

[@stuffystuffclub]

Ich Dien To be specific, the House of Commons: there are no backbenchers in the Lords since there's no real frontbench, and the benches are red in the Lords.

[@rationalroundhead6739]

Cramped during PMQ's, maybe. unless a bill has a three-line whip, those benches are very spacious indeed...

[@the-chillian]

@@rationalroundhead6739 Cramped in theory, anyway. There isn't enough seating in the chamber for all the MPs. This was done on purpose. After the chamber was wrecked during the Blitz, some proposed it be rebuilt to in a way that it could fit all members, but Churchill thought the cramped quarters was part of how Commons functioned and had it restored to the same dimensions as originally.

[@J3diMindTrix]

Yes, indeed, even with a cursory glance at the Commons, the lack of adequate seating to accommodate all MPs at once and the cramped conditions are quite obvious. I did not know whether this was by accident or design, I know that it is a very old building and thought perhaps people being on the whole smaller in the past might have been the reason. Churchill's decree to rebuild in the historically-accurate style certainly makes sense, though it still doesn't explain why there has seemingly never been enough room for a fully-attended session. That opens the door for a multitude of alternative explanations, along the lines of potential political wrangling and the opportunity to influence a bill. This is politics after all, and little seems to have changed in thousands of years. Say one party were to occupy all the more prominent positions in the chamber, it would lend itself towards guaranteeing a more favourable outcome for that party. Though having said that, the Speaker is essentially grand arbiter of the debate, and gets to choose who speaks, and for how long, much like the Princeps Senatus as described here; so that position wields immense power, as is to be expected. Perhaps second only to the PM. In any case, all this combined, testifies to the Commons often being referred to by its popular nickname, the 'Bear Pit'.

[@SdoubleA]

@@J3diMindTrix In the past we had way less MPs. The more our population grew, the more the need for more constituencies. Take a look at elections in the 80s and compared to now it looks like entire blocks of land have been split into 5.

[@JSparo-TotalWarMachinima]

Thanks to this video I was accepted in third year of history with 10.1 of average grade. By watching this video I managed to obtain an important 17 that literraly saved me from losing my scholarships. Thank you Historia Civilis, what you are doing is not only interesting, it is also very important.

[@M_Chen333]

4:05 " I have a proposal. It is good." I AM CONVINCED!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jtgd]

“ANTONY! VETO THE MOTION!”

[@jamescoffey4238]

Will you be doing a video about the senate during the Empire?

[@cognitivedisability9864]

Also what happened with the roman senate when the empires power center changed in the 3rd-4th century.

[@tacokoneko]

Wikipedia claims the following: When Constantine I founded Constantinople circa 330 AD, he created a second Roman Senate and Curia there in parallel with the Senate in Rome. This senate would go on to remain, despite reforms and crises, the senate of the Byzantine Empire until at least the sack of Constantinople by the 4th crusade in 1204 AD. The Roman Senate in Rome, meanwhile, continued to exist after the Ostrogoths captured Italy, through the recapture of Italy by Justinian I, and through the capture of Italy by the Lombards, until at least 603 AD. In 630 AD, Pope Honorius I converted the Curia in Rome that Julius Caesar constructed into a Christian Church, and it is unknown what happened to the senate by this point. The Curia Julia building in Rome still exists there, in a barren and stripped state. Its original bronze front double doors were removed in the 17th century and are currently installed in the Archbasilica of St. John Lateran, the oldest and most important Catholic church, in Rome.

[@tacokoneko]

i do want him to make more videos about the Empire

[@sextuspompeius1266]

I heard that later on in the empire it was pretty much a city council

[@Zqppy]

@@tacokoneko that's not at all what they meant

[@toastmapping7525]

The 8 dislikes must be from a couple kings of Rome. Their still a little salty.

[@iuliusconstantcornelio2018]

ToastMapping Rome only had 7 kings !

[@maciekGTR]

they're*

[@MeAreAwesome64]

Iulius Constant Cornelio Remus probably disliked it as well

[@parthiancapitalist2733]

They're

[@parthiancapitalist2733]

Have fun being on YGS

[@nszone5611]

They must’ve called them pedarii because all they could do was walk to whoever they supported

[@krissp8712]

How pedestrian!

[@masterluxu1]

You’re the best dude. I haven’t been into Rome in a very long time. But you’re series has reignited that flame that was once so close to burning out. Thanks man(: and great work. Can’t wait to see what the future brings.

[@GameyRaccoon]

Your profile picture is cute

[@TTuoTT]

You have a well structured analytical language

[@ngolokante7805]

That's the word

[@the-chillian]

Late comment is late, but "backbencher" is much more a Westminster term than Washington, and in the UK, members of Parliament do indeed sit on benches. Junior MPs literally sit on the benches toward the back -- that is, closer to the wall. "Front benchers" refers to Cabinet members, or senior members of opposition parties, including the Shadow Cabinet, who literally sit on benches in front, i.e. along the center aisle. Perhaps not coincidentally, the House of Commons also votes with their feet, by stepping into one of two lobbies, at least when the majority cannot be determined from a voice vote. Hence the Speaker's order, "Division! Clear the lobbies!"

[@aclass360qwerty7]

The classics... its amazing to see how far you have come and how u have helped me to get best in year level for history for 3 years xD tx

[@cheydinal5401]

"Backbenchers" comes from the UK parliament where they literally have benches as well

[@willconnell9462]

If senile comes from the Latin root Senex meaning "old man" does that mran the phrase senile old man is a tautology?

[@georgebush9921]

its a root word not a prefix

[@withboldentreaty]

It is what it is.

[@sintes88]

Who cares?

[@satriaputrapratama4703]

"Old man with old man like behavious" would be the literal translation of senile old man

[@62peppe62]

It's the opposit of juvenile old man.

[@STLshark2013]

I really like your videos Historia Civilis! I have watched all of them at least twice if not more! Please keep making them this history nerd eats them up!

[@tepesobrejac4360]

A random consul: I AM THE PUBLIC ASSEMBLY !!

[@paxromana5834]

I still return to this series even after so many years. It's so excellent.

[@TrialByDance]

Roman Senate during the Empire? ;_;

[@htf5555]

_"I AM the Senate"_

[@crazyforcoffee5950]

htf5555 not yet

[@AragornRespecter]

Garythestormtrooper do it

[@tacokoneko]

Wikipedia claims the following: When Constantine I founded Constantinople circa 330 AD, he created a second Roman Senate and Curia there in parallel with the Senate in Rome. This senate would go on to remain, despite reforms and crises, the senate of the Byzantine Empire until at least the sack of Constantinople by the 4th crusade in 1204 AD. The Roman Senate in Rome, meanwhile, continued to exist after the Ostrogoths captured Italy, through the recapture of Italy by Justinian I, and through the capture of Italy by the Lombards, until at least 603 AD. In 630 AD, Pope Honorius I converted the Curia in Rome that Julius Caesar constructed into a Christian Church, and it is unknown what happened to the senate by this point. The Curia Julia building in Rome still exists there, in a barren and stripped state. Its original bronze front double doors were removed in the 17th century and are currently installed in the Archbasilica of St. John Lateran, the oldest and most important Catholic church, in Rome.

[@markcannon8522]

The empire sucks, no better than a barbarian kingdom

[@RagHelen]

Pedarius comes from the Senaculum, where you had to walk to a certain location and gather. This is similar to a division of the house and not backbenching. In German, the expression sheep jump is used.

[@FraserSouris]

It's great to watch through your videos chronolgically

[@TAK-yj4hj]

”I have a proposal. It is good.” It sure is. I am convinced

[@AnthonyBoylan]

Great! Thanks for your hard work putting this together. I'll teach it in my grade 11 class. To clarify, did the Public Assembly always vote or could they be completely bypassed by the person presenting the new legislation?

[@HistoriaCivilis]

Anthony Boylan Hi! Thanks so much. In a strictly legal sense, no, the Public Assembly could not be bypassed. But I get the impression that it was pretty easy to stuff it full of supporters, since it was just a couple hundred people (or so) informally gathered out in the open air. Either way, they still had to rubber stamp any new legislation. Weirdly, it could go the other way. The Senate *could* be bypassed, but almost never was. It was simply an established custom that the Senate approved any legislation before it went down to the Public Assembly, but there was no specific law saying so. There were cases where legislation would meet resistance in the Senate, and the authour would just say "fine, I'll take it directly to the people." It always caused a lot of problems when this happened. Tiberius Gracchus did this, with a radical law that would have seized land from the rich and given it to the urban poor. He was famously murdered, so, you know, it didn't turn out that well for him. Julius Caesar did this once as well, and his Public Assembly turned into an open brawl. The only reason it turned out okay for him was that his angry mob was full of plain-clothed soldiers, and it beat the other angry mob.

[@AnthonyBoylan]

Thanks for the explanation. Tiberius Gracchus was a great reformer. I first learned about him from Dan Carlin's show, Hardcore History. I'm glad you are making these guides! Please keep it up!

[@plamenminchev6563]

+Anthony Boylan check Extra History's videos on the Graccis reforms.

[@ngolokante7805]

@@HistoriaCivilis wow this guy gives so much time you are 1 in million

[@paprus5972]

I can't wait for "The Roman Senate during the Empire" to inevitably release when he gets to the empire period.

[@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046]

Well - During the period of Augustus and Tiberius Consul - Minor Administrative role + Honorifics + Governorships Praetor - Also minor administrative role + governorships Quaestor - Minor financial role in governing provinces (Not much had been changed, with the exception of 2 additional quaestors which were meant to serve as advisors to the emperor Then there's the emperor. Yep, just an ordinary guy, who was simply permanently given the powers of tribune of the plebs, and the powers of censor, and Imperium over roman provinces, and also became the "Princeps Senatus" and his first name would now literally be "Imperator". But he was just an ordinary citizen, heck - you could call him the "First" citizen

[@ДанилаГалечьян]

Thanx, watched your videos several times, they help a lot to prepare to the ancient rome history exam!

[@michaelpisciarino5348]

Senex = “Old Man” = Senator 1:17 Hierarchical Power Structure 1:38 Pedarii = “Walkers” = Backbenchers = Senators who never get a chance to speak 2:38 Princep Senatus = “The First Senator” + Higher Ranking than Ex-Consuls Could turn the entire senate for or against a motion 4:26 The Popular/Public Assembly

[@darthsidious6753]

The princeps senatus was appointed by the Censors and had to be a patrician.

[@TheKadanz]

Rome: making Ok boomer acceptable since before christ

[@qboxer]

As I understand, the chain of events of legislation from proposal to implementation is as it works... as long as the Consul was a Plebeian. If he was a Patrician, I've understood that he would not be able to walk down the steps from the Curia (the Senate House) into the Popular Assembly, as Patricians were not allowed there. Could you comment on this?

[@alexfeinstein3440]

Thank you for this video, really helped when studying :)

[@feynstein1004]

Hello, almost-name-twin. I wasn't aware that mine was a real name 😂

[@dotmashrc]

your pfp is the most cursed image ever.

[@alexfeinstein3440]

@@dotmashrc LOL

[@RMSUkraine]

watching these after finding some of your newer videos thanks for the great work

[@dothrakidani358]

Hahaha! Oh how appropriate ive only just found this channel. Loving it so much. And senate is old men AS IT WAS SET UP TO BE, it's literally its name, whatchagonnado...

[@MM-vs2et]

They probably called Quaestors Pedarii, or Walkers, because the only thing they do significantly, is walking over to someone

[@parthiancapitalist2733]

Martin Anthonyo lol

[@osamasameer3221]

Kindly make the video on why and how did Augustus changed the Roman empire , like the politics side of the thing after all the civil wars.

[@rhomaios7548]

I know they were kind of powerless at the time, but what about during the empire?

[@lennydale92]

Jonathan Guzman I believe in many cases that the emperor served as a Consul with another Co-Consul. (Augustus with Vipsanius Agrippa as example). Though as stated it was more symbolic and there was no dispute over who held the real power.

[@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046]

The individual senators had some power, (Praetors were judjes, Consuls influenced who won, Quaestors to help govern provinces) but the senate as a whole was essentially a council of advisors when it came to legislative stuff

[@sumofl]

this one deserves an update

[@caydenberry2411]

I watched a four minutes ad so you could get money for your hard work. Keep it up!

[@andrinhirschi3829]

you videos have become much better. That cool to see. THis isnt bad but your new stuff is more entertainig

[@anthonyfrias5533]

Rome still influences us to this day from there system of government to there fashion hair included

[@jeannemaletz7158]

Yep your correct 100000000000000000%

[@SuperRichyrich11]

How many members of the Senate were there, and how did they initially become senators?

[@Quintinohthree]

Remember how senatorship is for life? That also means the senate's membership varied. People entered the senate and died.

[@rmk3155]

You'd serve as a military tribune for a time, specifically a tribunus laticlavius. That being the late republic and empire. But the principle still stands just that all the tribunes were equal.

[@mashucha]

There's usually be around 500-900 members

[@Ayush-je7cc]

​@@Quintinohthree you joking right?

[@Quintinohthree]

@@Ayush-je7cc Nope. That's how it used to work.

[@diegoviniciomejiaquesada4754]

Well, the first 60 seconds and I learned something new today

[@mgr33n3]

THANK YOU for providing Chinese subtitles for my students, thank you x100

[@johnbatsch7938]

I miss the guitar backtrack.

[@mickmickymick6927]

In Latin, each letter has a distinct pronounciation which is usually the same in IPA, and that letter is always pronounced like that. So 'pretarii' would've been pronounced as it's written, not /pritariai/ like it might seem to an American english speaker.

[@reshpeck]

Mick Mickymick Since you didn't mention it, I'm guessing "prinkeps" is the correct pronunciation?

[@catalyst772]

@@reshpeck 2 years late but yes, it's Prinkeps. Julii is You-lee, Brutii is Brew-tea (Not July-eye or Brutea-eye)

[@reshpeck]

@@catalyst772 Better late than never

[@oreo1749]

@@catalyst772 huh thats also how you pronounce July in Hebrew

[@vulpes7079]

He isn't speaking Latin

[@WorgenGrrl]

I would like to see the comparison between the Senate during the Republic and during the Empire

[@l.lawliet164]

The term walkers probably mean these senators who have no power would go from yes to no after speeches of other members of the senate. Thus, making them walkers.

[@WolfBetter]

what a weird video for the algorithm to recommend me.

[@mossyroots]

Love all of your videos! Question though: If there were elections each year for all magistrates but each new elected official retained a lifetime membership of the Senate, how did they keep numbers in the Senate down?

[@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046]

Death

[@TheKarui]

Are you ever going to do a remaster of this video :p

[@Gallalad1]

I know it's not realistic but if you could do a short video on the Senate during the empire? Because sometimes I read bits about the senate doing things(electing emperors and all that) in just curious what happened to them after Caesar Augustus

[@LeeRichardson808]

Sweet video. Great content!

[@jackgruber7811]

This video. It good.

[@reshpeck]

Jack Gruber Your comment. It sufficient.

[@orionstark]

What is this song in the background? What is the title of this soothing guitar rift?

[@francescocatalano5855]

Ancient people respected very much elder and consider their accrued experience and better judgement. For such relevant governmental institution during many centuries the minimum age for qualifying senator was 53 years old

[@MalaysianChopsticks]

Francesco Catalano nah, more like limiting the positions to those who survived. Average life expectancy is 35 during this period.

[@yuripantyhose4973]

Could you do one about the EU, the ECB and European Commission? This is the best conveyed medium for political organization I have seen even though i disagree with you politically. Thanks for your work.

[@SuperRichyrich11]

How did one initially become a Senator? Were they voted in, or just appointed?

[@martnoort]

Voted in by the Comitia Tributa to the office of Questor. If you watch the Cursus Honorum you'll find out more.

[@derickgabrillo1579]

Please do a video of the senate under the empire.

[@StoicFC]

I am binge watching this with popcorn and a beer 😊

[@thegoldman8366]

yeah

[@Kouhiko9674]

Love the channel and vids. amazing work

[@Dumb-Comment]

They chose the slang because they literally just walk in and walk out

[@hugo57k91]

"I have a proposal" "It is good: You son of a bitch I'm in

[@alexander9703]

Tbf, parliamentarians in the UK parliament to this day sit on benches, and thats where the modern word backbencher comes from.

[@Cyge240sx]

Rome was different to us senators lasted for life. Yeah and how is that different from today?

[@RexGalilae]

I think they were called Pedarii because their only contribution to the state was to a) Walk in and out of the Senate Hall Or b) To walk to either side when votes were to be cast

[@k.umquat8604]

It's been a long journey.

[@cheydinal5401]

4:15 How crazy that they don't require a 95% majority to end the debate

[@Laura-lv1ke]

This may be a silly question to which i imagine my presumed answer is correct, but could senators participate in voting with the public assembly? I couldn't find anything about it anywhere and wanted to know whether participation in the two were mutually exclusive

[@OCinneide]

I think it was only plebs allowed to vote in the public assembly.

[@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046]

No, that is not true, there were 4 main assemblies, the Plebian assembly was the only one with this rule

[@AnthonyGentile-z2g]

Where do you get the idea that the princeps Senatus could convene the senate? Gellius 14.7 specifically says that only dictators consuls, praetors, tribunes and the Urban prefect couls convene (cogere) the Senate. Nor did Senate's Consulta have the force of law. Only the people in their assemblies could pass a lex. Al in all, a very good summary however.

[@d.d.9472]

The Roman Senate. The best legislature that money could buy.

[@dardo1201]

How were the rankings of the senators decided on the rolls?

[@dylanrodrigues]

According to cursus honorum. They were ranked according to the precedence of their office, their political influence, experience, quality of their blood, etc.

[@greeneggsandhamsamiam6154]

I've heard that the Senate still existed during the empire? what was its role then?

[@matejcerman4494]

+Green Eggs And Ham Sam Iam Yes, it did. Its role depended on the emperor, and how much power he allowed the senate to wield. The senate usually still voted on legislation, though it was often just a formality. Some emperors ruled with full consent of the senate, while some did not and they relied solely on the army.

[@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046]

The senate had no legislative power other than a council of advisors, but the individual senators had some power (Praetors as judges, etc)

[@cheydinal5401]

Mr Princeps Senator, does the former Praetor from the year of Lucius Licinius Murena and Decimus Iunius Silanus even know which Ides we have today?

[@dotmashrc]

0:02 let's go

[@goshujinsama666]

The public assemblies are the comitia centuriata?

[@nicholasboyle3291]

Would the princeps senatus speak before the ex-consuls whom served as consul after them? Also would the consul who didn’t propose the bill speak before the princeps senatus?

[@kylew.4896]

Backbenchers comes from parliament and they sit on benches...pretty sure they don't use those terms in the house or Senate but I dunno

[@jimmyhu4977]

Wait, why didn't Caesar become Princeps Senatus to push through his agenda after his consulship & governorship had expired?

[@MrRemicas]

Because he needed to get Imperium in order to not be dragged in a trial for his many illegal acts, and being princeps wouldn't cover for thar.

[@gimmedatsuccjon5373]

I miss shitty mic historia

[@M_Chen333]

LMAO

[@geoffdignam]

If you're listening, I'd like to help you with music if you want! Keep it up!

[@dismoica7617]

I can help with visual design! Would be a great convergence of talent :)

[@dotmashrc]

3:43 for the algorithm

[@lucasmetro]

What kind of video editor/software do you use if I may ask

[@Edward135i]

The American senate is basically a life long position, unless you royally fuck up.

[@dotmashrc]

0:04 for the algorithm

[@bumblebeeeoptimus]

how did you learn all of this things? did you do some college or something?

[@artman40]

How does this differ from modern China's government?

[@BritishHistoryGuy]

+artman40 The Chinese government is much more complicated. The most important difference is that in Rome there is no distinction between political and military leadership.

[@edwarddundon-smith9059]

These people are elected

[@jorenvanderark3567]

chinas legislature are indirectly elected by thepeople. essentialy it goes like this, tne people elect the members of the local legislature, the local legislature apoints the members of the county legislature and so on till you have reached the national legislature.

[@edwarddundon-smith9059]

+Joren van der ark Oligarchy

[@jorenvanderark3567]

Edward Dundoned smith pretty much.

[@siddharthdhadi1326]

You forgot that the tribune of the plebs could veto the senate.

[@P7777-u7r]

So the Princeps Senatus is comparable to a speaker of the house in a way im getting?

[@dotmashrc]

0:01 for hc

[@armandoeng]

Pedarii makes sense as its only power was when they walk to vote.

[@darcyvvalencia]

I love the Republic... I love democracy.

[@JamieZero7]

To think they had more democracy than we do now.

[@fuckheinschitt239]

then you are crazy

[@ilikemilkandbeer6175]

they went with the name "Pedaria" because the only power they had was to stand on their feet ("pedis" in latin) to show their support, so the name shows that their power did not come from their mouth when they spoke (since they never got to) but in actually standing since their votes still counted!

[@dotmashrc]

2:13 help the video

[@fvriovs5502]

If you see this, I have a question. In another video, you listed these colours as being coded to ex-Quastors, Praetors, etc. Does this mean that say in a Senate of 300, people actually occupying the role of Quastor are not in the Senate, but are appointed after their term? And if they then become Aediles, they're removed and then upon completion reinstated? I'm just slightly confused, because no one seems to ever leave the Senate, yet there are new people joining seemingly every year, and somehow the Senate never exceeded more than 900 Senators. It seems logical for an Aedile to not be in the Senate, but be appointed after he completes. But then you have the issue of what if this man doesn't try to ascend. Few men would've been capable of rising to the top, both because of lack of available seats in the Praetorship and Consulship, as well as the issue of getting elected there in the first place. No matter which way I think about it, it seems to logically follow that the Senate could be endlessly growing, because aside from dying, no one seems to leave, whilst perhaps dozens are joining yearly.

[@manheap12]

If you hold a rank like Questor you are a member of the senate. It’s a lifetime appointment and you never leave b

[@IZn0g0uDatAll]

If the number of people getting in is constant, you can expect in average as many people to die every year as there are newcomers joining.

[@HoryWan]

What happened if the Public Assembly would vote NO, would the bill pe dropt?

[@parthiancapitalist2733]

HoryWan yes, or revolution

[@rxscience9214]

Amazing vid, but how old is old in this? Are we talking 70-80 year old senators or 40-50 maybe 60 year old guys?

[@ilikemilkandbeer6175]

during the period of the roman kings people were lucky to live for more than 35/40 years so I guess old means roughly 35 or older! later, towards Caesar's time the rich would live up to 55/65 years more or less!

[@Hankyman583]

Ryan William Dunlop people often lived longer than 40, the only reason life expectancy was so low was because of high infant mortality

[@ilikemilkandbeer6175]

mnm the life in that period was tough, obviously the richer and more important people lived longer than that, having a healthier lifestyle, but the majority of the Romans in the earlier period didn't. Later on yes, life expectancy was grow!

[@TheTonyMcD]

I do have a question about the senate. You show the senate as having 300 members. That seems reasonable, but how did they all fit into that tiny building? Were most of them usually absent? Or is maybe the building much bigger than it looks in pictures? Or is it maybe significantly scaled down from the original? If the latter is the case, what exactly did the original senate building look like? If the building couldn't actually fit the entire senate, what would they do in the case that too many senators showed up? Would they change the venue, or would they turn away senators from the meeting based on a hierarchy? Last question, you show the senators sitting in a C shaped fashion, is this how they really sat? The pictures of the current building look like it is a simple layout of two rows of seats along the sides of the building and a podium at one end (But I only seem to be able to find one or two pictures of the other end of the building, and they aren't super detailed). Although it is probable that this was a later renovation. Regardless, your videos are awesome! Even your early ones, aside from the audio, are still incredibly insightful and very entertaining.

[@honeybadger4396]

So if the senate voted to pass a bill put the people voted no in a public assembly, would the bill pass? Also had anyone the power to veto something like this?

[@honeybadger4396]

Care to elaborate?

[@vgel]

HoneyBadger If the public assembly voted the bill down, it wouldn't pass. However, this was rare, and if it did happen the Senate could simply put the bill forward again. There were certain people who could veto public assemblies -- the other consul and the tribunes of the plebs, most notably.

[@nodu6414]

ah, old historia civilis videos. niice

[@codekillerz5392]

4:21 4:22 anyone hear that?

[@josephpaul0484]

Yes, good thing you said it. You must have a good hearing, I thought it was just my surroundings. LOL