The Scandal of the Middle Finger Ad / Doug Wilson & Friends

This week on Doug Wilson & Friends gather to discuss the recent SCANDAL. An Ad for New Saint Andrews College featured a line about hoisting the middle finger: "Johnny Cash's favorite finger." Doug Wilson is joined by Ben Merkle, Jared Longshore, and N.D. Wilson.

[@Monkeesblood]

"Anyone who really wants the Truth, ends up at Jesus…" - Johnny Cash :)

[@CanonPress]

too true

[@Sardious]

​@@manager0175I bet they would support project 2025 over agenda 47 if they had to choose. But I have not heard anyone in this video support project 2025. Cross politics is somewhat kind of related to these guys and they have spoken positively a project 2025 maybe once or twice but they don't really seem to support it because what's the point of supporting something no one is going to use especially if it's not really what you want it's just better than some other option

[@RomanZeNine]

@@manager0175 That's a loaded question

[@Brittrootedwings]

I’m a reformed Christian mom and showed this ad to my kids to let them know this is the only college I’d pay to send them to.

[@CanonPress]

10/10 Mom

[@KyleHunter-r2r]

Not all heroes wear capes. Some are just called mom.

[@soluschristus1689]

That's utterly pathetic and sad that your comment to them was on the heels of this ad. Even Cash would repudiate this picture as a symbol of rebellion and not an image to aspire to. Let me ask you something, what do you want your boys to be like when they graduate?

[@CindyOsborne-TDWP]

Men ​@@soluschristus1689

[@LucianaPelota]

​@@soluschristus1689Johnny Cash and the men in this video.

[@kyriosity]

I love that Doug says, "I had nothing to do with this" and then says "we" for the rest of the conversation. The solidarity is 👌.

[@williamnathanael412]

According to him, if a wife sins then the husband is responsible as well. But not vice versa

[@williamnathanael412]

When the wife sins, the husband is responsible. But not vice versa.

[@person6768]

​@@williamnathanael412 Read Genesis

[@kyriosity]

@@WinterSoldier-dy2qc I think that's part of it, but in this particular case it's more comradeship than authority that's being expressed.

[@DavidZechariah]

​@@williamnathanael412"According to Him", lol-) William, GOD'S Holy Wors lays out "Headship" and all that comes with it. Without Headship, of which you are speaking, no one can be Saved. Husband's are CHRIST to the the Wife, and Wives are the Body to Their Master/Head, "Lord", Say The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. So, "according to him" is actually GOD Says, in 'Accordance with HIM' an HIS Holy Word. Lean Not on your own [lack of] understanding. Job was either in sin for offering sacrifices for His Wife and Children, as We Husband's and Father's should be doing daily in Communion with CHRIST ALMIGHTY, or He understood HIS responsibility and functioned therefore as the [King, Prophet, and] Priest of Those He had Headship over

[@gkc333]

'Where are you going?' " I'm going to pick a fight!" William Wallace, Braveheart ....Love you guys!

[@Yesica1993]

One of my favorite moments in one of my favorite movies of all time! I saw it 8X in the theater and probably that many more times on VHS/DVD/streaming. Plot twist: I'm a woman. Some women watch chick flicks when they need a pick me up. I re-watch Braveheart. EDIT: And for the crybabies out there, yes, I skip the love scene and don't need to see the bare behind scenes either. I would take my headphones to the theater to avoid all that. It's called using common sense.

[@scythermantis]

Classic American Puritanical Chauvinist culture; glorify violence while being prudish about sex.

[@Cosmobiblica]

As a reformed baptist woman, I love this ad.

[@CanonPress]

thanks for watching!

[@shellydavis6784]

Same here!

[@brianmiller3287]

Do the critics of the "Moscow Mood" really think they will win battles by clutching their pearls next to the fainting couch???

[@chrismaldonado8999]

Their (critics) effeminate bent scorns the celebration of the masculine.

[@I9s7lam5is-S3tu1pid]

They’d need to loosen their extremely tight waist trimming corsets first before fainting

[@CanonPress]

an interesting tactic!

[@KyleHunter-r2r]

I would say yes, but they don’t actually wanna win battles. They wanna be nice and not offend anyone.

[@NicholasRyan0723]

It is better to clutch pearls than the same weapons as the enemy. . .

[@Gabriel_Hudelson]

I have been a long time fan of @douglaswils and @canonpress. I am a subscriber to Canon+. I appreciate so much of what these guys do. But this is just silly. I am all for the serrated edge. There are times to speak prophetically. The prophets did speak with graphic poetic power to expose and condemn sin. But no, the burden of proof is not on those of us who are bothered by this. The burden of proof is on Moscow to show why a powerful and graphic and poetic rebuke of sin is equivalent to making obscene hand gestures. Where does this end? If we’re going to really get prophetic, do we need to start dropping F-bombs on the idols of our day? As another commenter asked, which of our dear Moscow brethren will be the first to imitate the naked profits? Is this really the conclusion of the arguments you’ve been making - that there is effectively no standard for what is honorable conduct? What kind of behavior is this going to encouraging young men? I’m not arguing for “feminine sensibilities.” But if we think that any kind of basic decency in speech is a fruit of “feminine sensibilities“ then our definition of masculinity is way off. I am all for encouraging men to be warriors. So let’s encourage them to lift swords, not to wave fingers. Stuff like this does so much undermining of so much good ministry that has come out of Moscow. This just validated criticisms of the Moscow Mood - criticisms that I don’t agree with - with this very irresponsible two seconds. I say this in love. I want to see these guys succeed. But stuff like this is just a major facepalm, and it does not square with Biblical standards of communication. “Let no unwholesome word proceed out of your mouth…” “from the same mouth comes forth blessing and cursing…” “so that those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about you…” (pardon the paraphrasing) One last thing. I know these guys don’t generally apologize for stuff, and that’s good. There’s enough apologizing going around when the woke mob comes a-calling. But young men do need to see courageous repentance modeled as well. This is a good opportunity. Watching Moscow try to defend the use of obscene vulgarity is… honestly kind of disheartening.

[@Faithful247]

TL:DR but I’m sure you brought up some good points

[@chrismaldonado8999]

You’re right, we can’t ever break the 11th commandment no matter what.

[@ahabion]

"I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"

[@IronFire116]

Very well said.

[@I9s7lam5is-S3tu1pid]

Did “You snakes! You brood of vipers! …” had any real impact on the Pharisees? Was that phrase why they got upset enough to crucify Him?

[@andrewbrowne5557]

“You raised me, and you introduced me to Johnny Cash”…Well done Doug!

[@CanonPress]

10/10

[@Daniel-vp8os]

As a catholic i support and salute your message! May God bless you!

[@CanonPress]

Thanks, Daniel!

[@cosmictreason2242]

Come home Daniel. Apostolic succession goes from the medieval church through the reformers to the contemporary reformed churches

[@Daniel-vp8os]

@@cosmictreason2242 i am home brother, the catholic church is the Church of Christ. I respect my protestant brothers and sisters in Christ. But i know that the catholic faith is Apostolic , biblical and evangelical. May Christ bless you

[@Daniel-vp8os]

@@cosmictreason2242 its the eucharist brother! That convinced me..

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@Daniel-vp8os nope. None of that. Eph2: you are saved by grace through faith Trent: if anyone says faith alone is sufficient for salvation, he's anathema. Pick one.

[@f4g1980]

I’m a Grad student at Liberty University online, and would love to just be part of this somehow in ministry, should God providence ordination for me in His will.

[@TheReader6]

No guys, you have it wrong. The critics are just afraid they may have to fight if you are right. They would rather be killed than fight. These type of people fear the fight.

[@InklingsFemina-w4m]

EXACTLY!!!

[@chrismaldonado8999]

Spicy

[@Yela927]

What’s your biblical support for something such as this?

[@hardboard82]

@@Yela927The biblical support for his present observation might be right next to the biblical support for your present question. What exactly are you asking here?

[@Yela927]

@@hardboard82 why are we fighting? What are we fighting? Being courageous is one thing, being eager to fight is another. Doesn’t the Bible have something to say about pursuing peace with all men?

[@emilyshields4830]

I listen to Canon + almost every day, I wear pearls almost every day. The middle finger visual was crude and uncouth. I'm tired of being accused of clutching my pearls. Don't put those who disagree with these longwinded defenses in a box.

[@DaDitka]

And don't put us who agree with this ad in a box, either. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite.

[@Jcikokalol]

Yea, you're a female...at least that males some sense...because you don't comprehend the attitude of men. But you're still clutching your pearls.

[@trfatman]

Jude 1:9 "But Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses,..." What did the archangel of God do when disputing with Satan himself? Did he give the devil the middle finger? No. He said, "The Lord rebuke you!" I think we can all agree that the symbolic nature of the middle finger is not spiritual, but fleshly. So with what are we supposed to fight evil? In the words of the great hymn, "the arm of flesh will fail you." Using rude gestures in the face of evil is fighting the battle in the arm of the flesh. Ephesians 6 tells us that our resistance against evil is done with the armor of God, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. We are not called to engage the enemy with crude speech and rude gestures. If your school is seeking students like that, you are seeking those who sow to the flesh, and of the flesh you will reap corruption (Galatians 6:8). How are we to war against evil? 2 Corinthians 10:3-4 "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)" According to the Apostle Paul, the middle finger and F bombs were not given to Christians to use in spiritual warfare. This fleshly, carnal attitude you are putting forth is sinful, and brings a reproach on the name of Jesus Christ. I pray you will repent of this carnality, and walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh.

[@CanonPress]

your spiritual middle finger is not carnal, however

[@trfatman]

@@CanonPress somehow I missed that in the list of spiritual armor in Ephesians 6. What's the Greek word for "spiritual middle finger"?

[@PanhandleFrank]

@@CanonPress But IS there such a thing as a spiritual "feck you"? (I ask as someone frustrated with my inability / unwillingness to curb my own tongue ... )

[@trfatman]

@@CanonPress just so we are clear, are you taking my rebuke as giving you all the "spiritual middle finger"? My rebuke was based upon the clear teaching of Scripture, and even quoted Scripture. First, show me how my use of those passages was not "rightly dividing the Word of Truth", and secondly, explain how my usage of Scripture to rebuke you is equal to using a filthy gesture. You are debasing the Holy Word of God if you make that comparison. You are teetering on the edge of blasphemy, and I humbly pray you cease and desist, and immediately repent. Don't trifle with the Holy Word of God.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@PanhandleFrank100%. The information content of FU is contained in words like "depart from me" And "lord destroy my enemies" and "woe to you"

[@laurengrosz]

This ad had me cheering and skipping while walking my dogs in Dallas. This was probably a strange sight given that I’m almost 60, but I couldn’t help myself! I really hope I have grandchildren to send to NSA.

[@nanceactual1790]

This is amazing 😆

[@eugeniemartin6630]

That was a wonderful conversation and really, very helpful. I loved the ad before I heard your discussion and even sent it to my grandson, but now I love it even more!

[@masterdaveedwards]

I’ve always liked the edginess of manly men, they are a rare breed in Christian circles…you have done a great job with Nathan…he’s a fighter I love the intensity, it’s building to something special. Blessings and Pax Vobiscum

[@LanceJRoberts]

Super sad to equate manliness with cussing.

[@daltonbrasier5491]

​@LanceJRoberts he literally didn't.

[@B.A.D4Life]

As a Baptist, I like it.

[@prattle4092]

Heck yes! I’m not a man, and I’m not reformed but I loved that ad. I love what you guys are doing and the Church and our culture needs courageous, masculine, educated, and virtuous men now more than ever.

[@prattle4092]

@@manager0175 I don’t have to agree with every position they hold to agree with what is being said here. Furthermore, if he does hold to that, I’m going to assume there is a reasoned and well thought out argument that I’m willing to consider, rather than jumping to conclusions based on a straw man argument from a stranger in the comments section. And based on the way many of the women in this country are currently voting, that’s not a bad proposal!

[@scythermantis]

lol you can tell that from just looking at these guys, they don't hide it very well

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@manager0175 as every rational man and woman does these days. I've heard this viewpoint from more unbelievers than believers to date. It's common sense

[@zach.shepard]

The other side is not being hypocritical for circulating the image. Doug should know that this is a disingenuous argument. Y’all are using the image with approval, they are using it in condemnation. That is like saying it is hypocritical to post the infamous Olympics last supper photo with condemnation. Just because I am posting a photo, doesn’t mean I am approving it, especially if the purpose of my post is to condemn it.

[@xDonJuanx]

But if it's so offensive, why circulate it?

[@lonniecraig5186]

Because they are morally superior. Just ask them. Lol

[@mileshall9235]

My dad fought in WW2, 1 silver star, 1 bronze star. Got up to read the Bible every morning at 5. Worked construction 5 days a week till the age of 63 when he was diagnosed with cancer. About the strongest 60-year old you will ever meet. Was a prolific evangelizer - traveled to the free speech events at Berkley to preach repentance and belief in the gospel. Was mocked on that side, but also kicked out of our church by findamentalist leadership for inviting and discipling "hippes." Didn't stop him. Served the Lord his whole life. He would have thought the bird in the advert was silly. Probably one of the most rough and tumble, adventure prone men I ever met. So no, you're not just weeding out the submissive types when you post that.

[@mileshall9235]

PS. The add didn't particularly bother me.

[@scythermantis]

Yeah, also, these guys acting like they are doing anything really full or revolutionary is hilarious *Y a w n... You aren't that cool lol Just a bunch of Gen X white dudes looking for something to be angry about

[@storiesaresoulfood4643]

Libs, please don't read the story we are in. 😴 Everyone else, welcome aboard. 🏴‍☠

[@ginasenaijc]

It really concerns me that you think that people who isn’t agree with this kind of “advertising “ are not brave enough or good enough to be in the “battle “ with you. Canon Press , make sure you aren’t letting progressiveness into your product. This is actually very concerning….

[@CanonPress]

we will be disciplining the progressives with canoe paddles if they make it in

[@davmatheophilus159]

@@CanonPress I second her concern. It's like calling those who disagree with you "a basket of deplorables." In the discussion detractors were all assessed as cowards and wimps, that's a shallow, inaccurate assertion. Don't set yourselves above those who have principled objections to unwholesome language and/or behavior. What would you say to Lot who was vexed in his spirit at the conduct of the wicked? Can't Christians want to see those who profess faith in Christ to conduct themselves in a manner that does not bring reproach on Christ?

[@johnadams3673]

@@davmatheophilus159but does this ad really bring “reproach upon Christ” as you say, or just in your mind and your version of Christ that is in your mind?

[@davmatheophilus159]

@@johnadams3673 The former, of course.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@davmatheophilus159the conduct of the wicked Lot was vexed by included gang lape, corruption of the youth, and dag quean story hour. Not hand gestures saying "i disregard your faux piety"

[@billybob-wx2re]

when i first saw the ad, i told my wife, "i'm not sure i would've done it, but you can tell they spent a LOT of time on it" they didn't just publish that willy nilly

[@CanonPress]

thanks Billy Bob!

[@shellydavis6784]

My Christian dad was the biggest Johnny Cash fan. He never felt at home in the feminine Evangelical church of our day, but he sure felt at home in a conflict and around manly men. I always felt he had a dual personality, but truly it was his God given masculinity in a feminine culture that was the duality.

[@CanonPress]

yes -- tale as old as time

[@Onkuty]

Yea, I would bet that nowadays, Paul's confrontation of Peter would be considered as divisive, unloving and harsh by these evangejllies.

[@andrewbrowne5557]

My pastor and I were discussing to sad state of affairs within much of the CCM genre, especially effeminate men…He then stated “If a man hasn’t been in at least one fight, he probably has no business in the pulpit.”

[@trfatman]

I distinctly remember the Apostle Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, listing one of the qualifications of an elder is "not a brawler." Never having engaged in fisticuffs does not mean one is effeminate.

[@unexpectedTrajectory]

It seems to put an unnecessary construction on what he said to conclude he thinks pastors should be "brawlers." I hope you think there are things with fighting for, in both senses.

[@PanhandleFrank]

@@trfatman "one of the qualifications of an elder is 'not a brawler.'" One can EASILY "be in a fight" and not be a "brawler." Tommy, the (eventual) hero of the Kenny Rogers song, "Coward of the County," was most certainly "not a brawler."

[@trfatman]

@@unexpectedTrajectory "unnecessary construction"? The comment was made under a video that was a round table discussion by pastors and teachers defending the use of a rude gesture in an ad. Am I that far off base to make the construction that the comment referred at least in part to physical fighting? No, I am not a pacifist. I do believe one can fight in self defense or in defense of the innocent. And of course, our fights can be other than physical. But let's take the Apostle Paul for example. How many times do you think he got into a fistfight with the Pharisees or the Judaizers? Pretty sure the answer is zero. Paul was bold and even used the serrated edge in his speech against them, but physical violence was not a weapon of spiritual warfare for Paul.

[@silaschambers7413]

@andrewbrowne5557 I had trouble finding that requirement in 1 Timothy 3 or Titus 1. Could you direct me to the text?

[@jason.martin]

This is such a great discussion, very insightful!

[@CanonPress]

Thanks for watching!

[@stevencapriglione]

I wish I had this kind of place when I was younger. Instead of training as a teen I was dismissed as a disrupter. BUT I am glad that my son and daughter have this available to them.

[@RachelRamey]

I think you're missing something here. This ad did NOT just filter out the wishy-washy, "soft" guys. This ad actually filtered out a large segment of *exactly that kind of man* -- the men we want in leadership who will say hard things. Equating *profanity* with the Shackleton ad is a disappointing lack of discernment, guys. The Shackleton ad is exactly what I thought of when thinking about this topic -- it's a GOOD thing, and I fully agree that's exactly what you should want to do. But flippant treatment of sex and idolatry and advocacy of the kinds of men who make sexually profane gestures is *not* equivalent to Shackleton's "for guts and glory" kind of ad. However good the intent, y'all missed the boat on this one, and you're doing an excellent job of painting yourselves now as the kind of men who are uncorrectable and unrepentant, believing you never make mistakes. This time it's not just the DeYoung crowd that's telling you there's a problem here. You have a large contingent of those who have been *in your corner* defending the serrated edge, who are telling you that this one is a step too far, and if you're wise, you'll give that fact weight. These are your *supporters* who are saying, "nope, not this time."

[@CanonPress]

So many paragraphs, so little engagement with the video!

[@mattstutzman1662]

@@CanonPressIn all your words and video, it is you who refuse to engage this central point. She is spot on.

[@Yesica1993]

@@CanonPress I do think there's a legitimate concern that can be addressed. As I said in my original comment, I don't agree 100% with this tactic. I do agree that the response from the naysayers has been ridiculous.

[@RachelRamey]

That's because nearly the entire video is essentially *side-stepping* the concerns.

[@systemrevolt7309]

Doug did a great job articulating cash and the establishment. The sentiment of the modern establishment or systems we are fighting fits perfectly.

[@RomanZeNine]

What I love about Canon Press, is how often youtube unsubcribes me, because it gives me another chance to subscribe.

[@Yesica1993]

LOL!

[@michellegabriel2990]

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." Ephesians 4:29 Sticking up your middle finger, which means "F---k," is a sexual gesture, & it is never ok for Christians to sin & this is sin. Don't go down to the world's level.

[@CanonPress]

interesting!

[@PanhandleFrank]

"Sticking up your middle finger, which means "F---k," is a sexual gesture" I think it's even worse than that. It means "fv¢k you," which, when uttered against an opponent, is essentially a threat of r@pe.

[@Yesica1993]

@@PanhandleFrank Oh, for goodness' sake!

[@PanhandleFrank]

@@Yesica1993 Well? F___ y__ seems to show so much contempt for the other that you would verbally threaten to sexually attack them? DO you disagree? (And believe me, a week hardly goes by that I don't eff-bomb our enemies, in the privacy of my own home.)

[@Jcikokalol]

But you felt comfortable to say spell it. Interesting

[@coalminersdaughter]

In relation to the ad…it just screams men looking for a fight, rather than the meekness we are called to have-strength under control. Surely there was a better way to deliver this. This coming from someone raised by tough manly Christian military veteran coalminers who were pastors. Even they would raise eyebrows at this.

[@coalminersdaughter]

Side note: this was all so confusing because when I saw screenshot of ad, it was labeled as coming from Canon Press so I thought you were recruiting. Now in this video I hear you talk of acronym “NSA”. I had no idea what you were referring to. New people coming in need context as to the Canon NSA connection.

[@calebmartinez8073]

Love you guys, but if you had cured cancer, the response would have been completely different. They're not upset about a successful advertisement. It is disapproval of unholy communication used for drawing attention to a Christ-centered ministry. 30:47

[@martiruth143]

@@calebmartinez8073 True that

[@betty8173]

Big pharma offed several holistic docs that had cancer cures, they should be careful of what they speak!!

[@CanonPress]

so says caleb martinez 8073!

[@SirThighmaster]

@CanonPress I love Doug Wilson and much of what you guys do. I have learned a great deal from the Moscow Mood. However, why is it that your consistent response to those who have concerns with the strategies commended in this video simply mockery? Why is there not even handed engagement with brothers in Christ who have a different view? Whatever the right or wrongness of the original ad, this constant condescension towards those who respectfully disagree seems entirely unjustified.

[@cosmictreason2242]

"Eat your shit and drink your piss" - the unholy God's book of Isaiah i guess 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@jammystarfish]

Why did I have to search for this on KZbin to find it when I'm a Canon Plus subscriber and it can't be found on the app?

[@CindyOsborne-TDWP]

Good question. Happens a lot

[@JustinHonaker]

Thank you for this discussion.

[@caitlynmartin1906]

This ad reminded me of the part in "The Patriot" when they go to the tavern to recruit for the militia. Benjamins son Gabriel says those men were not thr type of men they needed...meanwhile Benjamin, an experienced soldier, says, "Those are exactly the men we need."

[@CanonPress]

You are absolutely right.

[@Yesica1993]

I STILL have not seen this movie. Not on purpose!

[@jdmustard2557]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2HQhGWtrdCpobssi=bffN56-cy-wMi-NQ

[@caitlynmartin1906]

@Yesica1993 it's been my fav since I was 9. I prayed for a man like mel Gibson's character since I eas a little girl. I definitely got my prayers answered. Hilariously, my last name is now Martin. God is the greatest author ❤️

[@Yesica1993]

@@caitlynmartin1906 Excellent! I actually bought the DVD a while back and have to get to it. Hopefully soon, when the weather gets bad and we're stuck inside!

[@TurtleTrackin]

When Paul said "Let them be anathema," he was saying "let them be damned." Essentially, he was saying the purveyors of a false gospel could "go to Hell," which used to be a pretty hard curse to throw at someone. Only today, no one is particularly offended by that. Unfortunately, the harshest curse anyone recognizes is an obscenity that, strictly speaking, doesn't make much sense.

[@Richard-es6nb]

So, I’ve finally seen it... the video with that eon-like image that has spawned all the clamoring and countless laments within the Christian community. My initial reaction was, this-THIS-is what has caused all the uproar? “Methinks thou doth protest too much.” Two other quotes also come to mind. The first is by the diminutive but powerful Amy Carmichael. (Her quote will undoubtedly make some soy-boys feel emasculated… good.) The second is by Puritan, Richard Alleine. Here they are combined: “Settle this in your mind so that you will not have to settle it again: there is no promise of ease for any soldier on any field of war … The true Christian is a soldier as soon as he is a saint; and a conqueror as soon as he is a soldier.” Of course, there are other quotes from notable sources I could reference: “The LORD is a man of war; The LORD is His name.” (Exodus 15:3) “Lift up your heads, O you gates! And be lifted up, you everlasting doors! And the King of glory shall come in. Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, The LORD mighty in battle.” (Psalm 24:7-8) While more quotes could be cited, I’d like to get back to the video and all the brouhaha. Who are these scrappy Moscow dudes that, according to some, are always looking to get into a fray? Honestly, I don’t know much about them but they seem to be content in knowing their role: pilgrims, ambassadors, and soldiers ready to-nay, looking to!-“bring it” to the enemy. I’ve noticed that some evangelical leaders are actually willing to sit down and talk with them about common ground as well as disagreements. (Since these are public posts I feel comfortable mentioning their names: men such as Voddie Baucham and James White.) Others, for some reason, feel an obligation to brandish their perspectives, rebukes, barbs, etc. from a distance. (Incidentally, the former group I mention typically has favorable opinions of these Moscow malefactors… go figure? I wonder if the latter intentionally stay away in order to ensure that their beyond-benevolent opinions, as well as their ability to hurl grenades from a distance, remain unchanged. You know, “in all things moderation.”) For many, these icky Moscow folk are simply beyond the pale. There is no time for the old adage: In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Rather, you know, the times they are a changin’ and we have to embrace the 21st century… To be aggressive is to be excessive. To be confront-ery is to be effrontery. To be utterly amiable, even at the expense of truth, is what it means to be brotherly charitable. To depart from convention will land you in detention. (I know… confront-ery is not a word and these are not pithy.) Dear Christian brethren… let us unite and see the clear and present danger out there! They are applauding the murdering of image-bearers right up to the moment of delivery. They are calling you unfit to be a parent if you think your 10-year-old shouldn’t be able to decide what sex they are. They told you that liquor stores were essential but church attendance was not. You know I could go on, right? The childhood sex trade industry. The persecution of Christians. Brethren, I implore you… take a good look at that entire video. If the gnat disgusts you, fine… give it the attention that a gnat deserves… spit it out and move on. If you can’t do this I humbly ask that you get out of the way. For the rest of us… LET’S GOOOOOOO!

[@scythermantis]

Do you know that the very WORD 'malefactor' was first popularly used by Saint Bernard of Clairvaux in order to justify the killing of darker-skinned peoples in the crusades by European Christians? He said that they were 'malefactors' and subhumans and therefore killing them was not homicide but 'malecide'... The more you know!

[@UbWanKinoby66]

Couldn’t agree more! Appreciate you guys! Keep up the fight!

[@CanonPress]

Thanks for watching!

[@TypicalTGreen]

This is the best "Sorry, not sorry." 👍 👍 It's also great how Uncle's like, "Well, it wasn't at the top of my list..."

[@MichaelClarke1646]

'people just see that and assume it's offense' was my favorite part

[@screamAprayer12]

Imagine. A believing wife is married to an unbelieving husband. The unbeleiving husband believes stupid things and stubbornly holds onto idols (as to be expected.) Now the believing wife wants to honor God according to 1 Peter 3:2 so she's quiet and pure and respectful in her conduct to her unbelieving husband and she includes in that definition flipping him the bird anytime he sins. The husband offended, feeling disrespected and unloved asks, "why are you flipping me the middle finger? I thought you were a Christian?" She responds with "I'm showing you Christian love by disrespecting your sin and flipping you off." I do not think that this is by any means the kind of conduct that any writer of the Bible had in mind when dealing with the world. The middle finger cannot be redeemed. It is calling evil good. I love Doug and subcribe to Canon+, I've not been the biggest fan of his language but I do see its utility. When we start using and defending the tactics of world I just dont know where we stop. Should I flip off pride parades when I drive by? What about abortion clinics? How about universities? All because im disrespecting their sin? Not a single person I flip off is going to understand that. A qualification for an elder is "a good reputation with outsiders." This behaviour is not conducive.

[@johnadams3673]

I think the point of the ad and the use of the middle truly iconic middle finger photo of Johnny Cash was to use it symbolically. They even joked about how it would be part of the curriculum to teach how to do that. Maybe the symbolism and the joke part got past you. Now if Doug or the faculty or the school were actually modeling flipping off as a thing to do then you might have a point. But that was not the what was done or endorsed.

[@screamAprayer12]

@@johnadams3673 Do you not think that the phrase "lead by example" has any weight? Even if it was tongue in cheek. We can now look like the world as long as we're doing it tongue in cheek. It just is a thin veneer.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@screamAprayer12get started on TRT

[@LanceJRoberts]

@@cosmictreason2242 So you define manhood by someone using curse words? That is the sad state of Christianity today.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Bothered by fingers but all too eager to violate the 9th Commandment

[@martiruth143]

It’s not like Johnny Cash repented of that behavior…. And it’s not like scripture already laid out the qualities of godly men to build His kingdom, and it didn’t include this nonsense… Could you look at what others are objecting to honestly and actually address it?

[@brianholland5447]

Can you look at what Elijah did at Mt. Carmel? Or John the Baptist? Or how about St. Boniface? Or Jesus entire ministry of mocking and ridicule of the pharisees. I think this stuff is so foreign to us because we have so little zeal for God's Kingdom.

[@KennethSee]

I wish I knew about NSA when I was 17. Granted, I wasn’t a Christian and was saved at a big Eva school. Even still, I’m sad that it took this long for me to arrive where I am.

[@Mark1959Holladay]

Jared, dear brother well put. Lauren and I are very deep in the mountains of TN/NC working a 4 acre farm at 65 my backhoe and front end loader is my wheel barrow and assortment of shovels and picks. We love it, the military in the 70's and 25+ years of hanging drywall makes this a cake walk. We both miss and love you. Blessings from the both of us.

[@Tish-g4o]

I want to not have a problem with this. But I’m not convinced this is necessary. What has been appealing about the Moscow Mood might now be giving me pause.

[@Sardious]

Yeah sometimes you do things because it seemed fun more than because it was needed. Sure it's not a big deal but we don't want to become crass just for fun either.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@Sardiousif you were well known for your victories against the enemies of God, i would care

[@2whisperloudly]

America needs Doug Wilson, Russ Hunter, and thousands of unknown men raising millions of future men to use all their fingers, all their brain cells, and all of their swagger to declare that Chris is Lord. When it comes to fingers, do not despise small beginnings.

[@CanonPress]

russ hunter is punching the air rn being associated with DW

[@patrickc3419]

Russ Hunter yes.

[@patrickc3419]

America absolutely does not need Doug Wilson. Certainly, it needs Paul Washer, John MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Voddie Baucham, Justin Peters, James Coates, Conrad Mbewe, Virgil Walker, Jeff Durbin, Nate Pickowicz, Joel Beeke, Emilio Ramos, Darrell Harrison, Tim Stephens, etc.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@patrickc3419 most people who love those men would include Doug Wilson in the list. Weirdo

[@patrickc3419]

@@cosmictreason2242 Weirdo…I don’t follow what you mean. 🤔 Those men are doctrinally sound, biblically bold theologians and exegetors of God’s Word. Doug Wilson is a profane, attention-seeking, pot-stirring, race baiter; in the likes of a Joel Webbon or a Stephen Wolfe. Be a Berean, sir.

[@davmatheophilus159]

Men don't have to disregard the principles contained in 1st Corinthians 8 and Ephesians 4:2 to be formidable, God fearing men. Something seems off. I wish you guys didn't publish stuff you have to go on to justify 'cause rank and file believers think it's unwholesome. When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent. Proverbs 10:19

[@Sardious]

They wouldn't justify it if people didn't freak out about it. Let's be real the people freaking out defend effeminate men and homosexuality regularly. Often refusing to even call it wrong. But being willing to have a bad attitude towards idols is far too problematic? That said Ben in this video said there may be guys who take things too far but he feels NSA can teach them responsibility easier than they can teach them to want to go against idolatry. On the flip side we don't want to be crass just because it's funny to where our speech just becomes vulgar. It's like how we definitely don't want to be drunkards but that doesn't mean we should ban all alcohol

[@davmatheophilus159]

@@Sardious That is a straw-man, and a shallow assessment of exactly who is objecting, and why. I see the meme as unseemly and antithetical to the spirit of the law and gospel, simultaneously understanding the necessity of preaching law and gospel to unbelievers, while pointing born again men and women to to Matthew 28:18 to embolden their missionary spirit. The Reformed camp’s claim to fame is their embrace of and application of the WHOLE COUNCIL OF GOD- in life and doctrine! Using Johnny Cash’s crass utterances to appeal to young men, as opposed to Jesus, His Prophets and Apostles, is ignoring the fact only the Living Word of God accompanied by the Spirit can “divide soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart,” converts and sanctifies sinners. I pray CP would reassess their having dug in on this one. There is an appearance smugness in the runaway verbosity with insufficient weight given to clear passages like 1 Corinthians 8 and Ephesians 4:29. Also, I wonder whether the culture has not bled into the church? We witnessed massive arenas erupting in chants expressing rejection of the current ungodly regime, which in some perverse way has diminished the anxiety of Christians, letting them know they had allies, but wouldn’t we have preferred to see all those people erupting into A Mighty Fortress Is Our God? We should stick to public Psalm singing.

[@shellydavis6784]

Agreed, the feminist culture has bled into the church. And the pearl clutching is an everyday occurrence of which many Christian men have succumb to and most notably by their social media posts and lack of presence in the physical public square.

[@michaelwolfe8888]

I am very grateful for the work being done by you all in Moscow. Thank you! The Lord keep you going strong in His grace. One correction, especially for those focused on good use of reason and language - - Acton's cutesy dictum is wrong. Power does not corrupt, and absolute power - that which only the Lord posseses - certainly has not corrupted absolutely. Corrupt people can exercise their corruption more as they have more power, but the corruption (sin) preceded the power. It was not a product of the power.

[@samoberholz9800]

@michaelwolfe8888, your correction is on point; if I might fine tune it, though. Power reveals what is already in a person’s heart. “Power corrupts” because an evil heart is handed a sledgehammer without boundaries of what to do with it. “Absolute power corrupts absolutely” because an infinite amount of power infinitely zooms in upon any minute trace of sin in our lives. Therefore, this is the joy overflowing from God’s gift of salvation: He cleanses us from all unrighteousness. Christians, willingly and joyfully bending the knee to the Lord of Lords, can only handle power uprightly so long as we honor our place beneath His authority. Where sin reveals its ugly head in the Christian’s life or heart, God adjusts us back into a healthy shape.

[@sambassett8903]

This didn’t blow up as a video ad, it blew up as a screenshot of said video ad. Without the given context, it just comes off as being an F-you with some other words beneath. Very different feel in the video than scrolling through a feed and getting flipped off. The latter leaves you wondering why on earth you would fight sodomy with sodomy.

[@matthewdyer2926]

You’re one of the scattered pigeons they spoke of.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Those pearls don't make you a pretty lady, Sam

[@brianmiller3287]

Outstanding!!!

[@mattstutzman1662]

I have been reading Doug and Canon stuff since C/A on dead tree, back in the 90s. I have read “A Serrated Edge,” and I agree there is a place for mockery and satire. I was on your side for the “Moscow Mood” discussion, mostly--I at least knew that your critics badly missed the mark. But I think this is a swing and a miss. Both the middle finger part of the ad, and this conversation attempting to justify it. Several thoughts: 1) Flipping the bird at someone is usually a counterfeit for both arguments and combat. It’s juvenile. It’s lame. It’s impotent. It is the inevitable accompaniment to the incoherent, screeching, triggered rage that emanates from our opponents--not something we want to emulate. “No warrior scolds. Courteous words or else hard knocks are his only language.” 2) How is this not gratuitous or merely transgressive? What would have been lost from the ad without this part? It’s worth noting that Shackleton’s ad and the Marine Corps ad didn’t need profanity in order to function effectively as a filter. Why does yours? More to the point, what kind of person would be unpersuaded by the rest of the ad, yet deeply drawn by the middle finger part? Is that the guy you really want to reach? 3) I think it is wrong to suggest that the possible objections to this ad are limited to skirt clutching and the scoreboard. I agree with the use of a serrated edge, and I also believe this ad is an error, regardless of the score. 4) Rather than just citing Biblical examples of behavior, you need to demonstrate that the actions of Jehu et al, are approved by the text, and ought to be imitated. It’s correct to model the styles of the prophets, who were clearly speaking God’s words, but just because an act is recorded doesn’t mean it’s a model for us. Maybe you can demonstrate that, but you can’t just assume it. 5) I can’t believe you’re making me take the hypothetical side of TGC. There is a clearly discernible difference between portraying crude behavior and commending crude behavior. I’m not defending TGC or the movies they recommend, and I’m not saying there is never a place for commending or engaging in something considered crude or offensive; I’m saying logically there is a clear distinction between commending a movie that portrays crudity, and saying we want people to engage in crude behavior. I have been very appreciative of Doug and Canon over the years, and remain grateful for Doug’s years of thought on Mere Christendom and other things that he was thinking about before very many were. I am grateful that he says so much that needs to be said, but many are afraid to say. I am grateful that he articulates what so many Christians feel in their gut, but might lack the ability to put their finger on. But I really don’t think this ad hits the mark, and I think the arguments used in its defense miss by even further.

[@mattstutzman1662]

P.S. Also grateful for the introduction to Wodehouse in C/A.

[@Mando-d4k]

I always ask, “would John Piper approve?” If I surmise the answer would be in the negative, then sign me on, brothers.

[@ApollosHagman_17]

Piper is a man of God. I don't know what happened to him in the last 15 years...

[@patrickc3419]

@@ApollosHagman_17 He’s an imperfect, fallible man like the rest of us. His missteps with how he worded his commentary on the 2020 Presidential election candidates, and his fellowship with Rick Warren were bad, no doubt. Having said that, I’d take Piper any day of the week and twice on Sunday over Wilson.

[@ApollosHagman_17]

​@@patrickc3419 I disagree. He stayed in the Gospel Coalition-and even endorsed and worked with Tim Keller and Russel Moore. Any Pastor who tries to preach social justice warfare, race-baiting, and preaches guilt for things that are not sins (being financially successful, being white) should not be listened to.

[@patrickc3419]

@@ApollosHagman_17 Yes, race baiting, as the wicked, ungodly Gospel Coalition does (particularly now dead Tim Keller, and racist Thabiti Anyabwile) is unbiblical and sinful. Doug Wilson is guilty of race baiting as well, but the reverse (i.e. praising Confederate figures, including Robert Dabney, saying that the Civil War is responsible for racial problems today, etc.)

[@patrickc3419]

@@ApollosHagman_17 Oh I completely agree re. race-baiting. Tim Keller, the racist Thabiti Anyabwile, and the Gospel Coalition are all garbage. Doug Wilson has engaged in race baiting, as well.

[@billbadson7598]

I think that many cannot distinguish between “Christ’s church” and “institutions loyal to Christ’s church.” We do want to save as many souls as possible and bring as many people into God’s covenant as possible, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that every one of those souls should receive the same training or follow the same vocation. Soldiers should be recruited from among those willing to fight, or willing to learn to fight. Those unable or unwilling to be in that role have countless other vocations they can engage in and be of service to God.

[@I9s7lam5is-S3tu1pid]

Everyone wants to be the expressive fingers but not many want to be the muscular forearm that gets the fingers to hold the sword

[@Onkuty]

The true scandal is that such iconic picture used just to make a point is so controversial in an evangelical enviroment. Your nation is judged, the world is on the bring of wars and tribulations and evanjellies are offended on behalf of a picture. That speaks a thousand words. I wonder how would these speech purists react to the "harsh" words of Samuel, Elijah, Isaiah, Hosea, Ezechiel or Jeff Durbin...

[@Yesica1993]

Yes, exactly this!

[@sarahweber9510]

Not true

[@Yesica1993]

@@sarahweber9510 What's not true? What are you talking about?

[@Yesica1993]

* reads title * Ha! As soon as I saw the ad, I knew people would have a stroke over that tiny little portion. (Will have to watch later, have to do work stuff.)

[@sammyt4549]

LOL, you couldn't have been more correct!

[@Yesica1993]

@@sammyt4549 Ha! I'll be watching this video later. I'll be honest, I didn't love that part of the original ad. (Though I love Johnny Cash!) But as soon as I saw it, I knew people would hyper-focus on that, and miss the entire (fantastic) rest of the ad. The point would go WHOOSH!, right over their heads. I just knew it! Why? Not because I'm oh-so smrt. Just because I know that's how people are. If I was a betting woman I'd have a bunch of $ right now. People are so tediously predictable. The phrase, "strain at a gnat, swallow a camel", comes to mind.

[@I9s7lam5is-S3tu1pid]

@@Yesica1993it’s called looking gently at the speck. If that’s God as many think so, we’d all be burning in hellfire 🔥 thousands of eternities over.

[@Sardious]

I really thought the guy that doesn't give into "even giggling virgins" would be way more controversial. When I seen the ad I assumed they'd get "So you hate pure women? And want fornication?" Or something like that.

[@JustinHonaker]

⁠@@SardiousMy guess is that if the “finger” part wasn’t in the ad, the “giggling virgins” is exactly where the attack would have been focused.

[@ryanbeaver6080]

Appreciate you guys! God bless 🙏

[@christianb4]

Taking a screenshot of 1/20 of a second image from a video, only to then post that gratuitous image everywhere on social media..... All the hand waving is pretty funny to watch.

[@jpsixsmith]

The screenshot that launched a thousand birds.

[@michellegabriel2990]

The guy who screenshotted it likes it & posted it approvingly.

[@CanonPress]

10/10

[@CindyOsborne-TDWP]

​@michellegabriel2990 There's that.

[@Yesica1993]

I understand what they were getting at with the ad. I understand why some people had a problem with it. I agree that maybe some who had a problem with it went too far in their criticisms. (Again, are they THIS upset over our ungodly culture?) But I also think completely discounting any objection to it, no matter how expressed, isn't fair either. I really want to listen to some Johnny Cash now. There was a video I recently watched that was fantastic! I can't post links here, but the title was Johnny Cash - Children, Go Where I Send Thee (Live in Denmark) Also: Johnny Cash - Sunday Morning Coming Down (1972)

[@PanhandleFrank]

One of my dad's CW albums had JC singing SMCD on it. It's become a slight tear-jerker for me. Not for Dad's sake, but for the mental picture he paints.

[@Yesica1993]

@@PanhandleFrank One of the saddest songs ever written. I grew up hearing it. But it wasn't until more recently that I heard it again and realized... the church was right there. He just chose not to go in. Life in Christ is there for the taking. "In the park, I saw a daddy With a laughing little girl who he was swingin' And I stopped beside a Sunday school And listened to the song that they were singin' Then I went on down the road And somewhere far away a lonely bell was ringin' And it echoed through the canyons Like the disappearing dreams of yesterday"

[@Jeff-nb9tw]

I am a member of Joe Morectaft's church, I challenged the men to consider Nehemiah punching men in the head for marrying foreign women. The idea is Nehemiah believed the Word of God enough to take drastic measures in his time. And here we are bickering over a middle finger??? Really??? Just no Professor Ben I loved the ad, but I actually go out and do hard things like abortion ministry, or confront my employees with a hot gospel, or go to city consoul meetings. When you are in the streets doing the work I guess you look at things differently

[@restorehumility3538]

Reminds me of the mocking of Ray Comfort for his opening jokes at Christian comfrences that propelled him into fame he never hoped or dreamed of… The wagging finger or the mockery God can use it for His glory🙏 Keep up the good work guys👍

[@danelmendorf5765]

Good discussion.

[@tategarrett3042]

As much as I appreciate the fire and passion of the add and indeed the ethos of it I think the specific detail of the line to Johnny Cash's favorite finger was a mistake. To imitate Mr. Wilson and translate what was said with fingers into english, this conveys that NSA is looking for people who say "fuck you" to idolatry. The ethos behind that is good, but the explicit reference to vulgarity in both referencing and showing the middle finger suggests you condone vulgarity, obscenity and other things which are in most situations, sins, so long as they are "on your side" so to speak. I think this should be avoided because it can blur the line between what is good and what is sinful, especially to young minds preparing to attend college. A far better middle ground would be something like "young men who are willing to raise their swords against idolatry" or something that is neither vulgar/obscene nor at risk of being easily miss-interpreted as such.

[@AlanMolstad]

we are challenged by Jesus...that part they got right. But the challenge is to wash the feet of even the people against us. The World wants a radical with a bull horn. The Lord wants a servant with a towel

[@LanceJRoberts]

Curse words (cussing) is a sin, even in sign language. Liberty in Christ never gives you the option to sin. [Edited to appease those who want to quibble about the common modern meaning of cursing]

[@timmer110]

So Jesus sinned. There's the fig tree. The woes to you. Those are curses

[@LanceJRoberts]

@@timmer110 No, I'm using the general modern category of curse words, which I could break down to more specific instances, like profanity, obscenity, etc. Nothing to do with that.

[@CanonPress]

you might enjoy reading The Serrated Edge, a biblical theology of profanity and obscenity.

[@timmer110]

@@LanceJRoberts precisely. Words matter. Just because something is modern doesn't make it right. In fact such obfuscation contributes to a lack of understanding of alignment with biblical ideas. In reality most of the Christian culture should be more intolerant of gossip than a finger. But they aren't. They are more aligned with talmudists than God.

[@timmer110]

@@CanonPress thank you. I will check it out

[@monologtube]

In all sincerity: Someone tell [one of the best wordsmiths out there] that it's "high dudgeon" not "high dungeon."

[@heisrisen1113]

I haven’t seen any critics directing the finger anywhere; the criticism is that it’s inappropriate to use the finger for any reason

[@ChaLy-r4d]

Guys you're trying to be macho wolves 🐺 of Wall street but the cross of Calvary revealed the gentle Lamb of Love.❤ You ever wonder if maybe you're just playing at the same game as your adversaries?

[@CanonPress]

heart emoji, heart emoji

[@ChaLy-r4d]

@@CanonPress you guys really need to feel like you're more manly than others. What's up with that? What's up with putting others down? When you detract from others to make yourself feel greater you're just playing the same game as your adversaries. That's why you can't make any difference. Jesus showed us the recipe for combat; the self sacrificial love 💕 of the Cross at Calvary; Bringing himself low to raise others up. Love 💗💗💗💗💗💗💗. That is the tough way. That is the manly way. That is the only " rifle". You're a preacher not a soldier 🪖🪖🪖🪖 🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫. Jesus Christ is a lamb🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑 not 🚫🚫🚫 a Navy Seal 🦭🦭🦭🦭🦭🦭🦭🦭

[@timh.6872]

Your overuse use of emoji reeks of effeminate sensitivity. Your rational points aren't worth even attempting to engage (shallow as they are) because your tone is so clearly emotionally driven. I predict you have and will continue to disagree with everything they do that even remotely looks like actually pushing back the forces of evil. So what are you doing here? Trying to feel the high of expressing derision from a moral bastion? Such an edifice is built on prideful sands and great will be the crash when it falls.

[@ChaLy-r4d]

@@timh.6872 the middle finger doesn't push 🫸 back evil. It multiplies ✖️ it . There's no cure in it. The cross is the cure. Self sacrificial love pushes back evil. Isn't it amazing 🤩 how you have a problem with emojis but not obscene gestures from a preacher? 😜😉

[@timh.6872]

@@ChaLy-r4d You look childish and shallow. Know the times and contexts of use.

[@therealkillerb7643]

I was really confused by the recurring references to the NSA , wondering what the National Security Agency had been up to in Moscow. It took a while to realize that it was shorthand for "New St. Andrews." I liked my initial understanding better! ;-)

[@ionlybowtogod9268]

I hate that as a Baptist I'm siding with Presbyterians gives me the ick.

[@PanhandleFrank]

Then maybe try reviewing your understanding of baptism. I recommend _Children of the Promise_ by Randy Booth.

[@ionlybowtogod9268]

Nah I'll always believe in believers baptism but I'll still read the book

[@PanhandleFrank]

@@ionlybowtogod9268 ​​⁠ 1. Just noticed your avatar. Where do you threep? I began 3-4 years ago in Spokane, but the Lord moved us to Bowling Green KY in 2022, and I’m wondering how to find threepers here. 2. I was born and raised (nominal) Catholic, converted / saved Baptist in 1981. I always knew that some Protestants still baptize their babies, but just assumed that they’d failed to wipe all the Catholic mud off their boots. And when we “went Reformed” ~1998, our first church was credo. But when the Lord brought us to a CREC in ‘99, I asked about this pedo stuff. The pastor gave us Booth’s book. Spoiler alert: Booth was a convinced credobaptist pastor. When several members of his church began asking him Qs about pedobaptism, he began a comprehensive study of biblical baptism in order to put the pedo stuff to rest. But he came away having his mind changed. (And his church handled the “split” very amicably and graciously.) A very accessible book to the laity. (No highfalutin theo-lingo or concepts.) And really, the book isn’t as much about baptism as about the nature of the covenant and its members. (Just wanted to give you a glimpse … ) Peace. 😁

[@billiamnotbob]

I know many people who've had it with "nancy-boy 'christianity'" That was a good ad.

[@I9s7lam5is-S3tu1pid]

The emasculation of Christ has been going on for centuries. You’d think that somehow Jesus ought to have been born female except for having to have the opportunity to speak in a male dominated society and culture.

[@systemrevolt7309]

I’m personally embarrassed by the blowback from fellow Christians in my feed. It’s pretty obvious they aren’t people I can hang out with in real life or liars. The idea that this holier than though attitude is given for flipping off idols is a joke.

[@CanonPress]

it's helped get the video further!

[@dylanwagoner9768]

This is such a stupid argument. I knew of a guy who didn't know any better, and he got up in front of the whole church and was cussing the devil out. He had good intentions, but he was immature, he didn't know any better. And to say he shouldn't have done it isn't being "holier than thou".

[@patrickc3419]

I’m embarrassed that there are self proclaimed Christians who support him.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@dylanwagoner9768invalid argument. The pastor isn't flipping people off in the service

[@maxstrange7606]

Just wondering where in the NT it says look for testosterone, gusto, and hairy chest men? I thought it was character? I'm not against Moscow and I read Wilson's books. Just curious.

[@Yesica1993]

* insert "Why not both?" meme here *

[@cosmictreason2242]

"Aquit yourselves like men" That verse says they're the same thing

[@dlmetzger]

Is there a link to the AD in question? I'm ignorant. Thx. Update: 'kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5rZiaV7iLGClbc'

[@markchristian787]

Heres a question for anyone out there-aside from the fact I have tremendous respect for Christ Church/NSA/Canon Press, etc-can you teach college aged freshmen men to have a backbone? Is it too late at that point or is it at all possible?

[@LorinPartain]

I love the Moscow Mood, wish more churches had it !!!

[@erroldintong615]

We can fight idolatry without doing something vulgar. This video just justify their error and its sick and disheartening.

[@CanonPress]

did the devil write this?

[@cosmictreason2242]

The middle finger is hardly vulgar. Is sign language for "i don't care what you say, leave me alone."

[@JojoPotato1991]

For guys who want an engine swap, what direction do you go?

[@I9s7lam5is-S3tu1pid]

Does it feel like a coward when you willingly suffer and die for someone else?

[@lonniecraig5186]

When I hear these critics of this ad decry and condemn actual idolatry and Molech-worshiping crowds with the exact, same, precise level of frequency, volume, and conviction as they do this ad, I'll take them more seriously. Only then. You are the kind of people who decry and condemn Lot for offering his two daughters to the crowd, yet you never say a blasted word about the crowd who wanted to commit their evil deeds. Oh, and I would like to remind you that neither Paul, nor the prophets, nor Jesus were "nicer than God." For reference, see the following- Ezekiel 23:19-21; Galatians 5:12; Matthew 23. You would probably be "tsk, tsking" them for saying such carnal words and fleshly sayings. Start condemning the crowd outside Lot's house first, and then I'll consider your points on Lot himself. Start condemning the wickedness of the world, and I'll consider what you day about this ad. Until then, I have zero to say to you. I suspect it will be a very, very, very long time...

[@thebluebutterfly5177]

Please, where can I see this ad?

[@CanonPress]

on the New Saint Andrews College youtube page!

[@thebluebutterfly5177]

@@CanonPress thank you, of course! Thank you! Much appreciated🙏🏻

[@donawyo]

Where do I find this ad?

[@CanonPress]

on the New saint Andrews College youtube page!

[@jeffreyAferguson]

Am I the only one not getting audio? Also why was this not posted to Canon+ first?

[@CanonPress]

we have audio here!

[@jeffreyAferguson]

@@CanonPress it's working now, so very strange.

[@burkholdermedia2732]

This type of attitude seriously concerns the feminists.

[@Yj-Fj]

Hence the continued demise of the west is still kept on an even keel

[@qodesmith520]

You guys are everything the church needs. The ad is a masterpiece of intentionality. Goal achieved 💯

[@CanonPress]

Thanks for watching!

[@abrahamcheng3398]

We need godly young man that boldly preach the Gospel, rather than worldly young man that points middle finger to idol. They should not have done an ad just for good marketing, rather they should have done an ad that glorifies God. To say that Elijah does it, then we can do it as well, has completely misinterpret the Bible, because the Bible has different genre in each books, and Elijah is a prophet that was depicted in history genre of the Bible, so it should not necessary be turned into a biblical principle to be followed, such as David has many wives should not become a principle for us to follow. Rather the Bible provides other genre that explains what principles that Christian should follows, and that includes the Law, the Psalms, the Proverbs in the Old Testament, and the Epistles in the New Testament. And Paul indeed tell us that we should not use bad language (Eph 4:29; 5:4) and that we should not be conformed to the world (Rom 12:1-2), so middle finger is something that everyone globally understands it to be a gesture of offense. That is not what a godly Christian should do. But Christian with false zeal might support pointing middle finger to idol, but true zeal ought to make us correctly interpret the Bible and follow its principle. Highly recommend that you would read the Godly Man's Picture by Thomas Watson, he explains clearly about what true zeal is and what false zeal is. And I don't see this as true zeal, it looks more like worldly false zeal. We need to raise godly young man in this generation, not worldly young man.

[@CanonPress]

many words, few paragraphs

[@abrahamcheng3398]

@@CanonPress 🙄 I really don't understand what happens to you Americans these days... So hard hearted and unrepentant

[@abrahamcheng3398]

@@CanonPress 🙄

[@ChristianRevivalOrg]

I think of CS LEWIS lamenting Christian men being robbed of honer during combat as opposed to the Muslim..we are at an existential moment..

[@tgthomasgoertzen]

Where is the controversy coming from?

[@I9s7lam5is-S3tu1pid]

It’s the fixation. The classic speck in their eye

[@brucekyer5530]

we don't teach hoisting the Jolly Rodger at NAS, it's an elective. Brilliant ND.

[@Pacemasterx]

17:25 how is that not blasphemous?

[@AmbassadorMiller]

I wonder what Phinneas would’ve thought about this ad… 😂😂😂

[@CanonPress]

he might faint!

[@cosmictreason2242]

Can you imagine him saying the bloody sacrifices are too offensive and he doesn't want any part of it

[@LauPineda]

So not grave soaking. Thank God! PTSD from Bethel Reeding just gave me flashbacks from crazy so called “Christians” in CA 😂😂😂 Jokes aside, I am not a man (clearly) but curious of what you guys are doing. I’ll keep watching.

[@CanonPress]

Happy to have you!

[@davidthepolitepaladin1195]

Christian’s: hey that was immature and crass can you please not Doug: you don’t want to fight the devil!

[@cosmictreason2242]

Your very first word is in question

[@brianholland5447]

St. Boniface did A LOT more than just give the local idol the finger!

[@shanpastaflocka]

A satisfactory explanation

[@joelwatson4083]

Peter cursed when he didn't want to be identified with Jesus.

[@CanonPress]

quake take!

[@LanceJRoberts]

Yes, and it was a sin, as was his denail.

[@joelwatson4083]

@@LanceJRoberts Which was sort of my point. I think Wilson & Friends obsession with vulgarity is problematic.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@joelwatson4083 no, Peter SWORE. As in, "On my mother's grave, i didn't do it." Not potty mouth talk as you're thinking of

[@joelwatson4083]

@@cosmictreason2242 "Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew." Matthew 26:74

[@georgeluke6382]

My issue is the biblical argument. It seems Ezekiel, or Paul, are both categorical confusions- they’re both doing distinct things, and it seems you’ve reduced your reasonable interlocutor crowd to tactical disagreement. I want to propose another category. We should mock enemies. We can defecate on their gods. The issue is whether there’s a reasonable case to be made that good masculine energy never wants to f idols, but instead s on them and mock them. And whether that’s actually a meaningful principle and tactical difference. Because of this, and because of taking the association of the bird with the words “f- you” as really having violent force because of really being tied to what’s behind the circumlocution, I think the disagreement from some is intuitional more nuanced than what’s been said here as the rational third way. The third category I’m proposing is loving the general principle of get good men who are godly troublemakers to NSA, but disagree that pragmaticism relative to the political predictability of your enemies, or connections to vulgar uses of members by Paul or Ezekiel, are the same as what f you means or why the bird is offensive. That is, the tactic of Cash and the principle behind “f- you” aren’t justified, and it’s not simply a question of God being pleased with a whipped and humiliated idol but drawing the line at you using your 20% wave. The issue is whether holy hands and bridled tongues are allowed to participate in certain speech-acts by nature of what they’re bound up in explicitly, and where they draw their locutionary force. The issue isn’t the illocution (what you intended to say), or the perlocution (leaderboard, results of the speech), it’s that the locutionary force and offensiveness in the phrase “f- you” only works if the full word and its associated horizon of ideas is actually there. Otherwise, it’s not offensive anymore. Was helped by the pointing out that there was a circumlocution involved in how Cash’s thumb was cut, and that this was the equivalent of “f- you” not the full four letter word. Good point. Better than the alternative!

[@CanonPress]

we're for profit bruh

[@georgeluke6382]

@@CanonPress an argument for the ages

[@joeadrian2860]

I betcha that most if not every person who had a difficult time with this ad may have had an extremely hard time justifying voting for Trump - that "winsome" crowd. What do you think?

[@joeadrian2860]

@@manager0175 Name ONE good reason other than she is not Trump.

[@joeadrian2860]

@@manager0175 How would I do that? Not me. I think Canon would be the only one to be able to do that yes?

[@jtb_5]

Count me among the supportive quibblers. I love what NSA is doing and what Logos began. If my dissent in any way contributes to the publicity, good for NSA. But since I can't sit down over a beer and have that awesome conversation, here's my quibble. Metaphors and imagery bear a lot of meanings, and even on opposite sides of the aisle (e.g. be wise as serpents; Satan is a serpent). When I read the mockery in Scripture, whether it is Elijah, or Ezekiel, or Jesus, or Paul (etc.) I see scatological language--urinating, defecating, menstrual blood, castration. Sometimes the word-picture is just literal (the word for menstruation rags is compared to "all our righteousness"), sometimes the word is a euphemism ("flesh" in Ez. 23:20) but the image is obscene: the "flesh" of a paramour being the size of the "flesh" of a donkey and the man's issue (literal use btw) being the amount of a horse. But in these uses, the image is always tied directly to a theological point: our righteous deeds are impure because we sin even as we do them; Israel's idolatry is as obscene as a girl who gives herself to those who offer only sensual pleasure, but no support or protection; Judaizers who falsely claim Gentiles need to circumcise their flesh ought to cut their members off to be consistent with such falsehoods. The use of these mockeries or obscenities are never just for the effect, but to hammer home a specific point. You all maintain, if I hear you rightly, that "the finger" image is one of our culture's strongest means of disgust and rebuke. Granted. But what the image means originates as a term for sexual intercourse which became a pejorative at some point and has proliferated in use since the 90s. Here's where we will likely disagree: the pejorative use implies sexual violation (whether self-inflicted or by another) and I don't see a theological message to idolatry in that image--it seems to simply communicate the shock value, rather than a specific message from the metaphor/image. So my main quibble is about the specific term of abuse, not the willingness or fittingness of using abusive language against an enemy. I don't often disagree with you guys, and I remain supportive even when I do, so keep up the good work!

[@martiruth143]

@@jtb_5 Totally agree!

[@CanonPress]

Grateful for the comment! Wrong People are welcome here!

[@jtb_5]

​@@CanonPressA rejoinder worthy of the opening.

[@jtb_5]

@@manager0175 I don't know.

[@montehines1073]

Moses killed an Egyptian to try to rescue Israel from oppression, Peter cut off an ear trying to protect Jesus. God used both greatly for his kingdom, both willing to flip the bird, both needed Godly training to successfully do what they tried to do in their flesh. I like the ad.

[@nycole3412]

I wonder about the idolatry of edginess?

[@CanonPress]

with that profile pic I don't think that's a ditch you're in danger of!

[@Yj-Fj]

@@CanonPress😂😂😂😂

[@martiruth143]

@@CanonPress You could address that concern instead of making a flippant comment. Idolatry of edginess is a real thing

[@RomanZeNine]

@@CanonPress 🤣

[@dancampbell189]

"Edginess" cannot be idolatry, because edginess, and/or the desire for edginess is not, nor can it be, an idol. Idols are idols