THE SCANDAL PART A | The Dwayne and Jennifer Podcast | Season 6 | Podcast

THE SCANDAL PART A | The Dwayne and Jennifer Podcast | Season 6 | Podcast #103 |
• THE SCANDAL PART A | T...
In the debut of season 6 of the Dwayne and Jennifer Podcast, they break their long silence and talk about the Mike Bickle and IHOPKC scandal that has developed over the last year. They discuss some of why they have taken the posture they've taken and their experience walking through this tremendous trial.
#ihopkc #mikebickle #scandal
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dwayne Roberts was born in Calgary Canada, and from ages 6-8 he lived in Zimbabwe with his family as missionaries. After returning to Canada Dwayne, he spent his teenage years there. With a dream in his heart, he went to Youth With A Mission (YWAM) in Amsterdam, Holland at the age of 19 to do a discipleship training school.
Jennifer was born in Shelton, Washington. She was born into an unconventional, non-Christian family. At the age of 16, she got radically saved and has never looked back. At the age of 19, Jennifer also decided to do a discipleship training school in Amsterdam with Youth With A Mission (YWAM).
While in Amsterdam Dwayne and Jennifer fell in love and got married. Over the next several years they lived in Amsterdam, Holland, and Budapest, Hungry, and traveled to over 35 countries leading multiple outreaches with YWAM. In 1998 the Lord moved Dwayne and Jennifer to Kansas City, Missouri where they were the first staff members at the International House of Prayer (IHOPKC). Dwayne pioneered several departments including the well-known Onething Conference. In 2013 the Lord once again moved them to Florianopolis Brazil where they started FHOP, the Florianopolis House of Prayer, a praying church and missions base. Finally, in 2019 the Lord spoke again and the Roberts Family moved to Denver Colorado where they served as the Campus Pastors for UPPERROOM Denver for 2 years. They now reside in Kansas City where they are pastors of a micro church.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Subscribe to Dwayne and Jennifer: / @dwayneandjennifer
Sign up for their newsletter with exclusive content: dwayneandjenni...
Follow Dwayne on Instagram: / dwayneroberts
Follow Jennifer on Instagram: / jenniferrobertsbr
Follow Dwayne on Facebook: / dwayne.roberts.77
Follow Jennifer on Facebook: / jennifer.roberts.583
Listen on Spotify: open.spotify.c...
DwayneandJennifer.com
Produced by Chloe Roberts
#thedwayneandjenniferpodcast #podcast
Code: 3NXJO5Z32DVJLPLC

[@diane8907]

I knew MB back in the earliest days.....he will never publicly apologize or give anything to a victim. I would be 100% shocked if he ever did no matter how old he becomes. My earnest and sincere hope against hope is that he is able to see truth and completely surrender himself to Christ . I hope he makes it.

[@shannonbradbury2138]

Thank you for being a BOLD & COURAGEOUS voice Dwayne & Jen!! It’s been almost a year and we are still in shock about what IHOPKC actually was!!

[@davidsayers6609]

MB preached another gospel, condemned by the Apostle Paul himself

[@lindag9975]

Thanks! It seems that the leaders just outsourced repentance to the attendees who were innocent of the wrongdoing and coverups.

[@RCGWho]

This is why I disagree with going after everyone, BUT MB. It tells me that it's a pursuit of the deep pockets, which would be 💰 via the ihop assets.

[@sunnyfamily6094]

I left the charismatic movement many years ago due to seeing so much false prophecy, declaring healing that never came to pass and blaming it on the sick person for lack of faith. Other spiritually abusive things. But I still watched IHOP for the passionate worship. Now that’s gone too. But thanks be to God He doesn’t change and all the stuff will one day pass. My heart still longs for heaven. God bless you.

[@jameslinmd]

But there are many true prophecies as well. God allows both the wheat and the tare to grow. We are meant to persevere and mature in faith. That's why we are put here on earth.

[@sunnyfamily6094]

@@jameslinmd sorry but you probably have no idea the devastation false prophecy caused me and countless others. I have completely lost faith in the charismatic movement. I am still a Christian but no longer charismatic.

[@jameslinmd]

@@sunnyfamily6094 you don't need to be charismatic. Frankly, God doesn't care about denomination. I understand the reality of prophecies not coming to pass. I flow in the prophectic for 35 years and got burned by the prophecies I received for myself and from others. My point is that the prophecies are much more complicated than whether or not they come to pass. People should refrain from criticisms because we walk by faith, not by sight or the prophecies. Prophecies should be treated as confirmation, not fortunetelling.

[@carynmason3421]

It's still a bag of poop!😂 thank you Jennifer! I appreciate this so much. Truth, repentance, love for victims, willingness to examine self. This is going to minister to people. God is light, in Him there is no darkness. Its time to bring light into all the darkness

[@theresagrote3204]

Thank you for your courage and humility.

[@servantofmessiah1071]

Thank you SO MUCH for this broadcast!!!! This is going to go somewhere! I could not agree with you more. I believe the heart spoken here is the heart of God!

[@janicerobin7868]

Thank you so much, Jennifer. Everything you said is right on about what we need to re-evaluate. Thank you.

[@Zadok1977]

Thank you guys for your transparency, and your baldness. Many of us are affected because we have been influenced by the prayer movement and the prophetic movement. My heart is grieved, but I also see what the Lord is doing in this hour. I pray for reconciliation and restoration the body of Christ with these ministries. I am confident and out of the ashes will rise beautiful things

[@pdkonkol]

Dwayne, “thanks for your baldness” 😂 That just made my morning

[@lizbrown4790]

This episode is really appreciated. I can’t imagine how difficult it is to try to communicate with others while going through your own process and healing. I really like how you view the audience as on a spectrum. That makes a lot of sense. I did intro to IHOP in 2003 and actually babysat your kids at least once but I can’t remember if more.😊. Rachael B (don’t want to mention her name here without her permission) was one of my roommates and maybe I was filling in for her (some of that time is a blur so I’m not 100 % sure.) Anyways, everyone that went through IHOP even for a short time has a story-Whether difficult or amazing (or a blend), and many of us are probably processing all of our experiences in light of the things that have been revealed. So I consider myself on the spectrum and I appreciate you both opening up. I know it’s going to help people who’ve felt alone in this and who need to hear authentic conversations like you are offering. Thank you so very much!

[@juliewaring604]

I am one of those in that other circle....I read Mikes book The Passion of Jesus....was super inspired at the time....watched ihop....often wanted to go to a conference...watched a number of conferences.....worshiped before the Lord in dance privately whilst listening to Misty Edwards.......so many wil lbe like me....on the outer fringes.....what i sense when i hear all about Mike now is.....like what the disciples must have felt..when jesus was crucified...their leader who maybe was going to overthrow Rome...suddenly ...gone....and no one could say anything...they just went back to work like they had before jesus came on the scene...shell shocked...what just happened!!!!.......all i can say is....eyes on jesus....only....we are in the seperation time...those goats are starting to be singled out....but we have a pope mentality too.....this is course correction for many........i agree give that 25 million to all those students in the prayer room who sacrificed their lives , money and time for this cause.....and compensate those victims.....shut the whole thing down......

[@rachaelwalvatne6221]

I can’t understand how people like yourself who believe in prophecy a la Ihopkc could not have discerned the dysfunction of that system. Lots of koolaid in the leadership that trickled down to the followers

[@bryanprice7897]

I love and appreciate yall so much.

Imagine if the prophet Nathan was blamed for King David's downfall when he had to the courage from the Lord to say to David "Thou art the man" when revealing what David had done. At least David had the humility to be honest before the Lord and accept the blame for his actions. Blaming the one who calls for truth and transparency, to uncover a lifelong predator shows you where our faith and trust in a "charismatic leader" exceeds our faith and trust in the Lord himself. WE have setup our own idols. WE have worshipped a man. WE now defend someone in spite of and in direct conflict to the truth. WE need to repent in weeping and ashes and RETURN TO THE LORD! Judgement begins at the House of the Lord. God will not be mocked. HE will expose it all. Which side will you be on when HE exposes it all?

[@iampink1023]

You guys are so brave! Thank you for leading out with humility and honesty. Appreciate you guys.

[@zhuangcorp]

Dwayne, you said your heart is for all the victims of the entire abusive system. You signed the initial statement with Brian and Wes, even though Brian knew of the sexual affairs a year in advance and still kept Bickle on the oversight committee. Then Brian dropped out of the AG with no explanation. You pastored Upperroom Denver then handed the leadership over to Brian. We are now hearing reports of multiple victims of spiritual abuse under Brian out of your former church in Denver, but also Colorado Springs and Kansas City. If you truly care about victims and stand against the abusive system that has now traveled out of KC, please speak up for these victims. Please clarify your position on this issue.

[@jmm8305]

Keep in mind as you listen to this that it was recorded in April. Also I believe that they are starting from the beginning of the public announcements and their part in that. This is just the first episode in a season.

[@marthasoenen2790]

Jeff Gotti- did you mean John Gotti as in the mafia? Yikes if that’s what you meant. 😮

[@robynellison3790]

​@jmm8305 recorded September 11 2024 not April. Wednesday, just gone.

[@redneved93]

Where are these reports of spiritual abuse? I heard this accusation against Brian on Remnant Radio but haven't been able to find anything

[@zhuangcorp]

@@redneved93 it was first reported on remnant radio. A full report hasn't been made public yet. But privately, victims have shared their abuse to Remnant Radio and also to some members of AG

[@bboop200]

Dwayne: you’re looking GREAT post open heart (from a 30 year nurse….in cardiac ICU)!!! Great job you guys. I’ve thought of you often through all of this. 😢❤

[@janicerobin7868]

Thank you both so much I subscribed today because the humility that you're speaking, you're not speaking the spiritual arrogance that you're being humble and reevaluating and want the fear of the lord and your sincerity.Thank you guys,

[@jameslinmd]

Don't exert yourself too much after an open heart surgery Dwayne. It'll take three months to heal and not feel pain.

[@bboop200]

And a whole year before totally normal. Hang in!

[@davidsayers6609]

Dwayne you appear to be one of God's precious and sensitive saints. You nailed calling the prayer room idolatrous and the Apostle Paul himself condemns it as another gospel NKJV Bible. Galatians 1:6-9 [6]I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, [7]which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. [8]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [9]As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

[@JeremyButrous]

Ownership and responsibility comes from a place of repair. Manipulitive narcissists don't desire repair because it doesn't serve them. Also, thank you for saying your not a professional victim advocate. Pastors too often think they can do everything because God is with them. However, professional victim advocates are tied to attorney-client privilege and helpful legal process.

[@chrismirjam]

I so appreciate you both Dwayne and Jen. Your authenticity and humbleness is such and example. Such a deep valley journey..through your journey and reflection now Jesus is honoured and His love seen. Thank you I loved your love for Jesus and people in your Amsterdam and Budapest days.. Your love and wisdom grew so much deeper. His love is deeper...may the Lord restore the joy of our Salvation. Love from Mirjam Bos ( the dutch girl who ran the crèche long time ago 😊)

[@pdkonkol]

I don’t think 24/7 prayer was the idol. Mike was the idol. His 24/7 prayer model was the way his followers obeyed him. His followers placed their faith in him: they believed the false claims he made about himself and they obeyed his commands. They believed this would lead them into a glorious future.

[@asmith1230]

I think when leaders didn't press pause and care for the deeply wounded flock after October 2023, that showed the idolatry was more systemic. God was/is surely angry about the darkness there for decades (I'm saying this as one who's followed teachings for 20+ years, and still appreciate many things taught), but those leaders didn't see God as having a real problem and a need to clean house. After the first 1-3 months of the scandal, the Board should have said, we're going to keep going, but cameras off... no stage. The fire will look like people talking, hugs being given, forgiveness, healing. But the stage had precedence and many leaders were part of that.

[@pdkonkol]

@@asmith1230 When I say Mike was the idol, I’m not saying the problem is NOT systemic. For example, look at the LDS church. In that system, Joseph Smith is the idol, and belief in his claims and adherence to his teachings is the way to right standing with God. In the LDS there are MANY systemic problems that find their root in the veneration of Joseph Smith. I think that keeping the prayer room going is a form of Mike worship; the leaders continue to be committed to his claims and to following his teaching of 24/7 prayer. Just for context, I’m a 12-year IHOP vet, 7 of those years in KC a couple blocks from the GPR.

[@TroyStevens430]

Dwayne & Jennifer: You've done the right thing with how you handled this situation. I hear in your voice how apologetic you are about having made mistakes. I get that and commend you for it. However, on judgment day I'd far rather have Jesus point out to me that I could've been a little 'smoother around the edges' in my delivery than have him call me a coward who enabled one of Satan's foot soldiers because I was afraid of hurting someone's feelings. Bravo 💪

[@RCGWho]

Accusers should only be anonymous if they are underage.

[@vanessajohnson7475]

Says who? Your issue with not knowing who the victims are is very troubling. Suggests a level of nosiness at the very least and at worst suggests a desire to harass them.

[@j7489]

Says the law. The accused have the right to face their accusers.

[@RCGWho]

@vanessajohnson7475 It's easy to find the name of Jane Doe. Everyone who was at ihopkc for any length of time knows who it is. But as the other poster said, in our legal system the accusers faces rhe accused. I personally understand as we have equal protection under the law. It's wrong to have hate crimes for example. My Dad was murdered. Does it matter if he was murdered for money or for being gay or for being black or a crime of passion? No. Murder is murder regardless of motivation. And there's a measure of hate in all murders unless it was an accident and it becomes murder 2. So, regardless of whether it's a sex crime, accusers face the accused.

[@RCGWho]

@vanessajohnson7475 If I didn't literally come after JD1, I didn't harass anyone. I'm exercising free speech, which is endangered right now.

[@vanessajohnson7475]

@@j7489in court. You are conflating platforms.

[@matthewb252able]

Would you talk about how unhealthy it is for much of the independent charismatic church to have no real governance and accountability structures. If IHOP, MB , and the AG were credentialed and members of a larger fellowship of likeminded churches and ministries that were overseen by a team presbyters or bishops,, superintendents that have years of experience governing and leading churches this would have looked much different. This could’ve been handled much better on all sides. The way that this was took to the Internet without being submitted unto wise, tested men and women of God that have had years of experience governing the church. Then this would’ve looked much different. This situation amongst many others demonstrates the inability of the independent charismatic church to govern itself in manor that glorifies Jesus.

[@asmith1230]

There are problems inherent to the charismatic movement, but sexual abuse is in every group sadly enough. Everyone is sick of hearing about SBC, catholic church, and yes many reformed churches as well (Mars Hill, etc)... no one really has room to talk I'm afraid.

[@matthewb252able]

@@asmith1230the issue I am addressing is not the fact that there is sexual immorality and inappropriate behavior. Sadly, This will always happen at some degree in churches (it happened in the churches the apostle Paul planted). I was speaking more to church governance to address these issues when they arise. The very nature of the church is a mixture divine presence & truth with human sinfulness. This the need for godly and righteous church governance that is trained and experienced in how to discipline ministers of gospel, correct the church, and bringing healing to those affected without destroying the church and bringing more disgrace to the name of Jesus. By the way I don’t believe the issue is that they are charismatic (I am a fully committed charismatic/pentecostal) but that there is a lack of fellowship with an ordaining body that governs well.

[@RCGWho]

So, everyone plunder the assets and divide the spoil. 💰 💰

[@mariac5154]

Is everyone throwing out all MB or IHOP teachings? Just curious.

[@asmith1230]

Theologically speaking, weigh the teachings in light with the Bible (Apostolic Premillenialism, Focus on Bride of Christ)... there's a lot of good there. But many practices were also tied into teachings by word and example... exalting certain leaders; pushing personal limits in fasting, in economic sacrifices, with time away from family/friends; building a culture of shame for those with questions.

[@tlsings55]

Personally, I’m questioning all of it. Feeling like I’m starting over again. I have thrown away all of the teaching/books from the latter rain movement. Painful unraveling for sure, but thankful for Jesus’ great mercy!

[@mariac5154]

@@asmith1230 yeah, it’s something ive been pondering since all this blew up. I have many MB teachings, greaves, allen hood, etc. I love the Song of Songs teaching MB did years ago.

[@pdkonkol]

@@mariac5154 I am. But there’s some nuance to it. I believe that IHOP was a religion dedicated to the worship of Mike. At first that sounds ridiculous because IHOP seems to look like a lot of Christian organizations and shares theological views that would be considered orthodox. Looking more deeply, however, and considering my time there, it is becoming more obvious to me that it was really about faith in Mike’s claims about himself and obedience to his teachings that were the constant drumbeat and primary focus. In other words, faith in Mike = right standing with God. Now I know without a doubt that his claims about himself are false (he is not a righteous man but an unrepentant sexual predator, and the PH is fabricated). I think that all of his teaching, even those that could be considered orthodox, were used in service to present a false image of himself his followers could worship. I believe that kind of hypocrisy taints all of it. So, I think he is a false teacher - not that specific teachings were false (though they were) - but the character of the man was so corrupt it corrupted and twisted everything he taught, even the teaching of Jesus’ love for us, which, in hindsight, seemed to be a license for immortality on his and others’ parts.

[@mariac5154]

@@pdkonkol thank u for sharing that.

[@RCGWho]

47:00 I didn't seek to destroy the prayer room, but also I want the prayer room shut down? A church doesn't close because a pastor falls. 48:00 The value of the property is more important to them....but also to the AG. This is what it's all about on BOTH sides. This is the truth. 💰 The "main" Jane Doe gas a lawyer. Boz. You get a lawyer to get 💰. Because money heals all wounds. It's the American way.

[@asmith1230]

I have supported IHOP-kc for 20 years... first with visits, then after living abroad by sending campers, students, etc. This scandal hit home when someone where I live abroad shared inappropriate behavior from MB. I still value a number of teachings from MB and other leaders, but you've got to call a spade a spade and recognize MB was an abuser. Regarding Dwayne's comments at 47-48:00, I don't see any contradiction. He's saying he wishes the institution would NOT disappear, but take very seriously a RESET. He points out the idolatry, and that's what it was... the leaders were pushing to just "keep the fire going" while ignoring grievious personal and institutional sin. A RESET was/is needed. Closing the prayer room temporarily to have honest conversations is not the same as wanting it to disappear.

[@benjaminlee157]

I HOP Kc is a corporation and or a secular company. Governed by corporate laws and not the Bible. If it was a church it would have decons and elders who control the leadership of the body.

[@bboop200]

Yes to both of you! God help us all.

[@thevillageofnod]

In reality, nothing has happened except real estate got moved around. This is ridiculous.

[@diane8907]

Mike began his escape plan as far back as 2018 or 2019....he outsmarted everyone...in an evil way....and reshuffled real estate, funds, titles etc. There will probably not be any legal loopholes where anyone will receive anything. Besides....who even wants that corrupt money or property?

[@thevillageofnod]

So I’m 12 minutes in now and still talking about yourselves and the podcast. No wonder this investigation is going nowhere.

[@sherylturnerturner1352]

Laying the ground work for future podcasts is necessary to go forward. It's hasn't gone forward b/c of Mike and the shuffling of leaders not willing. How would you have done it any better?

[@asmith1230]

You haven't been paying attention. They've pushed, but the ones not wanting to investigate have been the other side since the beginning.

[@chandiheenan2712]

Jennifer “I’m asking the Lord to show in me the pockets of elitism.” Then proceeds speaking on a podcast that had to extract the word Show from its title to talk about the “failures” of others. Yall really love to hear yourselves talk huh?

[@asmith1230]

You can be public, and profess humility.

[@chandiheenan2712]

There is nothing humble about 1) publicly accusing a man of sexual abuse without knowing whether or not he did it outside of believing a friend, 2) creating pain and disillusionment for believers on global scale 3) self promoting and fundraising off the back of the scandal 4) making yourself the center of righteousness vs Jesus and the cross, simply put when the attention has been diverted from the SAVING POWER OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS to a person it is NOT humility, and is, in fact, a religious spirit that LOVES to have its ego stroked. I’ll leave another quote from the video to wrap up my point: Dwayne, “ You usually humiliate me.” Jennifer. “Well, it’s easy to do sweetie.” Gross Gross Gross These two have loved the sound of their own voice unto WOUNDING the Body of Christ. May their eyes be opened, may they sincerely repent, and may God have mercy❤️ Proverbs 6:16

[@j7489]

It’s very manipulative. Nothing has actually been proven and these former leaders just assume every allegation is true and then gossip about it on the internet. How anyone can think what is happening isn’t demonically inspired and orchestrated is beyond me.

[@georgesamuel4403]

1 Timothy 6:10. So…How much of the money, donated by people who sacrificed much needed income to spread the Gospel, in these perilous times… have you two been offered to side with the Lawyers…? Who cash in on tragedies, as a get rich quick scheme.

[@sherylturnerturner1352]

Spending all those years under Mike Bickle only to find out who he truly was must have been such a gut punch. Thank you for sharing all you did. This type of Christianity has filtered down from the Latter Rain especially having Paul Cain there to share that plumbline. ❤‍🩹