The Secret History by Donna Tartt - A Philosophical Analysis

[@giovannimartin3239]

This is the greatest KZbin channel of the modern age. I also relate heavily to Richard, although I try to resist it these days. I once related more to Henry, but I heavily try to resist that now, so I don’t share his fate,

[@languagegame410]

it's a great KZbin channel... NPG hits the *ssRAW!! lol

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

Hey Salts, I used to listen to some of your episodes, recently started revisiting some of your past content. I tend to describe myself as a deterministic empiricist, while politically Libertarian, sort of Jungian. I've read at least some Nietzsche, and have always had trepidation about his work, despite its timeless brilliance. However, at this point I'm fully appreciating your in-depth understanding, of some of the richest material in the cannon, and the very high quality of your content. This is almost like an education. Will follow your future work. Thanks a lot dude, be well.

[@_7.8.6]

Although not directly, the Sufi poets had a Dionysian spirit. Their poetry is littered with imagery of divine madness, love, sorrow, annihilation

[@carvo3032]

Can you give me some starting points to read?

[@_7.8.6]

@@carvo3032 Rumi is probably the best

[@prs_81]

​@@carvo3032imo Attar of Nishapur is better than Rumi for starters since he influenced all Sufi poets of the tradition that came after him including Rumi.

[@Bryndenrivers69]

What a delightful video, so many thoughts, ideas and emotions brought up by remembering it. I must say there is an appeal to the loss of self. To feel like a blank canvas, to be wiped of all memories, experiences, feelings, thoughts and everything that makes us who and what we are. I myself felt like this once when I was 21, it was my second time trying LSD. And I felt as I was experiencing everything differently. Nothing was on my mind except for the people then and there, which became all I knew. After what felt like hours I heard someone say to not look in the mirror. I ran to the nearest one and looked at my self. It was as if I was seeing this person for the first time. While looking at him and analyzing his appearance I realized that he was in fact me. And I remembered. Everything about myself my life who I was, I felt a humanity I normally feel disconnected from. It was the most extraordinary feeling I have ever had. And I am yet to experience it again. That’s how it goes with drugs, you’ll spend eternity trying to relive that first time. So there is no point in chasing it. The idea of a Bacchae is alluring, I long to not feel like myself, to feel blank, inexperienced and temporarily reborn. It is beautifully terrifying. I imagine dying would feel similar.

[@winterywillow.]

Anything TSH or Donna Tartt related and I am present!

[@untimelyreflections]

Cheers! To live forever.

[@okantony]

I am falling in love with your channel by the minute

[@whoaitstiger]

Richard has a naive Apollonian conception of Dionysus, and he ends up committing a truly Dionysian act to save his Apollonian fantasy, unraveling himself in the process. "there is an evil principle in nature that not one shall find that which he cannot help seeking..."

[@untimelyreflections]

This is a great tl;dr of Richard’s character.

[@rivanathans8485]

Great interpretation of Richard’s dream at the end of the book. Julian Morrow as manifestation of Dionysus is an interesting theory when the parallels from The Bacchae are included.

[@XanDionysus]

"Honesty is a dangerous virtue." In this Post-Truth age, Honesty is indeed a very dangerous virtue.

[@thoughtful1233]

We aren't post-truth, we are post-consensus. The truth is not a unifying force. It simply is, and we can only ever carry some of it.

[@aeternaflux]

Keegan, my friend-isn’t it wonderful that everyday we have the opportunity to create the world and ourselves in our own image? Isn’t it beautiful? We’re each our own individual, and we each have our own particular peculiarities and idiosyncrasies-and I know of no better way to live and to be than to become, in every moment, something separate and distinct from that which I was in the moment before. I recognize your efforts and I applaud you for it. The fruits of your labor are sweet, I’m sure. I know mine certainly are. I’m grateful both to be here and to have created what I have, and, as well, I am grateful to have come into contact with you and your creation. We’ve arrived at the summit, and yet still we wander onto higher peaks. What life could be better than this one?

[@DreamseedVR]

One without inflation and ww3

[@aeternaflux]

@@DreamseedVR Lmao who the hell cares? Same story as it always was. Go cry to somebody who gives a shit.

[@alexanderandro1895]

I've mentally returned to elements of this book again and again for the years after reading it. Loved your analysis.

[@justsomecreatureofthisearth]

Great analysis, thank you.

[@phillipjordan1010]

Salts i actually watched this entire analysis then purchased the book and ive never heard of Donna Tartt before. I actually like spoilers as a way to help me navigate the novel and keep within context. Nice piece Salts

[@goodnightvienna8511]

@phillipjordan1010 good choice , also see if you can spot some familiar characters from Bret easton Ellis' universe 🤓

[@storieswithc]

Thank you for this analysis!

[@JamesO512]

In addition to the interesting content, your voice is very pleasant.

[@gus8310]

Dionysian disillusion. (Childhood) 08/10/2024 Dance to the rhythm your body demands, Release your shame and all your plans, Let go and be one with the ever living being, The beauty in your body and earthly freeing; Oh illusions of order in a whirling pool, See through your eyes, speak like a fool, Rid the cage that binds words into lines, On what of this word play from a ghoul, Learn from the living and embodied shrine, I say it again a wise man is a fool. This poem came to me during this podcast, it gave light to my experience and what I would call disillusionment last year.

[@untimelyreflections]

👏

[@gus8310]

@@LynneSimpson-mm3us thank you! I do publish my poems on Instagram if you would like to see more of it.

[@bryanutility9609]

“Bang all the holes… let go” How’s my poem?

[@gus8310]

@@bryanutility9609 pretty good solution

[@untimelyreflections]

@@bryanutility9609 now say it with more music, more lyricism

[@ptag6]

Fantastic video.

[@jackpayne4658]

I have spent far too many hours casting the actors for a film of The Secret History. I probably belong to a sizeable club.

[@untimelyreflections]

As long as Anya Taylor Joy isn’t Camilla, I know why people gravitate towards this choice but I think she’d be wrong for the part. I think my ideal cast would involve a lot of actors who would have been right in the 80s or 90s, so it can never happen. I’d love to see 80s Robert Downey (around the age he was in Less Than Zero) as Richard.

[@VikingMuayThai]

As someone who is haunted by my past, I have also lived life to it’s fullest extent. Though to end it before I see my son become a man, would be something worse than tragedy.

[@maksymslonskyi92]

It would be death or tragedy , keep it alive mate

[@alexmur6411]

This is a great insight ❤️

[@foodchewer]

1:37:00 I like this a lot. Makes me think that Richard is the post-Kantian, the Hegelian, if you will, who realizes the trascendental, the noumenal, has always been immanent in the phenomenal. Richard turns away from the rapture of Platonic metaphysics and into the gulf of psychoanalysis, you might say. Ontologically speaking, you could say Richard rejects the kind of idealism of his "friends", the vulgar materialism of his day, and embraces a kind of dialectical materialism (forgive my borrowing from the Marxists) that would make a Zizek or a Nietzsche proud.

[@goodnightvienna8511]

I like the fact Tartt includes some characters from Bret easton Ellis' books in the secret history, i think if i remember, they are meant to be the same liberal arts college in Vermont that Clay attended in Less than Zero . Thanks for your content !...also, Rural Vermont now has a special place in my memory due to HP lovecraft and his brilliant " The Whisperer in Darkness " edit ..of course I think it's known that these two authors are friends

[@untimelyreflections]

Do you remember which characters overlap?

[@goodnightvienna8511]

@untimelyreflections I think it's a dealer, possibly a dealer and one other...I will have to check, I'm not sure , will edit accordingly after speed read of secret history 👍edit...actually I have been meaning to read it again because of recent Bacchae read.also, in BEEs' book ROA, Patrick Bateman's brother attends the college, so it's something he does too , recurring characters, even in Glamorama, Bertrand Ripleis and Victor Ward attend said campus

[@Dino_Medici]

Dog you are taking over. Major kallos thank you for ur work sir

[@МаэраСэдзи]

@essentialsalts First of all, I would really like to thank you for this video. I never read the book, but since I was curious regarding devine madness the algorithm made its magic happen and I clicked on the video. Half thought it, I had decided that I would buy the book the next morning. Fast forward 3 days I'm on page 211 where Henry mentions Phenobarbital. Curious as I am, I googled the drug. To my surprise I found that as one of the side effect it lists increase in suicidal tendencies. Since I watched the video I know what happens to Henry and the explanation you provided. But I believe it was mentioned on purpose. Or simply half of psychotropic drugs do as well. Cheers

[@apokalupsishistoria]

Something about this plot reminds me of John Crowley's "Little Big" for some reason. Wasn't familiar with TSH, thanks!

[@thunderthrust9273]

Ok, let us all gaze upon this EssentialSalt Abyss, shall we !

[@gus8310]

Could you do a little series on all the Greek gods and go in depth on them?

[@austinmackell9286]

Tangental thought here, but the great tragedy of my life, I think, is I never had a worthy mentor. I think it's common among thinkers of my generation, because the generations from where our mentors should have come could never quite look beyond themselves and into the future.

[@kevinbeck8836]

I had no mentor either. In fact, in all my life I found no older male I can say I looked up to. I used to consider this a lack in my life as well, but now? I define the world in my own terms. I can see in the eyes of my friends and peers that they are looking for a new mentor, a new authority, to guide and direct them. I don’t. Perhaps this gift is yours too 😊

[@celiacresswell6909]

That is because my generation was too distracted by pleasure: my apologies

[@apokalupsishistoria]

15:40 sounds also like the phenomenon of becoming literal, it's dream like because you the reader realize this scene in the minds eye. Dusty boring ink on page becomes another world.

[@bertrandrusynski9265]

Girard would have had a field day with this novel.

[@untimelyreflections]

Could’ve easily done two hours of straight Girardian analysis

[@bertrandrusynski9265]

@@untimelyreflections Triangular = Richard, Metaphysical = Henry, and Bunny as Rival/Scapegoat?

[@philoaviaticus]

Gee reminds me of the emotional roller coaster of college though this was to a much larger degree (of course as no one was as crazy as this…)

[@lorishu48103]

Wow reminds me of the movie Bully

[@totti6810]

what microphone do you use? i would very much like to purchase the same one.

[@kevinbeck8836]

43:38 wowza

[@MiloMay]

Heidegger when?

[@untimelyreflections]

Sooner than later

[@languagegame410]

lololo... the little Nazi philosopher from Messkirch is theHARDCOREsh*t!!... i'm most curious as to whether NPG has the patience, desire, &will to actually read BEING AND TIME in its entirety... or if he'll cheat and wing it... reading BEING AND TIME in its entirety is almost as much of an act of masochism as reading THE PHENOMENOLOGY OF SPIRT or THE CRITIQUE OF PURE REASON... but this is serious sh*t!... this is for real, maaaaaaaaan... lolo (i use my copies of the POS, CPR, & B&T as doorstops... forsooth, they do have a use beyond the first&last reading!!)

[@alexanderleuchte5132]

"...stunned and drunk with beauty."

[@fillingthefridge]

Hmm this made me consider to read an actual fiction, thank u~ Simone Weil when?

[@gorgonzolabarolo1235]

I still have this book in my bookshelf 😂

[@gus8310]

I wonder does the group of friends represent Dionysus in a particular form?

[@untimelyreflections]

In The Bacchae, Dionysus uses a bunch of different names for himself to designate different forces, different illusions he creates to deceive Pentheus. The idea of Dionysus existing in different aspects is there in the ancient writings

[@gus8310]

@@untimelyreflections it’s truly fascinating, the Greek mind.

[@sudabdjadjgasdajdk3120]

how do we know if the dionysian is an illusion?

[@foodchewer]

Of course it's an illusion. Isn't that the whole point? Also, the opposite is an illusion too though. Edit: I apologize, I realize I'm responding to a different question than the one you're asking. I realized it sounds more like you're asking: how do we know the world Dionysus presents to the characters isn't the "real " world? And to that, I would say I have no answer other than to say the world is many worlds.

[@perlefisker]

German philosophers were like most Westerners around Nietzsche's time seduced by a complete other culture, a cold, non-philosophical, non-sensual but rational, the Roman, and they completely missed that the Greek culture was born out of the Oriental. The philosophical and artistic traditions sprung from Asia Minor, and European (and American) academics could neither admit this, nor could the appreciate it with their cold, Roman Christianity.

[@thespiritofhegel3487]

Does she confirm the theory of nominative determinism?

[@untimelyreflections]

Wouldn't that mean that she ought to become a pastry chef or something

[@gus8310]

@@untimelyreflections I’d eat a Donna Tart

[@denniskozevnikoff1209]

TSH was such an amazing beautiful gripping book omg, if you are a high IQ person you must read it, it's kind of like reading schopenhauer or smtn

[@alecmisra4964]

Next up Terrifier 3.

[@untimelyreflections]

Lol

[@CoincidenceOfOpposites]

I have a request, it would great if the voice is a bit louder. It becomes difficult to hear at times. 🙏🏽

[@Wilsonrre]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZ_bc2iDgMyMaLs …The wind howls like a hammer, The night blows cold and rainy, My love she's like some raven At my window with a broken wing. Love Minus Zero/ No Limit, Bob Dylan

[@languagegame410]

"See there! Surprised and pale doth it stand-before the rosy dawn! For already she cometh, the glowing one,-HER love to the earth cometh! Innocence and creative desire, is all solar love! See there, how she cometh impatiently over the sea! Do ye not feel the thirst and the hot breath of her love? At the sea would she suck, and drink its depths to her height: now riseth the desire of the sea with its thousand breasts. Kissed and sucked WOULD it be by the thirst of the sun; vapour WOULD it become, and height, and path of light, and light itself! Verily, like the sun do I love life, and all deep seas. And this meaneth TO ME knowledge: all that is deep shall ascend-to my height!- Thus spake Zarathustra." (THUS SPAKE ZARATHUSTRA, Nietzsche)

[@languagegame410]

(tastelessly replying to my own comment) my Wisdom... o, my wild Wisdom... this old wild Wisdom!!...

[@nguyenquangminh4814]

My bookmarks 19:10

[@nguyenquangminh4814]

48:33 beauty quote

[@nguyenquangminh4814]

1:04:41

[@melissasmind2846]

Yummy

[@bryanutility9609]

Sleeping with a feminist is modern equivalent 😂

[@CriticallyRealist]

KZbin deleted my comment. Probably because I wrote "hegelian e-girls". To put it short: I personally don't see the appeal or all the fuss about Dionysus, old pagan gods, and other mysticisms that are still popular to this day on social media... I guess I'm more of rationalist. Thanks for the video, this was interesting!

[@VikingMuayThai]

I would pity you for not being able to connect to the ancient ways of your forefathers, but that would be very unnietzchean of me.

[@gegatodua2988]

@@VikingMuayThai you are not connecting with anything larper

[@untimelyreflections]

I did some videos about more rational figures such as Schopenhauer and Spinoza if interested. That being said some of my best friends are hegelian e-girls.

[@Of_infinite_Faith]

​@@gegatodua2988 its a western thing mostly. Im not from the west so i dont think I'll ever want to get personally connected to these "gods". Aside from the fact that they're horrible, they're more like ideas than characters and getting obsessed with ideas is dangerous.

[@agnosticpreacher6911]

I think you would have 5x the subscribers you have if you showed more of yourself, not saying at all that its what id prefer, but people like to put a face to a username. Your content is already great but youd also probably get a lot more views if you ditch the "one frame per two hours" visual style.

[@untimelyreflections]

its just the youtube upload of an audio podcast, it's not meant to have a visual element. I do upload some shorter videos with visuals, and they do tend to get more traction, but I feel the audio only format is the best for conveying information. It means I don't have to worry about anything else.

[@lewreed1871]

"Rimbaud" is pronounced "Rambo". 😊

[@marcinkrocki8114]

rimbo