The Secret Nature of the Rebel Alliance | Star Wars

[@Discotekh_Dynasty]

I really liked how Andor explored the actual mechanisms of imperial and rebel functionality. Really cool to see

[@lifeinthe6038]

Yeah especially how it actually cost money to get stuff

[@rexlumontad5644]

"I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? *Everything!"* - Luthen Rael

[@romanpaulin9680]

"Calm.... Kindness.... Kinship..... Love. I have given all chance for inner peace I made my mind in sunless space, I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up everyday to a equation I wrote for 15 years ago from which theirs only one conclusion... I'm damned from what I do.... my anger.. my ego.. my unwillingness to yield.. my eagerness to fight.. it set me down a path from which there's no escape... I yearn to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I look down... there's no longer any ground beneath my feet... wha- what is my sacrifice??" I also enjoyed this line as well

[@grom4818]

Seems like a complete ripoff of skullface dialogue from metal gear ground zeroes

[@CT_Phipps]

@@grom4818 Its not exactly an uncommon RL sentiment.

[@PsychonautSaiyan]

@@grom4818 shut your mouth

[@melelconquistador]

@@grom4818 As CT phipps said, it is not uncommon. Like minded people are abound.

[@quentin2776]

I think this is what Saw Gerrera's death scene in rogue one gets so right. As his partisans are fleeing from the destruction of Jedha, he stays and chooses to die, knowing he has done his part. With the arrival of Jyn, who he sees as representing the idealism of the rebellion ("Rebellions are built on hope"), and seeing the message from Galen telling of an unquestionably moral victory over the Empire on the horizon, he sees in them that his mission is complete, that the time for a man like him is over, the cause don't need him the way it once did. He's won, because now he can disappear and pass the torch and the credit to the idealists ("Go! Save the Rebellion! Save the dream!")

[@Ares99999]

The Idealists like Mon Mothma earned their OWN 'credit', fought their OWN battles and, unlike Saw and his bloodthirsty ilk, BUILT something. Pass the torch, bullshit. He had no 'torch' to pass. Just a destroyer who knew nothing else but violence, and was utterly forgotten like he deserved. A man who can only tear things down is not worth any sort of respect whatsoever.

[@martionman231]

@@Ares99999Nemik said “Weapons are tools. Those that use them are, by extension, functional assets that we must use to our best advantage.” You can’t build a house without a hammer and you can’t take down a fascist galaxy spanning dictatorship without men like Saw Gerrera.

[@eggtarts286]

You can afford the luxury to do everything right when you have the numbers and the means. But if you have those things, one wonders why you're conducting a revolution and not just fighting a conventional war to push the oppressing regime out. This may come as a surprise to people who believe in idealistic revolutions, but... Clean revolutions are not what real revolutions look like. They're tremendously more inefficient than they look. The exchange rate is something like 10 dead for every 1 of the enemy killed, a number that only favours the tyrant even more with greater gaps in technology (see Spanish guerilla efforts in Napoleon's peninsular campaign for an example if this). The only reason small rebel cells can profit from this sort of exchange, is that they can mix the local population into that exchange rate: 1 guerilla or less killed in actual combat, but 9 or more civilians killed in reprisal executions by the oppressing regime. Bandits, thieves, rogues, terrorists... To fill its ranks enough and force the oppressing regime to spread its resources thin, the Rebellion needs all of them. It needs them until planets like Mon Calamari and Ferrix grow so disillusioned and angry that they willingly and openly supply war materiel to the Rebellion's efforts. Until then, people like Saw remain key assets for the Rebellion.

[@SWPOTC1298]

Beautifully said. What people fail to understand is that Saw was just like any other imperial: willing to do anything to achieve his goals. Wearing grey uniforms doesn’t make one an Imperial, a lack of empathy and compassion does. If Saw had led the Rebel Alliance, the Empire would’ve been replaced by a New Empire.

[@eggtarts286]

It's important to never consider a war effort in a vacuum. You can say all you want about Saw's horrific tactics (which they are) and seriously questionable personal qualities, but the fact that they exist and are doing rebel attacks at all, is how the Empire ends up with more administrative overhead and less forces to dedicate to fighting other rebel groups- groups like Mon Mothma. You can assemble an ideologically pure rebel force and build a rebellion on it, yes. But you won't have enough to win. In war, you work with the forces you have, not the forces you want. The Rebellion did not have the luxury to choose an ideological force. Luthen having to stoop to speak personally to Saw at all to support Kreegyr's effort, and Saw's reply on the sort of ideologically diverse and radical forces that make up the rebellion, is an ample statement on this.

[@gavinsmith9871]

"There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. I know this already. Alone, unsure, dwarfed by the scale of the enemy. Remember this, Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There are whole armies, battalions that have no idea that they’ve already enlisted in the cause. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward. And remember this: the Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this, the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance will have flooded the banks of the Empires’s authority and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege. Remember this: Try." - Nemik

[@neofulcrum5013]

His manifesto is beautiful

[@SamaritanPrime]

Nemik is channeling Thomas Paine and I’m here for it!

[@philipphogerl140]

I was hoping to find this here

[@danielschoch4881]

same goes for Disney. its a good representation of the empire now.

[@19ars92]

More like - Tony Gilroy

[@generalsmite7167]

I mostly agree with this video but a lot of new cannon lore actually does a good job addressing the extremist element of the Rebellion. They were a key part of the early movement but as the Alliance was founded the extremist were pushed out or never joined. Saw cut ties with the Alliance as his actions were viewed as far to extreme which included civilian casualties and torcher. That being said darker parts of the Alliance were active as seen in rogue one but I think the lore points that as time went on those elements quickly dissipated.

[@boobah5643]

I'd argue if the title referred to the Rebellion as a whole, but it doesn't. The topic is quite clearly limited to the Rebel Alliance, which while the largest, most organized faction of the Rebellion was not the whole of it. The folks who weren't willing to play within Mon Mothma's rules either didn't join the Alliance or were pushed out. Saw is the most well known example in canon, and then there's Garm Bel Iblis in _Legends,_ although there the split was more personal (he'd come to believe Mon Mothma was angling for Empress) than methods.

[@generalsmite7167]

@@boobah5643 I hope they return Iblis to canon because he is such a good character.

[@marcbartuschka6372]

I think the truth is even more complex. You could see in Rebels (which is not THAT long before the battle of Yavin) that the "idealistic" parts of the Rebels (including Bail Organa and a former Jedi) still worked together with Saw on occasion long after he had commited quite a lot of warcrimes like letting his people murder injured Imperials. The leadership of the early rebels did look away from such crimes quite some time. Maybe it was more that on one (late) point Saw and his men were becoming more and more a problem which was the moment they tried to keep a distance. And even a idealistic rebel like young Leia has little to no problems to fake working as a kind of intergalactical aid worker while using the ships who are said to bringing food to people in need to arm insurgents - or kill a stormtrooper who try to defend her against what he thought was a attack against the princess and her property. Even idealists could commit warcrimes.

[@Heisen2420]

To Quote one Roman senator named Ciero who witnessed Caser's Civil Wars "In Times of War, The Law Falls Silent."

[@Gstrangeman96]

Nothing as much as the Roman Empire demonstrates what happens when a state loses control of its army. And when the hand loses control of the hammer the hand itself becomes just another nail. Bigger/Better Army Diplomacy kicks in and good policy goes from being a matter of what is morally/ethically good for your people, to what can keep the loyalty of the most/best men the longest.

[@808INFantry11X]

The thing that most people don't know about Cicero when he said that was he was speaking ironically rather then as truth he hated that thought it was spoken out of bitterness.

[@DoctorLoudonclear]

Andor did an excellent job bringing complexity to the rebellion and also the empire that most of Star Wars hasn’t done. As an American, I think this is important to understanding real historical revolutions. A lot of American history books often simplify the War for Independence as the Founding Fathers sitting around negotiating taxes with the evil King and Parliament only going to war after their requests were harshly denied. And while there is truth in that, a lot of textbooks and classes skip over the many complexities that led to and made up the American Revolution. Unfortunately, a lot of fictional stories do the same and oversimplify stories of revolution as “the good guys rebel against the evil tyrannical government”. I’m glad that shows like Arcane and Andor are breaking that mold.

[@laurencefraser]

yeah, there's truth in that... in that something that could be called negotiations if one were willing to completely fabricate the definition of 'negotiate' took place, and Parliament was involved in events, and the King existed. Turns out, once you get past the American nationalist propaganda, and look at records of actual events, a movie about the whole 'war of independence' that was even half way honest would basically be unable to avoid having the colonial rebels as the Bad Guys.

[@boobah5643]

@@laurencefraser I'm kind of interested in what alternate reality you hail from where the British weren't ruled by a king in the mid-to-late 18th century, the 13 Colonies failed to send diplomats to London, and the colonists' _cassus belli_ weren't various taxes enacted by Parliament and the enforcement actions to ensure those taxes were paid.

[@DoctorLoudonclear]

If I may say, what I’m trying to say is that the American Revolution was far more complex that what’s taught in high school. I think this video can also be applied to our Revolution; on one hand you had the Continental Congress who would be similar to the idealists; they saw war as a last resort and preferred to route of negotiation. It wasn’t until July 1776, well over a year after the revolution began, that they officially declared independence and war. Contrast this with radical groups such as Samuel Adam’s Sons of Liberty who were committing acts of violence and vandalization such as numerous taring and featherings, looting, and most famously the Boston Tea Party, well before organized fighting broke out in May of 1775. I’m not stating a definite opinion on either group, simply stating that the American Revolution was far more complex than the founding fathers signing the Declaration of Independence and fighting a war after.

[@eggtarts286]

As with every historical event, the truth is often more complicated than the tale the masses know. To acknowledge this fact isn't to revise history, but to understand that the world runs more deeply on nuances than people would often like to believe.

[@DOSFS]

To be fair, most school basic history books are simplified history to some degree. Maybe you get more perspective from some but most simply didn't have much time or pages to condense most of its history or nuisance into it anyway. If you want more either you gonna have to learn on dedicated history class or by yourself by outside book.

[@Kubinda12345]

This is the part that canon does much better than Legends. In Legends the Rebellion were just the plain good guys except the Diversity Allience who however appeared only after the Endor and were solely composed of non-humans. But in canon you've people like Saw Gerrera, Luthen Rale (both humans) or Ferren Barr who aren't good by any sense but they are very realistic and essential to the rebellion's success.

[@Gstrangeman96]

Did Legends really have a Rebel faction straight up called the Diversity Alliance?! lol. Imagine the internet commentary if that showed up in the Disney canon these days...

[@KillerOrca]

@@Gstrangeman96 No, the Diversity Alliance was in opposition to the New Republic. They appeared exclusively in the Young Jedi Knights series, and were basically stopped through the handiwork of six teenagers and a droid.

[@eight-cloudspurple5871]

@@Gstrangeman96 The internet would blow up lol.

[@marcbartuschka6372]

Not always. The rebels in legends had their fair share of infighting what is not really a signal that they were all the good guys, and of course they comitted warcrimes. After the palace of Palpatine was stormed the supporters of the rebels murdered every member of the court or people who worked there they could lay their hand on (even if it may be the fashion designer), anyway of gender, age or race (so it is said in Children of the Jedi). Yes, such crimes were not described in detail, but they were mentioned once and then. And of course legends did show imperials who were not just the bad guys but who were decent people while fighting on for a decade or longer after Palps was killed (like Gilad Pellaeon).

[@somerandomdude343]

@@marcbartuschka6372 To add to the point in the x-wing novel the bacta war rogue squadron steals bacta convoys from civilians and even bombs a factory. Wedge is fully aware of the fact that their actions make them into pirates and raiders and that the only thing that stops them from being the bad guys is that they take responsibility for the damage they cause. the bacta they steal goes to people who could never have afforded it who are in desperate need of help

[@rexlumontad5644]

Bail Organa being left out: "Bruh."

[@connorgolden4]

@Darth Revan Bail is hard to place imo. He’s an idealist but never shied away from the idea of war and was like luthen in how he organized and aided other groups. In both canon and legends he was resisting damn near right of the bat in violent actions. Albeit covertly and not always using his personal military forces, unlike Saw for example or others like him who were very in your face. Or by aiding and supplying other groups. And building up a network of spies and couriers to do this all. So he’s hard to place tbh.

[@Ares99999]

@darthrevan1281 War can be very civilized if fought by civilized people. There's a world of difference between those who take surrender and accept prisoners, and those who give no quarter and kill everyone. There is a world of difference between those who strictly adhere to their mission and those who find enjoyment in killing. Not all soldiers are cruel, some will abandon the fight rather than descend into pointless cruelty, while others will be cruel and savage. You're being very insulting to a lot of people who served and are serving right now by calling them all wholesale savages.

[@connorgolden4]

@Darth Revan We literally see in Andor how she’s not super blood thirsty and not super keen on violent acts. She has doubt about war and all as we saw when she argued with Stellan Skarsgard’s character. She was skittish about the attack on Aldani. She would go more pragmatic eventually but she was still on the idealist side and was bigger on the political side of the rebellion than military side. Bail was fighting from the onset, building an organization and connecting rebel cells and forming what would become the core of the rebellion. Also while you’re sorta right about war and being civilized, you’re not entirely right. Not even the most moral and virtuous of armies will be perfect even if they set rules. They will be broken by some. But many do set rules, they’re not cruel, they don’t kill prisoners, or commit mass murder and rape etc. So there are those who can be as civilized as one can be in war and those who are awful.

[@christopherg2347]

The Idealists *were* the face of the rebellion at Yavin, because the other two Groups died out just before Yavin. Saw Guererra was never recognized by the idealists. And died to the Death Star on Jeddah. While the Pragmatists died in that charge on Scarif, trying to atone for the pragmatic things they had to do up to that point.

[@pll3827]

Tragically, without the Pragmatists, the Idealists overdid their idealism and contributed to the rise of the First Order. It was Mon Mothma who moved to demilitarize the New Republic, which led to the tragedy of the sequels.

[@LordVader1094]

@@pll3827 I mean there's not much Mon Mothma could've done against bullshit plot armour like 10,000 planet killers

[@ankhmorpok1497]

@@pll3827 What First Order? In my head canon the sequel trilogy doesn't exist!

[@Ares99999]

@@pll3827 Oh please, that was bullshit, like much of the sequels.

[@awddfg]

It took the sacrifice of the 2 for the idealists to win

[@Torus2112]

"Thirty men..." "Plus Krieger." "For the greater good?" "Call it what you will." "Let's call it... war."

[@garyfrombrooklyn]

Tony Gilroy saw this dynamic and created this series to show just how difficult it is to fight something as gargantuan as the Empire. I love your analysis and before Andor, it would’ve been incomplete without the characters established in this series.

[@18Krieger]

Andor expanded on the much needed diversity of the Rebellion. Who are the people that served the cause? Their motivations.

[@nicktechnubyte1184]

As we're all aware, keeping secrets in the Star Wars universe always causes an untold amount of lives to be lost!

[@markfergerson2145]

Just as in real world rebellions, the rebels are better described by Venn diagrams of characteristics than trying to assign pure motives to any one group. Same for individuals in those groups; they're no more homogeneous than the overall Rebellion.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Andor is the first time in a very long time that the Rebel Alliance has felt like an actual rebellion.

[@pendragon0905]

The Rebellion was a morally complex organization. What about the Jedi Order? Remember that in the comic books, there was the Galactic Triumvirate, which consisted of the Galactic Alliance, the Fel Dynasty, and the New Jedi Order.

[@shmee123ful]

You can understand why, in both the old EU and Disney the new Republic that formed out of the rebel alince was so gun shy about restablishing and developing their military. While people like Liea and others are and were idealist I suspect a lot of the higher leader ship new how close they came to just becoming the empire again with a new coat of paint After all how many rebellions have sought to over throw of a triant to only find themselves replacing that same tryant

[@viktoriaalden3452]

That also adds a nice layer of much needed complexity to how the first order could rise to power again. The new republic was so fearful of becoming what the empire was, that they let a threat grow right under their noses. It reminds me of the paradox of tolerance

[@shmee123ful]

@@viktoriaalden3452 indeed or the imperial reminat in the old EU

[@somerandomdude343]

But in the EU the republic did keep its military and even expanded on it in places. They had no issue with increasing the military as long as they did not use it as the empire did.

[@LordVader1094]

@@viktoriaalden3452 FO doesn't really have complexity. They're just given huge space guns to wipe out the Republic in 30 minutes lol

[@kungalexander829]

The new republic had the most powerful navy in thte old eu

[@HolyknightVader999]

Even in the old EU, you have shady rebels like Borsk Fey'lya, the Bothan leader who only supported the Alliance to gain political power. Once the New Republic starts ruling from Coruscant, his political ambitions become clear, and you can clearly see him either antagonizing or trying to manipulate the OT heroes. To the point where they began to miss fighting Imperials, since at least, they can just shoot Imperials, but they can't shoot Borsk, because he's technically on the same side as the good guys, it's just that he's not a good person.

[@KillerOrca]

And when finally having achieved the role he wished for, when confronted by the Yuuzhan Vong, he basically turned his entire race into a blood-fued against them and blew up his own office, taking himself and 25,000 Vong warriors to a firey end.

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@KillerOrca Which became a problem when the Vong eventually surrendered.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

Some of my favorite Rebel Groups in Media: The Banished - Well-known for their extensive Logistics systems through easy-to-set-up mining and production facilities wherever they go, and tactically flexible groups capable of using any firearms they find. This is unlike the Covenant, who were heavily reliant on Supplies from Ships and used only their own Sanctioned Weapons due to religious limitations. Currently their main enemies is the Created Ecumene, a decentralized collection of immortal AI's with extensive use of Forerunner tech. The Vox Populi - Started by Daisy Fitzroy, a domestic slave to Lady Comstock, she witnessed the Lady's murder by the hands of her Husband, so she was blamed for it due to the racial prejudices of Columbia. Fitzroy was an unrecognized genius, and using her intellect, she formed the Anarcho-Communist Resistance Faction of The Vox Populi (French: The People's Voice) her army struggled to survive due to overwhelming numbers from the Founders Army, but in another world, they gained the upper-hand.... The Kraiseau Circle - In real life, the Kraiseau Circle was an oppositional Party to H1tler's Naz1's. They were a collection of Social Democrats, Religious Socialists, and some Communists who wanted to oppose the Regime in any peaceful Political way they could. In the Wolfenstein Universe where the Axis won, the Kraiseau Circle grew into an armed resistance group based in the Germania Catacombs. Eventually their base was discovered by the SS, but their surviving fighters fleed to a recently captured Submarine, using Helicopters they had recently captured.

[@aardappelmethoed1151]

Its Kreisau circle not Kraiseau

[@Alexwright12]

Vox Populi is latin not french

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@aardappelmethoed1151 Real smartasses down here..

[@inquisitorgarza312]

The Rebel Alliance couldn’t fight against the overwhelming power that the Galactic Empire had, and that meant that the Rebellion had to use hidden tactics, cruelty, and deception to fight against the Galactic Empire Military War-machine with just as much ruthlessness as the Imperial Cruelty.

[@polishscribe674]

Like gods in Gothic games. Innos, the law and order, but a slavery. Beliar, chaos and unnatural beings, but also freedom. And Adanos, the balance between these two and personification of wisdom.

[@Negativvv]

The excellence of Andor makes videos and discussions like this possible.

[@Palpatine001]

Just remember, the Star Wars universe calendar is labelled BBY and ABY. Who knew it would be a plucky group of "freedom fighters" that would mark such a pivotal moment the calendar would be changed to reflect it.

[@samueltitone5683]

And the BBY/ ABY thing has always been stupid (completely setting aside the headache of actually trying to tell time in space). Why that battle instead of the battle of Endor where Palpatine died, or the battle of Jaku which actually ended the war?

[@Palpatine001]

@@samueltitone5683 Wookipedia goes into length why BBY/ABY was used. It was considered the most pivotal moment in history since the founding of the Old Republic over 10,000 BBY or whatever the date is for that one. Endor was considered the end of the 3.5 year formality in bringing down Palpatine that started with the Battle of Yavin. Bit like in our actual time we use BC/AD (or BCE now) however Christ was born 32BC and died 4AD. World War II's date varies, the 1939 date is the European Theatre start but either 1941 or 1932ish is the Pacific theatre start depending which moment you use. If you believe in the Grand War theory, the World War started in 1870 between The British Empire and Germany (with the 1854 Crimean war the prelude) and finishing in August 1945. Or in in Star Trek the Federation uses the Star Date system to which the other powers adapt. The point being and as Obi Wan says, it all comes down to a certain point of view. And the New Republic and later Galactic Alliance used BBY and ABY given they were the natural successors of the Rebel Alliance - the ultimate victors..

[@kungalexander829]

The calendar was never use in universe It was fanmade

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

I'm really excited for Andor season 2.

[@UnknownOps]

There's always something interesting to see the conflict between governments and rebel groups *IF* done right, I don't like the case of Bad Government vs Good Rebels and vice versa, I like it when there is complexity to the reasons they are fighting because it gives them reasons of their own on why they are fighting each other and it means there's a bigger world, a world in which they play a part even though the war they are waging is it's own bubble.

[@donquijoker9871]

Among Imperials, however, the distinction is blurrier because there's no point in being pragmatic when you have absolute power, this means the most practical course of action is also the most ideal and radical. We do see some debates inside the ISB on how to procede with rebels but it has more to do with who gets to climb up the ladder in Imperial hierarchy than actually keeping orders or even destroying the rebels. And while Syril does seem to be an idealist, trying to enforce order from outside the system itself even if it has negative consequences for him, he's only making this sort of radical choices because the Imperial hierarchy has already rejected him

[@sinister802]

I love this show cause there is always a line you have to walk as a pragmatist and you can see it happening in front of your eyes that there is no good or bad but choices and consequences

[@chronus4421]

I very much enjoy the angle you took on this one. Stellaris Invicta

[@jon6309]

Very interesting analysis in breaking this topic down. I always felt the Rebel Alliance was a very complex organization to explain and compare an analogy to unlike other forms of government in the Star Wars Galaxy. According to the sources I have read the rebel alliance was more of a loose confederation of those who opposed the Empire. It gets more complex when political figures of planetary governments are part of the rebellion because some citizens within their planets or sectors still enlisted in serving the Empire. In fact prior to the destruction of Alderran it was not uncommon for citizens of Alderran to participate and serve the Empire while Bail and Leia Organa who governed their world secretly supported the rebels.

[@yourbuddyunit]

Andor and rogue one taught me one important lesson i hope GW doesn't make the mistake of overlooking if 40k ever actually makes a show. That is the fact that a good guy bad guy narrative is crafted into the starkest and most believable when there is a contradiction and complexity of character motivation without being unconvincing and shallow. There has to be a mirror, for every luke a cassian, every mothma a saul. Because no presentation of an ideology can truly be representative of the human condition and be captivating unless you know just how terrifying and abominable the good guys are. It means nothing to tell us a villain is bad. What speaks volumes is the ruthless and deplorable the actions of the worst good guy. The guy that will AUTOMATICALLY be exiled and ostracized after the major unifying conflict has the potential to be far more interesting than the conflict in many instances. That guy tells you more about the good guys, than the most valorus and morally just actions of the paragons of the same group. The levels of degenerate depravity and morally repugnant of behaviors are simple baseline survival traits on the gentlest of worlds. Unimaginable crimes against the population that our 21st century sensibilities would be par for the course for the MOST benevolent of the inquisiton, and the simple of administratum ministers. So, its probably best that a 40k show will be released with the first nuclear fusion plants, always 10y in the future.

[@meh8817]

Happy turkey day everybody... Also nice episode

[@Striker163videos]

Never has a Star Wars show so thoroughly explored Totalitarianism in power, along with its peculiar ideology of total domination from within through the mass atomization of the whole people, brought about from isolation and erosion of the public trust, and the total elimination of spontaneity in people's lives. These are the preconditions for turning the actions of every person into reactions so one person cannot be defined separately from all the others. Under such conditions, resistance becomes near impossible as not 1o people can come together and form bonds of trust and any semblance of common humanity becomes harder and harder to identify as thinking is replaced by conditioned responses. Totalitarian power, in the views of its leaders, is basically created through the organization of isolated people who are atomized into individual units whose coming together, essentially, draw power, similarly to how friction or galvanic currents generate electricity. As a result, these movements tend to openly defy rationality by adhering to an endless and structureless momentum that must always remain in motion. The only way to enforce this kind of continuous mass momentum is through constant terror and constant purges. Violence, intolerance, and hatred are not based on any constitutionalized set of principles; it’s simply what allows an atomized group of people to remain organized and provides the momentum so necessary for Totalitarian organizations to carry out their murderous and dominating objectives for dominations sake alone. And never has a show more embodied that the best defense against such an ideology is spontaneity and love because the only thing that holds it together is hate and terror.

[@randomusernameCallin]

I am worried with how too many show makers are pushing the Radicals as the only part. Many current writers can only write "dark" characters I like seeing a shift from radicals to idealists as the rebellion went on. It does make the most sense.

[@ProvostZarakov]

Bruh of course there is a shift over time as the radicals will be the ones doing the heavy lifting as the idealists "plan" is safe rooms far from the fighting...it inevitable really

[@neofulcrum5013]

“Oppression breeds Rebellion”

[@zack4915]

"The ends may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the ends" - Leon Trotsky

[@BiomechanicalBrick]

ohhh is that an ice pick - trotsky

[@deadsalmon4115]

I feel like "The Rebellion" and "The Alliance to Restore the Republic" are two separate entities, or moreover one was a subsection of the other.

[@keith6706]

You could look at it like this: there was a revolution that overthrew the Russian czar in 1917. The group that eventually came out on top, namely Lenin's Communists, were merely one part of it.

[@protoclone138]

You can't have a rebellion without getting your hands dirty

[@DABViktor]

Thank you the Video and the English subtitle.

[@manuelgrothe608]

2:19 Andor season 2 should be aired on ABC Network on Saturday mornings and give Disney+ a nice good summer break

[@depreseo]

Just throwing this in there aswell - this breakdown mostly focuses on the rebel events around 5bby (the setting for Andor, obviously, because the series has come to an end and we've seen greater exploration if these different facets of the rebellion). But Sidious himself was aware of the danger a rebellion lead by I dividuals who embody all three of these facets could cause for his empire early on. In 14BBY Cham Syndula of the free ryloth movement was the leader of the largest, most organised and heavily armed rebell cell in the empire. He was a politician but also a vetren if the clone wars having seen CIS, Republic and then later imperial occupations if his home world. He represented all three of these ideologies, and sidious knew that if his small planetary rebellion (armed with decommissioned CIS vulture droids and ships) would grow strong enough to overthrow the I oerial occupation of Ryloth, Syndula would become a rallying point, a fighting idealist with practical tactics, that the galaxy would fall behind. So what does Sidious do? He personally leads an attack on the movement, foxing the free ryloth movement to play their hand before they're millitarilky able to do so (because assassinating the emperor is not something you get many opportunities to do) and in doing so forces diminishes Syndula to the point where instead of a figure embodying all three faces he now represents the reactionaries like saw - a rebel leader better down to the point where the only victories he can achieve are the symbolic ones (as we see in his appearance in star wars rebels with his much diminished rebel cell with its smaller resources). I'm not just mentioning this to say, "hey if you haven't done so go read "lord's if the sith" it's a good read - not amazeballs, but a simple read", but also to highlight that it's not the rebellions that the empire fears, but them uniting into a single force. Without that unity groups like saws would eventually burn out on a battlefield dying for a cause long forgotten by both it's members and those putting them down. Mothma and the idealists would be entrapped, watched and eventually exposed and made examples of for the sake of "galactic harmony", and figures such as Luthen wiuld just be stuck in the shaddows with no other pawns, knight or rooks to play. Each facet is needed for a rebel victory and we can see, come the end of the war where figures such as Saw and Luthen have vanished from the rebellion that a group consisting of just one of these facets (the idealists) is not sustainable with the 2nd Republic reforming but falling to the same sins as the first - Mon mothmas post endor actions idealistically being sound and understandable (surrendering the supream powers of the chancellor, and shrinking the millitary into a smaller elit force Vs the current rebellions "we'll take every farm bit whose never been in a cockpit and put them in an X-wing because we need pilots" mentalit) but they lack the perspectives that a) the 2nd Republic was formed whilst the galaxy was still at war and a chain of command was still needed, and b) yes a smaller elite force is better to a larger amature one, but when is the Republic going to have the chance to train this force whilst still fighting the imperial remants? It is funny to think that by the end of the Galactic civil war it is Leia, out if all the rebel leadership, who comes to represent all three aspects of the early rebellion - a figure who at the beginning was an idealist, and whose perspective didn't change much over the course if the war, but who found herself fighting in a rebellion where the figures such as Saw gurera and Luthen were dying out, making her seem like more of a radical compared to the reality which is that the idealists were growing but without a counterbalance to keep them in check.

[@mattworthy5247]

I love that Andor has the rebellion actually doing stuff without having to be pushed into it by a protagonist. Rogue One and Rebels were pretty bad about that and it bugged me.

[@giorgiomezzanzanica3693]

I would argue that Luthen is pretty much a protagonist, and on the rebel side of the story he is the one calling the shots for most of the time

[@mattworthy5247]

@@giorgiomezzanzanica3693 I guess that's true, though Andor certainly makes it less bothersome

[@moritamikamikara3879]

Call it imperialism if you like... "I had friends on that death star..."

[@mr.factoid105]

If I was to add another group it would probably be the scoundrel: mercenaries that just so happened to be getting their credits from rebel cells. though scoundrels don't seem to last long in the rebellion.

[@Jorigin]

Hey The Templin Institute, can you do something about Hunt Showdown? Maybe the American Hunters Association? Or the demonic entities within the bayou?

[@Lumen_Obscurum]

I would actually argue differently. I would argue that both Mon Mothma and Saw Gerrera were idealists. Opposed? Definitely. But both saw their path as the only path to success, rather than a single option in a grander web. Luthen is a radical, he will use every tool no matter how despicable in order to achieve his goals. He gave up his chance at living in the light in order to let the light shine in the first place, in fact he was forgotten by the rebels in time as his actions were what actually kept the rebellion alive. Cassian is a pragmatist, he sees a situation and tries to find the best way out of it. Indeed, he tried to convince his adpotive/kidnapping mother Maarva to become a pragmatist with him, rather than the radical she used to be. Cassian only ever acted to get to his next day, rather than to create a new day until the end of the series. During Maarva's speech he realises that just getting to the next day is irrelevant if you can't make the next day count. When he handed himself over to Luthen, one of the reasons Luthen was so happy was he saw that the pragmatists were coming around to rebellion. It meant that finally the avalanche has begun, and that ultimately the rebellion would be successful as he had hoped. Plus, Cassian is a very powerful asset just in terms of what he knows, what he has seen, and what he can do. He knows a lot about maintaining and refurbishing parts, he has military knowledge likely from his Separatist adoptive parents, he can look at a situation and know where to put the lever, and most vital of all he can inspire people to do impossible things like escape from Narkina 5.

[@jaywaii3187]

Very good alternative take!

[@mingchoi8369]

Looking at this video on the different aspects of the Rebellion, I can't help but wonder if both the Galactic Resistance and/or the reimagined New Republic would've had to deal with radicalized extremists who would frequently resort to methods of mass destruction that would genuinely horrify even Saw Gerrera types.

[@obiwankenobi4252]

“You cannot make a revolution in white gloves” -V. I. Lenin

[@59rlmccormack]

Its good to have layers.

[@seancarney3024]

You should do a video about the Federation.

[@deepseastonecore3017]

Happy thanksgiving 😊

[@captain61games49]

always love this dives into law

[@goodlight4113]

"Hidding behing 40 attrocities, rather then 1 incient." - sounds like modern politicians.

[@LordTelperion]

I'm looking forward to seeing the Alliance's version of the Continental Congress assembling and managing the early revolution. Mon Mothma as John Adams and Ackbar as George Washington.

[@Gamer1990100]

Even some rebels did war crimes especially the Sol Goralla (sry for misspell) group.

[@votemonty1815]

4th Column: The Profiteers (i.e. Canto Bight)

[@Vantud391]

Because of the secrecy Luthen will not be known and be remembered despite being one of the very first founder of the Rebellion. Such a shame.

[@VCMEntertainments]

As we learned from Guerrera the Republic needed and supported him in the Clone Wars to harm the confederacy with irregular Warfare. As the Republic Army was allready too far stretched to fight at all Fronts. But the moment the Empire was established the first Task for the remaining Clone Troopers was to dispose Guerrera and his Insurgents and most likely other former "Allies". With the rather short lived empire most Insurgents will most likely remember the last Govermental Change and take precautions before the New Republic get the same taste of power.

[@jeremy1860]

Remember the days when knowing who was good and evil in this franchise was easy? 😅

[@gavinsmith9871]

It still is. Despite how gray the Rebels have become recently the Empire is so, sooo, much worse.

[@pattonramming1988]

Politics is the art of trading great evils for lesser evils

[@LordVader1094]

It's still very easy to do so. Did you forget the horrific Imperial prison that individuals are thrown into and are never let out for just walking suspiciously, using the screams of dead children to torture people, and building superweapons to wipe out planets with billions of inhabitants? This series has done more to clarify exactly why the Empire is evil in a way nothing other than the original trilogy's Death Star did.

[@wandiriswan6116]

I hope you do a video on the world government soon. One piece is so underrated

[@itsukikawashima5490]

Fight the Empire!💪

[@waffenwafflesreal]

Do a video on the Free Planets Alliance.

[@Baraz_Red]

Linguistic detail and very common in real-life : since one can be radically non violent, or radically this or that, I suggest the proper term is extremist. The non ethnical rebels you describe are extremists. nb: I won't attempt to define terrorism, as that is a whole basket of crabs.

[@Mimas2115]

I think you'd like the universe of Stand Still, Stay Silent

[@gsuaveyt]

Aw cmon, dont you know? We dont get fooled again

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Honestly, I am surprised that you haven't done The Expanse yet. Long and conflicted politics, a deep history, plenty of factions and conspiracies.

[@TemplinInstitute]

We have, just nothing too recently.

[@Norsilca]

Didn't that conversation between Luthen and Saw Gerrera at the end show that Luthen was more ruthless than Saw?

[@robertagu5533]

Well... Andor in Rogue One.. at I'm guessing the "end" of his series WASN'T really left with much choice. ISB an the Stormtroopers an others woulda tortured the hell outta Andor's contact had either or both got caught. An already hurt said contact woulda in time probably been broke an Andor knew it... Knowing the Empire after they had what they wanted he'd either probably been sent to a place, to die anyway, went to a place where he'd WISHED he'd died or Andor ironically killed him, or simply been discreetly executed or experimented on somehow after they got what they wanted or figured out he gave them all he could or knew nothing to start with.. some of them were sadistic AF an woulda just delighted in torturing an brutally interrogating even KNOWING he knew nothing just cuz he was a Rebel... An helping run them into a literal corner probably sealed that guy's fate

[@Fliuck]

It would be more direct to say: "Utilitarians are the singularly most useful of all operatives"

[@DylanoRevs]

Interesting video idea: Rhodes Island from Arknights (From a science-fantasy world)

[@Jarulf4477]

War...war never changes

[@AlonzoTompkins]

Still remember seeing people who hate the fact that the rebel alliance is portrayed this way. Even though it was always a thing that would happen since that’s how a rebellion works.

[@samalvey8168]

I personally would have been a combination of the idealist and the pragmatist. I would be motivated to resist the Empire out of moral protest against its actions and see the restoration of democracy and freedom to the galaxy, but realise that the only way to bring the Empire down would be to fight it in armed conflict. Blowing up the Death Star is said by Imperial loyalists to be an unforgivable act of mass-murdering terrorism against their legitimate government and indeed, two million people perished in its destruction, but the Death Star was a military installation intended to enforce a rule of tyranny via fear, planetary destruction and genocide, a fate it inflicted on Alderaan and its two billion inhabitants.

[@SimonTheExile]

Extremism isn't Radicalism, Radicalism isn't Extremism. Yet a dangerous marriage.

[@Infernal460]

The CIS Reborn.

[@nickf.3529]

Hello everyone

[@bjarkev1296]

Well... All the star wars movies have always looked like rebel propaganda. Good guys fighting the evil and always winning against impossible odds. Never actually doing the dirty work needed to topple a galactic empire.

[@TheInedibleHulk]

Not a SINGLE Andorian in the Andor show. Talk about false advertising...

[@forrestpenrod2294]

Where was Shran? I kept looking for him...

[@eight-cloudspurple5871]

More false advertising by Disney!

[@ironmongooseplays734]

this is a rebellion... i rebel"

[@carsoncasmirri3874]

Here’s the thing. Ideals are clean, war is a messy and bloody business

[@falkyrie5228]

Cool vid, but what about Gundam?

[@vinniedavy6575]

Do the tripods from war of the worlds 2005

[@shanenolan5625]

I always thought it strange. Princess leia should have been Queen after alderann. Even if its in exile. ,( Queen in exile )

[@LiamDennehy]

Although they seem to aim for different audiences, it might have helped to bring in some examples of the categories from Rebels. - If not for the mediating influence of his crew, Zeb Orrelios would absolutely be a pure radical given how much he is motivated by the pain of his personal losses and constant enjoyment of simply making his enemy suffer. - Kanan Jarrus tries to be the Idealist and especially as a role model for Sabine and Ezra, but necessity makes him have to compromise more than he'd like. - Hera Syndulla is a perfect pragmatist, often having to explain to Sabine and Ezra how their efforts are helping or hindering the greater cause, keeping a watchful eye on Zeb, and coordinating with the wider rebellion, while till getting her hands dirty. I think the way the main characters of that show occupied this spectrum was one of the reasons it really worked for me.

[@LucasYoung-uc2ek]

By the original trilogy the idealists seemingly won out as they had the main assets

[@samueltitone5683]

I don’t care how good the show turns out to be. You can’t make me give a shit about Cassian Andor.

[@TheGreatGonzales777]

This is the exact narrative that Disney has created about the rebellion that makes me hate it

[@EnPriBri]

Maybe I'm just a radical, but I don't see the greyer parts of the rebellion as "eviler" perse. I think causing insurrection in systems that inherently, intentionally hurt people is fine and essential to making more idealistic parts of rebellion function. Rebels all have to kill people to win so killing the deep cogs that keep things running is just as important as doing the heroic thing of chopping off the evil head. You can only get to the negotiation table by knocking the big bad off his throne which isn't going to come through political actions within his system or saying "be nice" in the face of his pro-genocide propaganda platform. The only pathway to tolerance from an intolerant base is not tolerating intolerance. The purpose of all war is the peace that follows. Even the ideologues running with squads of defectors shoot 99-100 imps they see.

[@nicktechnubyte1184]

And just like the Old Republic, it too was doomed to fail!

[@tauIrrydah]

Leia is a pragmatist.

[@cowbeanboi412]

ඞ

[@kamerondonaldson5976]

i presume leia organa was part of the pragmatist group?

[@interogatorasmodai]

i wanna see a crossover between the rebels from star wars ans the traitor of 40k juste to see the face of the rebels lol

[@mpalfadel2008]

The rebel source book detailed the formation and structure of the rebel alliance The Corellian Treaty was the founding document I really dislike all the revisionism

[@5Amigos32]

I know I'm late but I disagree with your take that the saw gererra group aren't politically motivated and also acting solely because they were harmed. They are politically motivated in the same way that mon mothma is they have a moral objection to authoritarianism the difference is twofold one that they either don't believe that the empire can be defeated politically and peacefully and on that they are proven right. Mon mothma is forced to flee and become a military commander. The second way they differ is in ultimate goal Mon Mothma's goal is to restore the republic while saw views the republic as just the empire with a different coat of paint. Which they were right about too as the new republic is impotent against the imperial remnants and the first order

[@TheLurker1647]

Now tell me about all the myriad factions that would have supported the Empire.

[@B4umkuchen]

Will you accept a just but tyrannical dictatorship in the present or rebel against it with corrupt cruelty for freedom in the future?

[@incognitoredacted4451]

hey templin, thanks for video about titanfall for these videos about half life and the nature of the galactic rebellion, i hope you could add a few videos if you guys got the time to make it dor these worlds and factions... the militia (titanfall) the aprican empire (noughts and crosses) and comstar (battletech/mechwarrior) thanks and advanced merry xmas...

[@explodingwolfgaming8024]

Commenting 4 algorithm

[@Arnaere]

The radicals are the pragmatists.