Obi-Wan Kenobi Ruined the Empire (But Andor Fixed It)

[@RedcoatTrooper]

The heist crew was undercover for months planning the operation, they built a "kill house" To train on they had a great plan revolving around a once every few years event, they had an inside man an officer highly placed, the guards were a skeleton crew of backwater garrison troups. And they still lost half the crew, that is real consequences.

[@Adrian-dl9nb]

ABSOLUTELY. In Kenobi they did it like it was just another Tuesday.

[@shittingtoothpaste4209]

Not to mention rebels lmao

[@Gibblets411]

Except the rebels just looked like a bunch of incompetent idiots. Andor was trash. They couldn't be bothered to use the established sound E-11s have had since the OT.

[@Solstice261]

And those that survived broke up shortly after, one of them wanted to run with the money and was killed and andor was essentially a merc so really only one. This really feels like the beginning of the rebellion as rag tag group being financed by a rich senator and directing small attacks on different area instead of the massive organized army of good usually depicted. I like this morally grey rebellion and wished we had more seasons

[@alexwinter3752]

How did anything u mentioned about the beginning of the rebellion make them morally grey

[@zookboy5714]

I love that Andor showed the TIE Fighters as actual threats. Given that TIEs have been notoriously weak in the star wars films, showing them as a major threat is a great way of displaying the change in scale

[@laisphinto6372]

rewatch the OT before spreading that lie especially rewatch the battle of yavin. every rebel who wasnt reeinforced with plot armor was fighting for their life and from 30 ships going in only 3 made it out also the ties werent outnumbering the x wings they fought as equals and were beaten bad by the TIEs

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

When looking at them objectively, they are ultra-lightweight, nimble, and fast interceptors that make a terrifying screech when flying. They should be the ultimate terror weapon of the Empire, not just cannon fodder

[@MandoWookie]

​@@alpacaofthemountain8760in the X wings books(old canon) the TIEs were both disposable cannon fodder, and terrifying threats. It's pointed out that most of the senior Rebel pilots are former TIE pilots who defected, and are flying fighters that are one-on-one better. So they have an advantage, and the thing about TIEs is you are never in a one-on-one fight against them. Even then when you are a good pilot you can do things with a TIE that an X-wing can't match in a dog fight. They are like the Japanese Zeros they are partially inspired by, all the way down to the pilot training and way they are treated. Most TIE pilots don't live long enough to really take advantage of its positives, but the pilots that do are terrifyingly effective at taking out ships that by all rights they should be outclassed by. Especially if the X wings are flown by rookie pilots who don't know they true capabilities of a TIE and underestimate them.

[@bclaas]

@@laisphinto6372 Pretty sure he is contrasting them to Disney TIE's, as in they are a return to the formidable TIEs of the OT.

[@zidanerizalalghifaryalghif3248]

@@laisphinto6372 yeah that's what i thought the fact that only two x wings and one y wing survive the battle shows how competent the empire is if it's not ruled by greedy officers and the death star of course has a stupid amount of ties so they would out number the rebels 10 to 1

[@lumeronswift]

It's also interesting how the Imperial base in Andor was relatively low-priority, quite small in scale and importance on a planet with pacifist natives... but Fortress Inquisitorious was a top-priority secret base where several of the Empire's top brass frequently showed up.

[@joshuamueller3206]

4 dozen soldiers with guns is not a trivial matter. They want to do their jobs and go home and outnumber you by a factor of seven. Only plus the rebels in Andor had is that their attack was completely unknown.

[@LuckyAceCard]

@@joshuamueller3206 english

[@tobyjack1238]

Not to mention that in canon, the Fortress had a big security breach just a few years earlier in Fallen Order. But now that Obi Wan's there, they are much less prepared for someone busting in since they have way less security.

[@lingricen8077]

Also, look at the faces of those imperials when the rebels attacked - this was before the rebellion had a foothold, the Imperials are absolutely flabbergasted at what is happening

[@Tony-.]

@@lingricen8077 The peripheral world is immersed in local wars. The most incompetent people were sent to such wilderness as if they were in exile. This happened in every empire and even in the United States itself during the Indian War. They even had private PMCs replacing soldiers.

[@fluffywolfo3663]

What I like about Andor's portrayal of the Empire is that the Empire is portrayed in such a... _normal_ way. Because of the destruction of Alderaan, writers feel the need to make depictions of Imperial evil that feel like they're on a similar level, which is how you get lots of books that mention the Empire committing a genocide or building a new orphan-crushing machine or something. But in Andor, they're just doing... what oppressive governments all throughout history have done: Crush indigenous cultures, use prison slavery, fire on protestors, and grind communities like Ferrix into the dust. Even Imperial Army troopers, who _should_ feel like pondscum compared to stormtroopers, feel threatening during the Aldhani heist because you know they _could_ absolutely kill the heroes. In a weird way, I find myself _enjoying_ when Dedra is on screen because she's not talking about how to cause the most civilian casualties or optimize the orphan-crushing machine, she's just a (relatively) competent bureaucrat who wants to most effectively do her job.

[@TheDbaru]

Andor's writers understand the banality of evil. Kenobi's writers understand flashy splosions go boom.

[@fluffywolfo3663]

@@TheDbaru that and they’re stuck on “the Empire blew up Alderaan, we can’t go smaller than that!” Sometimes all a story can do is de-escalate.

[@cyan_oxy6734]

​@@TheDbaruThat's what I felt watching it. The biggest weapon of oppressive government are hard working motivated bureaucrats. It's horrifyingly boring.

[@rachelclark6393]

​@@fluffywolfo3663I think this is the biggest problem with Disney star wars from the beginning. The sequel trilogy should have gone smaller scale, not larger. After all, they didn't really manage to pull off the feeling that they eclipsed the OT. They should have shown the galaxy continuing by focusing on the fact that it is a galaxy, with many different stories happening atany different times. The first order should have been a much less credible threat to the galaxy, maybe just a threat to a small, local system. That would explain like, half the inconsistencies in the background of the movies. It would also explain why rey was taking point on saving her local system without having to nerf or kill off Han, Luke, and leia. And after successfully establishing rey's journey, the next trilogy, rey could solve some serious galaxy-wide threat as a beloved fan favorite who's struggled and conquered her personal demons and, and successfully won't the freedom or whatever of her home system. It wouldn't have been so hard, but... Anyway, yeah. I think the efforts to escalate scale in star wars were a poor idea.

[@fluffywolfo3663]

​@@rachelclark6393 The scaling just feels so _lazy_. Like "Look, here's a mini death star laser! Here's a Death Star laser that's built from a planet instead of a moon and it blows up star systems! Here's a fleet of Star Destroyers armed with death star lasers!" It just got silly after awhile. It got to the point that I was seriously wondering if they had access to a starforge for all the ridiculous stuff they had.

[@JonS]

The Stormtroopers in Obi-Wan are not only incompetent at their job. They seem to have no interest in personal survival. This is implausible.

[@christiandauz3742]

Unless they are the same ones in Rebels or Return of the Jedi or the 'sequel' Trilogy Rian Johnson ought to be forced to donate ALL OF HIS WEALTH to Ukraine!!!

[@WolfeSaber]

And for the cherry on top, the ones from Obi-Wan are 501st, who are suppose to be the best of the best out of the standard. Andor had no reason for 501st, and they still shot better.

[@sauronplugawy3866]

​@@christiandauz3742Giving this much money to a country with official nazi militia is not the Best idea even if it means that russian dictatorship will be destroyed. US tried this with talibans in Afganistan and we all know how that went.

[@friendlyreaper9012]

@@sauronplugawy3866 also have you seen the "recruitment" videos from Ukraine? 3 or 4 guys rush someone on the street and drag him into a van. I'm obviously against the invasion but this is just terrible.

[@seekingabsolution1907]

​@@WolfeSaberthose are the ones from return of the jedi though.

[@c4sualcycl0ps48]

Best part was that the Aldhani garrison were not frontline troops (stormtroopers) and were still intimidating and competent.

[@master_samwise]

Excellent point.

[@armandom.s.1844]

And avobe all, humans. The radio operator was a competent military man, seemed kind and joked with his garrison friends. I guess that the average imperial is like him, not just moronic and stupidly evil ruthless serial killers.

[@eddiebanks3143]

hell yeah they were competent, 5 of the REBELS were killed in the heist. Not just nameless good guys, like people we got to know a little bit. Hell they killed off Nemik because....like Andor said. This mission was suicide. And it was for most of the TEAM.

[@blakefriel704]

I also love how that one imperial pleaded to let the son of the governor (I think it was) go in the hostage situation. The bad guy was acting like a hero trying to protect a child.

[@Praetore_]

Interesting part is Imperial Army Troopers, are the frontline for the Empire. The Stormtroopers are more like, well, real world counterpart sturm troopen, or a bit like the US Marines, or Royal Marines, a specialised, more elite force which whilst sizeable has an emphasis on more special, more difficult operations. Unfortunately, they've essentially written it into canon now that Storm Troopers are complete clowns who can't aim for shit for the most part, sigh. It makes sense they'd be nowhere near as good as Commandos, and Clones. But they SHOULD be vastly superior to rebels who are largely a bunch of completely untrained and inexperienced previous civilians and often have a very short life on the battlefield. They'd need to win through unconvetional ambush tactics and desperate methods, even then the Imperials aren't incompetent and many in leadership would be clone war veterans so would expect certain tactics they've already seen seperatists use. The rebels should be having a much harder time, and it's honestly tiring they're so glued to good guy always win rules.

[@matthewyoung2140]

I think it's also worth noting that while the ISB in Andor has competent, intelligent individuals, the system as a whole is plagued by pettiness and political infighting which ultimately leads to the Empire's demise. It makes a much better story than portraying the Imperials as stupid.

[@jazzx251]

I'm watching the female World Cup right now ... the USA were 1 millimetre away from going out. The Portugese lady took her shot in th 90th minute ... but it didn't go in; just impacted off the post. The USA female team (current world champions) has been concentrating on getting more money, and not realising that other countries are now much better tactically than they are. Back-biting, in-fighting ... those are recipes for failure, as Andor's version of the Empire so clearly shows. A once dominant power bringing itself to its knees.

[@diepie5144]

pettiness and infighting are also, historically, a major problem in authoritarian regimes. In fact, this kind of political jockeying is even encouraged in some cases, since it provides motivation for the top brass to do their jobs effectively, and to direct their other energies towards fighting each other, and not to overthrow the dictator. One great example of this is Nazi Germany (an inspiration for Empire) where tank units stationed in France in order to respond to D-Day were put under direct command of Hitler, because the two generals in the region (forgive me if I got the rank wrong) were arguing over who they should be assigned to. Because Hitler enjoyed sleeping in, they were not deployed to fight against D-Day until after the allies were able to secure a foothold in France. Palpatine being whom he is, I could definitely see him employing a similar tactic.

[@jessiemeisenheimer8675]

​@@diepie5144I think Rome is also a good example. In its 1,000 plus years of Imperial history it had just two dozen competent emperors. Civil war became the ridiculously common norm after the 3rd century.

[@adora_was_taken]

@@jessiemeisenheimer8675 A great analogy, considering the fall of the Republic was based on Rome too.

[@michaelarsaadyatma]

​​@@diepie5144 field marshall rommel and general rundstedt is the name of the "2 general" and yes because of hitler sleep scedule similar to a 5 month old baby waking up at 11:00 am no one dare to do anything while rommel was in berlin giving french shoes as birthday gift to his wife

[@wafflingmean4477]

It's also worth mentioning that the only reason the rebels were able to pull off the Aldhani heist (in addition to a rarely naturally occurring phenomenon the Empire did not yet fully understand) was that the rebels had an inside man. An imperial officer had defected to the rebels and had yet to blow his cover. He was able to rearrange the security of the base and frame it as a favour to the troops so they could watch the meteor shower. Without this, none of the rebels would have made it to the vault. And even THEN, the soldiers realised something was up and converged on the rebels, killing some of them and nearly preventing their escape. Plus the imperial defector had good relations with the local populace, therefore likely more knowledge of the meteor shower than the average imperial. He was probably the one who informed the rebels of it in the first place. And the show spends a good deal of time emphasising how detached the imperials are from the culture of the locals, indirectly explaining why they haven't yet identified the potential weakness in their airspace.

[@fintandodwell1476]

also in contrast to Kenobi, their insider was someone who had been stationed in the garrison for years and was second in command, which allowed the rebels to not only enter the garrison but also have a reduced imperial presence at the vault, meanwhile Kenobi's insider was some low ranking officer who wasn't even stationed on the fortress basically bluffing their way to a restricted terminal to let Kenobi in

[@wafflingmean4477]

@@fintandodwell1476 Yeah and she was stationed on a different planet. This is the equivalent of a soldier in our world showing up on a different continent from where they're supposed to be stationed with no communication from above and she was of a lower rank than the guy she was telling to let her in. No rational human being would have allowed her through. I was 100% sure he let her in so they could watch her and perhaps uncover a greater plot (such as seeing she was opening the water pipes and therefore laying an ambush for Kenobi). But nope. They didn't even watch her. Idiots.

[@emilspegel9677]

@@wafflingmean4477 People hop around the galaxy with impunity in Star Wars, even Tatooine has the galactic equivalent of Greyhound busses ferrying people. Secondly she is an uniformed officer with the right credentials and attitude. Why wouldn't he let her in or in any way take her into account? They are probably complacent because who would attack a ultra-secret probation compound like that anyway. Dude want to finish his Soduko before lunchbreak, its Calamari Taco Wednesday...

[@wafflingmean4477]

@@emilspegel9677 Who would attack it? It's literally been attacked before by a Jedi before Kenobi. And we know the writers knew that because they rip off scenes so directly from Fallen Order that the only reason the Kenobi writers can't get charged with plagiarism is because the show and the game are from the same franchise. And no, she did not have the right credentials. Being stationed on another planet is not the right credential to walk into a base on this planet, unless she actually gave a reason, or was of a specific rank/specialisation that had the need and authority to switch bases on a whim with no explanation. And again, that is something she is not, because she was flagged by their security system, which is why she was even questioned on the way in. Dude you watched the show and watched this review and you still say she has the right credentials? Either you're too much of a fanboy to admit to a simple fact or you're an idiot.

[@Alxnick]

​@@emilspegel9677Even so, that's incredibly incompetent. Attitude should mean nothing, she shouldn't have had any relevant credentials, and high security locations shouldn't be allowed to become complacent. I guarantee you that high security locations with minimal attempted trespassing events have the least complacency, because they're constantly drilling. Their importance means that the one time someone tries to break in, it is serious and not an inadvertent trespasser.

[@petery6432]

Another thing worth noting about the "No one would be stupid enough to attack the fort" idea in both shows: In Obi-Wan Kenobi, we're talking about a powerful Inquistor fortress, whereas Andor, it's an minor garrison that doesn't have much significance in the grand scheme of things. Thus, hoping that the appearance of strength will prevent people from attacking it is a far more resource effective defensive plan when talking about low significance property like a minor garrison.

[@coleeckerman1390]

Well I think it’s that inquisitors are powerful enough to defend the secret base and the Empire didn’t see the need to buy a whole shield generator just for one base. It goes with the line “Fear, will keep the systems in line.”

[@adora_was_taken]

@@coleeckerman1390 But they can build a full planetary shield for Scarif.

[@sammarino7357]

@@adora_was_takenscarif is a completely different situation a secret inquisitorial base of people who are theoretically the shadow doing things in secret having little to no real knowledge of the plans or weapon schematics while scarif is essentially the archive the place that has major significance because of all the data and secrets that exist there that was only destroyed because well it got invaded and was compromised

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

You just give 40 uncontacted Teddy bear tribesmen guns and drop them in there. Problem solved. They'll eat the inquisitors.

[@yourgodemperorofeverything1354]

​@@coleeckerman1390 Empire literally has ships.that can turn planet without planetary shield.into glass. If anyone, they should be the ones understanding why such important military instalation should have shield, or at least heavy ISD protection. Or at least one ISD. Empire has resources of entire Galaxy and they cannot put one generator on base of their jedi-hunters? Something that any enemy force would target surely? "Fear will keep systems in line" was backed by fully functionak planet-destroying base. Up until that point they were still keeping appearences, Senat was a thing etc.

[@lumeronswift]

I really hope Andor season 2 retains the quality... it will be gutting if execs commandeer it because of its critical (if not box office) success.

[@master_samwise]

I'm worried about that, and I'm also worried about them shooting without the writers on set due to the strike.

[@metaknight115]

Let's hope, but Andor might go the way of the Mando. Starts off really good, then the higher ups get their hands on it and a huge drop in quality is apparent.

[@ImVeryOriginal]

@@master_samwise From the interviews with Gilroy and the cast, I got the impression that their method is all about fine tuning the script before it goes to shooting and then mostly filming it all according to it. The showrunner wasn't ever present on set (I'm assuming the same is true of the other writers) and he spoke out about how annoying it can be for a director to have the writer there peeking over his shoulder. Personally, I'm more worried about the significant timeline jumps throughout the season.

[@aliharvey448]

​​@@master_samwiserom what I gather, Diego Luna phones Gilroy whenever he needs direction or clarification over some of the execution. It's low-key but according to the cast, they are working hard and crafting their best work. Nothing has been gutted and are on schedule

[@aliharvey448]

​@@joshingitup-xc3lmthe script is already locked in. The budget is set. Disney has too much on their hands right now. And not to mention, Andor was #9 most watched last year. It had excellent critic reviews across the board. Andor is so complex that the house of mouse wouldn't know how to pick it apart to reproduce its success. Best leave it to the pros (Gilroy).

[@kingbooomer9231]

the only way I can feasibly justify Kenobi now is that it’s all taken from a young Leia’s perspective and retelling with a lot of embellishment. Andor’s Star Wars is the Star Wars I support wholeheartedly

[@nicholasscott3287]

How about this: Obi-Wan was using the Force to fuck with the Imperials' minds to make them less competent. Plot armor? Nah, just "battle meditation". ;)

[@kingbooomer9231]

@@nicholasscott3287 still wouldn’t explain Darth Vader’s decision making which should withstand a hermit’s old force tricks

[@its_dey_mate]

@@nicholasscott3287 As funny as it sounds the moment I read battle meditation my Star wars lore glands in the brain fired and remembered that there is indeed such a power. A sith lord used it to great effect, moralizing his own and demoralizing enemy troops, along with boosting their enthusiasm and some basic physical traits, then he met a jedi that had the same ability and they duked it out. I think Luke had great battle meditation.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

In other words, they should have hired studio trigger to make it.

[@aaronmosmeyer6315]

Honestly, Vader’s decision making is one of the few things that makes sense. Look at Anakin from the prequels/clone wars. He’s impulsive, reckless, and driven by emotion. The Kenobi series is pretty much the only time we have actually seen Vader act like Anakin. The way I see it, at the end of the series Vader realized his mistake in allowing emotion to fuel his hunt for Kenobi. Vader realized he truly needed to let the past die, thus finally killing Anakin for good.

[@turtleextraordinaire5435]

I appreciate that Andor managed to depict the Empire as something which had the capability to take and keep control over the galaxy. It shows lots of the inner workings and planning that allows such a huge body to continue such mass control. Another great video with some excellent points.

[@emilspegel9677]

Mass control which repeatedly fail due to stupidity, complacency, greed and avarice on part of the imperials themselves.

[@Jobother]

it also shows the petty corruption and arrogance that was their downfall. in many ways, Andor is the only star wars property to adequately show how the empire conquered the galaxy AND beleivably lost it

[@jacopoabbruscato9271]

I love how in Andor the Force and the Jedi are not mentioned once. A refreshing perspective on the galaxy's Average Joes

[@IRLSuperb]

Turin that time the thought of a Jedi was only something that high officials would think about or people in the council, and is about the regular citizen in the low levels who didn’t pay attention to those things because it wasn’t something they ever encountered

[@geraintthatcher3076]

Its not only Kenobi that treated Stormtroopers badly. In the Mandalorian they are literally killed with a rolling rock, straight out of Looney Tunes and if youve ever seen Dave Filonis Rebels Cartoon then enough said

[@master_samwise]

I don't specifically remember that scene, but it reminds me of the barrel scene from the second Hobbit movie. Never bother watching the third.

[@geraintthatcher3076]

@master_samwise It was in Season 2. Boba Fett and Fennic Shand show up and they kill lots of Stormtroopers together. Omg pt3 with legolas jumping on falling stones. You really didn't miss anything

[@YTAG33]

In Rebels the main characters conduct hit and run attacks and run away from Stormtrooper garrisons. They are portrayed as an endless army that you could never hope to stand your ground against. It is very similar to Andor where they have specific heists or objectives and nothing like Obi-Wan as described here in this video where they stand in a line and shoot each other like morons.

[@joeconcepts5552]

And in Return of the Jedi they’re defeated by some Ewoks jumping on them.

[@IvanKinkle]

Well, I mean a rolling rock is very heavy and not completely out of the realm of being a real threat. As I remember it, it was rolling down behind some stormtroopers? 🤔 I don’t completely remember. But that’s not that bad. And “Rebels” was a very good show and you have to remember, they wouldn’t show too much violence in it since it was on DisneyXD.

[@Mpiewizard]

I just cannot get over how blatantly they ripped off Fallen Order and how stupid it makes the Empire look. It’s even more embarrassing that the game is an overall better story with far more compelling characters.

[@master_samwise]

Nor can I good sir. Nor can I.

[@aaronmosmeyer6315]

I kinda disagree about Fallen Order being more compelling. I can definitely say Trilla is a far more interesting inquisitor than Reva, but watching how Kenobi and Vader handle their trauma makes a very compelling story. I really think the production issues (tons of filler, crappy action choreography, and an uninteresting score) are what bring it down, but the story is there. Just should’ve been a 2 hour movie instead.

[@nickbaggins7942]

Despite being Canon most viewers have no idea about any of the games

[@paulallen2680]

@@nickbaggins7942and?

[@manavbhalla2861]

@@aaronmosmeyer6315What story??? Its full of plot holes and character decisions that make no sense. Kenobi is a joke. Fallen Order has a much more believable and just overall a objectively better narrative.

[@westwardstar1686]

Your not wrong. Its rather odd how inconsistent the Empire is portrayed every time. Andors take is *the* most grounded take on the Empire. Just showing the countless ISB conference meetings, data/intelligence collecting, keeping/status quo/paperwork. And thats just 1 agency. Also noticed the cinematography used for the Empire in Andor. The camera panning from the black polished boots on the floor rising up ie. Ep. 4 and 7. Dedra prepping her uniform in ep 7. Dedra is portrayed with ambition, authority, polish, professionalism, brains. But also has lots of real human qualities ie. Work drama w/Blevin, healthy work relationship with assistant, or true fear in the finale.

[@kingskelett6265]

I feel honestly the empire portrayed somewhat consistent, which is bad in most cases. Andor is the blessed exception, Rogue One is also good but there the focus is not on the Empire actually being good at what it does. Honestly I just wish we get a full view point of someone in the empire. And I don't mean "starts in the empire but flips in like, two three steps". Because it would be interesting to see how such a person has to deal with doing things that are bad time and again, but also trying to see the good sides (they exist, they aren't many and don't excuse the bad parts but that is the point, how long can you focus on them)

[@westwardstar1686]

@@kingskelett6265 I would totally be down for an Imperial centric/pov show/movie. So far the closest weve got, imo, is Andor. It is fascinating seeing 2 indiviudals who work directly (or in Syrils case) indirectly for the Empire. Also they are true believers in their quest for justice etc. And yes, the Empire is always portrayed as bad....naturally. But some shows portray the Empire as hokey/highly incompetant. How many times can the Ghost crew (I believe theyre called) from Rebels attack bases w/out many repercussions. It felt like Thrawns hands were tied the whole time. Same applies to BB. How many times can you poke the Empire and get away with it. Tech dies, but that was cause of Saw. Stormtroopers in Mando are useless. A case can be made because its post RoTJ, they are not at their best. But still Mando runs thru them. Gideon goes out like a chump. RO was waay better. And Andor doubles down on that. Actions have consequences. It demonstrates that the Empire has talented agents/professionals who handle this stuff. Dedra Meero is beyond excellant. The enemy sbould be portrayed with competance/seriousness.

[@gentlyvillainous]

I would actually argue the Thrawn stories portray the empire in the most grounded or “neutral” way, just like with the rebels (and real life) you have good, neutral and bad people on both sides. Thrawn is pragmatically neutral, neither good nor bad and sees the empire as the best thing for what’s to come, Eli is a good guy who’s best option in life is to serve a not so great government and senator price is a slimy weasel who started out as a decent person but had some bad run ins in life and let it change her for the worse.

[@jackrutledgegoembel5896]

@@kingskelett6265 Lost Stars is great.

[@yourgodemperorofeverything1354]

​@@kingskelett6265 It should be great. Empire evil does not come fron rhe fact that they like destroying planets. It comes from popular support, in most cases. See that only after they build their planet destroying weapon the abolished Senat, and judging bumy what is said, senat after all did some work in the Empire. Somone has to support it, and it has to posses some sort of redeeming qualities. It would be nice to see that. And it would not absolve Empire of it's terrible deeds, it's just... Disney shows them as comically evil. Like everyone there likes to kill puppy every day and they eat orphans for breakfast. They are still human, you can still show that. Even in WWII you have "nice germans", and I don't mean few that were opposing the regime. People didn't support Hitler because he said "Hey, I'm gonna commit genocide, wanna join?" and in SW most people in the Empire didn't support it because Palpatine was like "Come on, we gonne make sith empire and we will build planet destroying weapon. It wilm be fun!"

[@Nico_Robin1033]

Another great part of Andor was that they understood a lot better the structure of the Imperial military. They knew that stormtroopers are supposed to be an elite force in the army, so for the small Ferrix uprising they sent regular soldiers

[@jazzx251]

I love that bit in the finale, where the stormtroopers are almost leaning against the wall in the background, almost smoking a virtual cigarette ... they didn't expect to be deployed at all, but were there if needed. They were needed. And ruthlessly carried out their duties! Luthen looks on - sadly, knowing that the rebellion has now started for real. His plan come to fruition. To make people suffer enough to rebel against the Empire.

[@rafaelmarkos4489]

They even set up the chain explosion from Wilman's bomb - the imperial commander is seen ordering his soldiers to move the ammo and grenade cache into the open for a 'show of force'. And they set up his overzealous attitude and desire for a promotion all the way back in episode 7, which plays directly into his decision making. Quality stuff.

[@GreenNinj4]

Yes but as long as every other Disney Product exists, its just a big ass plothole because you have shows like Rebels with 4 Seasons of stormtroopers being the worst soldiers you could find.

[@rdkirk3834]

@@rafaelmarkos4489 It's going to leave him the fall-guy for Dedra to place the blame on for the debacle. It was his direct action against her orders that triggered the riot.

[@asc3nded397]

Andor shows the incredible heights that Star Wars can still reach when written by competent people. Andor is my favorite Star Wars project ever and it only makes the other Disney crap even more frustrating. They clearly have the ability to make great Star Wars and choose not to.

[@moffjendob6796]

The key to Andor is it tells a good story set in the Star Wars universe. It does NOT try to be STAH WUZ.

[@filippopotame3579]

Yeah, after Andor's subtle politics and spy game, the attempt at the same thing in Mandalorian season 3 felt laughable.

[@sidneyrobinson18]

I think Rogue One was pretty good

[@filippopotame3579]

@@sidneyrobinson18 and I think all Andor fans agree with you, I do at least.

[@joseocasio3740]

​@@sidneyrobinson18yeah andor and rouge one are basically the only times the empire is a threat in disney star wars

[@eddiebanks3143]

What further backs your point up. Everyone who entered the inquisitors base made it OFF the inquisitor base alive. 5 of our Heroes/rebels lost their lives in the Aldahni Heist. 5 Good guys died...like that is REALISTIC. Even a character we came to start liking in Nemik !!!

[@emilspegel9677]

One of the ones in the inquisitor base was a freaking decorated and lauded Jedi Master and General who has done similar stunts across his career. Team Andor was two criminals, a couple of low grade defectors and some political radicals with guns. None of them are elite operatives.

[@Lord_Numpty]

@@emilspegel9677 A severely weakened, out of practice one who spent the whole series being emasculated though. Ended up working against that show in the end, gratifyingly enough. Were it Obi-Wan in the continuity before Disney buggered everything up, he would be none of those things. Don't get me wrong, I think the character's a pompous wanker but there's no denying his skill or devotion. Besides, while you're right in that he and the rebels aren't on the same level as Andor's group, neither was the security in the Aldahni facility so despite not being the same, they're still comparable due to the power of both sides. By rights, more of the rebels should have died on the Inquisitor base considering there were actually inquisitors present and this sad sack who named himself after a war hero was borderline useless. Admittedly haven't watched Andor, but after looking up the heist bloody hell it was well done. The production team really does deserve more recognition for making such a gem in the endless cesspit that is Disney Star Wars.

[@leichtmeister]

Yeah and Obi-Wan is Obi-Wan, while Andor is meant to depict the parts of Star Wars where the empire wins...

[@emilspegel9677]

@@leichtmeister Well they most obviously didn't "win". Heist- Rebel Victory, Goals Achieved Prison Escape- Successful, prisoners escaped and prison complex neutralized as an asset for foreseeable future Space Battle- Loss of multiple Tie fighters and an imperial capital vessel seriously damaged End Sequence- Propaganda victory for the rebellion, the funeral where held in full defiance of the empire, whom responded as anticipated. Andor and rebels further embarrass imperial intelligence by killing several assets and freeing what the imperials think is a high value prisoner

[@basedeltazero714]

@@emilspegel9677 Yeah, and the Jedi Master was attacking the Fortress Inquisitorious, the seat of power of the organization dedicated specifically to hunting down Jedi, and the Andor team was attacking a random dam staffed by rear-echelon seat warmers.

[@freddym99]

My personal best about Andor: The Aldhani garrison was just a small, understaffed, low priority base situated on a pacifist planet. The soldiers probably unexperienced with only 1-2 officers who know what they are doing. The heist was planned for months with an inside man! Yet the imperials still acted like a professional military and even whiped out half of the protagonists crew. Andor even got captured later on. THAT is what makes you respect the empire and creates tension. The hero suddenly becomes vulnerable and the plot more interesting.

[@Comicbroe405]

Andor was basically a correction for the failures of the previous outings. I'm really loving these comparisons!

[@lockretvids]

Even though I know the rebels win in the end, Andor had me question whether toppling the Empire could truly be done. That is how good that show is.

[@Eilonwy95]

So fun to see the Empire in Andor be actually intimidating.

[@AMoistBum]

I just want to say that I got your comment to 69 likes

[@ismawell3929]

And in andor they feel human. Look how the officer tries to save the kid from the rebels. In Kenobi not even main characters achieve to feel like they have real and solid motivations

[@moffjendob6796]

In Kenobi, the Imp would've stuck a gun in the kid's face... even though he's the son of an Imperial officer.

[@callumpears1523]

A small detail at 6:28 The TIEs in the Fortress are facing inwards. This is presumably so that we as viewers can see their iconic round windows but in terms of realism it'd make it pretty awkward to launch them quickly.

[@DragonOnCoke7299]

Omg I never noticed it and now I hate it.

[@Brahlam]

Good Spot... nothing in this shows makes any sense or follows the slightest bit of logic.

[@moffjendob6796]

If we are REALLY generous... those are recently-landed? Maybe? But they sure sat there on a gantry a while.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

The scene of the doctor just calmly and casually talking about the Empire murdered and wiped out an entire species and recorded their children’s cried and modified them to become an effective torture device was absolutely terrifying. And the fact that we didn’t even hear the screams? Even more terrifying. It’s not a scene that’s terribly complex. It’s only a couple of shots from the camera, two great actors and a very well written scene. And it made me feel more frightened of what the Empire was capable of than the sequel series and Kenobi combined.

[@TheManFromWaco]

In a related subject, as much as "the Empire builds another superweapon" is often maligned as a cheap, go-to plot in Star Wars, I think that Death Star 2: Endor Boogaloo was a actually a very good idea. From a movie-watching perspective, the Battle of Endor looks and plays out very differently than the Battle of Yavin, so it still feels like you're getting something different. From an in-universe perspective, the Empire is using the Death Star 2 a fundamentally different way. Death Star 1 was designed to scare the galaxy into submission with its planet killing firepower. Death Star 2 was designed as a trap for the Rebel Alliance. We know from "A New Hope" and "Empire" that the Rebels hide themselves on remote planets and use hit-and-run attacks, while the Empire has overwhelming strength and resources but can't bring them to bear. So the Empire creates a target the Rebels are practically guaranteed to attack with their entire fleet, with Palpatine going so far as to use himself as bait, in order to lure the Alliance into a trap. The Rebels then (ideally) get caught in a lopsided conventional battle with the Imperial Fleet and are destroyed. Of course, then Palpatine dragged the battle out to try to torment Luke Skywalker into joining the Dark Side, the Ewoks happened, and the Empire got Dien Bien Phu'd. So not perfect competence is on display. But at least it was more creative than "LET'S BUILD A DEATH STAR THAT CAN KILL SEVERAL PLANETS AT ONCE!"

[@paperbullet1945]

The First Order built Starkiller Base because they know they're a relatively small (but well-funded and highly motivated) group of terrorists who can't compete with the New Republic - unless they build a superweapon that can decapitate the New Republic in a single shot. It's because they succeed that they're not immediately destroyed afterward, and the rest of the sequel trilogy can happen.

[@americantemplar6109]

@@paperbullet1945The Force Awakens is literally a copycat script of A New Hope.

[@giphe]

How can they be a small group yet have the capability to terraform an entire planet into a superweapon? Let alone one more 5 times more powerful than the empire, which controlled the majority of the galaxy, could build and in a span of maybe 30 years?

[@MrCovi2955]

I saw a video once where someone counted all the shots fired by storm troopers in the opening scene of A New Hope, then counted the rebel dead, and calculated that they had an insanely high shot-to-kill ratio. It probably wasn't intentional as odds are Lucas didn't have any information on what a shot-to-kill ratio was. But they were terrifyingly affective there. Fast forward and an entire platoon of storm troopers in Obiwan couldn't hit a single one of the rebels crowded together in a room with zero cover. It should have literally been like shooting fish in a barrel.

[@moffjendob6796]

Well, the fans and producers excuse that with, "Oh, the Tantive IV guys were elite CLONES - that's why they can shoot straight! Normie troopers can't even shoot a can on the ground hahahahaha!"

[@graybonesau]

@@moffjendob6796 Except for the fact that the so-called 'clones' on the Tantive IV would be in their late 50s, early 60s

[@moffjendob6796]

@@graybonesau I am well aware, hence my derision toward the crappy excuse. But at the end of the old EU run, it had basically been retconned that we saw clone Stormtroopers everywhere but Endor. Hence why they were, you know, competent. Which, as someone who was a fan of cool Empire stuff before the prequels came out, is just flagrantly insulting. Then Mandalorian comes along and doubles down on it with the scouts unable to hit a sitting target. Perhaps they named the can "Han Solo" first...

[@Captianmex1C0]

Not to mention those same "Clones" couldn't hit 3 humans in a hallway including a wookie​@@graybonesau

[@graybonesau]

@@Captianmex1C0 Either you haven't watched Episode 4, or you have a bad memory.

[@benjamincrowe6215]

Not only can the Stormtroopers hit their shots in the Rix Road battle, but their vision was also heavily obscured by smoke at the time. THAT'S an elite military force.

[@Diego-zz1df]

I wouldn't call Andor's Empire "competent" (Andor: "What? To steal from the Empire? What do you need? A uniform, some dirty hands and an Imperial tool kit. They’re so proud of themselves, they don’t even care. They’re so fat and satisfied, they can’t imagine it. (...) That someone like me would ever get inside their house, walk their floors, spit in their food, take their gear."), but rather the difference is that the Empire's overall incompetence and failures are derived not from the generous application of arbitrary stupidity to move the plot forward (looking at the J. J. Abrams sequel trilogy, for example, particularly in The Last Jedi what moves the plot forward is a sudden outbreak of stupidity in either the First Order or the rebel side). Andor's imperial prison, for example, had a near-perfect system of control with minimal crew requirements, relying on the panopticon principle (that the inmate's fear of being watched will keep them in line) and the expectation that eventually the sentence will end, so better not break the rules. When the ISB responds to the rebel threat by drastically increasing the length and severity of sentences, this near-perfect system loses one of its legs and falls apart as soon as enough inmates realize there's no legitimate way to get out and that they'll kill everyone to keep this a secret (the prison suddenly isn't following its own rules). If we were to apply Andor's method to Obi-Wan Kenobi, then there would need to be some larger reason for the incompetence of the Inquisitorius (seriously that's such a dumb, pretentious name) that leads them to fail in spite of their individual competence. In other words, the inquisitors would be competent at their specific tasks, but the tasks themselves as well as the overall context of the series would lead them to failure, and Obi-Wan would need to exploit the cracks in the system to succeed, rather than rely on either brute force or his opponent suddenly becoming an imbecile (kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYO0iGWDic2Fo7s).

[@ImVeryOriginal]

I would call the Empire in Andor "competent, but with weaknesses stemming from hubris and institutional conservatism". Not showing how Andor uses these weaknesses against them as a thief is one of the biggest missteps of the show in my opinion. He just *tells* us they're arrogant and self-satisfied - otherwise the Empire is shown as quite competent and it's the corpos who take on the "indolent buffoon" role. It also robs us of seeing what qualities and skills make him a prized candidate for the Rebellion. I'm always annoyed that a show which otherwise puts a lot of time and effort into setting things up completely skips over that aspect.

[@ΓιάννηςΛάμπρης]

​@@ImVeryOriginalwe will definitely see Andor implementing those skills in s2 as part of the rebellion so maybe that's why they didn't show us

[@MandoWookie]

It's possible to be both competent, and complacent. In fact the competence can breed complacency over an extended time with no incidents to reveal weaknesses in the system to correct for. And if the higher levels of the system are biased toward maintaining the perfect record of success and either actively or passively discouraging reporting of incidents which call that record in to question or worse that the system itself is flawed then the needed corrections don't happen. The agents of the Empire are competent at their jobs, but the system relies on assumptions that mean that competence might not be directed effectively or correctly.

[@westwardstar1686]

​@@MandoWookieExactly. This is how & what a corporte body looks like. Andor is a common thief. He exploits the Empire when he can. He apparently bribes quartermasters to leave valuables behind. Which I like to imagine are low ranked Imperials. For example Dedra cant necessarily control what her people at Steerguard do. She relies on them. The Starpath unit Andor stole can easily be a write off to the Empire realistically. They can afford to lose it. But her people did not want to disclose its theft and hid it. By extension making Dedra look incompetant-as Blevin points out. Also referenced when Dedra wants to reach out to other 'Departments'? Like Imperial Navy. Navy also apparently never admits anything is wrong on the end. Also the whole Narkina 5 arc is an excellant look into how bloated the system is. On top of that being a prisin aligned with the DS project-mightve been off the books idk.

[@Big_Red1]

Replying to your last sentences about the Inquisitorius, it has been shown in other media that the Inquisitors themselves have only been given modest training, basically enough to take on Jedi who were young padawans. Against others who were more heavily trained or skilled or experienced Knights and Masters, they don't hold a candle. They would overcome this discrepancy in training by bringing Purge Troopers and Storm Troopers with them. My main example being in Rebels when Kanan and Ezra are fighting the Inquisitors (season 2 I think, its been a while though), and they are basically at a standstill. Then Ahsoka shows up and takes them both on without issue. This is mostly because Vader and the Emperor don't want any of them to gain enough power to be a real threat to them. The notable exception being the Grand Inquisitor himself. So my idea on how to show them being competent at their specific task (hunting down the remaining Jedi, most of whom were young padawans or younglings at the time of the Purge and who are for the most part operating alone), while them being unable to contend with someone who is much more experienced/powerful and/or who has support from others would be to show the confrontation with that other Jedi that we see on Tatooine and have him fighting like mad, but being ultimately being cut down with little effort by the Inquisitors and some Purge Troopers. Like in Jedi Fallen Order/Survivor, Cal has support from his friends/crew and same in Rebels, and Kanan/Ezra have the Ghost crew and later Ahsoka and the wider Rebellion helping them out.

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

Also can we talk about how some ANCIENT Snow speeders somehow were able to attack the Fortress Inquisitorious. That would be like a pair of Mig-15s getting a strafing run at the Pentagon, without triggering any air defense, without being intercepted as soon as it got into US airspace, and without being seen hundreds of miles away.

[@kf8113]

To be fair, the 9/11 attackers got pretty far in this regard...

[@leichtmeister]

Production of the T-47 started years after the end of the clone wars, which makes it as modern as the Tie-Fighter at the time of Kenobi...

[@revbladez5773]

@@kf8113 At least in their case, they took of as normal and were hijacked mid-air. And because of it, today there are pre-cautions to prevent it from happening again. Tighter airport security and flight control, Department of Homeland Security was founded because of it, etc.

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

Well yeah but that was a terrorist attacki

[@Tokmurok]

​​@@revbladez5773 how about it was obviously a bs government psy op.

[@nonyabisness6306]

Andor does a fantastic job at giving a glimpse behind the superficial view we usually get from shows/movies. It's shows the routine, what goes on when there aren't heroes running around destroying death stars. The Intelligence Apparatus is especially intimidating. And that's without Vader showing up, or Inquisitors. Who should illicit even more dread, instead of being comically inept.

[@trianglemoebius]

The idea that the Empire "lost" to the Ewoks always bothers me, and is itself a large part of the misconception around them. The Empire won against the Ewoks - they were taken off guard and had trouble getting their shit together in the chaos that followed, but as soon as they did you can see the battle immediately turn back in their favour. The only reason the Empire didn't win the Battle of Endor is because that's exactly what the Rebels were counting on. The Ewoks were neither intended to or ever going to win, but they *could* throw the garrison into chaos long enough to distract them from the bunker.

[@frankg2790]

Obi-Wan Kenobi portrays the Empire as the joke that everybody has made about it while Andor portrays the Empire as the threat they were hyped up to be.

[@QuantumFerret]

Mooooore Andor videos! Also, I’d love for you to return to Uncle Iroh and break down how effectively the writers used the trope of an older, wiser, powerful mentor/father figure who’s also comedic relief, because it’s a common one but one that often isn’t pulled off, typically raising questions like “why didn’t they just do everything instead of ?”

[@master_samwise]

Oh I will be doing more Iroh videos for sure.

[@GardenGnomeBricks]

Can’t forget about Reva getting to tatooine with no ship and without bleeding to death before obi wan gets there 😬Disney needs a real Star Wars wake up call

[@scottthong9274]

The back to back comparisons you do make it so clear what is lacking. Only one suggestion: Instead of Disney saying "Shut up", it's tradition by now to use the line or clip "Don't ask questions, just consume product, and then get excited for next product" 😂

[@ulty1472]

9:53 Also nice to see that Andor like Solo recognizes that the Imperial Army and Stroomtrooper Corps are two different things instead of treating stormtroopers like their the army

[@nick_pappagiorgio]

Great points. The Empire should be a cunning and domineering foe, not a comic relief group of bumbling idiots. The Fortress Inquisitorius Air Wing would have one or more combat air patrols patrolling 24 hours a day, with one or more alert squadrons ready to launch at a moment's notice. There would be defense in depth with ships or defense platforms in orbit constantly scanning for threats. An officer with "officer clearance" but no "need to know" or authorized access to the fortress would be stopped and interrogated. Disney writers have no idea how a competent military functions.

[@HEARTS-OF-SPACE]

Great analysis! You're absolutely right about everything. It's truly remarkable just how differently the two shows portray the Empire. The difference is night and day, and all I can do is cringe when someone tries to defend the indefensible Obi-Wan Kenobi show. Andor truly is a triumph. Easily the best piece of Star Wars media in the past few decades. One more thing: Anyone else notice how the snow speeders were flying directly at the wall when we got that POV shot at 6:39? Given their speed and heading, there would've been no way they could avoid slamming directly into the fortress. Also, why snow speeders?!

[@master_samwise]

Yeah that shot of the Snowspeeders is hilariously silly. The shot of one hovering in place while it shoots at Reva is almost as bad, too.

[@rkwatchauralnautsjediparty7303]

One note, they aren’t technically _snow_ speeders in-universe, just speeders, which are atmospheric craft. We only call them snowspeeders because we first saw them on Hoth and that was their official toy name. Remember, Han had to look for Luke on a tauntaun because they were having trouble with the speeders. “It’s possible he forgot to check-in.” “Not likely, are the speeders ready?” “No, sir, we’ve been having trouble adapting them to the cold.” “Then we’ll go out on tauntauns.” “Your tauntaun will freeze before you reach the first marker.” “Then I’ll see you in hell! Hyah!”

[@HEARTS-OF-SPACE]

@@rkwatchauralnautsjediparty7303 My bad! Yeah, I've only really ever seen them on Hoth, so I didn't realize they were general use airspeeders. Thanks for the info!

[@rkwatchauralnautsjediparty7303]

@@HEARTS-OF-SPACE You’re welcome. It’s a minor thing, the rest of your comment is spot on.

[@ImVeryOriginal]

Yeah that shot looks terrible, they also look like they're too small in relation to the people on the ground. Looks to me like they filmed the overhead shot without pre-vizzing it and then just tried to awkwardly fit in the speeders in post. The shot of Obi-Wan's ship running from the Star Destroyer at 14:44 is also pretty bad. While being under heavy fire it just stops, hesitantly turns and only then flies away - it moves like a fish, not a spaceship.

[@ArmouredProductions]

Kenobi (and most other Star Wars): Casually walks into Imperial Bases with or without disguises Andor: **MONTHS OF PREP TIME AND AN INSIDE MAN AND THE OPERATION STILL GOES FUBAR**

[@samgilley3160]

11:53 This idea permeates the OT as well. In Star Wars tarkin refuses to evacuate because he doesn't believe the rebels are capable of exploiting the weakness. It applies to Palpatine himself. In rotj he leaks the deathstar plans in an attempt to draw the rebels into a trap. But the rebels are good enough to spring the trap and still win. The only movie it doesn't really apply to is Empire Strikes Back, because the Empire is completely ontop of their game in that movie in order to bring about a second act low point. Also its the movie that doesn't need a death star blown up at the end. 🤷‍♂️

[@Blanktester685]

all of the prequel films don't have a death star.

[@erccdang]

The pace, stress and dialogue inside ISB headquarters was fascinating.

[@jakobcarlsen6968]

FINALLY someone who talks about the Empire as is should be. A military entity filled with competent personell. I loved General Veers in the original trilogy, straight forward and DAMN good at his job.

[@TearYouApart360]

This show made Stormtroopers frightening again.

[@Imperialstorm03]

As much as I've been a prime believer that the finale of Andor almost somewhat undid how they made the Empire (because I do feel like the finale was rushed), Andor was overall a breath of fresh air with how they portrayed the Empire versus how every medium before them did. We felt the presence and reach of the Empire and by extension we learned to actually *feel* intimidated. They were not simply telling us "the Empire is bad and evil and you should be scared", they showed us exactly why we'd be nervous in any one of their place. If you weren't imperial and you fucked up, they'd let you know you messed up big time because before the events of Yavin THEY had the final word on everything. From a local police officer to a lowly citizen, everyone was bound to be susceptible to the Empire's boot if you didn't bend the knee first. I especially adored the usage of the imperial army soldiers who'd, if many of us familiar with the EU recall, basically been the actual "grunts" of the Galactic Empire whereas the Stormtrooper Corps was the more fanatical shock trooper branch. For every flaw Andor had it was made up by its superb storytelling, something I feel disheartened to say that the show was brilliantly received when it stars a character from one anthology versus two shows, Boba Fett and Kenobi, starring two unanimously loved characters where their shows essentially flopped. Overall, I adore how "naturally evil" the Empire has been portrayed here. Rather than the typical "moustache twirling villains" we got from, say, Star Wars Rebels. We understood how serious it was for the rebellion to take action against the Empire. Because for every imperial trooper they killed. Ten or hundreds, the Empire responded by shattering millions. There were REAL consequences here and it wasn't always some legacy character to steal the glory. One mess-up and you were dropped by an imperial army trooper or a stormtrooper.

[@ethangonzalez8904]

Hey remember in A New Hope when the Stormtroopers barge into Leah's ship and immediately wipe the floor with all the resistance they find?

[@Ale-dd3ek]

This channel really hates Kenobi😂 He's right though

[@master_samwise]

I wanted to love the show so bad. Huge fan of Obi-Wan as a character. My wife is too and she saw the first episode and went "nah, not interested". It's sad how far Star Wars has fallen.

[@scionofdorn9101]

It's easy to hate the reek of garbage.

[@Durpl]

All stormtroopers should be used the same as in Andor as in other SW content. The only time there should be more then 100 stormtroopers on screen is when an Inquisitor, Darth Vader or a grand moff or Admiral is around and when this happens the main characters better have an incredibly good plan to ESCAPE

[@bbnykis]

If your heroes triumph because the villains are incompetent, you as a writer have failed.

[@eleonorepb4565]

It can work in a parody or a deconstruction

[@moffjendob6796]

@@eleonorepb4565Which is what the "writers" working at LFL claim to specialize in. Oh, we're deconstructing the old heroes... we're deconstructing the Empire to see how it works... No. You're just ruining everything by making them pointlessly stupid so your plot can happen.

[@Bas-TB]

So George Lucas failed, I guess?

[@SuiteBid]

That's a pretty absolute statement, and as the saying goes, only Sith deal in absolutes. Villains losing due to incompetence isn't bad in and of itself. That's basically par for the course when it comes to the ways villains lose due to character flaws. There are ways to write incompetence. Example, in many stories, the incompetence of the Empire stems from a huge amount of infighting and nepotism, in that a lot of people in charge get in due to connections and a lot of them are trying to increase their own station due to greed, pride or something else, rather than legitimately want the Empire itself to thrive. Another example would be Palpatine's death. Palpatine died because he couldn't foresee the idea that Vader would kill him out of love for his son, which is still a form of incompetence. It's less about them being incompetent that makes a bad writer and more about the writers just not being good at writing incompetence and working it into a decent story.

[@randeli7785]

Writing incompetent villains doesn't make them a failure. Their incompetence just has to be believable instead of just being stupid for no reason.

[@drksideofthewal]

The Empire actually is incompetent, on many levels, in the way many bureaucracies are incompetent. Like when the ISB was looking for Andor when they literally HAD him in custody... the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. Yet, there are realistic ways to show institutional incompetence without giving characters the idiot ball like they do in Kenobi. For example, Vader forgetting that his ship is a *carrier* and he doesn't have to call off the pursuit of the rebels just to go after Kenobi is stupidity bordering on character assassination.

[@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289]

It can be summed up pretty succinctly: The Empire portrayed in Obi-Wan is too stupid to exist in the first place.

[@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289]

ALSO: Let me say I'm glad we're past our worship of the original trilogy to realize that Stormtroopers getting mogged by teddy bears was pretty bad writing.

[@TheMonkeygoneape]

when I was running a fantasy flight campaign, this is exactly how I used storm troopers, had the imperial army for the majority of the time, and the storm troopers when I meant business against the party and would use actual tactics

[@LuaanTi]

We usually used the stormtroopers as _ship_ complements. They're equipped and trained for ship boarding (and defence) operations, raids and such. You would occasionally find them as garrisons, but that generally meant that they were either there as punishment or to temporarily relieve the actual permanent garrison that was probably depleted in some fighting or such. Except for a few very special legions like the 501st, of course, who were the best of the best :P Shock troopers, not field armies. In the OT, that's how we see them too - they're the fighting complement of the ships. We never actually see an imperial garrison, or any real army. Heck, we mostly see the forces most directly surrounding Vader or the Emperor at that. It also lends more weight to the sand crawler scene - Kenobi isn't talking about a generic imperial garrison destroying a crawler for some reason; it's clear that some fleet arrived and has a mission to do on the planet. Which would of course make Kenobi even more anxious to leave - a backwater planet that suddenly came to the attention of a significant force of the Empire is bad news (make no mistake, as iconic as the Star Destroyers are, they are a tiny part of the entire imperial navy; seeing even just one in orbit is _meant_ to be terrifying).

[@cobraking1195]

What I love about Andor is that it actually made the Empire threatening, and a actually made it feel like a oppressive government trying to maintain control. Most Star Wars always depicts the Empire (or any other villains in Star Wars) as the typical ‘big bad who has lots of armies and ships’ who have literally no reason to be bad, you just have to accept it but because the ‘good guys’ have to win they are made into cannon fodder with only Vader being threatening-sure rebels had its moments-but in Andor you can really feel the Rebellions struggle as they attempt to build and shatter Imperial control, I remember watching Andor and actually being more terrified of the stormtroopers than the Death troopers. It also introduces us to the inner workings of the Empire and makes it complex and interesting without having it take up the whole show, also explaining why the Empire gets more and more hated from the rest of the galaxy and also explains why any crime in other Star Wars media is a ‘class one offence.’ I can only hope we see a complex empire or a at least competent one in Ashoka, especially with Thrawn as it’s leader, it would also be nice to see the difference Thrawn would make to the traditional Empire, and how the Empire now has to fight a government a lot larger than themselves, but knowing the track record of Star Wars, I doubt it but I can only hope.

[@NightmaresinParadise]

tony gilroy is the michael clayton of disney star wars

[@Aliddotia]

Yessss more Andor content from MasterSamwise! I love how the haters are like “well if Kenobi had Andor’s budget…” as if more $ could have made the writing better.

[@QuantumFerret]

At the risk of making too many requests, I also think an examination of how The Dragon Prince handles grief, the death of a loved one, reconciliation of clashing cultures, and young love would be really compelling, particularly how it illustrates a very nuanced and deep understanding of grappling with death as a young person while making it very approachable for young people and adults alike. The low frame rate in the first season is a bit painful, but it’s worth it

[@master_samwise]

I haven't watched The Dragon Prince, but definitely want to (because Zuko), so I will make note of this and hopefully do it someday! I always appreciate suggestions!

[@jeremyvettech5562]

Oh for god's sake... Ewoks did NOT beat the stormtroopers in ROTJ. They caught them by surprise and had a few lucky wins at first, but were clearly overmatched after a few minutes. The film shows this. They weren't even supposed to win, as they were only a distraction.

[@superspies32]

And the turning point is not a Marie Sue cone and pbliterated anything but when Chewbacca hook on Ewok's ride to steal 1 AT-ST, with the walker Rebels troops now gain upper hand on the conflict outside the outpost. And then the quick thinking of Han Solo to use the comm inside the AT-ST as bait to lure the remainning forces are entrenching inside a fortified outpost out so they can finished it quick. If he told Chewie to shoot the door, they may need another day to reach the shield room of the heavily fortified outpost that expected their attacks, which enough for not only Papaltine to Death Stared entire fleet but also those scattered outside like Inferno Squad can regroup and attack from behind.

[@austinhyatt4801]

It’s often hard for me to define why Andor is so much better then the other shows that are coming out. This video puts it perfectly. Thanks for sharing

[@hopegalaxy]

The comparisons between Andor & the rest of the other Disney Star Wars shows are night & day

[@ablazedguy]

Subbed just for the logo, he would indeed bring balance to the force..

[@phoenixstudiosprime]

I'm having a lot of fun binge watching your videos. Thanks for what you do.

[@KraffZava7350]

Didnt know your channel or how this video would go but glad i watched it, your so on point . Cheers

[@master_samwise]

Cheers!

[@castlesandcuriosities]

Seriously, thank you so much. Been getting frustrated with how so many people think the Star Wars shows are great where mostly, (aside from Andor) they've been incompetent grabage that continues to deal massive damage to the worldbuilding and characters.

[@guyincognito645]

WARNING: Major spoilers for Jedi Fallen Order.

[@fasillimerick7394]

I am a veteran, and only a lowly enlisted troop. Like everyone else in the military, I had a security clearance. Basically, I pinky swore not to give information to Russia or China that could be easily Googled. If _Kenobi_ rules applied, I should have been able to visit Fort Knox (which wasn't even operated by my branch of service), and poke around opening secure areas and such.

[@ItatsuMagnatsa]

Wait... so throughout the Obi-Wan Series, Vader Encounters Obi-Wan Multiple TIMES!? So that would would make Vader's Line "Our Long awaited Meeting has come at last...." means nothing. Like WTF!? Because at the time of the Original Trilogy, Vader was still Searching for Obi-Wan, there was no Dialogue or Evidence that they encountered each other at all during the Rise and Building of the Empire.

[@ImVeryOriginal]

Spinoffs cheapening moments from the original instead of giving them additional context and meaning? Unheard of! (This is what I really appreciate about Andor btw, for all its flaws I think it's the only sequel that I actually want at the back of my head when watching the OT again, enriching my understanding of what the Empire is and what the heroes are up against)

[@Blanktester685]

@@ImVeryOriginal its not really cheapening anything the originals are still there and able to be watched.

[@ImVeryOriginal]

​@@Blanktester685 This is a hollow argument. It absolutely cheapens it in the moment and in the context of the entire franchise if you take it at face value and treat everything as part of the same ongoing story, as many fans do. You have to compartmentalize and ignore the spinoffs to not let them affect your perception of the originals (which is what I do, I don't care about what's "canon").They don't offer any value on their own and instead of adding to the story, they take away, unless you just ignore them.

[@LIAM_PCK0L]

Andor is "A circle, in the triangle factory, how queer?" Kenobi is "I guess we doing circles now."

[@georgecostan3248]

Meh, I think Andor just took SW more serious than Lucas+Filoni and made the Empire less cartoonish, because the producer didn't even try to make the show (also) for children. I cannot recall a scene in the SW universe before Andor, where the Empire is portrayed at the same high level of competency, save for a few plot armored bad guys.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

The empire is very compoyent in a new hope, even the seeming incompotence of the storm troopers turns out to be an imperial ruse. The only incompotence they have is when tarkin overlooks the recmelty ananlyised deathstar weakness, but this is the same form of incompotence shown in Andor. The empire went down hill after a new hope, but you could argue this is because alot of compotent imperials were killed on the deathstar and then the remainder get atritioned away both by combat and frustrated sith in between and during the later films.

[@Blanktester685]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 no they aren't lmao, lost to farm boy whos never fired a blaster before, star wars was always made for kids yet 40 year old ass men take its so seriously.

[@moffjendob6796]

Dave Filoni is a fanboy playing with his action figures in the Star Wars sandbox. That can be entertaining. Gilroy was writing a thriller that happened to have Star Wars stuff on it. That was enthralling.

[@MatiasGRivera]

You made some amazing points about Andor’s use of purpose, stakes, and selective placement of Stormtroopers that I’m going to use in my own DnD worldbuilding. I have a sect of elite paramilitary guards called the Shield Hive that would have basically felt like mall cops in expensive cosplay, the way I was going to slather them around the city. Just meandering around, no weight or urgency to them at all. Now I’m going to create a “lesser” caste of guards with lesser resources and greater numbers, but dangerous in their communication and competence. I love your video essays, they’re very well researched and articulated. This one is my favorite.

[@lostalone9320]

I think that most modern writers are so bad that they genuinely can't come up with a reason why an intelligent, competent person would disagree with the good guys.

[@DTheWhiteWolfD]

What was great was, what a fair few would consider dull was the ISB’s meetings, methods and tactics employed throughout the show and the reaction and action to everything going on

[@austinsapp5867]

Awesome analysis as usual. Thanks for the comprehensive breakdown! When watching Kenobi, the viewer can just feel that things are off. The action almost never makes sense in this show. The motives are questionable as well. Andor is an immersive masterpiece and deserves way more credit and attention than it received.

[@albertpaul1094]

Andor is proof that Disney can make a good Star Wars story if they want to, and Kenobi is proof that they don't respect their audience enough to do so consistently.

[@Hamstar78]

If Andor doesn't get at least a Nomination in the upcoming Emmy Awards, ill be Livid lol

[@Adrian-dl9nb]

"No Way Out" got one! Great news 😁

[@LumiRockets]

The Obi-Wan Kenobi series is essentially licensed fanfiction that doesn't really answer any questions, raises new ones, needlessly complicates a canon that was already functional and makes it less so, and generally utterly fails to justify or validate its own existence. The whole series only exists because they wanted Ewan McGregor back as Obi-Wan, and they largely didn't much care how. The sooner Star Wars retcons it or "clarifies" it as a What-If? style story, the better off we'll all be for it. Like, I don't get why LucasFilm felt the need to produce it as a clearly-intended-to-be-canon work. They could have just said "This series doesn't actually take place in the canon timeline, but here's about where it WOULD if it DID" and gotten 6000% more creative freedom that way by only needing to make sure it fit the vibe and tone of the time period they were going for instead of trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole and just hoping they didn't break anything TOO badly once it was forced into place.

[@Sinewmire]

I can understand the need not to make the Empire seem *too* cool - they are the bad guys, we should be rooting for the heroes - but at the same time, if the Empire is too weak, too stupid, too silly, we'll not take the threat seriously. The Empire *are* stupid in Andor, but it's a believable, institutional and dogmatic version of stupidity that we see all too often in the real world, the individual people aren't all incompetent buffoons. The Prefect of Ferrix, for example is clearly quite stupid, but it's the sort of stupid that gets other people, usually civilians hurt. The Mandalorian is guilty of this too - the storm troopers are not considered a threat in-universe, and there's that damn ascended meme of the scout troopers being unable to shoot straight. I think Disney want the Empire to be cuddly enough to buy merch for, and also they pander to the audience a lot.

[@jordanshilander7402]

I couldn't even finish the last two episodes of the Obi Wan Kenobi show because they were so atrocious. Andor, on the other hand, had me anxiously awaiting every new episode to see what was next. Andor was so well done and made Star Wars feel more real and established than other Disney Star Wars content. Thanks for the comparison videos!

[@FlorentPlacide]

Thanks you ! You're perfectly right. The fact that rubbish such as Kenobi can exist in the same diegesis as a masterpiece such as Andor is mind-boggling. It seems Disney has a really loose control over its production. Even if you chose to have multiple visions and writers for a same universe you try to ensure there is a similar quality and production value between these shows, albeit artistically different. With Obi-Wan (and The Rings of Power as well) I've felt taken for an utter fool by a greedy multi-billions company. It was such a letdown, as opposed to Andor, which rekindled my love for Star Wars, and even brought something new that was missing : incarnation, folks everyday life, ambiguity, realism.

[@Munichation]

Everything you said, I can get behind. Very well done.

[@geoff420]

It's crazy how a showrunner who doesn't even like star wars makes a better and more accurate star wars show than actual star wars fans

[@davidswarckof8025]

Thank you for giving Andor the praise it deserves

[@oscarriveraabal9390]

Basically the reason why i HATE star wars movies. Star wars has the potential to be awesome, but when the good guys win everytime not because they are doing things well but because the bad guys are just so incompetent that it is impossible to lose vs them, i just cant stand it. In the sequels it gets even worst (among other horrible things the sequels do).

[@chocolatebar6785]

meanwhile empire strikes back:

[@thegreenestofmachines]

8:52 this was my exact problem with the mandalorian. The stormtroopers managed to miss every other character, but as soon as mando showed up they suddenly became deadeyes so that Disney could show lasers bouncing off mando’s stupidly overpowered armor

[@MrArchilus]

It's not even funny how much better Andor is than basically any Star Wars

[@senyormort]

The more you know about Star Wars the more you apreciate Andor ❤ First time watching, but I have a good feeling. Subscribed ^^

[@GrammarGaming]

the empire in andor made the viewer feel very small as the highest ranking people we saw were a few mid ranked ISB officers just working, whereas the kenobi show throws in vader and reeva constantly because why the hell not

[@nursestoyland]

In ANH, stormtroopers were ORDERED to miss, due to there being a tracking device planted on the Falcon, but in the process they were now thought to be poor shots in every Star Wars movie since (except rogue one)

[@HoneyBadger1226]

In the books of Allegiance and Choices of One from Timothy Zahn, stormtroopers are portrayed as elite enforcers of the Empire with rigorous combat training behind them. They are much less known than the Thrawn trilogy and it's been a long time since I read them, but they are fun and I love how multiple plot lines run so close to each other with Mara Jade, the 5 stormtroopers and Luke, Han, Leia meeting each other. Thrawn also makes a cameo. But the main plot remains that 5 stormtroopers can make a difference, utilizing their training, discipline, and creativity to fight enemies that often outnumber them. The books show really well how formidable stormtroopers can be and just how strong they are compared to regular enemies like average rebel fighters or gang members and cartels. Compare this to Star wars rebels. That's where the clowning of the Empire really began I think.

[@vettelfan17]

Ay, nice to see someone else recognise those books, I'd still say Allegiance is my favourite Legends book.

[@jacklang3314]

@@vettelfan17same I loved the bit where they bluff the fort into surrendering.

[@vettelfan17]

@jacklang3314 You mean when the 5 of them enter the government building with Cav'saran and pretend there's a whole battalion behind them?

[@jacklang3314]

@@vettelfan17 yeah that one. It’s been a while since I read it.

[@vettelfan17]

@jacklang3314 yeah it was pretty awesome - really enjoyed reading their adventures and interactions with other movie characters/Mara. Have you read Choices of One?

[@jazzx251]

The only thing missing from Andor was the opening crawl: "A N D O R It is a time of hopelessness on TV One by one, Disney Star Wars projects have failed to create any kind of excitement similar to the original trilogy; through shoddy writing, phoned-in performances and overuse of 'The Volume' - a massive digital soundstage that can replace the natural locations of an entire planet. With nowhere else to turn, they call upon a renegade script-writer who never liked Star Wars in the first place - but is now their only hope .... THIS is his story (literally)"

[@wildwaters8348]

I was so mad they just blatantly copied Fallen Order

[@SamuraiPie8111]

Andor and Rogue One understood that the Empire had to be a threat that the rebels had to overcome with great sacrifice. Seeing the "Empire" in shows like Obi Wan and Mando make you wonder how they managed to take over the galaxy when their average foot soldier is just target practice for the main character.

[@cadenobles2497]

The band during rix road was sooo good

[@markslima1557]

Andor gave me a real sense of dread of the Empire, and I could feel hope being snuffed out, which really added to the true heroism and drama of the final episode. In Obi-Wan, I had to endure the comic villainy of the The Inquisitors, perhaps the most un-intimidating and laughably un-scary antagonists in the entire Star Wars galaxy. Couldn't be a more stark contrast. Can't wait for Andor Season 2.

[@puliyogre]

14:55 "you're being paid to write these stories" obviously not being paid enough Master Samwise.

[@lingricen8077]

The actions scenes and shootouts in Andor are extremely well thought out. At the beginning of the first episode, Andor is held up from behind by 2 men. He knows this because he heard their voices. BUT he DID NOT know if they were armed, what they were armed with, and who was armed, as he had his back to them. Andor BAITS them to get close to him by getting one of them to search his pockets (even getting then to search two pockets) - its at that moment that Andor saw that one of them was UNARMED, and only ONE of them had a blaster. It was only after he had this information (which he gained through cunning and self-preservation) that he initiated a plan of attack. Also, when he is with the group planning the robbery, it is revealed that Andor keeps a blaster by his rear. A couple of episodes later, when that guy is suggesting that he and Andor make off with the payroll, you can see Andor reach a hand toward his rear and leave it there - foreshadowing that he was going to shoot the traitor.

[@C.DWoods]

You are so underrated dude.

[@MetatronsRevenge613]

I would say Andor is BETTER than the original trilogy, It showed how rebellion isnt clean, how infighting between the Empire and Rebels made things spicy, it was what Lucas wanted to show, but was too blinded by his personal Biases to make

[@lukewood7341]

Would you consoder making a video looking into Rebels season one's portrayal of the empire? I always found it interesting how it starts off like Kenobi and ends up a lot further down the spectrum towards Andor

[@master_samwise]

That definitely sounds like an idea worth exploring. I have to admit I've yet to get into Rebels despite trying a couple of times, but I know I will eventually watch it.

[@jdr_02]

@@master_samwise A lot of people get put off by Rebels when they first start, and I completely understand it. As someone who values Rebels as highly as Clone Wars, I think perspective has a lot to do with it. Sure Rebels is a kids show, but more than that it is a fun show, to sit back and chill to. If you enjoy lower-level comedy, I honestly think Rebels is the funniest Star Wars media outside of the Lego material. All that to say, IMO, the best way to begin Rebels is to get into the right mindset. That being, don't expect it to blow your socks off. Don't even go in expecting it to be all that special. It's a very different show to TCW structure-wise, though not thematically. Star by considering it an episode-of-the-week fun show, rather than waiting for big set pieces and moments to happen. They will come when they are ready. Rebels is about the small things over an extended period of time, and over time they become part of the bigger moments. You don't have to remember every little detail, but you are rewarded if you do. This lets the show's heart settle in, and be better received when it becomes clear the show is more than it first appeared to be. There are obviously criticisms / problems with the show and you will encounter them, and I think every person has to make the decision for themselves of whether or not these are deal breakers, or if they can acknowledge them without it ruining the show.

[@elpinguinovolador4114]

Hmmm the only good thing about the rebels empire is thrawn, even in the last chapter the silliness and impossibility roam rampant, the empire's fleet is kidnapped by whales as if the turbolasers couldnt kill them, the troops on the ground killed by giant wolves (go tell a wolve to charge soldier with a m4, being giant only makes them easier targets) a group of like 5 dudes makes their way throught a whole stormtrooper garrison and wins with only one casualty, and that is only on the last two chapters and i am probably missing a lot. Imo if you want to take the SW universe seriously rebels is a insult in most metrics.

[@Blanktester685]

almost as if its a kids show made for kids...

[@bend7726]

Season 1 of rebels is bad but people have to remember this is a show made purely for kids in mind on disneys kids channel Disney XD. So it's going to be more goofy all round. Yes, it's Canon, and yes, it makes the empire look like a bunch of jokers (gets better towards season 3/4), but you've got to remember the target audience.

[@SabinaGosse]

Don't piss in my garden and tell me you're trying to help my plants grow.