The Shocking State of MMORPGs in 2023

[@sawmanUK]

Thanks for watching, if you want to see more long form content like this, leave a like *Update* Guild Wars 2 Review here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4GnqomfiNWBoKM&ab_channel=sawmanUK

[@rei9990]

im kinda interested after you left eso and trying bunch of mmo games what about doing mmo games tier list?

[@joshuawall7933]

For some of us the key to getting into guild wars 2 was being in guild wars one it felt like a smooth transition imo I remeber guild wars 1 and the time i spent in random arenas on the beach getting into debates rocking out on my necro with the dance emote Iv nothing but fond memories with guild wars 1 Guild wars 2 imo they still need to tweak some stuff to recapture that feeling the first game did like having actual Guild vs Guild fights I logged in countless times in gw1 just to watch the weekly guilds fight each other while i had popcorn and chat with others it was an experience that no game iv played since has been able to capture Guild wars 1 I remeber prophecies then the expansions that followed I got least 8k hours in that and possibly over 8k in guild wars 2 more time in those 2 games then all the other games mmos and single player games put together The 2 just complimented each other so well but if your just jumping into gw2 without playing the first you might not like it and the starting story parts do feel a bit bland .... The days of fun PvP in guild wars 2 those are probably gone in alot of ways its like ESO in terms of what state the actual PvP is.... Guild wars 2 is doing ok the fact their planning out these lil expansions is a glimmer of hope it can recover but in alot of ways it feels like their content releases is literally a reskin of what ESO and New world are doing for their releases Ill still go to New world but so far nothing game changing happening on any of them

[@ArantyrDarkhand]

Black desert its the only mmo with descent action combat in the market... far superior than anything. TO bad the rest of the game its boring has hell outside pvp, and duels, and arena of solare. GW 2 has a good combat too, the thing is its not a game for you to die playng. But theres hardcore activites like craft the legendarys etc.

[@ayoheynns1327]

Try to play Age of Conan ( best setting and visual style) and Warhammer Online(best group pvp).

[@ArantyrDarkhand]

Theres ppl playng age of Conan? The game exist?@@ayoheynns1327

[@vland9900]

I’m stuck in that point where I can’t play single player games because I just wanna play MMORPGs but when I play MMORPGs I get bored and do something else

[@jaymcdude1291]

I share the same sentiment.

[@wassupdoc4204]

Yeah me 2

[@XxViperMortalxX]

Stop playing for like 3days +, uninstall all mmorpgs, install 2 single player games one which is very linear and rather short and another thats more open world/sandbox in which u are encouraged to explore, profit. For real tho try that, recomendations i can give for linear short games are resident evil 2, 3, or 4, dmc 5, tomb raider games, shadow of war. For more exploration/long time, the witcher 3, no mans sky, days gone, elden ring, borderlands 3/tiny tina, divinity 2, skyrim, fallout 4, red dead 2. Just make sure u pick games that are not similar, for example re2 and days gone are both about zombies, even tho gameplay is completely diferent it still is simillar in that regard, or shadow of war and the witcher are similar too. Something which can work well is like dmc 5 + days gone, tomb raider + elden ring, re 2-4 + borderlands 3, those are just examples so u can better understand what i mean. Well this is what i have done, worked for me, hope it works for u because i was exactly like that... not a single one of my friends play mmorpgs so i get bored insanely quick, but i have played mmorpgs all my life so it was hard for me to play a single player game.

[@ghozter1]

That must be because you don’t do the end-game content in whatever mmo you play. Nowadays they’re designed with that in mind, it’s no longer about being casual, exploring and socializing. It’s about progression and beating hard encounters, ofc there is exceptions but those MMO’s are not that successful because of it.

[@skylerfreeman1173]

​@@ghozter1guild wars 2 ❤

[@mangoman93]

Guild Wars 2 is a bit janky at times and has struggled to really find its identity for most of its life span, but the core of the game is just something that I really love. The way the open world is designed with its detailed maps full of secrets, dynamic events and huge boss fights invites you to explore and rewards you for it. And since there's shared loot and basically no griefing you're always happy to meet other players and people going out of their way to help you with a tough fight or a secret is really common, not to mention the commander system where you'll often come across 50+ people following a player with a tag that's visible on the map, who is leading a large meta event. The hybrid action, tab-target combat also feels great to me and there's quite a bit of depth in build craft, something I really miss in FFXIV. That combined with no sub and horizontal progression, so I never feel pressured to keep up with any sort of grind (but I can still choose to grind the shit out of the game, if I want to), has made GW2 my go to MMO for years.

[@alyasVictorio]

Yeah! What worries me is its slow growth since it's not F2P, not even developing nations can't afford enough to buy GW2 tho- Edit: 7:48 Phew! Thank god, its base game is F2P, except its expansion tho- 😅

[@Despond]

Problem with GW2 for me after spending thousand sof hours is while some may not like gear progression, having essentially none you start to just accumulate so much wealth with nothing to do with it. It's still one of the greatest MMOS ever made but I can't bring myself to play it anymore. If you're a new player, then you're in for a treat.

[@Throck69]

I refuse to go back to GW2. Its so bland, and the latest expansion is just as dull. They have struggled for so long in regards to class balance its ridiculous because the game has been going for so long, you would think it would be generally fixed by now, but nope! Sadly, GW2 probably will keep going for another 5 years. Id rather try GW3, than go back.

[@Pirokh]

@@alyasVictorio You can buy the entire game with gold to gem transfer.

[@Aeteris]

@@DespondGuess I'm doing something wrong, because I'm too often find myself broke, and I'm playing since late 2013!

[@OGWardenofMyHeart]

I went from ESO to GW2 and loving my time there. ESO is a hard pass for me now, just lost interest in it.

[@daze4135]

Getting into gw2, it might be the class you're not finding fun. I know I struggled to pick the game up years back when I tried playing Warrior, but everything just clicked when I tried elementalist. And the weird thing is, now I main warrior! It's different for everyone, so YMMV.

[@BeeLine705]

I very much second this! Elementalis has such an interesting rotation and mechanic. Tho Revenant is best for an ESO player's perspective in my opinion (because of the energy-management system and low-cooldowns). Warrior and Ranger is just sooo simple. Necromancer and Engineer is just tooo static. It's weird to me how different these classes feel. Altough everything is different when Elite Specs come into play with expansions

[@shetookthekids484]

yeah i agree with this, when i first started on launch i played a thief because i played rogue in wow, but it didnt quite grip me so i didnt play gw2 again until 2 years ago, and honestly playing a reaper necromancer is fun as hell compared to thief for me. the perfect thing with gw2 is you can just go into the mists on a new char and try out endgame specs to figure out what you actually like before you level to 80

[@june_o9]

Begin my journey as Ranger where eventually Reaper end up being my main. Felt much better with this spec so as the game allows you to have 3 specs per proffesion you gotta end up with something that you like. Once you do so, game ends up being just way more fun.

[@Bluewind0110]

It took me 3 separate tries to get into GW2. It finally clicked when I deleted my first character (human) & switched to an Asura thief. I think taking the time to get invested into a character's story & a class I had fun with is what really did it for me.

[@reinhartdrial8060]

I started up gw2 , my reasons for quitting have always been "I dont understand gear progression at end game" . This time I bothered to figure it out and now its become my daily driver. Its honestly pretty good , and its got no sub fee.

[@alcedof.6629]

Pretty happy with Gw2.

[@Arrow154]

As a gw2 junky with over 1,000 hours now. I quit the game when I first started. I despised the movement. It was so clunky to me. Then my friend convinced me to try it again and try a different way to move. Action cam, rebind tab targeting, try and make it like an rts. So I complied. And then it consumed me because the game became extremely fun, especially once I started getting loads of options of enforcing how I play.

[@arandompotato3382]

Gw2 is actually worthy of all the prize people give it, as most aspects of the game are medium to high quality, and the main focus of the devs is actually the player experience and player freedom, they respect your time so they try to build the game around giving the player a good gameplay experience, rather then hooking you in with various systems or psychological tricks that most MMOs use to keep ppl addicted. Other then that, Im 100% you will enjoy the pvp in this game once you get used to the combat and find a fun build. If you enjoy the ESO sieges, you will love Gw2's WvW gamemode, which is the best relam vs relam game mode you will find in any MMO, here you can find massive zerg fights, few hours long sieges, skirmishes, and small scales to 1v1s. Combine all this with a fair and non predatory business model and you've got yourself a very happy and sometimes spoiled playerbase. In conclusion, gw2 is Above average in most aspects but really the best when it comes to WvW, as no other game does this so well.

[@GenDrake3]

Nah it's just another copy of wow

[@sanguin3]

@@GenDrake3 Every MMO is a copy of WoW, even the retail WoW.

[@Tidiuus]

​@@sanguin3 except the MMO's that came out before WoW was released, DAoC, Everquest 1, Runescape, Ultima Online, etc..

[@crimsonpotemkin]

I find that these kinds of comments come from people that are super new to the game and don't actually know enough about it yet. They just got in, got wowed with the outward appearances and think they found the one. Half a year later they're already playing WoW or ff14 again. And who can blame them, gw2 has some of the worst player retention I've seen. And the reasons for it are so plentiful you could write a book.

[@arandompotato3382]

@@crimsonpotemkin Nah, got 5k+ hours in the game and still enjoying it a lot. I already listed all the reasons why in my original comment. The ppl that say it's just another copy of wow, or that the game is bad because it has a low retention rate are the new and uninformed ones. GW2 was actually designed to be as different to wow as you could get while still being a fantasy MMO, they did later on borrow some stuff from other MMOs and WoW did the same, GW2 came up with fractals before WoW did mithic+, most ppl agree they stole the ideea from GW2. And about player retention it's not as bad as you may think either, it's just that gw2 doesn't punish you from taking breakes like other MMOs, it's very casual friendly and doesn't really push you to do stuff, leaving it up to the players to do what they enjoy. Problem is, most players forgot haw to play for enjoyment and want the game to hold their hand, telling them what to do and giving them rewards.

[@Notsram77]

Man... when Guild Wars 2 finally clicks with you...

[@eliascarlsson2624]

I dont see how so many people love that game, ive tried to play it a few times but its soo boring

[@sedalf]

A friend of mine, who played WoW, just played until 20 and leaved (OK, I forced him to try 🦆). GW2 is not for everybody. I also started the game for 3 times. But now, after watching Streams and YT Videos, learning Pages on the Internet with hints and tips, I started to understand the game better and it feels much funnier. You need to enter a Guild and ask there the stuff you don't understand. But maybe, we will see each other in Tyria 🤝☺@@eliascarlsson2624

[@potheadraccoon8536]

its boring asf i dont get it either @@eliascarlsson2624

[@Hofniel]

@@eliascarlsson2624I have the same issue with FFXIV. I tried to get into it 3 times, but simply can’t start enjoying my experience there. All this while being a gw2 long term fan girl :p So yeah man. Tastes differ

[@IndyGW2]

How dare you not liking gw2? I'll be getting in contact with the MMORPGs' authority

[@Eso_lags]

If eso would just steal ideas from gw2, like the currency exchange, balancing pvp/pve/bgs separately, the reward system, legendaries etc, it would be such a better game. Like they are similar games when it comes to monotization, its just gw2 feels a million times more rewarding with everything you do.

[@gameburn178]

GW2: so rewarding... but with on10% of the player base of Wow. So, not rewarding? For all of the mismanagement and bizarre treatment of its own history, WoW rules. Somehow this has to be analyzed properly. If this was any other type of entertainment (barring music -- music is mysterious), there would be a better understanding of why this is.

[@amandagray825]

GW2 has been my main mmo for awhile now, and while the base game might leave something to be desired (I personally love it, but that could be nostalgia), the game really shines in the expansions and living world seasons (except for a few…missteps). It’s one of the few games where you see devs playing with other players…I can’t remember a day where I didn’t see one in a meta event, in my strike or fractal group, or in my wvw squad. They’re everywhere, and it’s nice to see.

[@SephPumpkin]

I haven’t played in years but I remember having a lot of fun just killing world bosses with a lot of people and running around with a farm train

[@slashrocks19801]

Gw2 is Good played it for quite a while until Elder Scrolls Online came out then completely stopped playing gw2 I felt that teso was superior in every way.

[@amandagray825]

I’m the complete opposite. Played TESO for years, then picked up GW, and feel that it’s superior in most ways - but actually neither of the games really scratch the hard, prog content itch for me. The diversity in taste and experiences in gaming is so fascinating to me. Glad you found what you need in TESO!

[@iamArahad]

Pretty in depth analysis, MMOs are the most unique genre in gaming, sad to see how they're doing nowadays.. keep up the good work.

[@sawmanUK]

Thanks mate, i appreciate the super thanks

[@OjiOtaku]

The one thing about Lord of the Rings Online you failed to mention. One can walk from The Shire to Mordor. So, you can literally walk into Mordor... and, if you are below certain level, die instantly from the overwhelming presence of evil. The map is huge and is still being worked on. Any new Lord of the Rings MMO will fail if it can't retain the accuracy of and recreate the feeling of the books. Also, to a lesser extent, the first 3 Peter Jackson movies.

[@sawmanUK]

Haha yea I mentioned this in my original review , there’s even a challenge to do it as a chicken!

[@MarijuanaFireFighter]

lotro's maps are so lore accurate that tolkien courses taught at oxford have used it in their classes

[@MikeBeltMikeBelt]

ESO has been in such a declining state. One public relations blunder after the other. Predatory monetization. They really try and play on a fear of missing out with frequent events instead of just trying to create fun game play. PvP of course has been flat out ignored for years. What should be the best game out there of course ruined by people in the suits.

[@sarlanvili9688]

i mean right after release they manged to not fix some know, balance breaking bugs for half a year... then fixed them to reintroduce them similarly with a new stat set. also they promised cyrodiil city wouldnt be behind a paywall since it was anounced as core game feature... guess what? they cashed in. they had a pretty telling start and it probably didnt get better lol

[@radandpaisley]

30 dollar DLC for a two year old game that had a massive free expansion seems reasonable to be honest

[@ajmoore7649]

I'v enjoyed gw2 lately however I find it hard to get into without a guild or a friend group.

[@0707RD]

I played Albion Online for a while, it was a lot of fun. But i eventually got to a point where i (thought) i was geared up, and i caught a glimpse of how deep the grind was. It was an abyss like a black hole.

[@changedmynamee]

Yeahh MMOs are fun until you’re at the point where anything takes 10+ hours to do

[@Tulp_gaming]

I quit WoW for GW2 and it’s the best. Loving it right now. It’s like ESO but better

[@june_o9]

Same here man. Not like I regret time I've spent in Wow, but Gw2 just hits differently. After 2,6k hours in Tyria, I still love to play it every day even for a bit. Thinking about comming back to Wow and grinding gear to catch up with all other players it's just not for me. No issues with Gw2 on that field which is a huge thing for me.

[@rlarkinson]

You said you like open world pvp, if that's the case when you next try GW2.. just play world versus world and ignore pve all together.

[@BeeLine705]

GW2's expansions are not advertised/stressed enough :( The lvl 1-80 zones in GW2 are old, outdated, clunky, and unbalanced. It's like vanilla-WoW compared to Dragonflight... you have to be nostalgic or "be special" to enjoy it. The expansions are polished, have much better graphics, have actually challenging enemies, filled with exploration, metroidvania elements, intricate world-design, new combat, new progression-systems; and the story is not that childish either. I'm sure Sawman is not alone: MMO veterans trying GW2, only to find boredom. Static combat, one-shot enemies, repetitive heart-quests, childish main-story... I totally understand them unfortunately

[@BeeLine705]

And besides the 4 expansions, there are 4 Living World story chapters (mini-expansiosn); and combined they offer a much-much larger world than the lvl1-80 zones.

[@riotwrrrwolf4590]

I can understand how the vanilla maps and story can feel boring for MMORPG vets... but I was pretty new to MMOs when I started GW2, I only tried vanilla WoW and could never really get into it or justify having to buy a subscription, so for me it was actually a nice experience because it wasn't too difficult or overwhelming at the start. I did half of my first map completion on foot, with my minions gang lol. It was quite brutal when I went to HoT for the first time XD

[@jrafel1707]

Vanilla GW2 is extremely boring. People who are new to the game should probably level several levels until they understand the main mechanics of how builds/combat works, but there is so much that the game does not explain that people that just pop in will miss unless they spend a lot of time researching, they won't understand 1/2 of what the game has and what they can do. It also doesn't hold your hand, just says go do what you want - which to people who are used to the game telling them, do this, then ... do this, then.. do this look at the game and get bored because they don't know what to do! Path of Fire to me is where the game was the best.

[@Woryen]

​@@jrafel1707 Path of Fire, YES. I installed/uninstalled gw2 several times before hitting lvl 80. But then I jumped straight into PoF, and I was hooked!

[@rabbit4400]

Fully agreed, I experienced the same when I tried out WoW due to all the hype coming from other MMOs and its even worse than GW2 since its not horizontal.

[@arthurpendragon8192]

my personal problem with SW:TOR is the fact that although it has big zones there isn't as much life in them for the amount of walking/mount traveling you do between locations. edit: This is in reference to the supposed city planets or denselyt populated areas that still feel empty. The story was fun but aside from that i found it hard to do much of anything with as much joy. Conclusion: i recommend Star Wars The Old Republic for the story but...that's about it.

[@Ehxx]

New world removed a zone ffrom regular players and locked all existing players out of their lackluster endgame content if they dont buy mounts..

[@flix1179]

11:11 IMO defining pay to win has become something very subjective (in terms of "negatively affecting" the game)... the objective part in "pay to win", is that it would be gain something by paying, therefore winning, but These things I earn, can I only earn them by buying them? Will they give me a HUGE advantage in pve and pvp? Will this affect the experience of other players? There are several questions that we must take into account. I think it was a bit of sophistry on your part to put New World as a 'regular mmo pay to win way', since the majority of the pass consists of skins and cosmetics in the premium part. The more 'op' things are in the free pass, as well as in the pass third season, has 2 artifacts, but both are in the free pass

[@ardentdfender4116]

What I was right there in the very early 2000’s when what was playing MMORPG came onto the gaming scene in a huge way and so many players back then at the time was discovering playing them as online game back then. It was a very captive gaming audience as it wasn’t that many online games to play, let alone good ones by standards back then, very few actually. Times have now very drastically changed going forward in time to today’s gaming environment, all the variety of games, distractions, social media, KZbin etc and it’s a completely different world. What used to be, will very likely never be again and where so few games and one in particular dominated the entire gaming landscape. That ship has sailed and gone forever.

[@painfullyaware5221]

FFXiV; "The combat isn't too bad." 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣 Enjoyed the video, though. I was glad to learn about New World, which has been on my mind lately.

[@xX.D3DP00L_Xx]

say what you will about eso . thats all, go ahead and say it. ill probably agree with it. d3d gam

[@hellfiremech473]

overall i would agree with 90% of the information on here. The one thing i will say as far as new world i think you are completely off base. The season pass offers nothing that gets you further along then anyone else and does not really offer huge benefits. nothing about the season pass is pay to win and while yes the paid pass offered better stuff, there is alot a ton of good crap from the free one. The pass was super easy to max out as i did it in the span of 2 weeks which most games ive played takes a lot longer. As far as the xp boosters they also dont really feel pay to win for me. The weapon one is mainly for completionist people and the other ones dont really get you super far in the 2 hour time due to the time it takes to gather in bulk. i dont think they really fit into the game but the season pass alone gave me 5+ of each so it gives you a ton of stuff that you likey wont even use as most of us already had all our weapons done and professions.

[@gndmofall]

Well, if you ask me, I should say that as far as we can see, looking at it, by and large, taking one time with another in terms of the average of departments, then in the final analysis, it is probably true to say that at the end of the day in general terms, you’d probably find that, not to put too fine a point on it, there wasn’t probably much weight in it in one way or the other, as far as one can see at this stage.

[@Thaa_Farmer]

I actually found your channel because my eso account was banned forever. One character was named after a band for around 6-7 years or so with no issues and one day I encountered a bug and submitted it and the next day I couldn't log in, I checked my email and there was nothing from zos and nothing I could do to find out why I couldn't login. After contacting support I was told my account was banned forever because one of my characters name. I don't know if someone reported my name or some employee got offended at the name of the character I submitted the bug report on. I spent about a week battling for my account until I was able to get a phone call with support and got my account back but the reasons they provided didn't match their tos as they claimed a zero tolerance policy to what my name pertained to, I did check the policy and while there was some like vague terms behind it there was no clear indication of a zero tolerance that they claimed pertaining to my situation. I battled so hard for it because I was like 2 items away from having 9 trait research that took ages to get and a lot of solid memories with it and though I got it back I stopped playing. In that week of issues I found your channel and started questioning playing it anymore because its fun for a week then all the bs comes into light and I just couldn't do it anymore so I uninstalled it and I appreciate finding your channel and your content. I wish eso wasn't garbage because its a cool universe.

[@Freedom-of-speech4]

Wow that's really shit I feel your frustration but I can't expect anything else from zos.......

[@trav-gg4sg]

What band?

[@Stashmyash]

GW2, try world versus world in that game.

[@asfsdfh]

right? guy must not have found the best thing in gw2. wvw got everything, drama, spies, civil wars, competitive fight guilds, siege dumping on corpses... idk why anyone would immediately trash gw2 when theres wvw. most entertaining shit to me and been playing it for 5 years.

[@shetookthekids484]

@@asfsdfh perfect week for it with the world vs world rush event too

[@Koyote2033]

Game for the ESO bashing and did not disappoint. Highly predatory and no respect for their player base. Cant even gift crowns any more. It's circling the drain and further demonstrates Bethesda's laziness. I see no difference in how ESO is handled vs how starfield was designed. They're just banking on old good will from past games and are just hooking fools for their cash.

[@louismanet3656]

I actually left ESO because of the community. Most woke I've ever encountered in an MMO

[@OleksandrProkhorovskyi]

That people who just cannot leave startging locations in GW2... come on. I understant it's complicated game but not so much.

[@OleksandrProkhorovskyi]

ok))), this dude has no experience in MMO genre AT ALL. GW2 It's just like with every title in this video. Dude, too understand game so big as MMO RPG you should play not 20 hours but more (+ in parallel with this watch something in KZbin (guides\builds uns etc) or better have friends to play in it) sometimes it's 200 or even 2000 hours.

[@potheadraccoon8536]

its not complicated bro the hearts make that game easy asf which is my main problem with it the game is as easy as eso which is what made me quit eso to begin with .

[@The-Lost-Librarian]

I think the biggest thing with MMOs is friends. It's all not great going solo, or playing with randos, which includes randos in guilds. I've been doing wow for the last couple years, but its getting stale. Giving Guild Wars 2 a try. Sadly alone, so probably won't stick. I think more games need to be designed like Guild Wars 1 was. Can be played fully solo or with friends, but no sub or silly monetization.

[@XiaosaGaming]

My only ever complaint with GW2 was once I got the best gear (full legendary btw) I never bothered picking the game up again except to follow the story. I'll more than likely go back to play Guild Wars 1 more often than not just so I get the GWAMM title which I am nearing.

[@photograhy]

You talk about MMOs AND DON'T MENTION LOST ARK! How does archage make the cut but not Lost Ark!?

[@pspdsi22]

litterly only liking so you will play GW2 if you decide to start playing again seriously consider talking to someone who knows whats going on perhaps some direction to guide your gaming might help improve the experiance.

[@xiaodaoputh2548]

If you check active player count, GW2 is way more populated than WoW for the past months, and no streamer has noticed this. So no, WoW isn't the best current MMO atm.

[@Freedom-of-speech4]

I'm not bashing gw2 I used to play very interesting and beautiful game but wow for the time being Is by far the most populated mmo, even their private servers such as turtle wow got thousands people playing that says everything.

[@AJ-rc5lr]

ESO is a unique one on this list, it's because i am sure 60% of ESO players really play it as a single player game, since the content is very soloable, imagine a single player game but with an added online vibes with real players running around towns and in the random road across the world. and with a real trader market and a fun faction pvp. that is an added bonus for the social aspect I have been playing ESO as a single player since they introduced Tamriel One, and yes it's very enjoyable for someone who just like story heavy quests

[@KiddDaPhoenix]

A lot of people would love to see you try out ffxiv more, I'm sure =) The story is great! I also fell out of FF after 10, but 14 has gotten me all back ^^ FF is back, baby ^^

[@professorchance8515]

You have to find the right class for you if you do play guild wars. I did not enjoy it until I started a guardian and it was a ton of fun. Good luck! :)

[@eribus8057]

Nah, it isn't shocking. We've been there for a couple decades.

[@GW2MindOfAMadman]

Hey, man. I'm a GW2 fanboy, but I do see why people might not like it. Especially early on, when they just kind of dump you into the world to wander aimlessly and basically tell you to do whatever with not that much guidance can feel not great to some.

[@PapaFenn]

Unfortunately if you want to get into Archeage Classic, the land rush was botched just as much as the main games with no land to be gained besides an 8X8 and their servers seem to be down every 2 to 3 days. Just checked how much land costs, you're looking at 800-2000 gold.

[@nonamenoname9352]

For old school runescape, the best way I can describe it as is: its a combination of an old point and click adventure games as well as typical mmo grinding. The reasons I think it really stands are: 1. its one of the only pre wow mmos that still has numbers 2. Its one of the only mmos that is not > 75% combat related content (I would actually put osrs around 45% content is combat related or derivative) 3. Its content creators make some of the most dedicated and extensive content. 4. The SHEER amount of direct communication between players and the devs is astounding, I have never seen any other game with this much direct back and forth between the developers and the community. Overall, I do not think it's ever going to overtake and become the most popular mmo out there, it's its own flavor and has learned that just trying to be like the others is a recipe for disaster.

[@brazil7028]

SWTOR was a great game back in the day. The individual story lines were AWESOME. The graphics and combat systems are unfortunately outdated and it needs a revamp. I played for over a year and had a blast. If they could redo it and make it more action based combat and update the graphics it would probably be popular again. Also I'm really not a fan of free to play games and would much rather just pay like 15 a month and have FULL access to the game without any monitization.

[@SAGERUNE]

Sink 20 hours in to guild wars 2, do the Charr Sylvari or Asari to begin with do not pick human or norn. The game has a very unique world that is very human centric mainly thanks to the kind of unique backstory of the humans being a somewhat alien race on Tyria, but its actually much more beneficial for you to experience one of the beast or fae races to ground you in the types of story telling that happens as a consequence. Play the events, learn how the map metas work, explore...like actually explore. The game world has the best...fuck im installing it right now. You will notice i described the game almost like a single player title...thats because its built much like one. Immersive as hell.

[@jaccexx7565]

ESO is going downhill so fast.. it just a joke nowdays

[@juandoe5651]

I bought it played it for a day and got bored the combat feels dead and way too easy there's no challenge imo

[@hughejass9461]

It's interesting that you didn't get immersed into SWTOR either. As a fellow Star Wars fan I kept trying to play the game hoping it would draw me in, but it never did. I played two alts to max, bought and tricked out properties, even subscribed for a month to get some extra benefits, but in the end was just bored. Overall solid list although STO (another Cryptic product) is still alive and kicking somehow. Keep up the great work!

[@sawmanUK]

I actually did a review of STO but completely forgot to add it to the video still an amateur when it comes to content creation it would seem!

[@ironmaiden93ofangmar]

I always tried to get into SWTOR, and while I did enjoy it every time I tried it, it wasn't enough to immerse myself too much and play for countless hours.

[@gameburn178]

SWTOR is worth it just to play the Agent class on the Empire side. Brilliant writing. Actually decent companions. The game is seriously underrated. treat it as 8 relatively inexpensive Star Wars-themed single player games. Absolutely worth it.

[@gadomoya]

My main mmo is GW2 after I had gotten bored of FFXIV. Both of them are slow burners into much better experiences but where I feel like 14 is getting to a place where it is homogenizing everything and the format is getting stale; GW2 has been experimenting a lot in both positive and negative ways. My favorite thing about GW2 is how open world feels like it’s populated and collaborative because of world events that happen on a timely basis, there are tons of fun collectibles in horizontal procession, gear stays relevant forever so no rush to catch up to the latest item level, and my favorite mode is their version of Cyrodiil called World vs World.

[@battlebots1]

When you try gw2 (since the like threshold has been surpassed) I'd recommend trying out pvp. You might get your ass handed to you being new, but i love the mode as it's incredibly skill based and very deep. And you can try it out from any level as it's completely equalized stats (just make sure you have an armor piece in every slot, you cant fight naked unfortunately)

[@kogorun]

I also find GW 2 oddly... Bland? Unfun? It has a lot of good stuff to it but it just doesn't come together? Maybe it's because I played Warrior, though.

[@PossibleTango]

MMO's never innovate all their systems. They're all stuck in the past. One MMO will make the combat system super fun but everything else is the same. That goes for all MMO's I've played that interested me at first. They innovate one aspect but everything else about it is still stuck in the past.

[@GitzoTw]

You forgot about EVE Online, that game is amazing

[@illinoisvalley9121]

Your hours in FF8 explains why you use the music and sound effects so much, including this video. I’m still out here waiting for ESO to stop sucking but that isn’t likely.

[@sawmanUK]

I'm not even sure how much time i have in ff7 and 9...

[@EricN73158]

OMG the first game.... I miss so much, I should really play the classic one. Everything b4 3.0 was THE BEST! if you played AA after 3.0 you missed so much it was such a good game. I miss it so much.

[@oopomopoo]

I'd suggest for people in the mmo loop to take a step back and play older mmos like anarchy online, final fantasy 11, ever quest 1/2, lotro, d&d online, guild wars, etc. They are definitely aged but honestly there's a reason people are still playing them in 2024.fhey just have that factor common mmos are missing and I can't explain it. Older mmos didn't have 4k textures and flashy spell effects so they had to do other things to hold players attention. There are private servers as well for some of these. I've been playing ffxi horizons private server and enjoying the old school grind. Gathering the party to go grind together and just being social with each other, being cool when people meddup skill chains and when someone has to afk for a bit for wife / kids, everyone is cool about it compared to other mmos where I've been kicked from parties for a 3 minute afk said in chat. I want to reiterate though, older mmos didn't have flashy things to grab your attention and had to hold it in other ways that current mmos don't grasp.

[@StaryBrudnyLis187]

I would love to go back to eso but i cant, every time i turn it on i move few steps and turn it off. Im almost an year clean, was an day 1 player

[@Freedom-of-speech4]

I'm surprised you didn't try bdo but again with all those mmos you already mentioned i didn't thought you had time. Great video as always you never fail to entertaining your audience 👏 👍

[@Warkrunner]

There's 1 MMO that's been under the radar for many people, and I was wondering if you've ever taken a look at it: Project Gorgon. It's a Steam release that's ongoing in development, headed by 2 people. It's one of those games that has you "figure it out," but with a sense of humor. Complex skill system, shitty graphics, but the focus is always gameplay first. I find myself coming back to it every so often whenever they get a couple large updates. Monetization is there, but more optional and a side factor. It doesn't break gameplay at all. Has a free demo

[@potheadraccoon8536]

i played that game its deff not worth 40 bucks that price tag is why it hasnt grown for the most part

[@gameburn178]

Just announced its de facto closure. Too janky and no development for a while.

[@Ghostmantle1]

Doggo strife hayes, good content!

[@oopomopoo]

Regarding guild wars 2, I feel that. For me the issue was I was playing the wrong class / race. Playing plant felt like it was cool but during the 20-30 minute attempts it just didn't click. Went human and it was more a esthetically pleasing and then I tried different classes and got hooker on.. I forgot the name, a dlc class. Been a few years but yeah, class definitely plays a big part in enjoyment

[@StArShIpEnTeRpRiSe]

ArcheAge was in concept, the perfect game for me. It was just perfect by it's concept.. But I had 2 major problem with it. 1. The business model, pay to win and monetization you mentioned. 2. Not solo player friendly. I can build my own ship, but I need a crew of other players to use it. But those people probably want their own ships too. How cool would be a whole fleet of ship, instead, there is needed 5-6 player to run a bigger one alone. I know it's more realistic that way, and it's an MMO, but if that 6 player could run a fleet rather than a single ship (and choose who's ship they run) it would be way more fun. Fallout and Elder Scrolls games are best with solo, modded, free from the "fairplay" rules of MMOs. That titles not fit for a GREAT MMO. The last MMO I enjoyed was Star Trek Online, but since they broke the Dilithium exchange for Zen option, I lost the motivation to play it and gave up all hope. To me Gacha games are slowly replace MMOs. They are far more F2P friendly, and even the most F2P friendly ones make the greatest profit to devs with almost AAA game level profits..

[@critcuts]

In ESO if you're playing on Xbox or with an Xbox controller holding down R3 well highlighting an enemy with your crosshair will put a highlight on them that I've heard referred to as tap Target not sure what that is but that's how I always prioritized the main boss in the room in PVE because all of your attacks that are single Target will only hit that enemy, it also works good in PvP always has if they don't turn invisible they're pretty much screwed you can see them through walls even

[@sawmanUK]

Yea tap target puts a highlight on the enemy but in the 9/10 times I've tried to use it, i can guarantee it doesn't work, ESPECIALLY in PVP :'(

[@bombyvonbomberson3285]

@@sawmanUK Really? Works 100% of the time for me on PC until they are out of range when it comes off them

[@critcuts]

@@sawmanUK oh I did forget one thing if the enemy has a mechanic's where they teleport, that gets rid of the highlight for PVE stuff I mean but yeah love your videos dude

[@ivansaric5167]

As a hardcore wow player, i might add to people reading this, new world is a such a better and refreshing experience to play. However, im currently at level 26, and have been enjoying it pretty much. Also i feel the game is much more oriented to the PVP type of players, but definately worth the money at the moment :)

[@baska-]

I had some fun with Blue Protocol in Japanese until I got banned. Amazon will surely ruin it, but hopefully it'll be fun to play until AoC Alpha 2 starts.

[@pizzaismine7307]

I have attempted to play eso for the longest time. I got probably 300 hours collectively across both pc and PlayStation. What kept me coming back was also the pvp but it’s dieing from what I see and to get into the big league pvp I have to grind so much shit that I don’t want to do.

[@markjackman1712]

I feel so fortunate to have had the experience that was to play wow and ultima online in their prime. At that point there werent many other MMORPGs around to compete with so both games felt like they had a huge playerbase and the servers never felt dead, with WoW in particular you would always see players around even in the most remote locations of all levels...questing etc plus they were actually good games, good enough to demand a subscription and retain a lot of its players through that. It now feels like that scenario will never happen again since there are so many MMORPGs around and people always seem to be looking towards 'the next mmo' if the game which they are currently playing even slightly dissappoints.I also feel that with some MMOs now you have to pay for things (im talking about things like gear slots for example - not actual playable content) which should be in the game at launch and were in games more than 10 years ago- New World is terrible for this.

[@555Plus]

OSRS is a Cozy MMORPG that you can pick up and play on your phone for 10-20 minutes while doing something else. Early and mid game are very fun because there are a lot of content and quests to do. Reaching end game is very grindy though.

[@BlueNumber77]

please please PLEEEAAASSE if you ever make a part 2 of this video, try DC universe online! it was one of my absolute favorite mmos I played as a kid!

[@sawmanUK]

Ill add it to my list :)

[@killerkram1337]

I've crossed the 3500 hour milestone in guild wars 2. something about that game clicked for me. Its hard to describe but when i play im always having a good time and my general happiness goes up. its odd but yeah game is fun. recently the star citizen itch came back and ive been addicted. there is nothing else like it. graphics are great, spaceship fighting is insane and they are all detailed, the bugs are hilarious and frustrating, the new arena commander stuff is wild. every time i play i feel like that spaceship lego guy from the lego movie. once you embrace the jank its pretty awesome. if they can make that game bug free i will literally quit life and just live on microtech

[@captillon3963]

You got Black Desert downloaded but didn’t mention it. What are your thoughts?

[@shetookthekids484]

you should definitely give gw2 a go, if you like cyrodil in ESO give wvw a run in gw2 its very similar. This week is also the perfect week to do just that as they have a bonus event on for world v world pvp where you get rewards and ranks quicker etc. Also i saw that you had a level 80 character, try giving the meta events and world bosses/strikes and fractals a go. The starter story is pretty bland but its like 12 years old, dlc stories improve the story telling ingame drastically and the new maps are so much better than the low polygon runescape graphics vanilla world design lol

[@mflax4331]

I played some of the games you mentioned, but I'm a casual gamer into the lore of things, I do only PvE and I play mostly sole. Aside of buying the game, I don't like adding reallife money into it. Especially with online games you only buy the right to play. You have no property rights and according to ALL of the available TOS, you can be kicked out anytime without any legal remedy. Thus I'll stay careful. Now the games I know and my comments. - ESO - best to play with time payment - as casual gamer I don't get enough playtime to continue you that while at the same time playing other games - Guild Wars 2 - when it started they said you wouldn't pay twice. Now they had several DLCs and each was sold at full game price while the old versions got F2P. At the same time they nerfed several loved things multiple times with new DLCs. Additionally I was kicked / silenced on their forums for just expressing my own opinions. I liked Guild Wars 1 more and I'm still playing that. - Neverwinter Online / Star Trek Online - they nerfed some nice features or removed them. Currently I'm playing STO with my brother (we have fleets / guilds there). We are both Trekkies. But I stick to story mode. No endgame. - Lotro - I like Tolkien (the book and the Jackson movies) but not that much. - SWTOR - I play it but only the first 3 chapters of the original release. They are the very best story ever made. The rest for me is "meh"! BTW chapters are up to around 20+ - WoW - simply not interested. My hack and slay interests are back to good old games: Titan Quest / Grim Dawn / sacred 1 & 2 and a bit of PoE

[@Adirtan]

great vid :) also lets be honest here, New World have huge potencial, yes kinda to late, but if they keep work they asses as they do now, game can go only up

[@ramschasar7654]

New World isnt really pay to win. Getting through the season pass is a minor advantage and doesnt help you in pvp and mutated expeditions, which is the hard content. Its by far not perfect and i am frustrated at times as well, but credit where credit is due. New world came a long way and the devs clearly put a lot of work in it. Also the artefact item system adds a lot to the game in my opinion.

[@sawmanUK]

Yea Ive jumped back into New World recently and im enjoying it. There are elements on pay to win but very mild as it stands. Like the level cap being behind DLC for instance. But time will tell how bad it gets i guess.

[@adinimal]

I haven't had time to watch KZbin lately and I didn't realize how much I've actually missed you're videos. It felt like coming home. The Fable music, your awesome voice telling jokes that actually make me laugh, and starting the whole thing with complaining about ESO 😂 And I'm both happy and sad to hear you might be getting into ESO again next year, then I might have to go do it too 🫨 Hope you're doing great, doggo! 🐶🤍

[@gamingguru2k6]

The best way to describe OSRS is Click the mouse number go up. Love it or hate it. That's what it is.

[@Despond]

Archeage has one of the most intrusive AC systems that gives access to files no developer should ever have. It's actually really bad and I am surprised how it hasn't been banned. Download it at your own risk, even if nothing happens the fact is they can access and send data that has nothing to do with the game.

[@pppoopoo4514]

I'd play GW2 if there were more than 5 abilities at a time and they weren't based on what weapon you have

[@zed6701]

oldschool runescape is the best mmo in 2023 just look at the awakend bosses

[@ayoheynns1327]

I play Lotro, an amazing world, interesting quests, a pleasant atmosphere. Try to play Age of Conan ( Best setting and visual style) and Warhammer Online(best group pvp).

[@ramschasar7654]

For Star Wars... a new mmo in vr would be a perfect fit. Spacecombat works well in vr as do lightsabers and shooters. I would try it x)

[@maironannatar7335]

I was about to comment about GW2 but man, I am happy about how positive the comments are about it.

[@adawg3032]

The thing is aggressive monetization takes away any sense of accomplishment. Theres a reason why OSRS is so popular. The bonds system IMO kind of sucks but Jagex had no choice because if they dont give people a legal means of buying gold then they lose out and players can fall victim to credit card scams. However at the same time the game still provides a sense of accomplishment because the coolest looking gear isnt something you can only obtain by buying. You can literally play runescape entirely free with good game knowledge and be on the same playing field as someone who buys an aggressive amount of bonds. The point mostly is nothing is "locked" behind a paywall, you can obtain everything without paying. Also games that have leveling that doesn't last long enough eventually cause people to reach endgame too fast, and when you become max level it means you remove leveling out of the game loop and the game better have some good endgame content to keep you entertained. And that endgame content better have some very rare and hard to obtain items. Like the tumekens shadow or twisted bow in runescape, these are massive drops that take lots of hard work sometimes days sometimes weeks to obtain. Some games you just kill a boss 30 times and you get the awesome drop, this for me kind of takes away from the significance of earning that drop in the first place. Games like EVE online i also very much enjoy. The endgame content for EVE is territory disputes and logistical. You join a corp and you become aligned with a team of people who have no choice but to defend their territory and ensure a steady flow of materials to keep well armed. The game has somewhat settled down and wars are not as common but they do happen still, and i believe the next expansion is going to trigger some large wars. Participating in an eve war is an experience like no other. Another game i really enjoy is Albion online. This game somewhat borrows from many other games and does it very well. It has a dota style combat system in an open world that kind of feels a bit like runescape, however the economy is very alive because they borrowed from eve online where the game is lose everything when you die and 50% of your gear on average will be deleted. So items are in high demand and also the game borrows from EVE in the territory ownership sense where territories can be owned by guilds and large wars occur very often. The devs have done a great job by having reset days where all of the towers defenses become reset which is when guilds will make huge massive moves to acquire more territory, and the devs even go into spectator mode and stream this event on twitch. They have done a great take on a full loot free to play MMO because even if you do whale hard and buy the best gear in the game buy buying gold (premium currency) you can get that good gear and then get ganked by 20 people in rag gear and your shiny whaling is just feeding the community. The game achieves balance by turning whales into losers because it is a game where you die a lot.

[@isth3reno1else]

If you're not gonna talk about the games you havent played and rate them as well I just cant take your opinion seriously.

[@simex909]

I think the problem with GW2 isn't that you need to play 200 hours for it to get good-- it's good at the beginning and gets better at lvl 80. The problem is that they've fixed so many of the problems that MMORPGs have, that it's almost unrecognizable to people who are familiar with the genre. If you're an MMORPG player, you expect you'll have to learn things when you start a new game, but you also expect to generally understand what the systems are trying to do and the general shape of things. If you apply these assumptions to GW2 you will be extremely confused. For instance there's a guy in the comments below who says he bounced off of GW2 the first time because he didn't understand the end-game gear progression-- which is VERY different than every other game and will not be intuitive to MMORPG veterans. I also struggled to understand the gear tiers at first. However, once you do wrap your head around end-game gear, it makes perfect sense and you'll wonder why every game doesn't do the same thing. Another example would be instanced content. Before I started playing GW2 I'd looked at the list of instances and thought "there's not a lot of content here" because there's only a few dungeons and raids. Once I finally tried the game I realized, that dungeon/raids metric meant nothing because there's also strike missions, and fractals with 4 tiers of difficulty, not to mention the open-world metas many of which are essentially drop-in/drop-out raids-- some of them are more complicated than raids and require multiple 30+ player squads working in concert with each other. You almost have to pretend that GW2 is a new genre of game, or you'll be constantly tripping over your expectations.

[@ac2.024]

I understand not being able to get into GW2, I played the game for about 500 hours a few years ago and then I started ESO. Never gone back since. GW2 has a leg up on ESO when it comes to the cash shop and open world random events, but aside from that I found it really difficult to find a substitute for ESO even in GW2. I cant really agree with your take that "ESOs issues start at the mid to end game", I feel like that's the take of someone who's put thousands of hours into the game and got burnt out. I'd say the issues with monetization and whatnot become apparent a couple hundred hours into the game so it wont apply to new and casual players. So if you're a new player just give it a shot, the game is like €10 and it's the best story MMO for questing by far (out of the ones inplaued at least)

[@CrystalPrelude]

You used Prelude Rebirth in your opening, that deserves a like. Now I'll watch the rest.

[@TaLa7aMcHo]

About GW2. I loved it and its the best MMO now-a-days IMO. Its fluid movement and everything blends together, It's game model is buy and keep and it doesn't MAKE you make time so you can play enough to say that you paid your time in the game. I don't need to grind for hours on end for the 0.00001% chamce for BIS gear. You get the best you can get and enjoy the game. Skins and mounts are not locked behind RNG boxes and you can get skins in the game store for in-game gold converted to gems. Honestly the most enjoyable MMO I've EVER played. I would not even mention the pleasent combat feeling.

[@Pirokh]

I like GW2 because if I burn out I can just take a long ass break and come back and have a large quantity of content to do but not have to worry about gearing since i'm already legendary geared on every weight.

[@ZombroESOGod]

805/1069 likes as of my like! Edits for like updates: 811/1069

[@jorgediaz697]

Same ship with GW2. I know its s pretty good popular game and a lot of friends like it but every time y try to play i get tired si fast if it. Its just personal preference but i do think its better thsn WoW. Still great analysis!

[@gameburn178]

What you are dealing with is what philosophers have called a "practical contradiction" -- you know cognitively, somehow, by most criteria, GW2 is a better game than Wow. But even with no subscription cost you find yourself putting more hours into WoW rather than this so-called better game. I have had the same experience. So have probably millions of people. WoW is in real terms -- practical terms -- a better game. Not sure why, might be the combat, might be the joy and humor in the game. But it brings me back, while GW2 doesn't.

[@michaelsullivan723]

FYI there is a lot of good solo PVP content in Albion with corrupted dungeons and mists now, not sure when you tried it but I've been having a blast in these solo PVP activities. That being said, if you don't like moba-type combat, it might just not be a suitable combat type for your preferences.

[@caioluizfernandes7832]

Honestly, ESO is about the lore and I only don't play it anymore because I live in Brazil and we don't have a server to have low ping saddly, but if someday I go live in EU or USA I definetely will come back to it

[@GenomeGorilla]

the JSH doggo is a win!

[@zenwilds2911]

I hope next ESO expansion leaves behind the doom and gloom. Give us modular pieces for wooden cottages. Give us alpine forests. More Skyrim terrain. House instances without buildings in them.

[@puddingsimon2626]

Albion online is a great game, best pvp ive ever had in MMOs and extremely deep in mechanics and tactics, but it is like a From soft game, it has a filter and it will filter the unworthy out.

[@sarlanvili9688]

its combat is like a worse moba copy and you oftentimes are allrdy at a disadvantage if you play anywhere else but the us.. still dont get why they moved servers at release. i loved the idea of hellgates and invadable dungeons though... would wish some more games had stuff like that.

[@puddingsimon2626]

@@sarlanvili9688 the combat is made like this for a reason, it’s made so it’s lag friendly, you play from Europe you have a 100 ping all the Time, yet i Never had any problems with this, also there abzahlest with 600 players dukeing it out so in order for it not to lag out like crazy they just made a simplified mobs combat system that still allows for high skill gameplay.

[@louismanet3656]

Deep mechanics and tactics?! Yeah those five skill slots are next generation...

[@puddingsimon2626]

@@louismanet3656 have you played the game? i have and i have been in the top 5th guild in season 21, same shit with league of legends. "Deep mechanics and tactics?! Yeah that one passive and 4 skills are truly next generation!" Very VERY dumb take of yours my guy. could also say the same about ESO. But as i saied, Albion has a filter and it filters the unworthy out, and your one of them.

[@Kkvta]

Loved the vid mate. What's the name of the flute song at 3:40? Lmao. The memes in the video killed me. And btw, as for gw2, pvp in the game is awesome, way better than eso tbh. Played it for about 1500 hours lol, 90% of it pvp and wvw. You should give it another try.