The Side Of Jefferson vs Hamilton Historians Won't Tell You

[@aquaxbat]

The guest is Timothy Shenk and his book is called Realigners. Not including these things in the description is pretty annoying.

[@Iconolaste]

Thanks I was looking for its name and the book’s title

[@MWhaleK]

Thank you!

[@MMAli-rq8kd]

You're right ! They always forget that in these clips, because it was "mentioned" in the full show!

[@ramblinrandal]

Thank you! I was scanning for this info in the included text and it no where to be found. Annoying indeed.

[@billyconnelly3568]

I agree, it is annoying. I'd be a little irked if I were the guest.

[@philliphessel6788]

Yes, the fundamental problem with the premise of a natural aristocracy is how to identify it. The trend has been toward a self-selecting plutocracy defined not by goodness or wisdom, but by Greed (classically one of the Seven Deadly Sins).

[@MWhaleK]

Yup! That the same problem a Meritocracy has, What to mean by merit and how do measure it?

[@xelasomar4614]

Then there's the question of how "natural" is this aristocracy given their ability to change the rules to benefit them.

[@MWhaleK]

Another thing that tends to be left out of the official history is Benjamin Franklin's Albany Plan (a forerunner to the Articles of Confederation and the United States Constitution) as well as the fact that Franklin spent a lot of time with time among the Iroquois studying how the Haudenosaunee or Iroquois League of Five Nations worked before drafting his Albany Plan.

[@billyconnelly3568]

At the end of the day, whatever democracy was going to be forged was going to be deployed only to the extent that it rationalized the rule of the ruling class.

[@1000huzzahs]

"HIstorians Won't Tell You" [Has historian on show that immediately tells you] Maybe they could change it to "Broadway musicals won't tell you"

[@advisorrook]

Speaking as a historian, we are still overall a very conservative group of people. That one historian is now telling you means that all the historians before now wouldn't.

[@Junebug89]

@@advisorrook Wait, really? I would've thought historians are pretty progressive, given they could see the long history of conservatism's failures and the progress made by, well, progressives.

[@advisorrook]

@Junebug89 I could give a whole lecture on this lol. Up until the 60s/70s, conservatives had a stranglehold on the profession. Remember how your initial history education went? How you had to memorize the narrative that they gave you? The theory was "you have to KNOW history before you can DO" history, and that required students to buy into the official, established narrative before they got into the profession. And, since conservatives were in control of the profession, that also made it very easy for them to shut down anyone who didn't toe the line. On top of that, conservative historians only explore/value sources that reinforce their accepted narratives, such as official government documents and press releases, etc. They don't typically choose to explore sources that contradict their ideals. All of that combines to "we're STILL trying to excise narrow-mindedness from the profession."

[@binmcbin1890]

Books on "glorious" wars, "discovering" new worlds and "births" of nations sell better than books telling you your ancestors committed genocide

[@benjamintrevino325]

Actually, the headline should be: The side of Jefferson and Madison you don't know because you don't read enough books.

[@TeenTabernacle]

The history hits of late are awesome! Much appreciated.

[@minty2022]

emma is such a skillful interviewer. her questions are always on point. queen of interview prep

[@jackmerrideww]

Yes. Shes great when shes prepared and reading from a script. Its the off script moments that are a problem.

[@pennycheshire5608]

Ya’ll need to include the author/speaker’s info in this clip! I cannot find the full interview on the main page…

[@advisorrook]

Timothy Shenk. "Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy"

[@jaybee4118]

I understand these are clips from the longer show, one I can’t listen to often as it’s on in the fairly hours of the morning for me (in NZ), but I’d like to know who is speaking and in this case what the book is. You’ve included a description, but not the name of the speaker or the book. Can you please include that in the description? :)

[@sempressfi]

It's also difficult to go through the list of lives since the thumbnails for them don't always show whoever is in the clip lol That being said, I just did that and luckily was able to find this episode (was the Keystone Oil Spill titled one from December)! The guest is professor and author Timothy Shenk 😊 will go double check the name of the book

[@sempressfi]

Woot, got it - "Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy"

[@carlkolchak4437]

Thank you Jay! Amazing!

[@carlkolchak4437]

@@sempressfi Thank you!

[@basedtruthpiller7140]

Hey guys, how many times has Sam Seder said tHe wAlls aRe cloSing iN?

[@chunky539]

Madison and Jefferson are merciless.

[@danielray7965]

Well, hate the sin love the sinner.

[@billyconnelly3568]

@@danielray7965 what?

[@danielray7965]

@@billyconnelly3568 It's a Hamilton reference. Burr says that "Madison and Jefferson are merciless", and that's Hamilton's reply.

[@billyconnelly3568]

@@danielray7965 Thanks

[@brucehunter8235]

I knew that about Madison, Chomsky has been talking about it for decades.

[@basedtruthpiller7140]

Noam Chomsky publicly endorsed Donald J Trump.

[@oxman5571]

"Me so very American. Me love downtown Berlin in heart of Alabama." -- Alabama "Man."

[@soulknife20]

@@basedtruthpiller7140 No one cares

[@philliphessel6788]

Basedtruthpiller, where and when did Chomsky publicly endorse Trump? I can’t find that, but I do find him calling Trump “the worst criminal in human history” (which I think hyperbole) in _The New Yorker_ .

[@atticstattic]

@@basedtruthpiller7140 For dog-catcher

[@technologic21]

Vile exchanges have a long history in the US. "So seditious, so prostitute a character,” Hamilton wrote of Jefferson. “A man whose history...is a tissue of machinations against the liberty of the country,” Jefferson replied in publication in 1792.

[@JohnVerdon-JohnVerdon]

It would be nice to know who your guest speaker is and what the title of the book you talk about is - at least in the notes.

[@sempressfi]

Agreed. It would also make a ton of sense to link to the full episode. I went through the last couple weeks of liveshows to help us out in the meantime lol The guest is professor & author Timothy Shenk and the book is Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy

[@JohnVerdon-JohnVerdon]

@@sempressfi thank you very much :)

[@astamilio]

Is the title a joke? You had a historian on talking about things that are not controversial among historians.

[@nicholas4727]

This guy is an outlier among historians. Many historians are still conservative minded. So get your panties out of a bunch and think a little bit.

[@Theoriginialdonguillory]

Awesome interview.👍🏾

[@billwatt3775]

Thanks Emily. Always learning.

[@cogito919]

Yeah Hamilton was not great, especially how he started and failed to ease the Whiskey Rebellion. The other thing that always bugged me about most of the original Federalists, including Hamilton, was how they agreed to ratify the constitution without including the Bill of Rights, despite constant urging by anti-Federalists like Jefferson and Dickinson.

[@dc7370]

we ended up with the world's biggest prison population & spreading infrastructure destruction

[@billyconnelly3568]

The problem with mainstream history is it starts from the premise that the USA is fucking amazing in all ways and then purports to explain why that came to be.

[@xofpi]

Please add the name of the author and his book in the description! ‘Sa matta you?!

[@RobinHerzig]

What is the name of this historian?? What's the title of his book 📚!? He's great I'm seriously interested - terrible oversight leaving his name out in both the clip + the description 😕

[@crispyblack8779]

Did they ven say the name of the book or the guest’s name? I’d love to read it.

[@MMAli-rq8kd]

Realigners by Timothy Shenk.

[@LennyKaosium]

Excellent, interesting conversation. But I missed the authors name and the title of the book you're discussing. At one point the author was referred to as "Tim" I believe. Which isn't quite enough to look into his work.

[@advisorrook]

Timothy Shenk. "Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy"

[@MissterBest]

Great piece, Emma

[@AV57]

Great interview, but a misleading title. Historians do posit theories like this. Perhaps, you guys meant that public school history textbooks won’t tell you this.

[@matsal3211]

What’s the name of his book?

[@advisorrook]

Timothy Shenk. "Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy"

[@freedomofreligion3248]

Ya, I thought as much.

[@nickxoxo]

what is the guest's name?

[@Niel2760]

Tim

[@advisorrook]

Timothy Shenk. "Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy"

[@johnmcgovern5372]

I'm British and I already knew this.

[@n0tk0sher]

We'll make you a medal.

[@esta8651]

British people know everything.

[@advisorrook]

Did you say this in the superior British accent as well?

[@billyconnelly3568]

I think his framing starting especially at 2:45 is very helpful

[@billybigwig1154]

Love the show. Left is best.

[@stevenwymor1398]

I have no idea who this author is nor do I know the title of his book. Not even as much as a footer on the screen with his name. For all I know, this guy could be someone’s nephew who did a presentation for his “social studies” class. How about an introduction with a brief listing of his CV? Not even a mention in the description. To quote your buddy Marin, WTF? 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@advisorrook]

Timothy Shenk. "Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy"

[@stevenwymor1398]

@@advisorrook thanks, but again, not sure why none of that info was included in the actual interview or at the least, in the description. Seems like a big MR fail.

[@TheRedneckBudha]

This title is clickbaity asf guys

[@nicholas4727]

Jesus you guys are fragile

[@CityBoiATX]

Here comes the right wing to cry and call MR liars.

[@bkbland1626]

small "R" republicans. Dig it. Aristocracy is wrong, in ALL instances.

[@grisflyt]

Yes, aristocracy is wrong. Now, lets get rid of it. Better late than never.

[@belkyhernandez8281]

Progressives are always under the impression they are the only ones who know history because it's all a "big secret". . I just saw another progressive show where they claim nobody knows MLK was a socialist, especially conservatives. It's so sad. Every conservative I ever met distrusts MLK and the civil rights movement precisely because they see it as a socialist plot. Being a socialist is precisely the talking point used to discredit MLK. Progressives need a better understanding of the typical citizen if they ever hope you communicate effectively.

[@grisflyt]

@@belkyhernandez8281 Sadly, lots of American's, at least up to recently, didn't know MLK was a socialist. It's not mentioned in the schoolbooks. One military leader--black by the way--said MLK would have supported the Iraq War. We are talking about an educated black man who still doesn't have a clue. Why would any rational person support America's cowardly slaughter of women and children in Iraq? That also shows that nothing has fundamentally changed since MLK. Reagan, Buckley and the other racists hated MLK and Civil Rights. But then we are talking extremist ideologues.

[@tylerhackner9731]

Interesting

[@nohbuddy1]

Who is this guy

[@advisorrook]

Timothy Shenk. "Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy"

[@darkranger116]

damn yo this guys based asf

[@oxman5571]

"Me am super-American. Me think Benjamin Franklin was best Pres-o-dent. Me go to Riyadh, Alabama, all the time for fried lutefisk." -- Alabama "Man"

[@toneyingram732]

He was Just another lying racist

[@toneyingram732]

U can't find a good racist unless they are 6 ft deep living close to their God Satan

[@afridgetoofar1818]

Now that one of the weakest attempts at trolling I’ve ever heard 😂

[@afridgetoofar1818]

“Me hate Constitution, me like tyranny by majority” -Sederistas

[@oxman5571]

@@afridgetoofar1818 is such a silly little girl.

[@lilmoe4364]

What is the side historians will tell you? I don't even know that

[@Dantalliumsolarium]

I hadn’t heard of the free soil movement before. God the roots of our system are so corrupt, I don’t get how anyone likes them

[@coolidgedollar2154]

Because the world at that time was full of much more despotic stuff as a rule, so this seemed at least like a step in the right direction.

[@benjamintrevino325]

Davy Crockett was a Free Soilist.

[@billyconnelly3568]

"Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy" The guest is professor and author Timothy Shenk

[@sakomanlee]

Plutarch did pretty well for himself...I guess. However, if he had been lucky enough to have been born in the last 50 years, there is no way Parallel Lives is not a top 3 podcast.

[@worldgate989]

I feel like when your talking about the democrat or republican party you should indicate 'of the time' because the parties have become the opposite of what they were.

[@jmn327]

I guess to be fair to the elites of the 1780s, you have a young nation with a pretty isolated population (most people rarely ventured more than 20 miles away from their towns in their lifetimes), so whether they even *know* the people running for president is a real concern. You have a genuine liberal dislike of hereditary aristocracy among many of the framers, but a similar liberal belief in meritocracy, the whole "people will defer to their betters"/"an aristocracy of the educated" idea, without having seen the way that develops in a non-monarchial society. Even so, there's no getting around that one of the core principles they operated around was the preservation of the wealthy's property rights, while conceding, which would inevitably create a self-selecting aristocracy among the wealthy as their riches were passed down over generations.

[@rorysimpson8716]

I dont want to be overly critical, but this lacks context and starts the conversation in the middle

[@celestialnubian]

I'm happy when they bring actual intellectuals on the show. I like the main cast ok enough but they all are kinda dim at times, Emma especially.

[@lisadioguardi5742]

This is the worst title for a MR video ever. Historians are people with advanced degrees who have spent decades studying and interpreting historical sources, they have published peer reviewed books and articles, and they are trusted to teach in universities. We always talk about how we believe the experts, and historians are experts. They may disagree: Listen to them present the factual evidence and make their case. Just know the difference between a historian and someone who hasn't been trained and cherry-picks their sources. Telling people not to trust the experts unless they tell you what you want to hear isn't much different from the scientists who go on Fox News to tell you climate change isn't a problem.

[@FloatingErgonaut]

Historians are not doctors. Different rules at play. That needs to be acknowledged, otherwise you'll afford economists and historians the same amount of trust you afford to doctors and physicists and before you know it the modern understanding of the world is eurocentric and neoliberal

[@Henry-em6pb]

Condescending jew lectures me on how my forefathers were bad... what else is new? Wake me up when a discussion about Hamilton mentions the foundations of modern nationalism, sovereign federal banking, or protection of domestic manufacturers.

[@Admiralty86]

If we have approx 25 amendments over approx the last 250 yrs, that's once every 10 years and we're way overdue for some changes and additions and clarifications. The constitution is at the very least outdated.

[@themeanhornet1070]

I guess he doesn’t write about “how to improve your benchpress.”

[@Eevcee]

I mean the this in the nicest way possible, but I think Emma would benefit greatly from more speech classes. Too many ums and uhs during interviews

[@advisorrook]

Do you ever give this criticism to Sam?

[@sailingthevic3966]

She doesn’t want to show up her boss, the umm and aah’s king.

[@philmitchell91]

Hanging around with Sam Seder for too long is what that is.

[@kenharrison4704]

I notice he brought up slavery, never hear y'all talk about slavery that is happening today, just about people that turned to dust centuries ago.

[@tomg3285]

Bruh this show lives rent free in your head 😂😂

[@kenharrison4704]

@@tomg3285 I am in the comment section of this and many other shows. I would point out you are in the same comment section as me, why can't I say the same of you ?

[@tomg3285]

@@kenharrison4704 well u hate watch it 😊 and i love watching it and that makes u a huge loser

[@kenharrison4704]

@@tomg3285 That makes no sense.

[@basedtruthpiller7140]

Sam 'tHe wAlls aRe cloSing iN' Seder is DESPERATELY trying to pretend we haven't just found a 4th batch of top secret classified documents.

[@Ahov]

Damn, you'd be pretty pissed if Biden tried the "Refuse to return" or "I declassified them all" approach like Trump

[@oxman5571]

"Me have no friends but me like think we is we. Me eat poop again in the heart of downtown Paris, Alabama." -- Alabama "Man."

[@alabamaman5994]

@@Ahov ....instead of trying to cover it up while going on television and complaining about Trump doing what he 100% knew he was doing? Like that? LOL

[@soulknife20]

@@alabamaman5994 He covered it up? When?

[@alabamaman5994]

@@soulknife20 it happened months ago and he tried to hide it.... he even went on television to say how terrible what Trump did.... while 100% knowing it was HE who actually committed the crime he is accusing Trump of committing. Because he was sure it was all going to covered up.

[@afridgetoofar1818]

The first 30 seconds of this video were incredibly painful to get through. “Uh…um…..uh”

[@oxman5571]

Get a new joke, Fridgetoofarupyourownass.

[@basedtruthpiller7140]

Hey Sam 'tHe wAlls aRe cloSing iN' Seder...... who hires a team of lawyers to move office furniture???

[@MykolasGilbert]

Interesting subject, but your guest is really an awful speaker! He talks so fast I though maybe he wanted to get to the end of the conversation because he had to PEE REALLY BAD!!

[@teddymcfail4359]

Thomas Jefferson was the hippie of his time.

[@GazB85]

Do hippies have slaves who they rape and impregnate?

[@andrewanderson6121]

A hippie who was dressed, transported, and fed by slaves--including in the white house! He was also often in debt and sold slaves (sometimes breaking up families); and sometimes gave slaves as"gifts" to his children.

[@alistairmackintosh9412]

More like a trust fund lefty.

[@billyconnelly3568]

Emma's great but she doesn't have command of the issues sufficient to do a great interview here.

[@matsal3211]

What’s the name of his book?

[@advisorrook]

Timothy Shenk. "Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy"

[@Tribuneoftheplebs]

This is Timothy Shenk and his book is Realigners: Partisan Hacks, American Visonaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy