The Situational Sidegrade

Talking about how different weapon unlocks carve out niches in the TF2 metagame and where competitive players find utility in all kinds of weapons from the Beggars Bazooka and Loose Cannon to even the Scottish Resistance and Eureka Effect

[@krollic]

I truly think the beggars bazinga has a lot of utility, power and feasibility but its skill floor is extremely high compared to other weapons. There's what.. one person in the world who is not shit with it? Probably for the best since it's clearly cancerous to play against.

[@domaws]

bazinga

[@ArbitraryOutcome]

Yeah, from what I can imagine it seems difficult to master and your effective range is limited thanks to the rocket deviation mechanic, but oh man, when someone is an absolute god at overload jumping.

[@godslayer9000]

I disagree with the cancerous part, because my definition of something being "cancerous" is a weapon that is trivial to use yet yields massive reward for the user with little to no risk. Something like conchbox. You give up basically nothing in exchange for basically a pocket medic. And when you combine a conchbox with a medic, it's forces the opponent to respond with something similar, and being forced to use specific tactics is not fun. Bazook is the exact antithesis. Using beggars optimally mandates gunboats, and soldier's melee roster isn't known for it's offensive capabilities and if someone's rocking the gardener with the bazook, say your prayers.

[@MrTriple3D]

@@godslayer9000 cancerous to play against has nothing to do with the skill needed to play it, if you would rather put your balls through a meatgrinder than to play against it, it's cancerous.

[@caprisun445]

@@domaws why is this translated to "they surround themselves"

[@basketcase4605]

I'd love to see a comp deep dive into the Beggar's. It's honestly an amazing example of TF2's bizarre weapon design, and the fact that it has a competitive niche is phenomenal.

[@Wild_Rumpus]

he doesn't really do any analysis stuff, but check out Antoni for beggars clips, he's by far the best user of the weapon i know of

[@puzzlepuddles6712]

beggars is a weapon made for bombs, since you can use the increased firing speed to get more speed, and to unleash a barrage of rockets. the airstrike does that in a similar way but requires more precision

[@Joskilani]

I had one moment a few days ago where I saved the game with the Beggar's Bazooka. It was a casual server with not many people in it, maybe like, 8 to 10 total. It was the last point on Mossrock, I was on defense. I was playing Medic, got killed, so did the rest of my team. 3 people started capping the last point, and I made the decision to switch to Soldier really quick. Still had my MvM loadout equipped, so I had the Beggar's on, said "fuck it" and just started loading it as I exited spawn. Killed everyone on the point with those 3 rockets, and we managed to hold that point down and win the game

[@tloyp2584]

i think the problem with the loose cannon is that it's demo's only primary that actually has to be used like a primary. so it pairs much better with the quickiebomb or the scottish which are just worse than stock in almost every situation. quickiebomb is probably the most viable since you basically have 2 mini stickybomb launchers: one with consistent/close/long damage and one with consistent/spam/mid/close range damage. if you can get someone in that sweet spot where you don't have to charge shots, it's just a straight upgrade especially once you master the knockback and are able to one shot medics. btw the wiki is just lying when it says you have to charge it for 0.1 seconds lmao

[@godslayer9000]

loose cannon's knockback annoys the hell out of players, perfect for a scottish resistance user to get their guard down and lure them into a trap. I managed to stuff a pub push once by luring half of blue upstairs in barnblitz last by spamming them with loose cannon form afar and annoying them, exactly 0 out of the 6 knew I had 14 stickies ready to welcome them.

[@korkad_]

you awakened some old memories talking about the scottish, i remember in 2013-ish there was a demo/scout/engineer player called greatthief or just thief. he was almost full time scottish if i remember right. doubt many could recognise it because i think he deleted his youtube channel

[@feelfreetomockme]

he sandbagged open and played with unlocks to prove that you can sandbag open with unlocks and be effective. its nothing special really.

[@capnfapn]

​@@feelfreetomockme he didn't sandbag open he was just open lmao

[@capnfapn]

​@@feelfreetomockmeactually I think he didn't even play esea just ugc lol

[@razerous7]

I think the beggars would unfortunately never be better than an offclass, very situational. It's just too expensive and greedy for proper full time play. A potentially underrated item not mentioned here is the boots for demo. I've found they can still allow a demo to achieve very high damage as they focus you entirely on your primary and keeping it reloaded. Not to mention 200hp helps demo play his more optimal at distance meta more effectively.

[@valetc6479]

What do you mean Beggar's is expensive? It's visibly made out of trash!

[@KLIXORthe]

Once they buff the bison it will be the perfect supplement to the beggars range problems and beggar soldier will become king.

[@artifactU]

i wish it still gave the speedboost with a stickybomb launcher equiped

[@Fofenho]

​@@artifactUused to have a flat speed buff regardless of secondary but they changed it in meet your match (i think?) because it was way too strong in pubs

[@artifactU]

@@Fofenho i dont see how 10% faster movement speed & 25 more max hp is that much better than an actual grenade launcher

[@blamo476]

I only just started watching this video so I may or may not return with a second comment. I've started using the Direct Hit actively at the start of this year, and someone on the community server I was playing today put it really well: "It's one of the easiest weapons to use for soldier, but it's also one of the hardest. It's odd." In that moment, I was convinced it's the one item I can think of as being a perfect sidegrade. Whereas something like the Phlog puts more focus on an individual mechanic (afterburn) in a way that I find to be more dull than anything (even if it isn't OP). The implementation of the "mmph" meter encourages a passive playstyle right until crits are active, rather than encouraging a player to expand their focus on a singular mechanic or skill through commitment and experimentation. While I don't play comp, I at least respect the depth involved, and I wouldn't be surprised if the DH faced a similar predicament akin to how its seen in 12v12 (albeit becoming more situation as well.) I say this because there are contentious discussions online as it pertains to comparisons such as the Tomislav Vs. Stock debate and which is considered "better." I find that sort of discussion to be incredibly reductive concerning game design. Instead, I use the DH even when I know that I'm giving up the flexibility of Splash Damage in exchange for an increased focus on individual target elimination, appropriate given that Scout is my favorite class. There's almost a "sandbox" approach to this game that I feel is underrepresented both here in TF2's broader discussions and more modern games, and such is possibly the best justification of the "Singleplayer-Multiplayer" philosophy that went behind the development of the original Team Fortress mod for Quake, for as flawed as it can be imo it's what keeps me playing as Im typing this.

[@TMCRGaming]

"Ubersaw is situational better (in 6s)" This just shows the massive disconnect between casual and competitive. And a golden example of any attempt to balance any weapon in both areas of play is a fools errand and is not to be taken seriously.

[@tootheinternet]

Balancing for both casual and comp is possible, but Valve has completely no idea how to do it. Especially when they did ONE balance changes list per year. It's just not possible to test and implement new changes between so long periods of time. That's how many weapons were killed.

[@TMCRGaming]

@@tootheinternet alright fancy pants, give me a balance change thats good in shitter babby mode casual, and sweat swamp curbstomp competitive... prove what you believe in.

[@isildurfour]

the absolute worst thing balance wise about ubersaw is the fact that it has literally no downside at all in 12v12 pubs, especially ones that leave random crits on. 20% slower swing speed means absolutely nothing in either setting, and the only reason ubersaw is fair in 6s is because people can actually aim and you dont have 4 gibus spies feeding the enemy uber for free the entire match.

[@mrstudent9125]

​@@tootheinternetit would be possible if comp and casuals had the same rule set, but they don't. Fighting games, for example, have the same rule set for both. In TF2 you have class limits, only 6 per team and only limited map pool.

[@TMCRGaming]

@@isildurfour well then how would you balance the ubersaw? in tf2c its 20% slower swing speed is replaced by a -10 hp penalty.

[@seanb5356]

I dunno if mention HL here is forbidden, but I've advocating for man treds when pushing one way doors and bombing. The knock back resistance is great as is, but it will throw off most people because how you have twice the air contorl. It also shuts down pyros better than any other unlcok in the game.

[@tloyp2584]

i think the mantreads have insane potential but they just feel so bad to use because you take so much damage from rocket jumps without having a secondary. it's crazy how you can fly straight at a demo or a soldier and not even be phased by airshot. if you're going to die anyway, why even use the gunboats? i'm surprised that trolldier isn't a more viable option considering how broken they are. a trolldier is unmatched when it comes to mobility but you become a pick class so you're a liability to your team but without the fragility/predictability of other pick classes like spy and sniper. it's an interesting concept that i feel hasn't been fully explored but what do i know lol

[@godslayer9000]

Trolldier is mostly outshined by the roaming soldier playstyle, which is just swapping out the jumper for an actual launcher to do damage with. Also sentries, good heavies and snipers completely shit on trolldiers. I don't know about other regions but asian sniper mains are cracked outta their minds, thankfully (and kinda unfortunately) most don't play good sniper due to the risk of being kicked for being too good. so trolldier working in a koth or payload map is a coin toss.

[@KLIXORthe]

@@godslayer9000 He's talking about full troldier, with the buffed strafing of the mantreads. Roamer has less air mobility than full troldier. I think the mantreads strafe bonus and knockback resist could be really strong for really lateral jumps that aim for med picks with perfect timing around the deploy speed.

[@itsasecrettoevery1]

​​@@godslayer9000na snipers are better, the na scene is just better at dealing with snipers

[@kimgkomg]

I feel like its weird to call the ubersaw "situational," since the situation where it is good is one that is basically impossible to predict. There's no game state in which switching to it makes any sense since the enemy team allowing you to get a melee swing is always bad and always something that they can prevent.

[@kimgkomg]

By always, I mean in theory. Obviously these situations do occur, but unless you're intentionally putting yourself in danger to maximize potential saw opportunities, it is more or less up to chance. I would not say that the Ubersaw is ineffective, just not situational.

[@Orome12]

thank you for the informational vids, I love learning about this game!

[@ZackAttackHall]

Id actually love a sort of in-depth talk about sg solly, maybe specifically why it fell out of meta a long time ago, and when it still applicable today I still remember having some heated discussions like 7+ years ago with the team i was in about using sg pocket to deal with stuff, we were trash iron players so its not like it ever mattered I did eventually understand that better mobility = better player, and now usually its a scout job to default baby-sit meds, but still some part of me wants to see some sick solly sg plays (Also i havent played comp since those days, still loosely follow it tho)

[@pdffile9924]

I gotta say your thumbnail game is on point

[@dunkanbulk14]

Loose Cannon is basically the Scorch Shot if it was balanced

[@artifactU]

the detonator

[@asushi9663]

wheres the mig 21-GOAT interview about sticky sidegrades

[@imfatkid420]

24:24 the only reason I clicked on this was to hear about the quicky launcher

[@Varrxion]

3:03 that medic will never know how lucky he was.

[@_4shy]

Would love it if you did a video about the quickie

[@tuna9917]

Your video is so chill wtf

[@hank1693]

Very interesting analysis- I personally wouldn't use "situational" and "sidegrade" in a video discussing these weapons, specifically kritzkrieg. Something being situational defines it as being worse than the default option in most situations, but better in certain situations. It becomes an upgrade; not a sidegrade. To call something a situational sidegrade would be to say that in certain situations, its as good as stock, which is just not true for the kritzkrieg because, as you stated, it is high risk high reward. Sorry for the chunk of text- just my thoughts. By the way, your voice is super good for videos like these. Really good audio quality, really good commentary.

[@SamSGLM]

I thought you would mention launchers for demo. I see mostly the iron bomber, you only run loch. Some use stock

[@BullerPerson]

I feel like the kritz kreig is the most balanced non stock weapon

[@Scout-Fanfiction]

I don't see a lot of meds doing uber and kritz (in casual anyhow). I think it's fun (although keeping that kritz med up can be tricky).

[@matthewquan9083]

I had no idea the solemn vow wasn't banned in sixes. The last comp related video series I watched said it was banned because it invalidated counting uber and made playing medic more boring. Maybe that's not in US?

[@CrazyBoris06]

Thoughts on the dragon's fury? To me I feel like the gun paired with the detonator could be viable on a team that switches out one of the scouts for pyro. It makes the class much more dps and range oriented than easy airblast and easy aim with short range. It can still use to help deal with crits/uber but it is worse than the flamethrower. I feel like it could work if it is played around. Like how a guy who played a full season of sixes with gunslinger engineer

[@Wild_Rumpus]

it was definitely made to make pyro better as a flanker/skirmisher but doesn't seem to fix the class' main drawbacks of slow speed and poor range

[@CrazyBoris06]

@@Wild_Rumpus that's why I through in the detonator for helping with range and I forget to bring up powerjack and using detonator for some jumps

[@mahnamesjakers]

Your voice is pleasant to listen to

[@otmanbudunt6992]

Tf2 comp needs more love , meet yout match did the comp community so dirty

[@Doom_Slug]

It did the entire game dirty lmao

[@thegarfunkle]

direct hit and gunslinger wouldve been better for the thumbnail than beggars bazooka and loose cannon

[@Mardenii1]

I think the quickie bomb launcher would fit your playstyle

[@razeguy9639]

Weapon side grades have always seemed like a strange concept to me

[@spikeslab5922]

You think the kritz would be used more if respawns were longer?

[@Wild_Rumpus]

hard to say, i dont think it would uniquely benefit kritz

[@GayDemonWarlord]

Tf2 fans will tell you tf2 is amazing because it has gazillion unlockables and then tell you to use only ten of them

[@muti7632]

Unlocks themselves are good, but usually its not worth the mindfuck of trying to learn something new.

[@Doom_Slug]

competitive tf2 can be sheer utter brainrot at times

[@tulsatrash]

Altogodahler hand shoes. When the dollar. Konbanwa.

[@pazzeyy-fb6mj]

this is true, as an avid tf2 player, i agree.

[@jovjov223]

Uber Saw isn't meta?

[@kimgkomg]

I believe the solomn vow used to be banned, which made the ubersaw the best by default. The ubersaw is made a lot more polarizing in 6v6. Getting a saw is a lot more impactful than in casual since uber rules the world, but attempting a saw is more often a bad idea since medic lives and dies by his positioning. The ubersaw is a lot better in highlander since there's guaranteed to be squishier classes that medic can get much closer to. They're also more expendable and will often blind charge way out of position for the sake of making space. Nobody wants to be the engineer that does nothing the entire game but feed 25% uber but it happens 🫤

[@yumm186]

2 views in 2 minutes, you fell off

[@SpencerD.]

44 views in 23 minutes, HE'S BACK!

[@Epic-ft2bg]

Woah a tf2 video that doesn't start with "[TF2]" ????? How will I _ever_ know what game this is?????????? 😰😰😰😰😰😰

[@metalblizzard6024]

Solid af vid

[@lessar2721]

So you saying forward loadout change option being on maps would make situationals better?

[@basileusbasil4041]

Beggers video? Anthoni Guest???

[@Bajalet]

beggars bazooka all time... kd 3/7 champ

[@apairofhands3464]

I utterly despise the loose cannon, feels like a scorch shot for demo It doesnt get a whole lot done against buildings, irritating to use, and infurating to fight against. But it is good against players for douboe donks

[@tulsatrash]

Tea F two.

[@pazzeyy-fb6mj]

i've been saying this.

[@truffles]

What was that dpm

[@Timepickles]

Your pfp is a cat. Subbed

[@ericluken1]

Pick me up on med or flank scout in advanced!

[@shadowtaco69]

i liked it

[@fangirlfrisky]

17 quintillion ads

[@skulle]

2:14

[@LNIGO]

You sound like octo

[@techsupportguyofficial]

This video very much proves the point that weapons like the iron bomber are fucking stupid. A couple meaningless stats with meaningless downsides (no rollers is the best upside). I like ACTUAL side grades like the loch n load.

[@techsupportguyofficial]

The donker is my favorite weapon in the game. Stupid fun and a dopamine farm.

[@aloedg3191]

I am a

[@zain6140]

silans bastar

[@slugmundo]

first

[@imaginarymenageriemanager6303]

Fix your audio, it sounds like crap.