The Slow History of Fast Rail in Australia

[@francisjohnston8014]

90% of provincial governments in the english speaking world are one feasibility study away from building high speed rail

[@jayzo]

If only they were willing to invest. Imagine not being able to see the link, ageing, crumbling infrastructure, because nobody can be bothered to invest in its upkeep other than the bare minimum.

[@ziggybadans]

Governments: "We need to commission a feasibility study on this expensive project" Review panel: confirms it is feasible Governments: "I'll ignore that"

[@PlannerfromOz]

Great to see the video on this mate - also good to see that Utopia episode mostly disproved :)

[@matejaobrenovic3338]

It's funny that we might get Bunbury Fast Rail before East Coast HSR

[@vincentgrinn2665]

really great fun seeing so many propsals get canned because of it requiring 'significant subsidies to build and operate' as if theyve just discovered that you need like.. pay for infrastructure to be built? the only roads in the country that dont require significant subsidies to build and operate are all universally hated because their private operators are charging out the ass in tolls

[@ForTheBirbs]

Thanks for the detail on the CSIRO proposal. I worked there at the time. I remember a lot of discussion and detailed route planning. 22:49 FYI Wauchope is pronounced war-hope. Cheers

[@shayneramsay1388]

Honestly Sydney to Melbourne direct through Canberra is the most logical, same with Sydney to Brisbane via the eastern corridor as that is where the most of us are.

[@thugfrongang]

Running directly through Canberra is pretty infeasible. West of the city is a large mountain range, with really tough terrain. Without a ludicruously expensive ~50km tunnel, it would be impossible. Better to leave Canberra as a spur.

[@dulcinealee3933]

totally agree but moved the station in Canberra too far from Canberra City Centre.

[@rudbarnes8577]

An excellent summary of the history of the concept. Well done!

[@ryanlove5332]

Excellent Video. Very well researched and presented. What is the best way for rail professionals to keep in touch or follow what you are up to.

[@flygonbreloom]

Absolutely phenomenal video! Thank you.

[@MasterNinjaOfShadows]

Love this video. After visiting Europe and Japan it was very depressing riding back to Newcastle in the slowest train possible. One of the things you could’ve mentioned is the constant lobbying by the airline industry to keep trains bad to ensure that their golden triangle doesn’t get touched.

[@Perpetual-sk2ee]

One of the major issues that face these "studies" will always be ROI. No matter how many studies are done the end need for a positive return in an acceptable amount of time becomes a policy roadblock. The ticket price needs to justify the sticker price was one phrase used to describe previous iterations of HSR. And sadly right now the sticker price for the current HSR proposal, even in the low end, is hard to justify when we have so many other issues that need funding. HSR doesn't address the housing problem, school funding, hospitals, regional divestment and a plethora of other pressing issues. Would it be great, sure. But unless it is done at cost and recoups its investment through high pricing it is a hard sell. This has been the sticking point in the past and will continue to be so. Should Labor go ahead I know many who would vote Liberal to counter it, along with other issues of course. Maybe if we hadn't sold our natural resource rights to mega corps we would have HSR by now. Plus any HSR proposal will get airline lobby involved without a doubt. Upgrading the line between Melbourne - Canberra and Sydney is important regardless of whether we get HSR. Same with Newcastle to Brisbane and the necessary additional track modifications inside the existing SydneyTrains network to increase capacity on CCN, isolate freight from passengers as much as possible and ETCS signaling etc. These are still viable options to take and can be most cost effective.

[@dulcinealee3933]

A very long video but an excellent one and I can see how passionate you are about a high speed train network and improving regional and interstate train networks . I watched it to the end. How can ordinary Australians who are just as passionate about seeiing rail networks advance and improve "push" the government to act rather then wasting endless amounts of money on feasibility after feasibility studies which all end up "in the bin"? We really do need a high speed train between Brisbane and Melbourne even to Adelaide via Canberra. I forecast that it will happen in 50 years or more years time by 2075 or 3000. Because it took 5 years just to get the current D sets running between Syd and NC and we still have not seen the new CAF Civicity trains replace the 50 + year old XPT trains yet which on my recent trip Syd Melb looked as if it was going to fall apart by the time it reached Junee!

[@arokh72]

I'm 52. I've been waiting for a HSR, or at least some form of VFT, for the majority of my life. Whilst we have anti investment and anti rail losers running this country, especially the LNP, I'll never live to see a decent rail service here, even the Fastrack model. Imagine if Dutton put the same energy he's put into his white elephant nuclear power proposal, into Fastrack or HSR.

[@qjtvaddict]

Run for office

[@ConnorEduard]

Great work on this one man. Very well explained and presented!

[@Senstraizaa]

Such a great video! Always good to hear more people discuss such a unique history in Australia. I'm keen to know how you create your maps of linking different places in Australia (e.g. Melbourne to Brisbane with a respective line and highlighted circles indicating the region(s) and/or stops). Keep up the quality content!

[@TheEarthHistorysConfusing]

Clara will go ahead, they started Melbourne gelong. Qld to nes rail is being built, bridges are being raised for double stack containers. They have the backing. It will be the 15 minute smart cities. I’ve been watching since it started and made videos.

[@beerskee]

Great video! Basically no politicians want to make the final decision, much easier to have another study and hand it on to the next person.

[@connorcore7008]

Also, I too would love a print of XPT-E. It looks amazing

[@DandamanV]

Excellent video, now that I've moved from Sydney to Canberra I am more invested in HSR than I've ever been before (and that was already a lot!)

[@mnogoldfish]

I believe that the terms of government should be longer . They are too afraid to commit to a project that they can’t complete. Rail is the best way to move people and goods around the country.

[@cabbagepatch8947]

Or infrastructure planing is long term and truely independent. Yes, I watch Utopia.

[@andrewclarke6899]

Rail's share of freight in Australia continues to decline, sadly, except in the business of grain and minerals. Customers find that once they've got a load on a truck in e.g. Melbourne it's more convenient to leave it there. More wheat is going by road these days, and that trade used to be virtually a rail monopoly. Meanwhile Australians in general prefer to fly or drive. One reason for driving is that unless your destination is a big city, there may well be SFA public transport when you arrive there.

[@Shermos]

@@andrewclarke6899 Many people I talk to hate flying, especially with today's cramped seating. They simply don't have a better option.

[@jaycrank8163]

This episode helped with understanding this problem.

[@mattjohnson1727]

There was a proposal to build an international airport at Kooragang Island just north of Newcastle with a Transrapid maglev to Sydney, both would have been built simultaneously and would have replaced badgers Creek Airport.

[@Sweatymilkshake]

Im not Australian but I still found this super fascinating.

[@mudelta4068]

It all makes perfect sense once you realise that governments in Australia are fully owned subsidiaries of Qantas, Virgin and Transurban.

[@LiliaArmoury]

i find it interesting that the vft would have followed a similar route through vic to an interstate bus route i encountered while staying in gippsland

[@leonkernan]

13:52 oh my…. AN XPT! (Heart rate increases)

[@tomtj460]

Re here in Victoria.Forget rebuilding the old north eastern lines,leave them for freight.Instead ,why not run a medium fast train(200kmh) in the easement up the middle of the Hume freeway.(like the new diesel/ electric /batteryhitachi HTR412 models which can run on diesel outside of the cities,then use their pantograph to slot into the suburban system).Some of the benefits would be no level crossings from Albury to Melbourne.I know there are a few bends but some of these are near towns so the trains would be slowing anyway.The stations would be at the overpasses near the towns.I dont see a future on the old lines but if you built the new ones for the long term without freight trains flogging them then decent 200 ks plus speeds would be safely attainable.The last stretch from the ringroad in is either viaTullamarine or even join up with the Upfeild line .Another way is just build a cut and fill an underground line straight up Sydney road and remove all the trams off it which then wouldn’t be needed,and then you could shut down the upfeid line completely,sell off the land to pay for the new line,and use the land for high density multi storey housing with no carparking and put a bike path through the centre of it(the millenials would love it)..As for super fast trains between Melbourne and Sydney we already have them.They are called Qantas.Why compete with an efficient system? Fast trains should be for getting people from between the cities to the cities.Have a look at the x2 train from Sweden.I think they tested one near Canberra a few years ago.

[@connorcore7008]

I've often wondered how the XPTs would perform if they were given the opportunity to run on the British network

[@DubGathoni]

Well, they are HSTs in fancy suits, so that would be good place to start

[@ozsteamer2755]

*Good info,* good video @ 22:48 "....before continuing above ground to Newcastle, Taree, Wuch-hopie..." *That's Wauchope... pronounced "War-hope"* (sometimes it's pronounced "war-chop" with the "o" being said the same was as the "o" in Ohm, or "War-cope") *_Thank you for the "goofs" at the end of the video. Looks like you have a good sense of humour_*

[@cobalt8619]

SEPTA

[@andrewmcalister3462]

I thought I recognised the symbol. And then thought “nah, can’t be - too random.”

[@dulcinealee3933]

When did you say the first time a high speed train was being considered? 1963 before a lot of us were born????

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

Technichally, yeah, although most people consider HSR to be 200kph+, while that proposal was for 160kph.

[@dulcinealee3933]

@CityConnectionsMedia which is what the speed the 50 year old XPT can do but doesn't due to speed restrictions, signalling , terrain, freight trains, , passing passenger trains, level crossings and mechanical issues

[@DubGathoni]

11:38, why use 25kV AC when the NSW rail system used at the time and continues to use 1.5kV DC. It would mean another type of train that in the NSW railway's inventory while requiring a separate infrastructure for maintenance and apart from boosting the size of freight trains would limit existing trains to the network that had 1.5kV DC infrastructure in place. Were dual voltage trains considered viable, the existing network slated for conversion to 25kV AC or was this problem considered not a problem worth addressing?

[@qjtvaddict]

Dual mode trains exist use those

[@aidenteszke9000]

1500v DC is horribly out of date and inefficient. There are countless places that use both with dual mode trains and locomotives because of this.

[@zaccarter8110]

it is such a shame that with all this investment into inland rail, that they could have dual tracked the eastern corridor, thus removing siding delays and increasing speed.

[@samsam21amb]

it seems that we get so very close to finally building, but then the government changes... and its all restarted

[@LetterboxFrog]

If Albo wants High Speed Rail, all he has to do is make politicians and staffers take the train or bus to Parliament House from Brisbane in the North to Adelaide in the West. Suddenly HSE funded as pokies realise the current situation is shit.

[@noronhawarren]

Great work putting this video together. I have been following this for years, but still learnt a few new things. Loved the range of locations for your filming.

[@thomasarmstrong3804]

I won't be Happy till we get the FFT !

[@aussiedream69]

Um, ah, um, Utopia is a comedy, not a documentary

[@cabbagepatch8947]

Are you sure?

[@aussiedream69]

@@cabbagepatch8947 Not 100% as comedy sometimes makes a whole lot more sense than reality, lol.

[@doughart2720]

"Would build HSR if elected". Incumbent governments , Labor or coalition, facing an election they are not confident of winning are the ones making HSR promises. More often than not they are not elected hence no HSR. Also as you pointed out, why would you have airlines etc involved in working parties. Theyre only there to make sure the HSR proposal doesn't get off the ground. I'm a lot older than you and I've seen these strategies played out many times before. I'm not having a go at you personally. It's just that you have to have been around for quite a few elections to see the pattern emerge. If HSR got off the ground in a big way between Sydney and Melbourne it would cripple domestic aviation in Australia. I love your passion for the subject keep up the good work.

[@ashleighevie]

106 billion really isn't that colossal once you get various states and federal funding, individual freeway/motorway schemes already rival that!

[@scanningallvidzs]

And how much is the cost of nuclear submarines which we'll never get? Twice as much as that

[@ethannewfuse1143]

Love the video. Thanks for making it. But sorry having VFR completed by 2058 is absolute disgrace! By 2030 we will be having free engery (Plasma energy) plus by this year the whole world will be changed due to natural disasters etc which also includes Australia where we will need to learn how to filter our own water. So yeah no point in have VFR at all even though I wish it have this within the next 5 years because if we can build so much things quickly, upgrading rail doesn't take that bloody long. As you pointed out at the 55 minute mark, thats the problem with these people who do these studies. People will live remotely if there is a very fast train. It is a no brainer!

[@garydawson5928]

how much $$$$$ bureaucratic waste can a KOALA BEAR 🙄🙄😱😱🤬🤬

[@zaccarter8110]

Warchope... pronounced War - Hope

[@Steven_Rowe]

Australia is a joke with fast trains, forget high speed trains. In 1981 NSW bought a derivative of the British HST 125, which since 1976 till recently were consistently doing 200kph, well the XPT was amd still is a joke mainly due to not having trwck suitable for any reasonable amout of speed let alone 200kph which is really the entry level for high speed trains. Every government seems to squander large sums of money on feasibility studies and nothing happens. The French TYV started in 1981 some 43 years ago, by the time Australia gets any form of high speed rail it will be another 20 years or so, so only 63 years after the French. Using existing rail corridors isnt going to work as thexlines have way to many tight curves plus gradients. To get out of Sydney to say Newcastle it would involve a dedicated tunnel from Sydney to north of the Hawkesbury river and that is going to cost astronomical $$$

[@FailedRacers]

I'm sorry but if you're Australian you can't pronounce 'z' like that.

[@reubenab6005]

In my opinion the strongest chance of HSR in Australia is in Victoria from Melbourne to Geelong through progressive upgrades of the line. Either way if HSR does get built I would hope they make it possible for double deck 10-carriage trains to be used. I would also rather Victorian 1,600mm gauge which is a double edged sword, as it's more expensive. But would incentivise local jobs (NSW has been enjoying purchasing non-Australian made trains recently). New tracks would hopefully mean the tracks / infrastructures quality is going to be perfect, minimal sharing tracks with other trains, & wider / more stable trains are possible although it isn't that much of an issue with modern technology. But I do know beggars can't be choosers & would be very happy if we just got more frequent Sydney - Melbourne XPT services.

[@qjtvaddict]

New tracks can be standard gauge

[@reubenab6005]

@ I’m just thinking it means it will have to be new tracks & the government can’t cheap out making it share tracks that are of lower quality.

[@johnsergei]

Political will is one thing but the private RBA will not lend the government the money as there is no profit for them. 57:56 & exporting high speed trains? In 1975 the Australian Federal Government signed the Lima Agreement to remove manufacturing to developing countries. Government policy is turning Australia into a 3rd World country. Always 3rd World internet, now 3rd world rail services. What next, crime, food? Likely both.

[@andrewclarke6899]

The biggest problem with long distance high speed rail in Australia is finding a significant customer base. Distances are so great that anybody who can afford it is going to fly. Others, particularly families, are going to go by car, overnighting at motels, as they do now. People on low incomes will travel by road coach. I can remember the excitement in the 1960s when standard gauge was extended from the NSW border to Melbourne, Adelaide and eventually, Perth. These days, the Sydney-Perth 'Indian-Pacific' train is essentially a tourist hotel on wheels, which runs weekly in each direction, making a detour to Adelaide and including stops in the middle of nowhere, e.g. the Nullabor Plain, so that the passengers can stretch their legs and have a barbecue. The Ghan from Adelaide to Darwin is run in the same lines. Curiously enough, the current Canberra-Sydney service seems to be holding up, even though it's an hour slower and appreciably more expensive. The reason for this is that the winding route through the Molongolo Gorge and the Southern Highlands is very attractive.

[@qjtvaddict]

Were you not paying attention?

[@ziggybadans]

That's the entire point, long distance high speed rail is a middle ground for all those categories. You don't have to spend hours waiting in an airport dealing with crying kids, or the mental strain of driving long distance, or the uncomfortable nature of a road coach. You simply hop on a train and enjoy yourself for a few hours. The tradeoff is that it needs to be fast if going for a day trip approach or comfortable if going for a sleeper approach, otherwise people won't consider it. I think loads more people would take the sleeper service on the XPT if it was cheaper and more comfortable, it already has a good frequency and good journey length, as you can essentially save on two nights of accomodation if doing a return trip. They just need to get an actual proper buffet service, a purpose-built sleeper car and upgrade the carriages for better sound insulation.

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

Australia does have high speed public transport. It called aviation. Interstate HSR would cost an abominable amount with all the consultants, contractors and bureaucrats turning it into a job for life at the taxpayers expense and it would run at a loss at the taxpayers expense forever. Freight makes money, passengers do not with the exception of The Ghan, Indian Pacific, Great Southern which are slow and cost thousands of dollars a seat. Victoria have only just now started in getting a simple train to the Airport for god's sake.

[@aidenteszke9000]

Hello Mr Alan Joyce

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

@@aidenteszke9000 Is that the best you can do Aiden? Lump a complex topic and the entire aviation industry onto one little anus breath crook that's not even around anymore? Lucky for you there's NDIS. Take your meds. 🙄

[@qjtvaddict]

😅😅😅😅😅 stop posting nonsense you know planes are not it unless the trip is greater than 590 miles

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

@@qjtvaddict I started laughing but then thought you might actually be serious. 😳

[@ozsteamer2755]

"Australia does have high speed public transport. It called aviation." *Yeah, those "holding patterns" that planes hafta make above our airports because of massive congestion. Sure looks "high speed" to no-one*

[@firstfreeone]

Stand in front of a wall as your backround as your editing is not seamless. Also research your pronunciations of towns. You made a hash of Wauchope and another. Bombardier needs a bit of attention as well. You may need to consider talking a little bit slower as well. My wife could not continue listening as it was all lost.

[@carisi2k11]

It's been going on for much longer then your 23 years.

[@Aussi241]

If this guy would only speak a little slower would turn in to good english

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

'Good English' 🤣 It's hard on a content creator finding the right pace so the slow at the back of the class can keep up. The irony of a topic on high speed having to slow down is exactly why 'Stalia doesn't have high speed anything. 🙄 Just switch over to ABC or SBS to fit your special needs Anton. 😒

[@TheEarthHistorysConfusing]

Slow it down, personally i aspeed it up 2x !.

[@brad9529]

You're forgetting that we have planes. We can already commute even faster than high-speed rail. Remember, high-speed rail won't be cheap to use, cheaper. Sure, but not cheap.

[@qjtvaddict]

Not a valid argument stop using it

[@ozsteamer2755]

"You're forgetting that we have planes" *No, and we're also not forgetting the endless (true) sour jokes about planes circling-the-airport in a holding pattern for hours until landing space becomes available.*

[@brad9529]

It's not valid when you decide to invalidate it, lol. It's 100% valid. I just few Sydney-GC $138 Return same day. It was cheaper than what a high-speed train would be that would take twice as long. The reason we don't have it is because it's unnecessary.

[@ziggybadans]

Sure let me know the next time it takes you 2 and a half hours to get to Brisbane CBD from Sydney CBD and let me know who you bribed to sneak you through the airport lol