The Speech That Brought Down Margaret Thatcher & Kick-Started Brexit

[@theipaper]

Watch the latest in our series of Greatest Speeches here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKusmGh7jb2ob6c (we promise the music is turned down)

[@megamediker]

When I wana listen to a speech, I don't wana listen to a piano.

[@RahmatSeaddat]

What about Violin 🎻?

[@thomasceneri867]

The music is on for like ten seconds in the beginning and then it’s gone.

[@AlexM-bs8mx]

that's called an intro. the saame bit of the speech, along with all of it, comes later without music. relax.

[@hrothgar64]

But he paid a lot of money to have the pianist in the House Of Commons to accompany his speech. They had to move the SDP MP's so they could fit the piano in.

[@agbook2007]

@@hrothgar64, bwhaha!

[@bryansmith1920]

As someone that suffers from Tinnitus, STOP putting music levels Over and above Voice levels, Please,

[@gerardo8av]

Hear hear!

[@francescoanastasio2021]

I don’t suffer from anything, but you’re right it’s just annoying. The content is very interesting thougj

[@ajaysidhu471]

Don't stop putting music over n over

[@alzeNL]

as someone that despises music on videos, just stop putting stupid music over videos.

[@wotdoesthisbuttondo]

It's a sign of a weak overall point if needing to add brainwashy music.

[@JaniceLDN]

I remember it well. This was a riveting speech. Geoffrey Howe giving his reasons for his resignation. It was clear , though Thatcher looked stoic , her era was coming to an end. Everyone present knew it, she knew it. It was just a matter of time. For a mild mannered man, this speech was devastating.

[@Roz-y2d]

Well, you don’t have to scream and rant and rave to get your point across.

[@harbari]

Thatchers demise was brought about by Michael Hezeltine and the Westland affair. Howe's speech just put the cherry on the icing of long standing disenchantment with her autocratic behaviour.

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@Roz-y2d strange you should mention that, after your previous use inexplicable use of the word "nonsense".

[@Roz-y2d]

@@annpeerkat2020 Well, you’ve just written something that’s both ‘inexplicable’ and ‘nonsense’. Go take a look! 🤣😂😅

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@Roz-y2d great to see you've mastered the art of emoticons! That adds a couple of years to your ability to hide your senility.

[@adamhinchliffe4979]

He was educated, polite and sincere in his criticism of his former boss. How sad we don't hear politicians like him today.

[@brianbell3836]

People always say that. Absolute nonsense

[@robertcottam8824]

@@brianbell3836 Darling, are you alleging that Geoff WASN'T 'educated, polite or sincere'? Did you ever meet him or the formidable Elspeth? Nah. You didn't. Back off, poppet. Pip pip

[@brianbell3836]

@@robertcottam8824 No, Bobby. I'm challenging your perverse assertion that 'we don't hear politicians like him today'. The Beast of Bolsover (sadly retired) was always a force. A favourite of mine. And in the dethroning of Boris Johnson, a few Tories made their feelings clear with rapier sharpness. I fear you romanticise the past as a lot of old folks do. That's okay. Pip, as you say, pip.

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@brianbell3836 You've just made a claim as sound as saying the world is flat. Do you have any smidgeons to share to indicate how you got to this belief?

[@brianbell3836]

@@annpeerkat2020 The world is flat, Ann?

[@Mark64W]

' If you want to be heard , speak softly ' . I bow my head down to Geoffrey for saying what had to be said .

[@skymagenta8758]

mmm but he does say 'protection' and that wouldn't be received well.

[@Socratic199]

40 years old and already my memories have become history. Such a small amount of time, and yet.. So much since.

[@SiVlog1989]

I wouldn't say it kick started Brexit, rather, it foreshadowed it: "If we detached ourselves completely, as a party or as a country, the effects will be incalculable and very hard ever to correct,"

[@3dartxsi]

Arguably, Thatcher taking power was much more of a starting point. The Tories spent the next 35+ years taking a sledgehammer to various important government institutions and blaming the EU for the consequences.

[@christopherh4891]

@@3dartxsibecause conservatives have always valued the rich and how to make them richer and somehow convinced the poor that the richer the rich get the happier the poor will be because itll "trickle down" into pizza parties, giveaways, gift cards (to their stores usually), etc. While they continue to rake in more money, continue to expand their business, continue to drive prices up to "meet the income" when really they see groups get a pay raise and they feel entitled to that money.

[@SiVlog1989]

​@@3dartxsi I can understand that point of view, but the paradox is that she was a leading figure in the 1975 campaign to join what was at the time called the EEC. While in office, she was sometimes confrontational with European Community leaders, but, crucially, she didn't think it was right to leave, as it would reduce our say

[@3dartxsi]

@SiVlog1989 and? David Cameron was the guy who is responsible for the referendum that made Brexit happen, but he opposed leaving. I've never accused the Tories(Thatcher included) of being particularly smart or capable beyond their exceedingly narrow skill at convincing the broader electorate to support some truly terrible policies.

[@frglee]

It was Dennis Healey in 1985 that described debating with Howe as 'like being savaged by a dead sheep'.

[@atthebridge]

It was Healey certainly but I think it was earlier than 1985. Wasn't Howe in opposition at the time?

[@notreallydavid]

It was never _that_ funny or clever, though. Healey could do better.

[@notreallydavid]

​@@atthebridgeLike you, I think it was before 1985, a. I'm too lazy to chase it up, though.

[@dizwell]

​@@notreallydavidIt was said on 14 June 1978.

[@notreallydavid]

@@dizwell Unbeatable answer. Thanks.

[@Deepthought-42]

Howe’s legacy is that he initiated the demise of Thatcher not that it initiated Brexit. Others who put self interest over National interest did that later.

[@shauntempley9757]

This speech triggered her fall, and also Brexit. There is no coincidence, that this speech revealed huge rifts between the UK's politics, and the EU's. Before this speech, it was always that the UK and EU were always aligned. This speech took that truth, and showed it was a myth. It started the history of the public watching closely what both the UK and EU were doing, and the public over time grew soured, as history over 30 years showed that there were rifts, and they were huge ones.

[@kevinlongman007]

Agree this speech had nothing to do with Brexit.

[@fezmancomments]

We were all younger then. So was the EEC… EC… EU (or whatever it was called back then).

[@petuser1]

@@kevinlongman007 exactly what I was thinking, this speach is about pro europe, the single market, the customs union. It was Thatcher who was against all those things. Its nice to try and put a modern narrative on this and mention Brexit in the same breath but its completely the other way around.

[@kevinlongman007]

@@petuser1 Yes he resigned because he was pro Europe and Thatcher was not. It was all to do with the UK joining the ERM, which in hindsight was an error.

[@alanmacmillan6957]

one of the most intelligent, cleverly crafted, diplomatic yet scathing speeches of all time.

[@cosmicdebris2223]

you mean mine about the volume of the piano?

[@notreallydavid]

The icy, cerebral perfection of Howe's writing already felt like something from an earlier time when he delivered the speech. I wonder whether a contemporary politician could devise a piece of oratory like this. This and the emergency debate following the Falklands invasion have been the great parliamentary occasions of my life thus far. Alan Clark spotted immediately that the speech bore Elspeth Howe's fingerprints, and said so in a splenetic diary entry. And anyone who enjoyed reading Clark's parliamentary diaries would derive similar pleasure from those of Gyles Brandreth, which overlap with his and are remarkably good. Surprisingly good, we might say - but Brandreth has always been a smart writer when he's not been organising games of charades before the jelly and ice cream are dished out.

[@nikolaucznaum4312]

Howe a petulant back stabbed!!……

[@Roz-y2d]

Agreed, but how did Howe trigger Brexit??? Nonsense!

[@notreallydavid]

@@Roz-y2d Hi. Not sure that the speaker is claiming that (it's a few days since I watched the video), but - as he points out - Howe might have accelerated and firmed the self-sorting of Conservative MPs into pro- and anti-EU factions. This coalesced into the demand for a referendum, and here we are. It's possible to say that Howe unwittingly contributed to the chain of events that led to Brexit, without claiming that he caused it - and I'm indebted to the speaker for his insight on this. I suspect that the speech really did sharpen the in/out division within the parliamentary Conservative Party, although I think the party would always have ended up so divided on EU membership as to resort to a referendum in the hope of resolving things. All best

[@thomascarlin2844]

Brings to mind again that spitting image scene when at the dinner table Maggie is asked by the server ,what about the vegetables and she answered “ They’l have the same as me”

[@andrewmunn1724]

Apparently that was BS, never happened.

[@Tony-z3p1r]

Oh it did ..I saw it on TV 😉

[@lichtloper]

@@Tony-z3p1r 'oh did you mr.Trump'

[@lellyparker]

@@andrewmunn1724 *"Apparently that was BS, never happened."* - Spitting Image was a puppet show taking the Micky.

[@andrewmunn1724]

@@lellyparker Many of Maggie's fans think that it was actually true.

[@kinngrimm]

Still pains me when i think about it. I had been working with british people and called them my friends for decades only to find out that many seem not to like to live together with us here in europe. It was a betrayl of anything our and your forfathers tried to achiev after WWII. Establising a peacefull union aiming for greater things together. The EU is by far not perfect, which again was a good reason for you to be in there, to share your point of views and make it better over time that way. For the EU at least the Brexit may have turned out to be a good thing, as it was a wake up call, that not anything should only be done on behalf of corporations, but the peoples needs and interests needed to be included more into the EU thinking. I hope you may find your way back one day. greetings from germany

[@someoneelse8223]

Oh leave it alone. You really consider a country choosing to leave an economic union to be a "betrayal of everything our forefathers tried to achieve"? Seriously...? If your friendships are that shallow then maybe you're not someone who's worth having as a friend.

[@lisadsouza5061]

​@mattaddison1910 no it's not more than a economic group

[@connorlat0129]

EU was an inherently neoliberal organisation designed to make it more convenient for rich people to move their assets across Europe and to exploit/offshore cheap labour in eastern Europe

[@connorlat0129]

Britain wasn't even allowed to nationalise it's rail services, and other key industries. The EU imposed austerity measures after the financial crisis and values the market above human life. The union is designed to make the rich richer not to bring Europeans together.

[@mrubengmail]

@@connorlat0129, and yet the Brexit movement was led and dominated by those to the right of the position you are criticizing. Farage and the rest of his gang are xenophobic rightwing populists at best, and total frauds at worst.

[@ABO-Destiny]

Never underestimate a soft spoken thinking person of any kind. Remember, most important problems are most easily solved while most other problems are not, but fought over for a proper solution.

[@HolyHolyHoly-c3e]

Listening to Geoffrey Howe, if you listen closely, is also very humorous, very much a wonderful wordsmith. .

[@ganrimmonim]

I was twelve when this speech happened, and yet I still remember it. I was a very nebbish twelve year old very interested in politics. But her face during it. And the style with which it was delivered.

[@glyn6170]

I'd never noticed that Nigel Lawson was sitting next to Sir Geoffery Howe until now. That says a huge amount.

[@charlesvanderhoog7056]

I can still hear the speech in the background. The piano music is not loud enough.

[@lindacurrie8817]

Well that just states you have better hearing. Many do not struggle to hear. When talking better to not have music no requirement to do so.

[@jayzee9149]

Curiously I've watched the FULL video and the music only lasts a few minutes at the start. Sounds like a few people like complaining without due dilligance...Typical trolls..

[@charlesvanderhoog7056]

@@jayzee9149 Don't b.s. The music was too loud, and you know it. It is self-defeating to correct it only later in the show. People will have disconnected and moved on by then.

[@jayzee9149]

@@charlesvanderhoog7056 Well I had no problems. Not a fan of over-intrusive music myself but I found this OK even for the first couple of minutes..

[@loneprimate]

​@@charlesvanderhoog7056Dude, get a hearing aid. If you can't make out the words, it's not the piano.

[@josephthomasjr.6551]

For anyone even remotely interested in British politics, Sir Geoffrey Howe's autobiography is WELL worth your time. That man was anything but boring! REST IN PEACE GEOFF!!!

Poor Chancellor, made too many blunders

Poor Chancellor

[@stevebbuk9557]

Had Margaret Thatcher not sidelined Howe for John Major there might not have been such a speech at all.

[@dazzerd.9921]

Major was a traitor to

[@robertcottam8824]

@@dazzerd.9921 Oh you silly sausage... 😍 Bless you. 🤣

[@jumalikorik]

WORD

[@britishempire2330]

Johnny was doing Edwina on the side. Johnny had good taste.

[@poppasmurf]

Although the Howe speech undoubtedly pushed her over the edge of the cliff, Mrs Thatcher was already in the last days of her leadership. Many in her party had watched in dismay as she lost the instinct which had helped her so much in previous challenging periods. I myself knew she was finished when she decided to take on the War Widows and Vera Lynn. Nobody in their right mind would think they could do this and win, but she did.

[@Nickster_P]

And the question of the troubles in N.I. Thought she could bludgeon the IRA without serious repercussion, made the fatal mistake of underestimating them. Foolish woman. Mind you, she wasn't the only one to have made that mistake over the years........

[@paulwilliams8389]

That's correct - her days were numbered when 60 of her MP's either voted against her or abstained the previous year when Anthony Meyer stood against her as a staking horse leadership candidate.

[@poppasmurf]

@@paulwilliams8389 Ah, yes. Referred to by many as the stalking donkey!

[@jeffreyharris3887]

Every politician has a shelf life ,Mrs T was too arrogant to realise that

[@dianamincher6479]

Too much hubris--too little awareness!

[@alexharrington6459]

Blair was the same.

[@kevinshanahan6064]

Arrogant was the word I had. No point in having a Cabinet meeting if you don’t listen.

[@englishjona6458]

I’d say that them peoples propaganda machine was working lovely

[@ValerieMcIntyre-cg6rw]

They all are every party politician's have huge egos

[@philbraithwaite1316]

The late John Sessions' depiction of him was superb in the BBC TV movie "Margaret" (2009). One of the best speeches of my lifetime.

[@garolstipock]

I'm thinking you had to be there. I do remember the "savaged by a dead sheep" comment. Gosh, I was a child, how do I even remember that? Anyhow... What I do know, is that it was because of how hopeless the future looked and the present was that compelled my family to emigrate. Life under Thatcher was grey, cold, and stark for many... while we watched while those that already had plenty gained even more and still did not see or care about the struggling masses..

[@Babylonisburning-j9e]

11 years of Maggy, brought down Maggy!

[@jeffreyweitzman6463]

This was a speech that did actually hurt her even though in her typical personality she didn't admit it did or show any outward signs of feeling hurt but because they were for the initial years in unison she just didn't expect a speech so direct in criticism of direction she was leading the government in and in extension of her! No one expected the type of speech he did to be that cutting and so yeah it definitely wounded her feelings.

[@sosayweall7290]

It was an excellent speech that required decoding by the layperson then, and would do now. The likes of Farage, Tice, Trump etc are successful partially because they speak more directly, and people relate to it. But, their words are often empty, Howe's wasn't.

[@williamf4544]

We dont have the same quality of people in political parties that we did back then

[@jeremyroberts39]

100pc agree with you. Real politicians/characters on ALL sides. They really did seem to care about the country.

[@stephenhodgson3506]

Sadly around 40 years ago we entered an era of the tabloid press attacking relentlessly any politician who would stand for ideals and ideas, particularly if they didn't conform the the wishes of the owners of those tabloids. Far too many good people have seen what happens if your willing to put yourself forward and you hold principals based on truth and so are not willing to do so and to make it worse know that their families will also be attacked if necessary. Meanwhile others who will say and do anything regardless of the truth to be in the spotlight are championed by those that will attack those with decency. In the past 15 years sadly it has got even worse with the broadsheets also choosing to climb into the gutter with the tabloids.

[@TONE11111]

they are all still 'liars'

[@lellyparker]

@@TONE11111 *"they are all still 'liars'"* - In the past they might bury the details, emphasise what made them look better, play with words etc... but the outright bare faced lying of the last Tory government under Boris Johnson is unprecedented. It is completely new in British politics and was imported from Trump.

[@janetbayford133]

Pity about the noisy music drowning everything out

[@eldee1628]

A lot of youtubers think their listeners need music. What they don't know is that a person's musical taste will rarely match another's. I hate the chipmunk background music that many young youtubers use/have used and have to click the 'don't recommend channel' button.

[@AlexM-bs8mx]

@@eldee1628 Omg "many young youtubers" yeah I'm sure the editors of this i Paper production are all Gen Z. Thanks for confirming the demographic all these moaners are from. Btw it's called an intro, it lasts for 30 seconds and almost any kind of media will include something like this and it's been that way for a long time. Skip it if it offends you so much.

[@celeduc]

Applying the wrong aspect ratio to the archival footage is really a bizarre choice.

[@Test_Card_Tom]

Even the BBC will sometimes leave an archival image at a 4:3 ratio but crop it to fill a 16:9 screen losing the top, bottom or both from the original. Why they don't simply use the 4:3 image with black side borders I've no idea. It looks better, is the original way it was broadcast and when used in a documentary it breaks up the monotony of everything being widescreen. If the entire archival film or video is 4:3 ratio then it really is a sin not to broadcast it in that format.

[@stephendisraeli1143]

The speech scene in the film version of Maggie's life illustrates the difference between drama and reality. In the drama, she sits gazing forwards with a furious expression. in reality (I watched the event on live TV), she turned her head and watched him with what looked like polite interest.

[@Roz-y2d]

Yes, but there were tears in her eyes when she left Downing St. Silly woman really overstepped the mark with the public.

[@londonlalamusa7364]

​@@Roz-y2dtrue, on more than one or two occasions

[@ninovasev]

I love your analysis...always amazed by speeches that changed history

[@artvandelay7236]

Incredible how far the quality of politicians has fallen

[@petuser1]

there was an even funnier exchange 2 days later during her actual resignation speech when she was asked if she was gonna carry on the fight against the single currency and an independant central bank when Dennis Skinner shouts out 'shes gonna be the governor, shes gonna run it'.. which was greeted with howls of laughter on both sides and her reply 'what a good idea'. You rarely see that when both sides find a remaark to laugh at. Actually nowadays you never see it. I dont know if you all remember that?

[@katashanicholas2438]

It’s on here, I watch it quite often!

[@petekellett4181]

Fascinating, thanks!

[@paultaylor7059]

the look on John Majors face as Howe spoke was priceless - immediately noticin an oppurtunity

[@BrianCharlesThomas-dp9du]

I absolutely agree with you.

[@ajvanmarle]

He may have been boring, but at least he spoke in coherent sentences. Modern politicians, take note.

[@nxu5107]

What a story and how well told. I wish we had such genuine politicians in the parliament now.

[@willhovell9019]

9:00 If you are going to cite a quote from Denis Healey, then give him credit. Get your research correct .Elspeth Howe served as deputy chairman of the Equal Opportunities Commission from 1975 to 1979,and in various other capacities from 1980. She was later made chair of the Broadcasting Standards Commission.

[@Jonathan-dv6br]

Correct. But if we listed credits/attributions and CVs the piece would be 45 minutes long. In a piece like this you’ve got to be selective.,

[@KryptonitetoallBS]

For those under 40 it's important to note that Thatcher wasn't popular all the way through her tenure. In fact in 1981 she was THE most unpopular PM that Britain had ever had. However she manipulated a war with Argentina in 1982 and as we all know there's nothing that brings a country together like a war. The following year she won her second victory but she did so with the blood on her hands of around 1,000 people who died in The Falklands War. nb. Our Armed Forces were very very brave, but this was a war which should never have happened and would not have happened if Thatcher hadn't recalled HMS Endurance making it look like The Falklands was an easy win for Argentina.

[@carolramsey6287]

She had instructed Lord Carrington to negotiate giving the islands to Galtieri because we didn't want them anyway. Galtieri, equally unpopular with his people thought he'd gain kudos if he just took them and we'd let him get away with it as we had let others do similar to us . If she hadn't gone to war she'd have been out of office in a week. I think Sir Keir Jong Un has probably overtaken her in the unpopularity charts now though

[@KryptonitetoallBS]

@carolramsey6287 I've not heard that before. I knew that Nato were aware of the Junta's ambition and warned the UK. But it suited Thatcher as war was her only chance of remaining in power. She got her wish and the rest is history!

[@aa-ph7ev]

I was around at the time and I agree with what you have written. She used the pride of Britain regarding it's brave defeat of the Argies to gain her Election victory. How sickening that she was able to manipulate the British for her own ends. And don't get me started on selling Council housing and not letting the Councils use the money to build more houses.

[@brianbell3836]

@@carolramsey6287 I don't agree, Carol. Maggie was despised in the north from the moment she took milk off the kids. Incidentally, the Belgrano - sunk by the British - was the one ship to survive Pearl Harbour undamaged.

[@ilonabaier6042]

It is no longer always true that war brings a country together. E.g. Afghanistan, Iraq.

[@Maha_s1999]

With regard to the anti-Europe sentiment, I actually would contend that the series "Yes Minister" brought it out in the open first. In the words of Sir Humphrey "British foreign policy has been the same for the last 500 years: to ensure that it results in a disunited Europe".

[@iain4295]

Talking about brexit and the tories like this, without mentioning the damage they have caused is morally corrupt. It's like taking about wars without mentioning the suffering, as if they are something that just happened with no consequences.

[@theipaper]

What's your favourite political speech of all time?

[@kerryfry1857]

MLK's "I have a dream!"

[@npe1]

Kinnock - "hiring taxis to scuttle round a city handing out redundancy notices to its own workers" - the turning point for the Labour Party in 1985.

[@missizaskun]

@@kerryfry1857 Agreed and also JFK’s speech at his inauguration

[@CallumKray]

Julia Gillard's Misogyny.

[@todortodorov6056]

Two thousand years ago, the proudest boast was "civis romanus sum". Today, in the world of freedom, the proudest boast is "Ich bin ein Berliner!"

[@mdmd-md-p5y]

It's impossible to figure out the mindset of the individual who decided to play a soundtrack with this already excellent piece.

[@MrShanester117]

They play it for ten seconds. I wish people got this upset over real issues

[@philipdurling1964]

One of the greatest speeches ever made in Parliament.

[@annenunney9907]

I agree

[@englishjona6458]

And you deserve everything your getting now, just a shame your too ignorant to comprehend what you voted for 😂

[@calvinsbnb76]

11:13 ". . . It's legacy just cannot be understated." This everyday figure of speech of late is often gotten wrong. While understandable perhaps among the young or where English is not the mother tongue, from a bonafide authority the significance of this malapropism cannot be overstated; cannot be pointed out enough, said loudly enough: can't be *over* stated .

[@Terrykinrade]

Thatcher was a despicable prime minister in every sense of the word, she completely ruined this country with her " its my way or the wrong way attitude" I remember what she done to those poor miners, her actions were absolutely lamentable, and the poll tax which caused an all out civil war in this country, and then as if all that wasn't bad enough she put jimmy saville forward for a knighthood despite all of her people privately telling her not too due to the allegations being made against him, she was a truly horrific woman in every sense of the word, and in the end her ego got the better of her and she was finally booted out after being forced to resign, she was a tyrant and a dictator all rolled into one!!!

[@alexharrington6459]

My sentiments entirely.

[@Terrykinrade]

@@alexharrington6459 Thank you

[@unionofsa]

Wrong.

[@christinemiddleton4476]

Doesn’t Thatcher remind us of another Tory of her ilk, the word lettuce comes to mind!😉

[@Ladeenian]

I totally agree, Terry. I hate the memory of Thatcher. She was dedicated to the fake theory called "trickle down economics" (aka neoliberalism), deregulation of corporations etc. So why was she SO popular with voters all the time?

[@MahraiZiller]

Once wrote a vaudeville “who’s on first” type sketch about Sir Geoffrey Howe becoming prime minister for a scouts production night. The interviewer kept asking “Sir Geoffrey, how did you become prime minister?” To which the reply kept coming back “yes, I did.” Not great, but I was about 10 🤦‍♂️🤣

[@MickHodd]

Well done Howe.

[@old.not.too.grumpy.]

I admire her as a political manoeuvrer. Her policies destroyed much of the much the Midlands and North of England as well as much of Wales and Scotland. The long-term conciqiences of her policies are now harming the whole of the UK. She won the leadership of the Conservative by default. If the Argentinians hadn't invaded the Falkland Isles, she would have gone down a first but not very successful female PM

[@LBALucas111]

I would say the unions and the fact they fought more against eachother than her, caused mire damage to the Midlands and North of England. Also let's not forget the reason why Thatcher was elected was because of how outrageous the Unionis were being, the British people were fed up with them and gave Thatcher the mandate to combat them.

[@old.not.too.grumpy.]

@LBALucas111 unlike in Germany and France she refused to support industries for political rather than economic reasons, leaving with a service based economy. Hence, world economic downturn effect us more. She deliberately encourages industrial strife. And used it as an excuse to erode the living standards of millions of people.

[@LBALucas111]

@@old.not.too.grumpy. People clearly don't understand the shift from primary to quaternary sectors with the development of a nation and it shows. Manufacturing was declining under governments before and after Thatcher at similar rates. So you can't blame her for industries that were already failing. France and Germanys wasn't failing. Crucially, I think that british labour, was too pricey to compete on the world stage (and still is). Average people needed money to live, but free markets buy the cheapest products and services, as long as the quality is good enough. If your work force is too expensive, what can you do, you’re stuck between an economic rock and a hard place. Any menial work being done in these conditions, is ripe for being off-shored. Hey, that’s what my dad did, moved off shore, so we left our shity, cold, damp, council house and went where he could get work. To a better life, where he did the same job, for less money in an economy where prices were a tenth of what they were back in the UK. The point of this ramble? Well, given the state of the UK when Thatcher came to power, I can honestly say I wouldn’t have wanted her job. Did she do right by the country? I think as a whole she did, I know the electorate re-elected her, so it’s reasonable to assume that the majority of britain thought so at the time. Could labour have done better? Who knows!? The important thing is that we get what we vote for, it’s not perfect, sometimes it’s awful but it’s not really useful or honest to blame one woman for every ill. because she was a product of her time and I don’t think any of us armchair political analysts and economists really have the expertise we think we do, nor can we accurately predict what could have been if things had gone differently. Arguably, the economy is still here despite Thatcher, factually it was in a better state after her tenure than before it, prior to 1979 the UK was known as the sick man of Europe.

[@old.not.too.grumpy.]

@LBALucas111 the Germans and French both backed manufacturers. Both have a better mix than the UK. Britian's dependence on the financial sector leaves us very vulnerable. We she her legacy come back to bite us in many areas Forgien government owning parts of key utilities. The private sector has not kept bills low as promised Selling off social housing has resulted in an over dependence on the private sector push-up rents. Her dream of a share owning society was never going to, and didn't happen She created a greater North South divide, and a larger wealth gap. It's be proven Her idea of trickle down economics doesn't work. Every government based an ideology while successful to start have always left their country with long term problem We are now living with the consequences of Thatherism. While a few have benefited the majority have not

[@old.not.too.grumpy.]

@LBALucas111 Even members of the Conservative party are distancing themselves from her realising her is not great

[@noelhall945]

Another Fact:- Ministers resigned in Thatcher's Administration in exact reverse order in which they were appointed. Howe was first, and the last.

[@marcharley6465]

I worked at HM Treasury in Whitehall while Howe was Chancellor of the Exchequer and encountered him on a few occasions. Although I didn't like his policies, he surprised me by being a nice, friendly individual. I was only a junior employee but he still found the time to greet me when our paths crossed and have a brief chat. The same can't be said of his successor, Nigel Lawson, who was very rude and dismissive.

[@HektorBandimar]

Well done Elspeth! All things considered, I think Sir Geoffrey Howe was a much better humanitarian than Margaret Thatcher.

[@brianbell3836]

So was Mussolini.

[@soniahesketh3565]

Many men in those days didn't like the idea of a woman leader

[@brianbell3836]

@@soniahesketh3565 Nonsense

[@jeremyroberts39]

Fascinating.....thank you. I remember these days, when there were REAL politicians.........on both sides!

[@brianbell3836]

There still are, Jeremy.

[@Bootmahoy88]

Good video. Bad audio mixing. Maybe redo it!

[@j.j.c.s2802]

Just a small point - the video clips from the HOC should be uploaded at 4:3 aspect ratio. It was recorded way before we had 16:9 widescreen in the U.K. - that's why the video looks somewhat stretched in the horizontal - it has been forced to fit 16:9 dimensions - something to consider in future clips. Thanks for uploading, nonetheless.

[@MrShanester117]

Why do you care though?

[@j.j.c.s2802]

@@MrShanester117Well, that's a conflict of loyalty with which I have, perhaps, wrestled too long! Probably thought it would be useful feedback. With the stretched aspect ratio, everyone looks as though they've been on the pies for a few months! Some people have made the mistake of seeing Shunt's work as a load of rubbish about railway timetables, but clever people like me, who talk loudly in restaurants, see this as a deliberate ambiguity, a plea for understanding in a mechanized world. The points are frozen, the beast is dead. What is the difference? What indeed is the point? The point is frozen, the beast is late out of Paddington. The point is taken. If La Fontaine's elk would spurn Tom Jones the engine must be our head, the dining car our esophagus, the guard's van our left lung, the cattle truck our shins, the first-class compartment the piece of skin at the nape of the neck and the level crossing an electric elk called Simon. The clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's over there in a box. Shunt is saying the 8:15 from Gillingham when in reality he means the 8:13 from Gillingham. The train is the same only the time is altered. Ecce homo, ergo elk. La Fontaine knew his sister and knew her bloody well. The point is taken, the beast is moulting, the fluff gets up your nose. The illusion is complete; it is reality, the reality is illusion and the ambiguity is the only truth. But is the truth, as Hitchcock observes, in the box? No there isn't room, the ambiguity has put on weight. The point is taken, the elk is dead, the beast stops at Swindon, Chabrol stops at nothing, I'm having treatment and La Fontaine can get knotted. To summarise, let's say early in the morning ... why do you care about what I care about and need I tell you? That is the question!

[@j.j.c.s2802]

@@MrShanester117 Do you really need to know?

[@anllpp]

34 years later a hundred billion down in lost revenue and tax Gj

[@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn]

He was completely in his rights todo so, towards the end she treated many of her Ministers terribly.

[@johntyjp]

So did Hitler!😏

[@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn]

@johntyjp Is this a joke, or just a stupid comment, in order to get attention I'm struggling to see the relevance of what you just said. She used to make him look stupid in cabinet meetings. Hitler murdered and tortured people in his government towards the end that opossed him

[@iyibu01]

Pure entertainment politicians are. if indeed these people didn't take themselves too seriously. Nothing changes. Am still the jude now as i was witnessing this then.

[@Vretsoc]

I saw this speech on tv at a restroom on barracks after dinner... I went "she's gone"... didn't know then that she actually was holding the nation together for its sake inside Europe

[@JRandaII]

The dead sheep that roared

[@philliplloyd6977]

Terrible thing to do. If you didn’t agree why not say so years ago.

[@ramblerandy2397]

Wasn't it the late Labour MP Denis Healey who said, “Being attacked by Geoffrey Howe was like being savaged by a dead sheep.” after having to defend his record as Labour chancellor of the exchequer?

[@checkedenaayermathot6229]

Nuts! Thatcher was the beginning of Brexit!!

[@jimbo6059]

Thatcher actually campaigned for us to stay in the EU in 1975 during that referendum.

[@dianamincher6479]

Thatcher led to the enslavement of the common man?

[@checkedenaayermathot6229]

As is unfortunately often the case in politics, it is not about what you say but what you do. In fact, Thatcher initially campaigned for the United Kingdom to join the EEG (!!) but when the EEG was to become the EU, she began her handbag-carrying "I want my money back" terror to remove Great Britain from the EU..

[@funnycat1957]

Enoch Powell was the beginning of Brexit

[@williamclifford4441]

If there had more of Howe and considerably less of you this would have been a considerably better Post!

[@DAVIDSHEILS-fs1og]

You can't change the course of history,if you didn't know,history hs already happened always!

[@rhianwenj7597]

Got to "pinch" this phrase. It will be well used and cared for. Thank you.

[@jeffknott1975]

Jesus this guy REALLY liked that speech! Even wrote a book about it lol

[@adamgibson9385]

back when politics was done in parliament and not on social media. politics of substance will be missed, its too late now, all we have is politics of style. populism has ruined the west.- both left and right.

[@stickytapenrust6869]

0:20 - no, the fault line for Brexit was laid in 1986 when Michael Heseltine wanted to sell Westland Helicopters to the Italians but Thatcher and Leon Brittan wanted to sell the company to the Americans out of a bit of Euroscepticism.

[@johnkochen7264]

The moral of the story, do not make fun of the dead sheep in your cabinet because they are more alive than you think. What they say and do is rarely in keeping with how it was said or done.

[@kevinwhelan9607]

That's Howe you do it. Respect🎉

[@michaelcollins1211]

I'd love to hear the speech

[@avaronist1]

One has to create something in order to draw the the emotion of the crowd that leads to a downfall of one. It is sad , we know this but we yet again neglect it and fall into the trap.

[@stephan6372]

Thatcher destroyed mining and manufacturing then privatised water and electric, all European ideas the very Europe Thatcher chided at every instance yet supported. Mismanagement of government industries and European funding, of which the UK gave the largest portion, caused all this chaos.

[@williampatrickfagan7590]

I remember looking at that news clip, talk about kicking a man in the Bollox. The pen is truly mightier than the sword. or even the cricket bat.

[@STM2811]

What's with the guy at the back of Mr. Howe to the right of the screen staring like Trex at 4:30.

[@davidkennedy6251]

This speech triggered Mrs. Thatcher's resignation as PM. I don't believe it kickstarted Brexit.

[@aconsideredopinion7529]

When the tories stood for something, when they had beliefs and principles, before the liars, the corrupt agendas and the selfishness of elected politicians. The tories can never be trusted to ever again control the levers of power.

[@PlayMoreGolf-RipOff]

Thatcher would’ve taken us out of Europe in 1993 and then she would have retired in 1994 …

[@joekavanagh7171]

It was so good to see Thatcher in tears after being ousted.

[@brianbell3836]

Joy.

[@soniahesketh3565]

History Could repeat it self 🤔

[@Roz-y2d]

@@soniahesketh3565How so? With Starmer? If only!

[@jamesrickerby2756]

This woman was deserted by her own party! There wasn't one tory MP at her funeral. That's how respected and loved by tories! She sold 12:22 off water,gas, electricity, and railways, and we are all paying the price! She even tried to bring about rate reform, but the Scots got rid of that! Failure after failure!

[@jaomwtoptd]

Why on earth would you think meaningless background music would enhance this video?

[@stitcheruk1150]

Nothing wrong with the community charge aka Poll Tax. It was a ‘user pay approach to local government - why shouldn’t all people of voting age pay their share of running local services, with allowances for those on low incomes. Council tax for a house with two working persons - say £1,000. Council tax for a house with five working people also £1,000 - NOT RIGHT.

[@eckie4679]

When my wife has stopped working to raise our kids, I had to pay her Poll Tax as well as my own. If she’d had a part time job she’d have been exempt. It was an ill thought out taxation system.

[@Dragonrdh]

Ironically, this occurred one week after we left the UK and emigrated to Canada, we just didn't see a good future there.

[@StefanTravis]

So, Maggie was killed by a dead sheep. The fact that the entire party also wanted her gone... doesn't matter, somehow.

[@dianamincher6479]

At least Thatcher departed with dignity?

[@christopherpinnock7900]

This speech was the time when conservatives thought they could topple the leader and have no consequences but you saw the consequences they were out of power for 12 years. Now they have done it again with Boris and I believe the same will happen.

[@brianbell3836]

Good

[@robertcottam8824]

Eh? 🤣

[@harbari]

Absolute rubbish. The country needed a break from the Tories and Blair was the right candidate at the time being centre of right, not union bound and would have been one of Britain's best PMs to date, had he not lost his moral compass over Iraq. The Irish peace process is the biggest British achievement since World War 2. There is also the Kosovan resolution to his credit.

[@christopherpinnock7900]

Well I think you said rubbish so you think the Conservative attacking them self had nothing to do with losing power a 80 seat majority when Boris was leader? So I don’t get it are you Labour or conservative?

[@mountainlinx]

Brexit? How can you leave something you’ve never really been a part of?!?

[@antongromek4180]

A certain English band: "...you effd up old haig, haha charade you are"

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Brexit was caused by austerity and using the excuse that it was the EU and migrants. Instead of the actual cause which was economically illiterate Conservative policy. There is a direct correlation between the level of austerity in an area and the level they voted for Brexit. You could say it's Thatcher because it was only because her baffling idio tic economic ideas that they did that in the first place, which includes both the deregulation of the banks and the constant cutting over government.

[@caolruadh1]

How many of today's Government ministers are capable of making such a speech? None I can think of.

[@brianbell3836]

Nonsense. Loads make interesting and uplifting speeches. You just don't pay attention.

[@caolruadh1]

@brianbell3836 I didn't say no one could. You can't deny that there's a dearth of talent in politics right now compared to years gone by.

[@brianbell3836]

@@caolruadh1 Depends where you look. Many are talented. They need time to turn the ship around.

[@voice.of.reason]

Jacob Rees Mogg made speeches like that on a daily basis if you could be bothered to watch them

[@brianbell3836]

@@voice.of.reason I watched and dismissed.

[@haryy3840]

None of them had the public’s best interest at heart

[@lydiabrooks905]

European Union started as a Common Market. It ended up as a dictatorship.

[@josephj6521]

I don’t think any Tory/conservative has the best interests of the public. Ever. I’m confused why people keep voting for them?

[@NoName-hg6cc]

​@lydiabrooks905 EU started with the aim of a Federation since it was born, in 1957. We never should have let you guys in

[@Numusicstreet]

I m old enough to remember that speech it’s was a bombshell 😫

[@pauldrumwell4922]

I would shove the watch in a drawer, in future. Enjoyed the content.

[@loneprimate]

Canadian here. I've always understood that the speech was nuanced and impactful. But I've never understood exactly what Howe was referring to. What, exactly, had Thatcher done so beyond the pale as to be compared with sending a player out with a broken bat?

[@rachaellewis9698]

Good question. Context is missing and without it we cannot fully understand what happened

[@beadot8629]

@ 11:05 he says ‘…Anti-European’. No. It wasn’t Anti-European, it was Anti-EU. A completely different thing. Being Pro-Britain isn’t Anti-European either.

[@withonelook1985]

Its like watching Spiting Image Live

[@LydiaLulu]

I had completely forgotten about this!

[@DonCorleone803]

How can you forget the most famous speech ever made in parliament history 📜? Unless you have nothing to do with politics 🙈❗⚠️

[@mpumelelobeyers957]

Plot twist ; this a ninjas piano mixtape piece

[@karanveersingh6367]

Your music in video makes difficult to hear the speech.