The State of Catch Wrestling - Josh Barnett pt1

[@jamiewalking]

I trained with Josh last year for a few days. Am 240, give most everyone in a grappling room a hard time. He handled me like a child. Lovely fella too. Highly recommend learning from him if any of you ever get the chance.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Couldn't agree more!

[@andrewtaylor1335]

I was thinking of trying out catch wrestling at the snack pit in Wigan

[@jamiewalking]

if you get the chance go for it. Jealous you are close enough to the source to try it. But if possible I would try the snake pit, less likely to get fat. @@andrewtaylor1335

[@RemoWilliams1227]

Well that sounds delicious ​@@andrewtaylor1335

[@daxmafesi]

Sambo/Shooto already proved Catch Wrestling is better than bjj for mma. What’s more important than competitions right now are MORE Schools! Can’t expect to compete if the next generation has no gyms to learn from. They will settle for judo or bjj.

[@beimircc6434]

How did sambo prove that? Can you elaborate please. I dont get the context

[@rns7426]

I can elaborate. Sambo guys are coming out of Eastern Europe and doing really well in MMA in the west. Particularly the U.S. Eastern Europe has access and clubs for sambo. In the U.S. there aren’t many sambo clubs at all. Catch is really rare too. Therein lies the problem for people doing catch and spreading catch. BJJ is more accessible to everyone. There literally a club in every U.S. city even small towns. Judo is less accessible as it’s not very popular in the U.S. Wrestling is very accessible to children in school. It’s a scholastic sport. Not so much for adults.

[@daxmafesi]

@@rns7426 which is why they need more schools. Catch is growing a lot though I see more and more Judo and Catch schools opening up compared to only a few years ago there was almost none.

[@jg3000]

​@@rns7426 Judo used to be very popular in the United States. It was the martial art you saw in movies before the kung fu craze.

[@rns7426]

@@jg3000 you’re talking like 1960s. If it had retained popularity it would be all over. It’s not. We’ve never even had a male judo gold medalist. I love judo and practiced it for several years. I think very highly of judo and believe it adds nothing but good things to anyone’s arsenal. But it is not very popular or very wide spread in the U.S. I think judo should be popular! But again, it’s not and a shame that is.

[@subhaanahmad2149]

Snakepit Wigan is doing amazing work for catch wrestling, I have nothing but respect for Snakepit. The accreditation courses are 1 week, not a month but if you get a chance to do it, I'd say go for it. The most fun I've had in martial arts and the atmosphere is truly amazing, not to mention the coaches are fantastic and the techniques you pick up are game changers.

[@melvindunn2234]

I bought some manuals from them. Yes, Roy and Andrea Wood are great.

[@IgnatiusCheese]

I train at Gokor's Hayastan MMA. It's catch wrestling for no gi competition basically, but it's opened my eyes to how the modern butterfly guard systems came from wrestling elevator techniques. No gi has basically nothing to do with BJJ

[@mgunnermusic]

I feel like this is one of the Big Guys of Catch Wrestling grabbing your collar and going "You're Good At This KZbin Stuff Oz. This Stuff Is Good For Catch Wresting As A Sport. You're Going To Do More Of This, Aren't You?". Sounds like you'd best do more of it 👍

[@EnglishMartialArts]

That's pretty much how I took it! 😀

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

Great talk! I think the pin is valuable, to be honest. I think it's a representation of "if we could ground and pound or if I had a knife..." Asserting that kind of dominance on another good wrestler is not easy.

[@PauloSilvaX]

the pin is useful, but not the pin for having your back on the ground and not the pin as the end of the fight... This ippon per pin, cause CRITICAL issues, how to use THE HEAD TO DEFEND A FALL, which is extremely common in judo and wrestling... It could be pinned by immobilization in any position held for 30 seconds with control... The most useful falls are forwards, not backwards...NO GUARD, CATCHES THE BACK, CAN DO GROUND AND POUND TOO , you can stab even more, you can strangle, the advantage is total and absolute.... even soccer kicks...foot braces... everything is available with ZERO RISK...and depending on the fall, it can fall straight headfirst to the ground, it goes out instantly... The Wrestler is inverted from the reality of a fight... but DOES NOT HAVE COMPETITION, because no art has specialized in this...Mongolian Wrestler even has rules that go in that direction, but it has big limitations in the rules and doesn't have transitions to the ground...

[@CoffeeTrav]

​@@PauloSilvaXGo do mma vs a wrestler then come back and delete this comment.

[@CoffeeTrav]

​@@PauloSilvaXYou will very quickly see why being flat on your back is the end of most fights.

[@PauloSilvaX]

@@CoffeeTrav "most of the fights"... from the same creators of "one fall on concrete it will break you in half, so the fight ends as soon as you fall" usually judo guys defending ippoon The Pin serves to increase the control ability, No, because the fight ends there...The most common thing in the world is to pin someone and then escape...

[@CoffeeTrav]

@@PauloSilvaX Maybe in pure grappling... If you get "pinned" by a GOOD wrestler in a real life fight youre just gonna get punched in the head until his hand gets tired. Youve clearly never rolled or mma sparred with a collegiate + level wrestler your size. Im doing you a favor broski youre making yourself look very ignorant to those who know lol.

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Very interesting. Whilst I have trained all my life, I've never really done much grappling. Looking forward to hearing more :)

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

Insightful commentary. One big takeaway from this installment is that one gets out of it what one puts in. You don't have to be crush-everyone overboard in your training, but you have to be sincere and earnest enough with yourself to keep putting yourself in training situations wherein you do not have the advantages you normally might. Also, the story of Frank Gotch "keeping it folk" is great! FIGHT TEAM!

[@crumplepoint2712]

Awesome! I got caught up in Catch because I noticed all these similarities between my old Japanese JJ learning and the World Of Sport (i know, i know). I followed the trail back to CACC and then to the crossovers of east and west that you mention. Since then I’ve become absolutely fascinated. The points about the supremacy of ‘the pin’ are something that was drillied into us in the JJJ Thanks for all the great footage.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

That's awesome. Thank you.

[@0n344]

I have done both as well. Catch uses lots of things that are in JJJ and absent from BJJ: wrist locks, sacrifice throws, pins

[@RavagerRideout]

I would love more long form podcast style content like this one.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Then you're in luck, there are at least 2 more episodes of this, and 2 more interviews to come soon!

[@tomsheppard378]

Josh is right about Andrea she is great and the coaching at the Snakepit is good. The accreditation are for a week not a month, 20 hours. I don't know what impact those intensive courses have, sometimes its better to be training regularly that just the odd week. I have also attend intensive BJJ/JUDO courses with the army i don't think they improve my grappling as much as regularly training week in week out

[@batjutsu]

A wonderful and informative interview, thanks to you both!

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@StuartAnderson-xl4bo]

Kudos on this interview Oz fascinating listening to both of you. Great upload

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Thank you!

[@vercingetorixwulf9298]

I did it at the Tokei club near London bridge ...... it's still going strong .....

[@thecoach717]

Just started to follow you, thank you for all the information. Please keep up the good work and posting. 🙂

[@rudai123]

Catch needs 10 more big-outfit champions like Josh Barnett. That's how Catch gets more popular. I push and teach Catch. But everyone on my area only have heard of BJJ. Hard to compete for students.

[@chuckgreen3629]

Present it as wrestling and "grappling." Good catch wrestlers have always been good freestyle and folkstyle wrestlers too. Get certified to coach freestyle/folkstyle and run that along with "submission grappling/no-gi jiu-jitsu" classes.

[@rayrayoneday9395]

Hearing Josh bring up Johnny Buck and the Wicks lineage warms my heart... Hearing him bring up it's labeled as a T10 school breaks it 😢

[@Philo68]

Barnett vs Funaki = Kong vs Godzilla! Fight Team!

[@ramseydoon8277]

1:06 anybody recognize the black banner hanging behind The Warmaster? I was trying to sus out what the top says but the angle is too steep.

[@fattonyd232]

Bring catch wrestling to New Brunswick, Canada and I'm in!! We wish we had your skill set brother

[@RemoWilliams1227]

Subbed, good interview good channel.

[@athanasios3908]

18:00 Same thing is happening to Luta Livre, I have seen it here locally.

[@fennec812]

I think BJJ is a bit of a shadow over all grappling arts right now. What BJJ does better than anything, imo, is market. It’s all over social media and has scrubbed itself clean of “risky” techniques and older traditions. It presents itself as new and relaxed, while pointing at UFC1/2 especially as proof of its “martial dominance” (although that’s a narrative that’s a lot harder to swallow given some of its waffling in modern MMA). I think when people hear “Catch” they immediately think of old-timey wrestlers and black and white photos. A frankly *surprising* number of people believe very strongly in the historical fallacy that new is equivalent to better. Plus there are trappings of an inherited tradition in Catch. Which, at least in America, is kind of met with disdain by younger people. Unfortunately, demand right now is sort of for a “product” rather than a martial art. People want to be good at a thing, fast, and without risk or roadblocks. Which, of course, is unrealistic, but coaches are incentives to allow these ideas to persist because it keeps gym lights on. It’s very hard to compete with a marketing strategy that basically implies itself to be the exact thing you’re looking for with no extra hassle. The reality is different, but by the time most people realize that they are blue belts and either quitting or doubling down on their investment. The money has already been made and the art spread. I say this as an American Judoka. Our Judo “system” here is really like half a dozen coaches, really. Like yes there are hobbyist schools and these are good, but in terms of making exceptional competitors, there are very few places that manage that. And a lot of that has to do with BJJ just being absolutely everywhere and dominating cultural discussion. For better or worse.

[@Irrational_Pie]

Honestly marketing is super important. Nothing kills an art quicker than lack of new students. More students means a deeper talent pool, more competitions, etc.

[@fennec812]

@@Irrational_Pie Oh for sure. I’m not knocking BJJ for marketing-it’s smart. I just don’t think any other grappling art has really caught on in terms of how to compete. It’s even harder because BJJ attracts a lot of younger guys too who would be your Internet-literate “free marketing” people posting all over socials. I think it’s tough because whether you’re Catch or Judo or something else, you need to prove your good at something in a way that BJJ isn’t *and* sell it as at least as accessible. Catch might be able to pull that off in the pin department, but it terms of accessibility Catch is pretty rare and has a reputation as being “rough” (be it true or not). I think BJJ marketing has just nailed the “it’s a martial art for people who don’t want to do a martial art” niche lol. That’s not to throw shade at BJJ, it’s just tapped into this seemingly bottomless demographic of folks who want to do something martial but aren’t really fond of taking falls or getting hit. It’s both genius and more than a little frustrating.

[@benjamimc5x67]

The rebirth of catch is visible, everyhwere. The emphasis must allways be his contundency, his almost pure traumatic nature, that makes him different off all sort of grappliing modalities.

[@BallisticArmbars]

This video video has lit a fire in me.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Good!

[@lewisb85]

What I find amazing is where I live there's two ex pat Iranian freestyle wrestlers, an ex pat Brazilian running a Lutre Livre school and a 10th planet gym, Also thanks to my dad (a wrestling student under former duel code welsh rugby international turned wrestler don vines-catch wrestling because that's how they taught pro wrestling in the uk back then taught you to shoot before how to work) and the late Adrian street, I was actually able to get a education in catch wrestling by proxy, my dad would show me stuff which I could later use on the 10th planet or gracie barra mat.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

You were very lucky!

[@Slymo11]

Do you mind me asking who the Luta livre school is?

[@ramseydoon8277]

He's such a well-spoken and wise dude. I'd absolutely love to be able to have a conversation with the Warmaster. Fuckin hell, wish I could start a black metal band with him. That'd be fuckin amazing. Oh yeah and it'd be cool to train under him, last but not at all least😅

[@mgunnermusic]

Are there some good online hubs to keep up with current Catch Wrestling competitions, results, analysis, etc?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

No, sadly not that I know of. Catch is very splintered and groups are isolated.

[@mgunnermusic]

@@EnglishMartialArts Shame. I've recently gone down a rabbit hole with the top level strong man scene (WSM, Shaw Classic, the top competitors etc). I think they're a fantastic example of how to market a niche sport in the 21st Century. Seemingly independently, most of the biggest competitors have massive YT channels (Brian Shaw, The Stoltman Brothers, Mitchel Hooper, Chloe Brennan) where they really show their different characters, show their individual stories and do everything they can to be top class role models. You've then got the big names of yester-year like Eddy Hall nailing YT and still being relevant to the sport. You've even got some of the old guard like Big Loz and Liz guiding newcomers in, while also being highly respected by the top flight. In once sense, I don't think it even matters what sport they do. They could be playing tiddlywinks, but if all the above was true it would still be compelling. It also shows in their videos though that even the top competitors competing are really encouraging and supportive of each other. I think any sport could learn from how they're marketing strongman at the moment, but I feel like even one elite, charismatic Catch fighter could completely change public perception of the sport. Sorry, I'm finishing a dissertation so I'm just living for word-count right now.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

@@mgunnermusic you are absolutely right!

[@amang1001]

Carp didn't see this coming... right on great talk so far

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Thank you.

[@G-Fu3]

I would love to see an interview with Josh's coach, Erik Paulson.

[@Inzombia2011]

Catch can be an alternative to BJJ during the high school wrestling off-season. Not everyone wants to do the Olympic styles of wrestling or BJJ; and Catch is closer to Folkstyle wrestling than BJJ is.

[@frankdev2988]

Great video, I'd like to try new types of wrestling but the only styles I can find near me are judo and bjj

[@lewisb85]

its worth doing both bro, I did judo at school and later BJJ, some of the most dangerous guys at BJJ tournaments in the UK are Ray Steven's students because a lot of them cross train (ray is roger gracie's first uk blackbelt but also an olympic silver medalist in judo), like ray said "they both start from standing" his guys have really worked out the start from standing and transition to the ground game catching armbars on the way down etc, common in judo less so in bjj.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

It's all wrestling really. Train in BJJ and Judo, study Catch online and from instructionals, and try to apply it whenever you can.

[@LuxisAlukard]

First 6 minutes is full of smart, inspirational, great motivational thoughts!

[@EnglishMartialArts]

And the rest? 🤣

[@LuxisAlukard]

@@EnglishMartialArts I have no idea. I was so motivated that I started doing some squats and push ups =)

[@PrimeMatt]

Josh! 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@lastmanstanding5423]

I'd give anything to have a Catch Gym where I live.... up to a point of seriously considering moving to Wigan for a year or two. I only learned about Catch about a year ago. Never liked BJJ because of all the culty propaganda stuff... (there's a LOT of culty stuff around it) The irony is that exactly because of the culty stuff it became so popular. Like Josh said... people are asking for a "belt system" cult ranking. Like WTF man??? Anyway, recently I started going to MMA gym to Wrestling and NoGi classes. And I bought Catch instructionals from Josh and Billy and I try to incorporate as much Catch as I can in my game. This will do for now....

[@EnglishMartialArts]

There are worse ways to learn it!

[@subhaanahmad2149]

I train over at Wigan and go when I can, if you can get down to snakepit to train, do it. It's the best decision I've made when it comes to grappling. I'm now pinning people who have wrestled for way longer than me, and it's not just the unique submissions you'll see in catch, but there's a whole field of mat wrestling which I've found is lacking in a lot of freestyle clubs. Snakepit in Wigan is incredibly welcoming and professional. I can't recommend it enough. They do run workshops and accreditation courses if you can make it down to those, you'll pick up a ton.

[@lastmanstanding5423]

​@@subhaanahmad2149 There's a Catch World Championship in Bolton on the October 28th. I'm trying to organize and fly over to UK on the 25th. Was thinking about visiting Wigan and training with you guys on the 26th and 27th and then going to see the Championship on the 28th. It'll be my first time ever in the UK. Can't wait to be honest. :) So maybe I'll see you there

[@subhaanahmad2149]

​@@lastmanstanding5423That would be great, I hope to train with you soon. We have people from all over the world who come to snakepit to train.

[@dariusrana8487]

SAW under Hidetaka Aso have a belt system. Also learnt under Gotch and is the real deal.

[@Italiangentleman2394]

Im a jiu jitsu guy ill do a catch tournament but sadly there are none around

[@user-qp6vg9ho8u]

Josh is a badass 💯

[@teogriffin9600]

I just started doing catch wrestling 7 months but 4 years 2 stripe white belts

[@LMB8708]

I would love to learn this style. If anyone is in KC, leave a comment!

[@jamiewalking]

why did you break the interview down into small chunks?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Easier editing. And it let me get the first part out sooner.

[@Deancousin]

Love JB👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@fakename3042]

I would like to Catch Wrestle, how do I start? I have no catch school anywhere but my own mats.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

We go into more detail on this later, but essentially get on the mats with anything you can, and study Catch at seminars, through instructionals, whenever you can. It's not perfect, but all grappling is essentially wrestling at its heart.

[@fakename3042]

Wrestling I know well, the you tube on Catch I will trust your site for proper resources. I am not wanting to pursue adding Catch to my wrestling unless I know I am studying proper Catch material.

[@seraphx26]

Josh is just talking straight foward truth, no reason anyone should be upset by it, if Catch wants to grow it has to be willing to compete against any other style, whether it's BJJ or Sambo whatever. When I saw Curran Jacobs get humiliated by Quentin Rosenzweig it was an eye opener, because before that I had only seen Curran against other wrestlers and he looked brilliant but he got dominated by an unranked 10th planet guy. That does not mean all BJJ guys will beat Wrestlers but it's not a good look to have your champion so easily humbled, Curran looked like he had never encountered a guard before.

[@GridironMasters]

I've always trained in BJJ schools since the beginning (8 years) but quickly started seeing the wrestling in it. There really isn't anything in my region for adults that seriously trains wrestling so the internet has been my only window into CACC, sambo and folkstyle. I've had the same BJJ instructor since I started and thankfully he is also a black belt in Judo and JJJ and was also a fighter in his day but I think he's lost interest in that stuff and sticks to a very traditional BJJ. Anyway, just by applying what I learn online on the mat over the years makes people think I am originally a wrestler. It just goes to show how much is lacking in that area because I'm not some great grappler.

[@gaminghunt5837]

Great

[@HasturYellowSign]

Call it British jui-jitsu. Now there’s a marketing scheme

[@EnglishMartialArts]

There's a lovely interview with Daniel Cormier where he goes on a rant about that fact that no-one told him that there's "a jiu jitsu that is wrestling"

[@legitprowrestling6653]

This is awesome! I’m listening on my ride to practice! I’m super excited to get on the mat after watching! 🦾🦾

[@EnglishMartialArts]

You get mentioned several times throughout, mainly episode 3 I think!

[@rippersubmissionwrestling2704]

@legitprowrestling6653 Didn't you try and assault Mr Roy Wood a few years ago!? You have to be some sort of human being to threaten an old man!

[@legitprowrestling6653]

@@rippersubmissionwrestling2704 🐍🐍 😘

[@subhaanahmad2149]

​@@rippersubmissionwrestling2704Huh? What happened?

[@rippersubmissionwrestling2704]

@@subhaanahmad2149 Ask Chris what happened I only know for a fact he attempted to assault Roy Wood! This has been corroborated by multiple people one of whom was actually witness to it!

[@andytopley314]

Fight Team!

[@bobdownie.2806]

If I could do Catch rather than BJJ I would. I have learn some catch from training MMA, but I wouldn’t consider myself good enough to teach it. I don’t like the Gi, I don’t like the overemphasis on guard, I don’t like belts and I don’t like the loyalty to club crap within that culture either….or the absurd prices to train I might add. That said, BJJ is really good, just not as good as Catch.

[@Leon-R2D2]

Dedecation to practice is the key

[@MasterPoucksBestMan]

If only the whole world returned to cultural folk wrestling, and the average person were up to the level of "acceptable mediocrity". Then the higher skill levels would be past the solar system lol

[@RicoMnc]

"acceptable mediocrity". Ouch, this stings a bit because I live there most of the time. Maybe "uncomfortable" instead of "acceptable". I have to be wise and a bit cautious with training at my age, but I'd like to think I fight against my mediocrity enough to progress.

[@Lexthebarbarian]

He got it a lot from bjj, his trainer is a black belt. That people are pure cath wrestlers is exaggerated.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

You realise that's not true right?

[@boxybrown33]

Great don’t. Josh is right. Keep going!