The Stormlight Archive: Rhythm of War (Part V) by Brandon Sanderson Spoiler Talk

Mike discusses full spoilers for Part V (Chapters 98-117, Epilogue) of Brandon Sanderson's fourth entry into The Stormlight Archive, Rhythm of War.
You can purchase Rhythm of War here: amzn.to/3p6hfQT (physical) amzn.to/3euUilI (digital) amzn.to/2JJLQUn (audio)
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[@HeartyJoe]

Something a friend pointed out to me that helped my overall impression of what Brandon did in ROW is that Lezian the Pursuer as a one book antagonist is in fact an external manifestation of Kaladin's inner depression. He is relentless and haunts Kaladin as he awaits in ambush around every corner. Even after a defeat he is not truly gone and will return again. In the end Kaladin is content knowing that even if he can't "finish off" Lezian, he is ready to stand up to the fight and defeat him any future time he comes to knock Kaladin down.

[@kristen7623]

I love that!!

[@mikem1585]

I didn’t love the flashbacks in this book, but shoutout to the very last flashback with Eshonai and Stormfather...I thought that was a very touching scene.

[@Skraith]

Came here to say this. Really loved that flashback, the rest of them not so much.

[@radosawpapierski8610]

I really think that scene is a tribute to Sir Terry Pratchett. The dynamic between the Stormfather and Eshonai is very similar to how Death interacted with the recently deceased. Even the manner of speaking IN CAPITAL LETTERS is there.

[@jasonbrewbaker3932]

That’s cuz yall are racist haters - ifs it’s not your fave Kaladin or humans in general you guys sneer at the characters. Venli is prob the third most complex character after Dalinar and Kaladin / Shallan. Her motivations. Her jealousy and love. Her weakness and strength. Her greed and ambition. Evolving to become a true Knights Radiant.

[@andrewhanson405]

I had it spoiled that there was a Kelsier reveal at the end of this book and I still missed it when it happened

[@alexbubblemint2434]

LMAO SAME HERE. I got it spoiled for me on reddit, then STILL missed it when it happened. I didn't read Secret History though, so I missed that one thing.

[@siruglymane8343]

I just finished RoW but I’m only 15 chapters into mistborn. I didn’t even know he was in this book but the moment I read Lord of Scars I had a pretty good idea who he was (context: they beat you over the head that this man has scars lol)

[@MetalGildarts]

Taravangian becoming Odium was wild. I lost it. I had to sit there and process what I just read. Stormlight V is gonna be insane. Also I totally feel you Mike, I read so many series this year I don’t have time to sit there and obsess over everything in SA even though I love it to death.

[@thepragmatist2088]

That final chapter was brilliant. Honestly made me love the Stormfather much more.

[@henrywayne5724]

Quite frankly, despite his obvious plot importance, I wasn't the Stormfather's biggest fan. But seeing what he did for Eshonai had me in tears.

[@Sosroseno]

"I accept that there will be those I cannot protect." is just so, so powerful. One of my favourite moments in SA for sure.

[@huntersteed2880]

The Kelsier connection went right over my head. Don’t worry man

[@tannermckinley4248]

Kaladin is basically Goku, he turned Super Saiyan 4 this book

[@carlsmith4568]

I'm a Cosmere mega-fan and I completely glossed over the Lord of Scars comment... It's very subtle and clearly meant to be picked up by those looking closely.

[@katokhaelan4881]

"....one line, some email off some napkin, where he wrote a story somewhere..." Awesome!!! You rock

[@brightskysyl3913]

Growing up seeing my grandmother suffered from Alzheimer's make me appreciate all the flashbacks of this book. I deeply connected to that narrative and I cried so hard when Venli became a full Willshaper. I also bawled when Kaladin said his fourth ideal. Last time I bawled like that was during the end of The Hero of Ages.

[@jasonbrewbaker3932]

Same I was so moved by Venli and Jaxlim. I will never understand the hate for the Venli flashbacks. This book is both Venli’s and Navani’s but for me it’s Venli’s

[@ahkkha4560]

The last Eshonai flashback was awesome, it redeemed all the boring flashbacks for me

[@ducky36F]

I also struggle to see Kelsier as a pure bad guy. Will be interesting to see what happens with the Ghost Bloods

[@aldan7812]

Dude i put the book down and put away two glasses of red leading up to the Teft departure part.... I was CERTAIN that knife was gonna find Syl somehow and was in no way prepared emotionally if that was gonna happen lol.

[@trevorfultz]

My prediction for Karl’s 4th was “I will forgive myself for those I cannot save.” So I was pretty close. Loved the Tien scene sooo much! I was bawling!

[@carlsmith4568]

I would agree with you about Navani's bond to the Sibling being a little convenient, but I think Brandon did a well enough job building Navani as a character that really does embody the ideals of Bondsmiths. She brings people together.

[@KarolinaK00]

I didn't want Navani to become a Radiant, but it made so much sense for her to be the one to bond the Sibling as they manifest in the physical world as fabrials of the tower. And who understands fabrials and how to fix them better than Navani.

[@Devin_Davis]

I'm still trying to figure out why everyone hates kelcier.... I loved the guy

[@tadious9415]

I love him but I love him as the border line sociopath and power hungry madman that he kind of is lol. I definitely love him though he's awesome!

[@hakonfreyrgunnarsson6772]

Uuu why do you think everyone hates him? Most people love the guy!

[@Kal_Al_Thor]

I didn't read mistborn era 2 yet . So from what I gathered here kelsier is somehow revived and becomes a fuckin god....

[@tadious9415]

@@Kal_Al_Thor there's always another secret! But kelsier was worshiped even after he died in Era 1.

[@sjkrum320]

Okay, I literally had NO IDEA that lord of scars was supposed to be kelsiar (sp?) Mind blown! Teft...😭😭😭😭 #FMoash for real!!!!! I loved the scene with Moash and Navani I was fist pumping. What exactly do you think Taravodium (i LOVE this nane BTW) did to Wit?

[@henrywayne5724]

Am I the only one who liked this Sanderlanche the most? The Battle Of Thaylen Field was my least favorite Sanderlanche because well, to ME, it felt like Sanderson was trying so hard to top the Battle Of Narak. Don't get me wrong, "You can't have my pain!" was epic and all but there were just so many POVs and so much 'make-believe'(I don't know if anyone understands me but still...) Can you imagine how people would've reacted if Kaladin and Syl died?I would have lost my mind! And I probably wouldn't have had the strength to go on with the book. Also, why do I get the feeling that El might be as messed up as Zane(from Mistborn) was.

[@Haxerous]

I really like this Sanderlanche, probably second to WoK to me. I don't do too well with multiple PoV huge epic battle sequences. It's hard enough to follow on tv (or movies), in books it is worse for me. Also, it delivers the best set up for the upcoming book imo, and has the same vibe as WoA.

[@mrcliff3709]

​@Ashlin Mario I kind of have that problem with huge battles in books in general, though I try to rationaloze that battles are sometimes confusing but your mileage may vary

[@PutonaChicFace]

I "knew" Teft was going to die in this book, but I hated that it was Moash who killed him. I liked Moash previously because I saw him as an interesting way to build a "villain" (let's be honest, the more we know about the Cosmere, the harder it gets to label anyone as good or bad guys). But now he's literally influenced by Odium, so his actions lose a lot of impact for me. I only liked his interaction with Navani. But it felt kind of easy to just make him the bad guy who killed Teft. It's one of those "I expect more from an author like Sanderson" moments. For me, the biggest villain will always be Lirin. I had "a Lirin" as a father and, well... Also, I cannot wait for arc 2 so we get more Jasnah. I would actually say this was my 2nd favourite (tied with Way of Kings but I feel like I enjoyed RoW a bit more). Words of Radiance remains on a league of its own.

[@andrewhanson405]

I hate how he is portraying Moash too. Could have been a really interesting nuanced villain but has been turned into a two dimensional character

[@Haxerous]

I disagree. I still think there is interesting stuff in it. Especially when we get his PoV, and during the time when he loses his connection to Odium. He isn't doing it for being evil. A lot of it him just running away from his own guilt and mistakes and trying to seek validation for it. He isn't really influenced by Odium like the Fused are, he's doing what he is doing out of his volition.

[@KarolinaK00]

@@Haxerous completely agree. Especially when he thinks something along the lines of not regreting his actio s, just regreting how they made him feel after he lost his connection to Odium (dont remember the exact phrasing). I still think he's a complex villan, because I see how he got to where he is and his messed up logic, especially when he tries to get Kaladin to kill himself as a sort of a mercy for his friend, just makes my skin crawl anytime he's on the page. Love to hate him!

[@hansgougar1874]

I can understand your complaints with this book overall, but I have to say this might have been my favorite in the series. I loved it. All of the character work is top tier for me.

[@antongrigoryev6381]

I wonder if there's more to Cultivation's plan than just making Taravangian into Odium. I mean, she specifically touched three people - him, Dalinar, and Lift. Taravangian's and Dalinar's roles are obvious, they're both major players who, without Cultivation's touch, would go totally different roads, but what about Lift? Yes, she was important a couple of times, but I don't remember anything that specifically requires her gifts from Cultivation. She could've been a regular edgedancer and I'm not sure that much would change. So I wonder if there's more to her in the fifth book.

[@andrewaston6040]

1. Word of Radiance 2. The Way of Kings 3. Rhythm of War 4. Oathbringer Great Review! Thanks for the honesty.

[@OtherTheDave]

7:37 I believe it’s supposed to be a “spiritual echo” or something of Kelsier, not Kelsier himself. Anyway, IIRC, Sanderson said something like (paraphrasing) “Kelsier was a good guy because of circumstance. In any other story, he would’ve been a bad guy”. Now, “bad guy” can mean anything from “a bit of an a-hole” to “the ultimate evil” depending on the rest of the story, so you can read into that whatever you want. I agree that, aside from his views towards the nobility, he didn’t seem too bad in The Final Empire and IIRC most (all?) of his crew worked with him because they liked him, so I suspect he’s not very close to the “ultimate evil” end of the spectrum. Also, AFAIK, we don’t know the Ghostbloods’ big picture goals, only that their methods aren’t particularly ethical towards the Rosharans (or at least the ones that are lighteyes and aren’t members). IMHO, that lines up fairly well with how he treated the nobility in FE. Kelsier seemed like a complex person to me - probably basically a good guy, but with sufficiently serious blind spots in his ethics that he might as well not be unless he likes you (which would explain the GB’s loyalty to their members). Edit: Don’t feel too bad about missing it. I _love_ Mistborn and I didn’t catch the reference, either.

[@Haxerous]

the term you are looking for is Cognitive Shadow. He is essentially the same thing as Fused or a Herald, meaning that he could have gone mad over the centuries that we haven't seen him. In the past, he might have done more good than evil, but he can be a charismatic megalomaniac who will not stop at getting what he wants (exactly what the Ghostbloods embody). He more of a "dangerous entity" than an "ultimate evil".

[@OtherTheDave]

@@Haxerous Thanks! I’d forgotten about the “might go bat-guano insane” part... that could definitely complicate things, but I’m not sure how long one insane being could control an entire organization of sane people. Like, at some point after the insanity becomes too obvious to ignore, assuming the GB’s strong sense of loyalty prevents them from trying to kill/destroy the cognitive shadow, wouldn’t they at least stop recruiting? Seems like such an organization would have a limited lifespan, at least on worlds where Kel’s ghost can’t directly influence you like Odium can with the fused.

[@Haxerous]

@@OtherTheDave As I said, he is super charismatic to the point he literally created religion and people worship him as a god to this day. We see this even in the reverence Mraize talks about Thaidakar. I don't think he is totally loopy just yet, but he should be starting the feel the effects gradually which is why they wanted to capture Kalak and do some research on him. Besides, he only appears sometimes and probably only to his most trusted people, so he doesn't have to do much personally and delegate work to his crew (as he did previously). I would say he is more of a Leshwi than an Ishar. Although, even Ishar has managed to maintain control despite being the worst of the Heralds that we have seen so far.

[@OtherTheDave]

@@Haxerous fair points

[@Haxerous]

@@OtherTheDave something think about is that, back in Mistborn he had people like Vin and the Skaa to fight for. He had a good cause to work for (alongside his revenge quest of course). But now he doesn't have any of that really. His quest is fulfilled, so now he has probably become more like the old Kelsier, the theif that was sent to the Pits, the one we didn't get. So, I am guess that intent will start to take over his mind more and more. The Ghostbloods (or more so Mraize I guess) keep talking about "the hunt", which sounds like what Kelsier used to do back in the day with his grand heists and what not.

[@jessi4894]

Brandon has said that if Kelsier was in another story, he would be a villain, and that he is and I quote "A psychopath." I think the issue might be how Brandon sees Kelsier vs. How he comes across on the page. Mistborn Era 1 was so bleak, so miserable for the Skaa, the Lord Ruler was just so awful, that even though Kelsier was kind of murder happy in how he went about helping people, he came across as a really heroic person that everybody loved. Even though when you think about it, Vin appealing to his better nature was the only reason he didn't flat out murder Elend. I think Mistborn Secret History did a really great job at showing that even though in Kelsier's head he's helping, he's super connected to Ruin and not going about it in the best way.

[@tadious9415]

I'm looking forward to seeing Kelsier going from the Antihero we knew in Mistborn into more of an Antivillain where he thinks he has noble goals and wants to do what he thinks is right but is doing some pretty bad stuff!

[@Devin_Davis]

I'm still trying to figure out what he would be doing wrong lol 😆 I guess its all perspective

[@tadious9415]

@@Devin_Davis yeah hard to say what he's up to but even in the mistborn books he had quite a few times where he was fine just killing nobility because they were nobility. And the others were really surprised as he got more tolerant from vin's influence. Its not hard to see him going back to his thieving crew ways.

[@arielvasconcelos3502]

Maybe i missed somethinf about how you were doing the videos for RoW, but are you making a wishlist for the next book? Its dropping in december

[@mmccrownus2406]

RoW- Deeper issues, lots of great action; moving everyone's story forward, getting deeeper into each one's psyche. A lot of profound issues addressed in enjoyable and interesting ways. I even found Venli et al interesting. Can't have every chapter about Kal!

[@covya]

As for Navani, I have to admit that I saw her bonding the Sibling coming. It was the logical conclusion to her whole "not worthy" arc that she went on over the book. I had been assuming that the bait and switch was actually with Dabbid, though, and that Sanderson was setting him up to be the obvious choice that would be subverted in the end, and I assumed that Rlain would bond one of the honour spren that didn't want to trust humans again but wanted to help in the war.

[@kristen7623]

I totally missed the Kelsier reference too!!!

[@fatedhydra8074]

Im hoping that kaladin is done with getting down so far in the dumps. He can struggle from time to time but ive kinda gotten tired of all the redemptions in the stormlight. Its like YES this character has fought back from the darkness.....oh....he we go again.

[@MrIanHulstein]

Agreed. Im sick of mopey Kaladin.

[@antongrigoryev6381]

Kinda yeah. I had the same with Shallan, when her deal in this book was explained, I was like "Goddamnit, woman, who did you kill this time?". Arcs for her and Kaladin do get a bit repetitive, though a good part of it probably was because I binged all four books in a row, so my memories of previous ones were very fresh.

[@jasonbrewbaker3932]

Book 5 won’t be any improvement. I’m holding off on buying Wind and Truth cuz I have a bad feeling it’s gonna be a huge letdown…

[@alvarogalindotapia8848]

I think I can understand what you are saying by catching the references. This was definitely a book for Cosmere fans primarily, and I'm not. The only series that made me obsessed was ASOIAF, but not necessarily because of its theories(there are goods, anyway) but more because of the large amount of literary analysis that you can find (political, military, cultural, economic, historical, religious, psychological, etc), I suppose many other series also have these but in my case, that I have read several series, at most these were an entertaining moment, never the obsession of wanting to over-analyze even a simple paragraph...

[@covya]

I had theorised that Thaidakar was Kelsier before, PURELY because of Iyatil being southern scadrian (because of the mask) I then learned that she actually isn't, and was recruited from silverlight, but she is descended from Southern Scadrians. So that kinda killed the main reason to point it at Kaladin, BUT I never bothered coming up with another theory, so I am totally claiming that as an accurate prediction. Sanderson has said before the Kelsier would likely be the villain in any other story. If you actually stop to think about the stuff that they did in Mistborn, they're some pretty bad people, even if they are our protagonists :P He also said, when asked which of the Rosharan secret societies kelsier would join, that it would be the ghostbloods, and he'd likely be in charge of them within a year... you just KNOW that he was cracking up inside when he said that. This also makes the prologue of way of kings a bit more wild. Gavilar sitting on his deathbed, asking if it was Kelek or Kelsier who sent Szeth.

[@donalocribin3355]

It's also, if you think about it, a statement about Gavilar's ego. He thinks that the ones to kill him will be these grand secrets societies, or someone worried about his power. Instead it's the Parshendi, who he thinks of as kind of cute little oddities. Parshmen who can think. In other words, another example of Gavilar being an egotistical, self-centred asshole

[@JARHuygebaert]

Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, Oathbringer, Rhythm of War for me

[@svigdorrodgivs3998]

Am I the only one who didn’t like the whole Taravangian is now odium thing? Didn’t get the need for it at all. Maybe it makes more sense in book 5, but It pulled my rating down for ROW.

[@Haxerous]

Honestly, it is better that Taravangian is the final boss. Rayse was a nobody, we didn't really know him as a character whereas Tarabangian has been built up as a foil for Dalinar. Not to mention that Brandon did say that once we read Book 5 it will make sense as to why it was originally designed to be the Dalinar book, so now we can get a hint as to what he meant by that.

[@arshgrewal9487]

@@Haxerous I agree Brandon is going for Parallels Dalinar and Taravangian as both of them want to save the world but in different ways. This would make the last confrontation just epic. Rayse wouldn’t have felt that awesome since dalinar overcame his temptation in Book 3

[@eded9157]

Wait who is Kelsier? I mean, i remember Kelsier was the master of Vin

[@eded9157]

on Mistborn, but who was in this book? Mraize?

[@angelamccollister]

Don't feel bad about missing the Kelsier thing. I did too. Of course, I've only read the Mistborn books once over three years ago. I plan to reread all the Cosmere in three years before book five comes out to be more immersed in all of the connections.

[@tadious9415]

Yeah there's a ton of things that you'll only possibly pick up on a second or third read through. Especially some of the early Way of Kings chapters where he's throwing out names that are important and you haven't learned who they are yet.

[@reflexjat3822]

1. Rhythm of War 2. Oathbringer 3. The Way of Kings 4. Words of Radiance

[@colburn0004]

My biggest complaint about Sanderson and the cosmere is how much of it is confined to the words of Brandon and in some ways he writes more for the crowd who keeps up with those too much.

[@javiert9766]

I didn't read Secret History before RoW. So I had no idea Kelsier was even still around. When I read "Lord of Scars" I still remember dropping my Kindle and going WTF. I immediately had to google and find out what I had missed and immediately started reading Secret History.

[@baruch4256]

1.RoW 2.WoR 3.WoK 4.OB

[@AradanFtw]

15:30 I like Oldium the best!

[@JoeMama410]

I was hoping that somehow Dalinar would transfer the Sibling’s bond from Navani to Rlain. I was particularly glad to see the listeners continue to be a separate group. I want them to ally with Urithiru but remain independent.

[@rosierumsey]

I cursed you after seeing your wishlist and knowing what happened to teft! Lol. 😅

[@smaug1234]

my review, great action, nice character development, at times maybe a bit to convenient in design, but filled with both cosmere and world relevations and a few true WTF parts. I have said WOR was my fav in the series so far, I think that's still true but I think I enjoyed this more then WOK or Oath. On Dragon lady Cultivation, do you think she was in on killing Honor? I have thought of her as the good shard all along, but its possible she is also playing a different game. Wind runner plate is maybe a wee bit overpowered :) Brandon is def in superman territory now with the radiants, they are so powerful, and the fused don't seem to be keeping up. I hope we get to see what Shallan can do with two spren, dual wielding shardblades is cool enough but I wonder what else brandon will come up with to take advantage of this unique situation. I missed the Lord of scars ref also:)

[@carlsmith4568]

I think you're right about letting the book sit for a while before judging it. For me, reading a book as quickly as I did for RoW distorts my judgement of certain parts. Part 3 felt really slow, but I think why I didn't like it is simply because I was forcing myself to read as fast as possible. I'm sure that I'll appreciate this book when I reread it in the future.

[@thedoc4114]

I believe that Moash was blinded right? I wonder how that’s gunna work

[@callum7081]

This was my favourite ending of a storm light book although it’s only my 3rd favourite book

[@CrapSandviche]

MIKIE!!!! I’m missing from the Patreon list!!!!

[@lionheartstanza]

1. Words of radiance 2. Rhythm of war 3. Oathbringer 4. Way of kings

[@sixseasonsandamoviee]

I’m still on the fence about the 2nd and third position but rest is quite accurate for me too!

[@thesmuli83]

Great last Spoiler Talk. Clearly the best part of the book in my opinion, a really interesting part. In short, a great and good book but clearly the weakest part of the book series so far.

[@arlenakholin]

I was super upset that Navani ended up bonding the Sibling and not Rlain... My ranking is: WoK>RoW>O>WoR

[@mikesbookreviews]

Yeah, I'd have liked that better.

[@antongrigoryev6381]

Honestly, I can't see it. Rlain and Sibling bonding had no buildup other than a couple of sentences mentioning that Sibling wouldn't be against it. I feel it's kinda like the possibility of Kaladin and Shallan getting together in book 3 - while I could see it happening, it would require basically a full rewrite of respective sections to build up that relationship, and I don't think it would be for the better.

[@aldan7812]

P.S - I like Odivangian personally lol :-)

[@colburn0004]

Tod and Rod. Terivengian/Odium Tod. Rayes/Odium Rod.

[@VikasSBhat]

Oldium

[@ThanatoselNyx]

No offence to you but I hope those don't take off at all! They are lame af.

[@colburn0004]

@@ThanatoselNyx haha the lameness was intentional. By no means do I want that. 🤣

[@HeartyJoe]

You may wish to edit your description of Ishar's honorblade @4:10...

[@mikesbookreviews]

Shit happens when you record live. You just roll with it.

[@jonathanduarte9260]

It's also my least favorite

[@ErikGuin]

Taravodium!!! Love it!

[@stayaz8789]

WOK> OB/ROW > WOR

[@Arezoo298195]

1- WoR 2- RoW 3- WoK 4- OB

[@najeebhq]

ToDd...or VarGODium

[@ducky36F]

I liked this one better than Oathbringer tbh but Words of Radiance and Way of Kings are the best

[@narutobullock]

Big shout out to the stupid tower for finally doing something. And the king is dead long live the 👑.

[@JARHuygebaert]

Did I miss something about the tower doing something? It just came 'alive'...

[@narutobullock]

@@JARHuygebaert Your right and its still complaining.

[@loriannwhite8384]

Bring It On.

[@9Jov]

My current order is: WoR RoW WoK Oathbringer I love that the list varies so much from person to person. :D

[@henrywayne5724]

Mine is: 1. ROW 2. WOR 3. TWOK 4. OB It really DOES vary!

[@mercurydylan899]

1. WoK 2. WoR 3.RoW 4. Oathbringer Is my order

[@MetalGildarts]

1.Words of Radiance 2.Rhythm of War 3.The Way of Kings 4.Oathbringer

[@abmstudio3678]

1. Words of radiance 2. Rythm of war 3. Oathbringer 4 way of kings.

[@TeamSnitchSeeker]

It's been a while since I've read the first 3 books so maybe I missed it, but Odium saying he was the first to encourage humans/singers to surge bind was interesting. I'm wondering if at the very end of the whole series everyone will have to agree to walk away from these abilities in order to have peace. Also, they say that Honor is dead so many times in the series that I'm beginning to wonder if maybe that isn't true. The bit with the dead spren in the human realm was very disturbing. I was really worried that Kaladin would fall into the same path as Moash after Teft was killed so I absolutely loved his part in the end. The Venli stuff in the last part was fine; I just think it could have been much more compressed. I didn't need so many chapters on what she did because she was jealous of her sister; it just seemed to drag on and on.

[@imbored5951]

I loved the book but ill say this, whenever a chapter said x years ago I immediately skipped it. I also skipped Interludes of characters i didn't care for.

[@DarthSnugglePuss]

Oh hi Mike