The Synoptic "I Have Come" Sayings of Jesus and Pre-Existence - Dr. Simon Gathercole

Simon Gathercole is a British New Testament scholar, an elder at Eden Baptist Church in Cambridge, and Senior Lecturer in New Testament Studies and Director of Studies at Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge University. He was formerly Senior Lecturer in New Testament at the University of Aberdeen, Scotland for seven years. Gathercole received a MA at Cambridge, and later completed a MTh and PhD under James D.G. Dunn at the University of Durham.
Buy the book here: www.amazon.com/...

[@jamestomas3783]

This is pretty good stuff here!

[@jacovanzyl3035]

How is what you're doing here any different from Jehovah's Witnesses who only post research favourable to their position??? Did you know that James Dunn, the leading NT scholar wrote the most scathing critique of Gathercole's monograph? Alas, it is a very comfortable position be in if critical voices are never listened to...

[@LogosTheos]

Do you know that leading NT scholar Larry Hurtado (this same scholar finds Gathercole's book persuasive unlike Dunn) wrote a "scathing critique" of James Dunn's book, "Did the First Christians Worship Jesus": larryhurtado.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/dunn-was-jesus-worshipped-review.pdf I guess since I provided a "critique" by a scholar then that means that James Dunn's views must be automatically discredited?. ---->"Alas, it is a very comfortable position be in if critical voices are never listened to..."

[@jacovanzyl3035]

Err...no... One-sided scholarship is what is not good. And adding critique to a position adds dimension to it, which is strikingly absent from almost all Evangelical proposals, hence my comment. And Hurtado, just as Bauckham, commits the fallacy of classification, while ancient Christians assumed IDENTIFICATION, hence the futility of Hurtado's and Baickham's proposals. James McGrath and Andew Perriman added to the mix by pointing out H's and B's errors. Fact remains that worship (proskyneo) doesn't determine the status of the recipient. The IDENTITY and status of the recipient determines the extent of proskyneo. HUGE error with their attempts.

[@LogosTheos]

You can talk to Dr.Hurtado on his blog as long as your comment is relevant to the blog post: larryhurtado.wordpress.com/ He will be happy to deal with your claims. He has also dealt with McGrath;s erorneous claims before: larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/more-mcgrath-conversation/

[@jacovanzyl3035]

Great, then you are also welcome to visit the robust criticism of Trinitarian proposals here: www.trinities.org/blog www.christianmonotheism.com www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2010/11/responding-to-larry-hurtados-review.html www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2010/11/continuing-conversation-with-larry-hurtado-on-monotheism-christology-and-worship.html www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2010.11.continuing-conversation-with-larry-hurtado.html www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatirx/2010/11/concluding-the-christology-conversation-with-larry-hurtado.html Most of you Evangelicals live as isolated and sanitised from the criticism of your cherished views as the Jehovah's Witnesses from theirs.

[@LogosTheos]

Jaco van Zyl I've already read the exchange between Hurtado and McGrath years ago and I am not interested in Unitarian-cult apologetic websites.

[@jacovanzyl3035]

Oh dear...you're one of those. Sweet dreams to you.

[@Moe-bb3bm]

This is a heretic blasphemer

[@jamestomas3783]

You need to learn scripture sir before you comment.

[@Moe-bb3bm]

@@jamestomas3783 I'm very familiar with systematic theological topics and Hebrew culture too sir

[@Moe-bb3bm]

@@jamestomas3783 Jesus existed as the Word, Angel of the Lord, Jehovah but not as the begotten son because the word had not manifest in the flesh yet and born of a virgin. I agree Christ has always existed as God.

[@jamestomas3783]

@@Moe-bb3bm Jesus is Yahweh God Almighty, if you agree with that we got no problems

[@Moe-bb3bm]

@@jamestomas3783 Yes, I agree with your christological view, Jesus is Jehovah but so is the Father, and as 1 John 5:7 says there are 3 but they are one God. I got plenty of evidence to support my views. My theological view is the Trinity.