The Tempest - Episode 11 - The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill

Mars Hill grew dramatically in 2012, and it seemed like nothing could stop the church’s ever-widening expansion. Pastor Mark Driscoll’s book Real Marriage released that January, hit The New York Times Best Seller list, and launched a book tour and a series of television appearances that brought him into countless new homes and churches. But in the next two years, the church would experience endless controversy, turn over almost all of their staff, and discover that no efforts at PR or spin could hide the rot of a deeply dysfunctional culture of leadership.
The second-to-last episode of this series is a two-and-a-half-hour look at those final two years, especially between October 2013 and October 2014, to look at exactly what brought down one of America’s fastest-growing churches, and how some of the characters whose lives we’ve followed in this series weathered the turmoil.
The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity Today
www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...
It’s executive produced by Erik Petrik
It’s produced, written, and edited by Mike Cosper
Additional editing by Resonate Recordings and Matt Linder
Joy Beth Smith is our associate producer
Music, sound design, and mixing by Kate Siefker
Special thanks to Ben Vandermeer
Graphic design by Bryan Todd
Social media by Morgan Lee and Kara Bettis
Editorial consulting by Andrea Palpant Dilley
CT’s Editor in Chief is Timothy Dalrymple
Our theme song is “Sticks and Stones” by King’s Kaleidoscope
The closing song this week is “O How the Mighty Have Fallen” by The Choir

[@jackpoirier5023]

Christian men threatening someone to resign or private personal information will be posted on the internet? Not Christian at all.

[@Mary-hs3gu]

So sad. “People are dangerous” is the mantra for narcissists. Praying for all of those so affected. Thanks for this series. We all know we’re supposed to look to Jesus alone, but that’s hard to do with so many powermongers in sheep’s clothing.

[@isaakleillhikar8311]

People are dangerous.

[@maricamaas2326]

Jesus Himself did not trust people, because He knew what was in them.

[@chalky_white]

WOWWWWW. Unbelievably good job with this series. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@killymorrison2136]

I was just listening to this guy, Mark on tiktok.😢omg .my son told me to listen to this series.. I was shaken to my core.god is great .I'm not blind know more.

[@ferventheat]

I'm glad for you, may you be more and more discerning yet also loving, loving people in these churches so you can love them out of them.

[@golfergal]

absolutely horrific. How can the people in Scottsdale attend this man's church? He's doing the same thing down there. He's a monster!

[@leavingcorinth]

Sadly, many people don't care to know what happened

[@ferventheat]

"tickly ear syndrome" 2 Timothy 4v3, Jeremiah 5v31

[@chalky_white]

I'm so relieved to hear that Tim didn't sign that stupid document. I would have told him to pound sand. LoL

[@CasperLCat]

This CT series has some excellent psychological insights, but is short on basic Scriptural teaching on church leadership, especially that of Paul in 1 Tim 3, where even deacons must have proven character BEFORE serving, let alone elders. To wit: MD, a man who was never even a MEMBER of any previous church, starts his own, with himself as senior and teaching pastor ? IOW, he had NEVER been under any other authority but himself, prior to appointing HIMSELF to the leadership of MHC. Driscoll didn’t “go bad”. He was NEVER qualified, to LEAD a church in the 1st place. The question is not, what went wrong, but, why WOULDN’T it go wrong, since MD and its original elders ignored these basic Scriptural safeguards ?

[@Epic_Shotz]

I agree. You’d hardly know anyone speaking on this podcast was Christian. They never talk about how what happened connects to scripture.

[@EWTCNewsPodcast]

Mark is now making a comeback in some circles. We need to warn people to mark and avoid this man! Don’t drink the kool aid!

[@theargonauts8490]

People were warned about Driscoll beginning in at least as early as 2006. They fired him 8 years later, after the church was doomed.

[@ferventheat]

​@@theargonauts8490he resigned, before they could discipline him and restore those who he damaged.

[@Epic_Shotz]

He already has a huge church in Arizona

[@missouri6014]

After hearing all of these, I can’t help but to think of the similarities to Donald Trump today 2024

[@christineadamitus9824]

This is all so sad, there needs to be a lot of true and humble repentance from driscol

[@nsalaza]

I would also like to add that if Mark had no qualms about using the "God told me" card at the end regarding a "trap" set out for him, then it is entirely possible that God also never told him to start that church to begin with! It's possible, and even clear, that the whole thing was born simply out of his own selfish desire to create his own empire!

[@ldsish]

However his own selfishness was still used by the Lord to further His kingdom. There are people who came to know Jesus through this broken place.

[@nsalaza]

@@ldsish Absolutely! God can use anything and anyone at any time. But look at how much damage this one man's arrogance caused! God will hold him accountable for all of that!

[@bluetickbeagles116]

@@ldsish collateral damage for those who were hurt. I guess, touch crap for them.

[@machtnichtsseimann]

@@bluetickbeagles116 - I'm with you in terms of any lack of compassion and discernment for the victims...that ain't right. In the slightest. Another reality is that God uses individuals who can be quite narcissistic AND wanting to honor Him. Mixed motives. Varying degrees along the spectrum of purity in motives. ( IMO, the pride/arrogance of narcissistic preachers is "An Inconvenient Truth" that is often bassackwardly worshiped. And the enablers are a significant part of the problem, too. Who will take their share of the responsibility? )

[@Window4503]

@@ldsish That's true for just about anything. But it's kind of a moot point. The point is that it shouldn't have happened and that people also walked away. People come to know Christ DESPITE broken places. Through them? Sure, but not BECAUSE they're broken, but because God is powerful. We can't excuse sin or "brokeness" (the latest Christian buzzword) just because God had to step over extra crap.

[@naegwut]

I'm concerned once people refer to themselves in third person

[@johntobey1558]

This is very, very good journalism. NPD no doubt.

[@js1817]

What is NPD?

[@ezbody]

​@@js1817 Narcissistic Personality Disorder

[@Continuum7]

To shock of no one Driscoll has NDA's and a massive multi-million fund of church money just to sue and send cease and desists letters at his new place in AZ. It doesn't take much web searching to find story after story. Also while I heard the guy who leaked the William Wallace II controversy wasn't doing it for goodness but spite I simply do not care, what goes around comes around and I have no issue with Driscoll getting backlash for the utterly awful stuff he said back then and no doubt still believes to this day.

[@Mari_Oh]

Here here!

[@abledhomedefender]

Wow. The irony. I lost track of Mark around the time all of this went down. How absolutely childish was his behavior going to MacArthur's conference and pulling the, "God told me it was a trap" card instead of submitting to church discipline. Crazy. It's even crazier that he reinstated himself to the ministry and that he has a congregation under his leadership now.

[@erichodge567]

Great reporting. You brought the receipts.

[@maricamaas2326]

Yes, indeed: "The most controlling people are the most fearful."

[@Star-dj1kw]

❤ best insight of this episode 1:51:24

[@kellycasperhanson4426]

At this point in the podcasts, I don't see what differentiated Driscoll from any other cult leader. How tragic.

[@lilchicklets]

It's clear that Driscoll hasn't learned from his past mistakes and continues to make them. He WILL answer to God, like we all do.

[@sarahuber8567]

It’s like pastors are stage performers now. And so many people fall for them.

[@jimmybrowning4888]

It seems strange that mark preached so much about men being men seemed to surround himself with men who could not or would not stand up for themselves. I had heard about driscolls crimes and bad things he did but listening to this simply blows my mind at just how evil a man he is. It would seem its been forgotten as now people are out there taking up for him totally oblivious to what he's done. As for all these teary-eyed guys and gals, i have no pity for you, you watched what was going on and went along because you profited from it. The pastors and wives looked forward every year to there getaway paid for by working people who gave money thinking its for the furtherance of the Gospel of Christ, not to fund a party for the survivor's of mark driscoll horror show you all can save your tears.

[@maricamaas2326]

He used his preaching to emasculate and shame; this in order to control those under his authority.

[@maricamaas2326]

As far as judging those who were drawn in and eventually hurt by MD: For good reason we are warned in Scripture against wolves in sheep's clothing. Can any of us honestly claim to never have been (even for a short period) deceived by another? In the beginning it is not as clear, yet eventually they are known by their fruit... It comes to mind how Jesus was aware how (some of) His disciples would turn against Him, yet even this was part of God's plan...

[@js1817]

I'm gobsmacked that Driscoll told a guy to move out of the area. I'd have told him to sod off.

[@glo9547]

Wow... I did not think she was rude at all! Here's what I notice in this age ... what used to be an occasional knee jerk reaction by people who are offended only takes a frown now!

[@harrybiggmuth2765]

Driscoll has the same DNA morally as Scientology COB David Miscavige😡

[@annielane22]

Exactly! Especially how they shun anyone that leaves the church

[@aliceinoregonland3942]

I was thinking the very same thing!

[@RICKtoSICK10]

Honestly these podcast episodes just open my eyes to the fake Christians that live among us. The things that they say I feel as though most people are taking the liberties we have in Christ to far and not using it to honor God.

[@Window4503]

Parable of the weeds and the wheat. Jesus had already warned us.

[@TheRealRenn]

What an entire joke this whole mess is. The guy (Jesse) complaining about the Harvard guy and constantly Eff-Bombing and explaining how he "hates" him. Not surprising we have these business men in our "churches" who are entirely UNQUALIFIED in any spiritual sense. A total joke it is and not surprising in these last of the last days reprobate "churches" that are 100% NOT matching what The Church...The Body of Christ actually is. And we all sit there like dumb bleating sheep...in the well padded chairs, enabling these wolves. God help us...God save us for what we have become and how we have shamed you and your Son's sacrifice.

[@Epic_Shotz]

Amen. I thought the same.

[@theargonauts8490]

Keep in mind, that ALL those Mars Hill brass interviewed beyond about mid-episode were active participants and complicit with Driscoll’s behavior, hostilities, firings, financial mismanagement, non-competes, ostracism, and bullying. For Years! Notwithstanding, their tears and sad stories, they are rats escaping a sinking ship. Driscoll was a GQ corporate mobster surrounded by culpable soldiers.

[@maricamaas2326]

The authority model of leadership allows for toleration of much abuse from the top - downwards. Contrary to this, we are called to submit to one another - in reverence to Christ, and those in leadership are to be viewed as servants of those following...

[@kylearmstrong1188]

Seems to me the only reason these elders would want to keep Mark Driscoll around is for the massive financial incentive he must bring to the ministry. Why else? He doesn’t seem to be a very good man.🤷‍♂️

[@debbiemoseley3570]

I just stumbled on this video. Why the swearing? Why is Christianity Today allowing this?

[@Epic_Shotz]

They are liberal and progressive, that’s why. CT is nothing like what it was.

[@Cooltreevr]

Someone took me to this church and it was a blast(surface level) the preacher was entertaining but not somebody I would want to try and meet after service. This pastor doesn’t remind me at all of Jesus Christ. Uno Some Christians I marvel at. It’s like a sixth sense they give off(spirit maybe?) Ya this pastor not so much.

[@valentinamorales2403]

I keep.listing to this pod cast this is a classic an abuser that he was able to gaslight even men .they were under a very bad man who sound it good ,but had control now they know how a women feel when they understand this kind of distress which nobody believes cause the abuser act differently around other people and it very different in private.

[@maricamaas2326]

What was done in darkness, is eventually brought to light. Never easy to be a whistle blower; a test to either pass or fail. Nevermind other consequences; how to live with oneself when not true to your conscience...

[@Star-dj1kw]

✅

[@valentinamorales2403]

Also he left everyone confused and with a terrible fog in there head sir that what happened when a narcissist does to the brain where they lived on flight and fight mode on survival mode.. Now he left with out no care and found another supply left Washington to Arizona while people are suffering the consequences of his abuse. Wow

[@Epic_Shotz]

This is what narcissists do. They leave destruction in their wake. He is all fake; there’s no “restoration” for him because he doesn’t think he has a problem. And his poor wife..

[@stephanies3246]

I briefly met attended Mars Hill’s downtown campus. I met Tim Gaydos ONCE. He was an a$$🕳️ . After I introduced myself he told me he knew who I was in a hostile tone. We’d never met before. Cringy and weird. It took awhile to figure out that church was not friendly to minorities.

[@aliceinoregonland3942]

This church was not built on the biblical strength and truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ! It was built on the shaky foundation of a very flawed un-biblical narcissistic!

[@albertmilton9424]

Kind of interesting to see the glowing reviews for Real Marriage after hearing about how there was backlash. You'd honestly never know.

[@davidanddaniellerosales9974]

I have personally received a lot of good word from Marks messages and from real marriage content in the last couple years. I do believe Mark has changed. He by no means is a perfect person and has clearly made a TON of mistakes. It's sad how pride and love for the self still brings destruction. Even if the truth simply lacks loves, it still lacks christ

[@Continuum7]

@@davidanddaniellerosales9974 changed????? Have you read or seen ANY of the articles about his controversy at his new cult in Arizona and the hundreds that left, the surveillance of a boy and his family, then all the cease and desist letters like he runs a company? Dude is worse than he was at MH except in Arizona he runs unchecked with even more power where no one can dethrone him, he made sure of that. You should do a little more research before thinking he has changed at all. Even if you want to disbelieve it, keep in mind the many people that left his new 'church' didn't even know about the past and what happened at MH yet left and told eerily similar stories of abuse and controversy. Where Driscoll goes destruction comes.

[@brackishnz]

​@davidanddaniellerosales9974 if he's changed why does he have no eldership at his new church?

[@ezbody]

​@@davidanddaniellerosales9974 Narcissists can't change, especially religious narcissists. Any preaching is good if you have no foundation and nothing to compare it to.

[@maricamaas2326]

​@@davidanddaniellerosales9974 Clearly a dangerous wolf in sheep's clothing... Why found to be defending him?

[@coolbrit56]

I dont feel sorry for Jessie. He knew it was toxic.

[@user-ln6pu7kq9j]

Why is Jesse- a former Christian leader- swearing so much?! That’s so weird to hear a Christian leader speaking with so much profanity.

[@vigo4989]

“Former Christian leader”

[@theblessingisreal9116]

Because most if not all of them aren’t christians. Their fruit is proof. They just had jobs and head knowledge. No heart work. No cleaning the inside of the cup. Sad and scary that their are so many more in mainstream “Christianity” deceiving and being deceived. He’s convinced he’s better than Driscoll but he’s no better than Driscoll in God’s eyes.

[@Window4503]

Some Christians justify it with the rationale that real swearing is misusing God's name or insulting others, and using that language for other things is okay.

[@nyeahgarner2420]

​@Window4503 I'm one of those. Jesus used many words to describe ungodly men that are very comparable to English "dirty words". I believe it's what's behind those words.

[@Epic_Shotz]

I don’t know if any of the people on this podcast are true Christians or if they are they are immature in the faith. Swearing in our culture speaks volumes about your character. You can’t say they’re just words.

[@johnnyb5430]

Nothing more then a hit piece, like Mark more after listening to this. Not perfect nobody is but there is nothing substantial here.

[@Epic_Shotz]

How in the world can you not see Marks phoniness? Wanting 50,000 church members and making people sign “non competes”? Why would any Christian pastor not want more churches in the area not less? Because mark is in the business of entrepreneurship church planting; specifically HIS churches. He wants the administration and money. It’s why he goes to great lengths to be the top dog. It has nothing to do with spreading the gospel. That alone should give you pause. You only like his style

[@ccavicch]

Too many commercials

[@TheDannywolff]

don’t be so cheap there’s a way to get out of that!

[@ludimilamiranda626]

The séries is hard, but This ep 11 is The worst!!