The Three-Peak Mountain Snowflake Lie

[@dineshjagar7447]

Those in snowy areas that are flat probably won't feel the "need" for snow tires. It took me just one massive snow storm in the Sierras to learn. (And that was in a GX460). Never again. I now put on Nokian Hakkapellitas LT3's for the winter ski season in California. Like the video says, going through the Sierra with snow tires is almost unexpainable vs without them. It really is that much difference. My biggest worry isn't me, it's the vehicles behind me that think their heavily modified Jeep/Ford can keep up, not knowing their big lift and "4-wheel drive" means little to nothing. There are VERY few Californians that roll on Nokians with an AWD type system.

[@charlesb4267]

I am curious what vehicle your running the Nokian LT3's on and if they are the factory studded version ?.

[@dineshjagar7447]

@charlesb4267 '18 GX 460, no studs, load range E, felt that going with studs was a little much coming from a no-snow area in CA.

[@charlesb4267]

@@dineshjagar7447 I wasn't sure of the current vehicle in question the way you mentioned the GX 460. I thought perhaps it was a heavy duty pickup you may have had them on present day. I will say I am surprised you ended up with the LT type tire simply because the P rated tires are the ones that typically across the board are better ice performers and ride better, however would never compare to the toughness of an E rated tire. Also the best winter compound P rated tires would literally melt off quite quickly if driven on dry pavement in warmer weather and a place like California has such a drastic climate difference between the valley floor, the coast, or south vs the Sierras. I am happy to hear that the Nokian LT3 with no studs actually has some ability as it so happens I have a brand new set of the Hakka LT3 studded mounted on wheels sitting in a shed waiting on a one ton truck that was supposed to be in my hands by now but still isn't built.

[@dineshjagar7447]

​@@charlesb4267 Yup, tire toughness was #1 for me. I do put hella stuff in the GX nearing the GVRW of the GX (Skids, sliders, etc). I'm sure your truck is way heavier than mine and more deserving of the LT3. I was battling between Hakka LT3 and the Hakka R5 SUV.

[@charlesb4267]

@@dineshjagar7447 Yes, if you were looking for a tough tire, a winter P rated tire is certainly not where its at, sure it may do quite fine on pavement but if one starts pounding around on gravel roads for example or even off roading with snow/ice/wet sharp rocks, and dry rocky roads, ( not that a winter tire really should be used in that way ! ) a P rated winter tire is really pushing ones luck on a heavier vehicle without a doubt. The tire size my "unbuilt" truck has, I don't believe any tire companies make a P rated winter tire of that size even if I wanted to do something that fool hardy with a truck of that weight.

[@hugolafhugolaf]

The secret to proper snow tires is not just the threads, but the compound.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

indeed....it's extra squishy and doesn't harden in low temps

[@hugolafhugolaf]

@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD Exactly. I used studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta 10 SUV.

[@ShelleyCook]

Thanks for the info. I replaced my old worn out blizzaks with this type of tire and now I feel conned. It makes me wonder, why don’t they put that symbol on every tire if the standard is so low. Or are regular tires just 10% worse?

[@johnjacobjingleheimerschmi5372]

Best snow tire I’ve ever run on were Bridgestone Blizzaks. Grip like glue in snow. Im sure there are one or two others as good but dont know what they would be.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

Blizzaks are amazing and were our personal "reference tire" in discussing the differences in this video... had them on a FWD Honda Civic CRXsi in the 1990s ... during a snowstorm when all the other SUVs were crabwalking in a blizzard the Civic was just eating it up like nothing... we got lots of looks that day 😆

[@poolplayerbrian]

I'm enjoying your channel. I've lived in South Dakota for the last 5 years after being stationed here, and recently got KO2s for my truck. They handle fine in the snow. We have Blizzaks for the family car which is one of the best rated winter tires on the market, but they need to be changed out after the season or else they will be ruined over the summer. The truth is driving on snow covered roads requires extra caution no matter what, the blizzaks can only do so much, and you still have to be very aware of what other drivers are doing.

[@bruceyyyyy]

Nice hat. I've said the 3 peak is useless for years now. I tested one back to back against an AT.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@@bruceyyyyy thanks it's an Urkel hat 😆

[@roywarriner8441]

BFG KO2's are all terrain tires with the 3 peak symbol. Do you mean you tested AT's with the symbol against AT's without?

[@tested123]

question. if a really aggressive summer tire somehow beats the tigerpaw by 10% then would it get the symbol? sounds to me like they dont factor in the rubber compound at all.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

yes....the bar is low... the goal post is near... the symbol is a passive sales-pitch

[@doormat1980]

Exactly why I run two sets of tires in Colorado.

[@samspina3249]

Living in the Milwaukee/Chicago area and buying a $600 set of Bridgestone Blizzak’s from Costco for my 3rd gen 4runner and a $100 set of rims last year was the best money I’ve spent in awhile. Even doing doughnuts in a parking lot with 4WD off was a challenge. They just grip so good and I’ve never felt so unstoppable in a storm. Plus, they’re half the price of my Falken Wildpeaks AT3W’s that I run for the rest of year so those should last twice as long.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

Blizzaks and Ice-Xs rule! ❤️

[@YotaDaryl]

I feel like my entire childhood has been a lie😂

[@D.Dragoon]

In my best Jack Nicholson voice: YoOu CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

[@Cocora22]

I run Vredestein Wintrac Pro on my GX 460 in the winter. I have a second set of wheels with these on them. I'll swap back again in March.

[@sullivanbob2000]

You are telling the exact truth ! You definitely need the snow/ winter tires !

[@FullTimeGT]

Living in Quebec, Canada. Snow tires are mandatory from December 1st to March 15th. For sure Winter tires Standards are weak. Seeing too much 4 seasons tires with the Three-peak Mountain Snowflake, they all are garbage. Same with most A/T Tires, garbage. Rubber compound for these tires too hard in cold weather. True Winter tires have a softer rubber compound that will bites in the snow and ice when cold. For Winter I'm using Studded Hakkapiletta LT3 on my First Gen Tundra since I'm using this truck occasionally on the highway, often on icy and heavy snow road conditions, and Non-Studded Hakkapiletta 10 for my Camry. Also using Michelin X-ICE on my wife's Accord. We never get stuck... almost... should not say never, Montreal is very difficult to drive in snowstorms.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

preach! say it louder 👏 🙌 ❤️

[@aaronyoung6903]

Finally! Someone talks about this. I have the KO2s on my 2024 Jeep Wrangler and those tires SUCK. Anytime it snows I cross my fingers that I’ll make it to work. On top of that it has the Auto 4WD system which also sucks (story for another time).My wife’s Acura RDX with SH-AWD plows right through the snow with just the OE tires.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@aaronyoung6903 All A/T tires are basically BFG KO2 clones which is a 100% desert-racing tire designed to win the Baja 1000 in the 1970s... hard compound... nothing like a.genuine snow tire... "snow wheelers" learn this rather quickly offroading KO2s in the snow

[@otarsulava]

You are saying right... I recently got a Hankook Dynapro Extreme, has 3 peak mountain sign but description is saying: On road / Off road AND light snow condition, so if its a fairly heavy snow It is not recommended? kinda confusing...Anyway it does performing well so far...Also to add, I have few years already in my trunk the spray can, looks like a tire shine, but you spray on a thread , it forms a fresh rubber layer on it and improves traction, name is - Tire Grip Black Ice, search online, has a yellow sticker with a blue top.... drive safe

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

emphasis on that _LIGHT_ snow... the BFG KO3 page will say the same thing: _light_ snow.... que snow-wheelers in 2 feet of snow with Baja 1000 Desert Champion KO2s crabwalking...

[@trevorwalton]

In my experience, replacing Yokohama Geolander ATs with Nokian Outpost APTs, on my Subaru, the Nokian's with the 3-peak symbol actually do handle considerably better in snow than the standard all-season Yokohamas did. Being in SoCal, where the only winter driving I do is to go skiing/snowboarding in the local mountains, dedicated winter tires would be total overkill. The 3-peaks also serve another purpose. They qualify as a "snow-tread" at Caltrans chain checks, thus assuring that I won't be forced to put cables on my AWD car to drive slowly up the mountain in 2" of snow, 'cause someone manning a chain-check decides to follow the letter of the law, which requires chains on even 4x4s and AWD vehicles, unless they have "snow tread".

[@gramps5157]

Oh my goodness! That's crazy. Great info.

[@toyotas4ever]

My whole world is a lie! 😢

[@2URLex]

Great video because it’s winter and winter offroading videos are being churned out every few hours and every vehicle has 3psf tires and struggling/getting stuck. They soon tires flinging the snow from the lugs which is the opposite of what you want for traction.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@2URLex don't get me started... lol.. I've been seeing those "snow-wheeling" on _desert racing tires_ videos too... some even did some body damage... the needless "air down" makes it worse because they are lightening the compaction/friction zone.... they seem think knobby dirt-bike tires are the answer in snow.. oh boy maybe we need to do that video? lol

[@2URLex]

@ it’s even crazier when I see people with M/T rated tires in snow and ice lol

[@ferg4847]

Great subject!! Keep Grinding!!!👍🏾✌🏾

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@@ferg4847 🙏 🫡 👏 🙌 ❤️

[@connorjones1485]

Fact of the matter is that most people aren’t going to run two sets of tires in most areas. Definitely does need to be a better way to designate which all season/all terrain tires perform well. I have Toyo AT3s. They have plenty of siping and should perform quite well. We’ll see this winter. I live in Utah, so I’m not likely to need a dedicated set of snows, doesn’t snow often enough. Having driven with snows, I’ll take a 2wd economy car, like my old focus or a rwd sports car like my old Merkur both with snow tires, over my Audi a4 Quattro or my Subaru outback, or my 92 f250 4x4 on AT/AS tires. It makes that much difference.

[@daved6464]

Thats why you have watch several winter reviews. I just watched several winter tire testing videos and its schocking how much differance there is.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@daved6464 "shocking" describes it... real winter tires (blizzak, ice x etc) make you actually _want_ to look for snow and drive in it 😆

[@BigBoyz33]

i'm glad i went with Wildpeaks over the K02s. After seeing a 4x4 Silverado with K02s get stuck in 6 inches of snow, i had to get some Wildpeaks and they have been incredible

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@BigBoyz33 I think the Willdpeaks have more sipes? We have both Wildpeaks and KO2S and the KO2 hardly has any ... with that said, this: kzbin.infoFiIVlXAL3AA?feature=share

[@Slavic_Boer]

my 3 Peak on/off Kuhmo tires are good in snow. Enough I don't need 4WD. Because they are slightly softer, they won't last as long as a true AS tire. True snow tires will be much better for more deeper snow and icy conditions

[@A_FJ]

AT is not for snow. MT is not for snow. The cheapest winter tyre will perform much better than the best 3 peak-rated all-season tyre. Stock sized winter tyre performs better than 35" MT in snow. Trust me, I'm from northern Russia.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@A_FJ we had a set of Blizzaks in some snowstorm around 1999... suvs and 4x4s were sliding around everywhere... we were in a FWD Honda Civic CRXsi and the tires just ate up the snow and the Blizzaks were ONLY on the _front_ .... SUVs gave us shocked looks that day 😆

[@MarktheRude]

@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD Ah man, Honda CRX's look just amazingly fun. Kinda wish I had one as a hobby car. Too bad they're kind of rare now.

[@oohbabybloo]

So how do you know when the tire is good? I hope it’s not trial and error lol.

[@kittydaddy2023]

It's trial and error. You can read comments on Tire Rack, but a lot of comments are like this: "5 stars, I just put them on, might update this later"

[@6spacin9]

It is because they are KO2's Used to love the BFG A/T. The KO2 came out though and they were basically crap compared to the previous tire. Snow and rain performance went way down. A few of my friends even had them taken off after about a month and threw them away and tried other brands.I hope the KO3 is back to being a good tire.

[@EthCepher]

Studded winter tires are amazing; Nokians are the best imho!

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@@EthCepher studded rules!

[@kubibear2890]

All weather with 3pms work fine ,but AT and MT in snow have always been bad.

[@lazyrider6918]

My Goodyear Assurance Weatherready 3 Peak tires are great in wet conditions and better than my old Michelin Defender all season tires in the snow. I know a dedicated winter tire is better, but here in New Jersey, my Goodyears are doing a great job.

[@tested123]

is their a standard that winter tires are judged by?

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

not officially ....something like a Blizzak or Ice-X is a traditional customary winter tire standard...

[@skelelator]

1000 percent correct. I have Cooper AT3's on my 1983 Jimmy that I use to plow. They are rated with the 3 peak mountain, and aren't worth doodly squat in heavy wet snow when plowing. Riding around on the road they are fine in snow, but not when that Fisher is dropped and pushing snow. I bought another set of rims and Blizzaks and there is no comparison with the traction between them. as bad as the Coopers are, the Blizzaks are superb. I have my own cheesy youtube video where I say the same thing

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

Yes! We had Blizzaks in the 1990s on our Honda Civic CRXsi in a blizard... fronts ONLY... the SUVs were crabwalking while the Civic just ate it up 😆.. we got lots of jaw open looks that day lol

[@jaypikachu6660]

Learn something new everyday, thanks😊

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

🙏 🙇‍♂️ ❤️

[@artbencomo317]

That is crazy. When I see the beginning of your videos it sounds like me and my Tacoma riding the skid plates. 😂.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@artbencomo317 heck yes!! Work that Taco!! ❤️ ✌️

[@TheAndersonOBrien]

Even though you are right, ya gotta remember the one issue with snow tires, except for Nokian’s with Aramid Fiber, the sidewalls and tread tend to be rather weak when driving on rocky and roads with tons of nails. The good thing about KO’s are the durability even in the snow tires

[@MontanaMedic13]

I have 2 similar Jeeps in the family one has Blizzaks the other has Pirelli All Terrain Plus (3P❄️). For sure the Blizzaks are on another level of performance. I wouldn't say our ATs are crap they are much better than some ATs i have ran over the years. If the Blizzaks are a "10" I would give the Pirellis a 6 in winter. Compared to the OE all seasons which I would give a 3. Tire rack does some decently comprehensive testing and I picked the ATs that we purchased as they were among the best in the tests knowing that they are never going to perform like a true winter tire. I completely agree that most people are totally clueless about the criteria. The real tragedy is unfortunately people end up in some bad crashes because they believe the 3P❄️ marketing materials and go zooming around thinking they have "winter tires".

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@MontanaMedic13 I think you said it best 💯... the issue as you said is the assumption that 3 peak A/Ts or A/S = Blizzaks or Ice-Xs ... that's the shady part

[@MontanaMedic13]

​@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD absolutely. I've worked so many accidents (I'm a Paramedic) over the years where people said they have no idea why the crashed, saying "I have winter tires" and they just have AT 3P❄️ tires. It's honestly one of the first things I look at when I respond to a car crash, I have an unhealthy obsession with tires. I usually will also see if they were in 2 or 4wd as well. You can have super awful worn out tires , go drive over a mountain pass in a snowstorm and not crash. As long as you know what you are working with traction wise. The 3P❄️ causes overconfidence and it seems like a liability for the tire manufacturers.

[@DouglasGreen562]

I'm envious of your hat.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@DouglasGreen562 I think it's real rabbit 🐇 🐰 fur too?

[@D.Dragoon]

It probably was delicious too😊!

[@charlesb4267]

@@D.Dragoon I can see the vegan snowflakes screaming now LOL

[@iwazaru8101]

That is why the 3-peak symbol only has ONE snowflake (very, very light snow conditions). Otherwise, the symbol would be a snow-covered mountain (🏔) or the standard weather symbol for a blizzard (🥶). LOL Okay, I'll show myself out. Thanks for another good video.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@iwazaru8101 I see what you did there 😏 😉 and it's brilliant 👏... 😆 one snowflake ❄️ is the truth

[@thebeast9606]

You can't talk about the 3PMSF Rating and show the KO2, one of the most notoriously horrible all-terrain tires in the snow.😂😂😂

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@thebeast9606 that was the whole point 😆 somehow it "earned" the 3PMSF because it's 10% better than a Tiger Paw 🐾

[@JustinRamirez-h8p]

I see a lot of guys run KO2 here in Canada 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@nickgeorgiou4350]

Unfortunately our whole lives have been a lie, from our food to our financials and your not allowed to know that but one day you will and that day is close

[@charlesb4267]

There is a new winter tire rating that has come out within just the last few years and I had not heard of it until recently. Its referred to as a "Ice Grip Tire Rating" and its also a triangle looking insignia but looks a little different then the three peak mountain snowflake symbol. All I have found so far is that its supposed to meet a minimum standard of 18% better traction on ice vs the standard reference tire but I have not found what that reference tire is as that will mean everything to the rating having a viability. For example there are only two of the Nokian winter tires so far that meet this rating. As far as I know both the three mountain peak snow flake rating and this new rating will be right beside each other on the tire sidewall.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

Yes, 18% is getting getting more accurate for a true winter tire... the SRTT seems to still be the 16" A/S Tiger paw 🐾... it would be nice to see something like a Blizzak vs the SRRT and then have the Blizzak become the benchmark reference for a true winter tire... I think market forces are primarily concerned with "including" as many tire types as possible within the "winter" category for sales reasons...

[@connorjones1485]

@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROADthere needs to be a variable rating of some kind. Not just meet a low benchmark. But some sort of rating system for how close to a true winter tire you can get.

[@connorjones1485]

And it is hard to get a good test. I’ve driven in winter conditions all over the country. CO is very different from SoCal mountains or WA cascades or east coast. Ice verses slush verses hard pack, versus powder. Most treacherous conditions I’ve ever driven was Lake Arrowhead CA winter of 2016-2017.

[@charlesb4267]

@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD So put another way this will be round two of an almost meaningless tire designation that by the sounds of it if they are still using the same old technology bench mark tire, will be another tire sales tool. Nokian seems to be the one having jumped on board first, not sure if they are the ones who came up with this idea. Your idea about there being an actual decent winter tire as the benchmark makes perfect sense to you and I but that could exclude many so so winter tires and they just can't have that happening !. Typical politics and games which ironically I think I would be fairly safe to say has caused accidents by those that equipped their vehicle with a 3PMS all terrain tire when their environment screamed out for a true winter tire due to the icy roads.

[@tested123]

i live in canada and i had falken aklimates installed today. they have the 3 peak but i would buy them even if they didnt. the tread is really interesting. im a little concerned about hot summer tread wear. we will see. at least they are fresh for this winter.

[@raymond_sycamore]

god damn three peak snowflakes nice lexi

[@daniel.s.stefanov]

TL;DW: They just pay for the logo, no real testing.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@@daniel.s.stefanov basically yes lol

[@NIKITARYZHOV]

Three peak rated tires are better for snow than all seasons, but they don't claim to be winter tires. I don't see any deception here. It doesn't make sense to compare these to actual snow tires because they aren't snow tires.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

True but it's fair to say the symbol _implies_ more than it actually delivers in snow conditions... it's sneaky by design... there's even "3 peak sales-pitch training videos" out there by the tire associations aimed at training retail tire salesmen on how to "sell the 3P logo"... they knew exactly what they were doing with this sticker 😉

[@chriss729]

So the tires without the snow peak are REALLY shitty.

[@85mackey1]

Not necessarily. There are plenty of all terrain tires that do better than the three peak tires. Some manufacturers won’t even bother with the testing.

[@dadventuretv2538]

There are nothing like dedicated snow tires in snowy mountainous conditions. But if you don’t have that all winter long, and will encounter non-snowcovered roads, there are also nothing like winter tires. IYKYK. Here’s the rub- while to get the symbol it may require only being 10% better, there are some I’m sure that are quite a bit better. I can say that definitively bc I have been running Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws on my Gladiator for three winters now and they are quite good in the snow. Deep tread that evacuates well, lots of sipes, and, according to them which based on their performance I guess is true, a good compound that won’t harden in the cold. They took me over the mountains between VA and WV in the middle of a snow storm that dumped about 16 inches in a few hours last year. I was the first vehicle making tracks towards the top.

[@dslpwr]

eh, being in Minnesota I have used all sorts of tires. On my RAM 2500 I have had stock Firestones, KO2's, Yokahama Geolander X-AT's....the KO2's worked extremely well in the snow...the others absolutley horrible....I'm now replacing the Yokohama's with the KO3's. On my daily driver Honda Accord, I got tired of swapping dedicated snow tires so a couple years ago I went with the Michelin CrossClimate's all weather tires....now yes that are not as great in the snow as a dedicated snow tire but to my surprise they actually perform very well. That being said, where I live, I will never not buy another tire that isn't at least 3PMSF rated.

[@johnwrightoverlandingrobotics]

Interesting video!

[@davidsullivan1914]

Did I have something to do with this content? Remember my question? 😅

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@davidsullivan1914 Yes!! I lost your comment!!! But yes I think you asked about KO3S in the snow vs a winter tire ❤️ ✌️ 🙇‍♂️

[@davidsullivan1914]

@ I asked about the 3 peak and how its transpo law in parts of Canada for winter driving on one of your last videos

[@derrickp]

I live in Buffalo NY usually 100+” of snow a year. Outside of car owners very few people get dedicated winter tires. I’ve used Duratracs, KO2s and currently just got Falken At4w they all see to work really well for our conditions

[@TheAndersonOBrien]

Same experience here in New Hampshire. Duratracs are great but in my experience they get noisy after 13k miles. I was just up in Buffalo yesterday with my new KO3’s and they performed extremely well

[@derrickp]

@ yes the noise on Duratracs are horrible

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@derrickp we lived in Newhapshire and Vermont for years and in those states Winter/Snows are a way of life in the winter 😃 ❄️ 🌨 ❄️ 🌨

[@davidsullivan1914]

@@derrickp Canadian gonna chime in here ⛄️ 🇨🇦 I’m going on 8 years with ko2’s now. Jk,4R and Tacoma all perform pretty damn good in snow and slush. We even have those duratrac’s on our work trucks just shy of the arctic circle in Nunavut. Temperature is the biggest factor I have found between these peak rated tires and a real winter tire. Once it dips below -4F/-20C these tires lose traction and breaking ability. Other then those dips in temp I have zero issues driving out on the lake for ice fishing or heading down a woods road that’s packed by snowmobiling.

[@TheAndersonOBrien]

@ Gotta move back to NH! No sales tax is a great thing

[@bk83082]

I've recently had a couple sets of all-seasons without the 3 peak badge that have been excellent in deep snow, up and down hills. I had Conti Extreme Contact high performance all seasons on my FWD hot hatch that got me through multiple blizzards and one actual ice storm, and same for the Goodyear Forterras on my current '04 Trailblazer, which is 4WD and is equipped with the factory locking rear diff.

[@denverred]

My Wild peak triple snow rated tires handled like a champ in mountain blizzard conditions. Hmmm…glad I didn’t go with KO2’s. It could be the tire, or the driver. Driver error ( sucky snow drivers most likely).

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@denverred we had Wildpeak AT3WS on our van (they didn't hold up to daily offroad use) we noticed they had more sipes than a KO2... which might explain your happiness with them... try something like a Blizzak or Ice-X to experience that "night/day" difference (if it's justified by your climate) ✌️

[@mediocreman2]

Not having dedicated snow tires in snowy areas is insane. Driving at Toyota in snowy areas is also insane because they'll rust out.

[@hugolafhugolaf]

No they won't.

[@Holden-McGroin]

I don’t know man, I definitely see the advantages to a dedicated snow tire, but I’ve run nothing but aggressive ATs on my 4x4s my whole life and never had a problem.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@Holden-McGroin NOTHING compares to snow tires in snow... ALL all-terrain tires are essentially BFG K02 clones... a desert racing tire designed to win the Baja 1000... try some genuine winter tires... a FWD Civic with Blizzaks on only the front 2 wheels will dance around any 4x4 a/ts in the snow 😉 ✌️

[@Holden-McGroin]

@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD I just cannot justify the expense and hassle when ATs work so well. I’ve run Nittos, Falkens, Toyos, BFGs, and all of them performed great in the snow. If I can run 70+mph with 3”-4” of snow on the road, I really don’t need anything better.

[@magking1971]

BFGAT suck anyway

[@leetshots]

why would you assume manufacturers would only make the yre 110% better? i have driven on both, the vector 4 easons arent far off the winter tyres i had on my old golf, they'll still keep you moving and stopping. you have to be careful even on snow tyres. not sure why you are obsessed with the 10% point you keep parroting.

[@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD]

@leetshots it's not an assumption, it's a fact. It's a bare minimum standard designed to include A/S and A/T tires in the "winter category"... apparently it's working [on you] 😉 if they wanted to make 3 peak like an actual Blizzak then a Blizzak would've been the reference tire, not a tiger paw

[@bc2109]

I agree 100%. I bought a car that came with “winter tires” 3 peak mountain rating and not the cheap ones. Absolute trash in less than 0.5 cm of snow and rain, sliding all over the place at any speed. First and last 3 peak mountain rating I’ll ever get.