THE THUNDER WARRIOR WORLD EATER! THE RIDDLE OF ENDRYD HAAR!

Hey everyone Rho here! Today we're asking if the Emperor considered alternatives to wiping out the Thunder Warriors? And is the World Eater Endryd Haar evidence?
General Spoiler Warning to begin as today we will be referencing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. So you have been warned!
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[@John-jc3ty]

another alternative could be that the experiment was NOT a success and this dude was the only one that barely made it

[@boohoo4877]

Exactly and he wasn’t perfect so the whole operation was a failure

[@nikik5567]

This is what it sounds like most likely to me. The emperor definitely saw the thunder warriors as tools, but he wasn’t one to toss out useful tools. So he tried to make use of them, but this guy was the only one who came out halfway acceptable. So with that “failure”, the emperor resolved to have the others killed off.

[@jikjikrodriguez]

I like to think that Tyberos the Red Wake of the Carcharodons Astra was another Thunder Warrior upgraded to an Astartes. It would explain Tyberos' great size and strength.

[@nikik5567]

@@jikjikrodriguez but he’d be ancient. And the oldest living space marine is officially stated to be Dante. So that’d go against the canon.

[@jikjikrodriguez]

@nikik5567 The Carcharodons make heavy use of stasis chambers while the travel. Admittedly the older Carcharodons exhibit a gene flaw where they no longer sleep so this aspect is questionable but plausible. Canon in 40K is dynamic and fluid to a degree (I'm guilty of Gate Keeping myself but I have few heretical theories that I like to indulge). For example, it's widely accepted that the Black Templar's Eternal Crusade is the longest continuous Crusade in 40K but Corvus Corax banished his Terran born Astartes (specifically those from the Xeric Tribes, The Deliverers (the portion of the Raven Guard that used Cataphractii Terminator Armor and trained with the Luna Wolves), and most notably the 18th Company (the modern day Ashen Claws) to Nomad Predation Fleets before the Horus Heresy. So one can argue that the Nomad Predation Fleets have been Crusading longer than the Black Templars. Dante would be the oldest acknowledged Astartes but it's reasonable to assume that there could be older Astartes among the so called Black Shields whom have no allegiance to the Imperium. Canonically, Bjorn the Fell Handed would be the longest serving Astartes. In the Carcharodon novels, Te Khurangi is said to be 3 generations removed from the Wandering Ancestors who were the original Raven Guard that left Terra for the Nomad Fleets. Some of the Slumbering Dreadnoughts are said to actually be members of the Wandering Ancestors so they could rival Bjorn in age as well. All in all theory crafting is all conjecture until it's printed somewhere by GW and even then it can be retconned by them on a whim.

[@TalosValcoranOfTheFirstClaw]

Imagine being member of Endryd Haar's Blackshield warband, you casually sits around the campfire and he randomly pulls out "Yeah i fought during Unification Wars" and you're like "You what?"

[@dominusbalial835]

There were quite a few marines that fought during the unification wars, it's not something that's abnormal just typically very rare considering what the astartes had to go up against during the great crusade. Unification Wars veterans had to survive 200+ years of attrition roughly to make it to the Horus Heresy.

[@Leisurelee53]

The riven hound! In saturnine he came very, VERY close to killing abbadon. Crushing his helmet and breaking his skull. Abby even remarking he took several killing stabs and eventually a blade through the brain before finally succumbing.

[@barlotardy]

Haar was stable; Consider: He was one of the first initiates of the XII legion before they were even the War Hounds. That's 200 years more or less before the heresy. In that time, he was made a captain, suggesting that he had his shit together enough to command troops, for that matter troops as notoriously difficult to control as Angron's line. Not to mention, how many Wold Eaters even MAKE IT to 200 years old?? (Yes, yes, Khorne/warp fuckery not withstanding.) Thunder boi was just impossible to kill. It was the news of the heresy that drove him beyond sanity.

[@toddolson4614]

It's comments like this that make me discount Angron as the feel good brotherly love sympathetic primarch. It is well documented the marines take on the personality of their primarch. If Angron was supposed to be the brother of brothers, then before his arrival the war hounds should have that personality. But all indications are the war hounds were aggressive assault troops that were uncontrollable. Therefore the Angron was not going to be some great comforter.

[@barlotardy]

@@toddolson4614 Then again, look at the Blood Angels before the coming of Sanguinius. They weren't much different than the 12th...

[@mzamethodman7134]

@@toddolson4614 its one of the downsides of writing in reverse, GW and BL wrote themselves into a corner regarding angron sadly, although angrons novel did a great job at making him a much better fleshed out character

[@Dimetropteryx]

I think it's possible that the method of updating Thunder Warriors to the Astartes standard had a 99% failure rate and Endryd Haar simply beat the odds.

[@barlotardy]

This.

[@maltheri9833]

I mean Astartes have organ transplans and are smaller and far different. Doesn't even sound right for them to downgrade from a TW how would that work

[@gigglehurtz3167]

@@maltheri9833 they are superior in a lot of ways though, namely lifespan and health. Thunder warriors were prone to short lifespans, and prone to mental health issues.

[@Dimetropteryx]

@@maltheri9833 It's ultimately not much different from Rubicon Primaris.

[@Wimpiethe3]

@@maltheri9833 Who's to say it was that much of a downgrade? Haar seemed more capable than most other astartes. Even if he was nothing special among the thunder warriors rank and file he certainly stood out among the astartes. That it was a downgrade in certain ways seems clear though. But he would not have lived long anyway so because of that there would only have been upsides in the end.

[@barlotardy]

Haar was an absolute wrecking machine throughout the blackshield stories; He deserved a better end than what he got in the siege of Terra novels.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

I disagree. Going out in a blaze of glory against one of the settings most iconic legendary warriors... Seems great to me.

[@mitchellnelson6862]

I can't remember him in the seige, I got all the books. Can you give a reference, please, and thanks

[@standarddeviation7963]

Yeah shame to see him get Warf'd just to show how strong Abbadon/Garro are. Rather see him have an eventual meeting with say... Arik Taranis. We don't see what happens, but afterwards Haar is dead and Arik is able to perfect his process for turning Thunder Warriors into Space Marines.

[@barlotardy]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen I don't disagree with HOW he ended, I just disagree with how it was written. It was almost a blink and you missed it/throw away moment.

[@barlotardy]

@@mitchellnelson6862 It was in Saturnine.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

This is what a legendary Astartes warrior had to say about meeting Haar in mortal combat. This is from Abaddon himself at the Saturnine gambit; "The Riven Hound (Haars nickname) slammed Abaddon into the wall. Bricks shattered. Abaddon felt bones break and organs rupture. Haar was size and brute strength. There was no skill to speak of. Just beautiful fury, like one of Russ’ pack-dogs, or Angron’s thug Khârn. A wall of strength that crushed everything before it. The Blackshield had him by the throat. Haar took six or seven of Abaddon’s kill-thrusts in the belly and chest, and refused to die. Just refused. His strength seemed to grow as the blood wept out of him."

[@JesseVin11]

loved that bit of Saturnine, Such a hardcore passage

[@jamesespinosa690]

RIP Endryd Haar

[@Leofilmperson]

Haar crossed the Rubicon Astartes? Neat!

[@antcow1239]

Who says things went wrong? What if HAAR was so horribly right it was too much

[@docvaliant721]

Autek Mor was probably another thunder warrior turned Astartes. I think the thunder warriors were some of the first Astartes test and success.

[@dingesskahn]

i think he was an exception to the rule. i think the emperor tried to save as many of them as he could, but the rest were so effed up from fighting the horrors of old night that there was no way they could be normal around humanity at large. seems he knew malcador from somewhere so that's probably what's up

[@ComfortsSpecter]

The Plot Thickens This Little Character and Those Like Him Are Really what Makes 40K Great

[@donslayton9258]

It sounds almost like the origin to become a Primaris. What if he , the Emperor, was working on a way to up grade his new Astates warriors but found he didn't have it quite correct when using it on the Thunder Warriors. He did give a formula to Corax and he used it for the Raven Guard and they really were Primaris.

[@trajanfidelis1532]

Hope your mom is doing well! Thanks for the video! Hydra Dominatus!

[@BaldPolishBiotechnol]

For the Emperor! Hydra Dominatus!

[@timothyseger8720]

They made the Minotaurs chapter out of the gene seed made from the world eater thunder warrior. He was an experiment and it was successful. There could be other thunder warrior astartes out there mixes in chapters

[@Duppyman695]

Double Primarch week and one of them is Fulgrim... Perfection!

[@phirhosigma]

Big though for your mother Rho. Thanks for another sweet more about thunders warriors , i enjoyed it so much! I am currently build a scratchbuild conversion of a thunders warriors army . Thanks you!

[@timothyhenegar7484]

If Endryd Haar is a Thunder Warrior being attempted to be indoctrinated as an Astardes. The only reason is maybe both the Emperor and Malcador both felt he was an exception to the greater whole of the stereotypical Thunder Warrior. Perhaps it is Endryd himself that maybe the Emperor saw a potential and wanted to see if in fact a Thunder Warrior could thrive in a legion such as the World Eaters. Perhaps if a Thunder Warrior could be honed, then maybe someone like Endryd might have been the proto candidate to dawn Terminator armor. To go from mere Thunder Warrior, to shock troopers in Terminator armor, or wounded in Dreadnaughts as well. Making them as reformed and refurbished assets to the Astardes legions. 🤨🧐😏

[@o.w.n.1327]

FINALLY A VIDEO ABOUT MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IN WARHAMMER Anyhow I am suprised yo didnt talk about the part in his last audio drama Blackshields Broken Chain when he is being analysed by a sons of horus apothecary the apothecary sees the tatto and Endryd says: We all had one. SOH: All? Endryd: My brothers and I. SOH: Hmm the War Hounds. Endryd: No Apothecary not War Hounds my first brothers. Before there were Hounds or Wolves for that matter. SOH: Hah and what happened to these brothers ? Endryd: I KILLED THEM LIKE I WILL KILL YOU! THEN ENDRYD ENDRYD HAARS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND TAKES THE SHIP ALL BY HIMSELF AND HIS BEST ERUD VAHN

[@barlotardy]

By the Emperor, that book was SO GOOD!

[@neanderthal-]

There will come a "Thunder Warrior"-geneseed chapter at some point. Games Workshop can't say no to the income possibility. Some obscure chapter, lost on some homeworld, hidden somewhere super secret, perhaps lost and reachable because of the Great rift. Thunder Warriors will return!

[@adams5613]

He could have been a conversion attempt or could have been one of the first SM's that was the in-between TW and SM that managed to survive. Doesn't Cawl have a primarus like that? The first to survive but not perfected.

[@oskahuxley6322]

Alpha primus. He's one of my favorites because of how powerful he is. He isnt between an first born and a primaris he's actually more powerful than a base line primaris. He is in perpetual pain though which sucks. He said something like "our father gave us many gifts but me more than most". He's sort of maxed out in all stats and wears bare ceramite.

[@pentacosttb2565]

Personal, I think Harr was the one success, and that other Thunder Warriors becoming Astartes were tried, but failed. I dont even think it's a matter of time and resources. I would guess the instability Harr exhibits was even worse in the others, and unpredictably so on top of that. There are plenty of savage Space Marines, but they're controllable in that savagery, just like Harr. The others likely seemed to work at first, but would snap and go on rampages after a time. After that first test batch, the idea was dropped and the Thunder Warriors culled instead, with Harr being placed with the World Eaters, where his acceptable level of flaw would fit in.

[@Thebighurt61]

I would pay good money for GW to write/fill in the blanks on his origins. So many great potential storylines especially after all the direct hints that he is one. It wouldn’t be so far fetched to think the emperor may have used the thunder warriors against each other and Haar was one of the last ones loyal ones standing. Would be a great explanation for how they were wiped out. Valdors book seemed to indicate that they were mostly killed off by the time the astartes were ready. That would be a tall task for just the custodes.

[@DocWolph]

Haar was not the only example of a converted Thunder Warrior. He was one of the very scant few to survive to the current time. However, the Emperor, constantly charging forward as he did, did not want to take the time to develop the corrective measures needed too make Thunder Warriors into "Thunder Astartes". At most, "Thunder Astartes" were able to live much longer. But their temperaments were not or could not be quelled. Also, being massively PO'd about their numbers being culled so ruthlessly, being betrayed, would have a LOT to do with that. At least, not without the time and resources, sunk into the Great Crusade, needed to do so. Trayzen probably has a couple of "Thunder Astartes" in his collection, I am sure.

[@tomaskops7119]

My idea is, if you have blank new astartes legions, who can train them, maybe Emperor save some thunder wariors for this reason, as dril instruktors for new legion to make them killing kiling machines

[@oatlord]

Well wait.... if the Emperor considered him a failure because he was angry, then what must he thought of Angron and his actions? Did he look at him and think "well.... damn. "

[@maltheri9833]

Why he didn't shoot Angron in the fuckin face is a mystery. Dude just teleported him away and said it's not my problem

[@spasticnutcase]

Is that not obvious based on how he treated him?

[@Alf_Hairy-arse]

​@@maltheri9833He says a broken primarch is still a primarch.

[@nathanial_summers]

Do you think there's the potential that Tyberos the red wake could also be of Thunder warrior heritage, one his stature and physique, two his brutal fighting style, three his lightening claws Hunger and slake being archeotech weapons that came from either before or during the unification wars, four there questionable gene seed and five the caracharodons (unless lore as changed) know for using cryo sleep chambers.

[@nikik5567]

Interesting that it would seem the emperor didn’t want to throw away his thunder warriors outright, but that he simply couldn’t adjust them, and Haar was the only one that was somewhat successful. Kinda makes the thunder warrior’s eradication a bit more tragic too, knowing that the emperor tried to avoid wiping them out entirely.

[@michaelryan6947]

Hope your parent made a full recovery and the situation is better. Many thanks for this one, always been one of my favourite characters.

[@JohnTandy74]

Your the best x hope your family is ok, it’s a difficult time so a big thank you for your continued brilliance

[@basos1888]

as the astartes, also and more, the thunder warriors are tools for the corpse E, he doesnt care for them, he created them, they were usefull for a reason and outlived their usefullness, if one was found worthy to go to the next stage then so be it, but the mass was just discarded

[@BluntsNBolters]

I’ve been waiting years for lorgar week from you rho years so I’m so pumped for it

[@TK199999]

First, Haar was more a War Hound, than a World Eater. Second, he says he got the tattoo along with his brothers when they joined up. Suggesting it might have been a thing young warriors did when they joined the Thunder Warriors. Finally, we have no evidence that Haar was full fledge Thunder Warrior. It would make more sense that he was in the last group to be enhanced into Thunder Warriors in EoM hot house gene labs on Terra near the end of the Unification Wars. But for unknown reasons was instead moved into the proto-Astartes program after what appears to be only first set of Thunder Warrior enhancements. Since we have lore that states some proto-Astartes fought in last major battles of the Unification Wars. Its just been assumed by some that these were proto-Dark Angel First Legion. But we known proto-Salamanders aka the 18th legion then known as the Dragon Warriors fought in final battle against the Ethnarch of the Caucasus. In fact many of Terran born legionnaires of the early Astartes legions during the Great Crusade seem to all share a bloody, brutal and bellicose nature. Not that dissimilar to Haar, though that could be a side effect of their Terran Techno-Barbarian tribes they originated from. Which oh Gods Light and Dark of 40k novels, do we need desperately need a Unification War books series like HH ones.

[@closeriusfildius9634]

Wishing all the best and a fast recovery to your family member pal

[@williamamely7038]

Wish your parent a very speedy recovery, Rho!!

[@alessiogiuffrida6172]

Fascinating character is Arik Taranis; i wonder if he could make it to 41th millenium thanks to his genetic lab and knowledge. If yes a new book where he get his hands on primaris stuff would be so cool 😊

[@SpiggyTech]

best wishes to your folks, rho

[@davidmathieson8661]

There is the process used to enhance those who were too old to become Astartes, eg Luther, Kor Phaeron. Perhaps he was either an attempt to preserve the Thunder Warriors through similar gene tech, or a willing test for that process to see what it would do. Perhaps the process was used on those too old was a lesser version of what the Thunder Warriors were

[@terrysaunders7107]

I would expect Haar was more of a marginal success due to Agrons gene coding trying to amplify his rage that his discipline was acustomed to controlling. The Thunder warriors inbuilt resistance to psyker would have been a coin toss if it would help or hinder their upgrades. Those who could have been modified would have been during the early adoption of the designs of proto legions for command units. The thunder warriors that were purged might be the unviable members. What's not to like about a tech Marine that was once a thunder warrior. Many converts would have blended in nicely in several legions. Many legions had companies that weren't quite right , would be a plausible reason that they were thunder warrior convert's. The space sharks are a great example of what that would have presented as during the great crusade.

[@justonhelf7513]

I wish there was more about the thunder warriors. The idea that they were bigger stronger and more aggressive than astartes makes me want to make a kill-team of them.

[@Interrobang212]

I've heard a few scattered stories of Astartes hunting thunder warriors and taking disproportionate casualties against them.

[@Ancient-wanderer]

I have watched and waited years for a lorgar special, death to the corpse emperor!!!

[@genghiscarnage4015]

I think this is proof positive that there are plenty of Thunder Warriors out there. Enough to make an angry faction. . . . . oooh that's a good idea.

[@daviddunn7784]

Only just heard you say about your family, sorry to hear and hope they are recovering or even recovered with any luck.

[@darrenlloyd8579]

Sorry to hear about your parent in hospital mate, hope they get well soon!

[@reaver5]

Cheers Rho!🎉

[@davidthomas2870]

A thought: we do not know exactly what sort of processes the thunder warriors had generally. What if the improvements the Belasarius Cawl has added to the primaris are in fact adapted improvements originally from thunder warriors, that the emporer tried to implement early on but simply didnt have the time or available attention to dedicate to working out the issues. Additionally, we have seen quite a number of exceptionally old and large astartes before and durring the herresy, with most of them seeming to vanish into the woodwork. What if these potential hybrid warriors, these prototypes, were gathered up by Cawl and the Primaris are a refined derivative of these prototype warriors. If this is correct, perhaps the thunder warriors largely refused to be expiramented upon? We have seen the risks of the crossing of the rubicon primaris-which took Cawl multiple millenia of uninterupted labor to work out and has only JUST NOW finally gotten to get it reliable enough to actually use en mass-and they would have needed to undergo something similar albiet reversed and completely unimproved. Perhaps they, or the emporer, balked at an eye wateringly high failure and decided either that oblivion was preferable to a nearly garanteed horrific death on the operating table. Or perhaps they didn't, and the demise of the thunder warriors in a final battle is another of the emporer's lies, and the majority of them perished ingloriously upon the slab, with the battle of mount Ararat being recorded instead as their final stand. This would make Endrid Haar a sort of Super Astartes, the real end goal of what the empoer intended the astartes to be and what they might yet become. I suppose now it is a race between Belasarius Cawl and Fabious Bile to see who figures out how to do what the emporer couldnt first.

[@Oldb0y4]

Four weak specials? I'd rather have one great special.

[@InvisibleLightRec]

Wolf Lord Rho makes no weak videos. Inconceivable 🦾

[@john7704231139]

I’m sending prayers for your family during these difficult times. Thank you so much for such incredible content!

[@Mantheon]

well, Fulgrim and the Thunder Warriors have something in common : They both can take multiple Astartes at the same time

[@mrspeigel3593]

Hes not a Thunder Warrior, hes a World Eater from their Alpha draw, which is were a select few legionaires were made from each Legion in a master crafted manner vs a mass production manner..these marines are somewhere between a marine and custode , there were five World Eaters only Marr was still alive at the time of the Heresy. This is in the Black Book with the Alpha Legion and there is the suggestion that the Alpha Legion had many many such marines working as the Emperors secret police, this also goes a long way to explain the great degree in size variation amongst them.

[@gawkthimm6030]

what book is that from?

[@mrspeigel3593]

@@gawkthimm6030 The HH black book that the Alpha Legion (III or IV) are in and the one with Maar (ViI)

[@gawkthimm6030]

@@mrspeigel3593 any clue on where one can find and read them?

[@gawkthimm6030]

@@mrspeigel3593 I also cant find any good summaries, excerpt or references to "the Horus Heresy Black books"

[@mrspeigel3593]

@@gawkthimm6030 The big 200$ Horus Heresy books from Forgeworld

[@soccerandtrack10]

"I cant belive the captin remembered my birthday!!!!"

[@marty2129]

I wonder if we are taking the culling of Thunder Warriors for granted a tad bit too much... I wouldn't put it past the Emperor to have those wo have proven loyal and stable to have their bodies, minds and/or memories altered to fit into the early astartes legions or to be used in some other way, and in that case there could have been entire groups of thunder warriors who could have not only survived, but maybe even actively participated in eradicating their less stable or less loyal kin...

[@RBC76]

Great video

[@tebusan6217]

This was a good vid Ro nj

[@nooblegacygaming6021]

Love you rho, thoughts and prayers out to your family mate

[@The0Stroy]

0:33 "We gonna do two." Me: Alpharius?

[@jacobmullen2539]

What if the Minotaurs were made from Haar some how

[@oscarlangton5939]

Maybe the terran born were actually upgraded thunder warriors. And another thought is maybe the loyal traitors were thunder warriors.

[@hucknanjing1083]

You know i don't find the notion that the emperor may have taken a few thunder warriors and tried to mix astarties genetics in with them to be unreasonable or improbable

[@Alexanderofthe9th]

This is why wh40k will always be the goat sci-fi universe for me

[@robinhood6990]

Maybe haar was present at cerberus, either a prisoner of the other thunder warriors and freed by the world eaters, or possibly the world eaters fought him to a standstill and offered him a place in the legion

[@barlotardy]

Interesting idea, but more likely he was one of the last thunder warriors built. He was probably half finished when the Astartes program launched, and was funneled into it just to see if it'd work.

[@docvaliant721]

Haar killed a thunder warrior with his bare hands and snapped the thunder warrior neck. He was a full fledged battle hardened unification war vet.

[@borisdorofeev5602]

The XV-88 is getting too gundamy in the artwork. I still think they look great but they should look more boxy and angular. They keep making them thinner and taller. The squater looking battle suits look more unique and their own thing that's separate from Japanese animation. Also, they should use the MA. K Machinen Krieger the German mecha modeling kits for inspiration. The smaller ones- especially- are like somewhere between power armor and mecha/ mobile suit.

[@DoomStarRequiem]

Wishing your parents a speedy recovery.

[@mikemoore2791]

A legion of TW Astartes would have been incredibly effective.

[@acousticnoisemachine]

Everybody wins! Can't wait for Lorgar week.

[@warwolf88]

cawl might be able to utilize the thunder warrior gene science

[@guillermomelendez7950]

I think the Riven Hound is more of an analog to Calas Typhon, except the expected turning never came and Khorne settled with Kharn.

[@TheKlink]

Another question is when does the psycho-indoctrination end? Does a captain still go through it? Does a chapter master? Are thry allowed to tailor it to their roles within the chapter or depending on how heroic they are?

[@timothylyons5686]

It could be that the original thunder warriors headed to the warp, whether to destroy the traitor legions or to fight from them under a World Eaters banner

[@comradecrawdaddy3343]

I wonder if Tiberous Redwake of the Carchardons is a secret thunder warrior.

[@johnnieschatz693]

Hope your family recovers asap 🙏

[@doubledeputyd4242]

There's no way the Riven Hound is not a Thunder Warrior, At the very least a Thunder Warrior that the Emperor took his time with

[@hykeaux]

Seems to me GW might have missed a chance to shake things up... The space Marines got Primaris. It's believed that chaos will to at some point. Why not give Chaos something else from the Imperiums past, Thunder Warrior. Steer into the Emperor betrayed them and Chaos embraced them and promised to extend their lifespan in exchange for services. Seems appropriate that Chaos would get a larger sledge hammer. And seems to fit Khorne...

[@alastor8091]

A bigger question is how that would even be possible. They dont even change normal dudes into Astartes, so how could one already gene tampered be changed? I dont like exceptions to rules like this.

[@barlotardy]

@@CosmicShinola Well.....Luthor and Kor Pheron were half-astartes at best, and the Space Wolves use older stock than other legions for.....wolf reasons....? But yeah. Like half of Leman's pals died on the table.

[@ragnar3212]

The Emperor could be heartless and merciless smh first he created the thunder warriors knowing they were not perfect and decided to end them instead of fixing them

[@AgeofGuns]

I know there’s not a lot of lore on them yet but I was curious if you’d be doing any videos on the Leagues of Votann? Do you like the space dwarfs?

[@zrrion6the6insect6]

Haar needs a model to be honest

[@peterga3658]

new video nice

[@Scott_the_Celt]

If the Emperor has a tool that still works, even if that tool is a thunder warrior, he'll use it.

[@whysogrim697]

Argel Tal got done dirty 😶

[@jhanna9680]

I'd rather be a Thunder Warrior than an Astartes. Nothing like Fighting for the Emperor and Suddenly Explode Internally due to MASSIVE Tumors! 😆 OH and Psychotic tendencies 😅

[@GentlemanBystander]

There have been numerous indications that there was Big-U and Little-U unity, and while some of the fiction and apocrypha indicates that Terra was completely pacified and unified under the Emperor before he disposed of the Thunder Warriors, there is canonical source material indicating that astartes from several legions *_did_* fight on Terra during the Unification Wars and the Raptor Imperialis and Lightning Bolt badges are acceptable markings and decorations for the war kit of Legionnaire Unification War veterans per the source books. This is just another example of the baked-in unreliable-narrator so often put in display in this property, poor editing, or the left-hand not paying attention to what the right-hand is doing.

[@mattk1764]

maybe they were too powerful... Endryd Haar did kill custodes in 1 v 1 fights. The custodians were the Emperor's bodyguards.. Now if the Emperor truly knew the heresy would happen in one form or another would he have wanted an army of space marines like Haar who were capable of beating custodes like that? Assuming that all Thunder Warriors converted into Astartes would have turned out like Haar ofc, but I have no reason to believe otherwise. I mean the survival rate of Astartes is not exactly 100% either (and they were "new"), so the time factor is no valid explanation for me. I find it more likely the astartified Thunder Warriors were deemed too powerful (or maybe they were all aggressive like Haar. On the topic of his permanent rage.. It has been stated throughout the lore that the gene seed confers some kind of metaphysical connection between astartes and their gene sire. Since Angron had fallen to Chaos I don't find it so far-fetched this still had some effect on loyalist marines from the traitor legions

[@MEchanicAL_LSTAR]

I’m still curious if anyone has done a video about how many astartes that were on terra when the primarchs were in their tubes and were they all made from a gene of the primarch? Were they designated to legion or was it one big group? What was the plan if the primarchs hadn’t been scattered? Would they all have a home fortress on terra?

[@tauras3108]

Surely the Emperor still had thunder warrior samples at his laboratory and could have just modified them

[@danielhouse897]

I like to think Big E did try to save the Thunder warriors but only newer ones were salvagable as they could have bein put in the legions

[@tarhas3504]

Given all the facts, Endryd Haar is Def a thunder warrior

[@beast32678]

They should redcon Endryd Haar fate to keft for dead and actually ended up in a coma and still out their some were 😊

[@FaustianDaydreams]

There was probably a place for the thunder warriors in the great crusade, even if only as shock troops in the worst of situations, but big E doesn’t see his people as much more than tools. And that particular set had outworn its use.

[@jamesespinosa690]

Yeh. It would have been better and easier to just send them on a suicide mission. Let them go out in a blaze of Glory.

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@CosmicShinola The problem is MoM makes him very two dimensional and flat.

[@FaustianDaydreams]

@@CosmicShinola I’ve only read maybe, idk about 60 books of the black library so yeah maybe I don’t have a complete understanding of the Emperor. I don’t really have a better explanation as to why he’d have killed them off. Maybe they really were just too unreliable to be trusted.

[@brandonmyers1400]

I know who Endryd Haar is pretty good audio dramas

[@darthbloodborn]

instead of destroying the thunder warriors i would of put them in stasis and used them in the siege of terra

[@standarddeviation7963]

If Firstborn can go Primaris, then why can't Thunder Warriors go Firstborn? And if anyone can take a square peg and shove it through a round hole, it's gonna be the World Eaters. Surgeon > "Sir the organs don't fit!" World Eaters Apothecary > "MAKE THEM FIT" Theory > The World Eaters were impressed at the Thunder Warriors of the Dait'Tar and decided to try and induct the survivors into their legion.

[@unintentionallydramatic]

"If Firstborn can go Primaris, then why can't Thunder Warriors go Firstborn?" For one because First Born and Primaris are the same general series and Thunder Warriors are something else. We also know that the #1 requirement for Astartes ascension is a vague "clean"-ness of the body and TWs are defined by being all sorts of mutagenic gigaroids pushed into people of various ages. I'm not saying you're wrong. 'm just saying there's some pretty long-established reasons this would be difficult. (Personally I always suspected that TWs are essentially closer to Custodes than Astartes and that that's what ends up being so deadly since the fast version just twists the hell outta you)

[@barlotardy]

Yeahhhhhh.....I'm sticking with the theory that Haar was half finished and got reassigned to the Astartes project at the last minute.

[@justinalexander1416]

Praying for your parent ❤

[@Bumnic788]

What novel was the malcador dialogue in?

[@TheMrphillips8]

Could he have been a failed Custodes?

[@Lazarus1095]

I hope your parent recovers okay.

[@michaeldaly6134]

Hope your Mum gets better soon.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

Are there any T'au novels on Audible?

[@browniechann88blackie55]

The emperor didnt plan to use astartes its what left of his primarchs geneseed his generals to lead the armies of mankind meaning he lost his greatest weapons before the unification of terra he then created the 1st legion which with the custodes wiped the thunder warriors out-of history perhaps they were meant to co exist with primarchs and man before diaster and the warp whisked away his ultimate plan

[@maltheri9833]

He made Astartes before he ever made Primarchs though

[@browniechann88blackie55]

He used the primarch geneseed to make space marines as a back up to losing them

[@browniechann88blackie55]

That's why they inherited their traits instead of the other way around, or else each primarch and legion could be interchangeable

[@waynekozik525]

Or the first primaris marine