THE TRUTH OF ALPHA PRIMUS! WHAT HAS BELISARIUS CAWL CREATED?

[@gigglehurtz3167]

not only is Cawl genius, and has created something amazing, he is also helping build the fire for which he will eventually be burned at the stake in.

[@DD8842]

The man in another age would have been a hero, now a heretic

[@TheTrueMalice]

He invented a new pneumatic shovel to dig his grave with. Genius!

[@jc7997aj]

Plasma. Pretty sure they'll burn him with plasma.

[@mykelengieza7057]

Well put

[@ZombieMonkey7]

I’m begging you GW don’t do it to him, we Admech players only have one character😭

[@cre8ivecat23]

I think Cawl was trying to make something akin to custodes that could be mass produced like space marines, and so combined the best geneseeds from the primarchs into a super space marine prototype. Obviously it didn’t work, so he scaled back to just primaris marines.

[@thomask5434]

I would say it has worked and he got afraid what would happen with an army of him.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@thomask5434 Just like the first steam powered vehicle. They managed to make it run but didn't know how to make it stop.

[@coolnamebro7363]

@@thomask5434 I don't think Cawl is the "My god what have I done!?" type of scientist if I'm being honest.

[@WolframHeart-xp2px]

I like the theory, imagine if one of the lost legions had a primary that was just that? A mass produced lesser version of the customer.

[@thomask5434]

@@coolnamebro7363 No, but he clearly stopped what he was doing. It is clearly stated that he was the prime example. And we know now that the rest was clearly inferior. Otherwise Bile would not be in awe about him or his glands. I guess we have to wait another 5 years to get the answer.

[@TheKalZul]

We do know from The Great Work when Primus goes in front of the dimensional mirror instead of seeing himself we saw 20 grey armoured marines in his stead, so we can fairly safely assume he has all of them moulded into one. It could be he tried to make a Primarch but overstepped into Emperor territory since he didn't have the warp magic side to stabilise Primus.

[@yumanoid5753]

Or, there was one part in all the 20 primarchs, that was the same.. big e

[@iwatchstuffs7933]

yep your are right, The only reason Alpha Primus is a failed work is because his Soul is not of the warp thus its vessel hurts the Soul because its not meant to be in that kind of body only a soul of a primarch or of same caliber can be put in that body. its like using a car battery to power a train it will work for now but eventually it will collapse on its own

[@BanditUshanka]

From what i gathered, Alpha Primus is in pain all the time due to Cawl not being able to properly anchor his soul to his body. That not only ties in with him trying to bring back Quo properly with his original soul, but possibly even dead Primarchs or the Emperor. Cawl is a master of the material realm but when it comes to the warp he is lacking and that's where Bile specializes. Combining their work can bring a big change to the lore.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

I think this is the reason. Cawl has the memory of Qvo downloaded before he's dead but everytime he's cloned he always automatically understand that he's not the original Fredish Qvo. Every instances of Qvo would still consider Cawl their friend but will always emphasize that they are their own men and not Fredish. I think that he started to understand the problem that's why he didn't memory wipe Felix because it is experience that makes people unique and not memory uploading.

[@jezlawrence720]

Combining the work of cawl and bile...? Why yes, inquisitor. This *is* the heresy you're looking for.

[@papiagua]

I was about to say the same thing what was this guy thinking?! @@jezlawrence720

[@dean_l33]

@@jezlawrence720 Serving the Emperor vision require us to work with less than trustworthy individule at times

[@mathieujohnson7090]

After reading the novel, I can at least say that Cawl is a better father that the Emperor ever was

[@minhducnguyen9276]

Emperor:"There's no point talking to them, they won't understand." Cawl:"It's the intention that counts."

[@mrgriff7677]

Left turn theory: Alpha Primus was a design intended to sit on the throne to take the emperor off of it to allow his body to heal. But Cawl in typical fashion got close to cracking it, gave up and went on to his next job on the list. In all probability he's a template. A false Primarch intended to incorporate all the best traits to combine into one geneseed lineage to then produce new astartes with all of these stabilised traits. Cawl did know that the legions were intended to be a complimentary force and wanted to use traitor geneseed to generate new chapters alongside the loyalist ones and he did seek to stabilise the black rage and the spicy-dog curse

[@ChristianR-fx8uy]

I think it means he tried to make his own SM rather than improve on the Emperor's. He finally settled on the current primaris, which are "detuned" versions of Alpha Primus. I think that passage about his burden and pain is more about the fact that he paid for Cawls attempts and feels resentment and obedience simultaneously - the torture implied by it.

[@gwaustin99]

Well its also said to be he's in constant pain as his soul isn't properly linked to his body as cawl isn't experienced with the warp

[@minhducnguyen9276]

​@@gwaustin99 If I was correct he also constantly sees visions that disturb his sleep, something that most chief librarians experience although not as often as Alpha Primus.

[@JamesHodden-rk6ks]

A couple of things occur to me having finished Genefather. Cawl vs the other "scientists of 40k" is a fun concept for a series, I would like to see more, and a Cawl vs Urien Rakarth novel may tie in with some Chris Wraight storylines. And it's interesting how Haley using Cawl as someone who believes in scientific rigour, the Imperial Truth of you like while his other 40k novels are currently interested in the metaphysical aspects of faith in the Emperor.

[@MarkStorey-dc4tm]

Maybe Alpha Primus was intended to sit on the Golden Throne so the Emperor could potentially leave it? Primus wouldn't have to be a primarch to do that but he would certainly need vast psychic powers. Of course, even with them Cawl probably still have over-reached his abilities. (Just realised other posters had the same idea before me.)

[@SuperRavensblood]

Still bears repeating, I was going to suggest this myself till I saw your comment.

[@sliceabletoast]

I had the same thought, especially since Magnus specifically was brought up by Bile

[@KungKras]

But if the emperor leaves the throne he dies?

[@MarkStorey-dc4tm]

The throne seems to be sustaining and hurting the emperor at the same time. In theory Alpha Primus could have taken some of the strain while the emperor only got the benefits. If the emperor just had to focus on healing himself without worrying about the Astronomicon maybe he'd get strong enough to walk amongst galaxy again. Yes this sounds wildly overoptimistic but Cawl is supposed to have over-reached. The Emperor's current condition is clearly a problem and Cawl likes to solve problems.@@KungKras

[@CT68]

@@sliceabletoast Exactly. Emp wanted Magnus to sit on the throne, but Magnus wanted his troops fixed. Primus could be a "Primarch Light" specially-built to man the Throne, so the Emperor has time to re-incarnate. He could even just held as a standby in case the throne fails, which, in some parts of the lore, is an inevitable future.

[@rankcolour8780]

Primus himself tells us he is a blend of as many geneseeds of different chapters as Cawl dared to put in him and it seemed to be too much for him. He isn't a Primarch they are leagues ahead of what he is before you even take their warp juiced souls into account but you can imagine how the gifts of all the various geneseeds stuffed into him play into each other making him more than the sum of all his space marine parts. If Primaris are Space Marines + then Primus is Space Marines ++ although a faulty one.

[@nuke7777]

Im put my gene seed in him to

[@docvaliant721]

In the great work it’s clear he is a hybrid of all 2o primarchs.

[@rankcolour8780]

@@docvaliant721 In Avenging Son he makes it clear that: "To each of the sons of those sons, a portion of those gifts were passed on in turn. I have several of these gifts"" In the Great Work he says "‘The Emperor gave the Space Marines many gifts..I was given more than most." It's spelled out in two books he's a blend of Space marines not Primarchs. He's not even close to a Primarch nevermind a blend of them.

[@docvaliant721]

@@rankcolour8780 In the scene that they see a different timeline in the place of primus was 20 space marines.

[@rankcolour8780]

@@docvaliant721 All that means is in a different timeline Cawl made bodyguards from all 20 legions we know whatever he tried to do in the actual timeline failed. In the vision they aren't even special marines, just 20 normal grey armoured marines. I swear people don't read the actual lore.

[@KarrasATX]

You don't think Cawl putting in parts of all chapters isn't his attempt to try and recreate an "Emperor"?

[@quitamgogh]

He is all the king’s horses and all the king’s men.

[@Hammerheadcruiser]

That is exactly what I'm thinking. The primarchs are pieces of the Emperor, so clearly if you put those pieces back together you would get an Emperor. What else but that level of arrogance would shock Mr "I clone primarchs on the regular"?

[@MrDMSir]

Agree

[@cegesh1459]

Yep, indeed

[@SolarCasper]

What would he do about the 2 missing chapters which no one is allowed to talk about? That would have to become part of the lore so that we finally get a proper explanation of "WHY?" we are not allowed to talk about them in the lore (I don't mean the table top-paint your own chapter)

[@RafaelHyginoMeggiolaro]

I was reading the old Inquisitor game the other day and there was a faction of the inquisition trying to create a vessel for the emperor soul. So when I red the Genefather passage, I felt that alpha primus could be a reverse engineering trying to reproduce the emperor's gene and maybe could work as a vessel to His soul hahaha

[@Nemusplanta]

amalgamation of many aspects of different primarchs...sound alot like the emperor,it coud all so explain primuses suffering if hes having a psychic connection to the emperor and sensensing part of the suffering emperor is going trough

[@Feck-de-stans]

yep starchild cough cough 😅

[@DualEquinox]

My leading tinfoil hat theory is that what took Bile aback wasn't that Cawl tried to make a homebrew Primarch rather it is that Cawl bootlegged the Grey Knight's method of artificially making a Blank to make the first viable Blank/Psyker Hybrid, albeit one only barely held together by a dash of Vulkan's Perpetual Genes. Something that can wield the warp but is simultaneously immune to Chaos' influence? That is something that would get Bile's attention I think. It would also explain the reason Primus is constantly in pain (his Blank side is constantly annihilating the Psyker part of his soul, the damage being healed at a similar rate by his Vulkan-sourced Perpetual Genes). This constant annihilation and regeneration of the soul is also why it is "loose" in Primus' body.

[@mohamaddelkhah]

Perhaps he tried to mimic "the shamans sacrificial fusion" by merging different geneseeds.

[@caboose9843]

would cawl know about the emperor's true origins though? not a 40k turbo nerd (though id like to be) so theres still tons i dont know

[@Spacefrisian]

I wonder if its more like Cawl trying to create his own Custodes.

[@jezlawrence720]

If guilliman asked for a better space marine and you've got marines, custodes and primarchs as your model, it would make more sense that he was trying to work out how to mass produce something closer to custodes. That would still be attempting to replicate the emperor's work.

[@vargaslc2]

When he mentioned the emperor I thought Crawl's version of a custodes.

[@danielcampbell9457]

the more i find out about AP the more i start to think that cawl tried to re-create the emporer by putting all 20 types of geneseed back together in one being.

[@vodamiinurl1337]

That would explain the constant agony...

[@tankster99]

I think Cawl tried creating a primarch but ended up with something more like a custodies.

[@pyerack]

Protostodies

[@TheRealFrambo]

Or maybe a Thunder Warrior?

[@mitchjames9350]

A Thunder Warrior without the flaws would cut through chaos, Orks and Tyranids.

[@Kakashi20xd6]

Or he tried to make something close to a psyker custodes suitable for “mass production”.

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

Something like a primarch - lite version with a custodies twist?

[@paulmusgrave2243]

I think it’s probably something more simple.Like Cawl trying to resurrect the thunder warriors.Experimenting with different geneseeds until one specimen lived.

[@Shire_Sam]

Two things: 1, Alpha Primus sounds like the 1st stable version of the Primaris Marines, he may have then gone on to further develop and refine the overall design amd process to make them more viable. AP could technically have other implants that were not used in the standard revision of primeris marines. Caul is a genius, but I very much doubt that he got it right the very 1st time. 2, Just an observation. So Caul had use/access to half of the technology that created the Primarchs, was this the same half of the technology that was given to Corvis when he wanted to rebuild his chapter after the drop site massacre? Or was it the other half? Anyone please enlighten me.

[@Iaotle]

1. His name is Cawl 2. The other half of the primarch gland was destroyed, only one half currently exists, though Cawl did imply he would be working on rediscovering it.

[@davidthomas2870]

We know that Fabius has genetic samples from multiple primarchs already, so with Primus' gene seed who knows what he might get up to

[@BearCavalryWasTaken]

I think it be cool if it was revealed that Primus had the body of a primarch, like the features of one, but wasn’t able to get the soul of a primarch, as a result he isn’t on the same level of a primarch but above a space marine

[@edwells4769]

His current soul is barely attached isn't it?

[@christiancowles9436]

Also of note, during the fight with Primus, genetic material from Bile's best new (wo)man would have been left for Cawl to scavenge. So it was really a trade with each of them getting the materials to recreate the others' best creations. I am interested in seeing chaos primasus and loyalist newmen.

[@CountDVB]

I figured Alpha Primus was meant to be his attempt at a Custodian, at least before learning of the inclusion of Magnus’ DNA. But imagine if Cawl got his hands on Primarch Zero: The Angel.

[@victorchavis9035]

Mad Respect for your love to the lore

[@NielsMulvad]

Eh if Cawl's DNA is in Alpha Primus, then it could have been an attempt to create a new better stronger body for himself. Ridding himself of the need to wipe himself of memories and raising himself closer to the God emperor.

[@mrogface]

Maybe the Emperor made his 'current' body in a similar way

[@NielsMulvad]

@@mrogface It 100% depends on how his story is going to move forward. A purist that claims he is not trying to ascend would say that is hogwash. Cawl on the other hand we know dabbles with clones and mind wipe.

[@Salmon_Rush_Die]

"ridding himself of the need to wipe himself" It was always optional.

[@ralyks2350]

Oooo that's a great theory

[@NielsMulvad]

@@ralyks2350 The one I or Salmon wrote? To me it makes sense, that a character that is chasing immortal life and knowledge would attempt to elevate themselves .

[@DoctorCataclysm]

I think Alpha Primus is a gestalt Space Marine that has aspects of every Legion.

[@HappyBirthday0707]

This. I think that even Cawl would understand that the creation of a primarch would be beyond him. We know that to create a primarch, it’s not just a case of genecraft. It’s much more … occult. And Cawl isn’t a being of the warp. What’s the next most likely outcome? That Cawl made an effort to create the greatest and most perfect space marine. Combining the geneseed of multiple legions. Primus is the outcome.

[@FenrirStriker]

just throwing the idea out here. since we know primus is extremely potent as a psyker and could have more then just magnus geneseed... perhaps a failed cloned of the emperor or a battery attempt for the golden throne ?

[@timothyc.4668]

Ok hear me out, Alpha is the First Begining. He has many gene-seeds contained in him but is shackled by one man's will. Who else contains all the gene-seed under on man's will? What if Cawl tried in desperation to save everything by backwards engineering a new Emperor.

[@maxstr]

My bet is that Primus is actually an AI, or has something within him from the Men of Iron. Cawl is obviously creating AI with Cawl Inferior, and the far more advanced Friedisch. Even Guiliman directly asked him if Cawl Inferior is a thinking machine. There is a short story called "Ancient History" in the "Let the Galaxy Burn" collection where a human is being controlled by an true AI from the Dark Age. So it's certainly possible Cawl has found one

[@pablonunalvares5391]

My bet is: Cawl was trying to see how many different geneseeds he could put into chimeric geneseeds and went overboard with Alpha Primus. But he ended up being super powerful but feels like shit and wants to die and end the pain. So he just tried mixing and matching in lower scales to make things interesting...

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

I’m just gonna say space sharks chapter… clearly, four different G lines, rolled into one…

[@displeasedsociopath5939]

I speculate that Cawl's creation of Alpha Primus is an attempt to create someone to light the Astranomicon once Cawl discovers a way to restore the Omnissiah. It's just the sort of thing he would do. His work on resurrecting Freedish is probably his tinkering to work on how to restore the Emperor. Cawl never does anything for just one reason.

[@kensmith4937]

With Bile taking Primus's geneseed, I am thinking we are probably going to have Primaris Chaos Astartes soon, especially since Abbadon is breathing down his neck so hard.

[@sbeaber]

God, I hope not. They should be separate. Not space Marines + chaos. I know. I know they're called Chaos Space Marines but after 10k years they should be distinct.

[@kensmith4937]

@@sbeaber I agree with you 100% but think of the money GW can make by selling us new Primaris Chaos Space Marines!

[@CrimsonKamina]

Don’t forget Abbidon also captured Epimetheus for his gene seed, so could see chaos equivalent to primaris grey knights

[@licensed_beheader]

​@@CrimsonKaminaI think abbadon wants to use the greyknight geneseed to inhibit the slow chaos corruption that is slowly eating at him.

[@leandrocastello309]

​@@licensed_beheaderthats a cool AF plotline,but if it was hinted in the books it wold be everywhere on youtube. Is it just your headcanon?

[@Joebanana6969]

I love the way you talk and the way you sound, I get so absorbed to the story

[@Ridgelinehunter007]

Glad to see this discussed finally

[@Cr1zza]

First of all, the Sangrpimus Portum was never used after the creation of the Primarchs. We know that Corax acquired something along the lines of it, but not the Sangprimus Portum itself. And given the backleash GW faced when introducing the Primaris, simply using it to make the whole Chaos Marine range just bigger would also generate protest... Most likely Bile will get new toys on paper, but we will not see them on the table or Cawl will reaquire it in a follow on book, after running to Bobby G.

[@tetrarch_1347]

Would have loved to see an Admec only Alpha Primus model in the range

[@LeónSantiaguino]

Actually a good idea

[@thebiggestbaz]

I made a fake one to walk around with Cawl and just tell my op to ignore him in game haha

[@Iaotle]

​@@thebiggestbazvery cool

[@jaegerbomb269]

I think this opens the doors to a lot of things. Like the dead Primarchs coming back.

[@ThunderBirb]

I mean Fabius Bile already proved it was possible to bring a Primarch back with a perfect clone for example, clone Horus (now dead again) and clone Fulgrim who is in Tryzans collection

[@hadrian2505]

Why would anyone want that?

[@ThunderBirb]

@@hadrian2505 HORUS HERESY 2.O

[@LuckySecond]

@@hadrian2505 profits. The lore exists strictly to get you to a checkout counter.

[@hadrian2505]

I just hate it how they can't leave any people dead in meadia these days

[@Divadtube]

IF the Emperor gave all his sons a part of himself, what do you get putting all the parts back together? No wonder Bile was "taken aback" by Cawl. Cawl is the definition of "treading lightly where gods dare tread".

[@badhoplite7299]

i dont think Biles gonna give Abbadon the Primus gene seed at all or at least not all of it. He told his Dark Mechanicum ally that he will give the Warmaster "what he wants and no more" and also when he confronted Cawl about his Plans for Primus, he stated that his 'New Men' Will need a powerful king to lead them.

[@thisistherevolt]

What if the geneseed is a combo of all the Primarchs, the Emperor, and...... Aeldari? That would certainly give Bile pause.

[@Iaotle]

Xeno origins definitely sound like a cool theory

[@willemtrialmont4241]

Could Primus be the clone of the Emperor instead of a new Primarch. Trying to stitch the original from desperate parts of the Emperor spread across all of that geneseed left over from the Primarch project.

[@stanislous137]

What if Cawl tried to reuse geneseed from the 2 missing Primarchs and perhaps Warp assistance, too?

[@williamhanna9718]

I think the lack of warp assistance is why Primus is so flawed, and always in pain.

[@browniechann88blackie55]

The missing primarchs I believe is easy to explain the emperor locked away the proto primarch he inherited the emperors ceasing need to eliminate chaos corruption something that was against his plan he would of killed all the other primarchs to prevent them from falling prey to chaos before conquering the galaxy he was to powerful for his own good he is eventually lost to the imperium never to spoken of again in New lore its stayed by alpharius he was found 1st on terra he's even mentioned in lore as approaching the lion with a battle strategy but eljohnson doesn't trust him and his legion who at this point are too small omegon was the last to be found by horus who is shocked at finding a lost brother returns him to terra the emperor see his and alpha shared soul instead of making two the same legions he allows them to act in unison as the alpha legion just suddenly appeared out of no where with a full legion which everyone thought was strange with both alpharius and omegon they where able to mass produce geneseed , horus was able to remember their names to which malcador gave him a stroke for he mentioned 5 words mal and al meaning either malice or malal

[@browniechann88blackie55]

He remembered the lost primarch name and he was going to spill the beans on the twins being alpharius and omegon this went against the idea that twins would both fall to chaos when alpharius is killed omegon just assumes his name seeing as one is killed by dorn and the other by guilliman there is no longer a 20th legion primarch they operate as separate warbands the influx of recruits in the ultra marines and imperial fist is just a coincidence

[@radagastthedank8902]

What if Cawl was trying to make a new body for the emperor. If the gene gifts of each of the primarchs came from the emperor then putting 20 different geneseeds into one being may be on its way to being a suitable living vessel to put the emperors conscious into

[@lumomagus]

Oh he’s an attempt at a Primaris Grey Knight, and that’s how GW will introduce a new line of models for them

[@Cozworth1]

Could be a possibility that the primarch soul anchored to him is a piece of magnus. Would make sense with him saying he has magnus's genes

[@rajukoley9249]

It says he has magnus's genes so I doubt he has a magnus soul shard.

[@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ1248]

You could see why primus could've been a failed primarch attempt, since he's sensitive to the warp.

[@jesterprince4949]

Maybe he has multiple primarchs gene seed within him.... because he is a direct genetic "child" of the Emperor and Cawl. Not a clone, or a splicing of the Primarch gene seed. He is just the Emperors child.

[@vontheunknown7982]

Did he just say Magnus the red geneseed is inside of Primus?! Holy s***, Can you believe this?! 8:55

[@remygallardo7364]

I think that the thing being overlooked is Cawl's not hesitant to mess with abominable intelligence. As a true agent of the Mechanicus whose ultimate goal is knowledge I think he wanted to create what he considered to be the perfect humanoid which to him definitely included recombining the various gene seeds to create a powerful organic body but also the mind and knowledge of the entirety of the Mechanicus. I think Alpha Primus is at least partially an AI, maybe gated and deactivated until Cawl chooses to unleash it/take over Alpha Primus. Primus made it quite clear he knows and sees more than any should and that he can see Cawl's failures and limitations. He claims to know better than Cawl and that to me screams Men of Iron. The Cawl Inferior and other machinations Cawl uses to store information definitely incorporate organic components but honestly we can't be certain that those aren't just for show to disguise actual abominable intelligence.

[@user-zp4ge3yp2o]

I'd say this guy should probably turn his hand to designing space ships, since they would probably be more useful than a super soldier that is even more super than the super soldiers you already have access to.

[@Venatis]

Primus kept having visions of an attack and warned Cawl akin to how Sanguinius has visions and tried to warn the emperor While visions are not known only from Sanguinius (many others have it too) that’s what I took from it. And I wouldn’t blame Cawl too if he tried to cram the best primarch genes into his son: Magnus & Sanguinius? That alone is already one hell of a genepool

[@seanbrazell7095]

I think Primus was designed to be able to replace the emperor on the golden throne. Magnus DNA? Check. Constant pain tolerance? Check. Or maybe he is LITTERALY Alpharius, or built upon the body of alpharius recovered after Dorn killed him. There are two alpha legion primarchs (or were anyway), hence the designator "PRIMUS"

[@gareth0412]

Primus is meant to replace the emperor on the golden throne. That's his ultimate destiny I think. I thought it was obvious, when you add it all together. He's a clone of the emperor himself... Consider the fact that the emperor is the ultimate primogenitor for all transhumans of the Imperium. Cawl has his raw DNA stored. For me biles reaction cemented my theory. Not much can excite Fabius Bile or indeed give him pause and shock him. He has all the emperors abilities but without the foundations that made the emperor so stable. Most importantly his Farsight abilities. He can handle them with little struggle, unlike sanguinius and Cruze who struggled immensely.

[@levimaccabeeus1235]

This was always my theory too. I believed that Fabius got excited because he realized that alpha primus may be the final piece he needs to complete his emperor cloning project

[@sparkeykills1]

I don't think he's a clone of the emperor though I do see the merit in the theory, just finished the book today, and what I got from the way fabius reacted was almost like a kinship, remember that fabius bile has already created a "perfect" primarch clone fulgrim in the second story in his series. The reaction I got from fabius when he saw what alpha Primus was he almost felt a kinship with cawl. I think he tried to create a clone of Magnus. The way he talks about the warp and the dreams that he has. He talks about "feeling" people in the warp the same way that Magnus and lorgar talked about during the heresy in Betrayer and the thousand sons book.

[@gareth0412]

@@sparkeykills1 Bile referred to Primus as something very special indeed. In Primogenitor, Bile isn't even proud of himself or even considers the Fulgrim clone as his greatest work. He gives it to The infinite after all. If primus was another Primarch clone I don't think he'd be as excited as he was. Ultimately knowing Cawl and his overconfidence, I don't think he could resist trying to clone the emperor if he had the opportunity. Everything from the Bile and cawl series tells me that this is an ultimate ending to Cawls story. If it is Magnus then I would be underwhelmed.

[@skaut_games7644]

I started reading great work yesterday and boom I see you making episode on thing in Curius about

[@fernandopires135]

I think primus is a sad failed attempt at cloning the emperor The multi-gene is not the goal, its a consequence of not having access to the emperors dna... Cawl tried to recreate Big E by combining the genes of his sons

[@Derpzila]

recon primus might be an attempt at a replacement big E ?

[@huwtindall7096]

At the end of the book Cawl also says his own genes are in Primus; that's why he treats him like a son. It's not just asartes genes in there.

[@Sp3rmWizrd]

So are fabius' new men that powerful?

[@dingesskahn]

from Lexicanium, "A sub-type of New Men are Gland Hounds. These are made by partial gene-seed implantation. Gland Hounds are designed to hunt Space Marines in packs and retrieve their gene-seed. They are loyal to Bile on a genetic level and worship him as a quasi-god."

[@Akabans999]

Personaly I think Cawl was trying to make Emperor a new beter body, thats why he still has that device. Wouldnt be suprised if he still is trying to do it and that Primaris and Alpha Primus are side venefits of that projeckt.

[@tt3p9]

That's crazy there's so few likes on this video! It's great and very entertaining.

[@vascoaching8590]

Either Fabius wants to enhance his new men with psychic ability or wants to help the thousand sons reverse their curse and own him BIG time. I highy dooubt he wants to do Abaddon any favors.

[@racspartan1]

👍 Interesting. I had not known of this character until now.

[@motherreaper7287]

Put all 20 geneseed lineages together you probably get an emperor clone, food for thought.

[@alexandreouimet5102]

I’ma go out on a limb here and say something outlandish but, hear me out: the Emperor gave genetic material to create the Primarchs. Cawl is not trying to re-create the Primarchs…He’s trying to re-create the Emperor

[@dean_l33]

Then what? You got a body of the emperor but not his soul unless somehow you managed to stuff the star child into it

[@alexandreouimet5102]

@@dean_l33 Hey ! I said it was outlandish 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@100thmonkey]

is his appearance described? What color is his armour? face, helmet? What weapons, etc...?

[@dontgetmarried]

Cawl is the definition of "what has SCIENCE DOOOOONE?!"

[@Liberty-Jamie]

So many interesting details in this one. It's highly worth getting. It's also a good story too.

[@LuoSon312_G8]

they trying to create a mini Emperor!?

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Has he created an Autobot? That’s an ambitious crossover…

[@Niteshiftmonkey]

I genuinely wonder given the way Cawl has extended his own life if he using Primus as a potential vessel to hold his consciousness should he perish. The Mind of Genius within the body or a Grey Knight / Custodes. A body which couldn’t be corrupted by Chaos and his soul could t be claimed upon his death…

[@davidtodd2104]

I always wondered why a Custodes couldn’t be enhanced further with Space Marine gene seed and extra organs. They are basically scaled up humans.

[@aquavitae3824]

I guess Geneseed is designed for standard human genome.

[@jasutinborchert4418]

Aren’t custodes already genetically engineered to perfection?

[@aquavitae3824]

@@jasutinborchert4418 what's wrong with a few fangs or the flesh-change!? 🤔😄

[@ericmacrae6871]

​@@jasutinborchert4418yes they are

[@perteraboofolympus150]

Cawl was actually given the job to make the primaris by Jimmy Space himself. Big E could see the future and knew he needed a upgrade to the space marines in the event one of the possible futures came to pass, so he got in contact with several of the different original owners of the minds shackled to Cawl, and gave coded orders to him to continue his work. Cawl was kidnapping kids and subjecting them to the creation of the primarus 10000 years before the opening of the great rift so M31 at the earliest and m32 at the latest. The minds contacted by Big E however were comprised of individuals 1000s of years previous to that too.

[@shorney11]

I think his soul itself is a shard of Magnus anchored to his body, the pain is it pulling away towards its greater whole. This may explain his physic potential.

[@Nykona-Sharrowkyn]

Is it possible that Alpha Primus also has DNA from the expunged Primarchs?

[@danielmartin531]

Would explain his unusual ability to completely hide his psychic presence from even librarians.

[@RogueSanta]

Fabius is seething somewhere in the warp

[@falsehero2001]

What if Alpha Primus is literally Cawl's son? As in he used his own child (or created a clone) as the baseline human to create Alpha.

[@Archon3960]

Honestly, it's no wonder Cawl had his memory mysteriously wiped if he experienced with the Lost Legions' Geneseed. ;/

[@platexproductions]

What if Alpha Primus was made by Caul to replace the Emperor on the Golden Throne, as Magnus was?

[@ViewTube_Dan]

My guess is Alpha Primus is a watered down Primarch without whatever stuff the emperor took out the warp to make his Primarchs.

[@mduckernz]

IMO he has all or most of the genetic gifts of the primarchs, but does not have the augmented soul to match. I can’t see Cawl doing the necessary warp craft to do that, or even wanting to. However, that will still result in a very powerful being. Of particular note is Primus’ reflections on him having a “misaligned” soul. This suggests to me that he is making use of several talents at once that aren’t very compatible, but doesn’t know how to not make use of them simultaneously or even at all, because he doesn’t know what he is. If he was told… could he perhaps reduce the level of suffering he experiences, as well as become more powerful? And how many of his abilities could he perhaps make use of at one time? Edit: as for Bile, I think he unexpectedly found someone who really did try to go as far as himself in some respects - willing to go as far as he could, transgressing others in the process. He has likely found that the gene seed taken from Primus will allow him to make Primaris of EVERY line. Pretty massive fait accomplit with respect to what Abaddon was constantly hassling him for… makes Bile extremely powerful in what he can demand for his services.

[@ianpayad4595]

I agree with your comment about cawls lack of extensive knowledge about the warp that the emperor had I could imagine he only had access to the more technological and genetic side of the data of space marine creation but not the more warp related information that the emperor knows

[@Yandarval]

How about Alpha be an attempt at Valdore, using Primarch parts as well. He could also be a more outlandish attempt at creating a body for Big E.

[@Dobbinator817]

He could have attempted to make anything from new vessel for the emperor, a new type of perpetual or a mass production demi primarch designed to kill traitor primarchs

[@gv4253]

What if Alpha is a true clone or true son of the emperor

[@Feck-de-stans]

starchild cough cough 😅

[@jjsheets330]

Cawl made a proto-emperor. He had the gene seed of all 20 primarchs and what would be the greatest creation you could ever make, THE EMPEROR. For a person in Bile who can make a primarch easily to be impressed it has to be even greater than that. Belisarius Cawl made his own Emperor into his son. The man’s a genius!!!!!!!

[@danielmeyers3002]

I forgot where I heard this, but the Primarchs represent portions of the Emperor, his strengths and weaknesses. What if Alpha Primus is as close to a being genetically endowed as the Emperor as Cawl dared to make?

[@michaelhowell2326]

During the Great Crusade the Thousand Sons were the considered the best psykers, but was every TS psyker better than any of the Librarians of other legions?

[@michaelhowell2326]

Maybe a Grey Knights/Custodes plus some others?

[@kb9oak749]

The purpose of Primus is to generate more truckloads of cash for GW.

[@RovalisGTO]

I think Belisarius went further than the Emperor in trying to refine the particular genomes of the different Primarchs and then spliced them together. The emperor relied mostly on his absurdly powerful genetics and then split that into the Primarchs, and then left it at that. Belisarius probably went further and refined those individual traits and smashed them all together within Alpha Primus. I could see Magnus, Perturabo, Jaghatai, and Vulkan perhaps. Maybe others.

[@dungeonpastor8295]

Primus as Grey knight primarch? Had the big e’s geneseed and that’s why he has magnus’? Could work considering Janus; maybe even his clone spiced up with other prinarch’s genes.

[@Kushfohead45]

Do you think that maybe he’s using gene seed from the 2nd and the 11th?

[@iatebambismom]

A stabilised 'primarch' from the Thunder warrior line?

[@WilliamDeemer]

Do we know how tall this creation is? Is it bigger than a space marine or a Primeras? Is it the size of a custodian is or a Primarch

[@meateaw]

I wonder if he was trying to recreate a primarch specifically Magnus, to take the place of the emperor on the golden throne.

[@joechurchill6945]

Yes all 20 legions gene lines were in the sangprimus portum, there's one thing that's clear from this tho magnus the red gene seed can be used to a point that doesn't involve the flesh change or the rubric of ahriman... blood ravens anyone

[@alexbramhill5737]

Just a noob question could he be template for making a new host body for the big E himself ??

[@15DEAN1995]

He has gene seed and that to me says he can't be an attempt at a primarch. I have never heard of a primarchs having gene seed because they do not need implants. My assumption is primus was a test bed for all of the gene seed cawl created. I could imagine him going through and implanting all of the gene seed for say the 1st legion, then removing it and placing in the 2nd or 3rd legion then continuing until he got to the 20th legion. All of these conflicting attributes inside him I could see causing the pain he described. Imagine having the psyker talent of magnus combined with the anti psyker nature of mortarion or russ.

[@MichaelWilson-dm4gz]

Alpha Primus might be more along the lines of the Emperor?