The 'Toons That Made 'Tech - Fang of the Sun DOUGRAM | A Short

[@countphil1]

This is a really good video, I look forward to more videos on the inspirations for battletech.

[@JAllenHammer]

They can take my Unseen from my cold dead hands.

[@GojiKaichou]

Dougram was a better Battletech cartoon than what Fox Kids came up with. If anyone says different, they can fight me.

[@noodles2459]

I think both have their merits, but if Dougram would have had an american adaptation via fasa it would have been an amazing cartoon to advertise battletech. But It was quite violent for it's era compared to macross.

[@BattleBound]

When I do a vid on the Battletech cartoon, I'm real interested to hear what you say lol 😆

[@cmdrhatchy9611]

Yeah! Keep up these history lessons! There is a lot of it.

[@BattleBound]

Writing Crusher Joe now. 😊

[@Metoollhead]

Dougram kicked ass. I really loved just how down-to-earth it all felt: both the characters and the conflict they partook in. Some of the plot armor on the Dougram mech itself was grating at times, and it did grow a bit repetitive towards the ending, but that wasn't enough to harm the show. Great video!

[@GoastLincoln]

Fight! Dougram to save Independency of the Deloyer.

[@BattleBound]

Saraba, yasashiki hibi yo... Taiyō no kiba, Dougram!

[@heymay724]

Not even justice.. I want too, Get Troof!

[@walt_man]

Still have to restart Dougram from Episode 18. The shows very deep and at times tragic.

[@BattleBound]

It is, but honestly that's what makes it worth watching to me. I love seeing the stories that folks choose to tell through the vehicle of animation or comics and sequential art, because it's a medium that is typically written off as "for kids". So when you have a story arc like Dougram play out, to me it really is a celebration of the medium when viewers care so much about the characters and are so connected with the story.

[@Brofisticus]

Dougram is one of the few anime out there that managed to hold my interest. A story with depth, good writing, developing characters, and mechs that at least occasionally respect things like logistics, rather than being powered by magical bullshit.

[@BattleBound]

Yeah! Like, one of the things I loved so much about the 'mechs was that they were not portrayed as these self sufficient and self sustaining single-personnel carriers that could operate indefinitely without attention for an elongated period of time. Every time the feddies sent a combat armor detachment out, the guerillas knew there would be a supply and logistics convoy nearby, because they couldn't run independently without it.

[@03dashk64]

That’s also why I like 86 and Yakitori. They have similar themes and realism.

[@raithnor6007]

I always thought it was a shame that FASA couldn't have been able to collaborate more with the Dougram IP owners. It might have given the company more legal muscle when the unseen IP issue hit. (Only losing access to the Macross mecha instead of all of it.) One rule that would have been interesting the translate from Dogram to Battletech would be the ability to airlift Mechs with Helicopters. Although the Dougram mecha weighs at most 35-40 tons. Also, love how the Earth Federation helmets were swiped for the Cappellan uniform.

[@BattleBound]

Great eye! And yes, I feel like if there was anyone to do that with, it would've been Sunrise. Next week we actually have a copy of Battle of Stanrey in the studio. Wait'll you see how similar that is to early Battletech.

[@noodles2459]

Those early days of 80s anime culture were tough for companies interacting with japan. I honestly wonder WHO at sunrise gave tech permission to use the designs. It's quite interesting.

[@raithnor6007]

@@noodles2459 It was a model company called "Twentith Century Imports"/Revell, from what I understand. The problem was TCI didn't actually have the licensing rights.

[@Cousin_Uli]

The Starblazers/Yamato people just agreed to put two logo's on all their merch and sell it as both ip's. Not sure how viable that is for the legal rat king that is Btech though.

[@juamu1132]

@@noodles2459 by that time the liscence was with bandai. sunrise is just a subsidiary of bandai.

[@Wildcat144]

Ahh Dougram, Macross, Gundam. All anime I take inspiration from for my own art style. Gods I love the old unseens

[@BattleBound]

I'll never give 'em up!!!

[@DaMasterPilot]

The artist for the original gundam worked on this too. The old design for the wolverine is just like the zaku. The dougram is even the GM cannon.

[@Elonyx.studios]

This was exactly the kind of show I've been looking for! Talking about the inspirations behind this game!

[@BattleBound]

Wait'll you see the Battle of Stanrey set next week. 🥰

[@noodles2459]

I do adore dougrams realism. I'd love to see how crusher joe influnced tech as it's more "STAR WARS" then anything. Dougram and Votoms are the Hardest sci-fi we ever got out of sunrise. Gundam has been hard sci-fi but theres still a bit of space magic to the mecha. Xabungle has some cool more realistic mecha too. Full metal panic and Gasaraki. Oh and the Recent OBSELETE series is very battletech.

[@GojiKaichou]

Locust, Galleon, and Leopard-B dropship was art from Crusher Joe. Locust was the Ostall mech in the movie, the Crushers' ship "Minerva" was the Leopard-B, and the Galleon Tank in the CJ OVAs was... the Galleon in BT.

[@GojiKaichou]

Heavy Metal L-Gaim was a very "Battletech" series, as was Blue Comet SPT Layzner. Some might cite Armored Trooper VOTOMS, its side story Armor Hunter Mellowlink, or Metal Skin Panic MADOX-01 as being examples as well, but the largest powered armor in those series (they were not TRUE mechs, they were either referred to as powered armors or combat armors) were just a hair bigger than a clanner elemental suit. So they were BT in that aspect.

[@GojiKaichou]

Xabungle was... at heart a combiner type of show, or at least more like Transformers for its time. Yes, there were some aspects where the episodes took a turn into pretty decent sci-fi, but the mech design in that show... Oof. It's a miracle none of the pilots died just operating one. Think of it like this: it's pretty bad when you drive through a swarm of insects on a country road in florida at 35+ mph, right? Especially if you have the top down. Now imagine being in an open-cockpit, thrown-together mech that is going over 60mph in formation behind another and the hoverjets on it are creating this big fantail of dust and grit. Now, all this debris? it's gonna hit YOU. At 60+ mph. Right in the face. I'd rather be in an enclosed battlemech cockpit. Xabungle was more of a lesson on how NOT to build a mech.

[@BattleBound]

Crusher Joe DID influence 'Tech...AEROTECH, that is. Crusher Joe is very heavily influenced by Star Wars, that's undeniable. The 'mech aspect did contribute a small amount to Battletech, but Aerotech definitely has a lot to give thanks for from Crusher Joe, but Battletech also can trace thematic and aesthetic similarities to it, as well.

[@BattleBound]

​@GojiKaichou don't forget, the Corsair and Samurai aerospace fighters.

[@shaneflickinger]

Watched this series a few years ago at the recommendation of another channel that was covering Battletech. Unfortunately, I don't remember the channel name. I thought it was a great series and the emotional aspects of the effects of war hit a lot harder than I thought for an 80s cartoon. I think the production quality could have been a little higher, but overall a great watch. I always find the early history of the games I love to play fascinating.

[@Big_Mike001]

Trivia fact: When Dougram's mecha designer found out his designs were being used in Battletech, his response was essentially "I'm not really a gamer so that's not really my thing. Still, that's pretty cool."

[@BattleBound]

How neat is that? 🤩

[@Kasperl88]

NOT EVEN JUSTICE, I WANT TO GET TRUTH

[@BattleBound]

Can you see the truth?

[@a.d.samano7873]

Dougram is awesome. Tactics and battles.

[@BattleBound]

I feel like a lot can be learned about tabletop play, and a lot of lessons from the show where the use of anti-mech tactics can be applied there, as well. I tell folks all the time: study, study, study. It's like when a wrestler is just breaking into the business, and they're watching hours of recorded match footage to learn. Watching things like Dougram is sort of like that, to me. Think of the show's Vietnam-era feel. The jungle warfare and ground traps, etc. Definitely takeaways from the show that will up someone's tabletop game.

[@mollymcallister1671]

'Naive' is certainly a word to describe Crinn early in the series. Just.... wow, some of the 'brilliant strategems' he comes up with in the early episodes. The Director was right, if he'd always just jumped and ran with the first thought entering his head he'd never have survived.

[@BattleBound]

He does dumb stuff later on in the series too, but honestly, I find these elements necessary for me to believe Crinn is a real human and have investment in the story. If there's no risk of failure or poor judgment, the payoff isn't as big for me. 🥰

[@damianmiller5476]

Dougram, Armored Trooper Votoms, and Macross gave so much to early BTech, i wish they had added Southern Cross and Mospeada, i would love to use an SC Hovertank, and my favorite 'mecha the Mospeada Cyclone, real badass battle armor, so your mech gets taken out, your back up suit is the bomb. great work on the vids, keep'em coming and spread the faith, Excelsior!

[@BattleBound]

Just finished Crusher Joe, you'll like that one. Thanks for watching, hope you're doing alright!

[@noodles2459]

On 3d tech maps those periscopes are invaluable. I'd love to get one. Stanrey came out the same year as battledroids. Hex based wargames for gundam existed prior. But I think its more of a same idea at the same time coincidence.

[@BattleBound]

You'll love next week, then. We have a copy of Battle of stanrey here in the studio. Even got a look thru the periscope on camera.

[@vinoirma8225]

Awesome series, you can find it on youtube at 1080p quality made by fans with all subtitles, still online, for now...

[@BattleBound]

That's where we watched it. Super grateful to have had access to it. Also was able to catch the Crusher Joe OVAs on KZbin after watching the movie at Internet Archive. 🥰

[@MetalFalcon99]

A Macross fighter being cannon to battle tech would be a night mare for the enemy

[@BattleBound]

Have you ever played against a LAM in Battletech? 😂😬😭

[@MetalFalcon99]

@@BattleBound is it fast

[@BattleBound]

@@MetalFalcon99 LAMs are nearly un-hittable in Classic being played as they were intended. You will hear stories from older players somewhat regularly about the LAMs being used. Always the same, the LAMs terrorizing the battlefield at ludicrous speed and just ignoring all terrain. 😂

[@Xydarc]

Great video! Looking forward to seeing the other videos. And, as always, fuck Harmony Gold.

[@BattleBound]

Seconded

[@AcroRay]

Very nicely done, sir! Dougram models imported in the early 1980s was what led me into Battletech. I've often found it odd how the BT community has often seemed disinterested in the details of the rich anime world BT's earliest visual concepts originated from. You've done an excellent job presenting the Dougram anime's most essential plot and production design elements and connecting them to BT. I hope you have the opportunity to look into the "Get Truth!" manga, the recent update to the original series.

[@BattleBound]

What I really want to do is produce a documentary about the show itself, leaving the Battletech connection behind and focusing more on the 5 big takeaways I think the show was trying to give us. Oddly enough, I want to call it "Get Truth" as well, lol. I appreciate you watching and thank you for the kind words!

[@Barbariandisks]

It's funny how Harmony Gold thought they uad the rights to the Dougram combat suits to force the Unseen to exist

[@evanlindsey1100]

I would suggest Votoms as a future series to look into, as I think the main "Scopedog" mech was used as a Battletech mech. It's a different look at mech combat, but still an intriguing one.

[@BattleBound]

Those are interesting to note, as they COULD have inspired Battle Armor. But I'm not sure that they were ever directly borrowed for early BT. I'll keep looking. ❤

[@austinreed7343]

Dougram was probably the most fitting pick for Battletech out of all the Unseen. I feel like Xabungle and Votoms would have worked better than the other two.

[@cale42]

I need to get me one of them periscopes.

[@BattleBound]

Wait'll you see next week's episode. We'll have 'em... IN ACTION! 🔍

[@05Matz]

I wonder if, with a 3D printer and a couple little chips of mirror superglued in, and maybe a cheap replacement microscope eyepiece, you could make such a device yourself? I'll have to wait for the episode to see more close-ups of how they're constructed.

[@cale42]

Probably.@@05Matz

[@BattleBound]

I imagine you could. They're very simple devices, so I would guess that a 3D modeler would be able to do it without too much trouble.

[@Kitkat-986]

I deeply enjoyed this show, it's a better show than the Battletech cartoon, and it's fascinating to see the influences of the show on the Battletech franchise. I found myself genuinely engaging with the show and the characters, the writing was excellent.

[@BattleBound]

I want to make a separate doc on just the show itself, and what lessons are taken away from it. A real deep dive deconstruction. It's a seed of an idea right now, I need time to let it germinate lol.

[@BBBJOT]

great content, you should have way more subs

[@BattleBound]

Working on it! I appreciate your kind words. 😇

[@brianhenry152]

I've watched about the first 1/3rd of the show, but i can definitely see the influences on the early game. Sure, it has its tropes, but the characters are far more believable and far less annoying than a lot of Anime I've seen. Crinn is a relatable, flawed character that grows as he fights in the war, and the Dougram is far from the invincible powerhouses of Gundam. Thanks for bringing this up! Now I'm going to have to track down the rest of the show and watch! Cheers.

[@BattleBound]

It's available free on KZbin!

[@rotwang2000]

Battletech has one strength, it has endured with the same core engine for decades. Give or take a few minor points I can take a mechsheet from the original Warhammer cover boxed set and play a game with it using the latest rules and it still works.

[@HouseDavieMerc]

This is a series that I've always wanted to watch but last time I looked an English dub wasn't available. I watch a lot of subbed stuff as it is, but this is one I've been saving for a dubbed version. I prefer dubs for fast action shows so that I don't have to read during action scenes. Dubs also free me up a little to do some painting while I re-watch. Does anyone know of a dubbed version?

[@BattleBound]

I don't think it's dubbed. I resigned myself at the beginning of this project to just accepting subtitles on everything, lol. I had only watched maybe 25% of Dougram when I finally came back to it for this, and part of the reason I hadn't watched it fully was the subtitles. But I dunno. After that first 25% was past again, I found the subtitles didn't bug me. I will be honest tho, Crusher Joe's OVAs and Robotech being dubbed definitely make my life easier. 😅

[@DreamMadeProductions]

Uh oh! You are stepping into Anime Jenny's area of expertise. I'm glad to have you join us on the weeb side of the force. :)

[@BattleBound]

You'll both love diving into Crusher Joe, then 🥰

[@DreamMadeProductions]

@@BattleBound Ive only seen Robotech (FU Harm Gold) and some of Macross. Jenny has seen... like everything. Let me know I can be of any help.

[@BattleBound]

@@DreamMadeProductions is there any way you can save me 5 seasons of teenage anime watching lol

[@bovee3718]

Cant beat the old Dougram cartoon.

[@BattleBound]

I am fighting the urge to do a whole deconstructionist breakdown on the series, lol 😆

[@Overonator]

This is also where Gundam came from. You didn't use the word but how much of this stuff is actual plagiarism? Edit: Gundam precedes Dougram. 1979 vs 1981. I don't want to mislead people with false information.

[@BattleBound]

I don't know if I'd necessarily call it "plagiarism", since that word seems to imply express intent of theft. I don't believe the game creators were out to steal their way intl the spotlight, I genuinely believe that the powers that be who were around at that time were under the honest impression they had permission to license things. You can't copyright a concept, per se. So I see FASA as good faith actors in the whole thing with a shit load of mixing up being done in the middle lol. I didn't know Gundam came from here, but I don't watch it haha.

[@Overonator]

I see. I shouldn't have said Gundam comes from Dougram, it's more of the other way around. Gundam was 1979 and this was 1981. You mentioned all those themes about war and morality, that's straight out of Gundam. I'm surprised you never got into Gundam if you were aware of Dougram.

[@Year_of_the_Dell]

Throwing plagiarism like that is...rather blunt and over the line, back in the day it wasn't that and more just people forming a genre from all sides

[@Overonator]

@@Year_of_the_DellIf I see a Dougram mecha and I rename the image/model and stick it into my my war game is that not plagiarism?

[@Year_of_the_Dell]

@@Overonator now? Depends does it have a copyright? Is it extremely well known and is there any modifications done at all? Back then? Not so much of that was a concern, nore even did it come up as one would think it. One part using the same mould and one part just working with what we got Would you call me on plagerism if i used Hotwheels for gaslands?

[@typoking]

this is an absolutely amazing series. I love political intrigue in giant robot anime. I like my entertainment to, well, BE ENTERTAINING, and the political intrigue and human interactions are part of Battletech's rich story. Tuck initially didn't think I'd like it BECAUSE of the political intrigue. I actually quite enjoyed it! Great series! Not even justice! I want to GET TRUTH!