The Top 10 OVERRATED Attacks in Smash Ultimate

Get a discount on Ekster's excellent products: shop.ekster.com/mockrock | Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has a lot of incredible moves, but sometimes they're a little less incredible than people tend to think. Today let's dive into some of those moves that, while not necessarily bad, still have significant flaws that don't always get the attention they deserve.
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Music used:
"MockRock Is Here (Relaxed)" - MockRock
"MockRock is Here" - MockRock
"By Now" - MockRock
The other tracks are related to the characters listed in the video, so I'm avoiding posting them in order to prevent spoilers.
All original music, as well as its stems, are available for download to patrons, KZbin members, and Twitch subscribers
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Thanks for watching!
#SuperSmashBros #Nintendo #EksterWallets

[@MrMockRock]

Get a discount on Ekster's excellent products: shop.ekster.com/mockrock | Thanks for watching everyone! This was an interesting format to work with, overrated moves are a lot less common than underrated ones in my experience, so let me know what you thought, as well as any moves you'd like to see in the future. -Second channel: kzbin.info -Twitter: twitter.com/MrMockRock -Twitch: www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch -Patreon: www.patreon.com/mockrock -Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock

[@redsandslashgaming7513]

Hi mockrock!

[@MrMockRock]

@@redsandslashgaming7513 Hi!

[@physicsnerd18]

Hello

[@a.rustici1972]

This list was nice. Thank You for asking. :).

[@pandalenz6534]

I honestly think Joker grappling hook is overrated due to the easy dodge and VERY specific hitbox

[@grandsongames1582]

"Pit's Nair is bad!" *Shows it getting beaten out by Link Nair, the move that could clank with a battleship and be fine lol*

[@grandsongames1582]

Ok I also have to say: Mii Brawler players are... WELL aware that feint jump is the Luigi to Flipkick's Mario. We get it. We're just trying our best, mockrock, please

[@HylianKirbo]

Link nair is probably the best nair in the game, can you blame it for losing to it? I certainly can't. xD

[@rouge-ish324]

A 0.1% trade would be preferable here but you can't even get that against Link N-air unlike normal

[@jericoy.]

I'm very surprised Pit Nair made it into the list. I thought everyone knew it wasn't great

[@Benjawin6671]

False

[@OgerponIsACutie]

now for the finale: top 10 mid moves people sometimes talk about

[@RacingSnails64]

Lmao genius

[@Symonch_]

Ness jab

[@betchaos7383]

Yes, Steve’s minecart IS reactable. It’s also: a recovery move, a kill move, mobility option, projectile, command grab, techchase, and edgeguarding tool.

[@bot4hire202]

Yeah with the results of the most recent invitationals, saying minecart isn’t that amazing is kind of a joke at this point. 90% of Steve neutral at the top level comes down to building a wall, mining, punishing the opponent if they carelessly approach, if the opponent doesn’t approach then u full hop into side b, then as soon as the opponent jumps over minecart, the Steve jumps and back airs the opponent. And if they have diamond that shits killing absurdly early. And it’s all border line unpunishable, so the Steve just rinses and repeats. Usually only Steve’s using stall tactics constantly do this tho

[@Schrodingers_douchebag]

It’s also on the only character in the game THAT CAN HITSTUN CANCEL

[@Kirbman]

@@Schrodingers_douchebag I mean, that fact wasn't yet widely known at the time though.

[@Schrodingers_douchebag]

@@Kirbman I know. It still makes him more broken tho

[@candoblue1]

I’m really liking how you’re using advanced terms while also explaining what they mean in a way that makes it easier for new players to understand what’s going on without feeling like they are being babied.

[@DoritoTime]

A big thing he does is make sure that what he's talking about is backed up with relevant gameplay so you can SEE it too. Some content creators just slap footage of a random tournament match on and call it a day

[@mortezz1268]

While arsene's down air might be overrated, I think joker's down air without arsene is underrated, it's quite easy to hit off stage and sends at an angle most characters can't recover from but most people don't care about it just because it's a down air that doesn't spike

[@MrMockRock]

That's one I can agree with, idk how "underrated" it truly can be at this point because people generally understand that Joker's kit is busted haha, but dair does all that and also has some very nice combo potential.

[@smilingman4299]

It can even kill

[@justaraptor8992]

@@MrMockRock i know this might sound stupid but i think joker without arsene is kinda underrated

[@justaraptor8992]

Also awesome videos man you're pretty underrated

[@NinjaPickle]

@@justaraptor8992 You're right, that does sound stupid

[@sarasaland4709]

“Pit and Dark Pit can’t punish Fire at all.” Does it ever end for those two?

[@4bernadettatm17]

I've been a pit main since brawl and I can confirm that it's a real struggle sometimes just getting there moves to work

[@rouge-ish324]

No 😔

[@Tr0lliPop]

Actually could their arrows punish it?

[@4bernadettatm17]

@@Tr0lliPop no it's to slow

[@Tr0lliPop]

@@4bernadettatm17 bruh. A literal magical bow is not fast enough

[@kestrel7493]

Mock Rocks intro is like that of a good show, looks and sounds cool enough that I never skip it even though I seen it 100 times before

[@Tightness8]

Fuego

[@Liggliluff]

It's short enough. It's still weird to have intros on KZbin videos though, and most don't. Still a nice intro.

[@tron_the7the9]

Breaking bad

[@LARAUJO_0]

It's pretty quick, catchy, and well-made. Same can be said for RelaxAlax, Game Grumps, and WolfeyVGC to name a few

[@izumi-san2435]

Yeah, me too

[@saigesmart4167]

I'm not hating here but G&W up special is not ***practically*** punishable by every character. You can technically, but its more of a read than something reactable. If you even slightly mistime it youll be the one getting punished. Those sorts of videos showing you how to do it are done in a vacuum and don't mean much in a dynamic, high stakes match

[@Endershock1678]

To quote Nairo "Game and Watch is definitely not as good as people think he is. Sure, his up B is insane, but it has a good amount of lag. You can bait out his up B and then jump up and punish it with a lot of characters, it just looks worse since it's harder to react to online, which is good for Palutena because her up air is so strong and game and watch is so light." Once you consider that, risk reward is a factor, and missing against some characters can lead to losing very fast stocks for GW.

[@RamikinHorde]

@@Endershock1678 "just bait out his up b" is assuming you can summon a mistake from the opponent by somehow forcing an option they can usually use on reaction. I love nairo but that take is absolute doo-doo , and shows that he hasn't played against maister anytime recently

[@Endershock1678]

@@RamikinHorde Baiting out Up-B's is extremely easy to do unless you're playing against a god like Maister. Because of how safe many buttons are, often times he'll have to immediately anticipate and react, you can easily bait it out through simple conditioning. It's literally what almost every pro player tells you to do to beat GW (I think Marss and Tweek said the same thing in one of their tier list videos). It's why I've personally never struggled against Game and Watch, because I bait it out then follow up with ROB's up air, which is crazy strong and makes the risk reward far too high for GW to spam. For pete sake, Nairo could anticipate and punish ONLINE, you have no excuse offline.

[@averagejoe3099]

Well if you’re bad then yes, it’s unpunishable just like Zeldas special moves you just need to learn the timings I don’t have problems with g&w or Zelda but min min, mythra are degenerate and if you play yoshi then you must be out of apple juice Timmy

[@backgroundnpc9631]

I think the key point being made here is that it's still a great move, just not invincible --as he says, not the 'get out of jail free card' people tend to think it is. If you over-rely on it, people will notice and have at least the capacity to punish it, just like overusing any one reaction or tactic.

[@nintendofan222222222]

Another BIG thing about the Belmont's Holy Water, is that you can grab it, half the time even unintentionally. Imagine giving your opponent a better combo tool just because they used an aerial

[@squishjones2138]

Yeah mythra's aerials are less safe than other swordies aerials but mythra does not play like a traditional swordie, unlike the traditional swordie where they try to space their aerials, mythra on the other hand actually prefers to cross up on shields with her aerials Also mythra is like probably the only swordie that is the hit and run archetype (I still agree that mythra's aerials are overrated though)

[@Underworlder5]

"Also mythra is like probably the only swordie that is the hit and run archetype" when i think about it, that might actually be correct. most swordfighters hit hard enough that running is not necessary, and even if not, spacing tends to deal with that (even roy, who is punished for spacing, wants to stay in your face as long as possible)

[@squishjones2138]

@@Underworlder5 true

[@squishjones2138]

@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493 wdym?

[@babytricep437]

Yeah but mythra’s stupid and Pyra is better so don’t even play mythra

[@MysticColorsAttack]

yeah i completely agree, and also despite her relatively poor range, she can easily do a retreating fair or bair on shield and drift out of range due to her incredible air speed/ acceleration

[@bobert221]

Tfw you played Joker for 2 years and only now learned about Arsène's spike being techable on stage

[@rinn5238]

true but to be fair absolutely NOBODY tries to tech it so we wouldn't know until it actually happens

[@bobert221]

@@rinn5238 yeah most people just assume they're done for when Arsène lands his down air

[@rinn5238]

@@bobert221 lol yeah not one person i played in the 2 and a half years of maining joker teched my dair

[@StrobicsGaming]

Appreciate the shout-out!! My video is to show what's possible. Punishing the UPB in a real match comes from baiting it and being ready to punish it. Some characters have an easier time doing it than others!!

[@MrMockRock]

Haha, yeah, like many thing I think the reality won't always quite live up to the theory, but it's still an excellent demonstration, thanks for stopping by!

[@XtraCraftinGame]

Minecart is absolutely broken. It's a low-risk projectile that is safe on shield, can be jumped out of, kills incredibly early, IS A COMMAND GRAB, sets up for combos and kill confirms (and remember it's steve so combo means 70% and kill confirm means kills you at 50%), pressures (corner, forces a jump, etc), is a movement option, destroyes other projectiles with TDM (a steve tech), and as a bonus has hp on the cart and a small amount of heavy armour on steve. Also, it only costs extra resources if you do it on the ground so most steves will do it out of shorthop (grounded cart becomes a nice mixup). It's basically just a better monkey flip and is IMO easily the best side b in the game. Is it steve's entire neutral? no. can it be punished? sure if the steve spams it unsafely or the opponent gets a read, but it's still an amazing option.

[@cceider]

I think this video also shows how well balanced the game is. These moves are strong but not perfect

[@plompedu]

Can I remind you of that fact that Palutena exists aka accidentally turning a zoner into a rush down character

[@Galaxia_EX]

Yeah...except for Pit nair, which is not balanced properly at all.

[@hoanganphanle]

@@plompedu and Snake, who will zone tf out of you, but if you get close to him, his close range arsenal is like one of the best in the game

[@albertthepeacock8020]

"Well balanced" Quickplay would like to have a word with you

[@illford6921]

​@@albertthepeacock8020Quickplay is not real Smash

[@gyratemaple6073]

Gonna have to disagree on the game and watch up b segment. Each time you showed someone punishing G & W up special it was when they were standing next to each other with the punisher shielding against G & W. Now I don't play in tournaments, but I can't think that this would be a scenario that would happen to often, and even then, why would he up special there? Great content as usual man.

[@jackg6887]

Even the strongest weapon is useless when used incorrectly.

[@SP_Sour]

I think that scenario is more common than you think. The most common reason for it is that the G&W was trying to punish something out of shield, but was a little too slow or didn't realize that it was a safe move that gave the attacker time to shield, resulting in a whiffed Fire. And honestly, sometimes I've used it instead of grabbing (when I'm shielding next to a shielding opponent) just out of fear, knowing it's less likely to be punished than if I grabbed but missed. And if the opponent has something that beats DK Jr (G&W down air), there's also the problem of G&W now needing to land.

[@TrumpetMeta]

I was thinking the same thing; notice how in every clip of Maister he shows after that, the opponent is either in landing lag, or otherwise not shielding.

[@givecamichips]

I think it's to represent the opponent baiting the Fire by landing and shielding instead of aerial on shield.

[@gabrielkrows488]

While I agree with Ganondorfs Nair being here, one thing I'd like to say is it does not whiff on ALL grounded opponents. It hits incineroar (I main him). It also hits Ganondorf himself, and likely others. Also if you fast fall for the second hit, it can hit most characters.

[@chapystick_]

8:16 It… does work. If you’re expecting them to SDI out, you simply aim the F-smash upwards.

[@greatcrusader88]

1:43 hey that’s me, glad to be in this great video, definitely a good birthday present

[@enddorb]

I absolutely want a 2nd one of these, specifically for one move: Gravitational Pull (Rosalina ↓B). As a Rosalina main, I often find that when anyone with a projectile, especially item projectiles, asks for advice on the matchup, they think GP is unbeatable. But as a move that has you stand still with no hitboxes for 50 frames, that's untrue. The move really can only hit the person who fired the proectile if it's fired above Rosalina and they can time it perfectly so it swoops around and hits them, but most characters would probably throw out another hitbox by then unless it was a particularly laggy or particularly fast projectile. In fact, basically the only use case is for an airstall offstage. Combine that with the fact that this move meant to neutralize projectiles strangely doesn't interact with some moves that other reflectors do, namely Full Charged Failnaught (Byleth •B), and the fact it does nothing to protect Luma at all... People don't think it's an amazing move, but Rosalina mains consider it garbage in a similar manner Yoshi mains view their side B, in that it has one niche application, and otherwise is almost better to not have it to avoid dying to a misinput giving you an extreme amount of lag

[@victorpena8356]

I was about to write the same. GP is highly overrated by people who don't know how to use or fight against rosalina. And the fact that Rosa is a very uncommon character helps a lot to maintain this misconception. > The move is by far the worst anti projectile in the entire game. Most of the time you have no rewards using it. Even shielding, clashing or avoiding the projectile is more optimal most of the time. > it is very hard to use the projectile you just pulled against your opponent. Like really really hard. > if you manage to use the projectile you just pulled against your opponent and the projectile works like a bomb, it won't explode (snake side b, some hero spells, villager side b, Isabelle down b, etc) > the animation is longer than the actual active frames. You can get baited to use it and then get punished. > the move has enough ending and startup lag to not be very good at dealing with various projectiles at the same time. Characters like the Belmonts, ylink or Samus can easily spam tons of projectiles and see how Gravitational pull struggles a lot. > the move is extremely good against items, but just a few characters have items in their movesets > Rosalina is tall and Luma don't have defensive options. Projectiles and disjoints really hurt her playstyle and GP isn't nearly enough to deal with them. Often rosa mains recommend to lunar landing back air to clash Luma with the projectile while rosa tries to punish the opponent. That's a better option than just press down b > Rosa is a very technical character and often many of her moves are useful to perform advanced techniques. Even in that way GP is useless > the only time I use GP is when I'm too lazy to avoid a projectile and I'm far enough to not be punished. That move seriously needs a buff.

[@mekhiwatkins1535]

What about items?

[@enddorb]

@@mekhiwatkins1535 Item projectiles get pulled into the hand, but at the ranges that someone would throw them, GP is punishable. And if you mean items in casual, then that's kinda not where this video is looking

[@SP_Sour]

I didn't realize anyone thought GP was good at all. It's so slow with so little reward. You might as well use shield, it's much faster with the same effect.

[@enddorb]

@@SP_Sour Yeah, basically. But no, in the rosalina discord many people who come in asking for advice VS us as a character with projectiles mention GP. I've also seen a lot of people who play neither character say that Rosalina does good against the Belmonts because of the move

[@marzipancutter8144]

It's so refreshing listening to someone who actually understands the meaning of "overrated" and "underrated". I swear so many people use them interchangeably with "bad" and "good".

[@taterthot7112]

This was an amazing angle to take when making this video. I absolutely love that you took very notoriously good and difficult to deal with moves and provided counterplay to them that was actually useful, viable, and obscure and didn't just give some "git gud" advice. 100% hoping to see more videos like this

[@Zethoro]

The rob nair bit seems very reminiscent of esam in smash 4 telling me to "just powershield zss nair" Granted that had a pretty consistent setup thanks to crouching but it was still unrealistic to do the majority of the time.

[@Senorish]

Counterpoint on Joker/Arsene down air. It give me a special feeling and hits the dopamine real hard. But legit tho I didn't know about the fact that you can tech it. It's still may favorite move in the game cause that two part spike is just so satisfying to hit and me and my friends aren't high enough level players to hit that tech timing especially on wi-fi :)

[@Rarest26]

0:11 Look mom, I’m on TV!

[@Rarest26]

And of course, if you were to do a part 2, you already know what move I’d bring up.

[@Hippolf]

Hot take: Palutena's nair is a serious candidate for this list. Prepatch it became one of Ultimate's meme broken moves, but post-patch it's much less viable of a kill tool, people have gotten better at DI and SDI to limit nair trains, and it's relatively unsafe on shield. Casual players still often consider it among the best aerials in the game but it's only her third best aerial after bair and fair (the latter of which has also been nerfed).

[@KevSB07]

i'd argue up-air is also better than nair given how good of a juggle and kill move it is

[@Rarest26]

Her nair drops more often for me than Pit’s does. And I play both (or all three) quite often.

[@SaBasAbA-dn1xh]

One question how do you sdi and di just asking

[@ryanfuentes3785]

@@SaBasAbA-dn1xh di stands for directional input which is you deciding what way does your character goes while being a combo or while in free fall so all you do is point the joystick in the way to get out of the combo. Im sorry if this is a bad explanation I'm trying my best

[@kestrel7493]

PITBOXES AAAAAAAAAAAAA I still thank you for always bringing up pit nair. It's so frustrating and I know I have lost games to its hitboxes.

[@VarsVerum]

Cloud’s Climhazzard is by far the most overrated move ever. People talk about how amazing it is as an out of shield option when it doesn’t kill, doesn’t combo, doesn’t have anything other than damage and “get off me”. It’s not as good as people think >_>

[@KevSB07]

and it's only frame 10, not even terribly fast!

[@cpu8636]

being a good up b out of shield is all it needs to be, especially during an era of mainly wifi. cloud has other moves to fulfil “killing and comboes” so i don’t really see your point.

[@aydenator2770]

@@cpu8636 it is still an okay out of shield, but everyone says it does way more than it actually does. thats basically the definition of “overrated”

[@carnelian5118]

pretty sure you can also sdi out of the last hit

[@Simon-hs7ik]

@@KevSB07 frame 7

[@pzapi]

“Rolling in is a way to avoid any minecart follow ups” so he gets out before he hits you and down airs

[@Jackaljkljkl]

Since this video is about "really good moves, but they have weaknesses", the point about buffered/instant Ganon's Nair hitting too high made me think of Corrin's Bair. Yes, it is her best move - along with FSmash and maybe Up Air - but the instant/buffered version goes above the head of pretty much everyone in the cast (even Ganon), which rules out buffered RARs against grounded opponents in neutral. This obviously applies to her Attack-Cancel Bairs (i.e. "instant RARs") too, but these tend to be used as anti-airs, so it's not so much of a big deal. Also, Corrin's Bair comes out so slowly that throwing them out from a low altitude (e.g. after falling through a lower platform, during a RAR short-hop, etc.) has quite a small window. It's huge hitbox, kill power, recoil and horizontal recovery make it an amazing move, but the above issues prevent it from being a Top-3 Bair in the game (as some have claimed).

[@kestrel7493]

This is a really useful video, know that arsene dair is teachable and g&w up b is punishable (even though I would personally have to swap to a secondary to do so) is sure to help out me and others!

[@liamfrench3090]

It should say something about mockrocks videos that I enjoy each second of them, despite me not being big into competitive smash

[@Pigmcginnyrig]

Hopefully Feint Jump gets buffed in the next patch

[@herecomedasheep]

God bless this comment

[@decaf37]

I’d say my personal pick for the most overrated move would be Palutena’s neutral air. It’s perpetuated a stereotype of “just nair to win”, while in reality the move is quite easy to play around and in a significant portion of cases, won’t be thrown out by any experienced player to the degree many believe.

[@gurlondon558]

Definitely a good choice

[@grandphantoon1334]

Speaking of which, Falcon can actually crouch under some of Palu’s OOS options with the right spacing, then punishing with a U-smash.

[@Endershock1678]

Most characters in the game can punish it out of Shield if she lands in front of you, and you can parry the last hit of it if she tries to cross you up, making it even less safe. It's also shockingly whiff punishable and since the move lasts a while, is easy to react to a whiff.

[@SailorWhyachi]

This is what I thought would have made the list

[@binbag4203]

Palus up air is more annoying

[@pieceofbread5311]

Is it weird that the voice in my head has his voice?

[@mortezz1268]

Especially the part where you talked about how to deal with the move was very interesting, maybe make another video where you explain how to deal with moves that are hard to deal with for many people (like 10 hit combo, sephiroth neutral b, spin dash, gyro, etc)

[@RealPaPanda]

Dude i love your editing style so much. I always appreciate KZbinrs that can give me something nice to look at.

[@futureddude4250]

ANOTHER MOCKROCK VIDEO YOOOOO, happy a counterpart to the underrated was made, also so close to 100k you got this man

[@Vernias]

2:46 I am going to cry

[@Rarest26]

RIP. Do arrows work at doing that?

[@MrMockRock]

Went through 3 keyboards making this video, they are not equipped to be soaked in tears 😞

[@berkut3919]

WTF ganon nair is frame 7, hows that "very slow" o_O. The move does mad damage - like a combo. It has no landing lag, decent reach and lingering hitbox, it kills nicely, its amazing as an edgeguard. Like the move has it all. Imagine that on a faster character.

[@castform7]

4:27 This may be the definitive version but something tells me this won't be the last time we hear of Pit's gambling Nair.

[@whereisspacebar2991]

I had no idea about that Joker down air fact. That's really interesting!

[@CrystalMech]

I think this distinction applies somewhat to Link's Remote Bomb. It's powerful, it commands a good chunk of the stage, Link gets some nutty Gyro-like combos at higher percents with it, you have blast recoveries as an option now and it's great for intercepting other players' recoveries... ...but you have to commit to detonating it yourself (which requires good timing, spacing and stage awareness), it explodes when hit with flame moves (making some MUs like Snake very difficult if not played carefully), hitting someone with the bomb itself does next to _no_ knockback at low percents so it doesn't combo into the explosion until your opponent is at mid percents, at high enough percents it can actually knock the opponent _out_ of the blast radius, players can use it against you if you're recovering if they know you used your double jump and it's left onstage... It requires a lot more management than most players care to admit. To really get the most mileage out of it, you have to mix it in with smart use of Link's other projectiles, namely Boomerang. Truthfully, I throw out Boomerang _way_ more than I pull out Remote Bomb in most scenarios.

[@roryrainbow77]

I did not know feint jump had a lot of endlag actually! When I saw it on here I agreed with it for a different reason, that move is incredibly vulnerable for way less distance. When I was getting advice from mii Brawler players they said challenging it with a spike hitbox is devastating because he can't take the trade or even more so it just flat out beats him. I'm a believer that feint jump is best used as a mix up, it's not a good move otherwise and what I learned from this video further solidified it

[@yt_MLM3]

11:05 i was a rob main and i totally agree with that one, sure it can do really good stuff if you use it well but it's still weird to think that people use it as a combo tool when it's so slow

[@Drengodr]

As a Bowser main, Side B is incredibly overrated. Only kills past 100%, which is high for Bowser. It doesn't combo, it has incredibly short range, and if it whiffs, you're eating a heavy punish. It's not a bad move by any means, great as a mix-up, but far from the OP option everyone seems to think it is.

[@youtubewontletmetypeagoodu8128]

It’s a super quick oos move that’s a command grab & kills. Most characters would trade their side bs for bowsers.

[@PeppySweetheart]

You make amazing videos, dude! Keep it up! 💜

[@Shireikai]

Saying a frame 7 move is "slow" is disingenuous. Frame 7 is as fast or faster than the average aerial. Moves tend to be slower the larger they are as well, so Ganon and Wolf both are just fine having frame 7 nair's especially given their size, they can out space many MANY faster moves in the game.

[@nesspants3589]

12:04 as a mii main im so glad somebody pointed this out. feint jump is also extremely predictable due to this lag present on the ground and in the air

[@ImCookieSparx]

Same here.

[@VorileBemx]

Speaking of belmonts, t3 dom also stated holy water is a worse version of pk fire and arc fire combined.

[@jace.r]

I think an interesting video topic would be moved that newbs love to use and how to counter them. Usually this is easily spammable moves like Kirby’s down special and Ike’s up special.

[@yt_MLM3]

10:17 wow this music is so cool i hope it is in smash haha

[@rul30fl4w5]

One thing to note about Feint Jump is that it does have an auto cancel window on both the normal jump and the kick that good Brawlers will abuse so that is something to keep in mind if a Brawler player is doing their Feint Jump from higher up

[@theillusionist1494]

I’d love to see another of these, for each video. There’s one move in particular that seems like it’d fit in either of these lists, and I’d love to see where you think it lands, that being Kirby’s dair. Obviously, in a vacuum, it’s one of the weakest spikes on the roster, with slow startup and weak knockback, but it’s also very active and meant to be abused by a character with multiple jumps. I’d say it’s more overrated by beginners than it is underrated at top level, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see it on either list. Hell, including it in both would be funny.

[@aidenzorn8322]

Can’t believe you didn’t mention that Pyra up b can be punished with skewer out of shield

[@aidenzorn8322]

It’s -48, skewer has 30 frame startup, shield drop is 11, 41 < 48

[@ShinxBOOM247]

The weirdest thing to me about the Pits Nair (and their multi hit hitboxes in general) is that there are a bunch of far more consistent multi hit attacks that have far different hitboxes. Hitboxes on multi hits in smash are a bit of a roulette wheel in general in terms of how they work, some spawning a bunch of hitboxes that cover the general area of the spin (stuff like the Pits, Mewtwo, and Banjo Nairs come to mind), some creating one or several hitboxes which spin around in a circle (Palu, Byleth, Mythra, Plant, and Ivysaur all have this kind of Nair), and some that dead ass just create one hitbox that pulls opponents in no matter what (That would be Pikachu and Lucas's Nair)... it makes you question why they didn't just stick with one consistent method that works towards matching the visual while functioning consistently rather than trying out so many different methods for these kinds of moves

[@wisteqs6644]

14:11 - 15:33 interesting.. so apparently moves that spiked you while you were grounded (sending you upwards) used to be techable in previous games except the first. Now in ultimate, they're techable but Joker's Arsene seems to be a special exception. (tbh i would've thought all grounded spikes were techable in ultimate prior to this)

[@Mepphy99]

i like that After the Dair tech thing was discovered, the move became Better joker going for more Fair1 UpSmash and other setup makes so Dair doesn't get teched that much (or i Just find bad player online)

[@junipermoss4537]

my underrated move is banjo down special. it's still the best move in his kit but the fact that the opponents can grab it with an attack means all you have to do to avoid it is time your attacks when you land on it. and it has tons of endlag, way more than comparable moves. on top of that, it comes out frame 8, meaning unlike snakes grenade or duckhunts can, it can't be used to combo break. it's still good when thrown, but you have to wait through the entire 44 frame move before you get to grab it. the closest comparison is diddy's banana, but the banana is a kill confirm where the egg rarely combos into more than a backair.

[@intel_coar6844]

It seriously bothers me that the move description for flip jump literally says he leaps with invulnerability, even though he gets like 3 frames and when he lands the end lag lasts so long I could go grab a snack

[@jwackingkilz]

For ganon you can hit some medium or large sized openings by fast falling after jumping while doing neutral air

[@RacingSnails64]

As a Ganon main since Brawl I'm used to working with lackluster tools lol, and tbh the drawbacks of his nair you listed don't seem to impact me much? I'm used to being slow, I don't use it out of shield (anything else would be better), and nair 1 doesn't push enemies back yes but that means you can combo/confirm off it. Nair's a major part of his gameplay and its positives outweigh its negatives, and you can fill in its drawbacks in with other moves.

[@jonathanlgill]

Yeah I feel like anyone trying to use a rising Nair with Ganon is doing it wrong. Not sure that makes the move all that much worse. I agree it's not the best Nair in the game, but that's partly because almost every character has a good, if not great, Nair.

[@JEWong47]

One thing you didn't mention about Wolf's nair is that the strong hit doesn't last as long as a lot of other nairs' strong hits, either. Most sex kick strong hits last anywhere from 4-6 frames, while Wolf's only lasts 3 frames, meaning you have less leeway for spacing it and compounds with the fact that his weak hit is as weak as it is

[@theedgewater2917]

Can confirm from being the pit facing the k rool having n air miss breaks my heart

[@obeserob5027]

Surprised KO punch wasn't on here. Takes away mac's only real way to answer to a lot of top tier matchups for a move that does kill at 20% but you can't true combo into it and will get you punished hard KO punch is essentially a scare tactic and nothing more

[@enumthunder]

This is awesome. I love how he considers his topics, even if everything isn't always 100% correct. He isn't a robot, he's a guy. The entertainment value and production quality make it easy to overlook the tiny mistakes. All that being said, Best Defensive Options and Worst Defensive Options when?

[@detectiveg7885]

Awesome video i wonder what are the most properly rated attacks ?

[@JuicyJayce69]

HE UPLOADS AGAIN!! Always so excited to see these uploads. Keep up the good work man!

[@splubber99]

Loved the vid and would definitely watch a sequel!

[@byronlopez3422]

This is going to be of so much help, please do more 🙏

[@elijahrock3914]

6:00 slingshot threw this to the dirt

[@eaa1338]

2:44 I feel your pain. I play lucas and his bottom 15 fh, floaty double jump and low range vertical moves makes it impossible to punish gnw for it.

[@nugget1631]

This was actually a pretty fun video, and here I was expecting something super controversial! The only one I’d have to disagree with is Steve’s minecart, as the resources the powered rail variant consumes aren’t the most useful and you straight up cannot shield it or you’ll get command grabbed

[@draconocor1309]

I'd love to see a follow- up on Best & Worst moves for each type, once every character is out- perhaps some of the spots have changed drastically.

[@pikabots123]

I remember getting rested by using pit’s nair cause of the bad hit box and that still upsets me Also funny how they compare it to byleth’s nair yet didn’t fix the hit box that patch yet byleth’s fine

[@Jackaljkljkl]

Byleth's Nair also has that final landing hit that catches opponents out so often.

[@DeronHargrove]

I agreed with all of this, weirdly enough. You did an excellent job giving reasonings and analyzing each move. Also didn't realize how laggy Wolf's nair was, huh

[@mtoi7341]

Also also, while I know your content is, to my observations, fairly original, I'd be interested to see your take on each character's worst and best move, something done a year or two ago by a handful of other Smash KZbinrs to my research.

[@matthewhitchcock9555]

13:17 whoa whoa whoa!! What is that schmovement???

[@skyshoesmith6098]

Mockrock content is always a good watch!

[@monmagog]

2 MockRock videos in the same HOUR? Today is a good day

[@unidentifiedperson1357]

7:17 the entirety of real sword fighting explained in on sentence.

[@gatolf2]

You’re a hero for voicing the absurdities that have happened to the pits. I thought I was crazy when I was complaining about non swordies attacks out ranging pits SWORDS! I love playing as those 2 but they get shafted so hard by being “balanced” in a game where every other character has janky ass gimmicks 😂

[@gatolf2]

And also mentioning mii brawlers version of faint jump. I realized that move wasn’t really that good after I… used it in training mode lol

[@meepswag35]

Now that soras out, we can finally get the best moves series and once we figure out how good he is.

[@grimripper420]

i literally learned how to consistently rising short hop aerials last night and i've been playing smash for years i feel like a pleb

[@OpinionatedGamer]

I finally know what someone means when they say a move is -6 on shield etc. That was not the purpose of the video but you did a good job explaining it thank you!

[@OniiChanPls]

Sometimes I imagine Ganon with ZSS flip kick

[@killerbug05]

4:19 genuine question, why didn't they just make it one large circle? That's how other similar moves seem to be 🤨 and it would possibly solve the whole problem of characters falling out of it

[@leol2254]

btw would it be possible for the pits to punish Fire with arrows?

[@superstarandfriends2008]

To punish Game and watch up b with both pits. Try netrual b aiming upwards

[@L1N3R1D3R]

Holy Water also sucks because you can shield it and suddenly the Belmont can also get hurt by it. Even worse, the opponent can then grab it and throw it themselves, making it only hurt the Belmont.

[@SP_Sour]

Good video, though I still think Minecart is too good. Online definitely makes it worse, but for me the problem is how hard the powered version hits for an easy burst option. I've seen that thing kill superheavies at like 60%. That's just stupid.

[@scarletpanda8717]

You are right that joker dair can be teched, but if you get good enough at reacting to it, it won't matter. Also there is a way to hit dair so that you only get the arsene hitbox.

[@Pigmcginnyrig]

Gonna be interesting to see what moves aren’t as good as they seem

[@gameboyn64]

I would say that marcina dolphin slash could be added to this list. Everyone talks about how it is fast, has invincibility frames and is a combo breaker. No one talks about its really tiny sweet spot, lack of safety on hit at low percents, incredibly high end lag and lack of aerial drift, and lack of horizontal recovery with a tight ledge snap window making recovery really predictable.

[@senoreg]

I remember when I got pit in random, I got beat out by a mii brawler constantly, no matter what attack I used, which makes no sense

[@allisthemoist2244]

I personally like your archetype videos/problems with videos. Eg. The problems with counters or the problems with zoners

[@patrickburton1401]

Mii Bralwer Flip Jump can be auto canceled from a double jumps height

[@UnknownSpooky]

As a BK main, I am very surprised Wonderwing didn't show up on this list

[@rinmet_]

as a robin main, the thing about belmont down b also applies to robin side b. it’s not as good as people think but at least robin side b can’t be used against you since it can’t be caught

[@scoopishere7881]

I didn't even know there was a powered rail version of Minecart.