The Tragedy of Corbulo: The Republic's Last Soldier

[@tribunateSPQR]

What should Corbulo have done differently?

[@StanGB]

Not allowed Nero to take away his command for starters....

[@kaiserwilly4234]

@@StanGB HMM... marched on Rome.

[@geordiejones5618]

​​@@StanGBhe had the most clout by far at the time, though I imagine both Paulinus and Vespasian would have either encouraged their direct superiors to challenge him or taken up the cause themselves if Corbulo crossed his Rubicon. And of course many thought Galba had what it took to be emperor before he reigned, so it wouldn't have been easy if Corbulo couldn't convince two of those three to join him.

[@WorthlessWinner]

not conspired to murder his ruler and take power?

[@UntoTheBreach24]

Probably become a farmer

[@brenokrug7775]

I'm a simple man: I see a Tribunate video, I leave a like.

[@tribunateSPQR]

Each like and comment is much appreciated!

[@wlouet6335]

Me too

[@geordiejones5618]

There are others that I think qualify. Agricola and Pompeianus during the Pax Romana seemed to both feel like Republic throwbacks. Pertinax and Probus were both soldier-emperors who made the best out of bad situations, and were widely praised for their virtue. Vetranio, Ursicinus and Sebastianus were all generals under the Constantinians who were given huge responsibilities and were praised for their fair governance. Count Theodosius was very loyal and served all over under Valentinian, pretty much the last major general not to get involved in strongman tactics. And of course Stillicho, Constantius III and Majorian all tried their best to rule fairly in crazy times, surrounded by traitors and strong enemies.

[@tribunateSPQR]

well said - would love to get to videos on all of them eventually

[@portocaiofs]

Thank you for this channel. Finally a roman history chanel from a people's perspective! You're really worth of the name you chose: tribunate!

[@tribunateSPQR]

We are inspired by the legacy of the Gracchi and aim to keep thier legacy alive - Roman history for the people by the people

[@gow2ilove]

Great video. Really interesting story of loyalty and the incompetence of power mad leaders

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks! Hopefully it was worth the extra wait!

[@StanGB]

I really like these explorations of the downside of the empire. All too often the move to an imperial system is portrayed as bringing stability when purges like this show it remained as unsteady as ever

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

Very thought provoking - truly a man born at the wrong time

[@tribunateSPQR]

Indeed. He could have accomplished much more had he been born into a more open era

[@MTTC-me5dj]

Man the empire sometines feels like a sad tragedy

[@maxsonthonax1020]

One long cascading tragedy.

[@tribunateSPQR]

It really was - a massive collapse in centuries long slo-mo

[@MrCalls1]

@@tribunateSPQRin some ways the slow 5 century long collapse is quite the testament to the strength of the (flawed) republic which only had 5centuries to assemble the titan before it began to be slain.

[@sidhantmohanty5256]

Nice to see more people talking about Corbulo. He was a very good general. Need videos on Agricola, Turbo and Paulinus too. Those were the men who maintained Rome's military competency but are not talked about too often in modern times. They too deserve much credit for their accomplishments. There are many more I am forgetting (someone from Trajan's Wars) that ought to be remembered more often.

[@Ancient__Wisdom]

Very interesting story about a forgotten Roman

[@WorthlessWinner]

Structural factors caused this to happen. It only takes on general rebelling to teach future rulers to crush any general who gets too much power. If nero hadn't crushed him, some general would've rebelled. Rome didn't "lose power" by becoming a monarchy, so much as it is hard to project power in the ancient world when your country gets too big. Parthia and Germany were just too far away for them to deal with. The late republic couldn't deal with them any better than the monarchy could. Outside the second Punic war, the republic was NOT meritocratic - there've been studies showing military ability played basically no role in political success (it was all "what family are you from" and how good at oratory you were) and even if you were elected, they used a lottery to decide what army you commanded! The republic to monarchy was just a change from five or six families to one (and anyone they married into - so basically the five or six) To say Nero and Caligula were the worst rulers ever, we must take senatorial sources (that in nero's case, all admit he was loved by the plebs even years after he met his end) at face value. Monarchy seems to have served rome at least as well as the republic ever did, it probably wouldn't have even been able to maintain it's large size if it tried to stay a republic!

[@tribunateSPQR]

I fully agree that Rome's ability to project power became exponentially more difficult the larger it became and that even at its height the Republic was no true meritocracy. However I do think it did a better job apportioning commands than under the empire and that the reluctance to entrust command to competent generals (for 100% justifiable reasons within the monarchic system of course) made additional conquests virtually impossible. The Republic was flawed and I don't mean to cast it as a utopia compared to the monarchy - in my opinion they were both deficient systems at many level but each had unique faults.

[@Vmac1394]

Nero didn't do himself any favors in history by forcing Seneca to kill himself, despite it being doubtful that the philosopher had anything to do with the Pisonian Conspiracy. History is written by nerds and executing such a titanic figure in philosophy for something he almost certainly had nothing to do with will have you painted as a villain and rightfully so.

[@sugar_walls]

i usually post dumb little jokes here but goddamn your channel is endlessly fascinating, comrades

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thank you so much - this positive feedback means so much to us!

[@MarkusAldawn]

Great video, but I thought the CTA was a bit bizarrely inserted this time. Maybe it's just because the tone became a lot more upbeat before returning more sombrely to discussing how doomed Corbulo was, but it kind of chopped the section up. Overall a minor note ("the plate was slightly too large" rather than "the plate was dirty" in terms of getting served food at a restaurant), but I thought I'd mention it in case you find it a useful one. But again, great video! Corbulo's death as another thread between the Republic and the Empire being cut is a really good way to explore just how the process of politicsl change gets entrenched. The idea of secondary confrontation with the old system, as if to flex how in charge the new system is, seems to pop up a lot. The USSR targeting the Kulaks, the Irish Republic's trade war with the UK, or even 'Carthago delenda est'. As much about seeing off some perceived threat as proving that you can.

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks - appreciate the feedback! If this felt a bit shoehorned in I understand (it kind of was), but I do always want to provide some level of actionable analysis so that there is a takeaway

[@runningsocal00]

Great vid as always

[@tribunateSPQR]

much appreciated! very glad you enjoyed it

[@troydavis1]

My third video from you. Congrats for the good work. Learning new stuff though ive heard a lot already. Thats good.

[@dalvinmccollum6575]

This is gonna be good! A kind of self reflective look at the Quirites

[@quentinquentin6752]

I had not heard much of Corbulo and certainly not of his military prowess!! Many thanks for this wonderful video

[@baswar]

Its a great video and very thought provoking. Though i agree the failure or refusal to make good use out of its generals clearly made their frontiers weaker. I think it's important to remember that Rome's enemies were not static they had been trading and fighting the romes for decades they were learning how to deal with roman armies, as the weaker sides they also HAD to learn how to fight rome while its naturally harder for an empire fighting 2 fronts to adapt. Rome probably wasnt losing capabilities, it was likely a problem of gaining capabilities at a slower rate than their enemies. Realistically how much could having good generals really have improved Rome's capabilities. Though granted hedonistic psychos like Nero definitely made them relatively weaker

[@baswar]

Though on a side note i do love your story telling and ability to state your views in a clear and intelligent manner

[@thevisitor1012]

Very underrated general. I wish the stoics of Rome had mentioned him in their writings/teachings. He seems to be a perfect example of what the philosophy teaches. Or perhaps they did, as many of their works are missing, like Epictetus' discourses (5 to 8).

[@andrewnolt5216]

Fantastic video

[@f1nalgambit381]

Nice video

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks!

[@JG-oi5gg]

Loving your work. I know there is plenty of history without including fiction, but I would really appreciate a video or two on Colleen McCullough’s masterwork, the Masters of Rome series. Especially the first two novels. They mark the beginning of my fascination with Rome. Even if you just went through and said this and that seems realistic and this is clearly made up, I would love it! But regardless, keep up the good work!

[@meowcatmeowkitty]

Reminds me of Belisarius, though he was fortunate enough to avoid death or physical punishment for his impressiveness. I wonder how you might compare the two men.

[@BernasLL]

Cool video!

[@m.streicher8286]

I appreciate the general criticism of monarchical systems

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks! I'm of the firm belief that monarchy was and remains a terrible approach to government and that the downfall of Rome can be attributed to the society-wide changes it made to accommodate monarchy

[@ProbusVerus]

Great video! I always retain the idea that the imperial system place so much importance on the individual virtue of the ruler so in a sense an Empire under Marcus Aurelius would be better than any republic but anything less than that would be worse than any republic. For the rule of one heightened the good quality of the man as much as the rule of many lessen the lesser quality of its ruling elites.

[@thevisitor1012]

Even if the ruler is virtuous they aren't safe look what happened to Pertinax.

[@gregorylittle1461]

Thanks!

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thank you so much for the support! This means the world to us!

[@bobdylan9470]

Great source of brain food. Love all your videos!

[@mgclark46]

This dialogue sounds like it could have been written by KZbinr Thersires The Historian,

[@countdowntorevolution9986]

it's nothing like the style of Thersites the Historian.

[@tribunateSPQR]

I really like his work and he was an inspiration for the channel

[@mgclark46]

"This narrative" would be a better noun-phrase than "dialogue".

[@benjaminsente7430]

citing or mentioning the most prominent sources used here at the particular moment would be great

[@Warmaker01]

This internal instability of the Empire is why I never put the military prowess of the Roman army during the Principate on the same level as the Mid and earlier parts of the Republic. The armies of Rome in the Principate were very capable but the highest echelons of leadership looked too wishy washy. Rulers are paranoid about any chance of being toppled. You literally can't be a good general during the Empire and not draw suspicion.

[@robkarnis7020]

Imperator Claudius deserves better treatment in this, even if only for the successful invasion of Brittania ...

[@capuchinhelper]

I learned about Corbulo from Halo: Forward Unto Dawn

[@Taistelukalkkuna]

"Have you heard the tragic tale of Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo the Loyal?"

[@CSmith-hx2pm]

Commenting for algorithm

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thank you! It really helps!

[@YaminoSeigi]

Axios!

[@tribunateSPQR]

You are worthy!

[@rahul87184]

Is this channel related to Historia civilis, because it sounds very similar.

[@tribunateSPQR]

I enjoy his content a lot, but no we aren't connected in any way beyond our mutual love of ancient history.

[@michaelsmyth3935]

Claudius. Still in the top Seven. He seized the secondary treasure, bribed the army, took most of Britain, if he had continued to listen to Narcissus....

[@josephpiskac2781]

Isn't there some revisions that paint Nero in a more favorable light?

[@tribunateSPQR]

There is increasing consensus that his misdeeds were exaggerated. In addition, even our negative sources still admit he was popular with the masses. However I don't feel there has been a new consensus on him that moves opinion too far from where it was previously.

[@PedroFigueiredo-q9x]

Good analysis. Missing is the mention of the last republican, Sulla, one of the few to get the highest award : the Corona Graminea.

[@mikeaxle1980]

He should’ve done what Sulla did, and March back on Rome But it is true. In the Republic, the greatest and fist men lead the nation for a year, followed by another ambitious, great man to succeed him. So All monarchies are filled institutions

[@larskaaber9869]

So interesting - Corbulo sounds like the Erwin Rommel of antiquity, forced to suicide but still loyal.

[@raptor4916]

I always thought Claudius was judged to be a pretty good emperor and if you ignore tiberius's personal proclivities which is admitedly a big ask he also a pretty good emperor.

[@SmilefortheJudge]

I remember giving Caesar gi joes when he was young. I never should have got him the “crucified” action figure with real vinegar sponge and centurion. As soon as I left I got in trouble with drawing anyone in Arabia. The years just flew by. I remember when we spat pigment to leave hand prints and made thicc girls. Nothing has really changed.

[@francobriozzzo6325]

The imperial system would had lasted more than a 1000 years if Augustus had made the election of the emperors somehow meritocratic.

[@justicesmith7833]

Too often do we equate heredity with monarchy. The two were not the same. Heredity was always a foolish plan: Augustus was chosen due to his skill and was among the best emperors. A better system of choosing the monarch of a country has existed all over the place in history and even today and equating deficiencies of heredity to all monarchy is unfair.

[@Avinkwep]

The picts of Scotland at this time are actually not the modern Scots, the Scottish of today migrated from Ireland after the fall of Rome

[@Kuudere-Kun]

"Maligned in every source we posses" not true, Josephus who actually knew him spoke positively, as did Dio Chrysostom.

[@MTTC-me5dj]

Wait the christian chuch father?

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@MTTC-me5dj No that's John, Dio was a Greek Philosopher.

[@MTTC-me5dj]

@@Kuudere-Kun ah oka thanks dude!

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@MTTC-me5dj You're Welcome!

[@Polosebastian14]

Too critical of claudius

[@TobyTubeS]

Riveting storytelling

[@m.streicher8286]

I wonder why I find the Republican period so much more interesting

[@notiowegian]

The triumvirate purged thousands in Rome and yet Augustus is viewed as a great leader...lol.

[@Eleftherios323]

Άξιος θαυμασμού και μίμησης ο στρατηγός και πολέμαρχος Corbulo.