The TRANSONIC ZONE

[@DrBreezeAir]

I would like to thank the KZbin algorithm for taking this Russian viewer to a gem of a channel which is everything he wished for and more.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, glad you like of videos, Cheers

[@Iwillfigureoutanamelater]

Thank you. That’s the best ELR explanation I’ve ever heard.

[@markandsamafterwork]

thanks Man, Cheers

[@MrSjcod]

Your explanations are clear and concise and very logical. Not an easy concept to understand but it definitely helped me. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@caseyburns6613]

Absolutely spot on ! Your truly one of the best. I appreciate all the time and effort you put into your chosen passion. Thank You

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Casey, Cheers

[@caseyburns6613]

@markandsamafterwork I wonder where in Aus you do your shooting. I worked over in Roma Toomba area for a bit. Big open spaces. Again thank you for your insight. (Both of you)

[@stuartmills5704]

Great info. Never had it explained like that before in that amount of detail. I appreciate all that you do. Keep em coming.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@klintonodonnell3318]

I agree 100% this is some great information, and makes complete sense.

[@jaredtansley]

I always learn more in 5 minutes watching this channel than I could in 5 hours of shooting and talking with other more experience shooters at my local target club.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Jared, glad you liked

[@buckshotaaa]

That is the best and clear description on his subject that i have heard, thank you Mark. ATB from the UK.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, thanks

[@lovetoflylovetofly3843]

Love it Mark and Sam, that's so awesome! I have always felt that this was true, and when I started watching your videos years ago, you proved it to me time and time again.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, glad you liked.

[@aaronbuckmaster7063]

I enjoyed watching you explain these things. I’ve tried to explained these same things to the new long range shooters for a while now. They get stuck on what they read or hear. I hope everyone listened to you, or they’ll have to figure it out the hard way. Well done.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Aaron, Cheers

[@augiegray6239]

Right on Mark! The only time I have seen a bullet keyhole (besides when it hit something in flight) was with a .44 magnum Marlin. The bullets flew fine up to 240 grains, heavier than that (at 300 grains) they began to tumble. The rifling rate was not fast enough to stabilize the bullet. In addition, poor quality bullets may have off set centers of gravity which will induce wobble and instability at various speeds (just like a poorly balanced tire). Flight time in the wind (along with changing winds) is what really messes with point of impact. Here is a simple example from the Hornady ballistics calculator: Cal= .308; MV=2800 fps; Bc=0.415; Wind=5mph@90 degrees. Range=100 to 200 yds. Velocity change= 2582 to 2375 fps; Wind drift= 1.2 in. Range=200 to 300 yds. Velocity change= 2375 to 2177 fps; Wind drift= 2.2 in Range=1200 to 1300 yds. Velocity change= 1006 to 960 fps; Wind drift= 17.5 in (over the same 100yd increment)! Now throw in variable speeds and directions; those things are what change impact point, not some imagined instability. And of course, crappy bullets. The rest up to in the shooters skill and quality of rifle/optic/other equipment. Tony

[@markandsamafterwork]

Hi Tony, Yep, your on it, Cheers and all the best.

[@kylewalton7005]

thank you mark. when i first started watching your chanel you inspired me to go past those transonic zones. i was caught up with that myth and just simply wouldn't try going out of supersonic. but after seeing you consistently doing it now my limit is what i can get with my scopes and their adjustments. thanks again.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Hi Kyle, great to hear, many are still stuck on the other side of that puzzle, hope this helps, Cheers and all the best.

[@blue_ridge_shooting762]

This demonstrates the value of actually getting out and trying things for yourself before just believing what you read on the internet. Thanks Mark.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Trav, Cheers

[@thesoggycheeseburgerincide7401]

Excellent video Mark, I shoot a lot of bulk 55 grain 223 out to 1000 yards. It goes transonic around 700 but it's relatively accurate on a calm day, mix in a little wind and that light transonic bullet gets thrown all over the place.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, you are almost going ELR with those little pills out there, and yes the wind would fair mess with them, Cheers

[@muyuanhe356]

Always learning new things in your channel. Being a physics major phd student, these knowledge make so much sense lol.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, glad you liked, Cheers

[@ashleynicely1046]

I can only describe this video as wonderful, Mark. Field measurements and boots on the ground often take a back seat to math and computer models that so often, as in the case (or lack thereof, for example, of totally unsuccessful predictions of man-made global warming) when half the relevant factors simply are left out or even unknown. Man sailed the world successfully for thousands of years with totally erroneous knowledge of how multiple sails on a boat interacted, and I mean total misunderstanding, until 1966, when a man named Avril Gentry came along and explained it to the world, simply by examining and reporting on reality. Admittedly a difficult, but not impossible thing to do. Strangely, the misconceptions in sail interaction hang on, despite the obstacle of reality, as they will with your elegant take down of the dreaded trans-sonic zone. Your insights are as accurate as Gentry's. Magnificent job, Mark, the leap in understanding impressive. Keep up the ine work.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Ashley, yes the there are more than a few places the world of theory has a different side to the world of reality, not tp say the theory is wrong, just a maybe little incomplete, Cheers

[@WhitePointerBrutus]

Thanks Mark. Fantastic explaination that makes sense!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, Cheers

[@Sam-ix9gd]

Love your channel Mark, Since you never heard a bullet thats an issue The 30 cal 168gr sierra mk out of a m1a service rifle (were about 1100 ft above sea level ) tends to come thru the target sideways at 1000 yd. Ive seen many that do that it can be frustrating to get the rifle to go a grand. Most stepped to the 190 sierra and found durability issues with the rifle. this was before Berger sold 30 cal lr bullets. Sierra came out with the 175 to help the service rifle shooters. I think this is the bullet that started the transonic explanation.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, one of the not so good bullet designs, lots written on them, Cheers Sam

[@Addictedtosteel]

Great video Mark! I've been waiting to hear your thought's and explanation on this subject for a while now so thank you!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@jarretschnell5463]

I liked your video and the way you explained it. Good job.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Jarret

[@larryrichins7887]

I would love to go to Australia and shoot with you that would be awesome cannot afford it but it's a dream come true! I have great respect for you thank you for putting out your videos! Always looking forward to seeing you on KZbin have a nice day 😊! Cheers mate!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Larry, yes same here, would be great to other parts of the world sometime, but no possible atm, thanks for the comment, Cheers and all the best.

[@AllNighterHeider]

I never thought of rating the rpms of a bullet. An average of 200,000k sounds like a lot, I'm gonna have fun calculating that out. And your "big ass target" comment was very funny and genuine. Thanks for your videos, we appreciate you both.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@MrT13]

That’s kinda the ever standing wall with some stuff. Tell them you want a 1-7 twist whatever mm say 6.5. Chamber it for creed and sure you can shoot heavy 147 150 156 out of it. Chamber it in 26 nosler and you’ll see why you can’t shoot it past 100 yards lol. Or 100 ft for that matter. If you over spin a bullet it’ll just come apart. Literally explode.

[@MrT13]

3300FPS x 60..... is 198,000 in a 1-12” gun. Add .714 more twist and you’ll spin that 140grain eldm at 340,000 rpm. Noooooo bueno lol but you can shoot a heavy bullet fast!!!! Lol for about 40-50’ lol

[@MrT13]

Faster you go and you actually have to back off twist. And be able to use same heavy bullet. But not tear it apart just get it there quicker. That’s why I don’t understand 1-7 twist guns. If you want to shoot a heavy bullet but can’t. Don’t just spin it faster find a bigger chamber and shoot it faster... A 156 don’t shoot out of a 1-8 creed cause your not pushing it fast enough... still gotta get the bullet, any bullet. To 200,000... but the more you spin it the slower it goes.

[@ourvaluesarewhoweareinadem4093]

@14:18 "or maybe you have some stuff to learn." I learn a boatload from all your videos, but this is the main lesson I take away from them all. I have more to learn. Always. I learn from your videos but also get 'homework' that I have to research and learn on my own and dig deeper into topics you discuss.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, glad you like, cheers

[@280ackleyimp]

Hi Mark, from what I've seen and experienced I 100% agree. People seem to forget as you go transonic the bullet is dropping a lot more therefore you aim a lot higher. The higher the bullet travels the more undetectable wind it encounters hence the inconsistencies come into play.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, Cheers

[@340wbymag]

A friend was shooting at a target 1 mile away with his .300 Ultra-mag from one mountainside to another and we were lucky enough to recover several. The damage to the bullets surprised us because the plastic ballistic tips were mostly undamaged while there was serious damage to the sides of the bullets, clearly indicating the bullets were not pointing forward upon impact. The Nosler bullet company stated these bullets become unstable at about 1250 fps according to their studies. I have always assumed the loss of stability was a gyroscopic issue, but your explanation cleared that up, so now I am assuming it must be the actual production quality of the bullets that cause this. Of course it must be stated these are bullets designed for hunting at reasonable distances and not for extreme long range accuracy, so I am not speaking negatively towards Nosler in any way. Your videos are very thought provoking and illuminating.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, and yes can depend on many details, glad you liked the vid, Cheers

[@motorsport32cw]

Awsome thanks a heap mark that changed my whole perspective on things. Cheers

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks man, Cheers

[@W5rr2nG]

Been waiting for this one. Thanks!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@davidakes8892]

Long time fan , great knowledge!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Appreciated, Cheers

[@markbyfield7050]

Totally agree and nicely explained Mark. Something spinning at 200k+ rpm can't get unstable! Some time back Hickok45 had a problem with 44 Magnum tumbling with feet of the muzzle. Turns out that the Marlin Micro Groove rifling needed the larger of the 44M available (about 3 thou larger than the smaller dia available) Using the smaller dia rounds it just didn't spin the bullet up and it tumbled right out of the muzzle. I've seen a lot of pistol rounds tumble and get that, but rifle? it has to be due to other factors than the 'transonic' zone. By the way, the bag rider you sent me, spot on mate. Perfect fit for a Magpul Gen3 on an RPR.

[@markandsamafterwork]

hi mark, yes many size issues in those and many others that folks have work out, in our bullet world, no spin means no stability. Glad you like the bag rider, Cheers and all the best.

[@davebone8326]

Great easy to understand explanation, well done Mark 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

Thank you very much for the information and your time...very interesting !!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@greghart6310]

Great content. Illuminated a topic I always found confusing

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@HansFormerlyTraffer]

Makes perfect sense. Question: there are a few guys trying to get plain lead bullets with powder coating to shoot from rifles at faster speeds. A very big problem is range. After 150 yards consistency "goes to mud" as you say. The bullets are generally round nose bore riders traveling at near 3000 fps. One fellow who is testing these is convinced that the bullets are not able to be balanced as they are just cast , coated and sized. I am not convinced that this is the problem. BUT I am working on swaging making swaging dies that theoretically would make more balanced bullets (more precision). I am beginning to think that the phenomenon of torque deformation is what is the real culprit. Because of the massive rotational torque it is literally deforming the non- jacketed bullet. I know that your expertise is mostly in heavy jacketed bullets and solid copper bullets, but you understand what these things are doing well so I thought I would inquire as to what you think about this situation. Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Hi Hans, yes you are right, lead can not deal with the forces involved in that sort of rotation and flight speeds, needs a stronger exterior, that is what the jacket was all about, Cheers

[@SnakePliscan]

If you had a perfectly flat and level pane of glass and you slowly rolled a unbalanced bullet on it the bullet would always stop rolling heavy side down, i'm assuming they are cast smooth enough to roll, seems like that would be one way you could verify if the bullet is balanced. It seems to me, if the bullets are coming apart because they are to soft wouldn't one immediately consider alloying the lead with a harder material to combat this, why are these bullet makers restricting themselves to plain lead ?

[@HansFormerlyTraffer]

@@SnakePliscan They are not restricting themselves to soft lead. Many have learned alloying arts...to the degree of alloying in even very slight amounts of things like copper. Antimony is the most common lead -hardener. But when it gets to a certain point. the crystalline structure becomes large and it shatters. Copper helps with toughness. There are many considerations...gas cutting for example. harder lead can actually "leak" gas worse than softer alloy. because of the phenomenon called gas cutting. There are methods of mitigating that too. Your mention of rolling a bullet on glass....There are instruments that test the balance of bullets, along with the concentricity. People work on these problems quite extensively. One of the arguments to rotational force distortion and slumping is what is called "paper patching" It is an old method of getting accuracy at distance with lead bullets. They push some of the bullets pretty dang fast only wrapped in paper. I haven't figured out where the limits are ...actually I can't even do much testing at all. But I watch others and try to assist when I can. That is what led me to trying to help make more balanced/concentric lead bullets for moderate rifle speeds. It is a lot of work making the tools and want to get as much knowledge and understanding before I waste time making dies for bullets that have no chance of succeeding.

[@buckdive]

@@SnakePliscan They don't they use precision milled brass rounds I believe so they get the BC they are after

[@SnakePliscan]

@@HansFormerlyTraffer Sounds like there's already a lot of optimization been done, if that leaves precision molding as the road less traveled them maybe it's time for someone (you) to head there. good luck

[@youbetyababy]

Excellent info. Thanks again.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@fordswayF3]

As far as information goes top favorite video of yours! Thank you

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@charlesloveday9208]

As always, another awesome and amazing video... seems to be able to explain most everything in lamens terms. Excellent explanation of the transonic zone!!🤜🤛👊✌️🤙👍👍👍👏👏👏💯💯💯😄

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Charles, Cheers

[@billy19461]

I thought that was a great video and you did great explaining. Keep up the great work Mark.

[@markandsamafterwork]

cheers Billy, thanks

[@roryrohrer7640]

Because of your videos I have started to stretch all my guns out way past what I ever thought I could get to, my next challenge is going to be to get out to 1k yards with a xp-100 in 223 rem its a singal shot bolt action pistol with a 12" barrel. I have already been told by so many about where it goes transonic (600yards) and that as far as I can get to but I truly feel I can get to 1k yards with it. all from your videos has given me confidence in this to even try it

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Eddie, all the best with getting to your 1000, Cheers

[@davidorpwood8433]

yours is the Remington nylon single shot I had a Remington 67 lever 22 nylon stock great rifle .I got my mate a gunsmith to make me a single shot .308 with a 14 inch barrel like your XP 100 but mine had a wooden stock . you can try different powders to make shore it burns in your barrel . we used pistol powders but we were pushing a .308 .with the .223 be very careful .

[@TALLA300CforumZ]

thanks for the new video

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@SocialRegressive]

Great topic. I wish I had heard this before some of my earlier long-range experiments where I had assumed that my bullets were tumbling because of the transition. In my footage I later found out I was just skipping them off the ground. One extra MRAD of elevation and I would have nailed my targets.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Kyle, yes many have been tricked with that one before, glad you liked the video, Cheers and all the best.

[@4739-g9c]

Great explanation. I concur with you sir. I’ve always called bs on the severity of crossing the transonic zone. I wonder what the bc of a jet is. Can’t imagine the hallow aluminum structure has great sectional density.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@ericwilliams2317]

No, but an aircraft has things sticking out of its side & rear (wings & tail) these are what gives it its stability. These days you hear so much about how aircraft, especially fighter aircraft, are naturally very "Unstable" and the onboard computers are making a large number of corrections per second to the surfaces just to keep them in the air.

[@evadevries2952]

Check Rex's explanation on the Sniper 101 series: Center of gravity vs center of resistance. On a bullet the center of resistance is forward of the center of gravity...on an arrow (or a plane) the center of resistance is behind the center of gravity.

[@neckstumping]

Bryan Litz (Berger bullets) bags the 30cal 168 Sierra for not being able to handle transonic flight because of the angle of it's boat tail. Would be interesting if you ever happen to come by some to test them and let us know your results. Thanks again for a great video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Hi, well that bullet I used many years ago and although I did not see that, I did not like the bullet at all, some smk's are a bit average in there design, but I think the tweak them now and then, Cheers

[@johnfox1382]

Always wondered if a bullet slowed rotation speed as it lost forward speed, thanks for the explanation. Happy shooting always.john

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@coltenpulis3347]

fantastic video. thank you

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@EagleEyeShooting]

Excellent breakdown on this. Thank-you. I need help on the subject of bullet tipping. Mainly is it needed??? Have you found it to help at ELR? Deviation in BC effects vertical spread? I recently tested a string of shots through a Oehler 85 and though I have really tight ES numbers at the muzzle, It was recorded BC to deviate from .660 to .740 at 100 yards. Berger 200x20 bullets

[@markandsamafterwork]

I haven't tipped bullets, sorry I don't have any data on that, Cheers

[@mrdarcy5023]

nicely explained Mark.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, Cheers

[@jholbrook75]

Great video!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@luciankristov6436]

Thanks .i now understand the concept

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@cspec5729]

Hi Mark, thanks for the excellent videos. Always worth a watch. My understanding of the early jet plane issues transitioning into super sonic, is that air moving over different parts of the plane ( because of the shape, ie wing tips etc) is going at different speeds and that sonic boom was happening in stages over different parts of the plane as they were approaching it slowly, unsure of what would happen. This caused major instability and vibration. Once they learned to "punch through" this mach 1 phase, the shock wave/boom happened and passed so quickly, it was no longer an issue. When I translate this to a bullet coming back down out of super sonic, the transition is happening in stages along the bullet as it "slowly"drops under mach 1, causing instability and additional drag. Because of the pointed shape, air moving over the bullet is forced to travel at different speeds. Look how air moving over laminar flow on a sub sonic travelling projectile can still break the sound barrier as it has been sped up as it follows and climbs the bullet contour from tip to base. (Smarter every day video) My understanding of why some transition better than others is the subtle differences in ogive/sectional density. Only testing bears the truth...

[@markandsamafterwork]

Hi Chris, well relevant, but not that much, in fact there are some manufactures that focus on just that, but at a cost to both supersonic and subsonic flight efficiencies, they have lower bc's as a price of supposed better accuracy (not something I found with my testing) My comment is, in my testing, the transonic zone is just not that relevant, good stable bullets don't have trouble dealing with it, but test and see for your self, and mainly don't simply blame a larger pattern on the transonic zone when it is more likely something else.....Cheers

[@brad744]

Great Video, great info. Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Cheers

[@ericwilliams2317]

Very good video Mark. I guess its a case of putting the right amount of "spin" on the bullet from the start, especially as there are now so many heavier bullets per caliber, obviously making them longer and more slender / pointier. Is it a case of taking something like a spherical lead ball or even a ball bearing thats uselessly un-aerodynamic, but by its nature, it can't be unstable - as its a sphere. Then if you take a 12'' vinyl LP for instance and put something pointy through the middle and spin it - it'll be stable at quite a slow rpm (say 10 - 20 rpm) but try that same spin rate with say a knitting needle or a pencil, both very aerodynamic , but it'll fall straight over, unless you spin it up very, very fast. I'm hoping that what I'm trapping on about here makes some sort of sense, but its like my .284 F class rig. it likes 180 grain Matchkings, but goes to hell when I put 183 grn MK's through it as they're a good bit longer and slender in shape, but hardly any heavier at just + 3 grains.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Well, spin stability and what is or isn't, is a different topic, and yes lots involved, Cheers

[@TheOnsetHunter]

Thanks for the video, I almost emailed you asking for you to do a video on this. One thing I wish you would have touched on was how a bullet handles getting back on its path; and if to much spin can cause for too much “Yah”

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Cory, and well, I'm saying most don't really get off track, as for spin v yaw and enough v too much spin, that is another conversation, another video down the track, cheers

[@SnakePliscan]

isn't Yah more a function of the bullets center of gravity/weight distribution and spin is the stabilizing force ? I'm thinking a bullet gains yah as it loses velocity ?

[@markandsamafterwork]

Many things involved, and other videos that explain, but will do more it time to come, Cheers

[@brunoterlingen2203]

Mark, I am with you when it comes to centre fire rounds, however the "humble" .22LR (>Mach one) has always been a PIA and by most accounts goes transonic between 40 and 44 metre and thus that humble round shows all sorts of anomalies at that 50 metre target. It is with this in mind that most .22LR target shooters use sub-sonic ammo to achieve consistent results. Needless to say, the .22LR round travelling at or near Mach one, does not have the spin rate of a centre fire projectile, thus stability is already compromised.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@laszlovandor4770]

Fantastic, thanks!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@sbreheny]

Nitpick - the sonic boom is not somehow associated with going transonic. A sonic boom is simply caused by the attached shock wave (on the bullet or aircraft) passing by an observer and being perceived as a sudden pressure pulse. It doesn't just happen when the bullet goes from Mach 0.99 to Mach 1.0 or vice-versa. It is "happening" continuously as it flies at >Mach 1.0 but sounds like a single pulse to an observer because the cone of the shock passes by the observer once.

[@markandsamafterwork]

🤔 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYnXnJeklseilc0 Cheers

[@sbreheny]

@@markandsamafterwork Thanks for the reply. What you are describing (the sound from the attached shock wave reaching the target before the bullet when the bullet slows below the speed of sound) has nothing fundamentally to do with the slowing down. If you could capture or vaporize the bullet in flight while it was still supersonic, this sound would still reach the target even though the bullet was never flying subsonically. You could test this in real life by having a "quiet" target close enough to the rifle that the bullet is still supersonic when it hits and then placing a microphone further down range from the target. You would still hear the sonic boom at the microphone.

[@MrEMrC]

There has to be a Ph.D . with your name on it somewhere! Excellent.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@ashforkdan]

Lodgic over theory to me is common sense. Good job.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Dan, Cheers

[@mladenkrsmanovic5814]

What do you think about ELD Match 168gr 308 win?How does it behave in subsonic speeds?😅 or A tip from Hornady

[@markandsamafterwork]

Not something we use, but in the right combo they would be fine,

[@briankerr4512]

Have you ever shot round balls at long distance ? Like what you might shoot in a musket ? I wonder what a ball out of a rifled gun would do .

[@markandsamafterwork]

Not at all accurate, lol, Cheers

[@bobwiese6128]

Excellent!!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@12deepdiver]

Does this apply to all bullets or are smaller calibre's affected and or is it also a twist rate issue as well as speed.?

[@markandsamafterwork]

As said, it applies to most precision bullets, it also applies to many others, but the only way to know for sure is to test, Cheers

[@jeffreysmith5968]

When you're talking about bullet stability in regards to bullet twist, one of the other factors is velocity. So for building a rifle for ELR (I'm in the planning and research stage currently for a 30 cal) even tho you may have full stability out the barrel (say 245 Berger 30 ca@ 2850 fpsl) the bullet would need a 1-9 twist, but once the bullet slows down to 2750 fps, you start compromising BC due to velocity loss, within 100 yards. With a 1-8 twist, this doesnt happen until 1400 fps @1500 yards, 1-7.5 twist, 900 fps @ 2200+ . Would you see that as a reason to go with a 1-8 or 1-7.5 twist, or would the mechanic shake his head and say I'm looking at the Berger calculators too much, stop living in a mathematical world? Sorry for being long winded, theory vs practicality is something I struggle with.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Nope, as said in the video bullet rpm does not slow down over shot, maybe watch again, all explained, Cheers

[@RecreationalSniper]

I posted in a group about shooting my 16" 308 at ELR distances, and one guy was absolutely adamant about the transonic zone being the cause of my inconsistent hitting capability. For context, we were shooting 1230 and 1798 yards at a 10" plate. At 1230, that is a 0.78 MOA size target, and at 1798, it is a 0.53 MOA size target. I made a point that we were shooting over a valley, which put the max ordinate of the bullets more than 500 feet above the ground in the middle between us and the target. This situation is extremely difficult to get a good call on the wind. I also made a point of the target being in the shade and the ground being wet, which made spotting the misses exceedingly difficult. But he insisted that the misses were caused by instability due to the transonic zone and not any of the other variables. 🤦‍♂️ This person also claims to have an ELR rifle that is a true .25 MOA rifle and that he can hit a 10" target at 1800 yards 10/10. I called his bs and told him to prove it and he quit talking to me. The hits we did make had absolutely no indication of instability.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, cheers

[@tankmeister8131]

I recon a good example would be a key holing bullet at short range Ie i loaded 70 gr speer in a 223 out of a Sako vixen 30% keyhole at 50 m

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, not enough twist, cheers

[@TheUn-namedProject]

Great video. Look at something called dynamic stability. I think that's the point you are trying to get across.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@jefferyking116]

Brilliant

[@markandsamafterwork]

cheers

[@troyreynolds4520]

I wish you had a 50-90 sharps and show us how it's done past 1500 yards with black powder. Have a great day.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, maybe one day, Cheers

[@macgyver5108]

6:14 Mark's finger breaks the transonic zone and buggers his microphone... 😉🤣

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@macgyver5108]

@@markandsamafterwork I had no idea you were such a strong bloke!

[@sterlingwilkey2124]

Mark you should change your name to ""Yoda"" all wise and all knowing You can explain it how someone as less knowledgeable can understand it. Awesome video

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@triptideom]

Makes sense. Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@dragonflyfab8982]

What would happen if Hornaday would make instead of ATip bullit would make a bullit with a tungsten tip.

[@markandsamafterwork]

As in all things, it is a lot more complicated than just changing 1 component, it would require a complete re-design, and you would have consider, they put more than a little thought into the design they already have.....Cheers

[@ericwilliams2317]

Wouldn't that make it a bit "nose heavy" and totally changing the actual balance of the projectile. I would imagine that you would have to spin the bullet even faster to cancel that out.....But I may be wrong??

[@DeeMoback]

Shoot elr with 30-30?

[@markandsamafterwork]

Sure, Cheers

[@davidorpwood8433]

WHEN A PROJECTILE LEAVES THE BARREL AT 3000 FPS IN A 1 IN 10" TWIST IT STILL HAS IT SPIN .SO WHEN IT SLOWS DOWN TO 1000 FPS IT IS SPINNING 3 TIMES IN THE 10" TRAVEL FORWARD .

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, well almost, Cheers

[@davidorpwood8433]

@@markandsamafterwork YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN . THANK YOU . PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE ME. THAT'S why they don't tumble or just fall .

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@thespectator2976]

Im a Mech atleast 28 years :) and also a shotter :) Not as great as you are, but i understand the shooting somehow :)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@samstewart4807]

Hi, I am a wanna be paper puncher.( lol you know this) I think I have watched every video you made.I think there is only 1 video you made I did not understand/ agree with. (shame on me lol) I think this is another one of your excellent videos. Here is my question- Do you think/ know the ability of the bullet to "spin true' aka not wobble/tumble is based on the bullets 'balance'? aka the bullets' center of gravity? To me it seems that if the nose of the bullet was too heavy or the tail of the bullet was too heavy the bullet would not "spin well". What are your thoughts/ exp. on this bullet balance issue?????????.AND are the current bullet ballistic programs able to show this balance/imbalance? Which bullet ballistic program do you like best? Thanks for putting up with me- sam

[@markandsamafterwork]

Well Sam, you can make it for more complicated by trying to understand balance and why, my point is to keep it simple, trust in the basics the manufactures tell you, recommended twist, then test to what suits you (go out and shoot) and the point of this video, is don't worry about the transonic zone causing instability, it largely does not. So if it shoots well at 100 - 500 yards, it will shoot well, out a lot further, Cheers

[@samstewart4807]

@@markandsamafterwork ok, thanks.

[@borisj4054]

The only thing I have experienced with bullets transiting the supersonic to subsonic speed is the rate of de acceleration of the bullet. 60 Gs of force super sonic reducing to far less subsonic. The effect, is the predicted trajectory changes. Bullet point of impact is higher. Reduced milradians. With my 300 WinMag at 1610 meters require an actual 19 milradian dialup instead of the predicted 24 milradian from the ballistic computer.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Ah, well, no that would be what you are seeing, you got other things going on there, keep looking, Cheers

[@jochenstoll7181]

👍🏻

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@LoLreality1]

Maybe you have stuff to learn ... yes please and thank you

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@dragonflyfab8982]

What if Hornaday would have made Tungsten tip bullets instead of Aluminum. Barrel twist and transgenic speed wouldnt matter much at all. But we'd all be in jail.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, doesn't work like that, balance is very important, cheers

[@hlalakar4156]

Transonic is sonic the hedgehog's nonbinary cousin

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol

[@pinecone5058]

Could you explain that again in English, lol, had no idea that extreme long range shooting had that much mathematical and scientific data involved, thank you

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, gets so much more scientific than that, but hope that stuff still helps, Cheers

[@ericwilliams2317]

And some.