The TRIAL OF SOCRATES - Corruption and Atheism: The Apology by Plato - Harvard Classics Rev- HC2 Ep4

[@scottmorschhauser4421]

Excellent job sir. I really enjoyed The Apology and always marvel at how writings so old can seem so fresh and prescient. The more things change the more they stay the same indeed.

[@The_Cause]

I feel the same way. It amazes me how relevant stories and writing 2000+ years old can still be impactful and hold meaning. It like technology advances and changes but the expansion of our minds has honestly not changed that much. We solve external issues quickly but internal ones we still struggle with. Thanks so much for watching and stay blessed my friend!

[@The_Cause]

Hope you enjoyed this episode! What are your thoughts on the trial of Socrates?

[@Tfwest9337]

This story, and the Crito, always makes me think about dying - Because Socrates could have chosen to live I think, but he deliberately provokes the jurors and argues in a way that annoys them, and then refuses to escape. Socrates lets himself be killed, almost like suicide maybe. It always made me wonder - If one could go back in time and convince Socrates to save himself, would you do it? I think maybe, that by dying, Socrates did a lot more for us than he would have for living for a few more years.

[@mikecook_author]

I first read The Apology in Psychology 101. It never gets old and I learn something each time I review it. I think that is the litmus test for great literature: it speaks different truths when read through more experienced eyes.

[@klosnj11]

I enjoyed it! I have not yet read it, but I listened to a reading of it. (Not the same, as far as I am concerned.) You are doing important work here. Keep it up.

[@JoaquinRoibal]

@Tfwest9337 What's interesting about your second question, regarding convincing Socrates, the "Crito" dialogue tackles this exact question, and Crito addresses this question, and Socrates explains why he will stay. I do agree with your characterizations, that in some ways it's "suicidal", but also he was able to trade his last few years for a certain type of immortality where we still discuss him today. I do agree that his initial defense was in some ways provocative, but also it's what he believed and he stuck true to it, and in the end the vote was very close to 50%/50% (of 500+ jurors) and today we have the requirement of a fully convinced 12 jury panel.

[@w1zzk1dd]

14:00 "the unexamined life is not worth living" this could be looked at from multiple perspective and you give a holistic pov, now we could also look at it from a more individual pov, if we examine our life, frame by frame (like how anime are made), we may see its not worth living as some may be abusive to others or even family members but treat outsiders good, they may rip other people off and the likes..

[@The_Cause]

I can see that. I think there are always exceptions to the vast majority of cases. Often times I try to generalize and then I will focus on the outlier where the focus should not be at all. In general I think a constant examination of life can be simply described as meditation or prayer time. But I agree, it is hard for someone who has been trafficked and abused to examine the situation they are in if there is no escaping the situation. Sad situation and all to common in this life.

[@w1zzk1dd]

@@The_Cause definitely

[@victorslach2384]

Thank you. I love this 9:30 "It doesn't matter about death, you shouldn't be scared about death if it's somthing that's righteous that you should do should be doing. There are a few times in life when you get the chance to be unashamedly brave, when you realize that the decision to be honest and truthful in the face of death, allows you to die with an honor, that not many people in life are given the opportunity to experience." I have a hard time accepting my death and I found that one powerful. Have a nice day !

[@The_Cause]

I think we all deep down fear death as most of us fear what is unknown. Having the right mindset going into the unknown is what Socrates seems to point out as important. I liked that section of the books as well. Thanks so much for watching and I hope you have a blessed weekend as well!

[@stretmediq]

These are books that should be read more than once

[@The_Cause]

Yes indeed! At different points in life as well. I have noticed what I read at the age of 20 contains a completely different meaning when read again at 35.

[@JoaquinRoibal]

I read this at age 19, and understood it at a very superficial level. Now, re reading it at 37, based upon my life experience the text has a completely different meaning and I can see Socrates much more as a person--which makes the entire book that much more impactful--than just a detached "idea" of a person who lived 2400 years ago.

[@RRScott-uz1lg]

I'm just beginning my reading and discovery of the Apologia. This was a great introduction. You've given me good grounding to know what I'll get from this work and I appreciate your thoughts.

[@The_Cause]

Glad to hear! It is a foundational work in my opinion. So many other works in philosophy and western literature reference or expect you to know of the apology of Socrates and what he died for. I’m sure you will come away with your own ideas after finishing it as these books will definitely expand your view on things. It feed for me at least. Thanks so much for watching and stay blessed!

[@mikecook_author]

Great overview of The Apology. I highly recommend everyone read it. Due to your videos I have been looking for my own set of Harvard Classics.

[@The_Cause]

That’s awesome! I hope you find a set! It took me awhile to finally find a set for a decent price. Truly appreciate you watching and have a blessed new year!

[@mikecook_author]

@@The_Cause in the mean time, I downloaded the Kindle Harvard Classics Reader's Guide to a Liberal Education which links to each volume via the Internet Archive. The AI-generated audio is trash so I’ll appreciate the hardcopy books even more.

[@1voluntaryist]

To get a full analysis of what Socrates probably meant by the youth being corrupted, read, Ayn Rand's, "The Comprachicos". It's still going on today, everywhere and it's horrible.

[@The_Cause]

Thanks so much for the recommendation. I read The Fountainhead about 7 years ago and although it took forever to make it through I really appreciated her style of writing. Hopefully The Comprachicos is shorter! Lol I will definitely check it out though. Thanks so much for watching and stay blessed my friend!

[@Thinking_Ape_Plus_Clothes]

Completely recognise your point about how we’ve come so far technologically but, from a psychological perspective, we are exactly where we are 2,500 years ago. We might know more about the brain, development, behavioural psychology but we still struggle with really simple concepts like logic, reason, morality, virtues, etc. Maybe we need a Surak (for any Star Trek fans out there)

[@The_Cause]

Yes indeed. I have been thinking a lot about this as I read through these old books. We are literally still facing the same internal issues they faced. The external world has changed completely but internally not much has progressed. I see some progression but not to keep up with the pace the external world has progressed. Thanks so much for watching my friend!

[@khwarizmatic437]

Please check Exposing the Myth of Modernity / Doctrine of Progress by Imam Tom Facchine on Blogging Theology And The Crisis of Modern Consciousness by Tim Winter/Abdal Hakim Murad ... I believe you would not be disappointed ...! God bless...! 😊👍👍👊👊👊🙌🙌🙌💯💯

[@khwarizmatic437]

This is exactly like the points being made in the short talk on "Exposing the Myths of Modernity/Doctrine of Progress" by Imam Tom Facchine on a youtube channel called 'Blogging Theology' by Paul Williams - they're discussing Prof Wael Hallaq's (Columbia Univ) book on Islamic Law, "The Impossible State". It is also like John Gray's philosophy on the Myths of Progress... And Abdal Hakim Murad's talk "The Crisis of Modern Consciousness".. ("We have become wide-eyed, but we don't see much..")... God bless all! 👊👊👊💪🙌🙌🙌💯💯😊

[@JoaquinRoibal]

@Thinking_Ape_Plus_Clothes @The_Cause what's interesting is, I don't think it's necessarily a criticism of the Human Condition the fact that there is "something" (soul, humanity) that connects us through 2400 years of external changes. I believe there has been some "progress" and growth of understanding in the important concepts of Logic, Reasoning, Morality, Virtues, but these are timeless concepts which adapt through out time but something remains consistent about these ideas in different situations and times as well. I find the "Thinking Ape Plus Clothes" to be exactly what we are discussing here, our "clothes" (exterior world, technology, computers, cell phones, etc) have changed, but in many ways we are still connected to Socrates of 2400 years ago, but also apes from 24 million years ago.

[@MikeBuechele]

The amazing thing is, the court didn't want to kill him. They expected him to confess, apologise, and then they expected to exile him. But Socrates wouldn't do it and forced the court to sentence him to death.

[@The_Cause]

Good point. I was thinking the other day after reading more into "democracies" that he was killed by a majority vote. Another good point to consider that Plato may have been trying to convey. Thanks so much for watching and sharing my friend!

[@grus-philoamericana5694]

Enjoyed the video, Rob! 11:20 Rene Girard has some interesting work on scapegoating cycles in the Judeo-Christian tradition. He also comments on Socrates along with other indigenous mythologies. Keep it up!

[@MarkSwanYVR]

Rob, I’ve really been enjoying your videos having discovered them a few weeks back. Keep up the great work and all the best for a Happy New Year!

[@The_Cause]

Truly appreciate hearing that Mark! I am really enjoying this series and looking forward to making the rest of them. Have a blessed new year as well!

[@RobPirieCedarOtaCoffee]

Keep slinging them out Rob!

[@austinrucker3853]

Two books I would recommend for examination and plato would be Fr. Timothy Gallaghers, the Examen prayer, and Dr. Peter Kreefts philosophy 101.

[@The_Cause]

I’m def going to have to look into those. Did you read these in school or something?

[@w1zzk1dd]

#11:55 not sure if you know but the Islamic Prophet Muhammad ﷺ had these same things where the state wanted him to keep quiet and even offer him wealth, kingdom, woman and everything a man could desire yet refuse

[@The_Cause]

I am not real familiar with Islam but later in the Harvard Classics series the Quran is introduced so looking forward to learning more about that.

[@w1zzk1dd]

@@The_Cause ooh interesting, looking forward to it

[@tjsurname119]

Brilliant observations. Thank you.

[@The_Cause]

Appreciate the kind words brother!

[@jimmyhill9743]

Very interesting, awesome work

[@The_Cause]

Truly appreciate it brother! Means a lot!

[@andrewarmacost]

Rob keeps including catchy songs in the background but hasn’t posted a playlist. Does anyone have this ?

[@The_Cause]

I will have to look at my files but it is either Terry Grant - Brooklyn. The other one Hello Good Morning is only available on Musicbed. I will look them all up and add them to the descriptions of the video. I did not expect the songs to be asked about so much! haha Thanks for watching and stay blessed!

[@Arif-r3p5r]

I don't think "corruption of youth" have ever been this critical/threatening as of now. Saying something about this is even frowned upon if you haven't got cancelled or jailed already. Anyway, thanks for the videos. I really enjoyed your take on Apologia.

[@JoaquinRoibal]

I agree that the Apology really demonstrates Socrates' courage in the face of a trial with the potential d*ath penalty, and in this text specifically I saw a naive and blind optimism that the jury (500 Athenians) could be convinced, through logic and reasoning, of Socrates' innocence of the charges and validation of philosophy, logic, and reasoning within Society. Ultimately we see the jury convict by a very narrow margin (I believe Socrates states that it's less than 10% difference), which also shows why in America it must be a unanimous jury, but also I see the jury's decision as ultimately a condemnation and commentary of the role of philosophy in Society. I do agree that within Crito we see Socrates' devotion to his own city / state, its government, and ultimately the laws which are condemning him to d*ath. What's interesting to me about Euthyphro, Apology, and Crito, is that Socrates lays out many of the most important questions regarding government, power, society, justice, and many more fundamental topics in a way that lays out these areas in an introductory manner and now have been discussed and developed for the past 2400 years. These topics are more relevant than ever as they become more and more developed, society changes and grows, and the business and government continues to grow.

[@RanmaSyaoranSaotome]

My god that AI art at 2:13 is horrifying

[@The_Cause]

Easy my friend! Who has that much animosity at 2:13am? Haha It’s all good. I am not a fan of it myself. Going to update these thumbnails one day when I have some time. Truly appreciate the feedback though. Honestly do. Have a blessed week buddy!

[@zesky6654]

​@@The_CauseI love your content, please don't use AI art. It's a blemish on the video's.

[@EyeLean5280]

Thank you for your commentary on this, I really enjoyed it. I agree the Apology is a masterpiece but regarding the trial, we do need to remember the larger context here... Socrates had made the mistake of, if not obviously supporting Critias, at least of failing to resist his rather bloody tyranny in any way when others had taken the risk and resisted. Critias was a former pupil who, along with the rest of the 30 tyrants, presided over an honest-to-goodness reign of terror (Critias has been described as "the first Robespierre"). During the tyranny, Socrates's personal conduct was _very_ weaksauce. He knew the reign of terror was wrong but did and said nothing against it, even going so far as to simply go home when ordered to take part in an unjust arrest, rather than trying to get word to the victim to flee. But of course the more violent Critias and the 30 became, the stronger the resistance became and eventually the tyrants were overthrown. Once it was all over and democracy restored, it was forbidden to put anyone on trial (other than the 30 tyrants themselves) for prior shady political connections and this would include Socrates. So, yeah, the citizenry brought trumped-up BS charges against Socrates but the underlying beef they had with him was very, very real.

[@EyeLean5280]

PS: Do I think Socrates deserved the death penalty for his weakness? No, I don't. And I don't think the majority of Athenians did, either. That was the danger of the charges brought against him. They probably expected him to put on a better defense, especially in the sentencing phase, and end up in exile instead of execution - but Socrates didn't want to let them get away with that. He was basically saying, "if you bring BS charges, I'll make sure you're going to have the BS outcome they imply."

[@The_Cause]

I think what you bring up here, at least from my point of view, is that it is hard to understand these books fully, unless you understand the history and times surrounding them. The more I learn, and the more people like you chime in, the more the story starts to piece itself together. The problem now days is when we studied Greek culture in school we read some Mythology, watched the Disney Hercules and moved on to the next subject. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. This helped me understand these dialogues better!

[@w1zzk1dd]

I'd say modern day Socrates (speaking the truth openly, urging others to think for them, would be Andre tate, I'm not a crazy fan of him but I do respect him for those things

[@The_Cause]

Exactly. I feel anyone who has been “canceled” kind of fits the modern day version. Jordan Peterson, Rogan and others.

[@w1zzk1dd]

@@The_Cause mhm true

[@khwarizmatic437]

Everyone please see Exposing the Myth of Modernity / Doctrine of Progress by Imam Tom Facchine on Blogging Theology God bless thanks all ...! 🙌🙌🙌💪💪💪👍👍👍👊👊💯💯💯

[@The_Cause]

I will have to check it out. What do you enjoy most about the book? Thanks for watching and stay blessed!