The Trinity Defined and Refuted - by Sean Finnegan

[@janflorovic4512]

Your argumentation is wonderful, you're using my language I use with trinitarians, and you even do with deeper historical details than I do. I appropriate all your clear and logical arguments.

[@Yce_Take]

John states loud and clear: a spirit that denies that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh is Antichrist. Can’t get any clearer than that.

[@mr.e1220]

This is a very good explanation of why the doctrine of the "trinity" is not only logically a false teaching and nonsensical, but even more importantly it is 100% unbiblical.

[@michaelbruce9197]

Don’t blame me for not knowing your Bible.

[@syamhm.5744]

maybe not 100% Will 99.99% do?

[@AstariahJW]

@@michaelbruce9197 hah if people were not brainwash to bielieve in the trinity then that person would not read any trinity ideas in the bible

[@michaelbruce9197]

@@AstariahJW very true. I tell them that the Bible says no man can see God and live but they don’t care they need their God man like a drug

[@AstariahJW]

@@michaelbruce9197 Jehovah God is to powerfull. If we see him we would die . Even if he set foot on earth. The earth will evaporate After all he created the sun . It's in a perfect distance to support life if it was just a tad off we would not be able to live 1 kings 8:27 But will God really dwell on the earth? Look! The heavens, yes, the heaven of the heavens, cannot contain you; how much less, then, this house that I have built!

[@abdulmalikahmad893]

Excellent and intelligent presentation full of convincing facts, no hidden places for triniterians

[@khalidyacob1937]

@Chris Cuomo Allah of The Quraan states: 6:102 Such is GOD your Lord, there is no god except He, the Creator of all things. You shall worship Him alone. He is in control of all things.. Based on what you claim, this is also the teaching of the lucifer of the Bible. Hence the God of the Bible will say the opposite which would be associate partners with God in your worship of God. If the Allah of the Quraan states: 17:32: And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.. Based on your claim this is the teaching of the lucifer of the Bible, hence, the God of the bible encourages adultrey.. Gods teachings are the opposite of lucifer's. If Allah of the Quraan states:O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both.” [Quran, 4:135]. This is the teaching of the lucifer of the Bible, so the God of the Bible teaches that should stand firm for injustice according to your claim. I can go on quoting examples, but these 3 do suffice. I do know about showing the other cheek which interprets as accepting injustice and tyranny, in fact, showing the other cheek interprets as encouraging injustice and oppression. Matthew 5:38-40 Eye for Eye 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

[@littleandre4957]

That's a good one because Elohim has become a substance to trinitarians.

[@NP-29]

Am I the only one or is there anyone else who gets angry, hearing the "logic" with which we have been misled by the trinitarians? when so clearly, so many times, it is emphasized in the Bible that Jesus is a man, and God is one, God the Father. How did I not notice this until now? I'm starting to question everything I've heard. I'm glad I found this youtube channel.

[@jamiesimms7084]

*True and God is also called a father or the father but never God the father.* *There is nothing (NOTHING) to distinguish God's character from his self but trinitarian propaganda would argue things like John 1,* (which if you read and understand makes no sense and is self contradictory for trinitarian doctrine) *convenient uses of plural words* (as opposed to the many times when non-plural words contradict this illusion) *and instances of where and how the word worship is used* (whilst ignoring any context and translation issues that conflict with this doctrine) *to try and insert the doctrine of 3 people in one God which is absolutely crazy. There's no three people in one God concept in the Bible regardless of any of the trickery used above. It's like sneaking in multiple God worship through the back door.*

[@fp1402]

Sean that was an outstanding presentation! I appreciate your hard work and dedication. Although your points are planted firmly in logical ground, the greatest difficulty to overcome will always be the emotional component of the belief in the Trinity. The church I grew up in taught that if I were able to believe in something that is an impossible "mystery" then that is proof that my faith is greater. Reason and emotion rarely meet in the middle. Even the most logical, rational, and reasonable argument might not even begin to pry away at the emotional grasp to which someone may cling. Keep up the good work. God bless.

[@guyvanvolkinburg824]

@vanilla thunda 1st great name, lol. By your explanation of emotion and reason, yes your absolutely right that emotion and reason rarely ever meet in the middle, but when presented the overwhelming facts as in this video, due to emotion and reason being on opposite ends then cognitive dissonance is what takes place and this undoubtedly happens when facing the facts of truth in the bible regarding the trinity.

[@carolpastorino8208]

Remember religion won’t save you. You are responsible for your own salvation

[@logicianbones]

This old video came up today in recommendations and I've been looking for better anti-Trinitarian arguments to test as I as a Trinitarian don't want to ever assume I've heard them all, but yeah, I can't find anything logically grounded here, I don't know what you're talking about. I took live notes on every point and all rested on bald assertion, circular reasoning, and even self-refutation.

[@logicianbones]

The Trinity definitely is complicated so I totally understand where he's coming from, but with all due respect to him and other anti- / non-Trinitarians, I don't think any of you guys (appear to?) ever really do your homework to understand it. The main things I see consistently missed are:

[@logicianbones]

1) We don't say co-equality means in every sense they're the same. Obviously they have some role differences or what we might call "personality" (hence "Person") -- and that INCLUDES a rank difference. I predicted when I saw the title that it would make this mistake and it did; strawmanning (despite what I hope were the best intentions not to, stated at the start).

[@rabanichoudhary]

One step closer to the ultimate truth of His oneness

[@eflint1]

Yes, oneness with his Son from Nazareth.

[@qkb3128]

John 17

[@abdollahgilani4119]

You are telling the truth.

[@akachristian]

An eXcellent message of TRUTH!! ThanX you Sean and Praise You Father God!!

[@rayorichard8175]

amen sis, my thoughts also ... just finished listening again & will be planning on playing this one soon in Bible study!

[@akachristian]

@@rayorichard8175 would love to hear this again!!

[@Ranger1985.]

Great video brother. Thank you for teaching this. The 'experts' got it wrong!

[@ar.suhaimihashim8080]

There are those who think n reason with facts and there are those who blindly accept n wud not want to change!!

[@originalhigene]

Hello Sean Finnegan, Eugene here. Thanks for all your work that has helped us know the truth. I read someone's comments somewhere, I don't remember where but it was very helpful. The point made was that Trinitarians tell us that If Jesus was not God then the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was for nothing, because only God could satisfy the price demanded for out sins. We are told that the death of a human was insufficient. THEN, we are told that God the Son, who came from Heaven and entered the womb of Mary and the human body she produced, while remaining God the Son, DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS. They say that because they know God can't die. But what they don't seem to realize is that they are saying that only a human body died, exactly what they said was insufficient. I had not thought of that.

[@DaDitka]

Your last couple of sentences strike me very well. I too have heard that a human being could not serve as a proper sacrifice for sin, yet they then say that only the human side of Jesus died. That is very interesting and I will need to make a note of that. Thank you.

[@RodMartinJr]

Eugene, very nicely said. What is even more incredible is the fact that the Big Elephants in the room are completely ignored or glossed over. One of those involves the reason why blaspheming against God and Christ can be forgiven, but blaspheming against the Holy Spirit can never be forgiven. Answering this destroys trinity. For only spirit can enter Heaven. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@jimwinchester339]

You have arrived at precisely the requirement for his special conception, pursuant to the enigmatic phrase "seed of the woman" in Genesis 3 (and enlarged upon briefly in one of the gospels). Study Hebrews 2:14: the two "partake" verbs are not the same: the first, 'koinoneo', means to share fully. The latter, 'methecho', means to take a part only. Jesus had to be a human, but one not under Satan's jurisdicition (as all others descended from Adam are), so that his offered life did have full redemptive value for mankind. Those who posit that only God could redeem man have completely ignored Paul's entire argument in Romans 5, culminating in v.19b, "... so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous". [Don't get too excited about the missing "man", other verses - including others right in Romans 5 - assuredly testify Jesus was a man]

[@originalhigene]

@@jimwinchester339 Jim Winchester, Eugene here. I think that the "special conception" resulted in the creation of the "second Adam" who like the first Adam was made from "Earthly stuff", that is, his Earthly Mother, and the life "Ruach" of Elohim. "Mother Earth" and Elohim. What do you think about that idea?

[@logicianbones]

I see a simple and apparently fatal problem with this argument -- it also requires that humans would have to completely cease to exist in order to "die totally" -- and soul-sleep-ists notwithstanding, Jesus weighs in on this and says to the repentant thief on the cross that "today" they would dine in paradise.

[@clagle9899]

Anytime you present Jesus's words not being able to do things without the Father, they just respond with" that's Jesus human nature, not his God nature". Oyve.

[@RodMartinJr]

Perhaps a better argument is to start with a question: How is it that blaspheming against God and Christ are forgivable, but blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not? The answer destroys trinity! For placing the true spiritual self on a pedestal *_as_* God is indeed blasphemy, but with the twist that it prevents the healing or salvation of the very thing that needs divine forgiveness -- the only thing that can enter Heaven! Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@lizzard13666]

Tell them to read the Chalcedonian Creed, it states that are not allowed to divide Jesus' alleged 2 natures! Therefore, according to Chalcedonian Creed, anyone attempting to suggest that only Jesus' human nature died, is a heretic.

[@logicianbones]

Um, no. That's very common, I get why you might think it but this is also what an eternally literally personified trait of God would do (JP Holding's sense of "hypostasis"), and the NT many times uses of Jesus phrases and terms used of Wisdom in OT and intertestamental literature to signal that the NT authors did understand him this way. It's natural to biblical Trinitarianism.

[@logicianbones]

@@RodMartinJr Not sure what your point is; the fact that this makes the Spirit a distinct person from Christ is part of Trinitarian arguments (not all Unitarians make them the same, but pre-NT Jews did make the Hand/Spirit and Angel of the Lord the same, and Jesus is identified with the latter).

[@logicianbones]

@@RodMartinJr The reason for blasphemy against the Spirit is defined by Jesus in the surrounding verses, including what the "therefore" refers back to, and about the "the nature of the tree" metaphor he uses soon after. Just go read it; basically those who reject salvation (don't have indwelling Spirit) commit evil forever.

[@cafeespresso99]

Trinitarians depict God as a three-headed monster. Astaghfirullah.

[@mitadema761]

No need give your comment here bcoz im understand you in misunderstandings..

[@lwmaynard5180]

It's a bipolar Fairy theory that one is to persistently Query ? ?

[@RodMartinJr]

Declaring "trinity" to be a "mystery" so that it cannot be questioned is very much like Orwellian Doublethink -- cramming logical impossibilities into a claim of fact and expecting people to be okay with that insanity. As a method of *_control,_* it works, but is inherently evil. Christ said that all we need to do is to Ask and we will receive! He did *_not_* say, Ask and sometimes you will receive, or, ...you will receive if God feels like it. So, understanding bypasses their "mystery" by receiving directly from God that for which we ask.

[@logicianbones]

Not what we're saying. We're saying you can't just ASSUME it's false just because you don't fully understand every detail. (The ANTI-Trinitarian, pardon caps for emphasis that survives in .txt backups, is the one saying that it's only because you don't understand how it's possible that therefore it's a "logical impossibility." No actual logic has yet been given to that end that I can find?)

[@logicianbones]

In other words it's really the anti-Trinitarians here who are basing something on mystery, not us. When there's a detail a biblical Christian doesn't understand, we 1) obey the commands to test everything and do research to try to find out, 2) don't assume anything, and 3) don't reject a conclusion that has sound support elsewhere, like Trinitarianism does.

[@logicianbones]

I also have to say it's very concerning to see self-proclaimed Christians acting like an admonition to respect that God knows more than you is somehow evil -- because the Bible itself does this. That's where we got the saying "mystery" from here; "God works in mysterious ways." I get it when anti-biblicists like fundy atheists use this argument but Christians shouldn't!

[@RodMartinJr]

@@logicianbones Who's "we?" Do you speak for ALL Trinitarians? I know for a certainty that you do not! So, stop implying that you do. My grandfather was a Southern Baptist minister and missionary to Africa -- a Trinitarian. And I received an earful of the mystery angle. My wife is Catholic, her brother is a Catholic priest, and I have received an earful of the mystery thesis from Catholics who are also Trinitarians. Apparently, you have not thoroughly studied the issue, for there are no "Jesus as God" proof texts which are not ambiguous (they have more than one interpretation). To my knowledge, however, there are many verses which are not ambiguous which proclaim that Jesus is *_not_* God. In a recent conversation, one Trinitarian offered the verse where Jesus tells a disciple that because they have seen him, they have seen the Father. This does not make Jesus into God for two potent reasons. The first is that there is an alternate interpretation. Instead of *_identity,_* the statement is one of *_agency!_* Christ is a representative of God -- his trusted servant or ambassador. The second involves the details of the verse -- the fact that the Trinitarian's logic would have Jesus be the "Father," for the word used is "father," not "God." After the resurrection, Jesus tells a follower not to touch him, for he has not yet returned to "your Father and my Father, your God and my God." He did not say, "I have not yet returned to myself who is God." And your last comment is a bit of a straw man argument. I have not known any Christian who ever said such a thing, so your generalization is false. Yes, God works in mysterious ways, but does that mean we cannot ask for understanding? And therein lies a deeper problem. Biblical literalist believers (all Trinitarians, as far as I know) imply that they have achieved full knowledge of scripture and its intent, because of "easy literalism." Yet, 2 Corinthians 3.3-8 warns against relying on the "ink," and recommends instead the *_spirit_* of scripture which is NOT in the ink. Because we are not omniscient, and likely won't be so long as we remain on this side of the Narrow Gate, we should remain perpetually humble, for there will always be more to learn. Christ said that many are called, but few chosen. One might tie the failure to be chosen to the most common trait of the 2.5 billion Christians -- Trinitarianism. But I suspect that it could, more likely be a more silent and popular viewpoint -- that of sedentary certainty -- a lack of humility to God and to His meaning, conflating the interpretations of man with those of God.

[@jamiesimms7084]

​@@logicianbonesNo I don't think so reading the Bible didn't lead me to the Trinity and if you weren't taught it, neither would you

[@jesusvdelgado5401]

No one can refute the doctrine of the trinity....

[@SaraitBenjamin]

Serious, you must be arrogantly blinded by your prejudices. Christianity is a false religion, your bible is not revelation, its corrupted, cintrudictions, forever progresively changed? Your bible is man written, from heresay, from copies of thousands of copies each bringing its own changes, and fraud to the book? Sorry bro, hope you can live with yourself.

[@greyghostrider5622]

God can

[@fromanabe8639]

Why do trinitarians settle for just three persons? Why not five or seven?

[@HawkLad]

Technically the trinity has four considering Jesus has two himself, the Demi-god person of Jesus, and the full god, in heaven, person of Jesus.

[@m.-9615]

@@HawkLad couldn't have said it better, I've been saying for years that the trinity is more of a quaternity.

[@DaDitka]

@@m.-9615 Most of the English translations of the Bible read that "the spirit of Jesus would not allow them to (enter Bithynia)" (see Acts 16:7). Since they say that the "spirit of God" is the third person of the trinity, it is fair to say that they spirit of Jesus is the fourth person of the trinity. So yes, at least four person make up one God. I don't know about you, but my head hurts... Lol

[@m.-9615]

@@DaDitka If we were to give a copy of the bible to someone who has never been exposed to Christianity, there is no way on earth they can read it cover to cover and find the Trinitarian creed in there. Trinitarianism is nothing more than an oral tradition with no recorded documentation linking directly to Jesus Christ. The trinitarians try to impose their beliefs on the bible, so nothing is stopping them from adding more illogical stuff to the narrative. "Just have faith", they say. And if you fail to have this faith, it means that the holy spirit is not within you.

[@fromanabe8639]

@@noha8235 Wonderful. It's too bad more so-called "Christians" don't do some investigation rather than just accepting their church's doctrine on the trinity. Brother Kel on his KZbin channel "Trinity Delusion" has many videos discussing all aspects of the "trinity".

[@blackiebori]

Sean, I disagree with you. You _ARE_ an expert on the Trinity!

[@RodMartinJr]

Yes! He is an expert, yet we can all keep learning more, if we remain humble to God and hungry for His wisdom. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@logicianbones]

I have to disagree since he 1) doesn't know the difference between separation and distinction -- that's pretty basic to Trinity -- 2) doesn't seem to know about Wisdom theology which undercuts the vast majority of his criticisms, and 3) doesn't know Trinitarianism doesn't mean NO differences in rank by "co-equal" and has always said the Father is the authority within the Godhead.

[@jamiesimms7084]

​@@logicianbonesjust make up more nonsense to stick to a false belief. The Trinity is the fake belief

[@fencefirst2722]

Great stuff

[@m.-9615]

I've just found this channel and subscribed. I'm not a Christian, but I'm intrigued by the Unitarian followers of Jesus, peace be upon him. I have just a few questions, I'm not sure whether they have been discussed in other videos. Do you believe Jesus died for our sins? And what is your interpretation of the Holy Spirit?

[@breambo3835]

These people are heretics, they don’t believe in the eternal deity of Jesus Christ. This is the Arian heresy of the 4th century avoid them.

[@m.-9615]

@@breambo3835 I don't believe in Jesus being a deity either.

[@breambo3835]

@@m.-9615 1 Tim 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh. 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess [a]that Jesus [b]Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. Then you are an antichrist and part of Satan, as the bible states.

[@m.-9615]

@@breambo3835 Thank you for your response. The second verse you mentioned (1 John 4:3) doesn't show any thing relating to the divinty of Jesus Christ. It just says that Jesus has come in the flesh and we all came in the flesh, right? So that verse would actually be working against your claim. The other verse you cite (1 Tim 3:16) is indeed speaking of God Himself. I'd have to read up on the verses before and the verses after to see in what context this is said. From your text i see that it says "manifest", so that could also refer to the message of God being manifested in the flesh through Jesus, but also through others like Abraham, Moses, Noah etc.

[@AstariahJW]

@@breambo3835 the diety of christ through out the bible is son of God and thats what we are to bieleve. There Is no God the son or eternal son of God . Jesus was Gods first creation by God that's why jesus is only begotten son of God . Jesus Is only one created directly by Jehovah God. Everything else was created through jesus

[@SteveLeeder]

Love your work Sean

[@emmanuelsalomon8954]

In Acts 10:25-26 Peter refused to accept being worship. Rev 19:9-10 the angel refused to be worshipped, God must be worship. Matthew 4:9-10 Jesus said worship only God. So, according to the Bible DO NOT WORSHIP Human, Angel or Created beings. Now in the following verses: Matthew 2:2, 2:11, 8:11, 9:18, 14:33, 15:25, 20:20, 28:9, 28:17, Mark 5:6, 15:9, Luke 24:52. Jesus Christ was worshipped by people and He received and accepted the worship. According to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation only God can be worship, you Mr. Finnegan as a Unitarian do not believe that Jesus Christ is not God. Then explain why the worship was accepted and received by Jesus Christ. who is lying now? YOU or JESUS CHRIST!

[@ayengobenjamin8014]

Well put up. God bless u

[@emmanuelsalomon8954]

In Acts 10:25-26 Peter refused to accept being worship. Rev 19:9-10 the angel refused to be worshipped, God must be worship. Matthew 4:9-10 Jesus said worship only God. So, according to the Bible DO NOT WORSHIP Human, Angel or Created beings. Now in the following verses: Matthew 2:2, 2:11, 8:11, 9:18, 14:33, 15:25, 20:20, 28:9, 28:17, Mark 5:6, 15:9, Luke 24:52. Jesus Christ was worshipped by people and He received and accepted the worship. According to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation only God can be worship, you Mr. Finnegan as a Unitarian do not believe that Jesus Christ is not God. Then explain why the worship was accepted and received by Jesus Christ. who is lying now? YOU or JESUS CHRIST!

[@mr.e1220]

I frequently come to this video. This is a classic for me. Some thing I noticed that was ridiculous about the trinity is the people that teach it believe that Jesus was in the garden of Eden the Jesus was the one that appeared and wrestled with Jake up that Jesus is the one that was speaking but Hebrews says that God didn’t speak through his son until the last days. So was the second person of their made up Trinity totally silent? Also they have the man that is bottle he resurrected in ascending to heaven that he is seated at the right hand of God so if God is a Trinity then he is seated next to his own self. So he has a body up there that he wish he can discard like some wart on his hand Or a growth or some kind of tumor. There are for up there according to the Trinitarians. They say that only Jesus body died for them they are weird and they say things that are illogical and then they say it’s a mystery that no one can understand it

[@jamiesimms7084]

Also John 1:1 says the Word with God and the Word was God. How can the Word, meaning Jesus be God and with God. Also if God implies the trinity then isn't it saying Jesus is with trinity and was the trinity. That would be claiming that Jesus is himself, the Father and the Holy Spirit and also at the same time claiming he is with himself, the father and the holy spirit. It's confusing and also nonsense

[@GoA7250]

I should have watched this one before your other arguments.

[@Adam-1984]

*The Trinity Doctrine is Not Biblical !* The Holy Spirit is not a 3rd God ! called God The Holy Spirit. Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth ''THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON'' into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. The Holy Spirit = The Spirit of God and Christ God is God the Father ! Jesus is the only begotten SON OF God (Divine) ! and the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God that reveals all truth.

[@RodMartinJr]

Yes, Adam, but we are also spirit (Genesis 1:26), for God created us twice (also in Genesis 2:7); and we should be able to realize quite easily that God's image is not one of "dust." Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@logicianbones]

Um, no Trinitarian says Spirit is a 3rd God. It's 1 God / 1 Being, in 3 Persons.

[@logicianbones]

@@RodMartinJr It doesn't say there were two creative events. We were body + spirit in the first moment of creation. You seem not to know that 2:4 ends the first account (signed by the LORD God) and 2:7 is restating that same event from Adam's perspective (signed by Adam in 5:1). Similar to the 2 sections that restate the causes of the Flood; didn't happen twice.

[@logicianbones]

@@RodMartinJr Or the four gospels, etc.

[@JKV84]

Simple and true.

[@Ranger1985.]

If the trinity is true, then according to Matt 1:18, the holy spirit is the father of Jesus.

[@DaDitka]

As well as Luke 1:35.

[@RodMartinJr]

Very nice point. But when we examine the burden of blasphemy, one against God and Christ, and the other against the Holy Spirit, we are left to conclude, at least superficially, that the Holy Spirit is a selfish, unloving grouch to withhold forgiveness *_forever!_* The solution to this seeming irony is quite simple, and it involves the fact that only by spirit do we have access to Heaven. God created us *_twice!_* Gen. 1:26 and Gen. 2:7, and we should find it easy to understand that God's image is definitely *_not_* one of "dust." Gen. 6:3 reinforces this dual nature of man with the word "also." And John 3 also reinforces this notion -- flesh is of flesh, and spirit is of spirit. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@logicianbones]

Jesse, that would be if the Trinity is FALSE, actually. ;-)

[@cbboy9269]

There is nothing impossible with GOD !!!

[@smalltimer4370]

GOD cannot lie

[@jamiesimms7084]

Can you notice a paradox? *God cannot be limited* God cannot not be God God cannot be the devil God cannot be wrong God cannot become an impossible reality

[@humbertothebeliever2443]

The scriptures are clear there is no Trinity but One True God as Jesus said...But burning some1 alive is another way to know this doctrine is wrong.

[@RodMartinJr]

Yes, and the fact that the church leaders increasingly could *_not_* perform miracles. Miracles do not prove righteousness, but lack of miracles proves a *_lack of connection_* to God. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@kevohmistari]

Very good presentation.

[@emmanuelsalomon8954]

In Acts 10:25-26 Peter refused to accept being worship. Rev 19:9-10 the angel refused to be worshipped, God must be worship. Matthew 4:9-10 Jesus said worship only God. So, according to the Bible DO NOT WORSHIP Human, Angel or Created beings. Now in the following verses: Matthew 2:2, 2:11, 8:11, 9:18, 14:33, 15:25, 20:20, 28:9, 28:17, Mark 5:6, 15:9, Luke 24:52. Jesus Christ was worshipped by people and He received and accepted the worship. According to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation only God can be worship, you Mr. Finnegan as a Unitarian do not believe that Jesus Christ is not God. Then explain why the worship was accepted and received by Jesus Christ. who is lying now? YOU or JESUS CHRIST!

[@kevohmistari]

@@emmanuelsalomon8954 Christ being worshipped is a decree given by the Father. Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.” Jesus being called GOD is also a name that he has inherited from the Father and also a decree from the Father too. Hebrews 1:4...having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. Hebrews 1:8-9 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” Example: If your name is Emmanuel Salomon Jeremiah, Jeremiah is your father's name which you have inherited. People can call you Jeremiah and you will respond, especially if your father is not there with you. But being called Jeremiah does not make you your father. There's a clear distinction. It's the same with Christ. I hope this assists you in understanding.

[@emmanuelsalomon8954]

@@kevohmistari I don’t refute that Jesus according to Hebrew 1:8 is God. I refute Sean Finnegan’s teaching that Jesus must not be worship. Because according to him Jesus is not God therefore not to be worship.

[@kevohmistari]

@@emmanuelsalomon8954 Okay, I get you now.

[@thecalling6122]

The Trinity is clearly unbiblical, but Jesus is most certainly God.

[@yfzjoe]

Psalms 83:18

[@originalhigene]

Hello Sean Finnegan, Eugene here. I have a question. There are trinitarians who have come to know almost all our reasons for rejecting that doctrine. They are not ignorant of our reasons yet they refuse to change. Why? What caused or allowed those of us that did change, to do what they can't/won't do?

[@TheChadWork2001]

Either they don't understand, or they do and refuse to accept truth. Reprobate minds.

[@toddstevens9667]

As one of those Trinitarians, let me answer. First, I don’t use the word “Trinity.” It is not in the Bible. I use the word “Godhead” to define what most people call the Trinity because it’s actually in the Bible: Colossians 2:8-9 KJV Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Second, I believe Jesus is the Son of God: John 3:16 KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Third, I believe that the Father is greater than the Son: John 14:28 KJV Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. Fourth, The Father is greater than the Son because the Son chose to humble himself. They are, in essence, the same: Philippians 2:5-8 KJV Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. John 10:30 KJV I and my Father are one. Fifth, Jesus is God manifest in the flesh: 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Sixth, Jesus is the creator God of Genesis 1: Colossians 1:16-17 KJV For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And I will draw this to a conclusion (though I could go on all day) Seventh, the formula for baptism says that we are to baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost: Matthew 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Acts 2:38 KJV Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost that Apostles baptized in was that of Jesus Christ. We believe what we believe because the Bible says so. All this history and philosophy and logic this guy spouts is unnecessary. We are just doing our best to conform ourselves to what the Bible teaches about Jesus. You disagree? That’s ok. You’re responsible for you. I’m responsible for me. And I’m going to believe what I think the Bible teaches about Jesus.

[@xerdanescal4105]

'If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.'

[@joelpierce1453]

Jesus claimed to be God. If you deny that he was, you are calling him a liar. You are not a Christian if you deny the divinity of Christ.

[@Psalm-pu2jq]

I think you are very confused. In which verse did Jesus say "I am God"? I think you are confusing arguments people make to try to say he was God Almighty with him actually saying it. But he doesn't.

[@joelpierce1453]

@@Psalm-pu2jq In John 8, Jesus says, "Before Abraham was born, I AM," and the people try to stone him for blasphemy. Also check Mark 14, in which Jesus makes a claim to divinity so explicit that the High Priest tears his robes and asks "What further proof do you need?" It is you, my friend, who is confused. Jesus is a Liar, a Lunatic, or the Lord. I think he's the Lord, God incarnate. What about you?

[@Psalm-pu2jq]

@@joelpierce1453 Like I said - I think that you are very confused. Your arguments do not pass the simple test that I gave you - Where does Jesus say "I am God"? You are substituting worn out trinitarian arguments in the place of what should be a simple statement. I encourage you to take some time and begin rethinking the doctrine that you have been fed. The truth is better. Give it a chance. It will do you good.

[@joelpierce1453]

@@Psalm-pu2jq Have you not read the story of Moses encountering the burning bush? Where God speaks and calls himself the I AM? Jesus is referencing this exact event. When Jesus says: "Before Abraham was born, I AM," he is using the same name of God given to Moses. When he tells the High Priest in Mark 14 that "you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven," (Mark 14:62) he is making an equally explicit claim to divinity, one the high priest and other scribes and pharisees recognized. You have to be willfully blind to not recognize these as claims to divinity. Jesus' audience immediately recognized these claims, which is why they wanted to stone Jesus for blasphemy. You are just like them. You are calling God a liar.

[@joelpierce1453]

@@Psalm-pu2jq Further, the apostles understood clearly that Jesus was God. Have you not read Philippians 2? "In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage," (Philippians 2:5‭-‬6). Or have you not read Colossians? Where it is written: "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." (Colossians 1:15). "The image of the invisible God," meaning God in the flesh. God with us, Emmanuel. It is an inescapable fact of scripture that Jesus IS Yahweh, and denying it is heresy. You have deserted the truth of scripture and turned to another gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). A Jesus who is not God is a Jesus who cannot save, and you are still dead in your sins.

[@Mark-ec3lp]

When a person tells me the trinity is a mystery and can't really be explained. I tell them to read Proverbs 14:15.

[@angeliquaserenity5009]

I respectfully disagree the Trinity is self-contradictory. The problem is that you are starting out with a finite, Empirical worldview. If God is infinite in existence, then he could be an infinite number of persons or centers of consiousness. In other words, only an infinite being that is omnipresent can be multipersonal. That's not to say that being omnipresent and being infinite in nature is evidence in of itself that God is multipersonal, let alone Triune. However, if we apply the Principle of Charity (Benefit of the doubt), we can see that its logically possible for an infinite God to exist as multiple persons. Also, when Trinitarians are describing the F, S, HS as fully God, they are not saying that they are each the Trinity. In a Syllogism, you cannot honestly distribute the Predicate as opposed to the Subject. Also, a Major term cannot be the conclusion in a Syllogism (Trinitiy being a Major term). When Trintiarians describe the F, S, HS as Fully God, they are describing each of the members of the Godhead as being uncreated, self-existent of creation, eternal in nature (Infinitely existint). Trinitarians are not saying each of the members of the Godhead are fully Trinity. I would kindly advise you not take your lead from the likes of Dr. Dale Tuggy for a few reasons. (1) he does not distribute terms properly in his syllogistic arguments. AAA-2 is an invalid form. (2) Atheists use identical syllogisms to disprove scripture. If Trinity is a scriptural concept, then that would mean scripture is illogical as it were to present Trinity. Atheists see that fact. Hence, all such Syllogistic arguments work against scripture and not so much just Trinity if Trinity were a scriptural concept. www.mesacc.edu/~barsp59601/text/103/notes/syllogisms.pdf

[@AquarianAgeApostle]

👌🏻 nailed it.

[@philosophicalneo]

i appreciate these discussion that have the intent of disproving the Trinity and then actually give fair analysis to support it even more so. his analogy of 3 persons are human but not the same is so eye-opening. for we are all equal and human yet different persons, and when we become one with the body of Christ who is one with the Father, then we can share in that unity of the Holy Spirit. Amazing analogy to prove the Trinity!

[@RodMartinJr]

And I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. Did not the concept of "trinity" develop over the first 6 centuries after Christ? Is the word "trinity" anywhere in the Bible? And is there any specific claim that the three are one? Personally, I can find no such verse that was not altered by later scribes, especially during the creation of the Latin Vulgate (late 4th century). Please, what are your thoughts on this question: Why is it that blaspheming against God and Christ can be forgiven, but blaspheming against the Holy Spirit cannot? The answer to this destroys trinity, for trinity forces upon church members the only unforgivable sin.

[@logicianbones]

Well said, Angeliqua. Failure to understand distribution of terms is one of the most common errors. (Means the structure of the statement refers to all members of a class, like all humans are organic doesn't refer to all organic creatures, only to all humans, so "organic" isn't distributed.)

[@logicianbones]

Also, fatal loneliness problem of Allah/etc. actually means we should expect at least 2 Persons in the only always-existing infinite God.

[@dorothypoole8908]

The debate lasted for days. Arius attended the conference. When he started singing one of his songs, Bishop Nicholas of Myra became so enraged he punched him in the nose! (The Catholic Church later canonized him, naming him St. Nicholas...now known as the first Santa Claus!)

[@lwmaynard5180]

Santa Paws ! BASHOP NICHOLAS ? 😁 😠

[@kalasatwater2224]

So glad more people are waking up from this false doctrine

[@joehinojosa8314]

Well researched,documented,good systematic presentation. I understand why unitarians maintain Jewish (anti trinitarian) monotheism. Obviously you are familiar with trinitarian exegesis of such texts as John 1:3, which separates the Logos from all created things,implying Aseity or eternal preexistence.

[@RodMartinJr]

Good point, but Adam Kadmon (the spiritual half of man) was created outside of time -- in Heaven, where there is no space, time, energy or mass. And, as such, Adam, as well as all of the angels of Heaven are "I AM" and never "I was" or "I shall be." Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@logicianbones]

@@RodMartinJr We wouldn't say that Adam's spirit was "created outside of time" but rather that in God's omniscience God already had the knowledge pattern of what it would be (or you could think of it as "could be" but obviously being beyond time he always knows he creates Adam at that point in our time). It was CREATED withIN time.

[@logicianbones]

@@RodMartinJr Also heaven has time and space; this is a common misconception not rooted in the Bible (see Randy Alcorn's Heaven for the background on that). Neither Adam nor angels were "I AM" (except when speaking of their actual present times of course, but even there knowing the meaning of that name of God they would avoid it).

[@logicianbones]

@@RodMartinJr Also this is falsified by the reaction of the people of the time; they knew this isn't so of Adam or angels so rightly saw it as a claim to be God.

[@logicianbones]

@@RodMartinJr And keep in mind this video set a rule that any such explanation like what you gave is "cheating," so while explanations (if sound) are on the table for US, they aren't for anti-Trinitarians who hold to that argument. If you reject that argument, everything else SEEMING to "support" Unitarianism falls apart too.

[@quakers200]

If this whole relationship between Jesus and God is so important and God is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, and eternal you would think that the Bible would have made this clear.

[@ntxn9336]

This is the second video I've seen of yours on this topic. Dead-on. God bless you for preaching the unpopular Truth. Well, I take that back. You were right until you started saying Jesus is not God. My goodness. Christendom is so mixed up. How can you say Jesus is not made of Spirit when it was God (who is a Spirit - John 4:24) who entered into Mary's egg to be born into the flesh? Jesus was absolutely God in the flesh until He was glorified after resurrection. ALL power in heaven and earth was given to Him at that time - ALL power. (Matthew 28:18) That makes Him God Almighty.

[@johansteyn3756]

Arius was actually correct. He believed that Jesus was the literal Son of God, not a created being as many say what he believed.

[@RodMartinJr]

*_Attachments to man-made doctrines_* are where we run into the most trouble. People tend to become *_certain_* and that stops them from looking! That certainty also turns them away from God and toward man and "democratic" voting (earthly agreements). Certainty in self and self's knowledge is man declaring self to be "First," while certainty in God and our ability to ask for His wisdom puts us Last and God first. References: *_The Logical Christian: Handbook of spiritual reasoning in an unthinking, secular world_* *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@logicianbones]

Two problems with that: 1) This video and every other Unitarian argument I've yet seen rests on premises (sometimes hidden, maybe intentionally so) that are man-made. Like the idea that Trinitarianism is evil and similar things in this video around where he makes this point about manmade. Just pause there and read the slide on-screen; it has MANY manmade claims!

[@logicianbones]

2) It forgets that Jesus himself taught that we're supposed to make deductions that are sound from what is taught, and chastised people when they failed to do so. So a sound deduction from what's stated isn't "manmade" even if it isn't explicitly stated (that said, much of what he claimed in the video IS explicitly denied! Like that Jesus explicitly said he existed before Abraham!).

[@jamiesimms7084]

​@@logicianbonesthe trinity is false and comes from a Greek and Roman background. God never taught this to chosen people -the Israelites. You just don't like the truth because it's offensive to what you were taught

[@womanatwellworshiptheFather]

The Father is the ONLY HOLY SPIRIT And Jesus SAID his Father dwelled in Him

[@AnHebrewChild]

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but **the Spirit of your Father** which speaketh in you. Mat10 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but **the Holy Ghost.** Mrk13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: for **I** will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. Luk21

[@donevans1892]

This is the reason why I don't listen to or trust mans teaching. Unless you have been in the very presence of God, and He himself explained to you what you are teaching is the truth, I don't believe it. One thing in the past 30 years of prayer and studying the word of God, is we don't know near what we claim to know.

[@RodMartinJr]

Bravo! Humility to God, always. But also a perpetual student, hungry to improve our understanding. This is one of the key flaws of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th century church scholars -- they wanted to *_"fix"_* the meaning to some physical meaning (the "ink") rather than help others to develop the ability to discover the **_spirit_* behind the ink. Because *_every_* man is not omniscient, we all -- each and every one of us -- always has more to learn. So, it seems, while we remain in this physical universe, God's Truth will *_never_* be a destination, but merely a direction, for Truth is entirely spiritual in nature and thus cannot be held by the words in any human language. After 69 years of study, I know that I have far more to learn. My current, relative truth remains imperfect, and in need of improvement. So, out of necessity, I remain humble to God so that I may learn the next lesson. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@RodMartinJr]

@Chris Cuomo Perhaps "claim" was too strong a word, for many Christians never explicitly claim what they know, but they strongly imply it by their statements of *_certainty._* Let me as you this: "Are you omniscient?" I suspect that you will answer, "No," to this, but correct me if I'm wrong. The implications of a "no" answer are that you have more to learn. All learning requires humility, and most Christians I've met have insufficient humility; their *_certainty_* gets in the way. While it is good not to "swallow" the viewpoints of others, too often Christians do this, but do not realize that they do it. They accept the views of some Earthly "experts," but shy away from those of others. Let's look at applicable scripture. In 2 Corinthians 3.3-8, we learn that we are not to cling to the "ink" as all biblical literalists do, but need to find the "spirit" of scripture to find everlasting life, for the "letter" (the literal ink) leads to death. Christ said that many are called but few chosen. Out of the roughly 2.5 billion Christians, could this mean millions? Thousands? A dozen? This alone should humble every single Christian into *_wondering, "What is it that would make Christ reject so many?"_* Perhaps even better, to ask, *_"Dear Lord, what else can you teach me about these things?"_* Christ also said that the way is narrow or difficult. Too many Christians treat salvation as a comfortable location. He also said that many would call him, "Lord," but would end up being cast out by him. My recommendation to ALL Christians is to cultivate a deep and healthy humility to God, *_perpetually_* seeking to understand His words more completely, for it is quite likely that you will *_never_* reach omniscience so long as you remain on this side of the narrow gate.

[@RodMartinJr]

@Chris Cuomo Hypocrisy? I point out flaws knowing that I have many, so there is no hypocrisy, there. Some seem to imply their own omniscience and perfection, missing all the evidence which proves them wrong by their certainty. And you seem so certain, but cannot argue your point without obfuscation. I'm happy to learn from others; you don't seem to be so much. For instance, your argument by which you "prove" your hypocrisy claim is as clear as mud. Instead of using obtuse symbology, why not state a precise example? Or are you afraid of learning something? I'm beginning to think you're merely an agent of chaos, or so completely befuddled you cannot make a coherent argument. I like to learn, and so far you are failing in the "teaching" department. *_Try one more time._* If your next reply is as "clear" as the previous ones, I'll have to pass on your "wisdom."

[@CRoadwarrior]

This Finnegan guy needs to learn actual logic. Saying that if God were truly a plurality, He should always say "Us" and "Our" is the logical fallacy of the non sequitur. His reasoning simply does not follow. God does constantly say "Us" in Genesis in the Hebrew, but nothing in logic or Scripture confines Him to this. Mr. Finnegan cannot be taken seriously, and he by no means refutes the doctrine of the Trinity in this or any other video.

[@logicianbones]

Yeah, we would need some logic to show why he couldn't use singular pronouns for the Being, versus just Persons, or that all cases aren't of one Person. But probably a somewhat understandable mistake of not knowing Wisdom theology so not understanding that this pronoun setup is expected by informed Trinitarians. (Jesus is God's Wisdom per NT.)

[@jamiesimms7084]

I don't think you can be taken seriously because his logic does follow and your points were already addressed which you ignored. This is not a fallacy from him but you are using the exact same fallacy that you are accusing him of.

[@jamiesimms7084]

If God is plural then that would be the way they would address themselves. Then to suggest using a few instances of plurality as a means to say God is plural is ignoring those other times and to ignore the context and exact meaning. His logic is correct and it does follow. However yours doesn't.

[@jamiesimms7084]

​@@logicianbonesso you have to be an informed Trinitarian to expect this pronoun set up which was never a part of any Israelite teaching or understanding. I'm glad you said it. I couldn't have worded it better myself. Out of the horse's mouth. You undue your own doctrine

[@JRJohnson1701]

at 12:11 - if you can list the hellenistic ideas in Christianity and then provide a scriptural counter, that would be helpful in convincing people to turn towards scripture.

[@angeliquaserenity5009]

You are using the wrong Greek word for Begotten. A better word describing begotten in the sense of coming into being would be Gennao and not Monogenes. As a matter of fact, we get the word Generate from the Greek word Gennao. Being a student of the Early Church Writings, I am sure you are familiar with the creed of "Begotten not made". Jesus was begotten in the sense he eternally derives his nature from the Father. Not that there was a time that Jesus once was not as Arius taught. David was speaking in relation to his coronation in Ps 2:7. Apparently, David did not come into being when he wrote that Psalms. that would be nonsense to argue otherwise. David was describing his convenant relationship with the Lord that through his lineage the Messiah would be born. As for the word Son, if you were consistent then that would mean God in your theology could not be eternally the Father since Jesus did not always exist in your Christology. After all, if that is a requirement for a Son to be born by a Father, then the one who is the Father was not always the Father since he would need to have an offspring to be a Father according to your own reasoning. If that helps, we see in Jn 8:44, Jesus said that the Devil was the Father of his enemies. Apparently, Satan did not give birth to Jesus' enemies. Rather, Jesus was using a Hebrew idiom to describe the enemies of Jesus as belonging to the same class as Satan or belonging to Satan in the adopted sense. Jesus is called Son of God becasue he belongs to the same class as the Father (Jn 19:7). Jesus did however also become the Son in his incarnation with respect to his humanity. Jesus as the Son clearly preexited according to Jn 6:32, 38, 42, 51,. Jesus is the PHYSICAL image of God due to his incarnation. Jesus is the perfect image of God in regards to his eternal nature. Only an eternal person or God himself could fully reveal and communicate who the Father was in Jn 14:7. A finite human being would be by nature limited in revealing the Father fully.

[@loleki737]

Interesting. When Jesus was baptized, He was anointed by the Spirit. Whether He was full of deity (colossians 2:9) before that I'm not sure.

[@DaDitka]

Hmm... At around 16:50, he mentions that trinitarians will appeal to mystery- "how can you expect to know or understand the great mystery that is an infinite God?" But then... How can they honestly say that the trinity is truth when they cannot be expected to know or understand the great mystery that is the infinite God? They are under the same standard that they set up in their comments on who God is, aren't they? So why do they KNOW that God is a trinity when they then tell us that we cannot understand the infinite? To day that they know that God is a trinity is to say that they can understand God, which is the very thing they say we cannot do. Unless I'm missing something? I must be misunderstanding something...

[@robertwatley5249]

You aren't missing anything. Trinitarians are when they use this logic

[@RodMartinJr]

Incredibly good logic. Well said. And trinity forces church members to commit the only unforgivable sin. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@logicianbones]

You are missing a couple of things. First, if you re-watch where he brings this up, he does so after he makes a fallacious argument from ignorance. Of course Trinitarians who disagree will want to point out he can't argue from lack of understanding to a CONCLUSION that he's right. And second we are NOT saying that this is the SUPPORT for our view; OTHER things are.

[@logicianbones]

When he uses that fallacy to the typical Christian, who probably isn't that well educated in logic, they'll intuitively realize it's a bad argument because in your normal life you can't assume "if I don't understand X, X must be false", and since they're religious, of course they'll think of the biblical passage about mysterious ways as their way to express it.

[@logicianbones]

There's nothing inherently wrong with their doing so, but yes, it sounds bad because modern anti-Christian skeptics and in these cases Christian (I guess? He does say at two points that he's not in the church so... not sure what he calls himself) anti-Trinitarians/etc. have realized they can make an emotional propoganda attack based on it.

[@douglasdeltondo7852]

So if the notion of Jesus is God began with Justin saying that the word was Jesus, then Justin should’ve known his mistake immediately because of John 17 verses 1 to 3. The only true God is the father. Therefore, Justin made a mistake clearly it was contradictory to Jesus. Right off the bat

[@AnHebrewChild]

Hi Doug - I appreciate your critiques of Paul. But question: do think 'John' was written by Apostle John of Zebedee?

[@douglasdeltondo7852]

@@AnHebrewChild I do not think someone killed in Acts 12 by Herod was the author of a book written in 96 ad… 50 years After.

[@AnHebrewChild]

@@douglasdeltondo7852 right on. Thanks

[@jamiesimms7084]

Jesus when speaking to his father, you are the only true God.

[@diosdadoapias]

Tertulian was right in his assertion that the Father is greater than the son, and the holy spirit(John 14:28 Jesus said "xxx The Father is greater than I." On the other hand, Arius could be right and biblically right when he asserts that there was a time that the son was not because he has a beginning being begotten by God who himself has no beginning as God the Father was unbegotten.

[@lh7550]

Excelent presentation. Just wanted to point (regarding min 37) that it is perfectly plausible that the Son, Logos, Verb... existed since eternity, since He was the beginning of all creation and in Him all things came to be. God (Father) created the Space-Time fabric. There was No "Space" or "Time' before that event.... but first God begets the Son... so in that sense the Son is with the Father from the beguining of time. There is where our finite mind stops, because the Father begetting the Son implies an ordered sequence before "time" was created. Greetings,

[@TheChadWork2001]

Jesus is a human. He was born by a man and a woman just like us. He didn't exist before he was born. The messiah is a human.

[@lovetwentyfourseven7428]

The word was metaphysical being in the light; and the word sustained all beings in the light; and then The word became flesh and lived among us. The person of Jesus is a manifestation of that metaphysical being, of universal consciousness the light that lights all beings who came into the creation; it is a light internal being. The “I am” is that spark of a self awareness of being. (This essential subordinate being sustained all beings in creation before the fall) this is why the word becoming flesh and then that blood is able to atone for sin and sustain the fallen order of creation. Renewing it to the father; in the essence of the original sonship in Adam and Eve.

[@originalhigene]

Hello Sean Finnegan, Eugene here. There are some who make the argument that the three persons of the trinity do a "love dance", that they love each. My question is which one of them expressed the "greatest love" for the others, that is to "die" for them? I would also like to know how they showed/expressed that love. What would they communicate to one another since they all know what the others know? Change subject. If God exists in a realm where there is no time or space, how could He be "every where" all the time? Now the last tid-bit of foolishness. Can God give himself a surprise party?

[@lh7550]

Hi, just remember Physics... God created the fabric of Space-Time. There was No "Time" before creation as there was No "Space" either. Therfore, 1-God abides outside spacetime but can permeate through it at will (omnipresent, omnisapient). 2-The Verb, the Logos, Beguinning of all creation could very well have been begotten before time and space were created (there is no "time" before him). Greetings,

[@originalhigene]

@@lh7550 Hello L H, Eugene here. Thanks for your input. If we ask, When did something come into existence?", do we not have to consider what we mean by the word/concept "existence"? If "something" was in God's mind before "it" became "physical", when did it come to "exist"? You seem to want the creation of our cosmos to be the first thing God created in/from all eternity. Think about this: If God is a creator God, a working, moving, thinking Being, and God does not change who/what He is, then it is reasonable to think that He has always been what He now is. Could you imagine a creator God who "became what He had not been prior"? So, I think God has always been a creator and thus He has always had a creation of some kind. Next, the concept of time and space, is just a tool to describe "where" things are and their "motion". Please note that we use the word "time" in different ways. When the teacher tells the students that they have twenty minutes to complete the test, and then twenty minutes later tells then that "time is up", she does not mean that "time" no longer exists. It would be reasonable to think that "time and space" did not exist "here in this cosmos" before it was created, but that does not mean that God has not always been "somewhere" doing "one thing after the other", which could be measured with the "tool" we know as time. When God makes something we ought to be able to think of those things as being somewhere in relation to where God is as well as to where the other things are. That requires the concept of space. There is some who want God to be outside of time and space because they think God would be limited by these ideas, that is not the case. If space and time are limitless/infinite, it they are only concepts of some mind, then how could they limit God? They could not. Write me back.

[@V21IC]

Este video tiene un fin que no tiene que ver con la educación clásica y formal. Se ve como muchas no entiendan que es la educación escolar! La formación de la educación escolar es primero ser general en las materias para que cada alumno se descubra por si mismo la área que le interese. Siempre, me gusta la física, y la matemáticas! Como teenager en la primaria me mamá nos llevaba a la biblioteca pública un sábado sí y otro no. Así tuve que leer 3 libros de mi elección cada 2 semanas. Eso era regla de mi mamá y tuve que cumplirla! El bulling en mi tiempo es algo que cada niño y niña tenía que afrontar para que seamos maduros y sepan manejar los elementos! La educación tienes que enseñar la disciplina por medio de reglas, las tareas, la estructura! La falta de disciplina es ser desobediente, de hacer las tareas o entregarlas tarde; y no hagamos las cosas cuando y si queramos o depende de cómo sientamos! Las alumnas que salgan al mundo de trabajo tienen que ser disciplinadas! Allí, sale la lección de la responsabilidad y la culpabilidad de las decisiones tomadas! No tiene sentido que los papás mal educan a sus hijos para no obedecer a las autoridades/las maestras y aún así ellos dependen de que las maestras harían milagros! Cómo niños juguemos mucho. La creatividad era al máximo! Cuando era tiempo para la escuela pues, hay que dar lo duro! Hoy en día, los niños/estudiantes tienen todo a mano sin tener que esforzarse. Eso mata la creatividad! Solo al paso de tiempo y depende de la vocación que haga uno, se va a poner en práctica muchas cosas de las escuelas. Muchas estudiantes no les gustan las matemáticas porque no sepan afrontar los problemas,pensar abstracto, analizar, a priorizar; y además, no han aprendido el patrón de solucionar los cálculos aún después de tantas veces y años. Otra cosa. Los textos tienen un costo. No se puedan actualizar textos cada vez que hay un cambio o más información. He conocido a muchas personas titulado de algún universidad, pero son ellos mismos no seguían capacitándose! Leer libros artículos sobre la instalación electricidad pero no soy eléctrico ni trabajo en eso! Lo hago para saber. Lo mismo con el derecho laboral aunque no soy abogado ni trabajo en eso. Leer de la administración de negocio y project management aunque soy nada más un 'chalan'!😊 La educación solo es una estructura que nos enseña como organizarnos información, procedimientos, retroalimentación.….todo para demos la solución de problemas! La educación no sabe el futuro de los alumnos así hay enseñarles muchas cosas como introducción para que si van a estudiar más! La educación escolar es la enseñanza. El aprendizaje depende del alumno! Hoy en día podemos recorrer al internet para buscar lo que no recordemos. Antes, era pura memoria! Estudiaba la Literatura de Shakespeare. Eso me ha ayudado ver y leer el comportamiento del ser humano y qué fácil lo es contralor las personas por la emoción. Cuándo un profe de la educación/ escuela pública va a tener hacer tantas cosas y dedicarse a cada alumno? Los maestros son papás también. Qué hacen los papás para ayudar en esas situaciones? Según el vídeo, se echan la culpa a los maestros! Ser papás no es limitado a darle lo tangible (palpable) a los niños! El mundo acepta y pagara más a la persona que tenga un papelito porque dice que a esa persona le importa saber más.

[@Revelation18-4]

The trinity doctrine comes from pagan Egypt. It is not biblical. The Godhead is biblical. Colossians 2:8-9 Distinct or not. God is not 3 persons, Jesus said, "I and the Father are ONE." "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."

[@jesusisthechristthesonofgod]

Father (God) and Son (Christ) are not the same person.

[@Revelation18-4]

@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod Wrong. Jesus said, "if you've seen Me, you've seen the Father." John 14:9 Jesus also said, "I and the Father are One." John 10:30-33 God is not 3 individual persons. That makes 3 gods, not one God.

[@jesusisthechristthesonofgod]

@@Revelation18-4 God is one person, the Father. Jesus is a different person, the Son of God, the Christ. Jesus did not say "I am the Father" nor "I and the Father are the same person." God is not three.

[@jamiegilbert9785]

@@Revelation18-4 Let me help you by asking who is the Son according to Isaiah 9:6? Is He the Almighty God (el gibor in Hebrew with English letters) and the Everlasting Father? Also, who did Jesus say He was (and is) when He told the Pharisees that 'Abraham rejoiced to see Me in his day' and that 'before Abraham was I AM'?

[@Revelation18-4]

@@jamiegilbert9785 The pharisee's rejected Yeshua/ Jesus, who is almighty God. The trinity is a pagan belief and Catholicism followed suit along with the harlot daughters of Revelation. The Godhead is biblical. Colossians 2:9 God has 3 parts consisting of soul, body, and Spirit. He is not 3 persons of a pagan trinity.

[@alsanabani]

The creator in the trinity is limited to: 1- a time (current timeline), 2- a race (Adam's race) and 3- a place (Earth). A creator with such limitations can't function outside it. By definition, The Creator is a being who's capable of creating anything out of nothing, erase what he creates and bring a brand new creation. The creator in the trinity is a creator, but he is not the creator of everything. Christianity start in the trinity and ends there. Proud to be a Muslim.

[@philosophicalneo]

i appreciate these discussion that have the intent of disproving the Trinity and then actually give fair analysis to support it even more so. his analogy of 3 persons are human but not the same is so eye-opening. for we are all equal and human yet different persons, and when we become one with the body of Christ who is one with the Father, then we can share in that unity of the Holy Spirit. Amazing analogy to prove the Trinity!

[@alsanabani]

@@philosophicalneo WTH?

[@RodMartinJr]

@@philosophicalneo That you say such a thing proves that you have a very weak grasp of logic. If we can have unity through the Holy Spirit to Christ and then to God, as one of the verses quoted affirms, then that would mean that we can also be God, by your logic. Polynity? You just destroyed your own argument!

[@RodMartinJr]

@@alsanabani Disagree! Christianity started not with the trinity and certainly will *_not_* end with it, either. It started with Yeshua of Nazareth and will continue until we are all returned to Heaven by our own decision; and those who decide to stay behind will remain deterministic cogs in the machine of action-reaction physical reality. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@philosophicalneo]

@@RodMartinJr being gathered into the body of Christ does not diminish nor remove the truth or essence of Him. Just as we operate in a body of government or a nation as a collective, the form of the unity is shared with all. This just happens to be spiritual unity. We are not 'America' nor are we the 'Government', we are members of a body that is already whole with or without us. Your reference to becoming God is similar to heretical teachings like in Mormonism or new age spiritual movements. I would prefer you not conclude that my arguments are destroyed before I say my piece. Lest you read your own words and conclude the same :)

[@stclairjones815]

There is no such thing as a pre-human human. You're not technically alive until you breathe on your own . There was nobody alive before they were born into this world

[@eflint1]

Yes, Moses was called"God." But all the fullness of the Deity did not dwell in Moses in bodily form.

[@emmanuelsalomon8954]

In Acts 10:25-26 Peter refused to accept being worship. Rev 19:9-10 the angel refused to be worshipped, God must be worship. Matthew 4:9-10 Jesus said worship only God. So, according to the Bible DO NOT WORSHIP Human, Angel or Created beings. Now in the following verses: Matthew 2:2, 2:11, 8:11, 9:18, 14:33, 15:25, 20:20, 28:9, 28:17, Mark 5:6, 15:9, Luke 24:52. Jesus Christ was worshipped by people and He received and accepted the worship. According to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation only God can be worship, you Mr. Finnegan as a Unitarian do not believe that Jesus Christ is not God. Then explain why the worship was accepted and received by Jesus Christ. who is lying now? YOU or JESUS CHRIST!

[@DaDitka]

@@emmanuelsalomon8954 Hebrews 1:6.

[@yfzjoe]

​@emmanuelsalomon8954 check the Greek. It did NOT say "worship"... it said "obeisance"... a sign of respect, expressing deferential respect, such as a bow or curtsy

[@twooharmony2000]

25:47 They are not in the father"s hand--what you show is wrong and saying more than was printed there at first but the same wrong at the end--them.-Ernie Moore Jr. John 10 :29 ("they" are in Jesus's hand and) only Jesus is in God's hand, Jesus unpluckable-from. The translation-interpretation you show should put "...and no one is able to snatch Me out of the father's hand."-Ernie Moore Jr.

[@angeliquaserenity5009]

Normally, I get on NonTriniarians and King James Onlyists for counting words and passages. However, I like you as you are very polite and gentle over our email discussions. So I will try to be gentle with you here: Counting is not exegeting. There were no word counts in the first several centuries of Christianity. You did not have word counts untiil problably the late 1800's/early 1900's. At any rate, my point is this: God only needs to say something once for it to be true. Not once, not twice, not 20,000 times. If God is described in the plural only once, then we must accept that plurality within God's nature exists. With all due respect, God is not a statistician. God is multipersonal because he is INTERCHANGEBLY described in the Plural and Singular. Jn 17:3 is not a problem for Trinitarians. You are modifying the wrong noun first of all. Next, Jesus is called the Only Unique God in Jn 1:18 and the Only Unique God and is called Only Lord and Master (Jude 4). So the Father is exempt from being the Only Unique God or the Only Lord and Master? Last I checked only God can be the one Lord according to Deu 6:4. Trinitarians have argued for more than two millenia that the Father is the God of Jesus within the Triune Godhead and with respect to the incarnation. Who does exactly like God except God himself according to Jn 5:19? How can a finite creature do what an infnite God does? Can a creature hold the universe together? How can all things exist in a creature like how all things exist in God? Clearly, Jesus in context cannot act outside the will of God the Father. Not that he is unable to do what God can do which would require him to be Supreme Deity. So I would say Unitarians shoot themselves in the foot with Jn 5:19. Finish the entire verse. Don't just stop at the first clause "I myself can do nothing". Finish the passage by taking the second clause into consideration.

[@logicianbones]

Amen, and a very gentle model for how to engage with them! That's frustratingly difficult as they often seem to use methods that look a lot like intentional manipulation tactics -- like in this video he appeals to passages we admit are tough for us and says any attempt to explain is "cheating" -- yet he doesn't in fairness then show the passages you mentioned and explain those.

[@logicianbones]

The only way I can imagine that working is if he either hopes his audience never finds out that those passages look not just tough for Unitarians but downright impossible, or else he hopes they'll just tolerate the cognitive dissonance when Unitarians then start to try to explain them away and not notice they themselves said any explaining = cheating.

[@S.R.M.]

Don't let the Trinitarians define you! Trinitarians dominate Christianity so much so that they would have you believe that if you are not a Trinitarian, you are not a Christian. This is not true. Historically, Christianity has not always been controlled by the Trinitarians or their Doctrine. There was no defined Trinitarian doctrine for the first three hundred years of the history of the Christian Church. But to listen to Trinitarians, you would think Christ taught His disciples the Trinity, or at the very least God revealed the Doctrine of the Trinity to the church from the beginning. No such teaching or revelation from God was ever given, nor was the Trinity made essential for believers according to the Bible. Yet, according to Trinitarians, the doctrine of the Trinity is considered sacred and fundamental, and most Trinitarians view it as the litmus test for defining who is and is not a Christian. Only ignorance would allow such a thing. The audacity of the Trinitarians to threaten one’s very salvation! James White has publicly stated, “We (Trinitarians) hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian” (The Forgotten Trinity, pp. 14-15). And yet, no one can understand the Trinity. Scholars have acknowledged this, “The mind of man cannot fully understand the mystery of the Trinity. He who has tried to understand the mystery fully will lose his mind; but he who would deny the Trinity will lose his soul” (Harold Linsell and Charles Woodbridge, A Handbook of Christian Truth, pp. 51). This Trinitarian Doctrine produces confusion, and this confusion is not from the God of the Bible (1 Corinthians 14:33). Where did this doctrine of the Trinity come from? “The term ‘Trinity’ is not itself found in the Bible. The term trinitas was first used by Tertullian at the close of the 2nd century but received wide currency and formal elucidation only after the 4th and 5th centuries” (see “Trinity,” New Bible Dictionary, 1996). “Precisely what that doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves” (see “Trinitarians,” A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge). Biblically, God never revealed the Doctrine of the Trinity, then how did the church come to accept it? From history, we get the answer, “The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and many controversies…It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons” (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 11, p. 928, 1985 ed.). “There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the trinity-at any rate from Him” (H.G. Wells, The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499, 1920). Over 3 hundred years after Christ, this doctrine of God being Triune took over the church as essential to our salvation! What of all the believers who accepted Christ before the 4th century, but had no idea that belief in the Trinity was a requirement for their salvation? Are they lost? No, because belief in the Trinity does not bring salvation, only belief in the name of Christ (Acts 4:12). Is the demand by Trinitarians that one must believe in the Trinity to receive salvation a form of legalism? What is legalism? Have not Trinitarians laid down the law that one must believe in the Trinity to be saved? In Christian theology, "legalism" is a pejorative term applied to the idea that "by doing good works or by obeying the law, a person earns and merits salvation." If men, whether by popular belief or by group or clergy, place a prerequisite, a stipulation, or insist upon a certain belief upon one so that they would receive salvation is this not a form of legalism? Only Christ, by the will of the Father, can place prerequisites, stipulations, and beliefs upon one to receive salvation without falling under “legalism.” Therefore, Christ made no requirement that one must believe in the Trinity to receive salvation, then it follows that the stipulation that one must believe in the Trinity would be a form of legalism caused by Trinitarians. There is no requirement by Christ that one must believe in the Trinity to receive salvation. Where did the idea of the Trinity come from since God never revealed the concept of the Trinity? Edward Gibbon, a noted historian, gives this answer, “If paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians…was changed by the Church…into the incomprehensible dogma of the Trinity” (The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, p. xvi, 1883). The Trinity finds its birth in the West according to Pagan Greek philosophy. Were we not warned about this by the apostle Paul, who wrote, “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ” (Colossians 2:8). Rise up in truth all Christians and throw off this heavy yoke of Trinitarian bondage to a false doctrine never revealed by Christ. It is false that one must believe in the Trinity to be saved. Christ is God because His God and Father gave Him all things, and all things are committed to Him. Christ said, “All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him” (Matthew 11:27).

[@alexsue9593]

Trinity? is a lie! The Bible’s answer Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopædia Britannica states: “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.” In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages: “Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”-Deuteronomy 6:4. “You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”-Psalm 83:18. “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”-John 17:3. “God is only one.”-Galatians 3:20. Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

[@RodMartinJr]

Because of peer pressure, because of familiarity, and because of a lack of humility to God -- replaced with humility to man and to his interpretation. Gregory of Nyssa (4th century church scholar) argued very poorly for "trinity," but he was in the *_democratic_* majority. But Truth cares not for majority. Gregory lied about his opponent, Eunomius, and after Eunomius died, his books were burned and his body moved from his home town. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@emmanuelsalomon8954]

In Acts 10:25-26 Peter refused to accept being worship. Rev 19:9-10 the angel refused to be worshipped, God must be worship. Matthew 4:9-10 Jesus said worship only God. So, according to the Bible DO NOT WORSHIP Human, Angel or Created beings. Now in the following verses: Matthew 2:2, 2:11, 8:11, 9:18, 14:33, 15:25, 20:20, 28:9, 28:17, Mark 5:6, 15:9, Luke 24:52. Jesus Christ was worshipped by people and He received and accepted the worship. According to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation only God can be worship, you Mr. Finnegan as a Unitarian do not believe that Jesus Christ is not God. Then explain why the worship was accepted and received by Jesus Christ. who is lying now? YOU or JESUS CHRIST!

[@RodMartinJr]

@@emmanuelsalomon8954 I can't speak for Mr. Finnegan, but it seems clear that Jesus *_allowed_* a great many lies, misconceptions and misunderstandings to persist. For instance, choosing Judas Iscariot as one of his inner 12 disciples. He knew the man's heart. Why would he choose Judas? Because he needed a betrayer to help him fulfill prophecy. In another incident, Jesus asked his disciples to buy swords, but after one of his disciples used his sword, Jesus condemned the use, warning that he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword. Why did he do this groan-worthy about face? He needed to ensure that the temple guards would not hesitate in arresting him. This was needed to help ensure that prophecy was fulfilled. Christ said that many would be called but few would be chosen! There may be many reasons why the *_MAJORITY_* of Earth's 2.4 billion Christians will fail to make it into Heaven. But the vast majority of Christians are trinitarians. And believing that the object of salvation *_does not need salvation_* because it is a part of some fictional godhead, *_is indeed the only unforgivable sin, because of the individual's decision to block that required forgiveness._* Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_* *_The Logical Christian: Handbook of spiritual reasoning in an unthinking, secular world_* *_Enemies of Christ_*

[@logicianbones]

​@@RodMartinJr 1) So your argument is that it was okay for Jesus to accept sinful worship and referring to him as God, even though sinless angels couldn't? 2) It's obvious why he chose Judas. His whole purpose was to die and he needed a traitor. I don't see the comparison. 3) Swords was for defense against thieves, not rebellion!

[@ounkwon6442]

Defining Trinity - as the Trinity Doctrine or as Trinity Godhead?

[@RodMartinJr]

A false doctrine which was patched together over a period of several *_centuries_* by church leaders who became increasingly *_hateful and brutal._* (In other words, increasingly un-Christian.)

[@AquarianAgeApostle]

So, if the Father is God alone, who is Jesus? According to the Bible only God and God alone is capable of saving us. Then why call Jesus our Saviour if he is not God?

[@AstariahJW]

Jehovah is the savior. Jesus was the instrument

[@AquarianAgeApostle]

@@AstariahJW which bible verses support the belief that Jesus was an instrument?

[@AstariahJW]

@@AquarianAgeApostle Yes Jesus is our savior and king, but he is our only savior in the sense of being the only one (excluding God in heaven, the source of that salvation who sent him for this purpose) who gave us the opportunity for eternal salvation. This is explained in John 3:17: "Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." - NRSV. Jehovah is the source and jesus is the instrument Jehovah also used moses as a savior for Israelites

[@AquarianAgeApostle]

@@AstariahJW so the sun total of your entire ontology and low Christology whereby Jesus is reduced to a mere instrument is to be found in only one verse. A verse that refers to Jesus as God's Son? Tell me, do you have a son? A daughter perhaps? Is your son or daughter a mere instrument of *yours*? Or is he/she someone who is OF *you( because he/she is FROM you?

[@AstariahJW]

@@AquarianAgeApostle what you talking about ? Jesus isnt literally an instrument. GOD from the beginning purpose seed that with crush satan . The seed is jesus . Jesus was the perfect ransom to die on our behalf Jehovah sent his son into the world to die for us and he resurrected his son on the third day Jesus willingly offer himself up for us Jehovah is the source of salvation and jesus was part of it

[@mr.e1220]

This is awesome. I go a little further and I believe that exactly everything that Jesus is is what a believer today is and that they can even do greater works and the works of Jesus. I also believe the Bible was tampered with and mostly all metaphors. I believe we are divine and that we are gods and creators Like our father

[@rifaathanver1221]

From the Holy Quran about Trinity: Al Maidah Verse 5:116 And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" He will say, "Exalted, are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within me, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is the Knower of the unseen. Al Nisa Verse 4:171 O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. Al Mariam Verse 19:36 [Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.

[@onlymyself7225]

christian prince youtube channel is for you

[@solomondaniel7589]

Do you know the DNA of Jesus? Not knowing that it is impossible to understand Trinity.

[@mayugear3113]

I would like to see you to debate with Mr.David Wood!

[@mayugear3113]

@easin haque what is David Wood?

[@AquarianAgeApostle]

Forget for a moment the concept of a Trinity all together, and there's still a major exegetical nightmare; even with the most basic hermeneutical reading...... There are verses in the NT that show the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God. Theres no way around that.

[@lcenteno262]

Where in the Bible does it say the Spirit is God?

[@AquarianAgeApostle]

@@lcenteno262 Acts 5:3

[@lcenteno262]

@@AquarianAgeApostle This scripture presents a perfect example of how religionists ignore context, focusing on a single aspect of a verse to make it say something it clearly does not. Acts 5:3-4 is the verse that everyone uses to claim that the Holy Spirit is God. Why have so many stopped being like the Bereans and stop at one Bible verse? Jesus tells us clearly in John 10:35 that scripture cannot be broken. What most fail to realize is that Peter used a figure of speech in Acts 5. Now, if Peter actually thought that the Holy Spirit was God, he would have let Cornelius bow down to him in Acts 10, but no, for it is written: "As Peter was about to go in, Cornelius met him, fell at his feet, and bowed down before him. But Peter made him rise. “Stand up,” he said, “I myself am only a man.” (Acts 10:26) But he had the Holy Spirit, didn't he? Wouldn't that make him God according to Acts 5:3-4? The Holy Spirit (the hosts of heaven/angels of the Lord) are his messengers/ambassadors. What do ambassadors do? The person acts as a diplomat on behalf of a king or country (i.e. the Lord/kingdom of God) so if you spoke to the ambassador, you were just as well speaking to the king/ruler/government who sent him. In Genesis 32, we see this same figure of speech used by the angel of the Lord as well as Jacob for it is written: "The man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob. You have struggled WITH GOD and with men, and you have won; so your name will be Israel.” Jacob said, “Now tell me your name.” But he answered, “Why do you want to know my name?” Then he blessed Jacob. Jacob said, “I have SEEN GOD face-to-face, and I am still alive”; so he named the place Peniel." (Genesis 32:28-30) If Jacob actually wrestled with God, not only would he have lost, he would have died. If he would have seen God face to face, he would have died as only the Son has seen the Father (John 1:18) Now we read in Hosea 12:3-4 for it is written: "when Jacob grew up, he fought AGAINST GOD--he fought against an ANGEL and won." (Hosea 12:3-4) Are the angels God? Absolutely Not! (Hebrews 1:5-14). They are of God! Spirit of God! The breath (ruach) of God. We see this same figure of speech used again for it is written: “The LORD said, "I am going to make you like God to the king, and your brother Aaron will speak to him as your prophet.” (Exodus 7:1) Was Moses God? Absolutely not! He was the Lord’s ambassador sent on his behalf. “When you complain against Aaron, it is really against the LORD that you and your followers are rebelling.” (Numbers 16:11) Was Aaron God? Absolutely Not! Like Moses, Peter, and the Holy Spirit, he was the ambassador of the Lord and speaking and acting on his behalf. Hebrews 1 tells us outright the difference between Jesus and the Holy Spirt for it is written: "What are the ANGELS, then? They are SPIRITS who serve God and are SENT by him to HELP those who are to RECEIVE salvation." (Hebrews 1:14) Again, very clear. There is our HELPER. Jesus said no messenger is greater than the one who sends him (John 13:16). The holy host/angels of the Lord who were in the presence of God (Matt. 18:10) were sent by Christ (John 7:39). Are the holy hosts/angels God? No, they are of God. Christ said it himself that the Holy Spirit doesn't “speak on his own authority” and “reveals the truth about God” NOT is God. The Spirit will “show you the things to come” (John 16:13) Go back to Hebrews 1 the teaching is clear for it is written: “But when God was about to send his first-born Son into the world, he said, “All of God's angels must worship him.” (Heb. 1:6) So clearly, the Holy Spirit is not God but of God, Spirit of God. And just as Jesus said, scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35). AMEN!

[@emmanuelsalomon8954]

@@lcenteno262 so, is the Holy Spirit a person? or something else? In Acts 13:2 he Holy Spirit speak and said to separate Barnabas and Paul, Mark 3:28-29 Jesu speaks about blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. Sounds like a person to me and in Ephesians 4:30 says do not grieve the Holy Spirit. I believe only a person or being can be grieve or sorrowful.

[@lcenteno262]

@@emmanuelsalomon8954 They are defined as the holy angels (Heb. 1:14). Hebrews 1 tells us the differnce. Now, what is the meaning of Hebrew word Ruach? Ruach (pronounced roo-akh) is the Hebrew word for spirit, breath, or wind. When spoken, the word engages one’s breath and lungs. The first mention of Ruach in the Bible is in the very first chapter of Genesis - Genesis 1:2 to be exact: “And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit (Ruach) of God was HOVERING OVER the surface of the waters.” (Gen. 1:2) This verse points directly to Job 38:4-7 for it is written: Were you there when I made the world? If you know so much, tell me about it. Who decided how large it would be? Who stretched the measuring line over it? Do you know all the answers? What holds up the pillars that support the earth? Who laid the cornerstone of the world? In the DAWN OF THAT DAY the STARS SANG together, and the HEAVENLY BEINGS shouted for joy.” (Job 38:4-7) Jesus tells us scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35) The Spirit of God as he gave us the breath [ruach] of life (Genesis 2:7). “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath [ruach] of the Almighty gives me life.” (Job 33:4) Do you know how the hosts of heaven/holy angels were made? By the breath [ruach] of his mouth for it is written: “By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and ALL THE HOST of them by the BREATH of his mouth.” (Psalms 33:6) So if we were not made just of flesh, we would be……holy angels/hosts of heaven. “As soon as Jesus was baptized, he came up out of the water. Then heaven was opened to him, and he SAW THE SPIRIT OF GOD COMING DOWN like a dove and lighting on him.” (Matthew 3:16). Notice he saw it was the Spirit of God coming down, not a dove. It came down like a dove NOT IS A DOVE. I pointed to Hebrews 1:14 as the statement of fact about who the Holy Spirit is, now take a look at the description of the holy angles/hosts of heaven in Hebrews 1:7 for it is written: “But about the ANGELS God said, “God makes his angels WINDS, and his servants FLAMES OF FIRE.” (Hebrews 1:7) Now, go to Acts 2:2-4, you will find a similar description there when the apostles received the Holy Spirit for it is written: “Suddenly there was a noise from the sky which sounded like a STRONG WIND blowing, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then they saw what looked like TOUNGES OF FIRE which spread out and touched EACH PERSON there”. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to TALK IN OTHER LANGUAGES, as the SPIRIT ENABLED THEM TO SPEAK.” (Acts 2:2-4) Paul confirms this in 1 Cor. 13:1 for it is written: “Though I speak with the tongues of men and ANGELS” (How clear!) Paul continues confirm this in 1 Cor. 14:2 for it is written: “Those who speak in strange tongues DO NOT SPEAK TO OTHERS BUT TO GOD, because NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THEM. They are SPEAKING SECRET TRUTHS by the POWER of the SPIRIT”. (1 Cor. 14:2) “You know about Jesus of Nazareth and how God POURED OUT ON HIM the Holy Spirit and POWER. He went everywhere, doing good and HEALING all who were under the power of the Devil, for God was with him.” (Acts 10:38) And Jesus read from Isiah saying: “The SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,” (Luke 4:18) This statement is going to totally corroborate Jesus’ next statement of fact and prove without a shadow of doubt what the Holy Spirit is for it is written: “And he said to them, “I am telling you the truth: you will see heaven open and God's ANGELS going up and coming down on the Son of Man.” (John 1:51) And in the very next chapter the first miracle happens and all the miracles subsequently thereafter. Now to understand the above verses and know what the power of the Holy Spirit is, you have to read John 5:4 for it is written: “For an ANGEL went down at a certain season INTO the pool, and TROUBLED the water: WHOSEVER then FIRST after the troubling of the water stepped in was made WHOLE of WHATSOEVER disease he had.” (John 5:4) Understand, only ONE person was healed after the angel troubled the water. The holy angels had the power to heal only one person at a time which corroborates the statement of fact Jesus made in John 1:51 as the angels would ascend and descend upon him giving him the power to perform miracles. God’s power, the hosts of heaven/holy angels, the collective group known as the Holy Spirit working through Christ for it is written: “All the people tried to touch him, for POWER WAS GOING OUT FROM HIM and HEALING them all.” (Luke 6:19) “One day when Jesus was teaching, some Pharisees and teachers of the Law were sitting there who had come from every town in Galilee and Judea and from Jerusalem. The POWER of the Lord WAS PRESENT for Jesus to HEAL the sick”. (Luke 5:17) "But Jesus said, “Someone touched me, for I knew it when POWER WENT OUT OF ME.” (Luke 8:46) "But I have a witness on my behalf which is even greater than the witness that John gave: what I do, that is, the DEEDS my Father GAVE ME TO DO, THESE SPEAK ON MY BEHALF and SHOW that the Father has sent me.” (John 5:36) Jesus tells us who the Holy Spirit is again here in Mark 13:32 for it is written: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the ANGELS which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32) (take note: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) "If you are ashamed of me and of my teaching, then the Son of Man will be ashamed of you when he comes in HIS GLORY and in the GLORY OF THE Father AND of the HOLY ANGELS." (Luke 9:26) (take note: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) …..”In the presence of my Father and of his ANGELS I will declare openly that they belong to me.” (Rev 3:5) (take note: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) “And he said unto me, these sayings are faithful and true; and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his ANGEL to shew unto his servants the things which must be done shortly”. (Rev. 22:6) “I Jesus have sent mine ANGEL to TESTIFY unto you these things in the churches”. (Rev. 22:16) Paul tells us who the Holy Spirit is for it is written: "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the HOLY ANGELS I solemnly call upon you to obey these instructions without showing any prejudice or favor to anyone in anything you do”. (1 Timothy 5:21) (take note: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) “And God, who sees into our hearts, knows what the THOUGHT of the Spirit is; because the Spirit PLEADS with God on behalf of his people and in accordance with his will.” (Romans 8:27) Did you catch that? God knows the thought of the Spirit. It is separate from God as it also pleads with God, therefore, it cannot be God, but of God, the hosts of heaven/holy angels. Let the author of our faith, Jesus Christ, say it himself for it is written: “And when he had said this, he BREATHED on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. “ (John 20:22) Hope this helps. Continue to read and study your Bible in truth and spirit brother.

[@11304800]

Trinity before Nicea

[@henrymovses8424]

Why even go to the old historic people? The only source of truth shouldn’t be bible itself? These people not gods they just people that lived long time ago that’s it. You basically trying to say that if people lived so long time ago they almost holy or divine, even though I do see your point of developing trinity in the past. Bible clearly teaches otherwise - John 14:28 greater than me / 1 Cor.11:3 “Head of Christ is God”

[@emmanuelsalomon8954]

In Acts 10:25-26 Peter refused to accept being worship. Rev 19:9-10 the angel refused to be worshipped, God must be worship. Matthew 4:9-10 Jesus said worship only God. So, according to the Bible DO NOT WORSHIP Human, Angel or Created beings. Now in the following verses: Matthew 2:2, 2:11, 8:11, 9:18, 14:33, 15:25, 20:20, 28:9, 28:17, Mark 5:6, 15:9, Luke 24:52. Jesus Christ was worshipped by people and He received and accepted the worship. According to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation only God can be worship, you Mr. Finnegan as a Unitarian do not believe that Jesus Christ is not God. Then explain why the worship was accepted and received by Jesus Christ. who is lying now? YOU or JESUS CHRIST!

[@SmalltimR]

Read your Bible, the OT is filled with people worshiping angels, kings, judges and people of high regard without confounding GOD's commandments. With that said, the Old Testament shows Israel bowing down and worshiping YHWH and King David. And so while you may believe worshiping Jesus meant He must therefore be GOD Himself, it remains that the Bible does not support such a claim, in-that it is obvious that worship in-itself is not specific to that which is due to GOD, but moreso, where it can also encompass bowing-down before others in a show of reverence. PS. the men who came to worship Jesus' at birth did not come to worship GOD, but the King of the Jews. And so here again, the evidence does not support the claim, that Jesus who was now emptied of His divine nature, and who was lower than the angels on earth, was clearly not equal-to or GOD Himself.

[@CRoadwarrior]

@Emmanuel Salomon. Very good point. I've made this point myself, and it's so easy for people to make up lame-duck excuses and say that in the OT people worshipped (falsely) angels, kngs, judges, etc. But at the end of the day, we know that only God truly is worshipped and receives worship. Anyone else who receives worship and does not CORRECT those who falsely worship anyone who is not truly God is in essence saying He is worthy of worship and saying He is God. Honest people have to admit this. The problem is, we have too many dishonest people trying to hold on to dishonest and weak arguments just so they can have one against the deity of Jesus - even if it falls flat and doesn't work. lol

[@MakaiJohnkenneth]

The trinity as a word is not in bible It appears over 300 years after Christ ascended to heaven The definition is not in bible Jesus never taught it. What bible teaches on OT and NT is God is our father and creator Jesus is the Son of God and the promised messiah Father and son are purely metaphoric not biological as Quran intimates clearly. How can Allah have a son when he has no wife? The Holy Spirit also the Spirit of God proceeds from the father. The Son and the Spirit have divine values like omnipresence,Jesus says he will do what you ask the father in his name, They existed before creation

[@carolpastorino8208]

Acts2:38

[@angeliquaserenity5009]

With regards to Jn 10:28-30. I think you should consider a few things. You are just looking at how Jesus says the Father is greater than all and I think we should go deeper than that. Since you brought up Jn 14:28, I will later gladly tie in the Greek used for Greater with Jn 10:29 with Jn 14:28 later. At any rate, with regards to the Phraseology "None can snatch", not only Jesus is using similar language describing himself and the Father. Additionally, Jesus is using Old Testament language exclusive to Supreme Deity. We see in Deu 32:39, Isa 43:13 that none can deliver or snatch out of the hand of God. The Father and Son therefore were claiming equality with regards to eternal judgement and redemption. That is clearly a prerogative exclusive of God. Unless of course God ceased being alone in judgement and redemption and exalted a creature as a co-equal judge over all mankind. However, if we are going to make such an argument, then we must concede that the role of God changed when Jesus was revealed in the NT. I think not. As for Jn 17:22, are the believers going to be one as the Father and Son are in regards to administering eternal jjudgement? I think not. How can the believers not escape their own judgement ("None can snatch"). Hopefully by now you see why its silly to make a false comparison with Jn 17:22 in regards to Jn 10:28-30. Context is King. The Believer in relation to Jesus and the Father are going to be one in fellowship. On the other hand, the Father and Jesus are one in regards to the final judgement and redemption of mankind. And I promise you, you will never see a believer, Prophet or a Patriarch ever saying "None can snatch out of my hand". So then, what about the Greek of Jn 10:29 and Jn 14:28? The word used for "Greater" in the Greek is Meizon. We see the same word being used in Jn 14:12. Apparently, there is no qualitatively greater work than the Death, Resurrection of Jesus himself. Meizon describes one being quantitatively greater, not qualitatively greater. The Father is quantitatively greater than Jesus or greater in rank. A husband is greater in rank, yet co-equal to his wife iin nature and as an equal domestic partner. LIkewise, the Father is greater in rank, yet co-equal with Jesus in Office over creation and in nature. I Cor 10:3 conveys a similar concept. So no. Jn 14:28 does not slug out the equality of the Father and Jesus. Going back to Jn 10:28-30, the Father may be greater in rank in all, yet the Father and Jesus share equal nature and equal office, in particular the prerogative to judge and redeem creation. I Cor 15:23-28 actually works against Unitarian theology and actually supports Trinitarian theology. Please allow me to elaborate: Paul speaks in the FUTURE tense in regards to Jesus becoming Subject. Paul says "he will become subject" not something like "he has already become subject". If Jesus is to become subject, then by definition he is PRESENTLY NOT subject to the Father. And if Jesus is presently not subject to the Father, then by definition, he is Co-equal with the Father. BTW John Calvin was equal opportunity. He also persecuted and killed Trinitarians as well (Anabaptists in particular). I am not a Calvinist largely for that reason. (A different story for a different day)

[@stevonhampton2234]

SEAN WERE ALL THE EARLY CHURCH FATHER CATHOLIC?AND IS GOD A PERSON?

[@Episcopalianacolyte]

The ancient Greek Orthodox Church which uses the Greek in their worship and studies have always said that GOD is TRINITY. In fact all of the 2,000 year old churches founded by the apostles say that GOD is a TRINITY. They know Greek better than anyone. So you can believe men who deny the TRINITY or the ancient unchanged faith of the apostles.

[@jamiesimms7084]

Strange how you ignore the evidence

[@Episcopalianacolyte]

@@jamiesimms7084 Mathew 16 : 18.says the church cannot die (the gates of hades cannot prevail against it). John 14 : 26 and 15 26 tell us that the HOLY SPIRIT teaches the church and testifies about JESUS CHRIST. Jerusalem and Antioch set the standard as they always have. They are Trinitarian.

[@jamiesimms7084]

@@Episcopalianacolyte Good, well I'll just stick to the truth and be with God and not the status quo of a brainwashed education and bullying regime that indoctrinates and promotes the unholy doctrine of the trinity

[@Episcopalianacolyte]

@@jamiesimms7084 the _evidence_ is That both Jerusalem and Antioch fill the promise and both are taught by the HOLY SPIRIT. They are TRINITARIAN. Only they set the standard. Without the HOLY SPIRIT, man cannot believe.

[@Episcopalianacolyte]

@@jamiesimms7084 man manufactures evidence against the TRINITY, because they are not taught by the HOLY SPIRIT. Jerusalem and Antioch fill the promise and both are TRINITARIAN.

[@stclairjones815]

There is no such thing as pre-existence

[@AquarianAgeApostle]

The argument from logical inconsistency or paradoxical contradiction is erroneous and fallacious. God's ontology doesn't need to fit finite human reasoning. In fact, it's no stretch of the imagination to suspect that an intelligent being who exists outside of the realms of time and space would have a way more complex ontology than our logic could comprehend. Any man who places reason over faith as an epistemic necessity then such a man doesn't seek the things of God, instead he seeks the God of things.

[@philosophicalneo]

i like what you wrote, we need to have a disposition capable of accepting these teachings that did develop overtime. we cant confront the teaching because of a preconditioned assertion or reasoning. my question to unitarians is when Jesus says he would send the comforter or Holy Spirit, what do they think the Holy Spirit is doing with humanity now? we can answer being received in Baptism... but then what? clearly He is helping us understand God more fully and also helping us to live and become holier in a spiritual sense

[@RodMartinJr]

Yet you use logical fallacies yourself. You make Appeal to the Stone-type logical fallacies without actually addressing the points made in this video. Just because *_YOU_* cannot understand God's Truth does not mean no one can. In fact, Christ proved you wrong when he said that all we need to do is ask and we will receive. *_We can ask for God's wisdom in order to understand these things, and He will give to us that for which we ask._* The early church *_created_* trinity very cleverly out of nothing but wild interpretation of existing scripture. And then they built more lies based on their creation. Gradually, the church became more certain of itself *_(less humble to God),_* more hateful and more brutal, and *_less capable of performing miracles._* That you accuse others of being erroneous, fallacious and being incapable of understanding, you are *_not_* being humble to God, but to your own interpretation, likely borrowed from other men and their tradition. I grew up trinitarian (Southern Baptist), but gave that up at age 9, because I could not rest with such lies; God was calling me to something greater. But even after dozens of miracles, some of them replicated numerous times, I know that I have yet much more to learn. Though not all miracles are of the Father, those who cannot even raise their own spiritual selves up to the point of performing even one miracle, should not cast the first stone. ADDENDUM: Someone else's comment (DaDitka1985) prompted me to come back, because he made so much sense on this one point: *_You_* claim, "God's ontology doesn't need to fit finite human reasoning," yet you imply that you *_already know God's ontology!!! Thus, your statement reeks of hypocrisy and false humility! You imply that you know that God is "trinity," but that no one else can know otherwise, because of your own pretense at *_omniscience._* You "know" because you have scoured all 98 sextillion worlds, all 13.8 billion years of history, and have found nothing to contradict "trinity." That's what your blind *_certainty_* implies. Stop implying for yourself and your fellow trinitarians indefensible *_omniscience._*

[@brianguglielmin2873]

Its clear as day that Thomas called Jesus His Lord and His God. You overlook Divine Messiah of Daniel 7:13-14, the Baptismal formula in Name of Father, Son and Spirit. John 1:1 The Living Word become Flesh. God Incarnate, the First and the Last the Almighty is Jesus. Rev 22:13. You have gone too far with the heresies of your strange misinterpretations of God.

[@TheGuitarReb]

3 in 1 oil will loosen nuts.

[@pankaja7974]

Sean, When are you debating Anthony Rogers on the Trinity ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Lord Jesus is to be honoured JUST AS you honour the Father !!! good luck on judgement day

[@konstantinallinforchrist9867]

A delegate of the President is to be expected to be received as if you received the President. Tur delegate represents the President as if he was the President. Simple concept, really.

[@RodMartinJr]

@@konstantinallinforchrist9867 Well said. I use the same logic in one of my books. The ambassador speaks for the Prime Minister as if he were the Prime Minister. And pharaoh told Joseph, Here is my ring; you speak for me. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@DontYouWantToLiveForever]

What disproves the Trinity, and proves the Godhead is a Duality - is "ranking". The Trinity mandates F - S - HS must be co-equal in every way. Almighty God/Father has all power and authority in Himself, and has personal names. The Son has no authority, instead receives His authority from the Father (when He returns, hands the Kingdom back to the Father, and places Himself under His Father's authority for eternity - 1Cor 15:24), and He has personal names. A third person never received authority from the Father (this person never appears on the throne of God with the other two), never is included as being one with the Father and Son (as those two repeatedly are), has no requirement for mandatory belief to achieve life everlasting, and does not have even one personal name in either Testament. Jesus is not equal with God. He was God's servant on earth, a flesh and blood man. Jesus came forth from God, being the Most High's Word, before becoming flesh, but He voluntarily divested Himself of Divinity, being made even lower than the angels. The same way the Glory of the Lord filled the Lord's House, the Glory of the Lord filled Jesus' body of flesh, as He was the visible "image" of God, not being the actual personage of God, and was the dwelling place of His Holy Spirit (presence) "that holy thing" (Luke 1:35) while on earth. If a third person is equal to the Father in every way, and has the same essence, nature and Spirit, and all the same powers exactly, then Lord God duplicated Himself, and that is impossible - He shares His Glory with no other (this truth of itself negates a Trinity). The problem today, stems from the majority Roman Catholic priests who translated the King James from Greek, with words that are gender, into English, which has no gendered words, and made His Spirit into a man, instead of properly translating the gender neutral noun spirit as "it". His Spirit is not a person, "it" is neither male nor female, (see correctly translated verses below). Christ's Spirit, is not a person, same as His Father's Spirit is not a person (1Pet 1:11). When did Jesus ever pray for the three of them to be one? When did Jesus pray for us to be one with the three of them? There are two persons in the Godhead (not 3 snd not 1), Father and The Word (who later became the man of flesh, Jesus). Romans 8:16 KJV The *Spirit itself* beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Romans 8:26 KJV … but the *Spirit itself* maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 1 Peter 1:11 KJV Searching what, or what manner of time the *Spirit of Christ* which was in them did signify, when *_it testified_* beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Acts 2:17 KJV … I will pour out *of my Spirit* upon all flesh: … (Matt 10:20) For it is not ye that speak, but the *Spirit of your Father* which speaketh in you. Genesis 1:27 KJV So God created man in his own image, … *male and female* created he them. Genesis 2:24 … and *they shall be one* ... John 10:30 KJV I and my Father are one. John 17:21 KJV *That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:* that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 1 John 1:3 KJV ... *truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.* Revelation 19:13 KJV And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: *and his name is called The Word of God.*

[@jessenone3708]

just chant 3 is one over and over and you will ssee the truth.

[@IsJesusGod.]

Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand! Matthew 11:15. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the SON of God? 1 John 5:5. NOT GOD OR A TRINITY, but as St john has said: but he that believeth that Jesus is the SON of God? 1 John 5:5. And as Jesus has said: ETERNAL LIFE is believing His Father GOD is the only ONE TRUE GOD alone. John 17:3. Which is the FIRST commandment one MUST believe. Mark 12:29. The Hebrew text of Deuteronomy 6:4 says: Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is ONE: (PERSON). Hezekiah prayed before Yahweh, and said, "Yahweh, the God of Israel, who sit [above] the cherubim, YOU ARE THE GOD, EVEN YOU ALONE, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth. 2 Kings 19:15. World English Bible. Job 23:13: BUT HE ALONE IS GOD, and who can oppose him? God does as he pleases. The HEBREW text actually says GOD IS :בְ֭אֶחָד ḇə-’e-ḥāḏ [UNIQUELY] ONE.

[@jamiegilbert9785]

The same goes for Deuteronomy 6:4. In most English translations the verse says 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God is one.' However, according to the Masoretic text, that verse says (translated to English) 'Hear, [O] Israel. The LORD is our God. The LORD is one (echad in Hebrew with English letters)'.

[@IsJesusGod.]

@@jamiegilbert9785 Deuteronomy 6:4 Here is the correct translation 👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇 World English Bible Hear, Israel: *Yahweh is our God.* Yahweh is one. Trinitarians have removed our Father GOD's name, to Lord, to make people believe Jesus is GOD, as Jesus is also called Lord, which is another deception!

[@brianguglielmin2873]

Rod, of course we and the angels aren't God but a denial of the Son being God our Lord and Savior is a Denial of God and loss of your Salvation. Don't go to the grave in such a state I would ask.

[@lawrence1318]

If Jesus wasn't God His death wouldn't set people free from the law. Jesus' death sets people free from the law. Therefore Jesus is God. Q.E.D

[@MakaiJohnkenneth]

There is need to explain these verses from Tanakh Genesis God appeared to the patriarchs Abraham ...the visitor he met who he addressed as Lord judge of all the earth ,ate food washed feet and conversed with him Hagar said she had seen God face to face when she met angel of the Lord Jacob is told by angel of the Lord I am God you met in bethel Moses..in the fire the angel of the Lord is seen but I've says I am God of your father Abraham Isaac Jacob Exodus.God talked to Moses face to face in the cloud which descended in tent entrance and he saw his for. In judges Manoah and wife see angel of the Lord and declare we have seen God Then in Joshua He sees a man who tells him remove your shoes this is holy ground. Explain these about God who even descended and talk to Adam in the cool of the day. Listen to PhD holders and Jews Dr. Benjamin Sommers Dr.Boyirin Daniel Both exhaust the tanakh in God in heaven and in the temple on earth. The manifestations of God. The Spirit if God and the watt Jesus speaks about who he is ,they're manifestations of God with authority

[@dayakarrao2206]

My question is again the same "what is Sean Finnegan? People who are under this launcher need to answer this.

[@reynaldolomio3844]

Jesus born of virgin Mary. Christjesus who gave himself for the ramsom of many (man and women), Jesuschrist name of the Father Son and Holyghost. Jesuschrist (Word of God) 1 John 5 ::7 kingJames version.

[@philosophicalneo]

i appreciate these discussion that have the intent of disproving the Trinity and then actually give fair analysis to support it even more so. his analogy of 3 persons are human but not the same is so eye-opening. for we are all equal and human yet different persons, and when we become one with the body of Christ who is one with the Father, then we can share in that unity of the Holy Spirit. Amazing analogy to prove the Trinity!

[@konstantinallinforchrist9867]

You actually just stumbled on a real trinity: ☆ Father, Jesus and the true church, the Body of Christ. They are one in Spirit but they are not the same being of course. Sean's example of the 3 humans, who all have a human nature and are not each other is still lacking in analogy as those 3 humans are not one being. The teaching of the trinity is riddled with contradictions and violates language and logic. All we have to ask is this: 1. Is there are any other God but Jesus' God? No. His God is God the Father. 2. Was the jew Jesus the messiah, who made his God known to the world, a trinitarian? No. Mark 12:28-34; John 17:3. Case closed.

[@philosophicalneo]

@@konstantinallinforchrist9867 is it right to assume Unitarians dont worship Christ because they dont believe Him to be God incarnate?

[@konstantinallinforchrist9867]

@@philosophicalneo No that is wrong. That is based on the false assumption that only God can be worshipped/receive worship.

[@philosophicalneo]

@@konstantinallinforchrist9867 then whom else do you worship besides God as a Unitarian Christian?

[@konstantinallinforchrist9867]

@@philosophicalneo God's Anoited One, God's Christ Jesus who sits on the Throne of God and wields God's authority. Take a look at those examples - it is the same situation: Chronicles 29:20,23 [20]And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king. [23]Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him. ☆ King David was God's anoited, God's Christ and sat on the Throne of God. The people worshipped BOTH the Lord God and their King David who was God's King. Now it came about after the death of Saul, when David had returned from the slaughter of the Amalekites, that David remained two days in Ziklag. On the third day, behold, a man came out of the camp from Saul, with his clothes torn and dust on his head. And it came about when he came to David that he fell to the ground and prostrated himself. - 2 Samuel 1:1-2 We have PLENTY examples of people being worshipped in the scriptures that were not God. Just take a concordance and do a word study on the word "worship". ---- You cannot go wrong if you just listen to what Jesus believed and taught about God.

[@tyowongndeso]

of course not, becoz between john 1:1 and john 1:14 there are 12 verse that explain the logos and how it connected to john 1:14, the 12 other verses definitely rejected your idea that Logos in john 1:1 mean divine's plan.

[@RodMartinJr]

Very poorly argued. You make claims of fact, but never back them up with reasoning. So many other verses show Jesus NOT to be God, including many statements made directly by Jesus. Your weak argument is destroyed and you didn't even attempt to protect it.

[@tyowongndeso]

@@RodMartinJr Really? Poor argument? It's just facts. There's a lot of NT verses showing that he is divine, and also just like you said, a lot showing he's a man. So how you deal with it? For it's impossible for a man become God, and not the other way around. To take your view and agree with it, I have put aside all the verses that shows Jesus's divinity. For instance Jesus asked his disciples to pray to him (too), ho a mere man able to listen to all people prayer? It's you my friend who has a really poor argument against trinitarian. And about John1 how can a PLAN can own something? How can a plan become the light of men? Isn't that a reason why we should rejected the interpretation that it means "plan"?

[@RodMartinJr]

@@tyowongndeso No. Claims of fact without reasoning to support them are a hypothesis in search of testing. You gave conclusions without showing your work. If you had been one of my college students, I would have failed you for your "truncated logic." You assume too much. I left the trinitarian doctrine 63 years ago, and have never found any reason to go back to it. I remain humble to Truth and keep searching to perfect my own imperfect understanding, but you seem incapable of such humility. You assume, for instance, that there is only one possible interpretation for the claims made by Christ that *_you_* interpret as his "divinity." There are lots of definitions for "divine" besides that of being The God. Christ is divine, but he is NOT God, as many of the verses you ignore indicate. Jesus is the first to graduate from this training ground called "physical universe." And he came back to help out his *_"friends"_* (his word! not "his subjects"). Praying to him is very compatible with him NOT being God, for he is the only one, to my knowledge to have made it to Heaven and to be working from that divine location. Mere man? You think there are only two possible entities? God and man? There are also angels who are in *_timeless Heaven,_* and thus are also "I AM" and never "I was" or "I shall be." As to your last question: No! God's Truth is spiritual in nature. You are thinking physically in nature. You are relying on the physical *_"ink"_* of scripture rather than its spirit. You are humble to dogma and your current, *_imperfect_* belief. Stuck on the road back to Heaven. And Christ said that the way is narrow and difficult; yet you make it sound "broad and easy." There are 2.3 Billion Christians on Earth, most of them trinitarians. And Christ said that many would be called, but few chosen. Could it be that trinity *_blocks_* you ever making it to Heaven? I on the other hand know that I don't know everything and keep searching for Truth. I now know with a certainty that I will never find Truth in the physical universe, for it is entirely spiritual. Trinity *_blasphemes_* against the Holy Spirit, and thus commits the only unforgivable sin. Reference: *_Trinity Treason: How the church betrayed its flock with the only unforgivable sin_*

[@tyowongndeso]

@@RodMartinJr basically your argument agree that Jesus claim divinity, but according to you divinity doesnt mean that he's god. that''s actually enough for me to reject that interpretation, because the only being who's divine and uncreated is God, belive in more than one deities, is polytheis. that's it. the reason why i reject such interpretation is as simple as that. it's fine by me if you dont understand trinity, trinity describes the complexity of God. and i think you agree that God in his true form is complex, beyond our comprehension. but i tell you, you shouldnt believe in unitarian understanding of Jesus, coz make a created being worthy of worship that can only given to God is blasphemy. i know unitarian use some verses to show that Jesus is "created" BUT when NT testament writer said that NOTHING came into BEING without HiM, is you should know that "Him" must be uncreated being. because if he is, logically it's false.

[@RodMartinJr]

@@tyowongndeso You really need to get out more often. Look up the definition. You'll find many definitions which are NOT "God!"

[@kevindiaz-lane4404]

Is Jesus God?.... He "Jesus Christ" or "I am" was pre-existent: before any human being (which includes Abraham), before creation, before angels - he is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending ... still implies time. The firstfruit of all God's creatures. [1Co 15:20-28 NET] 20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; then when Christ comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then comes the end, when he [Christ] hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he [Christ] has brought to an end all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he [Christ] must reign until he [God] has put all his enemies under his [Christ's] feet. 26 The last enemy to be eliminated is death. 27 For he [God] has put everything in subjection under his [Christ's] feet. But when it says "everything" has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one [God] who put everything in subjection to him [Christ]. 28 And when all things are subjected to him [Christ], then the Son himself will be subjected to the one [God] who subjected everything to him [Christ], so that God may be all in all. God is the head over Christ and takes back ALL authority, once Christ "has brought to an end all rule and all authority and power" [1Co 11:3 NET] 3 But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. He is the ONLY begotten of the Father. Jesus Christ proceeded directly from the Father, everything else through Christ. [Jhn 1:3, 10 NET] 3 All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. ... 10 He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him. Christ marks the beginning, God transcends time (which requires space and matter). You might say that Jesus Christ IS "The Big Bang" [Pro 8:22-31 NET] 22 The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. 23 From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before the world existed. 24 When there were no deep oceans I was born, when there were no springs overflowing with water; 25 before the mountains were set in place - before the hills - I was born, 26 before he made the earth and its fields, or the beginning of the dust of the world. 27 When he established the heavens, I was there; when he marked out the horizon over the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above, when the fountains of the deep grew strong, 29 when he gave the sea his decree that the waters should not pass over his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 30 then I was beside him as a master craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, rejoicing before him at all times, 31 rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth, and delighting in its people. [1Jo 4:2 NET] 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh is from God, Notice this does NOT say "Every spirit that confesses Jesus as God who has come in the flesh" Jesus never claimed to be God! When Jesus asked the disciples: [Luk 9:20 NET] 20 Then he said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Peter answered, "The Christ of God." Peter could have answered "God" or "God the Son", but instead answered "The Christ of God" or "The Christ from God" 656 times in the Gospels onward, he is referred to as "The Son of God", some by others including demons, most by Jesus himself. In the Hebrew [Yhios Theos] or Greek, the words for "son" and "God" could have been exchanged and still obey the rules of the language rendering "God the Son" [Theos Yhios], but that is not The Word of God. [Jhn 10:29-30 NET] 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father's hand. 30 The Father and I are one." When Jesus said "The Father and I are one", he is not claiming to be God, because he also said: [Jhn 17:11 NET] 11 I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them [his disciples] safe in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. "so that hey may be one just as we are one"... this implies one in unity, not in identity, otherwise it implies that we (believers) can be God, just like Jesus is God!

[@billyhw5492]

Aquinas wept.

[@lawrence1318]

The Trinity is witnessed within our DNA. Therefore it is correct.

[@MrBlakeD82]

[Citation Needed]

[@lawrence1318]

@@MrBlakeD82 No citation is possible.

[@MrBlakeD82]

@lawrence1318 so, basically... You: make claim Me: "provide evidence" You: "Nuh-uh." The reason no citation is possible is because you are making a false claim. The Trinity is not apparent, or witnessed, in our DNA, nor is God's name, or any other such nonsense. In fact, most of the early church fathers were not Trinitarian in belief, and those that did believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit were parts of the same essence, the Son was subordinate to the Father, as the Spirit was subordinate to the Son. Most of these men cited what we now know as John 14:28 to back up this belief, as Jesus says "The Father is greater than I." The Trinitarian Foundational scripture, 1 John 5:7, was found in no original Greek manuscript, and is not found in the Latin until over 300 years after Jesus's death. It could be argued that the first gospel, Mark, holds an adoptionist theology, and that the 'eternal nature' of Jesus wasn't fully embraced until the last gospel, John.

[@lawrence1318]

@@MrBlakeD82 *_The reason no citation is possible is because you are making a false claim_* No. The reason is that it is not possible for the original author of an idea to cite a foregoing author on the same idea. I'm the original author. So then, we see that you're not too bright on 2 counts: 1. You assume that an idea being presented must have been presented by someone else earlier. 2. You imply that a citation represents a terminus, and yet at the same time once presented with a citation, necessarily by your own reasoning of (1) above would demand a yet further citation preceding the first. _Argumentum ab auctoritate ad infinitum._ So then, all this combined with your resistant attitude, renders you an unworthy recipient of the knowledge I could impart to you on the matter at hand.

[@John8_43-44]

Finally... some common sense! I'm so pleased to hear the words of a New Christian! God bless you brother. Jesus is not God the Father, Jesus is our God! Matthew 28, 18-19 John 20, 28-29 John 20, 17

[@Love2LoveGOD22]

But isn't it written that God can't be tempted? So but Jesus has been tempted by the devil in the desert. What do you think of this?

[@John8_43-44]

@@Love2LoveGOD22 could you reference me that quote please? I know that Jesus said in Matthew... do not put the Lord thy God to the test, referencing Deuteronomy. The Father, God Almighty is Jesus's God. Jesus is our God, the God of Mankind, hence the Son of Man! It was his life, his work, and his resurrection that gave him his reward. His very own Kingdom!

[@Love2LoveGOD22]

@@John8_43-44 James 1, 13: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: Bible (KJV)

[@Love2LoveGOD22]

@@John8_43-44 If we stay biblical there is not said that God are 3 persons or figures in 1 God. As the trinity concept was made by men a few hundred years later it's really the best to read the bible once without the "trinity glasses" and just read verse by verse as it is written. Often then first we can see that the trinity is wrong. There are so many where Jesus says the father is higher than me or above me and many that says, only the father is God. Why can't we let Jesus be "just" his son, that doesn't lessen Jesus Christ in any way I'd say. Yes, he is our Lord and savior. The father gave everything into his hands, and I believe that he is the *Son* of God who died for our sins and was resurrected by *his father, God* on the 3rd day

[@John8_43-44]

@@Love2LoveGOD22 As I follow only the word's and teachings of my Lord Jesus, I do not follow or worship a trinity. That would be following false teachings. This is true Christian teachings. John 14:17 John 14:23 Free yourself from their lies! John 8:31-32 8:36

[@icanaja8192]

Bu bb but what about islam? 😳

[@123dsj123]

A “personhood” is not a human being. A “personhood” is the ability to think, to reason, and to be consciously aware of oneself. The Christian concept of a rock: A rock is one being with no personhood - there is no person (or personhood) inside the oneness of a rock. Therefore, a rock has no reference point from which to think, to reason, or to be consciously aware of itself. The Christian concept of a man: A man is one being with one personhood - there is one person (or personhood) inside the oneness of a man. Therefore, a man has one reference point from which to think, to reason, and to be consciously aware of himself. The Christian concept of God: God is one Being with three different Personhoods - there are three different Persons (or personhoods) in the “Oneness of God.” Therefore, God has three different reference points from which to think, to reason, and to be consciously aware of Himself. * The message of the Bible: Over 2,000 years ago, one of the three Persons (or personhoods) within the “Oneness of God” took upon Himself a human flesh by way of the Virgin Mary; and He dwelled amongst us - mankind. He died for the sins of mankind. Three days later, the God in whom there are three different Persons raised Him back to life. * Such is so great a love, a mercy, and a compassion for humanity made possible by God, Himself. It could never be done by Allah, by a man, or by a demon - each of whom has only one person within his “oneness.” Only the “One True God” who is more within Himself, and who is different from our kind can accomplish such great a deed for us. God is one - He is alone; but He is not alone within Himself (or within His Oneness).

[@AnHebrewChild]

Interesting comment. Thanks. I believe in one God; and that the Father is God, that the Son is God and that the Holy Ghost is God but I shy away from using the terms "trinity" and "persons." I find it's safer to stick to scriptural language wherever we can. At any rate, I still do appreciate what you wrote. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. Have a nice day / be blessed. > < Mat10 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but **the Spirit of your Father** which speaketh in you. Mrk13 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but **the Holy Ghost.** Luk21 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: for **I** will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.