Where Did the Trinity Come From?

Рет қаралды 329,950

Bart D. Ehrman

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 3 000

@BrianTylerComposer Жыл бұрын

The trinity isn’t mysterious. It’s just nonsense. There is a difference.

@stevebeeney9022 6 ай бұрын

Amen

@matthewmeyer347 5 ай бұрын

Not really since everything we create today is also triune. Take a software program for instance. There is an interface (which is both human and machine) that interacts with the human being inputting data. This then manipulates the second part of the trinity, the database, and behind all of this, we have the program language itself. The third part of the trinity.

@roberthannah7983 5 ай бұрын

The software program acts on the database, but is not part of it. In an analogous fashion, God casts fire and brimstone upon the sinners, but they are not part of him. Jesus cried "father, why have you forsaken me?" He and the father obviously were not one at that point. @@matthewmeyer347

@micimaco9509 5 ай бұрын

@@matthewmeyer347 yes they are 3 different things so there are 3 different gods

@domi8653 5 ай бұрын

@@micimaco9509 It's literally one program

@markdeboy8392 Жыл бұрын

This should be renamed "The Most Distracting Glasses Every Designed with Bart Ehrman."

@eliewhelms3275 Жыл бұрын

Cute! No¿

@singingsavage3056 Жыл бұрын

haha you nailed it

@x0rn312 10 ай бұрын

@@singingsavage3056no he almost nailed it, he misspelled ever

@biblebadcopycatofcuneiform8210 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, I had a very challenging time when I'd look at her. All I see is a large horizontal S.. I have a very hard time looking at people's faces when they have a lot of tattoos or animal piercings. I have to look away when talking to them. This was the same thing.

@spaceman081447 10 ай бұрын

@@biblebadcopycatofcuneiform8210 A large vertical S? The S looks horizontal to me.

@adamzandarski8933 8 ай бұрын

I love the intro because it’s like” the only show where Bart Ehrman does Bart Ehrman things” but it doesn’t sound like that if you don’t think about it too much

@DJMarcO138 Жыл бұрын

Megan's glasses are messing with my brain today. I love them, but could never wear a frame like that without going cross-eyed, lol.

@TheSoteriologist Жыл бұрын

And this is what her likes are intending to do, IMO, which is why I had recommended under earlier episodes to look away from the screen to avoid seizures.

@DJMarcO138 Жыл бұрын

@@TheSoteriologist I dunno about all that

@TheSoteriologist Жыл бұрын

@@DJMarcO138 Bezmenov 84 _“Demoralisation“_ and _“destabilization“_

@charlespolk5221 Жыл бұрын

Yeah, the whole "half of infinity" thing is messing with my head. Sort of like the concept of the Trinity.

@mytwocents7481 Жыл бұрын

The glasses are like when you see a picture hanging crooked on a wall. You naturally want to reach out and adjust it. But you can't!!!!

@BanjaraHillbillies Жыл бұрын

I'm a graduate of Anglican Seminary. Bart's lectures send me back in time. The difference? I stay awake during these videos!

@kencreten7308 Жыл бұрын

Thanks. That made me laugh.

@qpiter Жыл бұрын

@@kencreten7308 What there to understand? Nothing, nonsense.

@tinacorinn Жыл бұрын

OMG. She needs new glass frames. Can't watch or even listen to this. It seems she is as peculiar as her eyeglasses. Lululooney.

@bayreuth79 Жыл бұрын

Anglican? Oh dear.

@GlobalAtlantis101 Жыл бұрын

@@bayreuth79 no division in Christ please

@mojoman2001 4 ай бұрын

When you make up stories as you go along, you sometimes have to stretch to reconcile them.

@thewb8329 Жыл бұрын

Interesting how divine doctrine was made by human consensus.

@kencreten7308 Жыл бұрын

Well... uh.. you know, like ... uh, God was ... uh, what's the word, right, guiding people and stuff! heh Except for all those copying mistakes and editing over time.

@papie5151 Жыл бұрын

Wow, very true.

@tongakhan230 Жыл бұрын

And that too with a pagan directing affairs. Compare Acts 20:30.

@thewb8329 Жыл бұрын

@@tongakhan230 That’s also pretty much the case with the literature of the Bible.

@tongakhan230 Жыл бұрын

@@thewb8329: The books included in the Bible were all complied with God's direction. That is why the Bible has been translated into over 3,000 languages. No other book has even reached the 100 translation mark. The Bible has survived despite attempts to have it destroyed. It must surely be of value to any TRUTH seeker.

@davidchess1985 Жыл бұрын

So... basically they couldn't figure out any way to resolve the obvious inconsistencies that had piled up in the doctrine, and threw up their hands and said "it's a divine mystery"?

@TheKingofdans Жыл бұрын

😂😂 basically

@TullipPetal Жыл бұрын

Same with science. Just look at quantum physics.

@davidchess1985 Жыл бұрын

@@TullipPetal Ummm. No? Science works hard to find consistent explanations; it doesn't just say "it's a mystery!" and stop there.

@MarioCabradilla 10 ай бұрын

Search Eli Soriano's doctrines. There is no mystery in there.Eli Soriano explained better.

@davidchess1985 10 ай бұрын

@@MarioCabradilla well yeah :) He doesn't believe in the Trinity, so he has it easy; he just considers the three to be different entities (depending on exactly which of his statements you read). But the Catholics can't use that method. :)

@davidbackstrom8293 Жыл бұрын

The easiest way to explain Trinity is on the background of the Roman imperial cult where the dead Caesars was the fathers in the sky, the son being the word being the ruling emperor and the spirit being the genius of Rome which the emperor was supposed to be the incarnation of.

@DEPoole-me3mf 8 ай бұрын

Very interesting. Is there a book about this?

@mohdmubarakabrazak9055 4 ай бұрын

More confusing

@marktravis5162 Жыл бұрын

Actually reading the Bible for what it says and what’s written is why I rejected the Trinity

@jerkojerkic9349 Жыл бұрын

1 John 5:5-9 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

@marktravis5162 Жыл бұрын

@@jerkojerkic9349 Which proves my point

@tiedeman39 Жыл бұрын

@@jerkojerkic9349You are aware 1 John 5:7 is a later addition, right? It isn't in any of the oldest manuscripts that we have.

@dazzadizzy5308 Жыл бұрын

@@jerkojerkic9349 Who was filling the role as "the word" because that was Jesus previously.?

@jerkojerkic9349 Жыл бұрын

@@dazzadizzy5308 The Word of God is Jesus Christ.

@joejohnson6327 Жыл бұрын

The fact that according to Christian doctrine Jesus prayed to himself & begged himself to spare himself before he was crucified because it was his will that he be gruesomely murdered is just mind-blowing. 🥴

@ji8044 Жыл бұрын

You can't bring that up. Their answer will always be "You don't understand". Which of course can be translated as "I don't understand, and so can't explain it to you either"

@joejohnson6327 Жыл бұрын

@@ji8044 Blessed are those who aren't brain-raped by the aggressively religious...

@tongakhan230 Жыл бұрын

Not Christian doctrine. But church doctrines. No Christian will worship their leader Jesus. That is why they are Jesus' DISCIPLES.

@joejohnson6327 Жыл бұрын

@@tongakhan230 Whether you like it or not, most people on this planet who call themselves Christians think that Jesus is God, not merely a leader, & they worship him.

@tongakhan230 Жыл бұрын

@@joejohnson6327 : Please read Jesus' words to the MANY so-called Christians before he does away with them (Matthew 7:23). Christians are DISCIPLES of Jesus. Not his worshipers. (John 13:35) By this all will know that you are MY DISCIPLES-if you have love among yourselves.”

@teachpeace3750 Жыл бұрын

I love the point about Tertullian and how his writings came to be persevered because they just happened to fall in line with future consensus regarding the doctrine of the Trinity. Really makes you wonder what we lost to history from opposing viewpoints.

@monnieeeeyt7037 Жыл бұрын

I like listening to him. He proves religion is nothing but men sitting on a panel discussion creating a religion for the gullible

@andrelegeant88 Жыл бұрын

@@monnieeeeyt7037 I don't really think Bart would agree that that is what religion is...

@josepholeary3286 Жыл бұрын

Yes, Tertullian is a preternatural genius. His Adversus Praxean is a short text bristling with so much of the later technical terminology but with a somewhat different sense (clarified in 1966 in the four volume study, La théologie trinitaire de Tertullian by Joseph Moingt SJ - who died a few years ago, still churning out massive books at age 104). He was also a brilliant writer, stylist, etc.

@termsofusepolice Жыл бұрын

Tertullian was not "in line" with what came to be the orthodox view on the divinity of Christ. Tertullian used the metaphor of sunlight streaming through a window to explain the relationship between the father and the son. He said that just as one will refer to a sunbeam on the wall as "the sun" while knowing that the sun itself is a separate, burning body in the sky, so too one may refer to Jesus as "God", knowing that God, Himself, is a separate and distinct Being who only shines through Christ.

@LeoVital 9 ай бұрын

That's why I find it amusing when Christians dismiss certain ideas as heresies. Heresies are just the theories that had less powerful supporters who lost the historical debate. Which is why there are so many Christian denominations, and many of them disagree completely with all the others.

@andybeans5790 Жыл бұрын

I think the Trinity is a prime example of design-by-committee 😉

@grneal26 Жыл бұрын

indeed. and a man made concept. Tertullian actually didn't believe in the Trinity the same way it is described at the Nicene creed.

@jeffryphillipsburns Жыл бұрын

Not in the way Bart describes it. The Trinity is not an amalgamation or mish-mash of opposing or just different views. The committees merely chose the Trinity notion over competing views; they didn’t create it.

@gabitamiravideos Жыл бұрын

😂

@ob2249 Жыл бұрын

@@jeffryphillipsburns they "mereIy ch0se" it 0ver reaIity and truth b0II0x is b0II0x

@ianalan4367 Жыл бұрын

The concept of the Trinity existed long before the councils canonized it into official doctrine.

@roberthawes3093 Жыл бұрын

There are serious logical and scriptural problems with the doctrine of the Trinity, but merely suggesting that it ought to be reconsidered is tantamount to blasphemy in most Christian circles. A couple of church councils met a long time ago and decided the matter, and, apparently, no one is allowed to question their assessment.

@kencreten7308 Жыл бұрын

@@ObjectiveEthics You know... some other people said religion is about money. Now you're saying it's about control. I'm an atheist. I say religion is very complicated. If people come to something as simple as "control" or, "money." That definition is for their ease thought, perhaps, not for the sake of truth. Because the truth is far more complicated. That being said, I think no one likes to have their beliefs questions whether they firmly believe that BMW cars are the best, or belonging to a particular political group because they are - right, or believing in various Christian ideas.

@Critic-qn3hg Жыл бұрын

The I have a problem with, Jesus being God,,😢 the Bible says he received immortality 😮 1st Timothy 6 verse 16 if Jesus is internal,, or not created, no beginning or no end, is that a bonus receiving immortality?, doesn't make sense, that's what I would have brought up at the, meaning of bishops, Revelation 1 verse 18 I was alive I was dead and behold I live into the ages of ages,,,, so he receives it after he died immortality a New Creation,,, we will be like Jesus, I would be hanged for saying that? We will be like Jesus and receive and put on immortality 1st Corinthians 15 verses 53 must read: so one of the internal or un created divine or the 3God head's, Jesus received immortality, the word means you have to be mortal to receive immortality if I was there, I would have mentioned that and 1st Corinthians 8 verse 5 & 6 many gods, many lords/ 6 to us (true Christian's) one God the father, one Lord Jesus, too easy to understand,,, your critic ❓🤔🧐

@greglogan7706 Жыл бұрын

Robert, Well said!!

@Critic-qn3hg Жыл бұрын

@@greglogan7706 Robert I don't know if you're talking about my comments,? Straight to the point, 👉 Jesus died for us 🙏 a lot of people don't even know what die for us? Amazing,,, did Jesus ,his soul died for us, his body or flash? Or his spirit? One of them, two of them 🤔 or all of them 🤔❓ your critic ❓🤔🧐

@Praise___YaH Жыл бұрын

Guys, HERE is The Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER (Genesis 1) HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"

@kalynkilgore9164 9 күн бұрын

I'm no scholar but..did not God say I am One..there is no other before me

@eurech Жыл бұрын

I wrote an essay about the Trinity when I was in high school, I used Bart as one of my main sources and I ended up getting an A. The course was called 'Religion - Specialization'. Thanks Bart!

@harharharharharharharharha240 Жыл бұрын

In high school? Never knew people took theology in high school, very cool though! Congrats on the A!

@eurech Жыл бұрын

In Sweden we have 'specialization' courses in virtually all subjects, including religion. In those courses its all about producing a scientific research on chosen topics.@@harharharharharharharharha240

@tongakhan230 Жыл бұрын

Doesn't sound factual. Sorry! What can anyone write about the Trinity. It had to be a question. 'Is the Trinity scriptural or not'.

@eurech Жыл бұрын

@@tongakhan230 You're wrong, though.

@Cashew10 Жыл бұрын

*True Jesus is in Islam* * *Jews/Judaism rejects Jesus* as a prophet/God's messenger. * *Christians believe that* Jesus was God incarnate and died as a sacrifice to redeem humans' sin. * *Islam confirms who Jesus really was.* Jesus/Isa was sent by God to Israelites to teach monotheism & enforce God's law. (Quran 61:6, 4: 157-158, 5:72, 5:116-118, 19:21,32, , etc) In the Gospel, *Jesus himself said he came/was sent only to Israelites.* He told Jews to worship God only and to teach Torah (of course to practice its law as well). (John 17:3, Matthew 5: 17-19, 10:6, 15:24, etc). Some important laws in the Torah & OT: * *God in Torah/OT is not human,* not born from a woman's womb, invisible, and will never die. (Genesis, Hosea, etc). * *God in the Torah/OT strongly prohibits human sacrifice,* since it was pagan and witch practice (Leviticus, Jeremiah, etc). The true Jesus is in Islam. So, *find out more about true Islam* from credible sources.

@kintyre7 Жыл бұрын

Thanks, Megan and Bart for a good video. Your contributions to the debates concerning Christianity are always enlightening. We would have been much poorer - spiritually and intellectually without it.

@theguyver4934 Жыл бұрын

Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

@wg6338 4 ай бұрын

" My Father is greater than I "

@jayseth 3 ай бұрын

"I and the Father are one"

@wg6338 3 ай бұрын

@@jayseth Have a look at John 20:17

@smeatonlighthouse4384 2 ай бұрын

Read Philippians ch. 2 in the New Testament and see why the Lord Jesus, though God and co equal with God, could still say, My Father is greater than I.

@liberatedspirit3554 Ай бұрын

@@jayseth Jesus also says we and him are 1 doesn't make us God. Neither does it make him GOD. We are to be one with Jesus as he is one with the Father... One in purpose, one in Righteousness

@zilefn9212 Жыл бұрын

I just want to say how much I appreciate and love these podcasts. You guys are great together. (And Megan's glasses are nuts, but swimming lessons followed by day care and then teaching Sumarian is so cool, random sartorial excess doesn't matter.)

@samflynn3670 Жыл бұрын

The glasses really bothered me for some reason...lol.

@sidstovell2177 Жыл бұрын

@@samflynn3670Attention - getting? I love the glasses and delighted not to see strangely-colored hair.

@zapkvr Жыл бұрын

@@samflynn3670 Well they are tad peculiar but whats life without a little eccentricity.

@stuartzalka Жыл бұрын

The glasses keep me feeling that either I'm cross-eyed or Megan is.

@tonyharvell739 Жыл бұрын

Great episode. I could never believe in the Trinity based on logic which troubled me when I was a believer. Dr. Ehrman actually reinforced my lack of belief. Megan's Eyewear is "the bomb" (good).

@tresgooch Жыл бұрын

Great lesson. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Megan- that is probably the coolest looking pair of glasses I’ve ever seen.

@papaarnie Жыл бұрын

Bart and Megan explain the "mysteries" about Christianity in a coherent and logical fashion. As they turn out, religion is man-made and subject to the whims and guiles of their perpetrators who are masters in the art of mass psychology. Really, the paradigm is applicable to politics, economics, and all matters that concern humanity. Thank you, Bart and Megan, for such enlightening videos!

@bubbag8895 Жыл бұрын

Idk dude.. YHWH gave Moses the Law. Unless you don't believe Moses or YHWH. Don't piss of YHWH

@miketaylor9517 10 ай бұрын

@@bubbag8895Ummm the word of god is unutterable dude… paradox

@Thomas20249 10 ай бұрын

Christianity is man made

@Thomas20249 10 ай бұрын

@@bubbag8895 The name YAHWEH is not mentioned in the New Testament at all

@samkb6374 4 ай бұрын

You go from Christianity to every religion which is made up by humans. Generalization is a weakness of your claim.

@phdw9834 Жыл бұрын

How can one with a logical mind accept the trinity as true? Honestly I will never be able to fathom that.

@oliverbrownlow5615 Жыл бұрын

One accepts it not with a logical mind, but by faith.

@phdw9834 Жыл бұрын

@@oliverbrownlow5615 the same can be said to support any fallacy. You have to put the bar somewhere

@veseyvonveitinghof9593 Жыл бұрын

@@oliverbrownlow5615 ...faith in what ?? Because some pope said so ?? No way, the Bible clearly shows that the trinity is nonsense. I put my faith in the written word not what some confused people voted on.Truth is not up to a vote, either it is or is'nt...

@marymegrant1130 Жыл бұрын

The same could be said for quantum physics. Although quantum physics has the benefit of empirical evidence.

@marymegrant1130 Жыл бұрын

Consider the particle/wave duality of light

@heeberman 12 күн бұрын

Megan, you are an outstanding host. Keep it coming!

@TheOrthodoxMoor Жыл бұрын

Love Megan's questions. Simple, direct, and to the point. Very well organized.

@KamranSher Жыл бұрын

Every time I see Dr. Bart’s new video, it reminds me of a new toy my father would bring me when I was little.

@andremignacco6523 Жыл бұрын

Somehow I have the same feeling

@jeffkitterman7191 Ай бұрын

68 years of Christian education and only now do I have the basic 411 in this topic. Thanks Bart.

@mmh1922 Жыл бұрын

Truly enjoyable conversation, thank you.

@JakobVirgil Жыл бұрын

The glasses are wild this time. I think I like them but they are challenging me. Keep up the good work

@MasterSpade Жыл бұрын

"Where did the Trinity come from?" = From the Imagination of a Human.

@canadiancontrarian3668 9 ай бұрын

An imagination inspired and sponsored by the adversary? I certainly think so.

@jamesmanm3623 9 ай бұрын

God wills therefore God is trinitarian. Q: why is there something rather than nothing ? A: Because it is better that something (God) exists than nothing exit at all. (this is called faith by the way. ) therefore something (God) 's existence is the best. And that something (God) itself /himself is the best, otherwise that something (God) is self contradictory. man cannot follow two different masters; therefore we need to identify who the greatest possible master (God) is. the greatest possible master (God) is the one who created everyone else, otherwise he is not the greatest. why did God create? - because he wills so. the best will is to love other. the most proper love is between equals. created things are not God's equals for God has been loving before creation. Therefore God must be more than One. if there are only two persons in the world the two persons has not choice but to love each other for companionship. therefore to freely or validity love each other there must be more than two persons. since God is the best, having two choices (three persons altogether) and having millions choices (millions of persons ) doesn't make the quality of choice any better. therefore only three persons is necessary. and therefore God is one and God is three. God wills, therefore , God is trinitarian.

@canadiancontrarian3668 9 ай бұрын

Where in what you expressed is there a text of scripture? Sounds like you hold to your own personal phantasm.@@jamesmanm3623

@MasterSpade 9 ай бұрын

@@jamesmanm3623 -- My god didn't need a weak A## "trinitarian", so = My god >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your trini god Praise be the Magic Toe Nail. I will Pray for you.

@rickreed464 7 ай бұрын

From humans that think they know more than GOD.YAHWEH SAYS NOT TO BE DECEIVED

@zapkvr Жыл бұрын

I really like the enthusiasm Bart brings to his talks. He is a wonderful communicator. What I like about him most is he doesnt appear to have an agenda. He is a truth seeker. Megan is a perfect host too. Im reading MacDairmaid's book again and the historical and personal background that Bart provides fills in some gaps and makes it a whole lot more interesting. Bart explains the Arian heresy in much greater detail than I have seen before. I also delight in the way he eviscerates Brown. Calling Brown out for the liar he is.

@donaldcarpenter5328 Жыл бұрын

Trump brings plenty of enthusiasm to his telling of LIES also!

@zapkvr Жыл бұрын

@@donaldcarpenter5328 what does that even mean? I live in Australia

@4321grp Жыл бұрын

@@donaldcarpenter5328 , If you can't bring anything useful to the conversation, please don't comment!

@ApurvNandy123 2 ай бұрын

@@zapkvr it means that Ehrman's claim that the Trinity appears only once in the Bible, that too in the NT is false. It appears also in the OT

@GabrielEddy Жыл бұрын

Simply put, this doctrine required over three centuries to become fully developed, not becoming orthodox until the Council of Constantinople in 360 CE when the ομοουσιον (same essence) position was officially ratified, and the competing ετεροουσιον (different essence) was officially anathematized.

@larrythrasher9713 Жыл бұрын

381 AD.

@toreyhorton1789 Жыл бұрын

The satanic lie took some time to develop.

@larrythrasher9713 Жыл бұрын

@@toreyhorton1789 Yes. It was plagiarized from Greek philosophers

@ob2249 Жыл бұрын

gabrieI eddy yes indeed, its an iIIustrati0n 0f h0w they made it up as they went aI0ng and created grand reIigi0us c0unciIs and grand new w0rds t0 f0rmaIise and Iegitimize their idi0cy n0 number 0f reIigi0us c0unciIs 0r ratificati0ns 0f 0rth0d0xy wiII make the st0ry m0re credibIe especiaIIy when y0u read the bibIe it has zer0 credibiIity

@tongakhan230 Жыл бұрын

Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator, who is praised forever. No surprise that the apostate church had the name Roman in it.

@AaronMcDaid 3 күн бұрын

Three recordings in one day? It's the trinity of recordings!

@MsSpiffz Жыл бұрын

I always thought it was a philosophical trick: 'we worship only one God', but 'we worship God AND Jesus' so they needed a way out. And invented the Trinity. I've often thought that the beginning of worshipping Jesus would be when the Jewish Christians split off, since that would be unacceptable to people who say the Sh'ma every day.

@SiqueScarface Жыл бұрын

To the question of different sources for the same author, and scholars debating them: I was in a church choir for some time, and beside many other pieces, we have sung Johann Sebastian Bach's St Matthew Passion and St John Passion. Johann Sebastian Bach wrote his music after the printing press was invented. And still, every time we got to the music sheets, our cantor gave us some small corrections to the music, because even the manuscripts of Johann Sebastian Bach of his own music differ, and there are debates if something is actually a speck of dirt on the manuscript or a correction, and if it's by his own hands or someone else's. Again and again, other copies of his works are found, and they carry some corrections, but not others, and there is a huge body of scholarly work tracking down the time line of Johann Sebastian Bach's own corrections to his own music.

@todddavis8355 Жыл бұрын

If we are made in the image of God, and God is three person's, where are your other two persons?

@jamesmanm3623 9 ай бұрын

@robertcarpenter7486 4 ай бұрын

@@todddavis8355 the egg theory

@Bobbychildree 4 ай бұрын

@@todddavis8355 Body, soul, spirit - omnes Gallia in tres partes divisa est.

@termsofusepolice Жыл бұрын

It's interesting to note that while evangelical Christians will immediately count as unalterably "saved" from hell any person who simply recites their Sinner's Prayer, those same evangelical Christians will condemn to hell any professing Christian who does not recognize the doctrine of the Triune God. A problematic position to say the least.

@Kevinism Жыл бұрын

Somehow, I had always compared the trinity to a user interface for a video game; the father in the divine realm is the user, the son was the modeled avatar/player character who interacts with the inhabitants of the world, the holy spirit was the in-game console that the user can use to debug the game or break the physics engine lmao Not saying that my system of comparison was better or worse than others, but that's how I made sense of it as a kid

@mojoman2001 Жыл бұрын

Could be more than a strange metaphor... if we are indeed living in a simulation. 😮

@billyhw99 Жыл бұрын

Thanks, there was a shortage of bad Trinity analogies out there.

@TheKingofdans Жыл бұрын

😂 but how are those three things equal? And how do they have the same use/power/abilities? The three you've gave are completely different with different abilities which goes agaisnt the trinity that teaches that all the persons in the godhead are EQUAL IN ABILITY. (Meaning, what one can do, the other can too)

@nonyobussiness3440 8 ай бұрын

It is true that God could make a rock so big he could not lift it, but he could lift it. Trinity doesn’t need to be logical it’s just how god reveiled himself to us

@tydy5266 8 ай бұрын

Equal in ability? It's the same being, but different functions @@TheKingofdans

@dylanjames8792 Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for this content Megan and Bart. I'm hooked!!

@jeromefanning1157 Жыл бұрын

Jesus said he that sent me is greater than I

@douglasboyd8475 8 ай бұрын

Jesus is talking about his flesh, his human nature. Colossians 1:15 says specifically Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.

@KhabibTime-cb4ym 8 ай бұрын

@@douglasboyd8475who is greater than him?

@douglasboyd8475 8 ай бұрын

Human nature of Christ speaking. As a human he hungered. He prayed. He was tempted. As God in the flesh, he calmed storms with a word. As God He walked on water. As God, He healed every disease, He raised the dead, He turned a lunch into a Buffett. He turned water into wine. He opened blinded eyes. Revelation 1:8 it says that he is the Almighty…. That means Yahweh. The God of the universe.

@KhabibTime-cb4ym 8 ай бұрын

@@douglasboyd8475 who made Jesus performing miracle??

@douglasboyd8475 8 ай бұрын

@@KhabibTime-cb4ym His Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9,10 Galatians 4:6 Philippians 1:19 1 Peter 1:10,11 2 Corinthians 3:17 All of those verses say that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus Christ. That’s why when the Holy Spirit is inside you the Bible says that Jesus is inside you. Christ IN YOU the hope of glory. Anyone that has the spirit inside them has Christ on the inside of them. It’s how you love the way that he does. It’s how you treat people the way that he does. It’s how you have compassion on people the way that he does.

@stevebeeney9022 4 ай бұрын

It took about three hundred years to come up with a religion the Emperor could accept.

@karenbehymer3634 Жыл бұрын

Dope glasses!!! Love your style!!!

@FLDavis 9 ай бұрын

John !: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

@robertcarpenter7486 4 ай бұрын

@@FLDavis there is no beginning nor end there is only the continuous moment.

@Bobbychildree 4 ай бұрын

@@FLDavis Truth hurts people like Bart and his followers.

@liberatedspirit3554 Ай бұрын

It says the word, God's spoken word obviously, as it says in Proverbs, the wisdom of his word personified as a female, was in the beginning with God No where does the word "Jesus" appear in any of those verses. Not does the "word" mean a person any more then a book means a person Nor is their a scripture u can point to where it shows anyone Jesus was doing things with God in heaven before his birth You trinitarians are adding ur doctrine to the word it is not written here When Jesus was born then God's word and his wisdom was manifested to us. "Jesus became wisdom onto us" book of Hebrews People just care more to cling to their beliefs instead of pursue truth Always has and always will be this way

@FLDavis Ай бұрын

@@liberatedspirit3554 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

@FLDavis 18 күн бұрын

@@liberatedspirit3554 WORD: Strongs #s H1697 ___ used @ Jer. 1:1 & Jer. 1:2 KJV+ דָּבָר dâbâr daw-bawr' From H1696; a word; by implication a matter (as spoken of) of thing; adverbially a cause: - act, advice, affair, answer, X any such (thing), + because of, book, business, care, case, cause, certain rate, + chronicles, commandment, X commune (-ication), + concern [-ing], + confer, counsel, + dearth, decree, deed, X disease, due, duty, effect, + eloquent, errand, [evil favoured-] ness, + glory, + harm, hurt, + iniquity, + judgment, language, + lying, manner, matter, message, [no] thing, oracle, X ought, X parts, + pertaining, + please, portion, + power, promise, provision, purpose, question, rate, reason, report, request, X (as hast) said, sake, saying, sentence, + sign, + so, some [uncleanness], somewhat to say, + song, speech, X spoken, talk, task, + that, X there done, thing (concerning), thought, + thus, tidings, what [-soever], + wherewith, which, word, work. Total KJV occurrences: 1438 KJV Jer 1:1 The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin: Jer 1:2 To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. Jer 1:1 The words H1697 of JeremiahH3414 the sonH1121 of Hilkiah,H2518 ofH4480 the priestsH3548 thatH834 were in AnathothH6068 in the landH776 of Benjamin:H1144 Jer 1:2 To whomH834 the word H1697 of the LORD H3068 cameH1961 in the daysH3117 of JosiahH2977 the sonH1121 of AmonH526 kingH4428 of Judah,H3063 in the thirteenthH7969 H6240 yearH8141 of his reign.H4427 Brenton’s Eng Sept. Jer 1:1 The word of God which came to Jeremias the son of Chelcias, of the priests, who dwelt in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin: Jer 1:2 accordingly as the word of God came to him in the days of Josias son of Amos king of Juda, in the thirteenth year of his reign. Greek OT Sept. Jer 1:1 τοG3588 T-NSN ρημαG4487 N-NSN τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM οG3739 R-NSN εγενετοG1096 V-AMI-3S επιG1909 PREP ιερεμιανG2408 N-ASM τονG3588 T-ASM τουG3588 R-GSM χελκιουN-GSM εκG1537 PREP τωνG3588 T-GPM ιερεωνG2409 N-GPM οςG3739 R-NSM κατωκειV-IAI-3S ενG1722 PREP αναθωθN-PRI ενG1722 PREP γηG1065 N-DSF βενιαμινG958 N-PRI Jer 1:2 οςG3739 R-NSM εγενηθηG1096 V-API-3S λογοςG3056 N-NSM τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM προςG4314 PREP αυτονG846 D-ASM ενG1722 PREP ταιςG3588 T-DPF ημεραιςG2250 N-DPF ιωσιαN-PRI υιουG5207 N-GSM αμωςG301 N-PRI βασιλεωςG935 N-GSM ιουδαG2448 N-PRI ετουςG2094 N-GSN τρισκαιδεκατουA-GSN ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF βασιλειαG932 N-DSF αυτουG846 D-GSM G4487 ῥῆμα rhēma hray'-mah From G4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specifically); by implication a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever: - + evil, + nothing, saying, word. Total KJV occurrences: 70 G3056 λόγος logos log'-os From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ): - account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work. Total KJV occurrences: 330

@Thoughtpologetics Жыл бұрын

I would argue Jesus didn’t equate the Holy Spirit with himself… he himself said when he goes to heaven he will send the holy spirt, there is clear separation

@kencreten7308 Жыл бұрын

I'm not a believer, but... Casper the Ghost comes to my mind.

@jeffryphillipsburns Жыл бұрын

@@kencreten7308 I used to buy Casper comic books as a child, but I don’t see the connection. Did Casper divide into sub-entities, and I’m just forgetting?

@brucecoleman1509 Жыл бұрын

I've always thought of the Holy Spirit as our conscious to do good things not bad.When we fail to do good we feel bad and then correct it. ❤

@Thoughtpologetics Жыл бұрын

@@brucecoleman1509 I love that sentiment, I only wish it was that easy… but you get into spirit of God vs Holy Spirit talk, did the Holy Spirit even exist before Jesus said he would send it, and so on… but that is not a bad thought

@brucecoleman1509 Жыл бұрын

@Thoughtpologetics It's a mystery ain't it.Peace Brother

@MrZeuqsav 4 ай бұрын

Rev, 16:13-16, theres nothing intrument to be invented to determined what is this three unclean spirits that comes out from the mouth of false prophet, this figuratively gathered the minds of the kings and the world to a spiritual battle against Jehovah, the Almighty God and his son Jesus, Trinity against two,

@sean6003 3 күн бұрын

Obviously, Trinity is undoubted was Full of Gibberish excuse to Rebel against Jehovah and Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ never spoke lie. He's God's Faithful Witness Revelation 1:5. And to prove that by verse Proverb 14:5 A faithful witness does not lie, but a false witness breathes out lies. In the conclusion fact that Christendom are Guilty to the Most High by being False Witness. If they didn't Repent to Jehovah, he would destroy all of them in Armageddon as they're marked as "unrighteous". Because Jehovah indeed eager to sanctified his Holy Name from Satan's Unreasonable Baseless Accusation.

@haze1123 Жыл бұрын

Great episode! I always love seeing Megan's different looks, but those glasses are making me dizzy! 😸

@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen Жыл бұрын

👏🙂 Very interesting. Great video.

@Knowledge_Seeker64 11 ай бұрын

This episode gave me a basic and satisfying answer for how the Orthodoxy was formed. Now I’m dying to know where Catholicism came from!

@fdshands2663 Жыл бұрын

"Her flight back to New York booked, Jennifer had seven days to pull the final script together and send it off. But they were still three scripts, at least: The Screenwriter, The Architect, and The Gate. Was it a trilogy? A triptych? A Trinity? A Trimurti? Were they each manifestations of the same thing?" - from 'Frame 39', a novel, by Rick Shands

@csmith80 Жыл бұрын

My issue is the bible doesnt say "Trinity" and it doesnt say they are equal. In Jesus dwelt the fullness of God, but the Son is certainly not equal to the Father...The bible simply doesnt support the Trinity doctrine.

@ohana8535 Жыл бұрын

"in Jesus dwelt the fullness of God". What does that even mean? It sound a bit like porn to be honest.

@jp783 Жыл бұрын

@@ohana8535hahaha your mind is in the gutter and I love it lol

@arnulfo267 Жыл бұрын

The trinity is something that developed over the centuries. Just like most other things in Christian theology.

@ohana8535 Жыл бұрын

@@jp783 😁

@jeffryphillipsburns Жыл бұрын

The Bible doesn’t spell out the Trinity doctrine, but it engenders it by contradicting itself. The Trinity doctrine is an attempt to resolve certain contradictions in the Bible. Unfortunately, the Trinity doctrine is itself contradictory. The only real way to resolve the contradictions is to renounce the basic tenets of Christian faith. Jesus is not God, never was God, and didn’t become God. He was an itinerant self-appointed preacher with certain religious ideas, certain ethical ideas certain and devoted followers. When Jesus was arrested, tortured, and killed, his followers tried to come to terms with his death, the manner of his death, and the circumstance that Jesus’s central prediction did not come true. That attempt to come to terms initiated Christianity.

@FGuilt Жыл бұрын

The Trinity is how one takes a contradiction in an inerrant book and forces that contradiction to not be a contradiction. That's why it takes so many words to make it work. The Trinity is a contradiction made doctrine. "We already assume as fact the book is inerrant." From that came so much industry.

@gestapoid Жыл бұрын

I question whether most Christians truly believe in the orthodox trinity. I dont see a way to make a cogent argument that Jesus was anything but subordinate ro God. Then there is the holy spirit which is something else altogether. When ive talked to people about the trinity casually, pretty much everyone seems to actually think more in terms of tritheism rather than the one god-three parts. Seems most likely that the trinity was invented ro be able to claim Christianity is monotheist in order to preserve a connection with Judaism for legitimacy purposes.

@jimauch94 2 ай бұрын

Why couldn't God have a son? The son would have the characteristics of the father. Difficult to tell the difference between the Holy Spirit, and Grace. seem like their function is the same.

@nmikloiche Жыл бұрын

Some childish questions I’ve always had - (1) Do all members of the Trinity know about each other. (2). Do they talk to each other? Probably not since this would be more like taking to one’s self. (3) Do they always agree? I just have always found the Trinity to be confusing.

@origenjerome8031 Жыл бұрын

The Trinity is really confusing because it is a Miracle. How could Jesus be born from a Virgin mother? Where did half of his chromosomes come from? How could Jesus rise from the dead, when reverse entropy is against the laws of Thermodynamics? How could you cram all pairs of all animals in an Ark and survive the Great Flood? How could Moses possibly part the Red Sea using just his walking stick? All miracles are confusing. You cannot accept and believe 1 miracle, and reject the other miracles.

@wotchermystic2335 Жыл бұрын

I think of it as Vishnu (Father), Krishna (“Son” who is actually the earthly avatar of the Father) , and Shakti (Spirit, which is the energetic, more feminine form of the Father). In the Bible, Jesus talks to/prays to God a lot. I don’t know how Christians reconcile that, if they eWorld accept that it would need to be reconciled.

@origenjerome8031 Жыл бұрын

@wotchermystic2335 You cannot attempt to reconcile how Jesus prays to God a lot, and yet Jesus and God are one and the same. Otherwise, you would also need to reconcile how Noah was able to cram a pair of all animals on Earth in his Ark, or why God had to put the Forbidden Tree near Adam & Eve. God could have built an impenetrable fence around it.

@lufhopespeacefully2037 Жыл бұрын

hi,do u read quran,peace

@billyhw99 Жыл бұрын

Yes, the three members of the Trinity know about each other, with perfect knowledge. They commune with one another, which is their life in eternity. They share the one divine intellect and will, therefore they always agree.

@piaraskelly1038 5 ай бұрын

Thanks for a very interesting and informative conversation

@andrewmays3988 Жыл бұрын

Bart, I love your inquiring mind and thank you for attempting to honestly answer some of the most troubling questions 'believers' and 'nonbelievers' continuously ask. Perhaps it would be helpful for your audiences if you explored and commented on the psychology of the belief phenomenon itself AND the various philosophies of the numerous, different religions being professed TODAY. I realize this will require a countless number of interviews, but I am fascinated by the forever changing eyewear and hair color choices by that brilliant and beautiful young lady challenging you with thought-provoking questions.😇

@danielmeadows5223 Жыл бұрын

Psychology and Western Religion has about 100 pages on the trinity. I came to this podcast out of an interest in the psychology of religion.

@yclept9 Жыл бұрын

It made no sense in Sunday School and it makes no sense now.

@marsonofjo344 4 ай бұрын

They rarely support their assertions with Scripture. The have pre-conceived interpretation of Scripture common to theologians. They don't consider: Who said what? Deuteronomy 18:18 18”I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.” John 12:49 49”For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and how I should speak.”

@SuperChicken666 Жыл бұрын

Those glasses are amazing! And Megan's glasses are nice too.😊❤❤

@Chandransingham Жыл бұрын

I liked this. Excellent recap. There is a two-dimensional diagram for the Trinity used in England illustrating Bishop Alexander's assertions. Good to hear Bart is in Wimbledon for dinner with bloggers.

@KathrynAnnWilliams Жыл бұрын

lol

@CBlake-xy5cm Жыл бұрын

I have a question for Dr Ehrman. A common practice among Christians is to pray asking God for very specific interventions that are personally meaningful here on Earth, such as protection for loved ones, or for certain individuals to win elections, or to obtain certain financial/material goals, etc. I'm not sure this practice is entirely biblical in origin? I'm guessing there may be other practices and beliefs among Christians that are commonly thought to be from the Bible, but arguably are not? Perhaps this would make for an interesting subject of your podcast? Thanks for considering this idea. 🙂

@joejohnson6327 Жыл бұрын

Characters from the Bible prayed for all kinds of very specific crap all the time. Duh.

@jeffryphillipsburns Жыл бұрын

It is a strange practice if you believe in an omniscient and Omni-benevolent God. That sort of God wouldn’t need you to petition him. He would already know and care and would have have already done He thought best, which would necessarily HAVE been best. Of course there was a very long tradition of attempting to appease the gods and offering sacrifices for the gods. This long tradition long predates Christianity. Christianity mindlessly continues the tradition without worrying about the inevitable contradictions.

@aaronparry2636 Жыл бұрын

@jeffryphillipsburns the most common explanation I've heard is that God knows what you want, but also wants you to ask for it as a means of maintaining a relationship. Kind of like parents with toddlers who tell them to ask for what they want, despite it sometimes being obvious to the parents (except that parents do this to teach socially expected bevahiour instead of build relationship)

@mojoman2001 Жыл бұрын

Praying makes a lot of people feel better about being out of control. When there is absolutely nothing which you can do to affect an outcome, you can still occupy yourself with wasting your breath directing wishes to imaginary friends.

@tongakhan230 Жыл бұрын

Jesus gave his disciples apriority listing on what to pray for. Please read Matthew 6:9-13. Check it out. BTW these worldly scholars cannot explain what the Bible teaches. God veils the truth from such ones. cf Matthew 11:25,26.

@dwhites3813 10 ай бұрын

So how can God sit at God's right hand? Or who was Jesus praying to in the garden? Himself?

@TheEchoeman 10 ай бұрын

The theory behind the concept of the Trinity is that God can manifest in 3 different and distinct entities, and yet they are all the same thing. It's like saying liquid water, water vapor, and solid ice are 3 different and distinct variations of the same H2O. And besides, God is supposed to be supernatural. Anything supernatural is unexplainable, so it would be futile for human beings to make any sense out of it. Because supernatural defies natural laws.

@moehoward8691 4 ай бұрын

The whole idea of a triune God is nonsense, and was never mentioned in scripture...although some will make up places where they think it is. It is not only illogical, it is just an idea of early Roman scholars , when they created their version of Christianity. People have been conditioned to believe all this silliness and don't even know it. Step away from what you have been told all your life and learn to think.

@menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 ай бұрын

@moehoward8691 - Let me ask you a very simple question, Do you understand what "progressive" Revelation is ? For example, When Jesus Revealed the "extensive" Revelation of "Adultery" in (Matthew 5:27,28), when He said that the SIN is actually committed in the "heart", and is NOT the "outward" physical act of 'Adultery" ? Because you know very well that God did NOT reveal "this part" of the Revelation to Moses on Mt. Sinai. To say that there is NO "progressive" Revelation from God, is to say that God has ALREADY REVEALED EVERYTHING ABOUT HIMSELF in the "written" Word which is not even LIVING. I can give you a LIST OF THINGS that Jesus REVEALED in the NT that was NOT REVEALED in the OT, and NONE OF THEM "contradict" the ORIGINAL "utterance", and that INCLUDES the TRI-UNE NATURE OF GOD.

@jujunorman4695 Жыл бұрын

And John Hamer (centreplace) is streaming a lecture on trinity in a few hours. Good Times.

@drarda76 Жыл бұрын

Why do they always say there are 3 "persons" but not 3 "beings" while describing trinity? God is god and person is person, like human... how do you call god, a person? I honestly still don't get it...

@КороткийГеннадий Жыл бұрын

Me too.

@eulldog Жыл бұрын

The trinity was definitely made up, and doesn't even make sense to have 3 distinct separate entities that are all somehow the same to tell a story. Jesus never even said he was 1:1 God with the Father, often stating how different they are. The 'holy spirit' was just meant to describe the underlying 'ghost in the machine' we all have. Jesus only indicated he was A SON of God, and that WE ARE ALL SONS of this 'father' source (not just Jesus). Jesus never wanted to be worshipped as a God, and christianity was duct-taped together with the existing jewish beliefs at the time. Jesus was obviously a participant in the Eleusinian Mysteries, trying to communicate that we are 'all sons of the most high, but will die like pigs', which means we are all spiritual beings but will experience physical death like lowly animals.

@majesticrainmaker1460 Жыл бұрын

A thing that no theologian uses.

@littlebitofhope1489 Жыл бұрын

The way my "Religious release" (release from school for religious education) teacher explained it was to put three separate drops of water on her hand, and then having them pool in the middle to demonstrate three separate into one. What was really happening is that my Mom felt guilty for not taking us to Church.

@randatatang9222 Жыл бұрын

It does make sense to be a mind and a body at the same time without being two different beings don't you think?

@littlebitofhope1489 Жыл бұрын

@@randatatang9222 Nope, that makes no sense at all. If you have no body, you have no mind, and without your mind, your body is just meat.

@Nite395 Жыл бұрын

You can also be a fully cat and fully elephant at the same time

@shakirmumtaz1 4 ай бұрын

Trinity came from copying Zeus, his father, etc. Its absolutely not Christianity 😢

@Nickpurty 2 ай бұрын

Really?? Are you saying this because you think God can't appear as a human?? Its even in the old testament. Even Jewish scholars have started to agree, go read Rabbi Benjamin Sommer's, "The bodies of God"

@MrRomucha 5 ай бұрын

We don't have to know the second century writings to learn that Jesus was God. All we need is to read the Scriptures, there are many of passages that say it black and white.

@robertfrench7017 Жыл бұрын

Another excellent podcast. I would be interested in a podcast on when and how the Pope became infallible.

@kidslovesatan34 Жыл бұрын

He's only considered infallible when issuing Papal Bulls.

@mojoman2001 Жыл бұрын

It has been ___[Blank]___ days since last papal error. 😂😂😂

@mojoman2001 Жыл бұрын

@@kidslovesatan34-- and yet the pope won't spare the bulls from Spanish bullfighting. 🤔

@bayreuth79 Жыл бұрын

Bart neglected to mention that modalism involves the notion that God only appears to us in 3 different modes. Augustine in his De Trinitate also believed that God is one in three modes- but he thought that those modes were ad intra. The immanent trinity is the economic trinity. The son is the image of the father and the spirit is the love of that self-reflected image. One God the father in three modalities.

@jamesmanm3623 9 ай бұрын

@rhythmvij7525 8 ай бұрын

@@jamesmanm3623 i love going into youtube comments and seeing idiots talk as if they are the best philosopher to ever walk this earth lmao

@jamesmanm3623 8 ай бұрын

@@rhythmvij7525 please , be charitable to educate someone like myself, for according to Socrates "piety is to educate one's fellow citizens"

@CD-lw6fl 3 ай бұрын

I and the father are one if you have seen me, you have seen the father. With this verse by Jesus states is that they’re thinking is an alignment. Jesus thinks exactly like his father Jehovah because he lived among him for billions of years so no one knows God as well as Jesus. It’s like when someone runs into a boy and speaks to him and says you are your father’s son you and your father or one. The son has developed characteristics so similar to the father that they are like the same person only they are separate people.

@BibleAlivePresentations Жыл бұрын

A pint with friends is preferred. Thank you for these wonderful and informative shows! Megan, thank you for assembling these with Bart and for sharing about your translating! Also: those glasses are awesome.

@jacksonhadden Жыл бұрын

Amen re: the glasses!!!

@TheSoteriologist Жыл бұрын

Starts 3:07.

@ericjackson9462 Жыл бұрын

thanks!

@tomcarslaw2117 Жыл бұрын

Great gardening tip. Always plant things in threes or another ODD grouping!

@HPLeft Жыл бұрын

Good to see a symbol from Taoism incorporated into this podcast through Megan's Yin-Yang glasses...

@CL_Easterling 9 ай бұрын

Yin-yang is 1 circle, not 2, that's more like infinity...

@susiepittman601 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for telling us the truth.

@Bullcutter Жыл бұрын

What you see here is an opinion of one skeptic Bible scholar. It actually stands in a minority amongst Bible scholars! So it's not the truth but an opinion!

@_sol.invictus__ Жыл бұрын

@@Bullcutter*skeptic

@_sol.invictus__ Жыл бұрын

@@Bullcuttermost bible scholars are christians who have to sign a statement of faith at their institutions. So I'll take a skeptic's opinion any day over that.

@alwilliams5177 Жыл бұрын

@@Bullcutteractually Dr Erhman's opinions normally represent the majority of Bible "scholars." Most people who've been to mainline seminaries like to feed their kids too much to reveal the common understanding they were taught and loose their job. Real Bible scholarship "don't preach." Preventing the loss of faith due to an understanding of the real text is a real problem for conservatives.

@Bullcutter Жыл бұрын

If that were so, no publisher worth their salt will publish them! But we have numerous Bible scholars with their work published by top universities! Dr. Ehrmans studied under the late Professor Bruce Metzger, a world-renowned Bible scholar of Greek New Testament. He wouldn't agree with Dr. Ehrman's theology! Nor will Dr Don Carson, another eminent Bible scholar. Dr. Ehrman stands alone in refutation of major tenants of Christianity!

@wittwittwer1043 Жыл бұрын

The trinity came from the minds of religiots. These are kinda like the guys who write shows designed to use laugh tracks. The trinity was probably invented to attract polytheistic folk into the pack; fewer gods, but what the hey, less to keep track of and appease.

@KaiHenningsen Жыл бұрын

Hmm, as for scribal text changes, I remember some pointed remarks about a German translation of an English sf story - I think an A. E. van Voigt one - where, for whatever reason, the translator added an excessively brutal extra scene that doesn't really fit with the rest of the text. I think I have that book somewhere, but I probably cannot find it with reasonable effort. Even figuring that out must have an interesting story behind it.

@jennifferjude3156 Жыл бұрын

You are so cool ! I love all of your eye glasses and all the colors you implement, you are a joy! Professor I love your host and I love this program and I’m so grateful.

@tedreilly3352 Ай бұрын

Perhaps one should go back and reread the ancient Indo-European pantheon in which there is a clear triad; Pater (Zeus, Jupiter, Perkūnas etc), Filius or Frater (e.g., Poseidon, Apollo) & Spiritus (Hagia Sofia, Athena, Māra etc) … the threefold function appears also in the Irish depiction of the feminine (maiden, wife & crone) … I suppose much the same mapping could be done with Indic, Iranian & Slavic cosmologies.

@hereigoagain5050 Жыл бұрын

Early Christians knew a good deal: three Gods for the worship of one.

@jamesmanm3623 9 ай бұрын

@frankmoodley9391 Жыл бұрын

This obviously came from the trinity in Hinduism Brahma (creator) ,Vishnu (preserver) ) Shiva the destroyer. Us

@BrianSchafer-p1y 2 ай бұрын

Just because 2 different cultures have similar ideas, does not necessarily mean they are related, nor does it mean they are unrelated. Evidence must be provided to make such an assertion plausible.

@banditbaker1675 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for an interesting and thought-provoking discourse on the Trinity. When dealing with the Trinity a close friend would comment that "he had no problem with the Trinity, he just didn't understand it" I am a little disappointed that Bart omits mentioning the influence that Neo-Platonic philosophy had on early Christian theologians (indeed the influence that it had on all of the Abrahamic religions. I would go as far as to suggest that until you study the work of Plotinus you will never come close to understanding the concept of the Trinity.

@carolynsilvers9999 4 ай бұрын

I was raised in this, always had doubts. I can't make myself believe in the trinity.

@jimjuri6490 4 ай бұрын

Ask any JW. Many of them too were brought up to believe the Trinity. Why did they change? John 8:32 has the answer.

@menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 ай бұрын

@carolynsilvers9999 - Of course you can't "make yourself believe in the Trinity", God must REVEAL IT TO YOU BY HIS SPIRIT, JUST LIKE HE REVEALS "Salvation" & EVERYTHING ELSE that pertains to God.

@menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 ай бұрын

@@jimjuri6490 Another "Cherry Picked" scripture while you OMIT verse 31 which is the KEY and says, ..."If you CONTINUE IN MY WORD..", something you OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT DONE, which is why you DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH, (v.32), to come up with so many LIES that are not even in the WORD, like Jesus is the Arc Ange Michael !! Wake Up !!

@jimjuri6490 4 ай бұрын

@@menmustchangebeforekingdoms : If Jesus is not an angel why is he compared to angels? Can God be compared to angels?

@menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 ай бұрын

@@jimjuri6490 Jesus is NOT an Angel, you know it, your JW 'deceivers" know it, I know it, & God knows it, because it is NO WHERE TO BE FOUND IN THE WORD.

@joetrapp9187 Жыл бұрын

"The Father, Son,....and that other guy." That's kind of how it was presented to us.

@dazzadizzy5308 Жыл бұрын

and the uncle?

@realDonaldTrump420 Жыл бұрын

And every Christian I've ever met actually worships the unholy trinity Satan Lucifer and the unholy spirit. Just like their Bible says they would. Intelligence is under rated by the religious. The Bible is very clear about these matters. No one has read religious texts for themselves in centuries it seems.

@charlesmendeley9823 Жыл бұрын

The pigeon.

@jamesmanm3623 9 ай бұрын

@Zozo-d7p Жыл бұрын

Besides this being the coolest KZbin channel, it's also the home of the coolest eyeglass frames.

@zephyr-117sdropzone8 Жыл бұрын

I personally don't see how the Trinity could be true. When the Son is mentioned in the NT, it is always in a subservient way to the Father. It's why I believe something like Mark 13:32, that no one knows the day or hour, not even the Son but only the Father, absolutely goes back to Jesus because it causes way too many problems for later christology and trinitarianism, which it did. As a Christian, I still think a version of the trinity is correct along with a spice of Arianism. That Father>Son>Holy Spirit, but not them all equal to each other.

@legron121 Жыл бұрын

It seems like a misapplication of the criterion of embarrassment to argue that the saying in Mark goes back to Jesus because it caused problems for later Christology. What matters is whether it caused problems for *Mark’s* Christology, and (in light of verses like Mark 1:11, 10:18, and 14:35) I see no reason to think it would have. But I agree that the Son is always subordinate to the Father in the NT (and nowhere is this more clearly expressed than in John’s Gospel, the latest one: e.g. “I can do nothing of myself, but only what the Father has taught me”).

@zephyr-117sdropzone8 Жыл бұрын

@legron1290 Of course it doesn't cause problems for Mark. Because Mark doesn't believe what the 4th century fathers believed.

@jeffryphillipsburns Жыл бұрын

But whether they’re equal to each other or not, that’s still three Gods, not one, and as a “Christian” (presumably you mean “as an observant Christian”), you’re supposed to be a monotheist. There’s really no way out of this other than either to admit to polytheism or to renounce the notion that Jesus is or was divine, which is to renounce one of the two (take your pick) basic tenets of Christianity. You can still be a Christian culturally-in fact, you can’t help but be one-, and you can still revere Jesus..

@zephyr-117sdropzone8 Жыл бұрын

@@jeffryphillipsburns Not at all. Jesus would be equal with the Father now. Not beforehand. My original comment refers to before the Crucifixion. He wasn't always equal with the Father.

@jeffryphillipsburns Жыл бұрын

@@zephyr-117sdropzone8 Read my lips: It doesn’t matter whether they are equal or not, that’s still three Gods.It doesn’t matter at any point whether they are or were equal or not before or after or during the Crucification or at any other point.

@salehahmed1154 Жыл бұрын

O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.(Quran 4:171)

@darrinkimball5097 3 ай бұрын

Nice glasses. Not distracting at all.

@SY-gd6yc 4 ай бұрын

The "The Lord is One" has always been the foundation of all major religions.

@Bobbychildree 4 ай бұрын

@@SY-gd6yc Do you include Hinduism in that statement? I think the Shema was a direct challenge to the polytheism that became rampant after the Great Flood. There have been many great but false religions based on polytheism.

@menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 ай бұрын

@SY-gd6yc - The LORD is ONE, even Jesus reveals this in Mark 12:29 when he quotes Moses in Deuteronomy 6:4. "You" are also ONE Human being, but you are made up of 3 parts, Spirit, Soul, & Body. And without any of those 3 parts, you do NOT "exist" as ONE human being...Get It ??

@salehahmed1154 Жыл бұрын

They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah is the third of three.” And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.(Quran 5:73)

@jamesmanm3623 9 ай бұрын

@edward1412 7 ай бұрын

Your Allah is not even the true God so no one cares!

@joygibbons5482 6 ай бұрын

Well, it’s fortunate that Trinitarian Christians don’t say that then isn’t it?

@samkb6374 4 ай бұрын

@@joygibbons5482 Trinitarians say that the father( Almighty God) is one of the persons of the trinity. There is no denial when it comes to this claim and doctrine.

@ElCid420 4 ай бұрын

There is Christian trinitarians and Hindu trinitarians, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Any historical connection?

@stevenjackson6360 Жыл бұрын

The trinity is a political doctrine, not a theological doctrine. It describes the relationship between the emperor, the church that upholds his power and the kings to which the kingdoms within the empire have been delegated. This is the structure of the Roman empire. They are equally powerful when they work together. The church is the holy spirit and represents the ordinary people who support the kings and emperor as long as they work towards the same goal. The kings are the Christs, appointed by the church and sanctioned by the emperor to lead the people in the secular realm. They are venerated when they die and back in the day would even be deified. The emperor is god on earth, the king of kings. He is supported by the church and the people as long as he rules well. The church fathers were pragmatic empire builders proposing social models that would maintain social cohesion within a multicultural empire. The power of each of these positions in society was the same, they policed each other and maintained balance between the various parts of society. Fundamentalist Christians have ruined the chances of most people understanding what the Bible actually means. It was always preached in Latin because the stories were warnings to the elite.

@juannifer32 Жыл бұрын

It's kind of sad the Holy Spirit was always and still always an after thought thrown in to complete the trinity. But all the focus is on Jesus It's like the Supremes and Jesus is Diana Ross.

@oliverbrownlow5615 Жыл бұрын

Omg! For the first time, I understand the concept of the trinity!

@wickedcabinboy Жыл бұрын

OMG, those glasses. I like Megan, but those are a little distracting.

@canecorsodoxa4060 4 ай бұрын

The Bible presents God as Father Son Spirit. What is the relationship between the 3 or how we ought to understand that formula in regards to divinity itself in its uniqueness in distinction of the 3 terms that’s where the doctrine is developed by interpretation, harmonizing and seeking scriptural consensus from different text. If you don’t believe in revelation or the authority of scripture then you will never see the Trinity in the Bible but if you believe God has given revelation about Himself through the Bible you will find the doctrine of the Trinity illuminating the entirety of the Canon both Old and New Testament.

@jimjuri6490 4 ай бұрын

Here is what Jesus and his disciples believe and whom together worship. (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father, Remember: 'OUR FATHER who is in heaven. Let YOUR NAME be sanctified' - Matthew 6:9. ONLY the FATHER is God. Others are free to worship whatever they so desire.

@menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 ай бұрын

@@jimjuri6490- Since you are "Cherry Picking" quotes from Paul, let's see if you believe EVERYTHING Paul says. "For through Him, (JESUS), we both have access by one SPIRIT unto the FATHER". (Ephesians 2:18). Just one of many verses which REVEALS the ONENESS of God by the TRINITY. Because WITHOUT any of the 3 that MAKE GOD ONE, you CANNOT have ACCESS to the FATHER !! Get It ?? Of course not....

@jimjuri6490 4 ай бұрын

@@menmustchangebeforekingdoms : What is cherry picking? Does that mean that those who try to make Jesus into God use the whole Bible? I cannot get an audience with the President unless I go though his Secretary. Does this mean the Secretary is the President? John 14:6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME. Same meaning at: (Ephesians 2:18) because THROUGHT him we, both peoples, have free access to the Father by one spirit. Why would anyone want to go to the Father THROUGH Jesus? If Jesus was God, why not deal with Jesus directly? WHY? The answer is in what I quoted earlier. 1 Corinthians 8:6. ONLY the FATHER is God to True Christians. Others can believe whatever they fancy.

@menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 ай бұрын

@@jimjuri6490 You are absolutely "deluded" as you can get !! You asked, "Why would anyone want to go to the Father THROUGH Jesus?" Answer: BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE !! You also asked, "If Jesus 'was' God, why not deal with Jesus directly?". Answer: BECAUSE JESUS, GOD THE SON, IS GOD, THE 2ND PERSON OF THE GODHEAD, AND WITHOUT HIM, GOD THE FATHER & GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT DO NOT EXIST !!

@jimjuri6490 4 ай бұрын

@@menmustchangebeforekingdoms : Personal theories against Bible teachings. I'd stay with the Bible.

@captainbc52 Жыл бұрын

So much history condensed in the series.... I love it! My favorite part is when I hear tidbits about when stuff was added or taken away from the Bible...like that verse in 1st John. I wish Bart would do a short series like.... Super condensed... On important passages in the Bible that were added or deleted on purpose to make a theological point.... And the time period it is historically believed to be added. The one that blew my mind was a lot of the original books of Luke didn't have the first portion that included jesus's infancy narrative... That and the story of the adulterous woman in John, that was added much later.

@ianwassink7664 Жыл бұрын

That would be a good talk.

@oscarbenigsen4538 Жыл бұрын

I don't think anything was taken away in the case of Luke's gospel regarding Jesus's infancy. Luke states his purpose at the beginning of his text, which was to gather and then order eyewitness accounts of Christ. He wrote the narrative to Theophilus, this, to assure him that what he had learned of Christ was true. _"Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, _*_just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also,_*_ having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed."_ The point here is that Luke's motive was not to account for everything that occurred in Christ's life, but only what he himself could corroborate from eyewitnesses. Matthew's gospel is widely considered to have come at least a decade prior to Luke's. And yet it includes the narrative of The Holy Family's journey to Egypt, which is missing in Luke's gospel. So why would anyone use Luke's account to suggest that the Egypt journey never occurred? Luke seemed focused upon eyewitness accounts. So it could be that he did not record the Egyptian journey because he could not find anyone who was yet alive and who had witnessed such a remote and undoubtedly private experience. As for 1 John 5:7-8, the verses were not inserted into "The Bible." They were inserted only in _The Textus Receptus,_ which was compiled by Erasmus, and later used by translations such as the KJV. But it was Erasmus himself who told us that the verses should be held in suspicion. We have known about them from their beginning. However, the fact that they were added does not mean that the doctrine of The Trinity is unbiblical or was made up out of whole cloth. As Erhman says here, the rest of the Bible declares that God is One, that Jesus is God, that The Holy Spirit is God, and that The Father is God. And in Matthew 3:16-17 the Bible shows all three of these Persons being present and active simultaneously: _"As soon as Jesus (Person #2) was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God (Person #3) descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven (Person #1) said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'”_ There was only one solution to this, and Modalism was not it. Christians had accepted that The Father, the Son, and the Spirit were each God even before Nicea. But they had no formal doctrine to harmonize the belief. The ecumenical meetings merely formalized what the church generally believed. That is why there was no contest between the various points of view in these meetings. Trinitarianism had always existed between the texts. They simply formalized it, chiefly because heretics were trying to introduce doctrines that were contrary to the texts.

@ttown55 Жыл бұрын

MEGAN, I just noticed your glasses. I kept looking at them and was thinking something looks different. Finally, I realized the design. They are absolutely the coolest looking glasses I’ve ever seen! What a beautiful design. I’m a male, but would like to see what designs are offered to males. Who designed them or what company sells this designers glasses? Very cool looking.

@johnnastrom9400 7 ай бұрын

Could you guys please stop simping for her? We come here to listen to Bart, not the attention seeking woman.

@gytmarv123 Жыл бұрын

So glad to be oneness! There is no trinity! God is one!

@jamesmanm3623 9 ай бұрын

@gytmarv123 9 ай бұрын

@jamesmanm3623 human philosophy, not scripture. Zechariah 14 9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. That's describing the millenial reign. That's God revealed in Jesus Christ as the one true God. One God. One name!

@ji8044 Жыл бұрын

It came from the attempts by the second and third generations of the followers of Jesus to explain why nothing had gone as expected. The birth of the Trinity and the Christian concept of the messiah (as opposed to the Jewish concept) both arise out of this crisis which created Christianity as a separate religion.

@saifullahbutt205 Жыл бұрын

yeah, also the idea of original sins and the messiah dying for your sins makes perfect sense in the context of explaining '' okay soooo the messiah died...shit...well that wasn't supposed to happen''. I think that the idea of original sin and the topic of sin and atonement were excuses to why the messiah died.

@ji8044 Жыл бұрын

@@saifullahbutt205 The first hundred years of history after the death of Jesus are fascinating

@oceancoast92657 Жыл бұрын

Excellent.. I love listening to Bart.. One of the most insightful scholars Another way to reconcile the Godhead without resorting to the "Trinity" dogma.. is a concept of "Divine Investiture".. where the Father bestowed or vested the Son with his authority to act in his name. Much like a business owner bestows upon a CEO, but on a divine level. This is a little like Bart mentions that some say God made Jesus God.. but this investiture occurs before creation of the world. See Job 38:7 and John 1 And in the end, the Son will hand over the kingdom (Like CEO handing over the business) subject himself to the Father 1 Cor 15: 20-28. A similar investiture is being done with the Holy Spirit, that the Father sends.. Within the context of investiture, the will of the Son becomes the will of the Father, simply by the entrusted delegation of authority from the father. So when Jesus speaks , it carries the same weight and authority as the Father, during the his vested stewardship. Another think that helps reconcile the Godhead.. is not to demand strict Monotheism. The ancient Jewish cosmological world view was one of Henotheism.. Worship of one God (YHWH , god of Israel) , while not denying the existence of others. Deut 32:8-9.. God divided human kind according to the number of the sons of God. Israel was YHWH own portion. This is the world view that needs to be understood with detero-Isaiah verses that are typically used to project the "One God" monotheism .. but in reality, it was to affirm that for a captive Israel, there is only ONE God for Israel , and the god of Babylon (Marduk) was real but inferior. Once you come to this epiphany and realize that the demand for a ONE of the Universe wasn't a Jewish concept, but a Neo-Platonist idea that was becoming popular in the 3rd-4th centuries.. the scriptures actually demanding a 'Trinity' dogma.. The whole Trinity dogma was simply a product of the times, the Hellenization of Christianity.

@fiily1 Жыл бұрын

John 10:30-38 Separate individuals, but in effect the same being. 30 "I and the Father are one.” 31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[a]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came-and Scripture cannot be set aside- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

@ji8044 Жыл бұрын

That is similar to how the followers of Jesus understood him, born completely human but anointed/elevated by God the Father either at John's Baptism on in his resurrection.

@oceancoast92657 Жыл бұрын

@@fiily1 Nothing in Jesus citing of Ps 82 demands that they are one being.

@oceancoast92657 Жыл бұрын

@@Sportliveonline good for them.. I don't follow JW's ..but if they recognize that the trinity doctrine isn't actually expressed in the Bible.. good for them.

@oceancoast92657 Жыл бұрын

@@ji8044 I think that's kind of what Bart was saying, and probably very true for how his disciples understood him during his life and ministry.. However, it's equally plausible that he was elevated by investiture, before the world was. See Job 38 and John 1 Col 1:15-20

@RoyBatham Жыл бұрын

Megan. Who designed those awful specs ?

@tarp-grommet Жыл бұрын

Philosophy is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat. Metaphysics is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. Religion is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there and shouting "I found it". Science is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat using a flashlight.