The TRUTH About Solar! 4 Year Review

[@infl]

Hey, solar installer in the DC area here. You talked about some benefits of micro inverters, but did not talk about what is in my opinion the most beneficial feature. They allow each panel to operate independently. Say you have a tree on the corner of the house, and half the array is shaded in the morning. When you have a long line of panels connected in series, the efficiency of the entire string is wrecked when half the panels are supplying a lower voltage. In terms of voltage, half the panels will be above the maximum power point while the other half will be below, and none of them will be efficient. With micro inverters, every panel is always at its maximum power point. If you want to spend slightly less money, an optimizer for each panel can also do this. Also, the ability to monitor each panel is very nice. We are notified immediately if any system we have ever installed has problems, and we already know exactly where the problem is.

[@sparkfire1223]

Is the downside having higher expenses when they fail due to difficulty of replacement? Would you not just run optimizers?

[@infl]

@@sparkfire1223 They aren’t too expensive to replace. When we go on maintenance calls we are usually going to be lifting up panels anyway. And with the long warranties companies are putting on their systems it won’t end up costing the customer anything. The largest downside is definitely the cost of installation. However, when you factor in the extra cost of a string inverter as well as the optimizers, it really only makes a difference on very large systems.

[@sparkfire1223]

@@infl great info thanks!

[@xeridea]

He missed this point of microinverters. It needs pointed out though, the benefits of micro inverters can be had with string inverters with power optimizers. Separate MPPT and monitoring. It was slightly cheaper than microinverters, but I checked recently and microinverters have dropped in price, so now either method would be good.

[@VladFredK]

He doesn't know what he is talkin about

[@CharliePryor]

Net metering map at 1:30 is inaccurate. Michigan resident here with solar. Can confirm we absolutely sell power back to DTE at $0.08 per watt. As a reference, MI energy costs average about $0.12 per watt here.

[@Carlos_TX]

I agree as we can net meter here in Texas

[@RedstoneSolar]

Agreed

[@gregorysmith9158]

Selling back electricity at wholesale ($0.08/kW) while buying at retail ($0.12) is by definition not net metering. Net metering is when you sell and buy at the same price, commonly retail. Which is why MI (and for the poster below in TX) are not on the map. the operative word here is "net". You aren't netting out with you electric provider because of the price difference.

[@MrMatt1923]

Have net metering in Illinois also. I have panels and net meter myself.

[@popsbents3542]

I would add that you should also determine the life expectancy left in your roofs life. If you have to re-roof in a few years after the solar install you will have to pay an installer to remove your solar array then re-roof and then have your solar reinstalled. If your roof is not fairly new I would recommend addressing it before you do a solar install to save a chunk of change.

[@mrwoodrow]

Just did the drill! The panel installers did roofing as well. Ya they knew "a guy" but I did not dought them when they recommended a roof replacement-Before the solar panels! :)

[@TrevorBennet]

A roofing co. told me that most roofing shingle manufacturers do not warranty their product if solar panels are installed over them. It might be worth while to explore warranty & insurance impact before installing.

[@MajorCaliber]

In the HVHZ (High-Velocity Hurricane-Zones) of Florida, where we favor heavy, *thick concrete roof tiles,* this is a MAJOR consideration.

[@toddshoenfelt6465]

You'll probably have coordinate re-tiling and re-paneling. If you need to replace your tiles, you'll first have to schedule the solar company to come remove the panels (I doubt they do that for free). And conversely, if you want to replace the panels since they degrade with time, you may want to replace the tiles since you'll have access to them.

[@teecee4459]

In that case, I would just purchase a Goodyear blimp and suspend your array from cables. Just make sure to tether your blimp properly so that it doesn't drift further than your main power line running from the blimp to your home. Otherwise, it could cause the main line to break which would cause outages and possibly fires.

[@reedwelch]

I totally agree, plan for the future and add capacity. 2 years ago we added 10% to a new installation with 1 power wall. Now have 2 EV’s, and need 50% additional capacity and a second power wall.

[@kbob8424]

- check with your utility provider. Where i live not many know but they offer an off peak program just for EV charging. You need a separate meter but the rate id's under .02/kw. I sell solar and there's no way solar can currently beat that price.

[@DSC800]

Today is the 6th anniversary of our 4.5kw array here in N. San Diego. It has provided 100% of home usage including ~30 days of AC per year and ~8k miles of Chevy Volt range. Peak San Diego rates just passed 60c/kw recently and so called "super off peak" rates are almost ~30c/kw. Combined with the EV we achieved break even at year 5 give or take a couple months, covering the $10.5k initial cost but the real savings are accelerating into the future.

[@518outdoors6]

Thanks for your video. I have 180 days of sunshine and 100 inches of snow per year. My analysis in Upstate NY is more like 15-20 yrs which means I’ll wait until I move to a better climate.

[@MikeRobot]

To all homeowners before you buy. I recommend you exhaust all other methods of reducing your electric cost first. 1. Insulation everywhere. 2. Did i mention insulation everywhere. Cost is low and benefit is huge. 3. High efficiency hvac system. 4. High efficiency water heater. These alone will get your bill more than half reduced and cost less than solar.

[@manuelelrey26]

Hi I am a solar energy rep and they panels you have are called Q cells, back them about 5 years those were the new things. Now we use different type. I just want to say thank you for making this change. You are a smart guy. There is two things I cannot control when I come to a home. One is credit failed, maybe the clients credit score isn’t at its best now but one day that will change. The other that I cannot control is ignorance. “oh i thought it was free” That kills me because i’m just trying to help.

[@gasdive]

I've had solar for about 5 years. I agree with all of this. I got micro inverters and they're great. Also, no high amperage wires on the roof, which is a safety plus.

[@probablynotabigtoe9407]

Lol what? The wires still carry the same amperage, they just run at 240v AC instead of DC🤭

[@gasdive]

@@probablynotabigtoe9407 no, they carry 20A at 240V AC instead of 80A at 60V DC. If there's a break in the wire AC quenches the spark because it turns off 100 times a second. DC doesn't quench the arc.

[@miked886]

New York was incorrectly marked gray for net energy metering, when New York does in fact have net energy metering. I am a solar sales person and can tell you we most definitely have net energy metering in affect

[@alancadorette3447]

when i look at my solar panels, all I see is dollar signs, money going into my pockets. And in truth who looks up at roof tops that much

[@henryliu5566]

True. I only see it when I go up to clean or fly my drone around

[@myaccount__7269]

All I see is more e-waste clogging up landfills in the future

[@CRPerformance1]

@@myaccount__7269 or coal savings from not needing to burning coal.

[@TravelingStacker]

So your panels and inverters are paid off? You have a $0 bill and receive money back every month?

[@rajarampatel601]

@@myaccount__7269 o common, they works even after 50 years but yea with 50% reduced capacity

[@danielmadar9938]

Thank you. We've been planning for 13 years to put solar panels on our roof, but it was not possible due to regulatory issues. At last, a year ago the regulations have changed, and 3 days ago we turned on our new 21kW system. Since we live in Israel, our 1st sunny February day produced 73kWh. The system is expected to produce ~28MWh in the 1st year, about 3-4 times higher than our electricity usage. We get ~0.14$ USD per kWh we produce, from the electricity company.

[@dirtnapz996]

14 cents isn’t bad, I’ve seen worse.

[@isaacbussey3216]

How in the world did you get panels installed for 14k? They are charging upwards of 65k here

[@cusman]

I live in TX where we get plenty of sun year round, including in winter and with my heating by natural gas, main use of electric is cooling during the hotter months and my Tesla vehicle charging. I sized for 100% of my expected usage and with all the work / school from home throughout 2020, it has been over producing to where I am accumulating credits with my electric utility and they send me a check every now and then. As a result it is also paying for itself faster than originally calculated. The Powerwalls are different story. They don't really pay for themselves, but they were very useful during the week long power issues in Texas a couple months back during the arctic blast that pretty much shut down TX power infrastructure, but my home stayed powered. So these are more of a luxury spend, but I was glad to have them during that situation.

[@sheldon522]

Sounds like you over bought your system. And wasted money.

[@cusman]

@@sheldon522 I am very happy with the economic decision behind my solar system. In simple terms, I pre-paid my electric bill for 5 years, and that will make the next 20+ years beyond with same system have free electricity. In other words, the ROI on the investment is 5 years, and after that I'll be making ~$200 per month of savings at current electricity prices. The Powerwalls don't have similar economic benefit. They have a 10-year warranty instead of 25-year like the solar system, and in my scenario they don't help make / save money since TX grid doesn't have time of use based energy prices. This is why I call the Powerwalls a luxury spend with main benefit to have full home power backup during grid outage which TX does have reliability problem with.

[@sheldon522]

@@cusman I am glad you like your system. I think if your are getting checks you over built. Unless you are planning for additional users like EVs. I am looking at adding one also, live in Texas with gas heat.

[@cusman]

@@sheldon522 Same as you. I live in Texas with Natural Gas for Central Heat, Cooking Stove, Clothes Dryer, and Tankless Water Heater. If I ever want to reduce use of Natural Gas, I'll be looking at option like Dandelion Energy to add Geothermal Heat but that company isn't operating in Texas yet. Your Solar Installer will try to size you at 70-80% of your current yearly use, but I recommend you do your own math and understand that credits you earn during Fall, Winter & Spring will pay for under production during the peak Summer heat months. It may sound counter-intuitive, but in Texas with Net Metering whatever size system you get, it will meet your home needs more during the cooler months earning credits which then get used during Summer. If your consumption pattern changes (like driving less of an electric car) than so much credits will accumulate that they will send you checks every few months. I should add that whether they send you checks or just let credits accumulate depends on your retail energy plan provider. I am currently on a 2-year Solar Plan with Reliant Energy. This has been very favorable for me because they have been paying me close to 14 cents per kWh that I send to grid more than I take from grid. They put an end to this plan so I will be looking for an alternative / next best option when it ends. Good luck

[@dipperq]

which is good. I don't see this investment making any returns in 30 years in NYC

[@markmuir7338]

Similar story for me: I got 12 panels installed in 2013, which more than covered my annual energy usage - until I got a Tesla in 2016. Had to install another 12 panels to cover that! They are a different design, and although all 24 panels use microinverters, the installers had to run a separate circuit for the new panels. It's nice having an energy bill of zero for 7 years straight. But it will take another 2 to 3 years to pay off completely, given the $3000 electricity panel upgrade and permit that was needed for the 2nd solar system.

[@charlesharper2357]

Did you price what it would cost to get off peak grid power just for the Tesla?

[@markmuir7338]

@@charlesharper2357 Off-peak electricity is quite dirty in Southern California (mostly natural gas and imports), which is what I was charging my Tesla on exclusively for the first 4 years. Now I've modified my Tesla wall charger to allow me to charge from my excess solar production during the day, thus making my Tesla clean and saving a tiny bit of money by avoiding the grid.

[@charlesharper2357]

@@markmuir7338 Thanks...I was just wondering cost wise. I applaud you for making the choice based on how dirty the power is.

[@markmuir7338]

@@charlesharper2357 There's a special EV plan where you can charge at night for 9c per kWh, but you don't get net metering. With net metering, its 31c per kWh at night, 34-44c per kWh on-peak - and excess solar generation is credited 28c per kWh. At least these high prices make solar pay back a lot quicker. California's grid has an incredible amount of solar on it - over 65% of generation comes from solar around mid-day, which is why there's now a super-off-peak from 10am-2pm.

[@charlesharper2357]

@@markmuir7338 Wow that is expensive...easy to see that that it makes sense to go solar. Up here we Albertans whine about 18c per kWh...

[@edwardgreenjr167]

I'm loving these retrospective takes on solar. I wanted to get it done to my home years ago, but it just wasn't viable at the time. Even then, I wanted to oversize my system, and had installers try to dissuade me from it. In retrospect, it was probably more to get me into a system I could afford so they could make the sale. Despite anyone's take on EV cars, I do not think its unreasonable to see the average buyer converting in the next 25 years. That alone would make me think of oversizing the system, not just the potential to pay them off with energy buyback, but having to keep two cars recharged on a routine basis. All better to have it and not need it daily, then need that overhead and be without IMHO.

[@Ciiren]

Did you get solar panels?

[@richardcoughlin8931]

As someone who installed a 12 Kw solar panel system 2 1/2 years ago I strongly endorse Ben’s advice to put the largest system you can manage on your roof now. My system is adequate for my present needs but recently I’ve replaced an old HVAC with a heat pump, which means I will be heating and cooling with electricity from now on. I’m located in Southern California so this is not inherently a problem, but it will involve additional electric consumption over the course of the year. In addition, I currently have a plug-in hybrid with a 17 kW battery that I will likely replace with a full EV in the next few years. This will come with a battery three or four times as big. As a result I am currently in talks with my solar contractor to add another 3 kW to my existing system. Had I thought far enough ahead (or had the benefit of Ben’s advice) I would’ve installed this extra capacity at the outset. Apart from this initial miscalculation I am totally satisfied with my solar panel system. I’m on track to have the system pay for itself in less than six years.

[@BenSullinsOfficial]

Great to hear!

[@shanedavison7473]

In New York, I got a solar estimate of $71,500 plus tax for solar. I can't afford it so I will just have to live off of the usual electric grid. I can't afford an electric car either...or the additional panels for it. They wouldn't fit on the house anyway of course because it's not big enough for more. This whole green energy stuff is obviously only for people who have lots of money.

[@richardcoughlin8931]

@@shanedavison7473Your estimate seems way too high. How big was the proposed system? I have a large system (40 panels generating 12 kW), which cost me $34,000 in 2018 with a tax credit $10,000. It is on track to pay for itself in 5 to 6 years. My neighbors just installed a similar system for the same price. There are several online tools that will help you to get competitive estimates in your area. The price of electric cars will be coming down in the next 2 to 4 years as more manufacturers expand production. I would urge you not to get discouraged by the current situation.

[@leslielucci3182]

Depends on state regulations. In New York (Long Island) you’re not allowed to install a system producing more than 110% of your previous 12 months usage. Assuming degradation of 1% per year, in 20 years you’ll have production of 90%, - averaging 100% projection over 20 years compared to previous 12 months usage at install date.

[@leslielucci3182]

@@richardcoughlin8931 sounds like a rip off unless you have a huge system (60+panels) with full battery back up. Seven years ago we installed 28 275watt panels for $24k with micro inverters. Federal and state rebates at the time paid for about half the cost. It should be much cheaper now, approximately like 50%.

[@jalexand007]

Living in AZ I did the Tesla subscription program and it is wonderful. There was only one months payment due at signing up. All other cost Tesla takes on.

[@rudyvandewalle1400]

Fully agreed with your conclusions. I had SunPower pannels (4.8kWh) installed back in 2008 - living in Italy - and they were pretty expensive then. I have state subsidy landing on my account every quarter so this made the investment truly worth it. But since, as you said, we switched a lot of appliances to electric and we own now 2 EVs. So I decided to go and enhance my pannels by almost doubling the power (+4kWh). I did consider the SunPower microinverter ones but eventually stepped away from that solution and I will have a new inverter installed where I do have space. I preferred the Panasonic pannels because they tend to have a better efficiency at lower light levels which I was looking for in winter times. SunPower are great with very high efficiency now but apparently operate best at full power of sunlight. So yes, invest in more especially now that those pannels cost 3 to 4 times less than when I bought my initial ones over 12 years ago. I will also change my wallbox from the Tesla to one which is connected to my WiFi and manage the flow from pannels to the EVs or from my PowerWall 2 to the EVs. The Tesla Wallbox is just a dummy one and I wish I would have made a better choice 2 years ago when I got my Model 3.

[@omeracikel3524]

Thank you for the great video Ben. I wanted to add another benefit of microinverters: when system ages the first thing gives up statistically is your single inverter and that means 0 production until you replace the inverter. With microinverters, when an inverter fails, only a fraction of one panel's production is effected (in my case a single diode failure - 3 of them per panel - means 1/3 of one panel's output is out). Your system will still produce most the energy. Well worth the money difference. The single inverters bound to fail 5 to 7 years.

[@texastriguy]

Correction/clarification Ben: Here in Texas we don't have MANDATORY net metering, but the majority of customers are serviced by providers that support it.

[@pinkiepinkster8395]

Except that the Texas electric grid was privatized and even if they support solar they will still only do what makes the most profit like coal and oil. They didn't keep the grid repaired so you had so many outages in winter but the elite that manage it don't care about the consumer.

[@pinkiepinkster8395]

Except that the Texas electric grid was privatized and even if they support solar they will still only do what makes the most profit like coal and oil. They didn't keep the grid repaired so you had so many outages in winter but the elite that manage it don't care about the consumer.

[@sinkinpat]

I installed my 6.5 Kw system 11 years ago. With degradation I am producing half of what it did. With self install I installed 36 panels. It cost me 6.5K after rebates out of pocket. 10 years ago I with net metering I was paying $100 per year. It has slowly risen $130 per year due to degradation. I am about ready to replace all my panels. I agree with install as many panels as can fit. Not because your demands go up. The do. But because the degradation is higher than they advertise and is exponential not linear.

[@Mapdotnowhere]

Degradation is that bad after only 11 years and you’re already replacing them? How could you possibly benefit from that much cost? Are panels more efficient now?

[@leslielucci3182]

Do you live in a place that’s very windy or sandy? Or does the wind blow directly on your panels? My 6 year old system so far has experienced almost no degradation. Projected degradation is 1-2% per year. Panels face south& wind blows mainly from west.

[@Lock24hi]

Great video! I just got a 9.35 kwh install here in Nova Scotia Canada. It sounds like our laws are the same as California because we have net metering and it makes it a no brainer. Mine have micro inverters and we maxed out the roof space so I have no regrets. Thanks Ben!

[@charlesharper2357]

I'm in Alberta and thinking about it...how have you made out in winter?

[@Lock24hi]

@@charlesharper2357 hey, I haven't had them through the winter as it's only been a month.

[@charlesharper2357]

@@Lock24hi Thanks anyways...

[@kennordsfan1494]

@@charlesharper2357 From Alberta here too, the price of solar panels and install isnt worth it here. 22,000 on my house with 2 grand in rebates. With the continued utility fees that you still have to pay with the Reid I could rate they pay for your power 2.3 cents per kilowatt but they charge 11.4 kilowatt hour that’s a 8.9 difference? They return on investment is 24 years with the panels having a 20 year life span with about 40 percent degradation over that time period. In regards to the winter months as my friend has his garage on solar only with battery storage ability works but he says that you get about half output in the winter. But you will need to make sure the panels have no snow on them so the occasional cleaning is needed.

[@Lock24hi]

@@kennordsfan1494 yeah in NS the rebate is 6k and the power is more like 16 cents/kwh, plus the added sun, the payback is about 10 years.

[@williamwinner4234]

just to be clear, not all solar panel placement is the same so filling your roof may not be financially beneficial. I filled my southern roof with panels (28). this was estimated to provide 56% of any energy needs. the installer wanted to fill my steep northern-facing roof with another 35 panels. This was going to be an additional $75k. But it was only going to add 20% additional electrical production due to the steepness of the panels and the fact that they face north. so, just because you have roof space doesn't mean it's all equal.

[@cesarebeccaria7641]

I was watching solar panel videos while on the treadmill. When I heard 31 cents a kwh, I almost fell off. Had to stop and back up the video. Holy cow! We're all getting price increases here in Texas on contract renewals. My effective--bottom line after electricity, delivery, taxes and fees--is going to 10-12 cents depending on usage. Wow, I feel for you in CA. No wonder Californians who move here to Texas always look so happy. They sell a house for a million dollars and then buy a bigger one here for half that, and then their electric bill is one third? I've looked at solar four times over as many years, and the numbers haven't worked for me. At 31 cents a kwh for grid power, I'd have solar and wind both up next week...and be selling electricity to my neighbors the week after!

[@leslielucci3182]

NY also charges sky high utility rates. Interesting that a few towns that have their own power plant, rates are much less and their grid is more reliable.

[@ftworthtexan9082]

I am currently looking into solar here in North Texas and the costs for solar plans are around 20 cents a kwh. Im paying 9.6 cents per kwh now. using energysage I see that I can get some amazing systems and the costs ofnthe solar system makes my cost equal 5 cents per kwh over the next 25 years.

[@Etharel]

@@ftworthtexan9082 I just signed up for the cheaptest electric plan in Ft. Worth and it'sd like 16 cents now...sigh. If you don't mind, share what you learn in the process. I almost contacted energysage.

[@ftworthtexan9082]

@@Etharel I signed a 2 year contract about a year and a half ago with green mountain energy. 9.6 cents a kwh. Amazing plan. I'm meeting an installer tomorrow. A system that will produce 21000 kw a year and guaranteed to produce 85% of that 25 years from now. I'll have to switch to a net metering plan.... which costs 20 cents per kwh if I use more kw than I produce. Still a bargain.

[@tankercrewchief]

Hawaii is at .40 cents 😫

[@Isaac-un4cn]

I don't have my own house yet, but I got my parents started on a path towards solar by helping them get started on energy sage. Good chance they will get solar finally! Thanks for the video/inspiration/referral.

[@0e32]

Hi! We are installing a 32 panel system here in Sweden right now. The energy prices are raising for every year so I think it is a good investment in the long run. Thanks for your advises. We have in fact already by accident done all your advises right. 1.Bigger system than recomended by the seller for future use. 2. Converters under every panel. 3. 1-2 brand new panels in spare if someone get broken so I easy just can replace and add a new one similar to all the others.

[@tacobell2582]

why keep the spare? doesn't make sense. make the spares produce electricity

[@0e32]

@@tacobell2582 Yapp you right about that!! I allready installed the sparepanels at the garage roof and so far we sell more power than we buy from the electric grid owner!!

[@MsAjax409]

Another consideration is whether or not to install a solar system that continues to generate power when the grid is down. By law (UL1741) a grid connected solar system must cease feeding power to the grid during a utility power outage. Most inverters are designed to shutdown if 240V is not present on the grid.

[@RussellFineArt]

Cool vid, thanks Ben! I also installed a 5kW PV system on my roof in 2017 but I bought my panels and equipment from a wholesale solar distributor and installed the system myself as I've installed windows and lights before and figured I could do it, and I did. My ROI was just over: 2-years and TOTALLY worth it!! Anyone without solar these days, kinda' makes me wonder what they're waiting for or what they don't understand.

[@jackwebb437]

I really don’t want to discuss politics (either side) but I think that the new executive administration and Congress will be more favorable in continuing incentives to buy solar, and also forcing states’ PSCs to net meter. And I think this is a good thing for our infrastructure and long term outlook.

[@russmauch6106]

Hi Ben. Your commentary was very helpful. I am on the front end of this process and I can see right now the possibility of making major mistakes. I will take all of your recommendations, enhance my reading and research, and let you know what I come up with just so you’ll know how helpful you’ve been thanks so much. Russ/Dallas, Texas

[@agrameroldoctane_66]

Or as in Poland, they change the law and than you pay 20% storing fee instead of forecasted 5%, and eventually you are being categorised as "producer" so local utility (all state-owned) have no obligation to purchase your energy and aditionally you have to pay all cost connented with your "product" , VAT, income taxes. Currently investment return is calculated @ 20 years.

[@RichardJOberle]

Micro inverters are also great for places where snow may cover your panels. You get production on uncovered panels. The down side is some of my micro inverters went bad after the warranty period.

[@BendeVette]

Ben is using Power optimizers which do the same thing. I also wonder why he is saying the micro-inverters give you panel level monitoring as the Power optimizers are doing this too. Another thing is whether or not you are using 3 phases. I do not know if micro-inverters support that. Probably when you use three strings? I have a 3 phase Solar Edge 17.5KW with optimizers and it's working great. You can over dimension the system by 135% and the inverter makes sure you don't overload the return power. The inverter can hang outside, so it doesn't have to occupy space in his garage. It is more of a wrong decision to hang it in the garage than it is a wrong purchase.

[@bfingulmer]

In Colorado where I'm at we weren't allowed to go above 120% of our annual usage. Which hurt us also because we just bought the house and lived in it for 6 months and didn't have a full data set to evaluate our needs upon. If ones looking into getting solar. Ask the questions of your installers and utility company. Also, no matter what make sure you get a critter guard to protect them installed. We didn't and Tesla never even mentioned it. Then came the pigeons.

[@michaelnagel2205]

I appreciate the homeowner look back commentary and the number breakdown.

[@jcoffman9518]

Here in Washington the state pays a per kWh bonus in the first 6 years along with net metering. The issue is that a system over 12kW is considered commercial which pays a lot less than the residential rates. So our system is 11.9 kW. So. Worth. It.

[@GregHassler]

I'm hopefully a week away from being to operate my 17kW / 50 panel system. Looking forward to it.

[@shlongbongchewy]

After your solar panels have paid for themselves make sure to save a portion of the spare cash for any maintenance or replacement that will be required in the future. While there my be warranties on your panels/inverters this does not mean that the labor will be covered in the event that a panel or some cabling needs replaced (FYI Cabling does not have a warranty). Even though your installer has a labour warranty it is still smart to set a little money aside just in case. Naturally if you are DIY or have a subscription plan that covers these costs then this does not apply as much. Source: I am Advanced Technical support for a large Inverter Manufacturer.

[@jordanwilliams4958]

Great breakdown! Also commenting for the KZbin algorithm Gods!

[@rustusandroid]

With Enphase micro inverters, you still have to have a control box that will have to mount somewhere. It is about the same size as that SolarEdge...

[@deltoncbaker]

My solar company would only install enough panels to cover my historical usage. Their excuse was that anymore panels could effect the approval process. I was lucky that my historical data included an energy hog “hot tub” and by building an DIY solar hot water heater, my grid tie system now always shows a surplus.

[@jetpipe28]

I love when people with $50,000 in solar installation try to do the math on their “savings.” News flash. They aren’t worth it, and never will be over time because of cost of roof repairs and new solar hardware. But it is pretty cool making your own energy. But laughable when people try to justify them. Ooohhhh California.

[@benrichards9541]

Exactly

[@stevebrannon69]

Ben, nice set up. We installed our 3500 watt system in December, 2012. I installed it myself, saved about a dollar a watt. We have Enphase microinverters. System has completely paid for itself. Our rates in central California have doubled in that time, about 6% a year. This system cost about $8,000 after the federal tax credit. We now save about $1,200 per year, a rate of return of about 15% which is tax free. For us it was a no-brainer.

[@BenSullinsOfficial]

great story!

[@kennethhawley1063]

The Watt is a unit of power not energy. Do you mean kWh?

[@alexandervanwyk7669]

I just installed a similar 3850W system, Canadian Solar. Cost $7000. So price seemed to have dropped slightly.

[@alexandervanwyk7669]

@@kennethhawley1063 Just multiply the W(attage) with hours of sun and you get your kWh.

[@pazi402]

@@kennethhawley1063 He is probably referring to the total panel system size

[@edlauren9434]

It’s good that you’ve mentioned microinverters. It does cost extra, but it does help the system to be more efficient.

[@InkwellFoto]

My roof line is below street level so you could see 90% of my roof when at the top of the driveway. Another reason I'm seriously interested in teslas offering. Looks are going to matter even more to me

[@petergoestohollywood382]

You don’t think those standards blue/black panels look awesome? I think they look so much better than regular shingles. If you want to kick it up a notch you could go for some polycrystalline panels with sick patterns.

[@cgamiga]

PG&E and some utilities charge you minimum charges per month if you over-generate, like $10, which eats into your NEM.. and more panels costs more.. so, you don't want to go TOO overboard in oversizing your system. (Some utilities are trying to shrink NEM repayments, too...) You always want to know your annual KWH usage for last couple years, so installer can properly size your system. But, in thinking ahead for future uses, bear in mind: An efficient EV like Tesla will use about 3MWH per 10k miles (eg per year)... 250-300WHr/mile x 10k miles = 250-300MWhr, plus 10-15% level2 240V charging overhead... so 2.9-3.3MWHr. Some of that will be replaced by supercharging or work, so.. round to 3MWH/10k miles, and scale to your annual mileage. Double bonus for EVs and solar: not only does solar make your home charging free, an EV also saves you vs gasoline fuel costs, so!!

[@sergiomedina235]

Sounds like a sales pitch more than an honest review 🤔

[@cesarebeccaria7641]

Maybe, Sergio. To me it sounded like a warning: "Don't move to California!" 31 cents a kwh for electricity? No wonder Elon Musk is moving to Texas. He can't afford to charge his Tesla battery in CA.

[@hurricanefreak101]

@@cesarebeccaria7641 Texas has a free market where utilities can hike your rate at any time

[@bobbywillingham3577]

Ian you want to ruin life. How about you you using money and a bad person to up yourself

[@anthonydyer3939]

One preparation I did years before my solar install was to install roof vent tiles, but I was mindful enough to have them installed on the north side of the roof. So if I was to do things differently, I’d move all the existing roof penetrations (ducts, flues etc...) to the north side, meaning I could fit more panels onto the south side.

[@vanshjain8169]

Superb video, deserves a lot more views, thankyou sir 🙏 Love from India ❤️🙏

[@machelvet9594]

Great Video. Same experience here 8 years after installation. One thing I would ad (5:45) if you want to go with the idea to cover all your future energy use in your house. Base your calculations on the worst month in your area (probably January) and make sure you have enough energy during that month to cover your needs, that way you will always be energy independent. Don't base your calculations on average or annual output.

[@airplanenut6242]

Ben: “We pay $.31/kWh” Me: Say what?! I’m pretty sure I’m paying $.13/kWh flat rate up here in OR. Those prices are pretty rough and would definitely change my own solar math.

[@jrb_sland5066]

While further north, in BC, Canada, I'm paying $CAN 0.10/kWh ~= $US 0.083/kWh. Much as I'd enjoy some benefits from a solar roof, it would take ~ 20 years to pay off the initial investment. Not worth it, and my winters are long with little direct sunshine. EDITED to add : OLD DATA - see below for more commentary. I currently pay ~ $US 0.1040 for each additional kWh.

[@DJRaffa1000]

i also was shocked by the price i heard .. then i did the currency conversion here in germany the average electricity cost works out to $0.36+ /kWh. But we pay a crapton of taxes and fees on electricity .. of those 0.3€/kWh only around 8-12 cent (euro cent) are the actual cost of electricity, the rest is tax etc. so solar should be a no-brainer here, but sadly most of the houses i see still dont have any for whatever reason.

[@lejac4916]

In Germany you'll have dramatically less solar irradiation than in say California, raising your price & roof area per kW of output. And output is less consistent year round. Additionally you only get a few cents per kWh sold to the grid (around 7 for new setups, dropping every year) and would therefore want a good battery for self use (= cost). It isn't as much of a no-brainer as one might think. Though with PV & storage costs dropping continuously I'm sure we'll get there. One place where it's basically a no-brainer already is Australia - high grid electricity rates with often spurious grid reliability, high solar irradiation, lower installation costs.

[@jetrow67]

@@jrb_sland5066 is that the net cost tho? but by the time I add all the taxes, distribution charge, transmission charges, etc. I get 0.195 per kw (the rate is 0.08 kw/h here in alberta) . Solar is still worth it here but you still looking at 10-15 years to break even. esp if you need to take a loan out to get it.

[@jrb_sland5066]

@@jetrow67 ...Good point! I dug out my April 2021 utility bill & copied the relevant details below. My original comment is hugely out-of-date. All in $CAN, of course! Basic fee {flat-rate monthly fee} 19.02 Consumption 206 kWh @ 0.1335 27.50 Total before GST & discount 46.52 5 % GST on above 2.33 Grand total 48.85 10% discount for prompt payment 4.89 Net electricity cost for April 43.96 Thus my 206 kWh cost me 43.96, for an effective rate of 43.96/206 = 0.2134/kWh Ignoring the flat rate monthly fee: incremental net rate + GST - discount = 0.1335 * 0.95 = $CAN 0.1268 / kWh convert to $US {at Friday's rate of $CAN = $US 0.83} $US 0.1040 / kWh My Okanagan town operates its own retail electrical service, buying bulk power from FortisBC at about $CAN 0.06 / kWh {$60 / MWh} and selling it at about double that rate as you see above. The "profits" {after all operating expenses are paid} get merged into the town's "general revenue". With the revised arithmetic, I can confidently now assert that I pay about one-third of what Mr. Sullins pays at retail in his city, which I believe to be San Diego, CA. The money numbers are rubbery - much depends on the impact of flat fees added on top of the rate per kWh. Many jurisdictions also charge time-of-day fees, which confuses matters even more. Hope this clarifies ;-)

[@iampennochio]

Thats interesting. Here in ozstralia so many people put solar panels up and feed back energy into the grid, the loses uncured by the power companies were so great they wanted to start charging people who were feeding back into the grid instead of paying them because you were using their infrastructure and not paying anything.

[@CrownRider]

Thanks Ben. I see you have a SolarEdge inverter. We extended the SolarEdge inverter with power optimizers in each panel. This means I can track the performance of each individual panel. If I would have anticipated 7 years ago that we installed a heat pump, as we did last year, then I would have installed more panels indeed.

[@probablynotabigtoe9407]

You can add more panels if you have space

[@pdavis2207]

Yep, you could easily add optimizers to your current system and get similar advantages of microinverters. Also, with your power wall you would still need some type of main inverter in addition to the microinverters.

[@rickhernandez9672]

The information is very helpful, the problem is finding a Company that is not into screwing people left and right. Contractors are taking advantage of people, leaving them with a regular electric bill and a solar bill.

[@ascotell]

So glad I got my installed during covid. Our utility limited us to 106 percent of current usage

[@richardprice5978]

why ? i don't see a safety risk or another reason why and households can and do change size and usage in 5 years or so span

[@ascotell]

@@richardprice5978 that is what our utility imposed. Our covid utilization was 30 to 40 percent higher then normal so we locked in greater production then we normally would have had

[@richardprice5978]

@@ascotell 🐠 stink 😉 must work to good for solar 😉 so there 🧢 you off as id need a better reason from my local zoning board in slc😉 to buy that storyline 😉 what a about a power outage?? thats never going to work 😉 kinda sucks to be you as now you have some hard choices gas ⛽️ or minimal power 😉 is the same thing with wind or water generated power?

[@danielroden9424]

i had some insanely high quotes from 65k for a 13.5 kw system to 100k for a 20kw system. i found an installer with 7000+ installs that is doing a 13.5 kw system for 42k. so 31k after tax credit. my electric rate is over 32 cents a kwh once all the fees are factored in. its only going to get more expensive now that fuels are so insanely high priced.

[@MrShowwoff]

Any diminished ability on your solar panels? Do you use AC a lot?

[@CameronSevyn]

Couple things: 1) utility company doesn’t allow you to overbuild your usage any more than 20% so you can’t “max out the roof” 2) appliances are only getting more And more efficient every time you replace or buy anything new. You don’t need to overbuild because efficiencies now and 25 years later makes up for that 3) battery tech improvements also makes overbuilding your system not a good idea

[@blacklotus2983]

Net metering isn't as helpful when your power company charges a separate transmission fee that doesn't get credited. Even when you have net metering in your area a battery can still be useful (also saves you from having to buy a backup generator and allows the panels to run while the power is out).

[@blacklotus2983]

@see ya Not really, diesel and gas both go bad and the generators themselves need maintenance and testing. There's a lot of standby generators that don't work when people need them because they don't take care of them. Batteries are much less worrisome and provide value to offset over night electricity usage when solar isn't producing. A generator is only providing value during blackouts at night. Also during a blackout during the day your solar is completely wasted as it will not provide power to your house. You will have power for quite a long time after your gas or diesel runs out with solar/battery. If you were absolutely going to go the generator route a propane generator would be best, propane doesn't go bad.

[@blacklotus2983]

@see ya I live in Amish country in PA, a lot of them have solar as well. Really depends on the church they go to as to what hey are allowed to have/use. Most normal people would not use a backup gen regularly and wouldn't do any maintenance. Even regularly used generators require oil changes, spark plug replacements, etc. Any mechanical devices is more prone to failure due to wear than an electric device. You are literally using controlled explosions for power in an engine =P

[@blacklotus2983]

@see ya You don't store batteries, that's the point. They can be used continuously where as gas starts going bad in a few months and diesel in a couple years (depending on how well sealed and out of the light it is). With a stationary storage solution energy density is far less of an issue so it's a bit moot beyond price. The proposition with battery storage is, again, it's a value add verses standby power sources. Batteries save me money during every night where as a generator that's not used costs me money in spoiled fuel.

[@blacklotus2983]

@see ya Your average person can't even keep the cars they use every day maintained. Ease of doing so doesn't really factor into it. Batteries charge themselves from solar, it's called a charge controller. If someone is charging their whole home battery manually they are doing it wrong! A whole home battery would be used regularly, that's the point, they supply power at night and have BMS to balance degradation over time. As to powering your home for a week or a day or a year, sure, it's called battery + solar, power my home indefinitely that way right now. I feel like you've never seen a whole house battery system?

[@blacklotus2983]

@see ya Lithium batteries are sealed? Even if they weren't, the batteries for my house are in my garage which is ventilated. I think you may be stuck back in the 1970's as far as solar panel knowledge goes. I have a normal all electric house running off solar + battery right now.

[@RobotWrangler]

$0.31 a Kwh? Wow!! Average US is $0.14!! No wonder it makes sense.

[@jjmontiel1982]

What’s the wattage for each module you own? Modules being installed in solar farms are around 410W in rated max power. Panels are getting more efficient and cheaper as well than 4 years ago. Hopefully the trend continues to improve.

[@markeh1971]

I had a system to play with for a year (only small) and on the garage roof using second hand panels and it did ok, 275w each with 6 panels. I just replaced the panels with new ones and they are 495w +3% each. It is a lot better now.

[@alexandervanwyk7669]

@@markeh1971 Hi Juan Just installed Canadian Solar's 480W panels. I get max 81% efficiency on each of them in South Africa.

[@davidarmstrong2710]

Thanks for all the information. Looking at getting them but didn't want to rely solely on what the guys that come to my door are telling me.

[@cogitozoo]

When I had my solar panels installed in late 2016, I had to ask/beg SCE for more. I was allowed 4 more. The idea of filling my south facing roof with as much solar panels as I wanted was out of the question. SCE would never have approved. It was all based on my energy usage at the time.

[@PeterLawton]

Because they know better than you do how you should live your life??? Grrr. Pet peeve of mine. I'll shut up now.

[@garyinny5076]

The net metering chart at 1:30 is outdated. I am in NY and have had net metering since my panels were installed in February 2018. Best to check with your state's public service commission (or equivalent) or your utility. Based upon Ben's recommendation, I used Energy Sage for solar research and to find my installer, and highly recommend them. Go solar!

[@BajaPete]

Take the cost of the solar install and invest it in another rental house or TQQQ (Triple ETF). You will be much wealthier than the solar panel owners.

[@MrSteelehead]

Great information Ben. People “really need this”, and they should study it “before the salesmen show up”. This is the class “they left out in school”. I studied low voltage electronics for two years, and it has helped me. But most folks “DO NOT HAVE A CLUE”, what they are being sold, “and never will”. Cheers.

[@dongidongi]

The map of net metering is inaccurate. It's available in Illinois.

[@Voyajer.]

Kentucky as well has it.

[@thechad6218]

Utah does it as well

[@stunningsalman]

I have got 10KWH solar setup here in Pakistan. First I installed 325W X 8 polycrystaline panels and 3KWH off-grid inverter. Now purchased 540W X 14 mono perc panels. Along with 10KWH Solis on grid inverter. The setup is complete. I wish I have more money for that customized structure which can make your rooftop useable. Now going with traditional frames. setup. Just waiting for license from NEPRA, after which my bidirectional meter will be installed, and my setup will be completed.

[@bimblinghill]

Interesting that despite the everything being different for me (climate, regulations, energy cost, panel cost at time of install), my panels also paid off in about 6 years. 9.5 years in now and they're just generating profit with no problems.

[@surebrah]

He didn't include the cost of 2 Powerwalls in the math.

[@tacobell2582]

@@surebrah not everyone needs them

[@Ciiren]

would you recommend solar though?

[@bimblinghill]

@@Ciiren 100%

[@Ciiren]

@@bimblinghill have you already recommended solar though?

[@markshelley1927]

Question: If when micro inverters start failing is the labour covered under warranty? Would it be not easier to fix an inverter on the ground?

[@chrisb508]

Informative video. I also had panels installed about four years ago and feel that they were totally worth it. I agree with your assessment that if I could do it over again, I would have had them install as many panels as they could since that would not have upped the cost too much and looking back, that extra generation would not have been wasted along with the fact that we will be charging electric cars in the near future.

[@lkstaack74]

I agree that you should design your solar around expected energy needs, but you also left out some important truths. In accordance with the conventional wisdom 7 years ago, my system was designed to deliver the average energy usage from the previous 3 years. With the addition of a Tesla and electric spa, my needs are much greater now. My original installer wants to charge way to much to add panels, and no other installer wants to touch it. You didn't mention some other important truths: the location and orientation of your panels are very important; so important that it might not make sense for you to get solar. Also, there are unscrupulous companies out there that will sell you solar, even if your house isn't a good candidate for it. My ground mount system faces almost due south, which is great because that's the orientation of the sun in our hemisphere. One of my neighbors is surrounded by trees and got solar oriented north and east. His panels get about 2 hours of indirect light a day. He was too busy to research and got taken in by a predatory solar company.

[@11green11]

You make some great points and for someone like myself still researching they are great info ! Thanks for taking the time to post 😎👍

[@Ciiren]

did you end up getting solar panels?

[@gabriellerandazzo5169]

I have consumed a lot of videos on KZbin, and this video has offered me a ton of great content. I have new things to consider that I hadn't before. Thanks!

[@IrishRosesDad]

If that initial $$ had been invested in say the S&P 500 in 2017, its value would have close to doubled. My point is, the payoff number is not a constant number, but a moving target. The actual breakeven date is much further off in the future than you estimate.

[@DoradoClaudia]

Sure bud and if he had invested in bitcoin he would be millonaire by now or he could had lost it all aswell but it doesn't matter because it didnt happen lol.

[@90kevin20]

Not everyone has a desire to become uber fucking rich dude. 😒 Some people want to enjoy life and just retire with what we need.

[@Jorgetrader]

If my grandma had wheels, she would of been a bike.

[@garygag4701]

You don't understand energy independence... Investing in S&P isn't going to eliminate your electric bill. You will trapped into the infinity program of rising electric costs that your Electric company offers you...Bad choice...

[@GetchaName]

Are you factoring in the increased cost of removing the panels to replace the roof when it needs replacinh?

[@kbob8424]

- your area may vary but I checked, double checked then re checked with our home insurance. They are supposed to cover the removal, storage and re installation in case of roof repairs needed. We had just gotten a new roof about a year before installing. Keep in mind the panels do extend the life of the roofing below them since they get no direct sun exposure.

[@jonmarshall3414]

I have a very similar setup with two strings totaling 17 panels with DC optimizers using a solar edge 5kWh inverter. If the prices wasn’t around 10-20% more for microinverters I would have done those. A single point a failure kind of sucks and I do get some clipping since I have 5.6kWh of solar but only a 5kWh inverter. Still produces 30-40kWh on a good sunny day here in Iowa

[@pf4773]

A very good point added here by one of the commenters...make sure to put on your solar roof AFTER you replace an aging roof due to the costs of removing the panels and wiring.

[@noisycarlos]

Nice! I guess if you don't want to add now but might later (because it's too expensive right now or whatever reason) and you have a pitched roof. You could install them on one side of the roof and in ten years use the other side. That way if you can't find the same panels, at least each side of the house looks uniform :-)

[@andrasbiro3007]

It might hurt the efficiency. You want the panels to get as much direct sunlight as possible, so it matters a lot which way they face.

[@noisycarlos]

@@andrasbiro3007 true that. I guess whether it makes sense or not depends on several factors, like which way the slopes are facing, geography, etc 🤷‍♂️

[@cgamiga]

@@andrasbiro3007 Good point, though, some folks have panels on "morning"(east) side of roof pitch, then others (main) on "afternoon" west side of roof, get more during all times of day. They definitely need to be on separate strings (if not separate inverter) or else micro-inverters, as they will get different amounts of sun/shading during times of day

[@MD-gt6xw]

I agree on the micro-converters and avoiding mismatched panels. I would add another lesson I learned is redundancy. For us that was the inverter. Our primary home had a 13kw system installed in 2016 (48 panels) on a flat roof (santa-fe style with parapets). At the time we had just had a major 1 in 100 year hail storm that destroyed all the roofs in our neighborhood. So we had just had a new roof put on (glad to have home owners insurance) for our 4k sq foot home + 1k sq foot garage. So roof space was not an issue. I decided to go with a 2014 panel lower wattage panel that was rated to withstand 1 inch hail just to avoid another freak hail storm taking out our solar system. But then we had a bad lighting storm hit the area in 2018 and knock out the inverter. Took Solar City/Tesla about 3 weeks to come out and repair/replace $1 fuse and restart the inverter. That was in August when we use to get $600/mo electric bills (AZ in 110+ temp days) so even though the inverter and panels have the 25 year warranty we still had to pay a huge electric bill due to no electricity conversion for 3 weeks. If I was doing this all over again, I would go with micro-converters and if that wasn't an option then would ensure I had multiple inverters for the system for redundancy. We also installed 130% of what we needed at that time and then improved efficiency with a new SEER 17 AC on one side of the house that gave us enough excess to power a Tesla M3 purchased in 2018. So also agree about adding more panels than minimum needed for today. The savings and the full tank on the EV are hard to beat. The independence and freedom from utility companies (and their annual price hikes) and fossil fuels can't be overstated.

[@cgamiga]

True, my inverter died and couldn't replace for 2mos in summer , lost $100s in generation... Sungevity wrmy bankrupt so I didn't have any monitoring, and difficult to get replaced (finally got free warranty, did it myself)

[@USSBB62]

Dear Sir; PG&E sells to me at RETAIL ! But, Buys it back from me at WHOLESALE. Sometimes as low as $0.06 cents per KW. If your in California as you said. There are some large discrepancies in your financing and information about long and short term costs. Please explain !

[@Eric-xt3os]

The net metering component is absolutely critical, and it makes me wish there was even a federal standard that would guarantee that into the future. If there was some utility effort to undo that, it would kill the financial benefit for the little guys for doing this (or force you into batteries to store). Seeing this $5/gas, we're going to see a hard acceleration away from gas and its unstable pricing and fast forward to solar, wind and all else, all things we little guys can and should be doing. So significant to take power away, literally and figuratively away from heavily influential energy conglomerates. I'm here as part of a condo HOA considering doing solar. I'm so excited at the prospects, both financially and environmentally because no doubt does it lessen our carbon footprint behind record temps, more frequent and severe storms, droughts, fires, floods. Let's go!

[@bonghollywood1653]

Ben, you should read out or discuss AB 1139 (Gonzales) as this is reverting back NEM to solar owners in California.

[@jimadams2113]

Yes, this is very concerning.

[@Former_Texan]

I get the electric car senario, but do you really think our energy needs will be increasing over the next 25 years? There has been a concerted effort to make everything more efficient, and I don't see this changing. Or, in my case, my teen will be moving out in a couple of years, followed fairly quickly by the rest of the children. I'm worried about over buying. I am in an area of Texas covered by our deregulated retail market, and none of the current offerings will pay me for excess production. But I am able to get net metering. My power rate will go from 8.9c to 13.9c as I switch to a provider that does net metering, so it is very important to offset as close to 100% of my power as possible.

[@designpaulf]

Hi Ben, great vid as always! Something additional I thought as there must be an ancillary benefit from the shading the panels create.

[@Dan-pf9rv]

Yes they protect the roof from the sun exposure and elongate it life where they are placed. They also provide an umbrella effect which cools the house in summer so that u don’t use as much AC :).

[@j-cole88]

I'm starting a job with a solar provider and this video has been incredibly informative. This is information I'll use moving forward. Thank you.

[@victorseal9047]

Thank you Ben, for an informative and interesting overview of the subject.

[@booga1988]

Ben, I'm also in San Diego but thinking about moving to colorado springs to purchase my first home. I have a model 3 SR+ and was wondering if there's anything specific I should look out for when house hunting in terms of if the house can support charging. Specifically, if I plan to upgrade to level 2 charging at home. Thanks.

[@BenSullinsOfficial]

should be fine if it's built in the last century

[@booga1988]

@@BenSullinsOfficial maybe you could make a video on what to look out for to see if your home’s infrastructure can support it such as location, panel location, or whatever else I don’t understand

[@bernardob1005]

You should do a video on how difficult it is to add more solar (maybe even a home battery) to an existing (older) system

[@kbob8424]

- depends on system. I have an enphase micro inverter system. You can add up to 16 panels per run. I currently have 10 panels. These systems are connected in series so I can add 6 more panels to mine. All you have to do is plug them in line to the existing array.

[@stevesedio1656]

If AB1139 passed and signed in CA, the return on investment for solar will disappear. Utilities are pushing to eliminate net metering, on all solar installations. Assembly Bill 1139, has already passed committee. Net metering (turning the meter backwards) will be replaced by time of use. The utility pays very little for your solar contribution, and charges much more during peak, 4PM to 9PM, when solar isn't available. Batteries can offset most of this, except for winter. To make it worse, net metering is currently calculated on an annual basis. Extra energy collected during spring and fall (no air-conditioning) offsets energy used in the winter when short days and cloud cover reduced collection. This will change to monthly, the utility paying wholesale for excess energy. The solar array size would have to triple to zero out winter months, battery size increase by a factor of 20. Neither are cost effective.

[@dvfreelancer]

I'd like to see the costs including the power walls and energy manager.

[@yiweizhang2485]

If you get many more panels than you need, with net metering, wouldn't you end up producing more than you need and essentially give it free to the energy company? The investment may not be worth it?

[@maxzzzie]

Very clear and good breakdown.

[@IntermountainGoldRefiners]

I have been thinking about getting extra solar power if I get a setup, but I am looking for something profitable to do with the extra energy because Utah does not pay very well for energy sent to the grid. Anyone have an idea what to do with the extra energy?

[@designpaulf]

EV charger maybe? Definitely drive an EV! Although I don't know if you considered charging an EV in your sizing calculations. That could potentially double the size of your solar array. Some EV offerings may be able to function as a home backup electrical supply. There's currently more development of that strategy in Japan (Nissan) and Europe. Good luck!

[@IntermountainGoldRefiners]

@@designpaulf I wonder how much a person would pay to change up.

[@MK-fk4kp]

@@IntermountainGoldRefiners install a meter and charge them by rates! beware of taxes though!!!

[@markeh1971]

I went to a Solar Edge talk and hot water is the best cost saving for storage, followed by batteries.

[@IntermountainGoldRefiners]

@@MK-fk4kp what kind of tax, sales tax?

[@mfhberg]

Thanks Ben, I'm with a municipal utility in NC, so despite most of NC being net metering, we don't get that privilege.

[@williamkreth]

I got a quote to get solar installed on my house, and my jaw dropped at the cost! I am going to use a company that helps me get the needed plans etc. to get the permit and do the install myself! I calculate I will save nearly 50% on the install if I do it myself (don't worry, I have experience, and will do it legally with permits and inspections)

[@charlierosene1117]

Have you installed your system? Care to let us know how it went?

[@dustinwilliams8273]

What I learned - it sucks to do construction in California

[@kolle128]

In California I guess there is AC, but where I live most of our energy usage is for heating... in winter. With no net metering. The winter output of the system is around 1/6th of the summer. It is fundamentally not possible to cover most of my energy usage with solar.

[@countertony]

Great review. I'm midway through getting panels installed on my house in England - it's through a bulk purchase that our local government invited people to join, so while there's economies of scale there's also less choice about panel type. I'm definitely looking forward to swapping our electricity supply to one of the companies that offer hour-by-hour agile rates so we can make the best use of the arbitrage opportunities. My expected payback period is rather longer at around 15 years (I'm at 52.4 degrees latitude compared to your 32.7ish (though that's slightly offset by having a much steeper-pitched roof), and I don't have aircon or an electric car to soak up those juicy kWh, so the non-panel costs start to dominate.

[@ThePupil]

Not sure if you already made a choice, but look for an inverter with a low start-up voltage. This way the inverter will kick when there is less light. With a inverter with a high start up voltage you will miss out on days when the shun hardly shines of is blocked by thin clouds.

[@countertony]

@@ThePupil The scheme was fairly "you get what you're given" and included the inverter, but that's something to bear in mind if I go down the battery storage route later, since that will presumably require replacing the inverter anyway.

[@hyweljthomas]

Here in the UK, getting a home battery makes financial sense - even without solar. They take advantage of the difference between high and low power rates and, in my case, have a payback of 4 years. With added solar you then either power your battery or sell excess back to the grid.