The Truth About Tesla Model 3 Batteries: Part 2

This is part 2 of our Series on the Truth About Tesla Model 3 Batteries. Today we’re going to discuss how Tesla takes these 2170 cells, and create their world class battery pack modules.
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Jack Rickard Battery Teardown: • Tesla Model 3 Battery ...

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Thinking Tesla, use our Link! geni.us/GoTesla Thinking Solar check out DroneQuote: geni.us/DroneQuote Join Us on Patreon! geni.us/TwoBitPatreon Two Bit da Vinci Merchandise! geni.us/TwoBitMerch Visit ALL of our Affiliate Links! www.twobitdavinci.com/links!

[@alpegeyalcin8726]

Serisouly though who wouldn't support you on Patreon after enjoying such a well made content. Thank you ;)

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Thank you so much for saying that... it really is motivating :) We have a lot of great stuff in the works!

[@eotmanoftheyear]

Two Bit da Vinci, very impressed. Thanks for the insight!

[@philiprowney]

First visit to your channel and you can't convert units, not a very good reason to follow you. Inaccuracy kills a source.

[@L3uX]

Two Bit da Vinci Pretty much spot on. But did you mention that the rear motor can be used in waste heat mode to heat up the car really well, especially start ups for the days beside software preconditioning/predictions.

[@douglasbkerr]

One tiny little quibble: You mentioned that you should cut back on the seat heaters to extend range. Using the seat heaters on an EV uses very little electricity. For that reason, it is suggested that you USE the seat heater and cut back on the cabin temperature. Seat heaters are your friend.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

sure this is a bit subjective. The same resistive heating elements are at play in both, so based on number of passengers, and personal preference, do what works for you! I like warm air on my feet

[@douglasbkerr]

I get it. In the low range days of 75 to 85 miles, people would go to extremes in order to keep warm; blankets and boots were the norm. And thank you for all your hard work. I've owned five EVs since 2013, and around ten fossil cars. My Model 3 is by far the best car I've ever owned.

[@compu85]

The dash heater can draw thousands of watts. The seat heaters are in the low hundreds.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Yeah, you can set the heat to a lower setting, you should factor comfort, preference, and number of occupants. But do what makes the most sense for you, and do some experimenting! We'd love to see the data from anyone who does it!

[@CubbyTech]

Not really - most electric seat heaters use 90-120 watts of electricity. The electric-resistive heaters inside EV's range from 2500 - 6000 watts or more.

[@colddesign12]

You recommend not running seat heaters, but it's much more energy efficient to run those with reduced cabin temps since the heat is direct to your body, and not dispersed through air in the cabin.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Yeah that is purely up to the user. Seat heaters usually aren’t enough for me. I prefer heat on my feet. But you’re totally right the heater in the seats use less energy than the cabin heater!

[@larryspiller15]

Seat heaters are fine up to -5/-10°c but colder then that you need the air too. At least my opinion. Maybe you live in a warmer area then myself, maybe not though

[@mattlane2282]

If you spent that kinda money on a car... your gona sit in it and be cold? LOL. I'm toasty warm in my POS 80's diesel...

[@colddesign12]

@Matt Lane you might be focusing on the wrong thing here...

[@OldFormat]

Living where I do, I literally never turn on my car's heater. A/C runs for 9 months a year though.

[@PRUDENCEIAS]

This side of KZbin is called: knowledge!

[@IncroyablesExperiences]

Please, energy density in Wh/kg, not W/kg (power density). How can neophytes understand if everyone makes the mistake? I'm sorry to be aggressive but I'm annoyed everyone makes this mistake, even this pretty good channel! You cannot confuse these units talking about batteries, it's soo disappointing and it's not a small mistake, especially if this video is designed for engineers. *Great video anyway* :)

[@fp2634]

Hahaha. So true, and such a frequent mistake

[@chankokkeong802]

Being a KZbinr is very hard, much respect to this high quality Engineering video.

[@petergoestohollywood382]

He(and so many others) makes this mistake in almost every video. Even in the newer ones still.

[@jnrivers]

LEAF's use a HVAC system for heating and cooling generally. The lower trim level uses resistive heating. Also, heated seats are dramatically more efficient than heating the entire cabin.

[@Legominder]

7:42 Third reason: Cellphones and Laptops don't have temperature controlling keeping the battery at proper temperatures when charging etc.. All in all these information, despite a few unironed spots, are incredibly well-prepared and also well-presented. Calmly, allowing to focus, think and understand. Thank you very much for your incredible work.

[@Hubjeep]

12:41 That's the FIRST time that guy has ever removed an oil cap!!! :D

[@nixeco]

So he buys one that has no oil cap.These cars are techy cars for techy people. So the Iphone generation should love them, if they can afford one. And then there is the minimalist movement, so let's all live in tiny houses, drive bikes, and grow your own food, yes?

[@dundermifflinity]

Yep, you can tell! Good spot.

[@TheIdiotPlays]

15:58 -27C here in Finland last winter. My 2004 polo, semi faulty ignition, broken lambda, broken catalytic converter, leaking exhaust system. Starts with first crank albeit sounds a bit rough. Though that thing sucks money like a leech when you fix the issues it has :P

[@Kvickification]

He meant Diesel not Petrol engines.

[@Deathwalker666666]

Even modern Diesel diesel engines does not require those gadgets. Whats great about those shots of the cars is that maker of this video does not know european car plates since those cars are from Russia where winters generally are way harsher than the -27C. And from what i see those shots the cars are from Tomsk Oblast are if you want to know thats West Syberian Plain which means in those EV probably would not even start during the winter.

[@rodrigojds]

your car battery must be brand new then!!

[@Deathwalker666666]

You know you just defeated the whole point of having EV by your sentence, because it just show how much of denial. Great idea brand new battery for every winter. The thing even if manufacturer of battery says it can work -27C you really don't want it work in those conditions(in other words do go with your EV cars anywhere with temp. lower than -22C) since it would damage the battery so much that you will need a brand new one.

[@ihavenoidea4727]

I have a car fail to start every winter in finland. And ive owned 5 brand new ones. Joka vitun talvi

[@byram101]

This was incredibly well done.. easy to recommend this as one of the best layman's breakdowns of this technology I have seen. Each of the 160K of us that have seen this so far.. have come away smarter from this well though-out presentation. Kudos to you for this.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Wow ... that's a great compliment, thank you so much!

[@coorbin]

I have a 2018 Honda Clarity PHEV and I'm loving it. Since buying the car (used) I've made about 20 trips, the majority of which were to work and back (23 mi each way) and my gas engine has only turned on once to do a "System Check" (a routine process to make sure it's working well) in the past 2.5 weeks. I have 283 miles of range in the nearly-full 7 gallon gas tank. I'll post back when I have to actually visit a gas station and fill up. :D I feel like Tesla is largely responsible for pushing manufacturers like Honda to make EVs and PHEVs.

[@EleTruk]

Cute that you use a clutch plate as the figure for the DC-AC Inverter (which you called AC-DC inverter, which is backwards, AC-DC is done simply with rectifiers).

[@TroyeWelch]

Ele Truk and yet there is still some nutjob insisting that Tesla is supplying him with their own graphics. lol.

[@atomicsmith]

I'm not sure about your advice to not use seat heaters. They draw only a few amps, but can improve comfort greatly. The best advice I've seen is to run the cabin heater until it's comfortable, then turn it down or off and then leave the seat heaters on to stay warm...

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Totally I think that’s personal preference and honestly you can try some trial and error read your power consumption meter and see how it plays out! Share what you find

[@Ingineerix]

I concur. The seat heaters are nothing in the scheme of things. You'll save more power turning on the seat heaters and lowing the heat temp setting by 1 degree.

[@DevildogDMD]

Great videos but why use a clutch plate graphic as the inverter? And didn't I see a turbo in there too?

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

lol... Limited Visual assets...hopefully you get the gist :)

[@DevildogDMD]

Yeah it's fantastic!!!! Great work!!!

[@davefoc]

What, Tesla inverters don't look like clutch plates? Who knew? Maybe you could get Tesla to change their inverters so they look like clutch plates so the image in your video would be right.

[@dizzywow]

It would be nice to see Tesla offer a manual tranny, as an option! 8)

[@vallhund2901]

Thank you for correcting the materials cost error in part 1.

[@irfanalam1524]

really appreciate the last mentioning of your effort in the making of this video

[@garthwoodworth3558]

You guys are making a professional effort to provide valuable information for everyone interested in Tesla. I have had a Model S for more than 3 years, and as much as I keep up, reading almost every article and seeing a great number of videos - your information and presentation is the most accurate, dense and complete I have seen. I have a recommendation: since you appear to be on track to basically create a 'Tesla Encyclopedia', I believe you might enhance the value of your project with an indexing system. An indexing system could be as simple or as complex as you choose to design. However, I see a complexly designed indexing system as eventually generating great rewards for both you and your viewers. It would be a big undertaking. 1. Simplicity from the start would only need to categorize your videos by subject matter - a 'table of contents'. 2. More complex would be to create an interactive tree of related material organized to send researchers logically to the level their prior research indicates would be most useful them, i.e., answer their questions before they ask them. 3. Much more complex would be to access timestamps within each video so that keyword searches could provide your viewers with links to related snippets across the breadth of your video library, giving very detailed access to all the material you accumulate. They could in effect build their own video. lol - maybe I'm making an impossible work project with this last suggestion. I suggest it because I absolutely see your efforts producing the quality and detail that is sure to satisfy Tesla researchers. After all, you are entering a rapidly expanding market.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

we're going to digest this awesome quote, and we'll keep in touch with you going forward!

[@pacsmacks7142]

I love this channel already. 3mins in and I can’t even stop thinking about how amazing it is for someone to not only get all this information but to make a 21min video on it. Haven’t watch the full video since I’m super tired from work but definitely will watch the rest later. Amazing work and content keep it.

[@josemarirobledo5613]

this video is so complete u wont ask any more

[@gnagyusa]

Rel life numbers: I bought a Model S in 2013. I got about 265 miles on a charge. 6.5 years later, I get about 259 miles on a full charge. So, the big range degradation story is a myth.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

That’s fantastic data, thanks for sharing!

[@Smedleydog1]

Do you charge your car to 100% and discharge it to say 10% to get maximum range? Or do you charge to 80% and discharge to 30% as stated in this video? I'm just wanting to understand how much of the battery pack's power reserve is used to get the range you state. Thank you.

[@StopTeoriomSpiskowym]

Try tesla in snow and cold

[@spacedoge3508]

@@StopTeoriomSpiskowym doesn't the batterys warm up quite fast anyways?

[@littleman9055]

But you are not saving the world either. That is a myth too

[@nimblybimbly4002]

When people are talking about lithium reserves they're not talking about lithium stacked in the back of a warehouse somewhere. That refers to all of the resource that is economically feasible to extract. I'm not saying that's an issue to worry about right now, but the way you mentioned it in your narration made it sound like there's lots more to be had somewhere. That's not the case. 18:35

[@karenrobertsdottir4101]

Superb video - I've never seen you before. But very well done. Might have been worth mentioning that the Model 3 has the batteries pre-attached to the cooling ribbon to aid in assembly - it's like a machine gun's ammunition belt.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Yeah not sure if we were clean on that, but thanks for the info!

[@paulcalmond]

Karen Pease I found the battery cooling to be an interesting solution but wonder about the coolant system only having contact with a small percentage if the cell, it seems to rely heavily on the "thermal paste"

[@dzerres]

@@paulcalmond Actually it looks like it has almost half of one complete side in contact with the cooling ribbon- more than I thought it would.

[@catawallupinbear3796]

I want my next car to be wicked fast, totally silent, and run on the sunlight hitting my roof at home. Fun is good, but FREE fun is better.

[@jimbeaver27]

sorry nothing is free, no idea where you get these ideas

[@radaroreilly9502]

If you only rely on the sunlight hitting your roof, you won’t go very far... and all these things aren’t free...

[@Asun888]

my model 3 is fast, silent, and charged by 17kw solar system in my backyard. Absolutely fun, but not free. The solar system cost $42000 after government incentive. That’s equivalent to 10years of my FPL bill. So after 10 years, if the system still works, I get my electricity free.

[@jimmykimmel4753]

The picture of your AC/DC Inverter is a Clutch Plate lol???

[@Mike-kr5dn]

Yeah noticed it too

[@spattisson]

Yeah, also spent a while looking at that! I think a AC/DC converter would have fewer moving parts!

[@sjh7132]

After watching part 1 and part 2, this seems more like a Tesla commercial than independent research. This seems especially evident with some of the statements about completing technologies. For instance I've never seen anywhere near a 50% loss in range of my Bolt due to cold. And I grew up in Wisconsin, and started our gas car in -50F temps at least once a year. (With no block heater.). There also is a lot of 'Tesla does it this way, that that's the best', without weighing the advantages or disadvantages of the various approaches. I also doubt the the battery design in other cars is based on 'what room was left over'. I found this interesting, but I feel like I need to watch videos produced by the other manufacturers to get a balanced point of view.

[@Jayeeyee]

13:35 The AC-DC Inverter image is an image of a clutch friction disc. I am not following the logic behind a mechanical torque transfer part having any relation to an electronic part.

[@jacko101]

Also, the pump image is an image of a Turbo not a water pump.

[@Jayeeyee]

​@@jacko101 If you're referring to the "AC Motor" image, that's actually an alternator. "Electronics" is just a computer motherboard. TBdV needs better stock image skills.

[@osazemeusen1091]

This is the channel to be. The depth of these videos is simply mind boggling 😊

[@solarstacks]

FYI on old 2012 Tesla S 85 we had 1 cell go low. The car would not charge. We had to drop the pack and bypass that one cell to get it all working and charging again. It's so goo the newer Tesla have over come that issue.

[@williamtakacs7466]

You tell truths that I agree with. Must caveat that by stating I've not seen the entire video and may or may not agree with some of your assertions. That aside what I have heard resonates. I was immediately on the heat problem, which you immediately explained in a clear and concise manner. Cuddos Dude! :)

[@dl6262]

Wow your work ethic and execution is amazing! Such great content! I’m a Tesla owner and it’s great to learn about the tech that’s in my car. Keep up the great work!

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Thank you! That really means a lot to us ;)

[@dnldnl4880]

This is great set of videos excellent info with high production value

[@nightfly4664]

I went into this video expecting to feel worse about my car, but now I feel even better about it!

[@WinnyJ1]

Got no problem starting my diesel when its -40 But i would rather have a petrol when its that cold because some diesels like our X trail can not produce enough heat to warm the car when its that cold, but my A4 2.5 can. Sure i know there are solutions, but I would rather have a petrol car when its winter. Then i don't have to remember to mix petrol and diesel when i am filling our diesel cars. Don't see myself owning a Tesla or a electric.

[@davidellis279]

WinnyJ1. Mixing diesel and petrol together to prevent it freezing in winter, I haven't used that idea since the worst winter ever in the UK in 1962/3 when if froze for 12 weeks solid. Since then the wax which used to cause the gelling problem has all but been eliminated from diesel fuel plus additives are added in winter fuel. If you live in extremely cold climates and diesel gelling is still a problem then just add 25 per cent Kerosene to your fuel which will solve the problem, you don't see commercial airline jets having problems with freezing fuel at -50dc when at 40,000 ft but they use 100 per cent jet fuel which is basically Kerosene, putting petrol in one of the high pressure direct injection Diesel engines is Not a good idea because petrol is a spirit and has no lubricating properties in it so may cause very expensive damage to the fuel injection system.

[@MasterYoshidino]

BMS appears to be overhyped in this video. This is common as dirt in batteries. It's why cellphones don't spontaneously explode when given odd extremes like high current recharge but in a hot environment they slow down and in a common hybrid/ev the system will protect the batteries from reaching an event that can cause a fire. (overcurrent protection is why phones don't catch fire when left overnight while charging)

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

yeah, but your phone BMS isn't monitoring 4000 individual cells. So can be both as common as dirt, but especially good

[@MsSomeonenew]

BMS systems are common as dirt now, but the difference between stuff in regular appliances and the really good stuff is night and day. In particular your cell phone or power tool BMS has absolutely no problems letting the battery die within the year, but manufacturers who guarantee a 10 year life span need to play a whole new ball game.

[@Alexlfm]

The BMS on the Tesla isn't nearly as advanced as the cell phone in many ways. It does NOT manage the charging of individual cells, rather only modules, and the only balancing being done is with bleed resistors which is wasting energy and rather crude (and this is done on the module level). However for the application this is normal as it is not possible due to cost to do individual cells. That said it is not any different from any other car on the market. There is nothing that is at all special. The module board takes care of itself and then just reports to the BMS. The main BMS is not doing the individual balancing. Also if you have a bad cell, the entire module still has to be scrapped. A cell phone with multiple battery packs actually manages the charge to each of the batteries and they are managed at a truly cellular level. The Tesla BMS does not do this They are completely different things.

[@Arcona]

The Bms is monitoring each parallel set, not individual cells.

[@Fliptality]

that what they do in RC hobby since like ages....

[@kl3nd4thu]

16:55 - I think that is where Tesla's acquisition of Maxwell Technology comes into play. Tesla can integrate Maxwell's capacitors to capture regen engergy while the Li-Ion batteries heats up to optimal temps.

[@rainerrand7780]

Skeleton capasitors is future

[@oldrrocr]

interesting that in 2020 this topic has only 4 thumbs up. this whole thing is DRIVEN by battery technology - that's why it didn't take off earlier - pitiful batteries. The combination of Li-ion and capacitors opens up a new chapter - humbly IMO. Isn't the final answer, but so much better than anything else right now.

[@johngilbert5326]

I ordered a Tesla Model 3 Standard Range (220 mile) through a Sales Office on Friday. I received the online invoice and it said I had ordered a Standard Range Plus (240). I called my Tesla representative and I was told they are basically the same car minus the auto pilot and they lock down the charge capacity to 220 miles. So they do have computer toggle to do such things on Model 3 's with the Standard Battery. This video did clear up for me the difference between the Standard/ Standard Plus battery and the Long Range Battery. Thanks!

[@wyvern4588]

I have a Bolt, I only charge to 90% and bring down to 40% I really don't want to pay $15K for a battery if I keep it till the warranty runs out. Plus I know a lot about battery chemistry as a drone pilot/builder/frame designer. Don't keep your battery fully charged all the time! This is also why I think high amp charging is a poor idea if used constantly.

[@sjh7132]

I also have a Bolt, and do the same thing. Most of the time, I'm trickle charging on the 800 watt setting. I generally keep my battery between 50% and 80% charged, only going higher if I'm planning a long trip. I believe fast charging does stress batteries, even if you keep them cool.

[@smokeystover6879]

Outstanding video-you are the best! 👍👍Very easy to follow and a very comprehensive technical breakdown of the model 3 battery. I look forward to the next video. Thank you.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

[Ricky] Thank you! If you have ideas or questions about any of these topics, please don't be shy, we love bringing content our viewers actually want to see

[@smokeystover6879]

I’m trying to keep my charging at no greater than 80% on a somewhat daily basis. Not necessary to charge every day, but keep plug in when at home. It will be interesting to see over time what effect this method will have on the battery life, as far as degradation. Had model 3 for less than a month about 770 miles so far. I’m using the app TezLab so my car data is being collected.

[@sohaibyounus]

Good job, the detailed info and the quality of the video is impressive to say the least! Looking forward to the next video going over the full impact of EV on the environment.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Yes we hope to cover that within the next few months

[@countrysoul2592]

I drive a hybrid Chrysler van the engine had gotten gas line freeze-up. It wouldn't run but the electric motors did. I was amazed at the power they had! I tramped on it thinking the engine would kick in but it didn't. Had to turn around and go back to the garage because I did not have any interior Heat. Next day it started up and was just fine. Of course I had a gas line antifreeze.

[@kaushilkundalia2197]

This is some real high quality video. Both in terms of production and content. Very brilliant research done ! Thank you

[@tedbear631]

This is great. I was really curious about what the Tesla packs looked like. Thanks boissss

[@sickbailey21]

nice work on correcting the mistakes in the previous video. Between these last two episodes I've checked in on, you definitely deserve a sub. Thanks for the hard work dude :)

[@gregscott989]

At around 14:00 minutes you have a graphic about coolant flow. It shows an icon for electronics, one for the AC motor and one for the AC-DC inverter. The icon for the AC-DC inverter is actually a picture of a clutch disk. Didn't know Teslas had clutches....:-)

[@Simon-dm8zv]

exactly my thoughts..

[@spinyheghog]

Chevy uses pouch batteries because the form factor is built for the cabin and closed battery thermal management system. You have gen 1 volt owners with over 450,000miles and the only pack degradation is non mileage impacting. The 3 radiators on the volt are as big as the cooling on a Corvette. You also have battery heating/cooling loop and pack independent heating. The bolt steps that up with two cooling loops that can heat and independent pack heating. What this allows you to do over tesla design is charge much more efficiently. You can actually maintain your vehicle and charge with a level 1 charge.

[@mackenziec]

Watt hours / kg, not Watts! WattHour = energy, Watt = power

[@emailkanji]

Watt/kg is also a very useful metric. When was this said?

[@OldFormat]

4:24. It's a mistake.

[@telocho]

watthour or Joule?

[@iCrackUriDevice]

Great video!

[@EleanorPeterson]

Just wanted to say something about the cold weather points mentioned. I've no experience at all with EVs, but my old Nissan Micra (1 litre petrol engine) never let me down in cold weather. It was parked outside all year and started first time, every time, however bad the winter. I bought it third-hand in 1996 and ran it happily till 2012, when I suddenly became poor, sold it, and went back to riding my old bicycle instead. I'm not sure where the idea that petrol cars can't handle freezing conditions came from. Diesel fuel IS affected by very cold weather. I think most lorries and trucks with exposed diesel fuel tanks have heaters to keep the fuel flowing in below-zero conditions. Once again, though, as far as I know, they start and run without any fuss in winter.

[@Jonaasti]

Re: unlocking full battery life. Not quite right. They didn't have enough small battery packs but had more then enough big ones. rather then charging people more for something they didn't want or giving them more for free, they use the larger packs but locked the extra battery usage out via software. The users got exactly what they paid for. During the storm elon unlocked the full usage and later relocked it. but this only applied to a vary tiny subset of cars.

[@sagarmeena0210]

love the video and explanation...thank you for making this.

[@aliesmaili5018]

Great video man, Looking forward to the following videos. Keep it going my dude.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Thanks Ali, if you have ideas or questions for future videos, don't be shy!

[@BLAISEDAHL96]

How do you make the 3d walk throughs? I am thoroughly impressed with the professional quality

[@slartybartfarst9737]

Brilliant video tells the Tesla story tech so concisely. I work in auto electrics design so one small point seat heaters use 1/10th cabin heater energy. Use the seat heaters and drop the cabin. Try it check your consumption.

[@Dumah2007]

13:37 >''Electronics'' that's a PC motherboard ! >''AC-DC Inverter'' that's a Clutch ! what?

[@hp2084]

I would say thats power electronics.

[@d4ze266]

an actual computer guy would know that is not a motherboard... stoooop

[@Max24871]

@@d4ze266 Thats exactly what a motherboard looks like, even tough the pcie slots are drawn backwards.

[@Marcelcas]

At 4:34 where it's 167 watts/kg should be 167 wh/kg. That's gravimetric energy density. Gravimetric power density has the units W/kg.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Yes good point, sorry for the mix up there

[@johnnyridesbmx]

No batteries in the modules are upside down. The cooling tube doesn’t wrap around the batteries. Also, the cheaper model 3 uses 4 24’s and the other two models use what you mentioned. Almost everything else is right. I’d say more, but NDA lol.

[@wickedleeloopy2115]

That's pretty good. With an 8 year warranty , if I consider buying a model 3 , I will keep it for 7 years & 11 months before I sell it 😬.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Based on all the data I’ve seen, they should run for about 250k miles ;)

[@MiltonAlvis]

Excellent overview in part 1 and part 2.

[@kenboo4]

Fascinating videos on Tesla battery technology. Extremely engaging content.

[@tejami]

Very well made video. I want to know Tesla model X 2017 will have the same battery management system as I believe this is a game changer and a big difference between other car manufacturers and Tesla can some one share a video or explain what’s inside Tesla Model X Batterie pack?

[@phuqdcreator]

This was a very informative video. One thing that you kept going over was the reserve of resources used to make the EV batteries, and in the end that it would still be able to supply battery packs to 500 million EV cars. But there seemed to be zero calculation for the same available resources which are being used for other batteries and other manufacturing lines which would diminish those figures quite considerably.. Thanks for the great video, good job!

[@victorseal9047]

Pleasing to listen to and watch. Thank you !

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Thanks Victor!

[@Aerostealth]

As far as winter weather is concerned in northern climates EV owners and aspiring EV owners will be pleased to know that cold weather operations really impacts internal combustion engines drastically also. Fuel mileage can be reduced as much as 30% or more until the transmission warms up which can be as much as 20 miles of driving. The differential can take even longer then that. Tires, the suspension elements, and the rolling resistance are all similarly effected. Since ICE vehicles have such poor efficiency performance to begin with cold weather operations are worse by a factor of three or more for most normal short driving trips in gas vehicles in the cold.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Thanks for being Active John, I wasn't sure if you'd stick around after our part 1 conversion issues, but great points

[@familiant72]

john gilkison John, Do you have similar to ICE data for US power generation, transmission, distribution as well as charging efficiencies? Especially for fast chargers and batteries at this mode of charging?

[@delrliang]

So much raw materials! I am totally sold. All questions answered!

[@kermitefrog64]

I have to admit I am driving a 97 Buick Park Avenue with 30 mpg on the highway with synthetic oil and upkeep and a 1981 Mercedes 240d but this is intriguing. If there are more charging stations a Tesla would be the way to go. I would like to be able to take trips that sometimes take a few days of driving without a lot of hassle to find a place to recharge the battery but this is definitely the future of transportation.

[@chadmcdowell5582]

Did I miss it? you mentioned at the beginning of part 1 that part 2 would cover battery recycling.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

No, the series ran super long. It will be a stand alone video in the near future. Our apologies we’ll still learning as we go with this stuff ;)

[@JRP3]

Worth noting that most of the battery packs which needed replacement were not because of problems with the cells or cell interconnects. They were mostly because of failed high voltage contactors or software miscalculations. It's just faster for the customer for Tesla to pull out the pack and replace it on the spot and then analyze it later.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Great feedback

[@ClockworksOfGL]

JRP3 - Same story with those early defective Model S motors. Even though it was simply a matter of replacing a bearing and grounding brush, it was easier for Tesla just to swap out the entire powertrain. I’ve heard it takes about an hour to do so. On an German car, you’re still trying to get the hood open after an hour.

[@virginiaragtopper]

You have created the most succinct informational video I've seen to date about the current battery technology applicable to motorcars. There's a lot to learn regarding Lithium battery technology, and it's clear from your two-part video presentation that Tesla and Panasonic are worldwide leaders in the evolution of battery technology and electric cars.The future is promising, and it's exciting to be a small part of it. Kudos to your efforts and easy to understand videos!!

[@dominatriex]

A bit misleading to incorporate rending time. Most people don't understand what that time means, and you grouped it with 3D modeling time. I feel like you want to be honest and open, and I totaly appreciate you sharing the costs and hours in your work. Rendering is taxing on your system and takes time that can stall work on improving to the final product. It's not completely unfair to factor that in, but it is a bit misleading. Still liked and subscribed and belled. I am thankful for your work and dedication and persistance.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Rendering time takes thousands of dollars of hardware and computers and rigs with 4 GPUs. Plus when I made that video GPUs were astronomically expensive. Rendering time is a huge capital cost one must control. Otherwise it’s not possible to sustain on a KZbin release schedule. Thanks and so glad to have you!

[@LucasGuanes]

Amazing work put into this video

[@Hundert1]

Many thanks for the updates ! Remember the whole purpose of science and technology is to make life safer, healthier, better, easier, and more fun for EVERYONE!! ( here on planet EARTH of course)

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

agreed!

[@twig3288]

My car had a fuel tank capacity of 15.4 gallons when it was new. After ten years the fuel tank can still hold 15.4 gallons. Amazing!

[@Laserblade]

Thanks for the education. Taking delivery on our model 3 in a few days, and the information is very helpful. That was a lot of research for our benefit. Well done, Subscribed.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Congrats! What configuration!

[@Laserblade]

Dual motor, big battery, and enhanced autopilot. I went with the 18 inch aero wheels to soften the ride a bit. I don't care for the looks of the snap-on wheel cover, but the alloy wheel under it isn't bad looking. I'll snap on the covers when doing long distance driving. Really looking forward to saying goodbye to gasoline, oil/changes, transmission/fluid and around 2,000 other moving parts subject to failure. I appreciate the tips on charging, your work gave me a better understanding of battery health! Thanks!

[@lewtenant_k]

I'm pretty sure the Nissan Leaf has at least the option for a heat pump in some years. This video implies that only Tesla's have heat pumps.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Sorry yeah we didn’t mean to imply that. Just speaking about Tesla

[@loungelizard836]

Yes, Nissan put heat-pump heaters (like a reversed AC) in 2013 and above. 2011 & 2012 used resistive heating which can only be 100% efficient at best (1 KW of electricity gives 1 KW of heat). Heat pumps allow efficiency far above 1:1!

[@edwindewit8349]

Lounge lizard, efficiency can never be >1. What you mean to say is that it costs less power to transport heat generated with even more power. e.g. you can heat air with a 3kW heating element but it will take maybe only 600W to move it around.

[@petrvalkoun4539]

Edwin de Wit speaking of heat pumps, you can define efficiency as heat output divided by electric input, which then produces efficiency of 300-400%.

[@calvindibartolo2686]

@@petrvalkoun4539 that's not how efficiency works LOL You're right though, heat energy can be measured in watts, but it's nowhere near 300-400%. It's claimed 100% efficient because 100% of the energy that goes in comes out as 100% heat (because we *want* heat, whereas normal electronics heat is undesirable, which detracts from efficiency), however it also introduces wear on the heating element, which takes away from efficiency.. However that heat is then dispersed into the air which can only take so much so quickly (heat capacity) and can only transfer so much so quickly. If you hold your hand to the heater to warm it up, you'll get near 100% efficiency, but any time you add a medium to transfer heat through before it reaches your end target, you're losing heat to it, and air is one of the worst mediums to try and transfer heat.

[@OldFormat]

4:24 Talking about density in terms of watts per kilogram doesn't make much sense. Peak power does matter but in this context I think you meant to be talking about watt-hours/kilogram or joules/kilogram. Energy density not power density.

[@johnabuick]

I've had no problem starting modern gas and diesel powered vehicles even at -40. The problem with a lot of older vehicles is they use regular oil like 10-30 instead of synthetic. Having said that I would love to have an electric vehicle for work but the 40 or 50 grand is a show stopper.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Yeah totally know what you mean

[@raymondwong2521]

Good that you talk about cooling system for Tesla batteries. There was a Model S which was parked in a garage last week in China. The car suddenly caught on fire by itself. So, is it the fault of Tesla's cooling system? What if in a typical American home which is made entirely of wood, and the Tesla catches on fire by itself while parked? Will it burn down the house and the entire sleeping family?

[@GeFeldz]

15:55 "In freezing temperatures, a lot of petrol cars won't even start" - which petrol cars are you referring to? Virtually all of the car manufacturers test their cars in arctic winter conditions and make sure they can be relied on. If you keep the battery of your petrol car charged, you should be able to start it in extremely cold conditions. A lot of car manufacturers test their cars here in the northern parts of Sweden, especially in the arctic winter. Sometimes the temperature can drop to about -40 degrees F or C (at -40 the two scales intersect), however the temperature can be below -20 degrees C/ -4 degrees F for weeks at a time in the winter. Northern Sweden and northern scandinavia in general is the land of great contrast. -40 degrees C/F extremes in the winter and almost 40 degrees C/104 degrees F extremes in the summer. Usually it stays between -30C/-22F in the winter and 30C/86F in the summer but the extremes do occur and once every few years there can be extremes of below -40C/F and above 40C/104F. Most people use electric heaters in the winter to warm their engines for significantly reduced wear and significantly increased comfort, but the cars are engineered to start in pretty extreme cold.

[@bistrovogna]

The starter battery, especially if a couple years old, could easily die after a couple cold starts in -40! Also, diesel are worse than petrol in those temps.

[@shaneebahera8566]

@@bistrovogna you can get your battery tested for cold cranking before winter a lot of place here in the UK will do it for free. Diesel engines will have a harder time starting but with modern engines we are talking of a just a couple more turns before it starts

[@robertmarquez1137]

I use to have to plug my cavalier in every night in North Dakota or it wouldn't start the next day. block heater it was called

[@Plisko1]

A lot of people in the US drive old model cars. Still more people in the US don't pay a lot of attention to maintenance of their cars. Both of these conditions create a lot of petrol cars that don't start in the cold. We can't refute this point by assuming all petrol cars are modern, tested in Sweden, and fully maintained. We simply need to look at how many petrol cars a year call for roadside assistance because they wouldn't start in the cold.

[@brownmold]

I agree with GeFeldz. I've never experienced a modern FFE not starting just due to the cold. Quite simply, the statement is offered without evidence, or any real meaning. How many cars is "a lot?" "Freezing temperatures?" Which model cars can't manage under zero degrees Celsius?

[@sku32956]

I like the idea Tesla Engineers start from scratch if need be instead of piggy backing on existing technology to save money. This is costly but can have big leaps forward that were stopping other car companies.

[@chazgurrero3090]

Try creating something then tell us your experience. Talk is cheap.

[@Dirigius]

In PC Watercooling, a common myth is that components within a loop will differ in temperature according to their placement with the radiator (the element discharging the heat). In actuality, the water temperature stabilizes and becomes uniform, due to the volume and flow. That said, how does the cooling solution differ in the Tesla battery? If the temperature delta is an actual issue, resolving such a problem would be very simple by introducing bi-directional flow channels or multiple heat exchanging points in the loop. I've built watercooling PCs for years, and it seems unlikely for such a trivial problem to exist in such a high tech device.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

The length of run in your PC is what, 1-2 feet? The ribbons on the packs are really long. I’ve seen some Jays 2 Cents on the topic ;) but the difference is the length of run

[@donlarsenjr2332]

I really appreciate all of the research you did for our benefit! You rock!

[@kc2094]

The thing that bothers me a bit is how he calls it "Tesla's battery" all the time, as if Panasonic isn't doing anything. Panasonic makes these batteries in the Gigafactory. They share the Gigafactory, with most of the space being for Panasonic. It's Tesla owned of course, and Tesla is a client for Panasonic, but it doesn't mean that Panasonic can't just get other clients, as well.

[@Tore_Lund]

Does anyone know the efficiency of the model 3 motor? Being a PM motor, it should be over 90%??- Looking forward to your life cycle analysis, i.e. how long you need to drive your Tesla before you've emitted less than sticking with your petrol car. About winter driving: 4WD is really not needed and is an extra penalty when fighting reduced battery capacity. Keeping the battery warm when you need it, is simply a matter of programming your charger to finish when you need the car for your morning commute. That also makes it charge at night where electricity is cheapest.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Yes we’ll definitely get into that

[@TroyeWelch]

Tore Lund those are all really good points.

[@dhui777]

Excellent and informative videos! You guys should receive some sort of award from Tesla. If you have additional parts in this series, please also address the charge retention issue of these rechargeable batteries in EVs. Unlike gasoline cars where no one expects the fuel would evaporate after a long idle time, EVs have this unique issue of losing range in idle, just like an iPad that is in idle or even turned off. This prevents people from parking their EVs in the airport unplugged for a long vacation. I think this is an important and overlooked issue of EVs. Teslanomics actually has a video comparing the phantom battery drain of different Tesla models, and Model 3 ranks the worst with an average loss of about 12-15 miles every day which eats significantly into the efficiency of the car. Most importantly, a model 3 can end up with a permanent battery damage if left unplugged and unattended for a long period of time, which is highly undesirable.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Great point the series got so big we couldn’t cover absolutely everything but yes we’ll cover more topics like discharge during storage / retention in future videos!!

[@dhui777]

Two Bit da Vinci, fantastic! Thanks.

[@arenjay3278]

Engine heaters are not pads, they are heaters that are built to connect to the engine block. They are called block heaters. Two, you don't need AWD in cold weather, you need Studded Snow tires. I live in Canada where it gets really cold -40 cold. AWD doesn't stop or turn better than RWD, studded tires do.

[@darrenorange2982]

Recirculation is the best way to save energy on heating...Works great in my Bolt.

[@LoneWolfZ]

You talk about an "inefficient resistive heater". Resistive heaters are close to 100% efficient. Just FYI :)

[@davidsuzukiispolpot]

True! Lol

[@Poxenium]

I don't understand why Teslas don't use the AC for heating too ... most home AC units sold today have a function called "INVERTER", which reverses the heat pump, taking heat from the outside (air temp must be at least -20C) and bringing it in.... depending on price and quality, the heating efficiency of these AC units is about the same as their cooling efficiency, between 300-400% (thermal energy obtained/electricity used).

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Because they already have waste heat from all the other electronics and powertrain

[@Poxenium]

Well, I guess it's a cost efficient compromise, but I'm betting the Model S and X will get that heat pump inverter, instead of the current 6000W hair dryer type heater. It would make a huge difference when you're just waiting or camping in the car.... 6000W vs. 1500W consumption...

[@stenseemann8614]

There is not enough waste heat to heat the cabin in a cold climate. As Karpat says, they really should be using an air source heat pump like BMW and Nissan use.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@stenseemann8614 (Actually confirms the efficiency of EV's compared to the massive heat produced by ICE!😉)

[@MsSomeonenew]

They don't have a separate air heat exchanger because the whole car cooling system is tied together, meaning they can pull heat out of any other component including the radiator.

[@TheOriginalEviltech]

One thing you missed - even when the batteries die 100% of the raw materials are still in them. Recycling them will be much more efficient than mining new materials! And it's not like home electronics or phones - batteries out of EV's are not likely to be thrown away in the garbage, rather they will probably be a hot selling scrap, just like old catalytic converters from gas and diesel powered cars! And much more expensive!

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Great point! We have a future video planned about the end of life recycling of batteries.

[@hillmans69]

Here's a cold weather improvement idea: use a Direct Ethanol Fuel Cell which produces heat and electricity. Sustainable, efficient, and provides fresh water as a bonus!

[@tuxedoapps3532]

Wow! I was absolutely blown away by the production quality and the depth of knowledge contained in this presentation! Of course I immediately subscribed. I was also astounded by the quality of the Tesla systems and the forethought that went into their design and development. (I'm a Model S owner for about 18 months.) Thank you so much for this amazing video!

[@krishnamohan2351]

I don't know how anyone can dislike this video. The dedication is really visible.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Wow, thank you for your kind words!

[@Chris-ie9os]

Some people just can't handle the truth... :(

[@ABaumstumpf]

The dedication sure, but the facts and specially how they are presented no.

[@therambler3713]

some people just really really hate electric cars

[@mar504]

Definitely appreciate the work put into the video, but there is some misinformation. For instance, the bit about the BMS is wrong.

[@WheatleyOS]

Here in Miami it seems like there's a charging station on every block, so it's definitely not far fetched imo that in the next couple decades charging stations will be nearly as widespread as gas stations, if not even more popular.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Absolutely

[@MWS1960]

There’s an issue with a “clunking” sound while traveling from a warm climate to a cold climate under 36F, which is due to battery expansion. This is happening on cars that were manufactured after May 2018, as the cars built prior to May 2018 had the insulation blanket and newer cars do not have this blanket. Tesla is looking for a fix to this issue due to many customer complaints.

[@FutureSystem738]

Great video, extremely informative, thank you.

[@dadominate]

Outstanding video! Thanks for posting. Just subscribed.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Thanks! Let us know if you have future ideas for videos!

[@junglist920]

Amazing video. tons of great information. I recently started harvesting 18650's out of old electronics to build a small powerwall.. It's 2 fold. I saved em from going to the landfill, and I'm learning.

[@gmcjetpilot]

Your electric cabin heating comments about the Tesla are incorrect. However the Nissan Leaf SV and SL models have hybrid heaters, which use waste heat from the coolant for the inverter and motor electronics. Tesla does not have that yet.

[@trangenusa]

Subscribed, thumb up, Thanks, fascinating, I can't wait to get my 3, with AWD, and High Performance model.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Wow nice! do you have an estimate on delivery?

[@anjeboo91]

thank you for such informative video. really appreciate it.

[@justinmallaiz4549]

Excellent two part series ! One small mention: You should of avoided 'heat pump system' when describing the Tesla system .. Some cars may use heat pumps to generate heat.. As described Tesla does not

[@RonJLow]

When you promised end-of-life analysis, I thought you meant reclaiming materials from totally spent batteries. We need that.

[@TwoBitDaVinci]

We are planning part three soon