The Twilight of an Age

Peak Moment 138: In his book, "The Long Descent", John Michael Greer observes that our culture has two primary stories: "Infinite Progress" or "Catastrophe". On the contrary, he sees history as cyclic: civilizations rise and fall. Like others, ours is exhausting its resource base. Cheap energy is over. Decline is here, but the descent will be a long one. It's too late to maintain the status quo by swapping energy sources. How to deal with this predicament? He lays out practical ideas, possibilities, and potentials, including reconnecting with natural and human capacities pushed aside by industrial life. [www.thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com]

[@despilks]

John Michael Greer is a man to listen to. Things he said here are even more relevant now in 2020.

[@tuckerbugeater]

sick freak

[@erwin643]

I was at the ASPO conference where this was filmed, back in 2008. I actually talked at length with JMG, before I later learned who he was. I practically live for his interviews and lectures. He's been my favorite collapse theorist, for years.

[@erwin643]

@Nehemiah Tadeo OK you guys: What series? What does a movie viewing website have to do with John Michael Greer?

[@peakmoment]

Skills and crafts: anything that helps produce, maintain and repair our necessities: plumbing, cabinetry-making, metal-working, food preservation (canning, drying, smoking, etc.), machine construction, spinning, weaving, dyeing, sewing, knitting, crocheting; leatherworking (shoes, saddles); rope and net construction -- you get the idea?

[@CommongoodMedia]

I really enjoyed this Janaia. Thank you and Robyn for the awesome work you do. Few folks have the experience to understand how much production work goes into even a short interview. I couldn't care less about the technical imperfections when you're giving us such valuable access to someone like Mr. Greer. Thanks for your heart and dedication. You girls rock.

[@a70132]

An excellently done interview; thank you. It's always a pleasure to hear JMG speak and the free flowing discussion was delightful.

[@qboxer]

What a breath of fresh air John Michael Greer is from the usual doomers. I really enjoyed listening to this interview.

[@PNWGlinda]

I think Janaia did a very good job. Some of the interiews on mainstream tv are extremely rude/interruptive. Her short responses give the impression she is listening to what the interviewee is saying. Janaia, thank you for all you do! Including finding that small space in a large event to have this stimulating conversation~I am a bit biased when it comes to JMG though, he's great.

[@Changeworld408]

JMG is also one of my favourite collapse theorist and he also is not an alarmist, I especially enjoyed the last part of the interview.

[@glouconx983]

So when are you going to collapse?

[@Changeworld408]

@@glouconx983 Thanks for asking, financial system is ponzi scheme and all ponzi schemes eventually collapse. You are financial specialist or predicter. Oil will eventually rise to shaply higher prices which will break the camel's back and destroy profits of corporations and limit spending of population leading to slower demand and following less production and less employment...

[@ia8018]

@@glouconx983 Collapse doesn't happen in a day, it's a process that last dacades or even centuries. By 2150, what most of us recognize as civilization now won't be a thing.

[@ia8018]

We're collapsing for around 4 decades by now...

[@MrTrippticket]

I agree that Janaia is an excellent interviewer, and have watched her clips many times over the past 3 or 4 years. However, if you are familiar with John Michael Greer outside of this video you will recognize him as one of the most thoughtful and respectful people to grace our continent. I've openly popped off at him at least once or twice on his blog - thearchdruidreport - and gotten nothing but kindness and patience in response. Viva Peak Moment and viva JMG! Cheers.

[@peakmoment]

Not rude, honest. I appreciate that. My growing edge. Peak, your frustration is understandable. You're 21, and I'd expect your peers don't want to hear it. Consider: the mainstream media barely notices Peak Oil. Why? One reason: it doesn't benefit those in power, the money masters. Another: humanity has never before had an extravagant bonanza of millions of years of energy, and all it has enabled. Thus, we've never had to powerdown at a global scale. Off the charts, and easier to just deny.

[@alcoholfree6381]

Great interview discussing practical ways of dealing practically with the coming changes in our society as oil becomes less available. This man, JMG is a pleasure to listen to. I don’t agree with his takes on religion but respect his views.

[@meredithr9824]

I read this in 2010 or so and its really one of those books that stick in your mind.

[@tuckerbugeater]

crazy eyes

[@redcoltken]

14 years - and this has aged like very fine wine

[@peakmoment]

Thanks for your input, Peak. I'm working to do that.

[@Weaseldog2001]

It's interesting to see you in this series John. you've presented yourself well. It's good to see you here.

[@peakmoment]

Hi Yanqui9 -- we were at a hotel at the ASPO 2008 conference, and scrambled to find a corner anywhere where we could tape John Michael! (This was a bar not yet in use in the afternoon). His newest book, Ecotechnic Future, is quite good. I'll have some comments on my blog Janaia's Journal on the Peak Moment website.

[@steve219able]

even though this may not be a great interview i think its a great conversation

[@Burtonimus]

The biggest Moment touched on about this video is the fact of resources. I know a few have opinions about Americans..... BUT what had made us great is the abundant source of resources we HAD. The Northwest and southeast timber or forests are "gone" or converted into parks. And therefore the gov't subsidies given to those states will not be renewed. The U.S. - states are running out of methods to provide value to markets.... we are selling our last resource to other countries.... LAND....

[@qboxer]

Yep, read both the Long Descent and Ecotechnic Future, now. :) I'm a steady reader of his blog, too. Good stuff.

[@tuckerbugeater]

you'll be fine

[@scarmenl]

However you wish to word it. The need for people to wake up, stand up and smarten up is long over due. The governments and large corporations/banks of any country are only as strong and controlling as we let them be.

[@redcoltken]

10 years Shale is running high - and its going to fall

[@edyersh]

USA oil production peaked in the early 70's and then declined from there. The same thing is happening on a global scale. Factually provable. No myth here.

[@paulineprojectlove]

I like your style. :) It's warm, friendly, interested, sharing. You are not interrupting like many male interviewers tend to do. Remember, gender counts, and we gals have been raised to interact certain ways with men and other ways with women, and men tend to notice it first! Which is why they may call women arrogant and men doing the same exact thing, intelligent. The backlash continues. :) Keep up the awesome work sister!

[@paulineprojectlove]

Janaia, you are an excellent interviewer, despite the chauvinistic comment that asked you to not talk. :) It's typical of many men to see women speaking with authority and sharing their perspectives and having a sharing conversation as "interrupting" or "taking up valuable time". lol. I'm sure that rude fellow would not say the same to Bill Moyers, someone who is always sharing in his conversations. Gender matters.. Thanks! Keep up the great work!

[@peakmoment]

Take a look at our show "Earth, Wood and Sun - Natural Building, Local Style" (episode 239). Not a cottage, but built with the same philosophy.

[@Michael-cl9mb]

Wold you update on Greer's views of today?

[@Weaseldog2001]

I remember when Fleischmann and Pons made that famous announcement. It was a fascinating story. But as to alternative energies, I see no reason to believe that they will come to rescue us and return us to infinite growth for a time. So I believe our best efforts are in focusing on the here and now. What can we do to prepare as things get tougher. Ethanol, looks like a solution looking for a problem, unless you want to dull your senses, and lower your inhibitions.

[@InsightAndEnergy]

Excellent content in this video, and quite balanced (as I see it). The sophisticated commenters here are also on-target. The problem being, nothing replaces the ease of extraction and energy density of oil. Unfortunately, the world population size and the living in extremes of hot and cold has become somewhat dependent on food, heating oil and natural gas, and other conveniences resulting from easy energy. As JMG says, we will go through discomfort.

[@DarkMoonDroid]

I listened to an interview with David Wilcock where he was interrupting constantly, and several comments were telling him to stfu. It was intolerable and I couldn't finish listening.

[@MrEddievanhalo]

John Michael Greer in this video pretty much demonstrates that Civilizations in reality do not work as far sustainability goes. Civilizations become too energy intensive and use up to many resources anyway...how can they work in the first place? Alot of people may disagree with this, but it seems the indigenous way of life has the only true sustainability without any collapse!

[@williammichael1530]

What a genius. Wow 🤯

[@DarkMoonDroid]

Good interview. TY

[@Weaseldog2001]

The scope of the problem is much larger than finding a way to rest in comfort, while commuting to an office. After the Peak, which seems to have occurred in mid 2008, the predictions are economic collapse, increased unemployement and rising food costs.

[@peakmoment]

It's a different style. I'm trying not to interrupt as much, though, but to hear out my guests. I'm so used to the "feminine" style of layered conversation!

[@peakmoment]

You're not alone! It's always challenging to be ahead of the pack. The mainstream media has done a fine job of suppressing this information...because knowledge of peak oil (and other resources) spells the end of the perpetual-growth economy...which is happening even now. Perhaps share "The End of Suburbia" film with your friends. Or our DVD with Richard Heinberg on "Peak Everything" and discuss it (peakmoment-dot-tv). For many people, denial is the first response. The implications are scary!

[@RinkyRoo2021]

I always thought that and went the craft route but nothing seems to change the houses are bigger the trucks get bigger even if gas is 6 $ a gallon some places

[@MrTrippticket]

Check out the cob cottage movement, full of modest but indescribably beautiful structures that eliminate the need for many of the energy-intensive techno-solutions employed in modern architecture, like central heat and air. A far cry from a "mud hut," that I can promise. Watch out for false dichotomies; they lurk behind almost every opinion!

[@SunRabbit]

I hear ya on the False Dichotomies. There always IS a third, fourth, or multiple way. Like I always say, a coin has THREE sides. People see only the front and the back but they never see the edge. Problem is that I personally have always seen those third ways only in retrospect, with 20/20 hindsight. It's strange because I don't believe myself to have dichotomous thinking. Those cob cottages remind me of the Earthships that this guy from the desert southwest of the USA builds all over the world, notably following the Tsunami that afflicted the south Asian coastline. He uses old tyres rammed with soil and integrates passive solar, water storage, heating and everything. Problem is that modern building materials are total CRAP. All new houses are built with Ytongs. Ytong is basically just a solidified plaster foam. It's so lightweight that you can lift a 30 x 30 x 60 cm Ytong "brick" with 1 finger, and actually carve the thing using a plastic credit card. After the base structure is built, the house gets a coat of concrete stucco, which is much harder but, BUT they usually add a 20 cm layer of styrofoam on top of that stucco and then put another 1 cm layer of concrete stucco on it to hold it securely in place. The senselesness of insulating the OUTSIDE of any house is compounded by the fact that in the cold humid low pressure climate of central Europe the condensation point for water vapour occurs INSIDE the styrofoam and I'll betcha any money that in 20 years all these insulated exteriors will be falling on people's heads; in addition to the fact that the greatest leakage of warmth occurs through the windows. If you ask a builder about water windows I have yet to meet one who has heard of them. I'm considering selling one of my used houses and have a new one built but the prices are sky-high and there's no really reliable way of finding a good construction company that'll build it. Yes, hiring an independent construction supervisor is common practise, but if I do go that route I'll probably hire a construction supervisor to supervise the original construction supervisor.

[@scarmenl]

The one major oil field is in Alaska, two others are off the east coast of Canada and the US. You won't hear about them because big oil keeps screwing around with the information. As far as another thing in lieu of oil, how about fuel alcohol! It can be grown from a number of different plants that are not people food. How about the Larson Radax Engine that can produce more power, use far less fuel, does not require an oil pan or a rad and is rated at 54% efficient unlike the car you have now.

[@paulineprojectlove]

It's terrific!

[@AECJ1]

excellent thnx

[@pukulu]

interesting that Greer says that many modern secular myths are just religious ones with the serial numbers filed off. I would venture a guess that many religious myths are just (Jungian cultural) archetypes dressed up in a manner consistent with whatever culture within which they arise. I imagine that Joseph Campbell wrote about such issues, finding universal mythological elements expressed in various forms within particular cultures.

[@Weaseldog2001]

i don;t agree with JMG that civilization has been here before. Never before have we done so much damage to the entire planet at once. Never before has our population reached such unsustainable levels. Never before have we covered the globe with nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons. This time is different, and not in a good way.

[@qboxer]

Wicked! Will do. Thanks man. :)

[@edyersh]

So back bone growing is what is called for. Sounds to me like a time for intensive memetic engineering.

[@ornebatmagoo7128]

Terry Gross is a great female interviewer, who knows how to interject personal insights without interrupting. Bill Moyers is a male interviewer who is highly skilled at redirecting the guest. This is not a gender issue. You are confusing things: it is not systematically chauvinistic to point out that one should not interrupt a guest (particularly an eloquent one) because it is distracting to the viewer - you are free to hunker down into a gender-attack defense or take a criticism constructively.

[@Weaseldog2001]

I understand you now. I thought you were making a counter argument. Easter Island is a good example of what we face.

[@valhala56]

On the MSM I have heard about Obama's "New New Deal" All the talk has been on rebuilding infrastructure ie roads, bridges to the tune of $1 trillion dollars. Nowhere on the MSM have I heard them talk about changes that need to be made to accomodate available lower energy. I have heard nothing about farms, gardening, food production, distrubation. It is disturbing to see MSM totaly miss this coming situation, not to mention the Obama govement has not broached this discussion. Unbelievable.

[@Weaseldog2001]

I agree, alcohol works, but to what purpose? What need does it solve? It has lower embodied energy than oil. It takes more energy to produce than oil does. It cannot ever be made in the same quantities that we pump oil in. When we really run low on oil, you probably won't have any need to travel anywhere that you can't get to on foot. As to the generator, mankind survived a long time without electricity. It's not that important when it comes to basic survival.

[@scarmenl]

Take it anyway you like! Me I hope that you are the one who is more right. I just have been around a little too much and seen the garbage that is being dumped on people. So with any luck you will the one who proves right. In the mean time when I get my law suit settled my intention is to begin another business and build things like the Larson Radax Engine. That I believe will help. I also plan to grow hemp to produce bio diesel, fuel alcohol and use the rest of the plant to make other things

[@marchbabymimi]

We need to scrap the "class mentality" in America concerning higher education. In a localized economy we'll be valuing all of our citizens' gifts and skills. One example is the horrible way we treat our farmers - they are belittled and mocked and yet our very survival depends upon them. I doubt that the US will be able to keep pouring money into universities and colleges, while our students incur huge amounts of personal debt. There must be a better way.

[@empyreanbeing]

Check out Scarlet Imprint and their new printing of Greer's newest book... 'Blood of the Earth'; I am loving it so far.

[@scarmenl]

Perhaps you should read my entire post. The myth is, again, in the FACT that there are very large oil fields out there that have never been tapped. Also in Russia they are doing very deep drilling and finding a great deal more yet again. BUT remember it will still be much better to find other approaches then oil, the number of problems from using it are legion and we would be much better off using as little as possible!

[@redcoltken]

Its been 10 years and the political reality seems to reflect the basic theme of this discussion

[@redcoltken]

11:00 min

[@tuckerbugeater]

@@redcoltken hahaha

[@edyersh]

I do hold out some hope for all those free energy technologies that have been sequestered away in secret black projects. But only something like a revolution would lead to the technology reaching the common man.

[@Weaseldog2001]

When will you be ready to publically demo your cold fusion generator?

[@AudibleAura]

me hugery... me eat... its great how everyone likes to sit around at talk about what is wrong and how to fix it, but nothing ever gets done... sounds so Greek, right before they fell from grace =)>

[@Oksendal5]

Is that a combover?

[@scarmenl]

I get that there will be change. What we don't have to do, for a change, is slip back in the mud hut and grubbing by hand in the dirt.

[@Weaseldog2001]

If you're right and there are unknown super giant fields that no one knows about, then that's great news. Stuff will soon get better. If you're wrong, then the downside to pretending that the unknowns that don't exist do exist, is disaster. It's not wise to perpetually live your live as if you're going to win the lottery tomorrow.

[@johnmiller7453]

OMG I'm moving out of SoOR. as soon as possible. I can't take this shit.

[@Burtonimus]

Another comment sorry.... With the resources we do have... like people.... you should invest in your education and find that the choices of presidents we have had over the last 20yrs have not been that good.... I find it funny but the one thing people are not tackling is education.... not reform but make the common us citizen competitive in today's market... unlike 30 or 40 years ago where you could not finish H.S. and start work and make 15-30 bucks an hour.... no more. That is the educated man

[@peakmoment]

Yes, and America's huge oil and coal deposits placed it at the top of the world pyramid during and following World War II. Wealth and power seems to go along with those natural resources, which is why the torch of power is moving towards the Middle east and China. The American Empire is fully in decline. (Check out PM 72 about the film "What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire."

[@debbiemetke5938]

please record in a quieter place next time?

[@captainfatfoot2176]

Comments this on a 13 year old video. Brilliant.

[@magua73]

To scarmenl. Oil is a non-renewable energy source, that means is it finite, that means that for every day it goes there is less oil in world, and peak oil is an inevitable consequences of it. Where is the "myth" in this? I fail to see. Peak oil is real, and we are only left with the how and when it will happen.

[@jonathanb921]

I agree with your last statement, but other civilizations have depleted their resource base and then had nowhere else to go too. Easter Island comes to mind - can things get much worse than cannibalism? It's just a difference in scale and technology. That doesn't mean that I believe we'll get through this with anything that remotely resembles modern civilization.

[@valhala56]

scarmeni, if you want to call data collected by the IEA a "Myth", if you want to call putting Oil derricks in the North Atlantic a cheap easy way to get oil, If you want to call $4 a gallon gas we had in June 07 a myth. If you want to call the energy crisis in the Seventies a myth. I will say this denial has it's plus's. You aren't worried and happy as a lark until you go over the cliff.

[@valhala56]

scarmenl, I didn't ask about personal information on you, I was asking about what Oil fields, what specific people are witholding oil. I'm not going to argue with you about conspiracy groups, just think about this, if what you say is true, the Trilateral commision etc, have to get food,medicine, transportation, civil order etc. So how would wrecking the society they live in themselves benefit them? Like many conspiracy types you misinterpet facts & come to flawed conclusions.

[@scarmenl]

ALASKA not Anwar. I can assure you that the US government you see ain't the people running this show. If you don't believe me that's fine. But having worked in these areas when I was younger I can assure you that the oil is there and that it is not going to be used for any reason that is going to benifit you and I.

[@tonylee1973]

Soler power people. We can do this!!

[@scarmenl]

Think whatever you like. It's a free country, at least for now.

[@scarmenl]

The Myth is in the part where they tell us that all of the existing wells are producing less and less oil. There are between two and for major fields that are sitting there that it is figured are larger than all of the Arab oil taken to date and then some. We have probably, even allowing for a steady increase in demand, enough know oil finds to last the next one thousand years. I still think, as I said, that something besides oil would be much better. Oil is nasty in the extream!

[@ThineLesser]

6:47 🙅‍♀️🙅‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️😂😂

[@ThineLesser]

why does this come up when you search "I F****** LOVE SCIENCE!"

[@scarmenl]

You have your view and I have mine. If you don't agree fine. I think that your views are the ones that are flawed and lost.

[@AlienTube47]

One possible solution - zero point energy. Dr Steven Greer has much to say about this saving grace.

[@edyersh]

Do you know of any effective ways of stopping the demon bastards? This is the mother of all sub-problems.

[@jonathanb921]

no, we haven't, but other civilizations have.

[@AudibleAura]

me hungery... me eat...

[@BB-bd4ku]

Good thing he won't stop talking, this woman interrupts him a lot

[@jimicunningable]

This is incorrect. The environment is collapsing like the end of a Jenga game. ONLY our inability to see things on the scope of nature and our egos prevent us from seeing this obvious truth.

[@valhala56]

It is not known how much oil is an Anwar. What can you refernce that states there is huge amounts of oil in Anwar, You must be talking about the Alberta Oil sands since you are not specific in what particular oil fields you are talking about. Try to common sense, the global economy is crashing the US is going under, so you think that the US goverment is just going to ignore vital economic resources sitting in the earth just off the US coast?

[@geot4647]

Unnecessary engine idling is said to waste over 100k barrels of oil each day in America alone. You see all these people totally detached from what they're burning. And oil has a lot more utility than just powering cars and trucks. It is a type of squandering that society will seriously regret. Postscript: Why grow a beard THAT scraggly? He doesn't need it to sound wise, and it gives a crackpot impression to folks who don't grasp the issues.

[@first001]

Well this turned out to be bogus lol

[@peakmoment]

How so? I think we're in the midst of the collapse of the American Empire, and the pandemic is also aiding collapse of other systems.

[@ia8018]

The long descent is happening. Slowly but sure.

[@valhala56]

scarmenl you are not makeing any sense, the Big three automakers are on the verge of bankruptcy, You don't think that they wouldn't use ANY TECHNOLOGY THAT WOULD HELP THEM AND 3 MILLION US TAX PAYING WORKERS SURVIVE? Why the fuck would they ignore a technology that could save the US economy? Use some common sense man, think about what you would do, & your saying the gov is ignoring Oil revenues for what purpose? so they can go broke faster? Your logic is flawed.

[@docrw]

He talks to much. To much of a monologue

[@glouconx983]

So he dealt with the predicament by moving to an apt. in Providence RI and writing Cthulhu monster novels that nobody reads. Great plan!

[@Roseshirazie]

Shit, that beard gotta go. The dude is in his late 40's trying to look 70 yrs old.