The Twitch & YouTube War Explained

TWO trillion dollar companies (Amazon & Google) are going head to head over the most important people in the world™: streamers. Who will emerge victorious?
find out more on my exclusive MySpace stream next week
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Edited by QuacK | / quack_001
FULL VOD: • How KZbin Won the St...
Outro Song: • 【8bit cover】Soda City ...
0:00 Ludwig to youtube
1:10 Otto
1:38 Facebook Gaming
2:13 The beginning of the war
2:32 The moneybags era
3:15 The poorhouse years
4:22 KZbin discovers something
4:44 Where we are now
6:03 The next era
6:32 "lastlaxer10" would switch over for poki
6:37 The nukes of streaming
7:01 Twitch Prime - Twitch
7:19 Better tech - KZbin
7:30 Netflix example
8:24 More people - KZbin
9:09 Drops - Twitch
9:30 Culture - Twitch
10:03 VODs - KZbin
10:28 Why this war is so important
11:05 The wise Mizkif blesses us with his thoughts
12:29 Outro - Soda City Funk 8bit
#atrioc #MarketingMonday #livestreaming

[@monday1554]

the real winner is mixer for getting big A himself to be their only streamer

[@Subpar1224]

If mixer was a thing and Atrioc did move over I would genuinely download mixer just to watch him

[@miguelquirino8166]

@@Subpar1224 your joking right

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

@@Subpar1224 Now THAT'S a Mogul Move.

[@goldenlazo4872]

Oh sheet true true

[@TheFedoraNinja]

The real winner is twitch for getting big A himself to be their only twitch subscriber

[@bezx2]

Quack splicing in his own Valorant highlights is the biggest marketing move in any Big A video

[@vilmer1262]

A mogul move, one might say

[@para6742]

that had me laughing my ass off

[@erikmatthews9740]

Huge pickup by KZbin. Hopefully Ludwig doesn't get banned on his 3rd day.

[@braiden7524]

He did

[@lval7778]

@@braiden7524 thank for the helpful comment

[@sonohead2859]

@@braiden7524 so Kong king for the insightful comment

[@tennenyt5311]

That wouldn't happen, KZbin's Copyright Id system is better so he wouldn't just get outright banned

[@glh7728]

@@braiden7524 thank you for your scholarly inference.

[@SoyKlNG]

In a serious note, Miz is probably the only other "bridge of livestreaming" like Lud. If he goes to KZbin and brings a few OTK friends, I think its another nuke in it of itself

[@akaherb8815]

youtube needs to bag connoreatspants. Im only half joking, hes relatively small but hes literally friends with every streamer. Like he might truly be the most connected streamer

[@abhinavcheedella4296]

@@akaherb8815 also he’s known to be just liked in general. Not doing bits like miz where some people might not get it, but like he’s just raw talent

[@BagelsandJewce]

If Miz and Ludwig are both on youtube Twitch just lost all it's children. That's like the future of Twitch viewership in just those two.

[@tormenta4life]

@@BagelsandJewce you forget about tommyinnit his following is huge and majority kids

[@iamgoo]

@@tormenta4life nah. We leave the kids on twitch. And we all swap to KZbin. This a Mogul Move bois

[@Oysteriod]

incredible timing with this and ludwigs stream going down

[@Ps.Hi78]

Ikr lol and after only a few days of being on KZbin his streams is taken down

[@triciaf61]

i was there, and now im here too

[@northover6015]

Why’d it get taken down. I was an hour behind on the livestream

[@nickpineau4139]

@@northover6015 said he violated policy, probably for watching yt vids.

[@Subpar1224]

@@nickpineau4139 wait so he can't react Andy to KZbin videos anymore?

[@pyronix]

Hey Atrioc, agree w/ your assessment except on one thing - Facebook Gaming is extremely big in some non-US countries (like my country for example) to the extent that almost all streaming type of creators are on FB gaming instead of another platform, so I think those numbers in 4:50 are accurate

[@tcmax7837]

Yeah hard agree on this, anyone that thinks FB gaming numbers are bogus have not even had a surface level look at SEA communities

[@atrioc]

FB numbers are consistently bogus ! but I am well aware that FB Gaming has been dominating in certain countries. YTG with FreeFire some South American communities as well.

[@adrianbaev5277]

@@atrioc The LYING Facebook is making big FAKE NEWS with their numbers. They are BIG in other countries, but they're sending fake numbers, they're sending bots, AND SOME I ASSUME are real views. Sad!

[@adrianbaev5277]

@Daffy Tbh this is a consistent issue with comparing statistics of anything. Facebook is not technically lying, but their standard of what a view is so inflated that it is only comparable to itself. Therefore the best knowledge you can gather from it is it's growth. If you compare a lot of statistics between countries too though you get the same issue. A recent example would be COVID death rates between countries. Different countries have different requirements for listing a COVID death. They're not technically 'wrong' for doing so, but it means that doing comparisons on how different countries are dealing with it very difficult. Because, in both scenarios the numbers are actually tracking two different definitions, even though the output feels like it should be comparable, it isn't.

[@crade9126]

@@adrianbaev5277 nice one

[@buzzkill7542]

"It makes it so much more possible, and safe to give it a try." - Atrioc Video also goes out minutes after Ludwig gets suspended

[@PuroOsso753]

He got suspended? Lol

[@GuiTheKratos]

@@PuroOsso753 baby shark rules boi

[@dinospumoni5611]

Did he actually get suspended? From KZbin? Why?

[@Jarvalicious]

@@dinospumoni5611 baby shark, do do

[@cchambs2]

@@dinospumoni5611 He played baby shark on stream for a couple seconds but didn't know the shark rules with an iron fist and the suspended his stream. Not a ban tho he will be back on Saturday with a comeback stream to rival Big A.

[@bloodwolf2609]

The problem is that Twitch got bought by Amazon, and the amount of money Twitch brings into the Amazon sphere is not worth investing anything into to improve it. Obviously there's people at Twitch that care about their platform but in the grand scheme of things, KZbin is a significant part of Google, whereas Twitch is not a significant part of Amazon.

[@joelgrumme9754]

True but if they are able to monopolize streaming by beating KZbin then there is more money to be made in the first place, plus if they lose the war twitch becomes dead weight to the company and will incur heavy losses and Amazon most likely doesn’t want that.

[@HappyBeeGaming]

If this logic held, then KZbin wouldn't have invested in livestreaming because it's so small compared to their non-live videos. The relative size of a business isn't relevant into whether or not resources will be put into it. Otherwise Amazon/Google/Facebook etc. would never make any innovative products because at the time of creation (before there is any market/audience) they would be "too small to be worth investing in" compared to the main revenue streams. The fact that these companies do make new products and services demonstrates that this isn't how executives are thinking.

[@darculas2625]

@@HappyBeeGaming the difference is KZbin wants live-streaming to play a bigger role, Amazon could care less. If Amazon cared they would’ve gave more money to get Ludwig a bigger deal for twitch, but they didn’t. And they are actually pretty consistent in offering less money than KZbin so far, if amazon was fully on board with twitch streaming KZbin would never outbid them for their creators.

[@NickDaDroid]

The irony of Lud getting his stream taken down minutes after this uploaded lol.

[@kliffi96]

One of the KZbin nukes Big A missed is that most twitch streamers have KZbin channels anyways. They already got a foot in the door with most streamers. They have subscribers that will be notified when they go live and people who are not subscribed will still get the streams recommended if they watched some videos including that streamer. That means streamers can already build on some kind of infrastructure they already built. Especially compared to the mixer situation this is a very significant difference. It also means that if streaming becomes bigger and youtubers decide to Livestream KZbin will be a their place to start because it will give them an easy headstart and those people will bring the community insiders that could become the KZbin emotes. Also KZbin has an existing community that exceeds gaming while twitch is still pretty much stuck gaming even if non- gaming is growing on twitch. It will be hard to escape that mental link in most people's head. With KZbin having a very solid normie/non-gaming community in terms of viewers and creators they will have an easy time with conquering the non-gaming market if livestreaming continues to grow. Especially once more youtubers will hop on the train of livestreaming which would be the dream scenario for KZbin. Once the ball starts rolling KZbin will become an unstoppable force. The only thing missing right now is a pure livestreaming section on KZbin which increases discoverability for creators and especially viewers that mainly focus on streaming. As a viewer right now you don't have the possibility to easily find new streamers to watch. The connectivity between communities is just way weaker than on twitch with all their features to direct viewers from one streamer to another. Examples of that would be raids, autohosts, recommended streams always being visible etc. My conclusion and prediction on the whole topic is that overall KZbin has some problems with their infrastructure right now that should be fixable. And once they do fix it they will slowly start to grow even if they don't put much money into buying creators. But buying those creators will give them legimitacy and will accelerate the process. If they stick to it, put the effort into it I talked about and don't hold themselves back by being a slowmoving moneygiant they will 100% become a major player in livestreaming.

[@nayanbhatia5192]

Hats off to QuacK for the editing recently. Big A’s videos have gone up in quality ten-fold in the last few days

[@alexmeeks42]

i think quack just wanted to show off his valorant highlights

[@MadgeNC]

quack kinda cracked

[@jesuisfudgeman874]

remember two days ago when lud said to his guy at KZbin, "you guys wouldn't ban me on the first day though" he was right. they would ban him on the third though OMEGALUL

[@sadsworth4605]

The stream got cancelled and that too by FUCKINT baby shark god I hate them anyway he can resume streaming

[@Zanthulol]

No one ever talks about Vtubers on these discussions. Hololive/Nijisanji blew the F up during covid and they all put up numbers that can compete with the big dogs on twitch. Solo streamers hitting 50k on average. Big collabs hitting 100k+. KZbin has a niche with Vtubers that twitch doesnt offer as much with just Vshojo.

[@kongzilla2903]

Fucking facts. I don’t think anyone pays attention to the superchat billboards. Those numbers are actually insane.

[@madsiesss]

ye but theyre vtubers

[@apancakewithabs632]

@@madsiesss so?

[@boost3188]

@@apancakewithabs632 they. are. vtubers.

[@mattnic001]

Vtubers will not be taken seriously by other creators for a long time

[@kid-presentable]

Ludwig got banned immediately after this was uploaded. The first casualty of the war

[@NewChiqueChloe]

What did he do? I don't follow Ludwig, but it feels like he'd have to do something really incredibly stupid to get banned by youtube this quickly

[@Cgaffman]

How?

[@GuiTheKratos]

@@NewChiqueChloe baby shark

[@kid-presentable]

@@GuiTheKratos do do do do

[@kid-presentable]

@@NewChiqueChloe he played a couple seconds of baby shark on stream which is dmca, and dmca strikes on a youtube live stream shuts it off immediately. He wasn't really banned, just suspended from continuing that stream

[@Metroyeti17]

It doesn’t help KZbin when they ban Ludwig on his third day of streaming lmao

[@mb-ss7be]

“i don’t think DMCA is going to be a factor” -atrioc, 2021

[@hegthebrave9424]

You should also mention the skippable ads KZbin, if KZbin fixes their algorithm and promotes streamers, those skippable ads will benefit a lot the discoverability for new streamers, I can’t count how many small streamers lost my attention just because of an ad that made me click out immediately, I’m sure a bunch of other viewers did that too

[@vie9962]

Its crazy that even youtubers that live in Japan are friends with Ludwig, he's literally mr worldwide.

[@boomerzilean]

QT makes it easy

[@iamme8290]

who? I haven't seen Ludwig regularly talk to any of the big guys living in Japan. Aka Trash Taste squad and V-tubers. They have maybe spoken once or twice because of the botez sisters or something. But I think that is it.

[@iamme8290]

@@Guz0510 He hasn't really done all that much with Connor. It is botez events. But didn't know he talked to Chris on Twitter. But I really don't Twitter all that much either. So yeah

[@crows1lver30]

@@iamme8290 I think he's in at least one of the anime man's videos

[@Madderthanjoker]

I guarantee you the next big streamer that's gonna beat everyone else is probably somebody who hasn't even started streaming yet. Someone's gonna pop off in a way we haven't seen before and it's gonna be nuts when they do.

[@thebuzz567]

It'll be someone that can catch the womens demo. Right now streaming is a good chunk of male viewers. I think Atroic kinda touched on breaking into "normie culture" but I think that'll be catching women viewers who are of the right age group. The conversation about streaming is very heavily male focused and there are a LOT of women who would be intrested if they had the right draw. I used to work at a manga/anime merch shop for like 3 years, and I'm not kidding when I say 90% of our customer base were women, yet if you look online the demographics are very men focused. There are a lot of women who are on the very outskirts of "nerd culture" who just need one push to snowball the demos. I know this was a long comment, but watch this space. This time 2023 there'll be a new name in streaming and they'll have a HUGE women demo, and they'll do insane numbers. (Also, side prediction, this streamer will be universally shit on by oldheads, this happens everytime there is a huge boon in womens media, for example Bieber and Twilight were both massivly mocked by early internet users and they were the two dominated forces in womens entertainment)

[@scy2324]

@@thebuzz567 is this not dream already

[@thebuzz567]

@@scy2324 he's kinda like a test run. Him and Critical Roll have a huge women's base that is an anomaly and not the norm. The trick is gonna be 1) someone who can do variety which Dream and CR can't do, and 2) have the ability to work with other streams. Right now Dreams and CRs fanbases don't touch anything other than their own specific niches. The goal of twitch and YTG will be to tap into the market as a whole on the platforms. Imagine if Lud had a huge women's base, that would spread to others in his vortex

[@christianrosas8917]

You guys are on the right track but not quite. The next big streamer will blow records out of the water because it will be some kind of celebrity. A normie celebrity. Like a Tik Tok star or someone with millions and millions of cult followers. That is when streaming will really explode. When they break records it will make XQc and Ludwig look like peanuts. I promise you right now that's when streaming platforms will notice the waves big names can have and things will change.

[@karludwig8722]

@@christianrosas8917 no I think the next big streamer will be the ninja of the next fortnite, like a new game that will completely blow up and becoming even more relevant to mainstream culture. Remember how insane twitch numbers got in the early days of fortnite? Game hypes like that don't happen every year. Before Fortnite it was Minecraft and before that maybe CoD or WoW

[@monday1554]

damn it was worth waiting for the youtube vid quacks editing is off the charts

[@abe0341]

The double tap to rewind on youtube livestream is goated

[@alexanderrose1071]

I feel like Big A is missing out on the idea that b/c KZbin is that much larger than twitch, and their reach is much further, they have access to opportunities for their creators that twitch simply does not. Google cares more about KZbin than Amazon does about Twitch. Google will support their creators not only financially, but with connections and access as well. Twitch does not have the ability to equally compete.

[@userzero6555]

Pretty it's gonna be Mixer since Big A is moving to it!

[@anangrycrocodile3318]

I saw quack popping off with the Valorant clip at 9:20 , is he the next big shroud?

[@danbowker5737]

I love that QuacK got to drop his Valorant montage in the middle there

[@bloodwolf2609]

Honestly, I unironically believe Otto could just make a new streaming platform like Atrioc said

[@Aspecticor]

lmao quack found a way to put his val clips in this vid 9:25 , seriously tho, amazing Marketing Monday and unreal editing!

[@sunphoric1]

Quack casually dropping a valorant fragmovie halfway through

[@crouton2918]

That was super good editing! Great job on this one.

[@finnsaunders4789]

Idk what I was expecting, but that Mizkif bit at the end just got me rolling

[@gaberoy94]

Wow that parallel about from Netflix and HBO compared to KZbin and Twitch was an amazing example. Keep up the amazing content brother!

[@Cosm1cCream]

The thumbnail is golden bro, it's like each other alternet universe self.

[@Texanscout426]

9:18 Quack sneaking his valorant clips in

[@connormcreynolds825]

Really enjoyed the editing on this! Go quack’

[@adrianbaev5277]

How powerful do you guys think a KZbin Premium Sub (Prime equivalent) would be. KZbin Premium is pretty nice with no ads and music etc, but it's only confined to KZbin. I feel like Google needs to offer some sort of "Alphabet-soup" subscription that ties in a bunch of their products like Prime. Something like unlimited Photo storage with Drive, the Play Pass and KZbin Premium. The thing is, they'll never reach the mass adoption of Prime because of the delivery advantage it gives you, BUT because KZbin is such a bigger platform than Twitch, they can deal with a lower adoption rate as long as the total ends up above Twitch's Prime usage. One more note, while KZbin doesn't have the same kind of community as Twitch does with top influencers, I feel that due to KZbin's rec algorithm, it allows for a much larger amount of reasonably successful more niche livestreamers to succeed that could not exist on Twitch. Lud is also really good at creating professionally created shows. If KZbin will actively support creations like the Smash event, I can imagine a large chunk of that community moving over.

[@Guilhermearms]

7:06 Atrioc made a big prediction right here

[@nathanspeiser]

I think one major advantage KZbin has that people overlook is this; the only way you can build a following on twitch is by streaming, you can build subs and a fan base via videos and those subs will also likely tune into your stream. Essentially your content can directly work for you while you aren't live. I think this is going to play a big roll in how brands and even viewers want to intake their fav streamers content

[@evansolano6593]

Atrioc, your getting me through my depressed freshman in college faze. Thank you

[@_Michael__.]

gotta love it when you see that quack has edited

[@klop552]

Recently started writing copy for businesses and that Facebook tweet was painful. I can only imagine how it must look to a marketing vet like big A.

[@1231crazymonkey]

the editing on this vid goes crazy

[@Jarvalicious]

Time stamps in the description are glorious

[@silentducky8598]

Yo QuacK dont think we didnt see you go off in those valo clips

[@iurigrang]

Something else to consider is that switching to KZbin doesn't feel like switching the same way switching to mixer or Facebook feels. Most people who watch twitch already use KZbin on a daily basis for pre recorded content. They don't have to create a new account on mixer or start using Facebook all of the sudden. KZbin has such a leg up over the other twitch competitors.

[@MrsAqvis]

Watching this almost year later is very, very funny ngl

[@rhysticbuddy61]

For youtube, you mentioned vods and audience, but the thing that makes both of these valuable is the algorithm that guides them, youtube has trained viewers to use recommendations, which means if youtube wants streaming to be big, it will be. Not just that, but also their live ads algorithm, a lot of youtubers make hella $$ off ads, so if livestreaming also gets huge ad support, it might be able to nullify twitch primes

[@CarlosMartinez-wi3pd]

I see QuacK sneaking in their own val clips

[@Markone99]

New sub here, man Idk why I never checked your content out... You're very attentive to jobs and marketing, I've learned tons from you in these past days! I loved the Catrio feud, and the Hitman series too! Great content, I love your humour too, old man!

[@abhinavcheedella4296]

9:18 Damn Quack is popping off plugging his content

[@chilly254]

"yeah chat is you, you are the nuclear bomb" sounded so endearing

[@BotBrendan]

QuacK's val clips were pretty clean

[@chrisbehrens400]

Editor GOATED with these chapters

[@AldricJoya]

gotta love the quakvalo montage

[@pattysalazar6823]

Honestly yt probably should hire someone like atrioc, he is great selling to boomers and zoomers

[@askplays]

truuuue

[@jamie2563]

Nice Val clips QuacK you were shooting

[@sonohead2859]

9:18 nice valorant clips Quack 👍

[@jrdnanitsua]

This felt like a marketing Monday and I'm not disappointed, Yes Atrioc!

[@iiballisticpanda]

9:19 yo quack nice val clips

[@devshankarnair6344]

wait he kind of called kick at 8:50.

[@narhwallord6985]

Dude really out here predicting Kick. It's easier to stream on there cause you don't have to worry nearly as much, it has like 90/10 split, and it's buying up people that are at their peak popularity who have or could collab

[@azdirtnaper]

right when atrioc said valorant quakc said "its my time to shine" put all of his clips in 🤣🤣

[@AeynYT]

7 months later, Big A is proving to be a prophet. KZbin is making plays and Twitch seems to be too comfortable.

[@whipsinthecar]

This is an incredible video, I honestly love watching these business oriented videos you post, and you’re actually entertaining. I am at 7:54 and haven’t skipped a thing. GOOD SHIT BIG A

[@bacjam6139]

A streaming platform that recommends smaller streamers would be nice. It seems so difficult to get growth on twitch/youtube live streams without doing collabs.

[@neverstoppedme]

This is absolutely a quality analysis, but I love that a video about Ludwig's significance for the future of streaming was filmed literally in Ludwig's streaming room.

[@rodrigopena7517]

Great video,I recommend continuing adding poki doki and mizzy wizzy on ur vids

[@zacharygoodman2384]

Watched the vod but this editing is so pog I gotta watch the KZbin as well

[@tsuleaf102]

great editing by quack

[@Airfire21]

I'm normally pretty quiet on the comments, but this is a fantastic video. Seriously really great. I agree with everything you said too. Great information, really incorporates all highlights of streaming and the streaming wars - without the 40 minute length, and with some comedy. Good stuff Atrioc and QuacK!

[@NamuIsIdle]

Its crazy looking back at this... Miz did predict correctly, even tho Atrioc waved it off then... now Big A gets like 5k almost every stream, definitely a growth from the 1.2k then... for a period of like 5 months, thats incredible growth!

[@AmanRao_]

nice frags quack

[@LilMunchlax]

Would love an update on this with all the recent users switching platforms Are the recent moves directly because of Ludwig?

[@bigradars2011]

Quack with his valorant clips. What a legend.

[@nsquezada27]

youtube needs its own livestream page for users as well to discover and watch other live streamers

[@cooperrhodes4490]

Attioc finally found the celeste soundtrack lesgo

[@xFrostCross]

MY BIGGEST THING IS WHERE DO I FIND THE STREAMS ? ITS I HAD TO LOOK IT UP IN ORDER TO FIND THEM! NEED TO MAKE IT MORE VISUALLY ACCESSIBLE!

[@marinenukem]

OTV's already got a pretty big KZbin scene, I could totally see them moving to KZbin and it working out really well for both them and KZbin.

[@finchinator990]

This Ludwig guy sounds pretty cool. Can't wait to watch his next livestream!

[@flamebane]

Quack sneaking in his valorant clips

[@finnvanderzwan2220]

Twitter needs to hire otto and make a dope streaming service, thats a large clientele of Norman's

[@takanuva6167]

Honestly if Lud and Otto can get the extension in a good spot and emulate the twitch culture here on KZbin, the war is kinda over at that point. Things like prime and drops are just a matter of programing and investing, but cracking the culture is a whole other problem that I don't think KZbin would have solved on its own.

[@crazyprecious1969]

Love to hear the Celeste music as soon as I boot up a Atrioc video

[@gabrielcollin8276]

Aint no way. At 0:13, 2 separate people in chat, one right after the other, both mispelled ludwig7 with ludwif7. The odds on that

[@harshthesharma]

you gotta love the quack valorant clips

[@vidswithliam4243]

The celeste music made me really want a bros vs pros where Atrioc stanz and Ludwig have to do any percent before a pro does 100 percent

[@ronweesly790]

what song is that specifically im tryna find it but i cant

[@tealkine]

@@ronweesly790 kzbin.info/www/bejne/moWslpSng72mm7s

[@thrashish]

I threw my hat in with the Google boys a few months ago. Don't be evil vs. Dr. Evil? No Brainer.

[@superazula3722]

I swear this man can't stop making fire content

[@gambitg]

Quack really gonna put his own valorant pop off clips ok

[@bongo2569]

Great video Big A. I watched most of it.

[@RecardoGuillermo]

@@Jake-qs9uh lol

[@burg4286]

Just came across this video after Sykunno’s “Last stream” the other day and honestly, incredibly interesting. KZbin possibly going for another creator that is widely loved by other creators? Big A was onto somethin

[@robert-zr1kx]

You made a good point re:a third party coming out and beating them both. Look at Snapchat and Instagram, bickering with each other over stories and short-form-videos, and then TikTok just blasts them out of the water

[@captcha_phrase673]

Good edit QuacK

[@marinenukem]

Send this video to Twitch and KZbin CEO's and watch the fireworks

[@greencrusader6488]

Both Miz and SmallAnt predict that Big A is going to blow up now. I wanna see our boy do well, but I like the community as it is rn

[@crystallinepunk3164]

Can't believe the NFT guys got Ludwig

[@Jimbo_Karate]

Poggies that’s me at 9:55

[@xX-DogSama-Xx]

KZbin premium / red / whatever its called now could include a free membership to a channel with every month, its probably not as widespread a subscription service as amazon prime is, but i think youtube is big enough to convince people to get it if it means regularly being able to support creators you love

[@TyCranium]

What was that song in the beginning??? It sounds super sick and would like to know :)

[@masterpig5s]

Time for a group of students to make a new live streaming platform. That or I might actually restart my audio based social media projects with live stuff too.

[@masterpig5s]

Live and VOD stuff. If you’ve ever seen some students work, you know that it could happen.